transreflective screen
Hi, are there any chances to have a transreflective screen, instead of a normal LCD screen, in the next hardware release? I think that's a priority to develop a fully-usable device... Many thanks B.P. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Colour Discussions...
mcb, inc. wrote: On Wed, 22 Aug 2007, Franco Austin wrote: Therefore these colours mentioned above feel all machinist and not a bit of warmth in them I think we've hit a turning point now drawing artists and poets to the project... :-) I'd like to suggest a nice simple theming alternative. Include rose-tinted spectacles in the box. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: WiFi vs. speaker
I don't know about you guys, but personally I'd rather have the electromagnetic radiation traveling under my chin, then through my brain, but maybe brain cancer doesn't scare you as much. On 8/24/07, Eric Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Giles Jones wrote: GSM antenna is at bottom of phone, should be at top of phone. I thought the idea of having the antenna at the bottom was so that the signal isn't attenuated by your head so much during a call. [At least someone told me that was a good thing on the RAZRs and it sounded convincing] Eric ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Colour Discussions...
You know what? You really *are* at a turning point when it happens! LOL! Seriously! It is of no small interest to me that each project tends to attract such diverse interests, skills and aptitudes. Truly remarkable results occur when everyone is encouraged and empowered to contribute what they have to give. All the best to you as you work together to advance this important project! Amy :) On 8/23/07, mcb, inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, 22 Aug 2007, Franco Austin wrote: Therefore these colours mentioned above feel all machinist and not a bit of warmth in them I think we've hit a turning point now drawing artists and poets to the project... :-) -- Monty Brandenberg ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://OpenSourceCommunity.org ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: WiFi vs. speaker
On Friday 24 August 2007 15:18, Tim Shannon wrote: I don't know about you guys, but personally I'd rather have the electromagnetic radiation traveling under my chin, then through my brain, but maybe brain cancer doesn't scare you as much. Braincancer may scare me, high frequency radio waves do not. AVee ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: WiFi vs. speaker
It was actually a joke. If cell frequencies caused cancer, everyone would be dead by now, because there are a lot worse stuff floating in the air. On 8/24/07, AVee [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Friday 24 August 2007 15:18, Tim Shannon wrote: I don't know about you guys, but personally I'd rather have the electromagnetic radiation traveling under my chin, then through my brain, but maybe brain cancer doesn't scare you as much. Braincancer may scare me, high frequency radio waves do not. AVee ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: transreflective screen
I'd gladly pay an extra $100 for this, if it could be made available as an option. On 8/24/07, Bernardo Pellegrini [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, are there any chances to have a transreflective screen, instead of a normal LCD screen, in the next hardware release? I think that's a priority to develop a fully-usable device... Many thanks B.P. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
OM 2007.2 on mot a1200
Hi, With help from openezx and some new patches and patience from A. Zhang, i was able to get a Mot a1200 to boot to OM 2007.2, well almost, and now i have some questions: - first what is the best om list for this work? i wasn't sure if its a distro question or what so for now i thought i'd try the community list - what is the best way to handle submit patches that are machine specific? to get Xfbdev to work for the 18bpp a1200 i needed to include a patch that i grabbed from the mkezx project for xorg-server/kdriver-server - now X will start with a screen spec of 240x320x18, but after that i run into other X errors - is there any tutorial for themes? i had heard that om 2007.2 would be better for qvga, but i cannot find any reference to a qvga specific theme for 2007.2. when i've had complete success with a boot before (on mot e680) overall things look good, but it might be nice to adjust some font sizes in certain places and try some different icon sizes out. is there any work planned for a qvga-specific theme for 2007.2? thanks and cheers, Mike ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: 2007.2 compilation failed with package uicmoc4-native-4.0.3
Thanks, but Writchie in #openmoko gave me another fix for Ubuntu 7.04 cd /usr/lib sudo ln -s libXext.so.6 libXext.so sudo ln -s libfreetype.so.6 libfreetype.so Then everything compiled perfectly. rukhsana ansari wrote: Try: sudo apt-get install xlibs-dev and rerun make openmoko-devel-image -Rukhsana Jimmy McMillan wrote: I'm having the same problem. Could you please explain what you did exactly to fix it. Thanks Michael 'Mickey' Lauer wrote: Sorry about that. I'm just fixing uicmoc4 to build against Qt/Embedded, hence removing the dependency on X. Mickey. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: At the risk of being flamed : State of software
On Fri, 2007-08-24 at 16:59 +0200, wim delvaux wrote: HI all, Champion of open source and user of familiar on Ipaq when time was new, i wonder if it was such a good idea to rewrite from scratch an entire GUI system. Knowing that the device is now about 6 months late and looking at the overall stability and completeness of the GUI (List of issues is still long perhaps too long ?) I wonder if it would not have been a better solution to put things like QTopia on the phone. I mean, how long will it still take to get things to this level (http://trolltech.com/products/qtopia/learnmore/screenshots4/?searchterm=screenshots) ? To be honest, I think we are quite close already but you really need to be more specific about what you mean. [...] For me, the free community does not need (really) a new GUI library. It needs a good phone ! Our interest lies in having a nicely featured device available so that we hackers can release our creativity and write apps that users like and not - yet again - re-invent the wheel to start all over again. And for what ? For a theme ? For true GPL ? ... The primary aim of the OpenMoko project and the Neo1973 is to create a software platform and a device that are entirely Free in the spirit of the Free Software movement. See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html for a definition of this. I don't think we need just another phone, we need one that embraces the ideals of the Free Software movement. This way we will be creating something truly unique and valuable. Regards, Thomas -- OpenedHand Ltd. Unit R Homesdale Business Center / 216-218 Homesdale Road / Bromley / BR1 2QZ / UK Tel: +44 (0)20 8819 6559 Expert Open Source For Consumer Devices - http://o-hand.com/ ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: At the risk of being flamed : State of software
They aren't reinventing the wheel, it's GTK. And as far as GPL not being important, I think you miss the point of the entire project. Open source isn't just about free software, it's about a free community. On 8/24/07, wim delvaux [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: HI all, Champion of open source and user of familiar on Ipaq when time was new, i wonder if it was such a good idea to rewrite from scratch an entire GUI system. Knowing that the device is now about 6 months late and looking at the overall stability and completeness of the GUI (List of issues is still long perhaps too long ?) I wonder if it would not have been a better solution to put things like QTopia on the phone. I mean, how long will it still take to get things to this level ( http://trolltech.com/products/qtopia/learnmore/screenshots4/?searchterm=screenshots) ? Perhaps with a different style or something but at least QTopia has been around for quite a few years, sporting a nice portfolio of apps, having a nice ,portable and powerfull GUI library. I know that the software is not fully GPL and FREE but what REALLY is Fully free ? AFAIK you can mess around with qtopia ad lib (hey, look at opie's fork), sources are available, support is great (KDE ...) and for FIC's sake, they can focus there entire resource of a great phone. For me, the free community does not need (really) a new GUI library. It needs a good phone ! Our interest lies in having a nicely featured device available so that we hackers can release our creativity and write apps that users like and not - yet again - re-invent the wheel to start all over again. And for what ? For a theme ? For true GPL ? ... So what about porting QTopia to the NEO as backup scenario ? I.e. how much more delays can we afford ? W ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
