Re: Warning. Don't remove battery with usb power
Ben Wilson wrote: Hey Nick, I've not looked at the electronics inside the neo myself but the sound is typical in the electronics world of a switchmode power supply under grate strain. The reason is a bit more banal. (AFAIK) The scream has just the frequency how much the main cpu can boot and detect that there is no battery and reset. (something like that) Probably not a good thing for the components, but not a result of any stress to the power drivers. But maybe it results in stress for them... Don't know. Better avoid it. :) Regards Tilman Baumann ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: 25 native [iPhone|OpenMoko] we hope to see
joerg wrote: Am Mo 3. März 2008 schrieb Tilman Baumann: David Samblas Martinez wrote: 22. Digital level Is any side of the phone straigh enough to be able to develop such a freaking geek widget? I could be a funny exercice to play with the accelerometers. Sure, at least backside. No camera, no point. ;) Tilman ??? I assumed that this would use the camera and overlay some horizontal bars or something like that on the live picture to help to level something. But i realise that you could also simulate a water level on the screen and hold the device with it's side onto something. Sometimes i think a bit complicated... Tilman ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: 25 native [iPhone|OpenMoko] we hope to see
On Mon, 03 Mar 2008 15:23:07 +0100, kenneth marken wrote: heh, i suspect that many of those are in the works or will show up as the openmoko phones start to spread out. some of those can even be done by ports of existing software, like pidgin for im support of any kind. Now *that* is a cool idea :) -Thufir ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Warning. Don't remove battery with usb power
Am Di 4. März 2008 schrieb Tilman Baumann: Ben Wilson wrote: Hey Nick, I've not looked at the electronics inside the neo myself but the sound is typical in the electronics world of a switchmode power supply under grate strain. The reason is a bit more banal. (AFAIK) The scream has just the frequency how much the main cpu can boot and detect that there is no battery and reset. (something like that) Probably not a good thing for the components, but not a result of any stress to the power drivers. My idea: 50606 PMU is switching rapidly between BATT_VERY_LOW and BAT_OVERVOLT state, and btw powers on and of the whole NEO hw. Not verified. But maybe it results in stress for them... Don't know. Better avoid it. :) agree. j ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Warning. Don't remove battery with usb power
Yeah, without knowing how the power system is done i dunno either. It could be the charging circuit going to max output to try and raise the battery volts above the min level, (which of course it can't). Whatever the cause, the scream is definitely coming from a coil or inductor vibrating due to the attraction/repulsion between its own magnetic field and the earth's. But which coil/inductor and what's causing it to go into this state i dunno. Ben. Tilman Baumann wrote: Ben Wilson wrote: Hey Nick, I've not looked at the electronics inside the neo myself but the sound is typical in the electronics world of a switchmode power supply under grate strain. The reason is a bit more banal. (AFAIK) The scream has just the frequency how much the main cpu can boot and detect that there is no battery and reset. (something like that) Probably not a good thing for the components, but not a result of any stress to the power drivers. But maybe it results in stress for them... Don't know. Better avoid it. :) Regards Tilman Baumann ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Any experience with this BT keyboard?
I was dreaming/whishing/fantasizing about owning a Freerunner and I finally decide that for a lot of funny things(make long documents, programing, be more geeker, etc..) it will be very recomendable to have an external Keyboard, but as portable as the Neo itself so. I was googling and I have found this affordable BT keyboard (in spanish layout also :)) http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=150219917678ssPageName=ADME:B:WNA:US:1123 I have found no any reference in linux about compatibility(or lack of it) so if any one has experience or has a Neo and want to try If it works I maybe buy one of this before the phone __ ¿Con Mascota por primera vez? Sé un mejor Amigo. Entra en Yahoo! Respuestas http://es.answers.yahoo.com/info/welcome ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Problem trying to build qemu-local using MokoMakefile
François TOURDE wrote: Hi, Trying to run make qemu-local, I got the following message, some lines after Please wait, programming the NAND flash... -8---8---8---8---8-- neo_vib_switch: Vibrator stopped. neo_bl_switch: LCD Backlight now on. qemu: fatal: Trying to execute code outside RAM or ROM at 0x -8---8---8---8---8-- (More detailed trace can be found here: http://pastebin.com/m239ade67) Got the same error on Debian sid ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Any experience with iGO stowaway BT keyboard?
I got it from amazon uk (qwerty) without the Dell branding and it works like a charme. Just switch on bluetooth and then do hidd --search That's it. If there are plenty of other BT things around you, go with hidd --connect BT-MAC-OF-KEYBOARD Apart from being careful when opening and closing it, the keys work really well, nice touch - you can type pretty fast. Marcus On Tue, 2008-03-04 at 11:55 +0100, David Samblas Martinez wrote: I was dreaming/whishing/fantasizing about owning a Freerunner and I finally decide that for a lot of funny things(make long documents, programing, be more geeker, etc..) it will be very recomendable to have an external Keyboard, but as portable as the Neo itself so. I was googling and I have found this affordable BT keyboard (in spanish layout also :)) http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=150219917678ssPageName=ADME:B:WNA:US:1123 I have found no any reference in linux about compatibility(or lack of it) so if any one has experience or has a Neo and want to try If it works I maybe buy one of this before the phone ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Any experience with this BT keyboard?
