Re: Video of Qt 4.4 on Neo1973: brings iPhone like graphics
On Wed, 23 Apr 2008 22:08:23 -0700 Shawn Rutledge [EMAIL PROTECTED] babbled: On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 6:07 AM, Marco Trevisan (Treviño) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Just a question: the widgets shown are they running on X? I would say not, because you can see the blinking text-console cursor in the upper-left corner. I have run into the same thing when doing framebuffer graphics: wasn't sure how to turn it off. you have to create a new vt and own it. you need to be root to do this. i.e. int vt_num = 7; ioctl(tty0_fd, VT_OPENQRY, vt_num); then the usutal kdgetmode/vt_getmode - (sore current fb state) kdsetmode to kd_graphics mode. etc. (set up vt switching on sigusr1/2 etc.) -- Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: What US plans are people using?
Rivera wrote: How do you tell which band the phone is currently connecting to? Someone stated in the last day or so that there's an AT command you can send to the Neo's modem to tell which service. how did you know the Blackjack 2 would only connect to the lower freq? The basis of my assumption is that only the higher-power 850MHz frequency could make it through/around the concrete of our old apartment building, especially since the Neo could not connect indoors on ATT whatsoever, but my Blackjack 2 could connect all the time, no matter what. Also, the radio signal from the Blackjack 2 would cause any speakers (computer, radio, tv) to buzz VERY loudly at the old apartment, but at the new apartment where it shows me the 3G icon all the time instead of the EDGE icon, it doesn't buzz any of our speakers even a tiny bit. I don't know if there's any correlation between only seeing the EDGE icon appear on my Blackjack 2 while indoors at the old apartment and having the phone switch to 3G while outside as to which frequency I was connecting on. I see from one source that EDGE can work on both 850MHz and 1900MHz, the two frequencies used by ATT, so perhaps I am still a bit confused about it. I guess I thought EDGE only used 850MHz and 3G was 1900MHz but I see from online documentation that that's not correct. -id ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Video of Qt 4.4 on Neo1973: brings iPhone like graphics
On Thursday 24 April 2008 05:52:52 Carsten Haitzler wrote: On Wed, 23 Apr 2008 18:28:40 +0200 thomasg [EMAIL PROTECTED] babbled: yup. those 7m/sec (that's write to video ram) is also shared with SD card IO. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to me that this means it should be impossible to playback videos in full-screen from an SD card on a gta02. 640*480*25 = 768 and that's with 8bpp. Has anyone tested video playback on a GTA02 yet ? ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: What US plans are people using?
I have a further question, perhaps best for someone who knows something about how the cellphone system operates: I notice that with my T-Mobile SIM card, my GTA01 camps on the home network, but my ATT card shows roaming. Is it possible that in roaming mode, the system keeps scanning and tries to connect on the home network? Would this explain the oscillation problem that Sean Chiang describes? Michael ian douglas wrote: Rivera wrote: How do you tell which band the phone is currently connecting to? Someone stated in the last day or so that there's an AT command you can send to the Neo's modem to tell which service. how did you know the Blackjack 2 would only connect to the lower freq? The basis of my assumption is that only the higher-power 850MHz frequency could make it through/around the concrete of our old apartment building, especially since the Neo could not connect indoors on ATT whatsoever, but my Blackjack 2 could connect all the time, no matter what. Also, the radio signal from the Blackjack 2 would cause any speakers (computer, radio, tv) to buzz VERY loudly at the old apartment, but at the new apartment where it shows me the 3G icon all the time instead of the EDGE icon, it doesn't buzz any of our speakers even a tiny bit. I don't know if there's any correlation between only seeing the EDGE icon appear on my Blackjack 2 while indoors at the old apartment and having the phone switch to 3G while outside as to which frequency I was connecting on. I see from one source that EDGE can work on both 850MHz and 1900MHz, the two frequencies used by ATT, so perhaps I am still a bit confused about it. I guess I thought EDGE only used 850MHz and 3G was 1900MHz but I see from online documentation that that's not correct. -id ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Video of Qt 4.4 on Neo1973: brings iPhone like graphics
On Thu, 24 Apr 2008 09:24:26 +0200 polz [EMAIL PROTECTED] babbled: On Thursday 24 April 2008 05:52:52 Carsten Haitzler wrote: On Wed, 23 Apr 2008 18:28:40 +0200 thomasg [EMAIL PROTECTED] babbled: yup. those 7m/sec (that's write to video ram) is also shared with SD card IO. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to me that this means it should be impossible to playback videos in full-screen from an SD card on a gta02. 640*480*25 = 768 and that's with 8bpp. Has anyone tested video playback on a GTA02 yet ? correct. yuv will be w * h * 1.5 bytes for 1 frame (standard video yuv). so 3240x240*1.5*30 (320x240 @ 30fps) = 3.4m/sec - BUT... when u are copying you have ZERO cpu cycles to decode the next video frame. so that means 50% of cpu cycles will be spent ONLY copying video data to video ram. the other 50% u have left to decode the mpeg1/2/4 or whatever video in system ram to a yuv buffer. i would say this is the realistic highest resolution you will get. [EMAIL PROTECTED] is the MOST you will get (6.9m/sec), but u have ZERO (or almost) cpu cycles to actually decode the video into yuv. remember here i am assuming use of xvideo and the yuv to rgb conversion and scaling on the glamo - which xglamo does support. if you do software yuv-rgb + scale then its even less fun. with software. the best u will get is 11fps at 640x480 - and this is NO cpu cycles to actually decode the video, convert it to 16bit rgb and scale. in reality i expect you to see 2-5fps in this scenario, maybe eve 1fps. this is ONLY playback if the video data is already in ram - ie the mpeg data is cached. if it is read off internal flash you will pay an IO cost - but it's not shared with the glamo bus. if it is on SD card - you will basically have to now share the IO between SD and graphics. i believe the graphics IO takes precedence over SD card IO, so as long as u keep the glamo gfx bus busy, sd will be on hold until u stop. then some sd io can get through. with the glamo you need to be careful what you do and how you do it. if you can keep something entirely within the glamo - it should be ok. so things like uploaded pixmaps and then blitting them around is ok. video decode is another matter entirely. the glamo has an mpeg4 decoder on it - but we don't have any api to access that directly/sanely and just feed it an mpeg4 stream. any other codec has to be done on the cpu anyway and uploaded across the bus as yuv data. -- Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: (no subject)
Uau!! I'll never expect that kind of conversation in the ml :) Let's see were it's going On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 11:15 PM, flexd [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That was my bad, opened a installer for a program (totally legal i swear! :p), after several virus checks, yet it manages to try to send emails everywhere :( Thought avast had stopped it from sending, apparently not. So feel free to send hate mail to that gmail address :P Kristoffer James Olney skrev: I always find it better to cook it before eating it. but either way it's good. 2008/4/23 Michael Shiloh [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Surely my dog will have something to say about this thread... Tim Shannon wrote: Oh come on! You're just disagreeing because you have no idea what we're talking about. On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 3:04 PM, Peter Abplanalp [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 1:46 PM, Flemming Richter Mikkelsen [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 4/23/08, Denis Shulyaka [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 2008/4/23, Casey G [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Yes. I agree:) not me! i'm totally against it! ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org mailto:community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- ___ o0 Methril 0o ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Video Playback virtually impossible on Neo Freerunner? (Re: Video of Qt 4.4 on Neo1973: brings iPhone like graphics)