At the risk of being flamed : State of software
HI all, Champion of open source and user of familiar on Ipaq when time was new, i wonder if it was such a good idea to rewrite from scratch an entire GUI system. Knowing that the device is now about 6 months late and looking at the overall stability and completeness of the GUI (List of issues is still long perhaps too long ?) I wonder if it would not have been a better solution to put things like QTopia on the phone. I mean, how long will it still take to get things to this level (http://trolltech.com/products/qtopia/learnmore/screenshots4/?searchterm=screenshots) ? Perhaps with a different style or something but at least QTopia has been around for quite a few years, sporting a nice portfolio of apps, having a nice ,portable and powerfull GUI library. I know that the software is not fully GPL and FREE but what REALLY is Fully free ? AFAIK you can mess around with qtopia ad lib (hey, look at opie's fork), sources are available, support is great (KDE ...) and for FIC's sake, they can focus there entire resource of a great phone. For me, the free community does not need (really) a new GUI library. It needs a good phone ! Our interest lies in having a nicely featured device available so that we hackers can release our creativity and write apps that users like and not - yet again - re-invent the wheel to start all over again. And for what ? For a theme ? For true GPL ? ... So what about porting QTopia to the NEO as backup scenario ? I.e. how much more delays can we afford ? W ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: At the risk of being flamed : State of software
On Friday 24 August 2007 17:14:54 Thomas Wood wrote: On Fri, 2007-08-24 at 16:59 +0200, wim delvaux wrote: HI all, Champion of open source and user of familiar on Ipaq when time was new, i wonder if it was such a good idea to rewrite from scratch an entire GUI system. Knowing that the device is now about 6 months late and looking at the overall stability and completeness of the GUI (List of issues is still long perhaps too long ?) I wonder if it would not have been a better solution to put things like QTopia on the phone. I mean, how long will it still take to get things to this level (http://trolltech.com/products/qtopia/learnmore/screenshots4/?searchterm= screenshots) ? To be honest, I think we are quite close already but you really need to be more specific about what you mean. Well I just flashed with the latest 0813 release and beside looking great, there is not much yet that is ready : no bluetooth, no gprs, no contacts, phone working a bit, no mail, suspend resume not OK yet, crashes etc etc. [...] For me, the free community does not need (really) a new GUI library. It needs a good phone ! Our interest lies in having a nicely featured device available so that we hackers can release our creativity and write apps that users like and not - yet again - re-invent the wheel to start all over again. And for what ? For a theme ? For true GPL ? ... The primary aim of the OpenMoko project and the Neo1973 is to create a software platform and a device that are entirely Free in the spirit of the Free Software movement. See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html for a definition of this. I don't think we need just another phone, we need one that embraces the ideals of the Free Software movement. This way we will be creating something truly unique and valuable. But wat IS free ? Personally the 'free' as defined by Trolltech : free for free soft, payed for soft that will be sold, sounds more 'reasonable' then free and you cannot make money out of your application. For me freedom means I have the possibility to do what I want with it providing I do not harm the rights of others. I think the freedom of QTopia (compare it to KDE) is good enough. It gives me lots of freedom and If I make a buck out of what I do with their work I need to pay them a buck too ... CU W ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: At the risk of being flamed : State of software
A free community is ensured by the GPL and other free software licenses. :-) On 8/24/07, Tim Shannon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: They aren't reinventing the wheel, it's GTK. And as far as GPL not being important, I think you miss the point of the entire project. Open source isn't just about free software, it's about a free community. On 8/24/07, wim delvaux [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: HI all, Champion of open source and user of familiar on Ipaq when time was new, i wonder if it was such a good idea to rewrite from scratch an entire GUI system. Knowing that the device is now about 6 months late and looking at the overall stability and completeness of the GUI (List of issues is still long perhaps too long ?) I wonder if it would not have been a better solution to put things like QTopia on the phone. I mean, how long will it still take to get things to this level ( http://trolltech.com/products/qtopia/learnmore/screenshots4/?searchterm=screenshots) ? Perhaps with a different style or something but at least QTopia has been around for quite a few years, sporting a nice portfolio of apps, having a nice ,portable and powerfull GUI library. I know that the software is not fully GPL and FREE but what REALLY is Fully free ? AFAIK you can mess around with qtopia ad lib (hey, look at opie's fork), sources are available, support is great (KDE ...) and for FIC's sake, they can focus there entire resource of a great phone. For me, the free community does not need (really) a new GUI library. It needs a good phone ! Our interest lies in having a nicely featured device available so that we hackers can release our creativity and write apps that users like and not - yet again - re-invent the wheel to start all over again. And for what ? For a theme ? For true GPL ? ... So what about porting QTopia to the NEO as backup scenario ? I.e. how much more delays can we afford ? W ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://OpenSourceCommunity.org ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: At the risk of being flamed : State of software
On Friday 24 August 2007 17:26:28 Tim Shannon wrote: They aren't reinventing the wheel, it's GTK. And as far as GPL not being important, I think you miss the point of the entire project. Open source isn't just about free software, it's about a free community. GTK ? GTK is a graphics library on top of which you desperately need a higher level of abstraction (e.g. WxWidgets). Also GTK AFAIK does not really define a style guide. Look at OpenMoko and look at Gnome or at WxWidgets : same GTK lib but completely different programming model. Also what is a 'free community' ? I think it means that anybody can do what he wants without limitations. Well, guess what, there are ALWAYS limitations perhaps not of the software kind but perhaps on (percieved) stability side ... Comparing with QTopia, if you look at all what has been acchieved with KDE : K3B, Amarok etc etc all great apps using a 'non free' but freely available high quality library... CU W ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: Convince me NOT to cancel my order.