David Samblas Martinez ha scritto: I was dreaming/whishing/fantasizing about owning a Freerunner and I finally decide that for a lot of funny things(make long documents, programing, be more geeker, etc..) it will be very recomendable to have an external Keyboard, but as portable as the Neo itself so. I was googling and I have found this affordable BT keyboard (in spanish layout also :)) http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=150219917678ssPageName=ADME:B:WNA:US:1123 I have found no any reference in linux about compatibility(or lack of it) so if any one has experience or has a Neo and want to try If it works I maybe buy one of this before the phone I have one of these keyboards, seems that Dell rebranded it because the original is from ThinkOutside. I use it on Symbian, but it also works well with Ubuntu. I think that this keyboard works until the host has HID bluetooth or something like that, you know, if your pc recognizes bluetooth keyboards then this keyboard should work too without additional drivers. I'm hoping too to use that keyboard myself on the Freerunner! Nice keyboard anyway, very compact, i think the best in the market atm. -- Federico Belvisi ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Warning. Don't remove battery with usb power
Just a reminder to everyone *NOT* to pull out the battery while the neo has USB power. i did this. i had to get a new neo: my first one got *fried* from this. dunno what to do with the old one, frankly it bothers me having it sit there doing nothing. anyone got any suggestions? ; -- Jay Vaughan ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Audio wired Headset
Hi all, I am a little bit embarrassed: my audio headset is lost, another one bought recently is not compatible (a 4 ring model for a Nokia, the resulting sound is too low, almost unusable). Is it possible to buy a new audio wired headset from OpenMoko.inc? Otherwise, where can we get one please (OpenMoko distributor?). The wiki mentions several models. Analog wired Headset There's a four-ring 2.5mm stereo jack which provides connectivity to old-fashioned wired headsets. The headsets used by Motorola smartphones (A780,A1200, ...) and the V-360 have a compatible configuration. http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973_hardware#Audio There is a A1200 model in ebay, but it seems to come with a very different plug :-/ Gilles ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Multi-touch: Many questions to one desire....
Hi, tis me again. A little bit of forward thinking here. When I first came to OpenMoko it was a mid the torrent of the iPhone hype. I will admit that I was dissolution with the possibility that the multi-touch interface was an easy addition to OpenMoko. With some time to think and study the availability of the technology, I soon realized that my thinking on the matter was quite naive. Maybe I still am naive on the matter, but considering alot of the hard work to get GTA02 off the ground and running, I was thinking that if OpenMoko was considering the possibility of a multi-touch interface seriously maybe it is something that could be found on the next device afterwards (be it the GTA03 or something later). If that is the case, then such an input device will not appear out of thin air. At this point and time what would be realistic, would Openmoko Inc. form a partnership with supplier of the technology, does FIC Group happen to have something inhouse that could be utilized? What are the legal implications and potholes? Etc. Truth is that I love the concept behind the Openmoko phone. A phone that 'I' truly control, not my provider, not the manufacturer (not completely, anyway). A phone that grants me, 'freedom'. If anything, considering what is out there, I would like to more open-idea to establishing that sense of freedom so I only offer this chance to brain storm what else we can do to provide that. Here is hoping that I have not let the genie out of the bottle. Duv P.S.: I apologize in advance for the possibility of this discussion degrading into a flame-fest, that is not my intention. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Warning. Don't remove battery with usb power
Jay Vaughan wrote: Just a reminder to everyone *NOT* to pull out the battery while the neo has USB power. i did this. i had to get a new neo: my first one got *fried* from this. dunno what to do with the old one, frankly it bothers me having it sit there doing nothing. anyone got any suggestions? The dead part should be easy to find. And all chips are known... I would say, try to repair it. Or find someone who can... Do you know what part is dead? ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Audio wired Headset
Am Di 4. März 2008 schrieb Gilles Casse: Hi all, I am a little bit embarrassed: my audio headset is lost, another one bought recently is not compatible (a 4 ring model for a Nokia, the resulting sound is too low, almost unusable). Is it possible to buy a new audio wired headset from OpenMoko.inc? Otherwise, where can we get one please (OpenMoko distributor?). The wiki mentions several models. Analog wired Headset There's a four-ring 2.5mm stereo jack which provides connectivity to old-fashioned wired headsets. The headsets used by Motorola smartphones (A780,A1200, ...) and the V-360 have a compatible configuration. http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973_hardware#Audio I can't help by selling headsets, but at least i may deliver exact pinout for the jack from diagrams, so you might check for compatibility. base = ground speaker left (internal impedance 33R) to ground. (+jackinsert detection) speaker right (internal impedance 33R) to ground. tip = mic electret condenser type, to ground. bias (power for mic) 2K2 from +3.3v(wolfson codec) (+HoldButton shortcircuit to ground) Due to the internal 33R resistors, any low impedance headset will not work (or only low sound). I guess 40R should be minimum impedance for the speakers. cheers jOERG ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Multi-touch: Many questions to one desire....
Am Di 4. März 2008 schrieb Duvelle Jones: I will admit that I was dissolution with the possibility that the multi-touch interface was an easy addition to OpenMoko. With some time to think and study the availability of the technology, I soon realized that my thinking on the matter was quite naive. I'm investigating to squeeze some multi-touch properties out of the GTA02 4wire-resistor touchscreen, by hacking the basics and probing the ts in a couple non-recommended completely different manners. There still is a little hope... However this is not meant to distract attention from discussion of a true multi-ts for GTA03. I think this should be a capacitive one. jOERG ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Multi-touch: Many questions to one desire....