As I understood Video playback will be virtually impossible on the freerunner, at least from the sd card (which is the only sensible location to store videos on the neo ftm). Please correct me if I misunderstood. Well that could have the potential to kill the Freerunner as consumer product. Just because virtually every other 100$ phone does it which is shaping the consumers' expectations. And while I do not expect to use this feature more than a couple times a month it would make me reconsider using it as my main phone (I'll be using it as development platform, so it doesn't matter for now). I think that this design should be reconsidered as soon as possible if Openmoko really wants to go into the consumer market. PS: What about streaming media from the net? Any musings and/or actual experiences with that? If I interpreted Carsten right 640x480 video will display at 5-10 fps at best, right? Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) schrieb: On Thu, 24 Apr 2008 09:24:26 +0200 polz [EMAIL PROTECTED] babbled: On Thursday 24 April 2008 05:52:52 Carsten Haitzler wrote: On Wed, 23 Apr 2008 18:28:40 +0200 thomasg [EMAIL PROTECTED] babbled: yup. those 7m/sec (that's write to video ram) is also shared with SD card IO. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to me that this means it should be impossible to playback videos in full-screen from an SD card on a gta02. 640*480*25 = 768 and that's with 8bpp. Has anyone tested video playback on a GTA02 yet ? correct. yuv will be w * h * 1.5 bytes for 1 frame (standard video yuv). so 3240x240*1.5*30 (320x240 @ 30fps) = 3.4m/sec - BUT... when u are copying you have ZERO cpu cycles to decode the next video frame. so that means 50% of cpu cycles will be spent ONLY copying video data to video ram. the other 50% u have left to decode the mpeg1/2/4 or whatever video in system ram to a yuv buffer. i would say this is the realistic highest resolution you will get. [EMAIL PROTECTED] is the MOST you will get (6.9m/sec), but u have ZERO (or almost) cpu cycles to actually decode the video into yuv. remember here i am assuming use of xvideo and the yuv to rgb conversion and scaling on the glamo - which xglamo does support. if you do software yuv-rgb + scale then its even less fun. with software. the best u will get is 11fps at 640x480 - and this is NO cpu cycles to actually decode the video, convert it to 16bit rgb and scale. in reality i expect you to see 2-5fps in this scenario, maybe eve 1fps. this is ONLY playback if the video data is already in ram - ie the mpeg data is cached. if it is read off internal flash you will pay an IO cost - but it's not shared with the glamo bus. if it is on SD card - you will basically have to now share the IO between SD and graphics. i believe the graphics IO takes precedence over SD card IO, so as long as u keep the glamo gfx bus busy, sd will be on hold until u stop. then some sd io can get through. with the glamo you need to be careful what you do and how you do it. if you can keep something entirely within the glamo - it should be ok. so things like uploaded pixmaps and then blitting them around is ok. video decode is another matter entirely. the glamo has an mpeg4 decoder on it - but we don't have any api to access that directly/sanely and just feed it an mpeg4 stream. any other codec has to be done on the cpu anyway and uploaded across the bus as yuv data. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: (no subject)
You see, this is a problem with Windows... flexd wrote: That was my bad, opened a installer for a program (totally legal i swear! :p), after several virus checks, yet it manages to try to send emails everywhere :( Thought avast had stopped it from sending, apparently not. So feel free to send hate mail to that gmail address :P Kristoffer James Olney skrev: I always find it better to cook it before eating it. but either way it's good. 2008/4/23 Michael Shiloh [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Surely my dog will have something to say about this thread... Tim Shannon wrote: Oh come on! You're just disagreeing because you have no idea what we're talking about. On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 3:04 PM, Peter Abplanalp [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 1:46 PM, Flemming Richter Mikkelsen [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 4/23/08, Denis Shulyaka [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 2008/4/23, Casey G [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]: Yes. I agree:) not me! i'm totally against it! ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org mailto:community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Video of Qt 4.4 on Neo1973: brings iPhone like graphics
According to the SD problem: As far as I know emdete has noticed exactly what you assume. Reading from the SD while using the display heavily (in his case this was a VGA Edje/Evas gui) isn't really possible - the display will work, but the SD won't get any bandwith, so transfer will be extremely slow or stop completely. On 4/24/08, The Rasterman Carsten Haitzler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, 24 Apr 2008 09:24:26 +0200 polz [EMAIL PROTECTED] babbled: On Thursday 24 April 2008 05:52:52 Carsten Haitzler wrote: On Wed, 23 Apr 2008 18:28:40 +0200 thomasg [EMAIL PROTECTED] babbled: yup. those 7m/sec (that's write to video ram) is also shared with SD card IO. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to me that this means it should be impossible to playback videos in full-screen from an SD card on a gta02. 640*480*25 = 768 and that's with 8bpp. Has anyone tested video playback on a GTA02 yet ? correct. yuv will be w * h * 1.5 bytes for 1 frame (standard video yuv). so 3240x240*1.5*30 (320x240 @ 30fps) = 3.4m/sec - BUT... when u are copying you have ZERO cpu cycles to decode the next video frame. so that means 50% of cpu cycles will be spent ONLY copying video data to video ram. the other 50% u have left to decode the mpeg1/2/4 or whatever video in system ram to a yuv buffer. i would say this is the realistic highest resolution you will get. [EMAIL PROTECTED] is the MOST you will get (6.9m/sec), but u have ZERO (or almost) cpu cycles to actually decode the video into yuv. remember here i am assuming use of xvideo and the yuv to rgb conversion and scaling on the glamo - which xglamo does support. if you do software yuv-rgb + scale then its even less fun. with software. the best u will get is 11fps at 640x480 - and this is NO cpu cycles to actually decode the video, convert it to 16bit rgb and scale. in reality i expect you to see 2-5fps in this scenario, maybe eve 1fps. this is ONLY playback if the video data is already in ram - ie the mpeg data is cached. if it is read off internal flash you will pay an IO cost - but it's not shared with the glamo bus. if it is on SD card - you will basically have to now share the IO between SD and graphics. i believe the graphics IO takes precedence over SD card IO, so as long as u keep the glamo gfx bus busy, sd will be on hold until u stop. then some sd io can get through. with the glamo you need to be careful what you do and how you do it. if you can keep something entirely within the glamo - it should be ok. so things like uploaded pixmaps and then blitting them around is ok. video decode is another matter entirely. the glamo has an mpeg4 decoder on it - but we don't have any api to access that directly/sanely and just feed it an mpeg4 stream. any other codec has to be done on the cpu anyway and uploaded across the bus as yuv data. -- Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: Video Playback virtually impossible on Neo Freerunner? (Re: Video of Qt 4.4 on Neo1973: brings iPhone like graphics)
I'm gonna still buy the freerunner when as soon as it become avialble and I will work as hard as my non-linux-freak life let me do it. But I have to admit than this video limitation in the neo's video has dissapoint me very deeply. The good news is that I have been disapointed BEFORE I have bought the neo and even Before the freerunner is released so OM gives me the oportunity to decide and evaluate if this is a stopper to buy this phone or not. Can any of the core team confirm this video limitations? --- Christoph Witzany [EMAIL PROTECTED] escribió: As I understood Video playback will be virtually impossible on the freerunner, at least from the sd card (which is the only sensible location to store videos on the neo ftm). Please correct me if I misunderstood. Well that could have the potential to kill the Freerunner as consumer product. Just because virtually every other 100$ phone does it which is shaping the consumers' expectations. And while I do not expect to use this feature more than a couple times a month it would make me reconsider using it as my main phone (I'll be using it as development platform, so it doesn't matter for now). I think that this design should be reconsidered as soon as possible if Openmoko really wants to go into the consumer market. PS: What about streaming media from the net? Any musings and/or actual experiences with that? If I interpreted Carsten right 640x480 video will display at 5-10 fps at best, right? Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) schrieb: On Thu, 24 Apr 2008 09:24:26 +0200 polz [EMAIL PROTECTED] babbled: On Thursday 24 April 2008 05:52:52 Carsten Haitzler wrote: On Wed, 23 Apr 2008 18:28:40 +0200 thomasg [EMAIL PROTECTED] babbled: yup. those 7m/sec (that's write to video ram) is also shared with SD card IO. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to me that this means it should be impossible to playback videos in full-screen from an SD card on a gta02. 