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Why can't I get quality, authoritative answers to these questions? Hi Alan. I'm not affiliated with FIC in any way, but I thought I'd give you my viewpoint, for what it's worth. You are probably getting the answers they *can* give. Whether that can is because they don't know, or because the business side of the company is not allowed to, we can't know for certain, but I suspect it's the former. Unless I'm some kind of idiot, why would I want buy a GTA01 phone if the GTA02 was to follow shortly? Because you can get it sooner? Because you want to support the project? As others have said, because you can't fully test code without the real hardware? If you are an end user and not interested in helping with the development, UI design, artwork, and/or testing of the system as it is developed, then you probably do want to wait. Why am I not being given the choice to RIGHT NOW to be placed at the FRONT of the GTA02 sales queue? Probably because they don't want to offer for sale a phone they don't have in production yet? Why am I putting up with all this frustration reading about others who -have- their phones and why should I not just cancel my order?? You are the only one who can answer this question. Yes, it can be frustrating to wait. Even with a mid 2500's order number we waited until the 2nd batch of phones. We've even ordered another expecting to have to wait until sometime in September. You're not dealing with Verizon or ATT... FIC doesn't have a ton of people dedicated to processing consumer orders, nor do they have a stack of phones in a warehouse ready to be shipped out. However, I can tell you that I've seen prototype phones from other, much larger, manufacturers that take every bit as long to make it to market from the stage an early integrator gets to see them. In short, if you value having the hardware as soon as *possible*, keep your order. If you just want a phone with as many features as you can get...wait. Of course, if you wait, then the *next* phone (whatever it is) will be on the horizon...and your question will still be valid...and you can keep waiting...forever. - John ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: At the risk of being flamed : State of software
On Friday 24 August 2007 18:31:47 Carlo E. Prelz wrote: Subject: Re: At the risk of being flamed : State of software Date: ven 24 ago 07 05:53:43 +0200 Quoting wim delvaux ([EMAIL PROTECTED]): GTK ? GTK is a graphics library on top of which you desperately need a higher level of abstraction (e.g. WxWidgets). I used GTK, either directly from C or from its Ruby interface, so many times now, without feeling any specific need for a further level of abstraction. The Ruby interface defines objects for the various GTK classes, but then it has almost a 1-to-1 correspondence between function calls and methods. Flexibility is not negative: it offers more opportunities. have you ever tried using WxWidgets or Qt ? Comparing with QTopia, if you look at all what has been acchieved with KDE : K3B, Amarok etc etc all great apps using a 'non free' but freely available high quality library... I believe you are welcome, even encouraged, to do your own port of Qtopia for the OpenMoko phone, and distribute it. If you do it, and you do a good job, many people who buy their phone could follow appropriate instructions and be able to enjoy a Qtopia interface from day one. Maybe someone might even provide the phones with Qtopia pre-installed (I do not know about licensing though). But OpenMoko developers should have the right to choose the development tools they prefer. It is they who have a lot at stake in this project. The worse that can happen to you or me is that we won't be able to play with a new gizmo. Sean, Mickey, and the rest of the paid OpenMoko team are defining their future, while they put ideas to test. Let them work the way they prefer. Carlo PS I see that the Greenphone is on sale at $695. Any direct experience? Is it possible to have OpenMoko running on the Greenphone? ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: At the risk of being flamed : State of software
On Friday 24 August 2007 18:31:47 Carlo E. Prelz wrote: Subject: Re: At the risk of being flamed : State of software Date: ven 24 ago 07 05:53:43 +0200 Quoting wim delvaux ([EMAIL PROTECTED]): GTK ? GTK is a graphics library on top of which you desperately need a higher level of abstraction (e.g. WxWidgets). I used GTK, either directly from C or from its Ruby interface, so many times now, without feeling any specific need for a further level of abstraction. The Ruby interface defines objects for the various GTK classes, but then it has almost a 1-to-1 correspondence between function calls and methods. Flexibility is not negative: it offers more opportunities. Comparing with QTopia, if you look at all what has been acchieved with KDE : K3B, Amarok etc etc all great apps using a 'non free' but freely available high quality library... I believe you are welcome, even encouraged, to do your own port of Qtopia for the OpenMoko phone, and distribute it. If you do it, and you do a good job, many people who buy their phone could follow appropriate instructions and be able to enjoy a Qtopia interface from day one. Maybe someone might even provide the phones with Qtopia pre-installed (I do not know about licensing though). But OpenMoko developers should have the right to choose the development tools they prefer. It is they who have a lot at stake in this project. The worse that can happen to you or me is that we won't be able to play with a new gizmo. Sean, Mickey, and the rest of the paid OpenMoko team are defining their future, while they put ideas to test. Let them work the way they prefer. Carlo PS I see that the Greenphone is on sale at $695. Any direct experience? Is it possible to have OpenMoko running on the Greenphone? We contacted Qt about this phone before we switched to the NEO. It is a phone you can buy from some chinese manufacturer. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: At the risk of being flamed : State of software
On Friday 24 August 2007 16:59, wim delvaux wrote: Perhaps with a different style or something but at least QTopia has been around for quite a few years, sporting a nice portfolio of apps, having a nice ,portable and powerfull GUI library. I know that the software is not fully GPL and FREE but what REALLY is Fully No such thing as 'not fully' GPL. Either you are GPL compliant or aren't. According to the Trolltech website: The Qtopia Open Source Edition is provided under the GNU General Public License v2.0. This specifies that you may freely use the Qtopia Open Source Edition for: * Development of open source/non-proprietary software that is also released under the GPL license. * Compiling and running GPL software developed by others. * Devices built with the Qtopia Open Source Edition may be freely distributed, provided the source code is supplied along with the device. Modified versions of the Qtopia Open Source Edition can also be copied, put on FTP sites and CD-ROMs, etc. So it is pointless to discuss whether QTopia is non-free (if you do that, you could start saying Linux is not free since RedHat is selling commercial Linux licenses). That being said, the OpenMoko team is free to use or make whatever ui, library or application it wishes. With Open Source you don't have a single right or wrong choice. The dev team can make their own, they can use Qtopia, they can fork Qtopia, it's only up to them, you could even have parallel solutions like you have on the desktop, you can use both Gnome and KDE on the same hardware and OS. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: At the risk of being flamed : State of software
Subject: Re: At the risk of being flamed : State of software Date: ven 24 ago 07 06:43:22 +0200 Quoting wim delvaux ([EMAIL PROTECTED]): have you ever tried using WxWidgets or Qt ? WxWidgets never crossed my path. Qt is out of the question since I don't do C++. I tried a handful of times to get familiar with it, and was fiercely rejected every time. But this all is quite personal stuff, that is probably of limited interest to list readers... Carlo -- * Se la Strada e la sua Virtu' non fossero state messe da parte, * K * Carlo E. Prelz - [EMAIL PROTECTED] che bisogno ci sarebbe * di parlare tanto di amore e di rettitudine? (Chuang-Tzu) ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: At the risk of being flamed : State of software