I think this is an interesting reading about iphone multi-touch screen: http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/iphone1.htm 2008/3/4, joerg [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Am Di 4. März 2008 schrieb Duvelle Jones: I will admit that I was dissolution with the possibility that the multi-touch interface was an easy addition to OpenMoko. With some time to think and study the availability of the technology, I soon realized that my thinking on the matter was quite naive. I'm investigating to squeeze some multi-touch properties out of the GTA02 4wire-resistor touchscreen, by hacking the basics and probing the ts in a couple non-recommended completely different manners. There still is a little hope... However this is not meant to distract attention from discussion of a true multi-ts for GTA03. I think this should be a capacitive one. jOERG ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Multi-touch: Many questions to one desire....
Hi guys, I have thought a bit about multitouch and its possible usecases and the longer I think about it the less exciting I find it on a mobile phone. The technology per se is great and I'm sure it will allow for great innovation among UI's on large monitors, tablets, and even desks. However, on small screen systems such as the Neo (or even the iPhone) -- what do you want to do with it? The ubiquitous zooming and rotating examples are not convincing me at all. With some clever state logic you can zoom and rotate very efficient on unitouch systems. So... where are those usecases that apply to a phone? :M: ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Multi-touch: Many questions to one desire....
So... where are those usecases that apply to a phone? maybe pressing the shift key for typing uppercase letters :P ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Multi-touch: Many questions to one desire....
On Tuesday 04 March 2008, Michael 'Mickey' Lauer wrote: Hi guys, I have thought a bit about multitouch and its possible usecases and the longer I think about it the less exciting I find it on a mobile phone. The technology per se is great and I'm sure it will allow for great innovation among UI's on large monitors, tablets, and even desks. However, on small screen systems such as the Neo (or even the iPhone) -- what do you want to do with it? The ubiquitous zooming and rotating examples are not convincing me at all. With some clever state logic you can zoom and rotate very efficient on unitouch systems. So... where are those usecases that apply to a phone? Small screen systems aren't just phones, as Sean has mentioned for future OpenMoko devices. Some things need more than one channel of simultaneous input, so with unitouch systems you can't use virtual controls onscreen; you have to start adding physical controls, or suffer a limited application. Off the top of my head here are a couple: * Emulating a pair of analogue thumb controllers. I remember a text input method using simultaneous input from 2 8-way hat switches too. * Audio mixer - think portable DJ apps. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Multi-touch: Many questions to one desire....
Federico wrote: So... where are those usecases that apply to a phone? maybe pressing the shift key for typing uppercase letters :P Or other chording based text entry schemes... ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Warning. Don't remove battery with usb power
On Tue, 4 Mar 2008 11:47:40 +0100 Jay Vaughan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Just a reminder to everyone *NOT* to pull out the battery while the neo has USB power. i did this. i had to get a new neo: my first one got *fried* from this. dunno what to do with the old one, frankly it bothers me having it sit there doing nothing. anyone got any suggestions? [...] Yes, send it to me. I wish that you had made this offer before we went and bought one. Regards, Gora ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Warning. Don't remove battery with usb power
Okay, thanks for the clarification. I was just concerned about hearsay on the list. Thanks for the science. -Nick On Mon, Mar 3, 2008 at 10:43 PM, Ben Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hey Nick, I've not looked at the electronics inside the neo myself but the sound is typical in the electronics world of a switchmode power supply under grate strain. I was told by someone on the irc channel that OM folks recommend you don't do it and being an electronics engineer myself i recommend this too. The sound is not something the phone should be emitting in normal operation. Nick Guenther wrote: On Mon, Mar 3, 2008 at 7:45 PM, Ben Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hey, Just a reminder to everyone *NOT* to pull out the battery while the neo has USB power. You may not have heard it but the phone gets quite angry. As evident by a quiet scream the phone emits as the components in its power system begin to vibrate closer to magic smoke land. Is this true? I haven't been worrying about the scream at all myself. how do you know the whine is from power components? -Nick ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Multi-touch: Many questions to one desire....