640*480*25 = 768 and that's with 8bpp. Has anyone tested video playback on a GTA02 yet ? correct. yuv will be w * h * 1.5 bytes for 1 frame (standard video yuv). so 3240x240*1.5*30 (320x240 @ 30fps) = 3.4m/sec - BUT... when u are copying you have ZERO cpu cycles to decode the next video frame. so that means 50% of cpu cycles will be spent ONLY copying video data to video ram. the other 50% u have left to decode the mpeg1/2/4 or whatever video in system ram to a yuv buffer. i would say this is the realistic highest resolution you will get. [EMAIL PROTECTED] is the MOST you will get (6.9m/sec), but u have ZERO (or almost) cpu cycles to actually decode the video into yuv. remember here i am assuming use of xvideo and the yuv to rgb conversion and scaling on the glamo - which xglamo does support. if you do software yuv-rgb + scale then its even less fun. with software. the best u will get is 11fps at 640x480 - and this is NO cpu cycles to actually decode the video, convert it to 16bit rgb and scale. in reality i expect you to see 2-5fps in this scenario, maybe eve 1fps. this is ONLY playback if the video data is already in ram - ie the mpeg data is cached. if it is read off internal flash you will pay an IO cost - but it's not shared with the glamo bus. if it is on SD card - you will basically have to now share the IO between SD and graphics. i believe the graphics IO takes precedence over SD card IO, so as long as u keep the glamo gfx bus busy, sd will be on hold until u stop. then some sd io can get through. with the glamo you need to be careful what you do and how you do it. if you can keep something entirely within the glamo - it should be ok. so things like uploaded pixmaps and then blitting them around is ok. video decode is another matter entirely. the glamo has an mpeg4 decoder on it - but we don't have any api to access that directly/sanely and just feed it an mpeg4 stream. any other codec has to be done on the cpu anyway and uploaded across the bus as yuv data. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community __ Enviado desde Correo Yahoo! La bandeja de entrada más inteligente. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Video Playback virtually impossible on Neo Freerunner? (Re: Video of Qt 4.4 on Neo1973: brings iPhone like graphics)
As written by raster, you can play video at lower resolution. Also implementing support for mpeg4 should help a great deal. David Samblas Martinez pravi: I'm gonna still buy the freerunner when as soon as it become avialble and I will work as hard as my non-linux-freak life let me do it. But I have to admit than this video limitation in the neo's video has dissapoint me very deeply. The good news is that I have been disapointed BEFORE I have bought the neo and even Before the freerunner is released so OM gives me the oportunity to decide and evaluate if this is a stopper to buy this phone or not. Can any of the core team confirm this video limitations? --- Christoph Witzany [EMAIL PROTECTED] escribió: As I understood Video playback will be virtually impossible on the freerunner, at least from the sd card (which is the only sensible location to store videos on the neo ftm). Please correct me if I misunderstood. Well that could have the potential to kill the Freerunner as consumer product. Just because virtually every other 100$ phone does it which is shaping the consumers' expectations. And while I do not expect to use this feature more than a couple times a month it would make me reconsider using it as my main phone (I'll be using it as development platform, so it doesn't matter for now). I think that this design should be reconsidered as soon as possible if Openmoko really wants to go into the consumer market. PS: What about streaming media from the net? Any musings and/or actual experiences with that? If I interpreted Carsten right 640x480 video will display at 5-10 fps at best, right? Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) schrieb: On Thu, 24 Apr 2008 09:24:26 +0200 polz [EMAIL PROTECTED] babbled: On Thursday 24 April 2008 05:52:52 Carsten Haitzler wrote: On Wed, 23 Apr 2008 18:28:40 +0200 thomasg [EMAIL PROTECTED] babbled: yup. those 7m/sec (that's write to video ram) is also shared with SD card IO. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to me that this means it should be impossible to playback videos in full-screen from an SD card on a gta02. 640*480*25 = 768 and that's with 8bpp. Has anyone tested video playback on a GTA02 yet ? correct. yuv will be w * h * 1.5 bytes for 1 frame (standard video yuv). so 3240x240*1.5*30 (320x240 @ 30fps) = 3.4m/sec - BUT... when u are copying you have ZERO cpu cycles to decode the next video frame. so that means 50% of cpu cycles will be spent ONLY copying video data to video ram. the other 50% u have left to decode the mpeg1/2/4 or whatever video in system ram to a yuv buffer. i would say this is the realistic highest resolution you will get. [EMAIL PROTECTED] is the MOST you will get (6.9m/sec), but u have ZERO (or almost) cpu cycles to actually decode the video into yuv. remember here i am assuming use of xvideo and the yuv to rgb conversion and scaling on the glamo - which xglamo does support. if you do software yuv-rgb + scale then its even less fun. with software. the best u will get is 11fps at 640x480 - and this is NO cpu cycles to actually decode the video, convert it to 16bit rgb and scale. in reality i expect you to see 2-5fps in this scenario, maybe eve 1fps. this is ONLY playback if the video data is already in ram - ie the mpeg data is cached. if it is read off internal flash you will pay an IO cost - but it's not shared with the glamo bus. if it is on SD card - you will basically have to now share the IO between SD and graphics. i believe the graphics IO takes precedence over SD card IO, so as long as u keep the glamo gfx bus busy, sd will be on hold until u stop. then some sd io can get through. with the glamo you need to be careful what you do and how you do it. if you can keep something entirely within the glamo - it should be ok. so things like uploaded pixmaps and then blitting them around is ok. video decode is another matter entirely. the glamo has an mpeg4 decoder on it - but we don't have any api to access that directly/sanely and just feed it an mpeg4 stream. any other codec has to be done on the cpu anyway and uploaded across the bus as yuv data. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community __ Enviado desde Correo Yahoo! La bandeja de entrada más inteligente. ___ Openmoko community
Re: Video Playback virtually impossible on Neo Freerunner? (Re: Video of Qt 4.4 on Neo1973: brings iPhone like graphics)
On Thu, 24 Apr 2008 11:19:37 +0200 Christoph Witzany [EMAIL PROTECTED] babbled: As I understood Video playback will be virtually impossible on the freerunner, at least from the sd card (which is the only sensible location to store videos on the neo ftm). Please correct me if I misunderstood. that is quite possible. 320x240 video would be sane possibly if the source is internal flash instead of SD or maybe 802.11. Well that could have the potential to kill the Freerunner as consumer product. Just because virtually every other 100$ phone does it which is shaping the consumers' expectations. And while I do not expect to use this feature more than a couple times a month it would make me reconsider using it as my main phone (I'll be using it as development platform, so it doesn't matter for now). well we could quietly say nothing and wait until you find out, but my position is just to put the facts out as-is and give you my best interpretation of them. remember every other $100 phone is *NOT* $100 - it is $300 or $400 or $500 - it is SUBSIDISED by the carrier. when you sing up saying you will pay the telco money for the next 12 or 24 months, they subsidies the phone. when the carrier tells the phone maker disable this feature so the customer HAS to pay us to send their photos via email, instead of just using usb or sd-cards they subsidise it further hoping/knowin they will xtort more money from you in services etc. etc. if you want the REAL cost - ask the carrier what you would pay for the phone with NO contract, or find a shop that sells the same phone unlocked. secondly these $100 phones are mostly QVGA, not VGA. we have to fill/drive 4 times as many pixels as they do. thirdly - they don't (mostly) offer wifi. in fact they don't do a lot the freerunner does. an actual $100 phone (that is $100 when unlocked) does very very very very little - the $100 ones u think of are actually much more. I think that this design should be reconsidered as soon as possible if Openmoko really wants to go into the consumer market. it can't be. it's too late in production. freerunner is as-is. with the good and the ugly. we are open about it and at least give you the option of doing something about it, and knowing in advance all the gory details. PS: What about streaming media from the net? Any musings and/or actual experiences with that? If I interpreted Carsten right 640x480 video will display at 5-10 fps at best, right? you will be able to manage [EMAIL PROTECTED] i expect streamed video. of course if you lower the framerate you can increase the resolution. you can do the math (with 15fps you get 2x the pixels - [EMAIL PROTECTED] for example, [EMAIL PROTECTED] etc.). again - we could do better if we limited ourselves to just mpeg4 (which is what almost all phones do - they do only 1 codec or maybe 2), but the problem here is that xv does not provide a way to do this sanely (stream just mpeg4 data to x so it decodes in hardware). the graphics chip (glamo) can decode mpeg4 itself, but we dont have the time or resources to do this properly ourselves. you are free to do it yourself as we provide all the code, but you would need to reverse-engineer the graphics chip or hope that graphics documentation can be made public. right now you need an NDA to see the docs. Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) schrieb: On Thu, 24 Apr 2008 09:24:26 +0200 polz [EMAIL PROTECTED] babbled: On Thursday 24 April 2008 05:52:52 Carsten Haitzler wrote: On Wed, 23 Apr 2008 18:28:40 +0200 thomasg [EMAIL PROTECTED] babbled: yup. those 7m/sec (that's write to video ram) is also shared with SD card IO. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to me that this means it should be impossible to playback videos in full-screen from an SD card on a gta02. 640*480*25 = 768 and that's with 8bpp. Has anyone tested video playback on a GTA02 yet ? correct. yuv will be w * h * 1.5 bytes for 1 frame (standard video yuv). so 3240x240*1.5*30 (320x240 @ 30fps) = 3.4m/sec - BUT... when u are copying you have ZERO cpu cycles to decode the next video frame. so that means 50% of cpu cycles will be spent ONLY copying video data to video ram. the other 50% u have left to decode the mpeg1/2/4 or whatever video in system ram to a yuv buffer. i would say this is the realistic highest resolution you will get. [EMAIL PROTECTED] is the MOST you will get (6.9m/sec), but u have ZERO (or almost) cpu cycles to actually decode the video into yuv. remember here i am assuming use of xvideo and the yuv to rgb conversion and scaling on the glamo - which xglamo does support. if you do software yuv-rgb + scale then its even less fun. with software. the best u will get is 11fps at 640x480 - and this is NO cpu cycles to actually decode the video, convert it to 16bit rgb and scale. in reality i expect you to see 2-5fps in this scenario, maybe eve 1fps. this is ONLY