Subject: Re: At the risk of being flamed : State of software Date: ven 24 ago 07 05:53:43 +0200 Quoting wim delvaux ([EMAIL PROTECTED]): GTK ? GTK is a graphics library on top of which you desperately need a higher level of abstraction (e.g. WxWidgets). I used GTK, either directly from C or from its Ruby interface, so many times now, without feeling any specific need for a further level of abstraction. The Ruby interface defines objects for the various GTK classes, but then it has almost a 1-to-1 correspondence between function calls and methods. Flexibility is not negative: it offers more opportunities. Comparing with QTopia, if you look at all what has been acchieved with KDE : K3B, Amarok etc etc all great apps using a 'non free' but freely available high quality library... I believe you are welcome, even encouraged, to do your own port of Qtopia for the OpenMoko phone, and distribute it. If you do it, and you do a good job, many people who buy their phone could follow appropriate instructions and be able to enjoy a Qtopia interface from day one. Maybe someone might even provide the phones with Qtopia pre-installed (I do not know about licensing though). But OpenMoko developers should have the right to choose the development tools they prefer. It is they who have a lot at stake in this project. The worse that can happen to you or me is that we won't be able to play with a new gizmo. Sean, Mickey, and the rest of the paid OpenMoko team are defining their future, while they put ideas to test. Let them work the way they prefer. Carlo PS I see that the Greenphone is on sale at $695. Any direct experience? Is it possible to have OpenMoko running on the Greenphone? -- * Se la Strada e la sua Virtu' non fossero state messe da parte, * K * Carlo E. Prelz - [EMAIL PROTECTED] che bisogno ci sarebbe * di parlare tanto di amore e di rettitudine? (Chuang-Tzu) ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: At the risk of being flamed : State of software
Hi all, Personally, I intend to use Qtopia for my homebrew phone (because of lots of reasons, but mostly because of the OpenGL ES acceleration). I'm certain OpenMoko will never switch to Qtopia as so much effort has been put in already. I suspect, however that Qtopia may one day find itself running on the GTA02 as a separate project, as already mentioned. Considering how easy it was for the Gumstix guys to get Qtopia working (It took about 5 minutes, just a recompile) I think a Qtopia based OS on the GTA02 will quickly overtake a GTK+ based OS in speed, reliability and functionality. That is my own, personal opinion, but this is a subject I have researched very heavily over the last 12-months. A fair bit of my research is published on the elinux website, if anyone's interested in reading more: http://www.elinux.org/User_Interfaces. Technical Stuff === Qtopia is in a far more stable state and runs _quickly_, it has to, Trolltech sell it as commercial product! What's more importent is that it can take advantage of the OpenGL ES hardware acceleration, which will be avaliable on the GTA02 (see http://doc.trolltech.com/4.3-snapshot/qtopiacore-ahigl.html on how to do this). Getting OpenGL ES acceleration working under GTK+ _will_ be a huge task, requiring massive chunks of Cairo to be rewritten. Remember, the only OpenGL acceleration Cairo has is Glitz, which I believe is unmaintained and only accelerates image composition tasks anyway. Plus, it's OpenGL, not OpenGL ES and will require work to port it. From what I've read, the OpenGL ES stuff currently in Qtopia provides window transition effects similar to Beryl on desktop systems. I guess this can probably be extended easily to get a cube desktop on the GTA02. Plus, it all done in hardware so will be _fast_. Licensing = As mentioned, Qtopia is avaliable under the GPL. Strictly speaking it is more open than GTK+ which is distributed under the LGPL (Lesser GPL). I.e. Open source developers put in time and effort to develop GTK+ code. A big company can come along and say, yes, I like that, I think I'll use it. So they do and write closed-source software using the freely avaliable GTK+ code. They sell it and make lots of money out of other people's work, without contributing a thing back to the community, not even source code. This is all perfectly legal under the LGPL and has been done in the past by companies like VMWare, real networks (real player), adobe and many others. On the other hand, Qtopia is avaliable under the GPL (The full on GPL, not a GPL-like license, the GPL itself). As far as I understand it, there is nothing stopping anyone forking Qtopia (if deemed necessary) so long as they always publish their changes for everyone to see (As specified under the GPL). Anyone using Qtopia is obliged to publish the source code of their application, not just the changes they have made to Qtopia itself. So, IMO, all this talk of using GTK+ as it's developed by the community is a little redundant. Why not just take Qtopia, as long as you publish any changes, the community can develop it as much as they want. Finally, I feel I should remind people what's happening with Hildon. Nokia spend a lot of money hiring developers to develop Hildon, the GTK+ based framework on the N770 and N800. Now, Intel has come along and decided to take all the work Nokia has done and make it run on their own devices. How would FIC look if say HTC came along and took OpenMoko and put it onto their own phones? Cheers, Tom PS: Just read a few other posts... As mentioned on elinux, unlike desktop systems, it is _not_ possible to run both Qtopia and GTK+ applications simultaniously. It's one or the other (although it might be possible to get a hack working using DirectFB). ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Karl Good is out of the office
I will be out of the office starting 15/12/2006 and will not return until 24/08/2009. I have now left Symbian. For any urgent issues, in the first instance, contact Jim Clarke, x1045 - ** Symbian Software Ltd is a company registered in England and Wales with registered number 4190020 and registered office at 2-6 Boundary Row, Southwark, London, SE1 8HP, UK. This message is intended only for use by the named addressee and may contain privileged and/or confidential information. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, copy or take any action in reliance on it. If you have received this message in error please notify [EMAIL PROTECTED] and delete the message and any attachments accompanying it immediately. Neither Symbian nor any of its Affiliates accepts liability for any corruption, interception, amendment, tampering or viruses occurring to this message in transit or for any message sent by its employees which is not in compliance with Symbian corporate policy. **___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: At the risk of being flamed : State of software
But OpenMoko developers should have the right to choose the development tools they prefer. It is they who have a lot at stake in this project. The worse that can happen to you or me is that we won't be able to play with a new gizmo. Sean, Mickey, and the rest of the paid OpenMoko team are defining their future, while they put ideas to test. Let them work the way they prefer. ++ If you really like the idea of using WxWidgets or Qt, that's great. Feel free to port it over to OpenMoko. You certainly have the freedom to do that. I'm not sure just how open the Trolltech software is, but is the OS open enough to port GTK/Gnome over to the Greenphone? Just curious. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: transreflective screen
It seems that the screen is transrefrective. Bernardo Pellegrini: Hi, are there any chances to have a transreflective screen, instead of a normal LCD screen, in the next hardware release? I think that's a priority to develop a fully-usable device... Many thanks B.P. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
FW: Karl Good is out of the office
Hmmm can someone bounce this idiot. Regards, Dean Collins Cognation Pty Ltd [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] +1-212-203-4357 Ph +61-2-9016-5642 (Sydney in-dial). From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, 24 August 2007 1:23 PM To: community@lists.openmoko.org Subject: Karl Good is out of the office I will be out of the office starting 15/12/2006 and will not return until 24/08/2009. I have now left Symbian. For any urgent issues, in the first instance, contact Jim Clarke, x1045 ** Symbian Software Ltd is a company registered in England and Wales with registered number 4190020 and registered office at 2-6 Boundary Row, Southwark, London, SE1 8HP, UK. This message is intended only for use by the named addressee and may contain privileged and/or confidential information. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, copy or take any action in reliance on it. If you have received this message in error please notify [EMAIL PROTECTED] and delete the message and any attachments accompanying it immediately. Neither Symbian nor any of its Affiliates accepts liability for any corruption, interception, amendment, tampering or viruses occurring to this message in transit or for any message sent by its employees which is not in compliance with Symbian corporate policy. ** ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Karl Good is out of the office