On Tue, Mar 4, 2008 at 8:42 AM, Michael 'Mickey' Lauer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The ubiquitous zooming and rotating examples are not convincing me at all. They seem pretty cool to me. So... where are those usecases that apply to a phone? How do you right-click on a touchscreen? The old way has been to hold down the stylus for some timeout period. But with multitouch there are other alternatives. One will probably emerge as the standard. You might even be able to detect different fingers by the shape of the contact patch, so different fingers have different actions. I'd like to play with it, but right now my choices are: buy an iphone and hack it; or build my own FTIR table. Without even thinking about specific use cases though, isn't it clear that multitouch is the superior technology? If you add a new capability and allow developers to play with it, new uses will emerge which nobody has yet thought of. Besides it's more durable: it won't mechanically wear out like resistive touchscreens do, and the screen can be glass instead of scratchable plastic. Maybe even could be a mineral crystal like a good watch. Maybe you are just making excuses based on the fact that you think multitouch is unobtanium at this point? It has been discovered that the necessary chip is made by Broadcom, with the model number BCM5974. Funny thing is, when you google that you just find a zillion copies of the same blog by someone who disassembled the iPhone (and the Air) and discovered that; I haven't found anything on Broadcom's site. So I don't understand if Apple was able to coerce them into making it exclusive. I mean, Apple bought Fingerworks and thereby got the technology, right? Then what... they said well we don't have a fab, do we? so they made an agreement with Broadcom to manufacture the chips on the condition that they are not allowed to sell them to anyone else? (Just guessing) Well how long do you think that will last? Maybe the exclusivity expires after some period of time; and Broadcom knows that either they will find a way to sell to everyone, or the competition will catch up and do it for them. Soon we will see another supplier, because it's too hot to be ignored. (It's also a good question, who made the chips for Fingerworks.) In a couple years there will probably be chintzy LCD multi-touch wristwatches or something. By that point it will be uninteresting. But FIC ought to try to feel their way around this situation: chat up the sales guys and FAE's at Broadcom and find out if there's any way to buy this chip. It reputedly costs a mere $3. I agree, the next Neo needs this capability. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: 25 native [iPhone|OpenMoko] we hope to see
On Tue, Mar 4, 2008 at 3:03 AM, Thufir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mon, 03 Mar 2008 15:23:07 +0100, kenneth marken wrote: like pidgin for im support of any kind. Now *that* is a cool idea :) probably not pidgin itself, it's not set up for a full screen display... but libpurple is the engine behind pidgin, all that's needed is a custom front-end Personally, I'd like to see a plugin for pidgin that turns it into an IM proxy... the NEO would connect in to my system here and use pidgin on it... that way I have unified logs, a single place to sign in, etc -- Jeff O|||O ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Multi-touch: Many questions to one desire....
On 3/4/08, Michael 'Mickey' Lauer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi guys, I have thought a bit about multitouch and its possible usecases and the longer I think about it the less exciting I find it on a mobile phone. The technology per se is great and I'm sure it will allow for great innovation among UI's on large monitors, tablets, and even desks. However, on small screen systems such as the Neo (or even the iPhone) -- what do you want to do with it? The ubiquitous zooming and rotating examples are not convincing me at all. With some clever state logic you can zoom and rotate very efficient on unitouch systems. So... where are those usecases that apply to a phone? :M: If there will ever be a dedicated OpenMoko gaming device, it needs a multitouch screen. However, with a phone, even if it is a fully featured pocket computer, I can't think of many things where it would be useful, either. Zooming and rotating should be very doable with one finger and some thinking. In fact, much of this thinking was already done on this list months ago. When multitouch screens become cheap and easy to get, of course one should be included in every Openmoko device. For now it seems like a very low priority thing. We haven't even begun to explore the potential of a unitouch screen! I don't want much right clicking on my phone. However, if it ever becomes useful/necessary somewhere, you can always assign it to AUX+tap. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
screen orientation sensible already developed?
After see this video, is clear that change the orientation of the screen is already in almost one openmoko relesase , doesn't care if in real alpha state or not, it exist and works almost one time. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=btY2SFVrOscNR=1 where can I find actualice information about status of development and if in almost usable state donwload to see how is done ( I barely understand on bash code, sigh ) but to I have been able to develop and successufully compile a (great qualified) mathematical simulation on C whith treads control on my old faithful jornada 680 sh3 processor at 133 Mz with 32M in a minimal a but wonderfull Jlime gnu/Linux distribution. I suppose I will be able to hack anything when this precious arribe at my hands,... So the cuestion s are: Is have been developed interaction with the accelerometers, yet?, What's the library/ies to interact that include the rotate_mokocanvas_freaking _sweet(degrees deg) function? What's the library/ies to interact that include the int Hey_dude_how_many_horizontal_degrees_you_are_right_now() function/daemon? regards - ¿Con Mascota por primera vez? - Sé un mejor Amigo Entra en Yahoo! Respuestas. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
iPhone Acquired!
Well, through some mysterious events within the past few days and some favors people owe me, I have acquired an 8GB iPhone (without the ATT contract)! Now don't think this means I am defecting to the iPhone community, by any means :-) I actually am writing for suggestions to make this iPhone helpful to the OpenMoko community. Please don't ask me to smash or demolish it...yet. I have been messing around with it the last few days, and there are a ton of usability suggestions that can and will benefit OM/Neo. Firstly, I want to say that I am very disappointed with the iPhone's touch resolution (not the viewable screen, the physical touch interface). There are other threads relating to iPhone vs. OM/Neo interfacing, but I believe we should start from ground zero now that we know we have an iPhone to play with. I am still debating lending the phone out to those who want to play with it, depending on the interest of the community, we'll see where it goes. Details will follow! -Kyle ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: 25 native [iPhone|OpenMoko] we hope to see
On Tuesday 04 March 2008 21:28:11 Jeff Andros wrote: On Tue, Mar 4, 2008 at 3:03 AM, Thufir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mon, 03 Mar 2008 15:23:07 +0100, kenneth marken wrote: like pidgin for im support of any kind. Now *that* is a cool idea :) probably not pidgin itself, it's not set up for a full screen display... but libpurple is the engine behind pidgin, all that's needed is a custom front-end Personally, I'd like to see a plugin for pidgin that turns it into an IM proxy... the NEO would connect in to my system here and use pidgin on it... that way I have unified logs, a single place to sign in, etc well, i guess one option would be a xmpp server... but i dont know about server side logs... i have been mentally toying with turning xmpp into a kind of mail server... ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: 25 native [iPhone|OpenMoko] we hope to see
Jeff Andros wrote: Personally, I'd like to see a plugin for pidgin that turns it into an IM proxy... the NEO would connect in to my system here and use pidgin on it... that way I have unified logs, a single place to sign in, etc I concur -- running Pidgin on three different platforms, it's a serious pain to copy logs and account settings to all machines. The proxy idea is an interesting thought. -id ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Audio wired Headset
Am Di 4. März 2008 schrieb Gilles Casse: Is it possible to buy a new audio wired headset from OpenMoko.inc? Otherwise, where can we get one please (OpenMoko distributor?). I mentioned to Michael at SCALE 2008 that having a 'store' where we could buy stray parts, like batteries would be a great idea. He mentioned too that selling just the debug board with JTAG connectors, etc., would make a lot of sense too. Michael, any update on this? -id ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: iPhone Acquired!