Re: Video Playback virtually impossible on Neo Freerunner? (Re: Video of Qt 4.4 on Neo1973: brings iPhone like graphics)
On Thu, 24 Apr 2008 12:44:50 +0200 (CEST) David Samblas Martinez [EMAIL PROTECTED] babbled: I'm gonna still buy the freerunner when as soon as it become avialble and I will work as hard as my non-linux-freak life let me do it. But I have to admit than this video limitation in the neo's video has dissapoint me very deeply. The good news is that I have been disapointed BEFORE I have bought the neo and even Before the freerunner is released so OM gives me the oportunity to decide and evaluate if this is a stopper to buy this phone or not. Can any of the core team confirm this video limitations? did you read my mail? :) it has limitations. i detailed them in my previous email. :) (yes - i'm core team). --- Christoph Witzany [EMAIL PROTECTED] escribió: As I understood Video playback will be virtually impossible on the freerunner, at least from the sd card (which is the only sensible location to store videos on the neo ftm). Please correct me if I misunderstood. Well that could have the potential to kill the Freerunner as consumer product. Just because virtually every other 100$ phone does it which is shaping the consumers' expectations. And while I do not expect to use this feature more than a couple times a month it would make me reconsider using it as my main phone (I'll be using it as development platform, so it doesn't matter for now). I think that this design should be reconsidered as soon as possible if Openmoko really wants to go into the consumer market. PS: What about streaming media from the net? Any musings and/or actual experiences with that? If I interpreted Carsten right 640x480 video will display at 5-10 fps at best, right? Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) schrieb: On Thu, 24 Apr 2008 09:24:26 +0200 polz [EMAIL PROTECTED] babbled: On Thursday 24 April 2008 05:52:52 Carsten Haitzler wrote: On Wed, 23 Apr 2008 18:28:40 +0200 thomasg [EMAIL PROTECTED] babbled: yup. those 7m/sec (that's write to video ram) is also shared with SD card IO. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to me that this means it should be impossible to playback videos in full-screen from an SD card on a gta02. 640*480*25 = 768 and that's with 8bpp. Has anyone tested video playback on a GTA02 yet ? correct. yuv will be w * h * 1.5 bytes for 1 frame (standard video yuv). so 3240x240*1.5*30 (320x240 @ 30fps) = 3.4m/sec - BUT... when u are copying you have ZERO cpu cycles to decode the next video frame. so that means 50% of cpu cycles will be spent ONLY copying video data to video ram. the other 50% u have left to decode the mpeg1/2/4 or whatever video in system ram to a yuv buffer. i would say this is the realistic highest resolution you will get. [EMAIL PROTECTED] is the MOST you will get (6.9m/sec), but u have ZERO (or almost) cpu cycles to actually decode the video into yuv. remember here i am assuming use of xvideo and the yuv to rgb conversion and scaling on the glamo - which xglamo does support. if you do software yuv-rgb + scale then its even less fun. with software. the best u will get is 11fps at 640x480 - and this is NO cpu cycles to actually decode the video, convert it to 16bit rgb and scale. in reality i expect you to see 2-5fps in this scenario, maybe eve 1fps. this is ONLY playback if the video data is already in ram - ie the mpeg data is cached. if it is read off internal flash you will pay an IO cost - but it's not shared with the glamo bus. if it is on SD card - you will basically have to now share the IO between SD and graphics. i believe the graphics IO takes precedence over SD card IO, so as long as u keep the glamo gfx bus busy, sd will be on hold until u stop. then some sd io can get through. with the glamo you need to be careful what you do and how you do it. if you can keep something entirely within the glamo - it should be ok. so things like uploaded pixmaps and then blitting them around is ok. video decode is another matter entirely. the glamo has an mpeg4 decoder on it - but we don't have any api to access that directly/sanely and just feed it an mpeg4 stream. any other codec has to be done on the cpu anyway and uploaded across the bus as yuv data. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community __ Enviado desde Correo Yahoo! La bandeja de entrada más inteligente. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) [EMAIL
Re: bulk order
Hi, We will ship the Freerunner to Norway for 45,-- Euro. No matter how many Freerunner. Shipping via UPS. Insured transport. This means that each Freerunner would cost $60 more from TRIsoft compared with OM. This means I would pay 1200 USD more if I order two 10-packs from TRIsoft. _OR_ they could mean that they ship 1 FreeRunner for $60 and also 10 FreeRunners for $60... All I say is that they aren't clear in their mail, it can be read both ways. Christ van Willegen -- 09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0 ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: bulk order
On 4/24/08, Christ van Willegen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, We will ship the Freerunner to Norway for 45,-- Euro. No matter how many Freerunner. Shipping via UPS. Insured transport. This means that each Freerunner would cost $60 more from TRIsoft compared with OM. This means I would pay 1200 USD more if I order two 10-packs from TRIsoft. _OR_ they could mean that they ship 1 FreeRunner for $60 and also 10 FreeRunners for $60... All I say is that they aren't clear in their mail, it can be read both ways. Sorry. I was not clear. Only the text in double quotes () are from the e-mail they sent me. Did you mean the 45 euros? The $60 is numbers I calculated and was _not_ in the e-mail from TRIsoft. -- Please don't send me Word or PowerPoint attachments. See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html Join the FSF as an Associate Member at: URL:http://www.fsf.org/register_form?referrer=5774 Free your mind - Open(moko) your phone ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Video Playback virtually impossible on Neo Freerunner? (Re: Video of Qt 4.4 on Neo1973: brings iPhone like graphics)
Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) schrieb: snip 320x240 video would be sane possibly if the source is internal flash instead of SD or maybe 802.11. Well ... that is not so bad ... even if the fact that sd card cannot be the source for is a bit sad ... Well that could have the potential to kill the Freerunner as consumer product. Just because virtually every other 100$ phone does it which is shaping the consumers' expectations. And while I do not expect to use this feature more than a couple times a month it would make me reconsider using it as my main phone (I'll be using it as development platform, so it doesn't matter for now). well we could quietly say nothing and wait until you find out, but my position is just to put the facts out as-is and give you my best interpretation of them. Yes that's the great thing about openmoko, and my intent was definitely not to shoot the messenger. It's *much* better to know now than to find out. remember every other $100 phone is *NOT* $100 - it is $300 or $400 or $500 - it is SUBSIDISED by the carrier. when you sing up saying you will pay the telco money for the next 12 or 24 months, they subsidies the phone. when the carrier tells the phone maker disable this feature so the customer HAS to pay us to send their photos via email, instead of just using usb or sd-cards they subsidise it further hoping/knowin they will xtort more money from you in services etc. etc. if you want the REAL cost - ask the carrier what you would pay for the phone with NO contract, or find a shop that sells the same phone unlocked. Well, no, I'm aware of this. I really meant 100$ phone (without contract and carrier subsidising, and yes I priced in the feature inflation til autumn when the Freerunner will have to compete with other phones). secondly these $100 phones are mostly QVGA, not VGA. we have to fill/drive 4 times as many pixels as they do. Valid point, but as you said the Freerunner will not be able to play QVGA from the SD Card ... thirdly - they don't (mostly) offer wifi. in fact they don't do a lot the freerunner does. an actual $100 phone (that