On 24-Aug-07, at 10:53 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I will be out of the office starting 15/12/2006 and will not return until 24/08/2009. I have now left Symbian. For any urgent issues, in the first instance, contact Jim Clarke, x1045 I loved it when I receive a vacation response from Nokia, and now symbian ;) Just a few more steps to world domination :) Warren Brian Noronha ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: At the risk of being flamed : State of software
I like Qtopie too. Especially considering how well they could handle embedded guis for years. But in reallity. qt and c++ is a limitation. Look how far Opie was evolved during the last years and how god id was from the beginning. But it still was more or less insignificant. Then look how far Nokia got with theyr maemo gtk modell. Within half a year they had a big community and lots of great programms ported. Sure, gtk and x is not as clean as qt is. But what does it help? I'm quite happy with the choice. But i would enjoy trieung out qtopia on my neo if anyone ports it. But where the real stuff goes on is the pragmatic way. wim delvaux wrote: HI all, Champion of open source and user of familiar on Ipaq when time was new, i wonder if it was such a good idea to rewrite from scratch an entire GUI system. Knowing that the device is now about 6 months late and looking at the overall stability and completeness of the GUI (List of issues is still long perhaps too long ?) I wonder if it would not have been a better solution to put things like QTopia on the phone. I mean, how long will it still take to get things to this level (http://trolltech.com/products/qtopia/learnmore/screenshots4/?searchterm=screenshots) ? Perhaps with a different style or something but at least QTopia has been around for quite a few years, sporting a nice portfolio of apps, having a nice ,portable and powerfull GUI library. I know that the software is not fully GPL and FREE but what REALLY is Fully free ? AFAIK you can mess around with qtopia ad lib (hey, look at opie's fork), sources are available, support is great (KDE ...) and for FIC's sake, they can focus there entire resource of a great phone. For me, the free community does not need (really) a new GUI library. It needs a good phone ! Our interest lies in having a nicely featured device available so that we hackers can release our creativity and write apps that users like and not - yet again - re-invent the wheel to start all over again. And for what ? For a theme ? For true GPL ? ... So what about porting QTopia to the NEO as backup scenario ? I.e. how much more delays can we afford ? W ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: At the risk of being flamed : State of software
Hi, This is OpenGL ES stuff what I was (intending to atleast) talking about, the inherent ability in the core gui to use the new features for devices like mobile phones. Real interfacing with 3d that far surpasses the current expectation is something I'm looking for in a phone like this. That being pricey high tech phone that it is. Yes, it's REALLY nice that I could be able to hack into it. Totally exciting prospect, sweet even. But as the gui stands now, I hope there are plans brewing in FIC to beef it up before the launch. Call me vain, but the other phones in same price category are just somewhat much better looking (iPhone, LGPrada, having a design of their own other than just orange-black...). And there are some people for whom that kind of things mean a lot. Maybe it should be a priority to include them too, rather than exclude? Of course some people might think, that once we get the ball rolling, the community will get this phone in the air. Personally I don't mind, apt-getting and fixing the setup is a second nature. But I'd hazard a guess that it'd be just the thing that would drive people away from openmoko. Basically a single question should clear this up. Is GTA02 a ..? a) geek phone b) community phone If the answer is b, I guess this sort of things should get some consideration time also on the community board. It should be nice from the get-go. The community should be able to help with that. And since I've heard so many people in here saying 'why dont you do the feature XX yourself', I've got to comment on it: Empowerment over the device is a nice thing, only that not everybody has the skills required or especially the time required to do all those things. Bottom line is that organizations like Novell, Redhat or Ximian with paid people have done a great deal of focused work for the benefit of all. Most of the core features in the phone should come from same kind of businesses (say, FIC for instance ( I really appreciate your hard efforts )). This holds true atleast for the first few iterations of the phones, while the community builds up and the phone starts to shape our culture. It's great that I can change everything in the phone if need be. Even better is that I should not need to change anything, maybe if I just could get more stuff done, Stuff-That-Matters-To-Me. With style, with ease of use. We just should not aim too low. We'll hit the nut sacks that way. ;) -- Kalle. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: At the risk of being flamed : State of software
On Aug 24, 2007, at 12:57 PM, Carlo E. Prelz wrote: WxWidgets never crossed my path. Qt is out of the question since I don't do C++. I tried a handful of times to get familiar with it, and was fiercely rejected every time. That's strange - I have tried a variety of widget libraries, including Gtk, and the one that I found easiest to work with, by a wide margine, was Qt 4. I never tried programming Qt 3, and from what I've seen of it it looks a lot less straightforward. So if that's the one you tried, and you're curious, you might give Qt 4 a shot. The best way to learn is to start with someone else's working code and modify it, so that you get a feel for the system, rather than trying to start from scratch. Personally, I think that the 2007.2 UI looks *fantastic*, despite the color scheme, and I love the flick-scrolling. But I am depressed at how easily the applications crash. This is the problem with coding UIs in C or C++. Anyway, if you like Qtopia, please don't sit on the sidelines and kibbitz - try to get it running. There's absolutely no harm in people investing effort in trying other stuff. If you look at how many people bought one of these phones, and how many people are actively hacking, you can see that there's a lot of thrashing going on. Which is perfectly find - if you thrash enough, sometimes you get butter. So go try Qtopia! ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: 2007.2 compilation failed with package uicmoc4-native-4.0.3
Jimmy McMillan wrote: I'm having the same problem. Could you please explain what you did exactly to fix it. Like i said, building uicmoc4 out of Qt/Embedded, which doesn't need X. uic and moc are Qt tools, you can build them against Qt/X11 or Qt/Embedded. -- - Michael Lauer [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://openmoko.org/ Software for the worlds' first truly open Free Software mobile phone ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: At the risk of being flamed : State of software
Tilman Baumann wrote: I like Qtopie too. Especially considering how well they could handle embedded guis for years. But in reallity. qt and c++ is a limitation. Look how far Opie was evolved during the last years and how god id was from the beginning. But it still was more or less insignificant. Opie is but a fork of Qtopia. Using Qt and c++ is hardly a limitation. Take a look at KDE. Then look how far Nokia got with theyr maemo gtk modell. Within half a year they had a big community and lots of great programms ported. Thats more because they had some cool hardware. Meamo is not all that free - it contains proprietary parts, which is a consequence of using LGPL, which is why Amgstrom does not build flash images for these devices. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: At the risk of being flamed : State of software