Kyle Bassett wrote: I have acquired an 8GB iPhone I actually am writing for suggestions to make this iPhone helpful to the OpenMoko community. Likewise, I won an 8GB iPod Touch (essentially the iPhone without the cell phone components), and I'd love to run OpenMoko on it at some point. I bet searching Google for hardware specs would give you enough starter information on configuring the OpenMoko build software to cross compile for the platform though? I'm not sure how you'd get/install the firmware on the device though given the only means to install other firmware is via iTunes (at least for the Touch, don't know about the iPhone). -id ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: iPhone Acquired!
On Tue, Mar 4, 2008 at 2:24 PM, Kyle Bassett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am still debating lending the phone out to those who want to play with it, depending on the interest of the community, we'll see where it goes. Sounds like Mickey needs to play with it so he can see what all the fuss is about. :-) After that, uh hack it? port Linux to it? :-) (but naturally that's in the works already) ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: iPhone Acquired!
Shawn Rutledge [EMAIL PROTECTED] escribió: On Tue, Mar 4, 2008 at 2:24 PM, Kyle Bassett wrote: I am still debating lending the phone out to those who want to play with it, depending on the interest of the community, we'll see where it goes. Sounds like Mickey needs to play with it so he can see what all the fuss is about. :-) After that, uh hack it? port Linux to it? :-) (but naturally that's in the works already) Where is information about this works??? - ¿Con Mascota por primera vez? - Sé un mejor Amigo Entra en Yahoo! Respuestas. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: iPhone Acquired!
Do you have an ATT SIM card? Does it work with your iPhone? (I know you said you didn't get an ATT contract.) I'd be very interested in whether that SIM card works in a Neo. Michael Kyle Bassett wrote: Well, through some mysterious events within the past few days and some favors people owe me, I have acquired an 8GB iPhone (without the ATT contract)! Now don't think this means I am defecting to the iPhone community, by any means :-) I actually am writing for suggestions to make this iPhone helpful to the OpenMoko community. Please don't ask me to smash or demolish it...yet. I have been messing around with it the last few days, and there are a ton of usability suggestions that can and will benefit OM/Neo. Firstly, I want to say that I am very disappointed with the iPhone's touch resolution (not the viewable screen, the physical touch interface). There are other threads relating to iPhone vs. OM/Neo interfacing, but I believe we should start from ground zero now that we know we have an iPhone to play with. I am still debating lending the phone out to those who want to play with it, depending on the interest of the community, we'll see where it goes. Details will follow! -Kyle ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: iPhone Acquired!
If I recall, the iPhone is a 3G phone, but only uses EDGE on 3G, the slowest speed. I have a friend with an iPhone, I'll ask if I can borrow his SIM to see if it'll connect to ATT on my Neo later this week. -id Michael Shiloh wrote: Do you have an ATT SIM card? Does it work with your iPhone? (I know you said you didn't get an ATT contract.) I'd be very interested in whether that SIM card works in a Neo. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: 25 native [iPhone|OpenMoko] we hope to see
When you use google as a jabber/xmpp server, you can enable server-side logs (they show up on the gmail interface). With settings, you can always user jabber and transports for other IM services, so that with one log in you get into all of them. As for logs, maybe the easiest way is to just write a simple app that gets them from the neo and merges them with the ones on your pc, shouldn't be that hard. Ivo Anjo On Tue, Mar 4, 2008 at 9:23 PM, kenneth marken [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tuesday 04 March 2008 21:28:11 Jeff Andros wrote: On Tue, Mar 4, 2008 at 3:03 AM, Thufir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mon, 03 Mar 2008 15:23:07 +0100, kenneth marken wrote: like pidgin for im support of any kind. Now *that* is a cool idea :) probably not pidgin itself, it's not set up for a full screen display... but libpurple is the engine behind pidgin, all that's needed is a custom front-end Personally, I'd like to see a plugin for pidgin that turns it into an IM proxy... the NEO would connect in to my system here and use pidgin on it... that way I have unified logs, a single place to sign in, etc well, i guess one option would be a xmpp server... but i dont know about server side logs... i have been mentally toying with turning xmpp into a kind of mail server... ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: 25 native [iPhone|OpenMoko] we hope to see
Jeff Andros ha scritto: On Tue, Mar 4, 2008 at 3:03 AM, Thufir [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mon, 03 Mar 2008 15:23:07 +0100, kenneth marken wrote: like pidgin for im support of any kind. Now *that* is a cool idea :) probably not pidgin itself, it's not set up for a full screen display... but libpurple is the engine behind pidgin, all that's needed is a custom front-end Personally, I'd like to see a plugin for pidgin that turns it into an IM proxy... the NEO would connect in to my system here and use pidgin on it... that way I have unified logs, a single place to sign in, etc I was thinking that maybe the same way should be used for chatting (and maybe more) with skype clients until an openmoko version of skype will be relesed (maybe based on that for Nokia maemo) since the closed (blah...!) skype client supports has API that maybe could help us! -- Treviño's World - Life and Linux http://www.3v1n0.net/ ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: iPhone Acquired!