is $100 when unlocked) does very very very very little - the $100 ones u think of are actually much more. Well I estimate that in autumn the Motorola K1 will be in that range, eg. It does not have WLAN, of course, and it doesn't even have QVGA. However I did not want to make a point about the openmoko's capabilities vs. such a cheap phone. *I* still think the freerunner is worth every penny of the 400$. I wanted to make a point about *consumer expectations*. And if even a phone like the K1 plays Video, people will expect a device of freerunners class to have this capability. I think that this design should be reconsidered as soon as possible if Openmoko really wants to go into the consumer market. it can't be. it's too late in production. freerunner is as-is. with the good and the ugly. we are open about it and at least give you the option of doing something about it, and knowing in advance all the gory details. Well of course not for the Freerunner (GTA2). And I'm very happy that it's far too late for that because that means I'm gonna have mine soon. But for GTA3 this should be considered as an *very* important issue. But that should go to another thread then. And again thank you for the detailed explanation of the really gory details :) PS: What about streaming media from the net? Any musings and/or actual experiences with that? If I interpreted Carsten right 640x480 video will display at 5-10 fps at best, right? you will be able to manage [EMAIL PROTECTED] i expect streamed video. of course if you lower the framerate you can increase the resolution. you can do the math (with 15fps you get 2x the pixels - [EMAIL PROTECTED] for example, [EMAIL PROTECTED] etc.). In a way that is great for my project that aims to develop a grid based filesystem for mobile devices ;) again - we could do better if we limited ourselves to just mpeg4 (which is what almost all phones do - they do only 1 codec or maybe 2), but the problem here is that xv does not provide a way to do this sanely (stream just mpeg4 data to x so it decodes in hardware). the graphics chip (glamo) can decode mpeg4 itself, but we dont have the time or resources to do this properly ourselves. you are free to do it yourself as we provide all the code, but you would need to reverse-engineer the graphics chip or hope that graphics documentation can be made public. right now you need an NDA to see the docs. I'd love to see this, but as I'm not in the position to put considerable efford into this either I will just shut up and not complain :) snip ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: bulk order
On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 1:52 PM, Flemming Richter Mikkelsen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 4/24/08, Christ van Willegen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, We will ship the Freerunner to Norway for 45,-- Euro. No matter how many Freerunner. Shipping via UPS. Insured transport. This means that each Freerunner would cost $60 more from TRIsoft compared with OM. This means I would pay 1200 USD more if I order two 10-packs from TRIsoft. _OR_ they could mean that they ship 1 FreeRunner for $60 and also 10 FreeRunners for $60... All I say is that they aren't clear in their mail, it can be read both ways. Sorry. I was not clear. Only the text in double quotes () are from the e-mail they sent me. That still can mean 2 things... Did you mean the 45 euros? The $60 is numbers I calculated and was _not_ in the e-mail from TRIsoft. Yes, I meant that 45euro shipping costs is about $60 (and so did you). Christ van Willegen -- 09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0 ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Newbee wants to kick start - second try
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hello. Sorry for being pushy but I've seem even blank emails being answered, I wonder why mine wasn't the first time so I decided to try again :) I've been fascinated for this project for some time and now, with the proximity of the Freerunner release, I want to start to be a bit more active. I also have been following this list for a few days and I would like to have some clarifications. - - Looks like there's some movement towards pre-sales of the freerunner. Is there something set for Latin America (I'm in Brazil)? I didn't see any in the wiki page so I suppose there's none yet, right? Can I start one or is there any pre-requisites? - - Next month I'll in in Europe and I could use this time to grab mine. Is the release time of the freerunner already set? - - I've being reading about a project to implement cryptography on Openmoko so the calls and text messages can be secured, unfortunately I forgot the name of the project but I've heard that voice calls can't be secured like that due limitations on the way GSM work. Is this correct? Thanks and []s Adilson. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFIEIF/2cB5Bt7H7YARAud+AKCU9lMbjg857XttODOc+1V7GozvbgCfVxz5 5J0ahZkXOLyob7Gzs0ySGS4= =85Tz -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: bulk order
On 4/24/08, Christ van Willegen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 1:52 PM, Flemming Richter Mikkelsen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 4/24/08, Christ van Willegen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, We will ship the Freerunner to Norway for 45,-- Euro. No matter how many Freerunner. Shipping via UPS. Insured transport. This means that each Freerunner would cost $60 more from TRIsoft compared with OM. This means I would pay 1200 USD more if I order two 10-packs from TRIsoft. _OR_ they could mean that they ship 1 FreeRunner for $60 and also 10 FreeRunners for $60... All I say is that they aren't clear in their mail, it can be read both ways. Sorry. I was not clear. Only the text in double quotes () are from the e-mail they sent me. That still can mean 2 things... Did you mean the 45 euros? The $60 is numbers I calculated and was _not_ in the e-mail from TRIsoft. Yes, I meant that 45euro shipping costs is about $60 (and so did you). No. 264,70 Euro - (399 - 10%) USD = 60 USD -- Please don't send me Word or PowerPoint attachments. See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html Join the FSF as an Associate Member at: URL:http://www.fsf.org/register_form?referrer=5774 Free your mind - Open(moko) your phone ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Video Playback virtually impossible on Neo Freerunner? (Re: Video of Qt 4.4 on Neo1973: brings iPhone like graphics)
I know and I'm sorry if I was missunderstood I'm not complaining about I will be unable to play video, I complaining about Have a 640x480 resolution screen and not able to play at 640x480 resolution. Well more than complaining about this is that I believe that with that cpu and graphical power I will be able to do that, maybe not now but developing the glamo drivers it would be posible, but today I realize that is a bus issue so no matter how much Hz and features drivers had read the sd and play 640x480x25fps at time doesn't fit in the pipe, and we cannot change the tube. But again is all about my own expectations and the ignorace about the shared sd/graphics bus issue. Cuestions:, It will be able to play full screen at 480*320*25=5.6 m/s ? 1.4 M/s is enought to read the video on the sd at same time?? I if I not wrong mp4 ratio is 16:1 so 1.4*16=22.4 max raw video data in the 1.4 pipe so seems to be enough even for a less cpu eater video compresion. I will be able to live with a little pixelation ;)(a lot of irony in this phrase in the era of youtube fullscreen videos on 1280x1024 screen) --- Peter Kraker [EMAIL PROTECTED] escribió: As written by raster, you can play video at lower resolution. Also implementing support for mpeg4 should help a great deal. David Samblas Martinez pravi: I'm gonna still buy the freerunner when as soon as it become avialble and I will work as hard as my non-linux-freak life let me do it. But I have to admit than this video limitation in the neo's video has dissapoint me very deeply. The good news is that I have been disapointed BEFORE I have bought the neo and even Before the freerunner is released so OM gives me the oportunity to decide and evaluate if this is a stopper to buy this phone or not. Can any of the core team confirm this video limitations? --- Christoph Witzany [EMAIL PROTECTED] escribió: As I understood Video playback will be virtually impossible on the freerunner, at least from the sd card (which is the only sensible location to store videos on the neo ftm). Please correct me if I misunderstood. Well that could have the potential to kill the Freerunner as consumer product. Just because virtually every other 100$ phone does it which is shaping the consumers' expectations. And while I do not expect to use this feature more than a couple times a month it would make me reconsider using it as my main phone (I'll be using it as development platform, so it doesn't matter for now). I think that this design should be reconsidered as soon as possible if Openmoko really wants to go into the consumer market. PS: What about streaming media from the net? Any musings and/or actual experiences with that? If I interpreted Carsten right 640x480 video will display at 5-10 fps at best, right? Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) schrieb: On Thu, 24 Apr 2008 09:24:26 +0200 polz [EMAIL PROTECTED] babbled: On Thursday 24 April 2008 05:52:52 Carsten Haitzler wrote: On Wed, 23 Apr 2008 18:28:40 +0200 thomasg [EMAIL PROTECTED] babbled: yup. those 7m/sec (that's write to video ram) is also shared with SD card IO. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to me that this means it should be impossible to playback videos in full-screen from an SD card on a gta02. 640*480*25 = 768 and that's with 8bpp. Has anyone tested video playback on a GTA02 yet ? correct. yuv will be w * h * 1.5 bytes for 1 frame (standard video yuv). so 3240x240*1.5*30 (320x240 @ 30fps) = 3.4m/sec - BUT... when u are copying you have ZERO cpu cycles to decode the next video frame. so that means 50% of cpu cycles will be spent ONLY copying video data to video ram. the other 50% u have left to decode the mpeg1/2/4 or whatever video in system ram to a yuv buffer. i would say this is the realistic highest resolution you will get. [EMAIL PROTECTED] is the MOST you will get (6.9m/sec), but u have ZERO (or almost) cpu cycles to actually decode the video into yuv. remember here i am assuming use of xvideo and the yuv to rgb conversion and scaling on the glamo - which xglamo does support. if you do software yuv-rgb + scale then its even less fun. with software. the best u will get is 11fps at 640x480 - and this is NO cpu cycles to actually decode the video, convert it to 16bit rgb and scale. in reality i expect you to see 2-5fps in this scenario, maybe eve 1fps. this is ONLY playback if the video data is already