off list. Just between you and me... there will be some great announcements in the next few weeks. wim delvaux wrote: HI all, Champion of open source and user of familiar on Ipaq when time was new, i wonder if it was such a good idea to rewrite from scratch an entire GUI system. Knowing that the device is now about 6 months late and looking at the overall stability and completeness of the GUI (List of issues is still long perhaps too long ?) I wonder if it would not have been a better solution to put things like QTopia on the phone. I mean, how long will it still take to get things to this level (http://trolltech.com/products/qtopia/learnmore/screenshots4/?searchterm=screenshots) ? about one week. Perhaps with a different style or something but at least QTopia has been around for quite a few years, sporting a nice portfolio of apps, having a nice ,portable and powerfull GUI library. I know that the software is not fully GPL and FREE but what REALLY is Fully free ? AFAIK you can mess around with qtopia ad lib (hey, look at opie's fork), sources are available, support is great (KDE ...) and for FIC's sake, they can focus there entire resource of a great phone. For me, the free community does not need (really) a new GUI library. It needs a good phone ! Our interest lies in having a nicely featured device available so that we hackers can release our creativity and write apps that users like and not - yet again - re-invent the wheel to start all over again. And for what ? For a theme ? For true GPL ? ... So what about porting QTopia to the NEO as backup scenario ? I.e. how much more delays can we afford ? -- Lorn 'ljp' Potter Software Engineer, Systems Group, MES, Trolltech ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Greenphone is not GPL (was RE: At the risk of being flamed : State of software)
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Licensing = As mentioned, Qtopia is avaliable under the GPL. Strictly speaking it is more open than GTK+ which is distributed under the LGPL (Lesser GPL). ... On the other hand, Qtopia is avaliable under the GPL (The full on GPL, not a GPL-like license, the GPL itself). Be careful that you look at exactly what is covered under that GPL licensing. In order to gain access to the phone stack for the Greenphone (a must for my purposes) you have to pay them almost $5K for a commercial license. See the top line of the table on this page: http://trolltech.com/products/qtopia/greenphone/greenphonesdk - John ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: 2007.2 compilation failed with package uicmoc4-native-4.0.3
Sorry I know this shouldn't be on community but since the thread is here... Michael 'Mickey' Lauer wrote: Like i said, building uicmoc4 out of Qt/Embedded, which doesn't need X. uic and moc are Qt tools, you can build them against Qt/X11 or Qt/Embedded So what do I need to have on my build system to resolve the following error when trying to build ? | make[1]: Entering directory `/home/moko/build/tmp/work/x86_64-linux/uicmoc4-native-4.3.1-r0/qtopia-core-opensource-src-4.3.1/src/tools/uic3' | g++ -Wl,-rpath,/home/moko/build/tmp/staging/x86_64-linux/qt4/lib -Wl,-rpath,/home/moko/build/tmp/staging/x86_64-linux/qt4/lib -o ../../../bin/uic3 .obj/release-static-emb-x86_64/customwidgetsinfo.o .obj/release-static-emb-x86_64/databaseinfo.o .obj/release-static-emb-x86_64/driver.o .obj/release-static-emb-x86_64/treewalker.o .obj/release-static-emb-x86_64/ui4.o .obj/release-static-emb-x86_64/uic.o .obj/release-static-emb-x86_64/validator.o .obj/release-static-emb-x86_64/cppextractimages.o .obj/release-static-emb-x86_64/cppwritedeclaration.o .obj/release-static-emb-x86_64/cppwriteicondata.o .obj/release-static-emb-x86_64/cppwriteicondeclaration.o .obj/release-static-emb-x86_64/cppwriteiconinitialization.o .obj/release-static-emb-x86_64/cppwriteincludes.o .obj/release-static-emb-x86_64/cppwriteinitialization.o .obj/release-static-emb-x86_64/main.o .obj/release-static-emb-x86_64/ui3reader.o .obj/release-static-emb-x86_64/parser.o .obj/release-static-emb-x86_64/domtool.o .obj/release-static-emb-x86_64/object.o .obj/release-static-emb-x86_64/subclassing.o .obj/release-static-emb-x86_64/form.o .obj/release-static-emb-x86_64/converter.o .obj/release-static-emb-x86_64/widgetinfo.o .obj/release-static-emb-x86_64/embed.o .obj/release-static-emb-x86_64/qt3to4.o .obj/release-static-emb-x86_64/deps.o -L/home/moko/build/tmp/work/x86_64-linux/uicmoc4-native-4.3.1-r0/qtopia-core-opensource-src-4.3.1/lib -lQt3Support -L/home/moko/build/tmp/work/x86_64-linux/uicmoc4-native-4.3.1-r0/qtopia-core-opensource-src-4.3.1/lib -lQtSql -lQtNetwork -lssl -lcrypto -lQtXml -lQtGui -lQtCore -lz -lm -lrt -ldl -lpthread | /home/moko/build/tmp/work/x86_64-linux/uicmoc4-native-4.3.1-r0/qtopia-core-opensource-src-4.3.1/lib/libQtGui.a(qapplication_qws.o): In function `QWSDisplay::Data::waitForQCopResponse()': | qapplication_qws.cpp:(.text+0x13f2): undefined reference to `QAbstractSocket::flush()' Thanks ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: At the risk of being flamed : State of software
On Fri, 2007-08-24 at 17:49 +0200, wim delvaux wrote: On Friday 24 August 2007 17:14:54 Thomas Wood wrote: On Fri, 2007-08-24 at 16:59 +0200, wim delvaux wrote: HI all, [...] To be honest, I think we are quite close already but you really need to be more specific about what you mean. Well I just flashed with the latest 0813 release and beside looking great, there is not much yet that is ready : no bluetooth, no gprs, no contacts, phone working a bit, no mail, suspend resume not OK yet, crashes etc etc. I think you must have missed something - the dialer and contacts is definitely working fairly well. You should make sure you update your software (ipkg update ipkg upgrade) as we have made even more significant progress in fixing bugs in the last week. Bluetooth and mail I can't comment on since I'm not involved in those areas. [...] The primary aim of the OpenMoko project and the Neo1973 is to create a software platform and a device that are entirely Free in the spirit of the Free Software movement. See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html for a definition of this. I don't think we need just another phone, we need one that embraces the ideals of the Free Software movement. This way we will be creating something truly unique and valuable. But wat IS free ? Personally the 'free' as defined by Trolltech : free for free soft, payed for soft that will be sold, sounds more 'reasonable' then free and you cannot make money out of your application. For me freedom means I have the possibility to do what I want with it providing I do not harm the rights of others. I think the freedom of QTopia (compare it to KDE) is good enough. It gives me lots of freedom and If I make a buck out of what I do with their work I need to pay them a buck too ... Maybe good enough for you, but why should we compromise? We can't start a revolution based on compromises! Regards, Thomas ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Karl Good is out of the office
Somebody from Symbian is reading this list? Its good we've caught the eye of some major players in the smartphone field. Maybe he should tell the IT admin he's left so they can recinde his @symbian.com email address. I loved it when I receive a vacation response from Nokia, and now symbian ;) Look at at the dates, 2.7 years vacation? What software is he using to send his vacation response that it gets sent 9 months late? ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Clarify openmoko != Neo1973
Dear list, I often read sentences like I think I'll buy an Openmoko in comments to news about Openmoko and the Neo1973. So how could we clarify what Openmoko actually is (a Linux distribution), and what it's not (a smartphone). Even the commercial website of Openmoko (openmoko.com) leaves the impression to me of Openmoko being a smartphone instead of being a Linux distribution *for smartphones like the Neo1973*. Well, at least this is my impression... Best regards, Daniel PS: I guess all these news are from members of this list. So maybe you could add a sentence to all your news? Something like: Openmoko is a linux distribution developed for mobile devices. The first device it will run on is the FIC Neo1973. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: At the risk of being flamed : State of software