On Wednesday 05 March 2008 00:08:02 ian douglas wrote: If I recall, the iPhone is a 3G phone, but only uses EDGE on 3G, the slowest speed. I have a friend with an iPhone, I'll ask if I can borrow his SIM to see if it'll connect to ATT on my Neo later this week. i would not call EDGE 3G. it is a improvement on the GRPS system, that again is built on top of GSM. 3G in that case would be UMTS, and maybe HSDPA or HDUPA. most phones that do UMTS also do GSM, and can do handovers between both networks on a call or data connection iirc. -id Michael Shiloh wrote: Do you have an ATT SIM card? Does it work with your iPhone? (I know you said you didn't get an ATT contract.) I'd be very interested in whether that SIM card works in a Neo. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Audio wired Headset
ian douglas ha scritto: Am Di 4. März 2008 schrieb Gilles Casse: Is it possible to buy a new audio wired headset from OpenMoko.inc? Otherwise, where can we get one please (OpenMoko distributor?). I mentioned to Michael at SCALE 2008 that having a 'store' where we could buy stray parts, like batteries would be a great idea. He mentioned too that selling just the debug board with JTAG connectors, etc., would make a lot of sense too. I simply agree... JTAG for example, could be needed for standard users only after bricking the device, and new/extra batteries will be needed soon! -- Treviño's World - Life and Linux http://www.3v1n0.net/ ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: 25 native [iPhone|OpenMoko] we hope to see
so one could set up a xmpp server at home, turn on server side logging and some transports to other networks as needed, and then just have a xmpp client on the neo that connects to it? or have google done some kind of custom mod for their xmpp server to get this to work? would be nice if the logs showed up in a imap connection ;) hmm, a imap/xmpp bridge, now thats a thought. On Wednesday 05 March 2008 00:22:56 Ivo Anjo wrote: When you use google as a jabber/xmpp server, you can enable server-side logs (they show up on the gmail interface). With settings, you can always user jabber and transports for other IM services, so that with one log in you get into all of them. As for logs, maybe the easiest way is to just write a simple app that gets them from the neo and merges them with the ones on your pc, shouldn't be that hard. Ivo Anjo On Tue, Mar 4, 2008 at 9:23 PM, kenneth marken [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tuesday 04 March 2008 21:28:11 Jeff Andros wrote: On Tue, Mar 4, 2008 at 3:03 AM, Thufir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mon, 03 Mar 2008 15:23:07 +0100, kenneth marken wrote: like pidgin for im support of any kind. Now *that* is a cool idea :) probably not pidgin itself, it's not set up for a full screen display... but libpurple is the engine behind pidgin, all that's needed is a custom front-end Personally, I'd like to see a plugin for pidgin that turns it into an IM proxy... the NEO would connect in to my system here and use pidgin on it... that way I have unified logs, a single place to sign in, etc well, i guess one option would be a xmpp server... but i dont know about server side logs... i have been mentally toying with turning xmpp into a kind of mail server... ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Audio wired Headset
Marco Trevisan (Treviño) wrote: I simply agree... JTAG for example, could be needed for standard users only after bricking the device, and new/extra batteries will be needed soon! So: - batteries - headphones - JTAG interfaces - sylus - stylus batteries? I'm not sure it's economically worthwihle trying to resell microSD cards since that's a well-saturated market, though the convenience of being able to purchase them while purchasing other items might be nice? Any other ideas? -id ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Multi-touch: Many questions to one desire....
joerg ha scritto: I'm investigating to squeeze some multi-touch properties out of the GTA02 4wire-resistor touchscreen, by hacking the basics and probing the ts in a couple non-recommended completely different manners. There still is a little hope... What's your hope exactly? Do you have some secrets to share? :P However this is not meant to distract attention from discussion of a true multi-ts for GTA03. I think this should be a capacitive one. I do agree... -- Treviño's World - Life and Linux http://www.3v1n0.net/ ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Multi-touch: Many questions to one desire....
Federico ha scritto: So... where are those usecases that apply to a phone? maybe pressing the shift key for typing uppercase letters :P Not so useful imho... We don't write so quickly on small-screen based devices to need a combination-input. For istance, the iPhone has not a such feature (its ultra-sensitive [bad] keyboard only takes a touch a time also for the shift key). -- Treviño's World - Life and Linux http://www.3v1n0.net/ ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: iPhone Acquired!