Re: Video Playback virtually impossible on Neo Freerunner? (Re: Video of Qt 4.4 on Neo1973: brings iPhone like graphics)
On Thu, 24 Apr 2008 14:06:32 +0200 Christoph Witzany [EMAIL PROTECTED] babbled: Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) schrieb: snip 320x240 video would be sane possibly if the source is internal flash instead of SD or maybe 802.11. Well ... that is not so bad ... even if the fact that sd card cannot be the source for is a bit sad ... i can say now - 320x240 mpeg4 video with mplayer using xvideo on the gta02 even can't play at 30fps. i was wrong with my guess. it is dropping 25% of the frames. so as such actually i correct this. i was too optimistic. you can more likely manage 20fps @ 320x240. this is mpeg4 - so mpeg1 and 2 may be better as they are simpler codecs. do remember when i say resolution - i mean the video itself. the hardware can SCALE it to fill the screen, but this is taking 320x240 video and scaling it up (adding blur) so of course the quality isn't that good. remember too that color information is half that resolution in each dimension again (160x120 - though depends on codec). so you will be able to play video - and fill the screen, but the SOURCE video will need to be encoded at a lower framerate or resolution. you will pay a quality price one way or another. Well that could have the potential to kill the Freerunner as consumer product. Just because virtually every other 100$ phone does it which is shaping the consumers' expectations. And while I do not expect to use this feature more than a couple times a month it would make me reconsider using it as my main phone (I'll be using it as development platform, so it doesn't matter for now). well we could quietly say nothing and wait until you find out, but my position is just to put the facts out as-is and give you my best interpretation of them. Yes that's the great thing about openmoko, and my intent was definitely not to shoot the messenger. It's *much* better to know now than to find out. :) remember every other $100 phone is *NOT* $100 - it is $300 or $400 or $500 - it is SUBSIDISED by the carrier. when you sing up saying you will pay the telco money for the next 12 or 24 months, they subsidies the phone. when the carrier tells the phone maker disable this feature so the customer HAS to pay us to send their photos via email, instead of just using usb or sd-cards they subsidise it further hoping/knowin they will xtort more money from you in services etc. etc. if you want the REAL cost - ask the carrier what you would pay for the phone with NO contract, or find a shop that sells the same phone unlocked. Well, no, I'm aware of this. I really meant 100$ phone (without contract and carrier subsidising, and yes I priced in the feature inflation til autumn when the Freerunner will have to compete with other phones). secondly these $100 phones are mostly QVGA, not VGA. we have to fill/drive 4 times as many pixels as they do. Valid point, but as you said the Freerunner will not be able to play QVGA from the SD Card ... yup. can't manage it anyway - not 30fps. 20fps - yes. but not from SD. actully just did a test. 320x24- video played off SD card (uncached - i am pretty sure). same video as above - i went down from 21 to 19fps for sdcard. so right now i'd be feeling ok saying QVGA @ 15fps video is ok (scaled up ok). thirdly - they don't (mostly) offer wifi. in fact they don't do a lot the freerunner does. an actual $100 phone (that is $100 when unlocked) does very very very very little - the $100 ones u think of are actually much more. Well I estimate that in autumn the Motorola K1 will be in that range, eg. It does not have WLAN, of course, and it doesn't even have QVGA. However I did not want to make a point about the openmoko's capabilities vs. such a cheap phone. *I* still think the freerunner is worth every penny of the 400$. I wanted to make a point about *consumer expectations*. And if even a phone like the K1 plays Video, people will expect a device of freerunners class to have this capability. i know. no need to tell me :) you're preaching to the choir. hell preaching to the priest. :) graphics are my thing. it's what i do. i know where freerunner stands. i see no reason to be over-optimistic about it. we with squeeze a bit more out of it, but frankly with each squeeze comes a mountain more effort to get there. at some point you need to know where to call it quits. :( more WORK can be done - but you are not going to double its speed. there are hardware limitations we just won't be beating the walls down of :( I think that this design should be reconsidered as soon as possible if Openmoko really wants to go into the consumer market. it can't be. it's too late in production. freerunner is as-is. with the good and the ugly. we are open about it and at least give you the option of doing something about it, and knowing in advance all the gory details. Well of course not for the Freerunner (GTA2). And
Re: bulk order
On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 2:58 PM, Flemming Richter Mikkelsen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 264,70 Euro - (399 - 10%) USD = 60 USD Aha, so that was my misunderstanding! Now I see what you meant... even if trisoft ships 100 Freerunners to Norway for 45eur, you still pay $60 more each. EUR45 is about $71, but I thought you were rounding up or down a bit somewhere... But, having a 'local' dealer will probably mean a better service if a phone goes dead, right? Christ van Willegen -- 09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0 ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Video Playback virtually impossible on Neo Freerunner? (Re: Video of Qt 4.4 on Neo1973: brings iPhone like graphics)
On Thu, 24 Apr 2008 15:00:33 +0200 (CEST) David Samblas Martinez [EMAIL PROTECTED] babbled: I know and I'm sorry if I was missunderstood I'm not complaining about I will be unable to play video, I complaining about Have a 640x480 resolution screen and not able to play at 640x480 resolution. no. but it can SCALE lower resolution video UP to 640x480. see my other mails. Well more than complaining about this is that I believe that with that cpu and graphical power I will be able to do that, maybe not now but developing the glamo drivers it would be posible, but today I realize that is a bus issue so no matter how much Hz and features drivers had read the sd and play 640x480x25fps at time doesn't fit in the pipe, and we cannot change the tube. But again is all about my own expectations and the ignorace about the shared sd/graphics bus issue. Cuestions:, It will be able to play full screen at 480*320*25=5.6 m/s ? 1.4 M/s is enought to read the video on the sd at same time?? see my other mail. [EMAIL PROTECTED] is not possible. off sd card about 19fps is the limit @ 320x240. 21fps if from internal flash. i did actual tests. mpeg4 video. I if I not wrong mp4 ratio is 16:1 so 1.4*16=22.4 max depends on your compression quality. can be anything. raw video data in the 1.4 pipe so seems to be enough even for a less cpu eater video compresion. nup. did benchmarks. you need cpu for the DECODE. every second u spend copying data to video ram (the cpu does the copy - there is no usable dma. while the cpu copies - it is not decoding). so if you fill up the glamo bus (7m/s) u will do 0 decoding. I will be able to live with a little pixelation ;)(a lot of irony in this phrase in the era of youtube fullscreen videos on 1280x1024 screen) --- Peter Kraker [EMAIL PROTECTED] escribió: As written by raster, you can play video at lower resolution. Also implementing support for mpeg4 should help a great deal. David Samblas Martinez pravi: I'm gonna still buy the freerunner when as soon as it become avialble and I will work as hard as my non-linux-freak life let me do it. But I have to admit than this video limitation in the neo's video has dissapoint me very deeply. The good news is that I have been disapointed BEFORE I have bought the neo and even Before the freerunner is released so OM gives me the oportunity to decide and evaluate if this is a stopper to buy this phone or not. Can any of the core team confirm this video limitations? --- Christoph Witzany [EMAIL PROTECTED] escribió: As I understood Video playback will be virtually impossible on the freerunner, at least from the sd card (which is the only sensible location to store videos on the neo ftm). Please correct me if I misunderstood. Well that could have the potential to kill the Freerunner as consumer product. Just because virtually every other 100$ phone does it which is shaping the consumers' expectations. And while I do not expect to use this feature more than a couple times a month it would make me reconsider using it as my main phone (I'll be using it as development platform, so it doesn't matter for now). I think that this design should be reconsidered as soon as possible if Openmoko really wants to go into the consumer market. PS: What about streaming media from the net? Any musings and/or actual experiences with that? If I interpreted Carsten right 640x480 video will display at 5-10 fps at best, right? Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) schrieb: On Thu, 24 Apr 2008 09:24:26 +0200 polz [EMAIL PROTECTED] babbled: On Thursday 24 April 2008 05:52:52 Carsten Haitzler wrote: On Wed, 23 Apr 2008 18:28:40 +0200 thomasg [EMAIL PROTECTED] babbled: yup. those 7m/sec (that's write to video ram) is also shared with SD card IO. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to me that this means it should be impossible to playback videos in full-screen from an SD card on a gta02. 640*480*25 = 768 and that's with 8bpp. Has anyone tested video playback on a GTA02 yet ? correct. yuv will be w * h * 1.5 bytes for 1 frame (standard video yuv). so 3240x240*1.5*30 (320x240 @ 30fps) = 3.4m/sec - BUT... when u are copying you have ZERO cpu cycles to decode the next video frame. so that means 50% of cpu cycles will be spent ONLY copying video data to video ram. the other 50% u have left to decode the mpeg1/2/4 or whatever video in system ram to a yuv buffer. i
RE: Newbee wants to kick start - second try
No realease date yet, but we are closer than ever... I was waiting for it so long that when I got one in my hands I will miss this waiting for feeeling. --- Adilson Oliveira [EMAIL PROTECTED] escribió: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hello. Sorry for being pushy but I've seem even blank emails being answered, I wonder why mine wasn't the first time so I decided to try again :) I've been fascinated for this project for some time and now, with the proximity of the Freerunner release, I want to start to be a bit more active. I also have been following this list for a few days and I would like to have some clarifications. - - Looks like there's some movement towards pre-sales of the freerunner. Is there something set for Latin America (I'm in Brazil)? I didn't see any in the wiki page so I suppose there's none yet, right? Can I start one or is there any pre-requisites? - - Next month I'll in in Europe and I could use this time to grab mine. Is the release time of the freerunner already set? - - I've being reading about a project to implement cryptography on Openmoko so the calls and text messages can be secured, unfortunately I forgot the name of the project but I've heard that voice calls can't be secured like that due limitations on the way GSM work. Is this correct? Thanks and []s Adilson. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFIEIF/2cB5Bt7H7YARAud+AKCU9lMbjg857XttODOc+1V7GozvbgCfVxz5 5J0ahZkXOLyob7Gzs0ySGS4= =85Tz -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community __ Enviado desde Correo Yahoo! La bandeja de entrada más inteligente. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: (no subject)
2008/4/24 Flemming Richter Mikkelsen [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Yeah. I recently bought a laptop. It came with Vista. When I booted it I discovered a bluescreen which is a bug because now the bgcolour should be red. Anyway, no my Gentoo is running and everything works nice:) Blue screen indicates that windows has reached it's most stable state. Nothing will go worng from there. Of course it does rather limit what you can do now... -Peter ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: bulk order
On 4/24/08, Christ van Willegen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 2:58 PM, Flemming Richter Mikkelsen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 264,70 Euro - (399 - 10%) USD = 60 USD Aha, so that was my misunderstanding! Now I see what you meant... even if trisoft ships 100 Freerunners to Norway for 45eur, you still pay $60 more each. EUR45 is about $71, but I thought you were rounding up or down a bit somewhere... But, having a 'local' dealer will probably mean a better service if a phone goes dead, right? In case I need to make use of the warranty, yes. But for this price, I could buy some extra Freerunners as spare parts. -- Please don't send me Word or PowerPoint attachments. See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html Join the FSF as an Associate Member at: URL:http://www.fsf.org/register_form?referrer=5774 Free your mind - Open(moko) your phone ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: bulk order
In case I need to make use of the warranty, yes. But for this price, I could buy some extra Freerunners as spare parts. That is, if I could buy directly from OM. -- Please don't send me Word or PowerPoint attachments. See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html Join the FSF as an Associate Member at: URL:http://www.fsf.org/register_form?referrer=5774 Free your mind - Open(moko) your phone ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: Newbee wants to kick start - encrypted calls
Not sure if there's a specific project, I'm hoping to do some sort of analog encryption, with audio effects and inverse effects, such that it does not need to be digitally decoded, where the excellent pattern recognition engine in the brain does most of the work. Matt -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Adilson Oliveira Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2008 8:48 AM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: Newbee wants to kick start - second try -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hello. Sorry for being pushy but I've seem even blank emails being answered, I wonder why mine wasn't the first time so I decided to try again :) I've been fascinated for this project for some time and now, with the proximity of the Freerunner release, I want to start to be a bit more active. I also have been following this list for a few days and I would like to have some clarifications. - - Looks like there's some movement towards pre-sales of the freerunner. Is there something set for Latin America (I'm in Brazil)? I didn't see any in the wiki page so I suppose there's none yet, right? Can I start one or is there any pre-requisites? - - Next month I'll in in Europe and I could use this time to grab mine. Is the release time of the freerunner already set? - - I've being reading about a project to implement cryptography on Openmoko so the calls and text messages can be secured, unfortunately I forgot the name of the project but I've heard that voice calls can't be secured like that due limitations on the way GSM work. Is this correct? Thanks and []s Adilson. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFIEIF/2cB5Bt7H7YARAud+AKCU9lMbjg857XttODOc+1V7GozvbgCfVxz5 5J0ahZkXOLyob7Gzs0ySGS4= =85Tz -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Video Playback virtually impossible on Neo Freerunner? (Re: Video of Qt 4.4 on Neo1973: brings iPhone like graphics)
to, 2008-04-24 kello 19:20 +0800, Carsten Haitzler kirjoitti: the graphics chip (glamo) can decode mpeg4 itself, but we dont have the time or resources to do this properly ourselves. you are free to do it yourself as we provide all the code, but you would need to reverse-engineer the graphics chip or hope that graphics documentation can be made public. right now you need an NDA to see the docs. Righto. Of course, I'll be still buying the phone regardless, but I would hope OM toss some resources this way _after_ getting the system otherwise mass-market operational (or yeah, at least get the mpeg decoding part independently and publicly documented as was alluded to as a possibility with the glamo anyway). Leaving it totally unsupported in these conditions would be somewhat downletting. (Again, talking extended duration here, I don't mind it being unsupported for now.) And for my two cents, screw properly if it gets too much in the way. A device node that takes ioctls for geometry and mpeg-4 packets to decode? If that's what it takes to get the functionality... And hey, any crappy implementation would at least provide information for Somebody Else to perhaps make it cleaner. -- Mikko Rauhala - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - URL:http://www.iki.fi/mjr/ Transhumanist - WTA member - URL:http://www.transhumanism.org/ Singularitarian - SIAI supporter - URL:http://www.singinst.org/ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Video Playback virtually impossible on Neo Freerunner? (Re: Video of Qt 4.4 on Neo1973: brings iPhone like graphics)