Brad Midgley wrote: Lorn Just between you and me... there will be some great announcements in the next few weeks. I think you just said the loud part quiet and the quiet part loud (a simpsons reference :) doh! ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: At the risk of being flamed : State of software
Lorn Just between you and me... there will be some great announcements in the next few weeks. I think you just said the loud part quiet and the quiet part loud (a simpsons reference :) One big question out there regarding the viability of other platforms on neo remains: how much effort is FIC putting into pushing changes upstream? There's a lot of reinvention required if they don't. (Even reinvention within FIC having to forward port patches endlessly) Brad ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Greenphone is not GPL (was RE: At the risk of being flamed : State of software)
On Friday 24 August 2007 21:29:15 John Seghers wrote: Be careful that you look at exactly what is covered under that GPL licensing. In order to gain access to the phone stack for the Greenphone (a must for my purposes) you have to pay them almost $5K for a commercial license. A valid point here, but not really relevant. The phone stack is probably one of the things that is very chipset specific - I played around with embedded GSM modules from various manufacturers, and while generally they had the same AT commands, they required separate handling routines because of different extensions, timing specifics or simply implementation bugs. My guess is that the stack is a developed on commercial SDK-s for specific GSM chipsets and might include non-GPL code which might be a no-go for having these licensed as GPL by Trolltech (having roughly the same status as does the GPS daemon code in OpenMoko, but I'm guessing here). So in any case, I think that it is by far easier to write a GSM phone stack (especially having already written a couple :) ) than a complete GUI framework. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: At the risk of being flamed : State of software
One big question out there regarding the viability of other platforms on neo remains: how much effort is FIC putting into pushing changes upstream? There's a lot of reinvention required if they don't. (Even reinvention within FIC having to forward port patches endlessly) In terms or wheel re-inventing, this is happening a staggering amount at the moment. Currently, the following projects have a user interface based on a modified (to varying degrees) GTK+: OpenMoko, GPE Palmtop Environment, GPE Phone Edition, Hiker (Access Linux Platform), Sato (Opened Hand), Hildon (Maemo), Sugar (OLPC). And these are just the ones I've come across. This is why the Gnome Mobile Embedded project was started, to try and bring some of these projects together and stop duplicating so much effort. It was great to see that OpenMoko was involved in the Gnome Mobile project, I really hope projects resource start to be pulled together. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: At the risk of being flamed : State of software
On Friday 24 August 2007 18:59:23 Jeremy G wrote: I'm not sure just how open the Trolltech software is, but is the OS open enough to port GTK/Gnome over to the Greenphone? Just curious. The OS is Linux, you get a framebuffer and glibc, I see no problem there (sources available), with a slight problem of the Greenphone having a lower resolution screen and being oriented a bit more toward stylus usage. What is likely to fail is the camera and the GSM functionality which will have to be adapted to the given hardware. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: Greenphone is not GPL (was RE: At the risk of being flamed :State of software)
Be careful that you look at exactly what is covered under that GPL licensing. In order to gain access to the phone stack for the Greenphone (a must for my purposes) you have to pay them almost $5K for a commercial license. I think Qtopia Core is what's covered under the GPL. Qtopia core is the complete framework for application including all the windowing rendering stuff plus all the nice QT widgets for stuff like networking etc. It doesn't contain any actual applications. Qtopia Platform is a set of applications built on Qtopia Core, which are not all licenced under the GPL. Looking at the Trolltech website, there is Qtopia Open Source Edition however, which is a near-complete package of the Qtopia Phone Edition and Qtopia Platform source code. It includes an extensive source code for Qtopia applications and libraries.. I really need to get the LCD up and running on my phone and start trying these things out! :-) I may just wait for a GTA02 and try it out on that, assuming it will come with OpenGL ES libraries. (Anyone?) Cheers, Tom ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Clarify openmoko != Neo1973
Daniel Spies wrote: Openmoko is a linux distribution developed for mobile devices. The first device it will run on is the FIC Neo1973. That is too complicated for some. Some may even not want a Linux Distribution, just that new phone. Don't confuse them. They'll discover sooner or later. And when other phones are available some time, they have to clarify. It's like I have a Nokia or I have Motorola Phone. Some may not even know the designation of their device. Openmoko is easy to grasp. just my 2 cent Patrick ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: At the risk of being flamed : State of software
Am 24.08.2007 um 21:03 schrieb Lorn Potter: Tilman Baumann wrote: I like Qtopie too. Especially considering how well they could handle embedded guis for years. But in reallity. qt and c++ is a limitation. Look how far Opie was evolved during the last years and how god id was from the beginning. But it still was more or less insignificant. Opie is but a fork of Qtopia. Using Qt and c++ is hardly a limitation. Take a look at KDE. The limitation is that you have to use it. If you like it or not. Or in other words, you don't code for the project unless you are a QT nerd. Then look how far Nokia got with theyr maemo gtk modell. Within half a year they had a big community and lots of great programms ported. Thats more because they had some cool hardware. Meamo is not all that free - it contains proprietary parts, which is a consequence of using LGPL, which is why Amgstrom does not build flash images for these devices. I'm not talking bout freedom. I'm talking about easy porting and giving a community the tools they are used to use. Sure QT is cool, kde is cool and qtopia is cool. But you limit yourself to the fraction of delopers who care about QT. Openmoko (and maemo) it is more or less, take one of millions of gtk programms kick it through the compiler and run it. And if you like it usable, replce some gtk widgets. As i said. Give me qtopia on the Neo, i would like it. But i can certainly see why his was not choosen as default. And i'm happy with that decision. Gtk is no bad desicion at all. Even though i agee, qtopia is relly sexy. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: At the risk of being flamed : State of software