On Tuesday 04 March 2008 22:38:52 Shawn Rutledge wrote: On Tue, Mar 4, 2008 at 2:24 PM, Kyle Bassett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am still debating lending the phone out to those who want to play with it, depending on the interest of the community, we'll see where it goes. Sounds like Mickey needs to play with it so he can see what all the fuss is about. :-) ;-) Well, I have already seen it once and was impressed by the industrial and mechanical design. I was not so much impressed by the actual software though, the FOSS community has all the tools in the pipeline, we just need to get our act together and compile them to a kick-ass framework and some innovative apps (not forgetting bread and butter of course). The software technology is there and waiting for us... :M: ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Multi-touch: Many questions to one desire....
Ortwin Regel ha scritto: If there will ever be a dedicated OpenMoko gaming device, it needs a multitouch screen. Well, yes I think it won't be possible to run games with an on-screen virtual gamepad as the iPhone/iPodTouch does. Do I am wrong? However, with a phone, even if it is a fully featured pocket computer, I can't think of many things where it would be useful, either. Zooming and rotating should be very doable with one finger and some thinking. In fact, much of this thinking was already done on this list months ago. I do agree, but for me these rotate and resize features imho aren't so needed as soon they're cool to see. Also using a touch-only screen they don't loose their usability: the resize, mostly, could be done simply with a scroll, while the rotation using the gimp-way (put a placeholder on the rotating fulcrum tapping, then use a finger dragging the image...). I can't find more things that really need a multi-touch screen, since I won't paint on it and I neither will do a collaborative work... :P Then I'd like to know more infos about *tapping* in Neo. I mean, in my notebooks with Synaptics touchpads I can easily use more than a finger to play some useful actions like: - Left clik with a finger tapping - Middle clik with two fingers tapping - Right clik with three fingers tapping - Vertical / Horizontal scroll with two fingers sliding [1] Well, are these features available on GTA02 too? In fact, if the answer would be yes, we could easily use the multi-fingers tapping/scrolling features to control the phone in a more comfortable way (for example allowing right-clicks no more pressure-time based, or allowing operations on images like the ones I mentioned above). Bye Treviño [1] http://tinyurl.com/2sawey (iMac like) PS: That's so strange (and funny), today exactly few minutes before the topic was started I wandered about multi-touching in Neo and how it was used in iPhone, reading and looking much of resources... :P -- Treviño's World - Life and Linux http://www.3v1n0.net/ ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: iPhone Acquired!
kenneth marken ha scritto: On Wednesday 05 March 2008 00:08:02 ian douglas wrote: If I recall, the iPhone is a 3G phone, but only uses EDGE on 3G, the slowest speed. I have a friend with an iPhone, I'll ask if I can borrow his SIM to see if it'll connect to ATT on my Neo later this week. i would not call EDGE 3G. it is a improvement on the GRPS system, that again is built on top of GSM. In fact, generally, it's called 2.5G :P -- Treviño's World - Life and Linux http://www.3v1n0.net/ ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: iPhone Acquired!
On Wednesday 05 March 2008 01:28:03 Marco Trevisan (Treviño) wrote: kenneth marken ha scritto: On Wednesday 05 March 2008 00:08:02 ian douglas wrote: If I recall, the iPhone is a 3G phone, but only uses EDGE on 3G, the slowest speed. I have a friend with an iPhone, I'll ask if I can borrow his SIM to see if it'll connect to ATT on my Neo later this week. i would not call EDGE 3G. it is a improvement on the GRPS system, that again is built on top of GSM. In fact, generally, it's called 2.5G :P true, but i kinda dislike those G designations as the are very non-informative. i keep seeing the local press refering to hsdpa as super-3G, but thats not given. as such, its much better to read the actual product specs as they at least list the proper designations. and just to deliver a small kick towards apple, thats why i hate hearing about their superdrive. hell, even their refreshing of products throw in a wrench at times. sure someone is using a macbook pro, but what generation macbook pro?! but then im a geek. to most the under-the-hood stuff will fly by them at mach 16. they just want their gizmo to do what they ask of it without fail or hickups. i guess its the same thing with cars. some love to talk about CCM's, torque and all that, while others just want it to drive them flawlessly from a to b, and look good while doing so. i just wish that computer stats where as fashionable as car stats... ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
GTA02v6: any rumor?
It has been mentioned on svn logs: http://tinyurl.com/2wfsmk What will be the differences with GTA02v5? Maybe also echo audio fixes [1]? I'm becoming every day more curious about this new device...! :P [1] http://tinyurl.com/2j5ca7 -- Treviño's World - Life and Linux http://www.3v1n0.net/ ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Multi-touch: Many questions to one desire....
On Tue, Mar 4, 2008 at 5:25 PM, Marco Trevisan (Treviño) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Also using a touch-only screen they don't loose their usability: the resize, mostly, could be done simply with a scroll, while the rotation This is kindof like saying what do you need a mouse for, your keyboard has arrow keys doesn't it? (or a control key... you could just move the cursor with control-k, control-l, etc.) The whole point is you don't need to use up any real estate with scroll bars: an image can fill the whole screen and yet you can still interact with it. Dragging/panning seems more intuitive, too... it's just that with such long experience with computers, we've gotten used to the status quo. As for pinching to zoom, the only thing which makes me uncertain is the alleged existence of a patent on it... either it will be licensed cheaply, or stricken down in court, or Apple will just let it go unchallenged (maybe at least in the case of open-source software), or non-Apple devices can be sold with gesture programmability, and it's up to the end user to define what it is that the pinch gesture will do. Or if Apple really succeeds in keeping that gesture for themselves, then it cannot be a standard, because other gestures will have to be invented. But the existence of the original Mac did not prevent GEM or AmigaOS or Windows from being developed, either, despite Apple's attempts to claim ownership of some ideas. They have no hope of preventing multi-touch itself from becoming the accepted mainstream, and then resistive touchscreens are probably going to be seen as obsolete. using the gimp-way (put a placeholder on the rotating fulcrum tapping, then use a finger dragging the image...). That requires at least two steps, and involves more screen clutter (at least a separate fulcrum object). Gimp takes a bit of time to learn, even if you are already familiar with Photoshop or (gods forbid) PC Paint, like I was on my first PC, without a mouse, back in 1988. :-) (yes I could draw decent monochrome pictures with only the keyboard. I sure was glad when that guy whose lawn I was mowing finally gave me a surplus optical mouse, though.) Interaction design always has room for improvement, and major new technologies like this really open up the possibilities. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: iPhone Acquired!
I do have an ATT sim card that came with the phone, but it is not activated... It is recognized by the iPhone as an ATT card. I could put the SIM card in the Neo and see if it is recognized, but I don't have ATT service for it. -Kyle On Tue, Mar 4, 2008 at 5:56 PM, Michael Shiloh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Do you have an ATT SIM card? Does it work with your iPhone? (I know you said you didn't get an ATT contract.) I'd be very interested in whether that SIM card works in a Neo. Michael Kyle Bassett wrote: Well, through some mysterious events within the past few days and some favors people owe me, I have acquired an 8GB iPhone (without the ATT contract)! Now don't think this means I am defecting to the iPhone community, by any means :-) I actually am writing for suggestions to make this iPhone helpful to the OpenMoko community. Please don't ask me to smash or demolish it...yet. I have been messing around with it the last few days, and there are a ton of usability suggestions that can and will benefit OM/Neo. Firstly, I want to say that I am very disappointed with the iPhone's touch resolution (not the viewable screen, the physical touch interface). There are other threads relating to iPhone vs. OM/Neo interfacing, but I believe we should start from ground zero now that we know we have an iPhone to play with. I am still debating lending the phone out to those who want to play with it, depending on the interest of the community, we'll see where it goes. Details will follow! -Kyle ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: GTA02v6: any rumor?
I'm using qtopia on my gta01 with the fix described here: http://tinyurl.com/2t5mdg and it sounds fine. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Marco Trevisan (Treviño) Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2008 6:05 PM To: community@lists.openmoko.org Subject: GTA02v6: any rumor? It has been mentioned on svn logs: http://tinyurl.com/2wfsmk What will be the differences with GTA02v5? Maybe also echo audio fixes [1]? I'm becoming every day more curious about this new device...! :P [1] http://tinyurl.com/2j5ca7 -- Treviño's World - Life and Linux http://www.3v1n0.net/ ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Multi-touch: Many questions to one desire....
Am Mi 5. März 2008 schrieb Marco Trevisan (Treviño): joerg ha scritto: I'm investigating to squeeze some multi-touch properties out of the GTA02 4wire-resistor touchscreen, by hacking the basics and probing the ts in a couple non-recommended completely different manners. There still is a little hope... What's your hope exactly? Do you have some secrets to share? :P Well, it's basically a 4wire (2 metal coated transparent plastic foils) design: you apply + and - at X+ X- which creates a linear voltage gradient over the one foil, and you messure the voltage at any of both Y of the point where the second foil touches the first. (and vice versa xy, for other coordinate). So much for the classics. However there are a couple of other permutations to apply + and minus and/or leave open and where to probe for voltage, given you have 4 wires and 3 states (+,-,probe+open) for each one of the 4 to choose from. Hard to explain without some graphics showing a simplified circuit diagram. And then, if all this fails, there still remains the dynamic approach (pulse-response), for there are two planes creating a R-C-R-C-R... network, resembling somewhat like e.g. a coax cable. You know you can analyze coax (10Base2 ethernet, even BaseT) for position of sharp bends with an analysis of pulse response. Somewhat like hitting a drum and telling from resulting sound where there are the 2 stones on the drum membrane. All this *VERY* theoretical anyway for now, for i got scope etc, but even don't have real hw to test with it :-( (who was the guy with a fried NEO and no idea what to do with it? I had a real use for it, even better when it's broken), and i was too lazy (or too poorly gifted) to do the math yet. What i expect/hope: At least i now got diagrams, so i know what _can_ or _must_not_ be done with given hw in GTA01/02. Just dreaming for now... ;-) But i'm quite sure it's feasible to get at least kinda force feedback for the single touch. Maybe more... Amazing what 12 formulae with 5 (10) unknown variables(R) can reveal (ok, this are just numbers for instance, didn't the math yet). When it comes to dynamic pulse response analysis - with all sorts of filters and the whole scary stuff (any volunteers?), we probably even get the weight of user-C touching the screen ;-) In an ideal world. A/D converters of CPU to sample the response are not _so_ bad. All this [patent pending, (C), smells like me etc]:jOERG ;-). At least mention me, and send me a beer each day, and this is prior art. Ehrrm. This week CeBIT, let's see what's my schedule for next week. cheers jOERG ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