On Sat, 25 Aug 2007, Tilman Baumann wrote: Am 24.08.2007 um 21:03 schrieb Lorn Potter: Tilman Baumann wrote: I like Qtopie too. Especially considering how well they could handle embedded guis for years. But in reallity. qt and c++ is a limitation. Look how far Opie was evolved during the last years and how god id was from the beginning. But it still was more or less insignificant. Opie is but a fork of Qtopia. Using Qt and c++ is hardly a limitation. Take a look at KDE. The limitation is that you have to use it. If you like it or not. Or in other words, you don't code for the project unless you are a QT nerd. Likewise any project/language. Then look how far Nokia got with theyr maemo gtk modell. Within half a year they had a big community and lots of great programms ported. Thats more because they had some cool hardware. Meamo is not all that free - it contains proprietary parts, which is a consequence of using LGPL, which is why Amgstrom does not build flash images for these devices. I'm not talking bout freedom. I'm talking about easy porting and giving a community the tools they are used to use. Sure QT is cool, kde is cool and qtopia is cool. But you limit yourself to the fraction of delopers who care about QT. Openmoko (and maemo) it is more or less, take one of millions of gtk programms kick it through the compiler and run it. Millions is a bit far fetched. But the same holds true for Qt apps. And if you like it usable, replce some gtk widgets. That's more like it. Desktop usability does not translate to mobile phones so even if there were millions of desktop apps to choose from, work has to be done making it for a small screen/touchscreen/ mobile phone. As i said. Give me qtopia on the Neo, i would like it. But i can certainly see why his was not choosen as default. And i'm happy with that decision. Personally, I don't. but I am biased. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Clarify openmoko != Neo1973
Openmoko.org's front page could show more than one smartphone running the system, or screenshots of it without any hardware visible. That may magically get the point across... -Dylan McCall On 8/24/07, Daniel Spies [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear list, I often read sentences like I think I'll buy an Openmoko in comments to news about Openmoko and the Neo1973. So how could we clarify what Openmoko actually is (a Linux distribution), and what it's not (a smartphone). Even the commercial website of Openmoko (openmoko.com) leaves the impression to me of Openmoko being a smartphone instead of being a Linux distribution *for smartphones like the Neo1973*. Well, at least this is my impression... Best regards, Daniel PS: I guess all these news are from members of this list. So maybe you could add a sentence to all your news? Something like: Openmoko is a linux distribution developed for mobile devices. The first device it will run on is the FIC Neo1973. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Misleading title: Re: Greenphone is not GPL (was RE: At the risk of being flamed :State of software)
On Friday 24 August 2007 23:08:59 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: doesn't contain any actual applications. Qtopia Platform is a set of applications built on Qtopia Core, which are not all licenced under the GPL. Looking at the Trolltech website, there is Qtopia Open Source Edition however, which is a near-complete package of the Qtopia Phone Edition and Qtopia Platform source code. It includes an extensive source code for Qtopia applications and libraries.. I don't work for Trolltech nor do I want to turn this into a qtopia-interest list, but please read a bit more carefully: Q: What does the package contain? A: Qtopia Open Source Edition contains everything that is in the commercial source version, except Safe eXecution Environment (SXE) – the security benefits of a “sandbox” on the device with the benefits of a native application approach – digital rights management (DRM) and telephony components. If you want check on the exact components, see: http://doc.trolltech.com/qtopia4.2/qtopia-components.html The bottom line is the previous subject is completely false - please, let's not try to diminish any other OpenSource effort by spreading FUD no matter how much we _all_ like Openmoko, Neo1973 and the teams who made it possible. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: At the risk of being flamed : State of software
On Saturday 25 August 2007 00:07:30 Tilman Baumann wrote: The limitation is that you have to use it. If you like it or not. Or in other words, you don't code for the project unless you are a QT nerd. ? Don't really see a difference with regard to GTK+ here - while you may prefer one of the two, that doesn't free you from having to learn how to use your GUI (if you already know GTK+, that's not QTs fault, and that goes the other way round, too). As for c++, it's all c++ on the inside, but nobody is beating you with a stick to use it from c++, there are bindings for quite a lot of non-nerd languages out there (just like GTK, what a coincidence :). ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Clarify openmoko != Neo1973
The FIC Neo1973 powered by OpenMoko I see these small banners in the future: Powered by OpenMoko that would show up on different devices... in the same style as Powered by Apache, etc... My 2c On 8/24/07, Patrick [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Daniel Spies wrote: Openmoko is a linux distribution developed for mobile devices. The first device it will run on is the FIC Neo1973. That is too complicated for some. Some may even not want a Linux Distribution, just that new phone. Don't confuse them. They'll discover sooner or later. And when other phones are available some time, they have to clarify. It's like I have a Nokia or I have Motorola Phone. Some may not even know the designation of their device. Openmoko is easy to grasp. just my 2 cent Patrick ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
USB Booting from a neo in mass storage mode ?
Hi, Sorry to bring this up again (this subject was briefly discussed here some monts ago), but i finally decided to wait for the GTA02 device, which prevents me to test the effect of booting a regular computer from the neo's transflash in mass storage mode. http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Wishlist:LiveUSB_distro Could a happy neo owner confirm on infirm the (im)possibility of usb booting ? Any informations about USB mass storage mode (if implemented) would be greatly appreciated as well. Thanks, Florent ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: USB Booting from a neo in mass storage mode ?
Florent THIERY wrote: Hi, Sorry to bring this up again (this subject was briefly discussed here some monts ago), but i finally decided to wait for the GTA02 device, which prevents me to test the effect of booting a regular computer from the neo's transflash in mass storage mode. http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Wishlist:LiveUSB_distro Could a happy neo owner confirm on infirm the (im)possibility of usb booting ? Any informations about USB mass storage mode (if implemented) would be greatly appreciated as well. In principle - trivial. In practice - the kernel driver to switch from USB device to host mode isn't yet implemented - it's relatively trivial - but hasn't been done yet. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: FW: Karl Good is out of the office
On Fri, 2007-08-24 at 13:39 -0400, Dean Collins wrote: Hmmm can someone bounce this idiot. Looks like Karl left symbian in a hurry, maybe he got caught reading the mailing list at work. Regards, Dean Collins Cognation Pty Ltd [EMAIL PROTECTED] +1-212-203-4357 Ph +61-2-9016-5642 (Sydney in-dial). __ From:[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, 24 August 2007 1:23 PM To: community@lists.openmoko.org Subject: Karl Good is out of the office I will be out of the office starting 15/12/2006 and will not return until 24/08/2009. I have now left Symbian. For any urgent issues, in the first instance, contact Jim Clarke, x1045 __ ** Symbian Software Ltd is a company registered in England and Wales with registered number 4190020 and registered office at 2-6 Boundary Row, Southwark, London, SE1 8HP, UK. This message is intended only for use by the named addressee and may contain privileged and/or confidential information. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, copy or take any action in reliance on it. If you have received this message in error please notify [EMAIL PROTECTED] and delete the message and any attachments accompanying it immediately. Neither Symbian nor any of its Affiliates accepts liability for any corruption, interception, amendment, tampering or viruses occurring to this message in transit or for any message sent by its employees which is not in compliance with Symbian corporate policy. ** plain text document attachment (ATT02516.txt), ATT02516.txt ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- Brian Beattie LFS12947 | Honor isn't about making the right choices. [EMAIL PROTECTED] | It's about dealing with the consequences. www.beattie-home.net | -- Midori Koto ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