I think the highest priority in general should be getting the proper drivers written for the GPU on the Freerunner, it seems like such a waste to have it, and not be able to use it. On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 8:49 AM, Mikko Rauhala [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: to, 2008-04-24 kello 19:20 +0800, Carsten Haitzler kirjoitti: the graphics chip (glamo) can decode mpeg4 itself, but we dont have the time or resources to do this properly ourselves. you are free to do it yourself as we provide all the code, but you would need to reverse-engineer the graphics chip or hope that graphics documentation can be made public. right now you need an NDA to see the docs. Righto. Of course, I'll be still buying the phone regardless, but I would hope OM toss some resources this way _after_ getting the system otherwise mass-market operational (or yeah, at least get the mpeg decoding part independently and publicly documented as was alluded to as a possibility with the glamo anyway). Leaving it totally unsupported in these conditions would be somewhat downletting. (Again, talking extended duration here, I don't mind it being unsupported for now.) And for my two cents, screw properly if it gets too much in the way. A device node that takes ioctls for geometry and mpeg-4 packets to decode? If that's what it takes to get the functionality... And hey, any crappy implementation would at least provide information for Somebody Else to perhaps make it cleaner. -- Mikko Rauhala - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - URL:http://www.iki.fi/mjr/ Transhumanist - WTA member - URL:http://www.transhumanism.org/ Singularitarian - SIAI supporter - URL:http://www.singinst.org/ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Video Playback virtually impossible on Neo Freerunner? (Re: Video of Qt 4.4 on Neo1973: brings iPhone like graphics)
Thank you for this answer. I think that this is the only (or one of a few) firm in the world that treat this customers as *partner* no only as *consumers*. I know is not easy for a firm to speak about *defects* of a product that their are starting to produce, but in my opinion is better so, so a person can choose with knowing what he will buy! This according me is the magic part of open development. A *customer* is a protagonist, not only an *animal* that must only to buy the new model! I will spend my 400$ (or more, because I am living outside US) to buy a product that has defects, because i appreciate, more that all, the transparency that Openmoko is showing to me. Thank you ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA03 wish list (was: What US plans are people using?)
On 22 Apr 2008, at 23:05, ian douglas wrote: Travis Tabbal wrote: Of course, a quad band setup would be preferred Hey OpenMoko team, has anyone started a wish-list for the GTA03 yet? - true quad-band - a place to hide a stylus - anti pooch pouch poaching device One of the objectives of openmoko is to no need to use the stylus at all ... When devels talk about mokofy (port to openmoko) some aplication one of the chalenges is to use it with out stylus. http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2008-April/016014.html I was VERY pleased the other day to read this, as I find it fiddly to mess around with a stylus. Despite previous phones I've owned having stylus holders, I have always lost them. I guess a stylus holder simply doesn't actually _hold_ so well. Apart from this, it always seems to me much more natural to use my fingers, but of course on previous phones the on-screen buttons are too small. I would love a link, if anyone has one, to official developer documentation stating the no-stylus requirement. Stroller. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Battery 2300mAh
Hi guys, would it be possible to use or even charge this battery which is identical in construction to the Nokia Batteries?: http://www.amazon.de/Power-Akku-Baugleich-BL-5C-BL5C/dp/B000L11VF6/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8s=ce-deqid=1208966723sr=8-4 I only found it on the german site. I think its really cheap and it comes with a 24 months warranty. Best regards Michael Tansella ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Battery 2300mAh
Well, it would be possible. But the 2300 mAh mentioned there will be about 800 mAh in reality I guess... On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 6:33 PM, simarillion [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi guys, would it be possible to use or even charge this battery which is identical in construction to the Nokia Batteries?: http://www.amazon.de/Power-Akku-Baugleich-BL-5C-BL5C/dp/B000L11VF6/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8s=ce-deqid=1208966723sr=8-4 I only found it on the german site. I think its really cheap and it comes with a 24 months warranty. Best regards Michael Tansella ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Battery 2300mAh
i bought a maxpower accu from ebay for my siemens s55 and the written power is incorrect. it says 2500mAh and does not power my mobile longer than a 700mAh akku. i guess the true power ist about 500mAh. so i cannot recommend this accu. perhaps this type is better but i don't think so. Sebastian simarillion schrieb: Hi guys, would it be possible to use or even charge this battery which is identical in construction to the Nokia Batteries?: http://www.amazon.de/Power-Akku-Baugleich-BL-5C-BL5C/dp/B000L11VF6/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8s=ce-deqid=1208966723sr=8-4 I only found it on the german site. I think its really cheap and it comes with a 24 months warranty. Best regards Michael Tansella ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA03 wish list (was: What US plans are people using?)
I don't think the games were ported. I thought they were just a simply cross-compile to show that they would work on Openmoko. I think the intention is that you should be able to do most things without a stylus. It says essentially that on http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Applications#Overview That said, this is opensource! You can't force every developer to design their program for finger operation. Some app just might not be usable without a stylus and that's up to the developer. If you don't like it, modify the source and change the GUI. The one thing I've written[1] was specifically designed to be finger-friendly as I don't intend to carry a stylus around with me either. -Steven [1] http://projects.openmoko.org/projects/moko-sudoku/ On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 12:00 PM, Kevin Dean [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 12:30 PM, Stroller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: One of the objectives of openmoko is to no need to use the stylus at all ... When devels talk about mokofy (port to openmoko) some aplication one of the chalenges is to use it with out stylus. Either this is NOT a real goal of Openmoko or the developers suck at it. There are SEVERAL applications on Openmoko that require a stylus (many of the games, for instance). As far as I know, the criteria Openmoko apps must be usable with fingers has never been set. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA03 wish list (was: What US plans are people using?)
On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 1:28 PM, Steven ** [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't think the games were ported. I thought they were just a simply cross-compile to show that they would work on Openmoko. I think the intention is that you should be able to do most things without a stylus. It says essentially that on http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Applications#Overview That said, this is opensource! You can't force every developer to design their program for finger operation. A point of clarification... I'm not referring to every app, I'm referring specifically to the applications that Openmoko will be releasing. Perhaps this is an incorrect assumption, but I am under the impression that Openmoko Inc. will be writing and releasing software to do the things their hardware devices are advertised as being able to do. They say GPS Navigation and I assume Openmoko Inc. will provide customers with a GPS navigation application. Same for dialer (since the device is advertised as being able to make phone calls) and so on. the device isn't advertised as a home automation remote control, but it MIGHT be if the user decided to go beyond what the consumer device is being sold to do. Someone can write an application in Qt 4.4 and SAY it's a Gnome application, but it's not. Likewise, if it doesn't conform to the guidelines specified for Openmoko it's not really an Openmoko app, if that makes sense. Some app just might not be usable without a stylus and that's up to the developer. If you don't like it, modify the source and change the GUI. Keep in mind that Freerunner is designed to be a mass market product. That's very true that this can be done but making that action a REQUIREMENT for consistant applications is directly opposite the ideas of a mass market device. The one thing I've written[1] was specifically designed to be finger-friendly as I don't intend to carry a stylus around with me either. -Steven [1] http://projects.openmoko.org/projects/moko-sudoku/ On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 12:00 PM, Kevin Dean [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 12:30 PM, Stroller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: One of the objectives of openmoko is to no need to use the stylus at all ... When devels talk about mokofy (port to openmoko) some aplication one of the chalenges is to use it with out stylus. Either this is NOT a real goal of Openmoko or the developers suck at it. There are SEVERAL applications on Openmoko that require a stylus (many of the games, for instance). As far as I know, the criteria Openmoko apps must be usable with fingers has never been set. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Newbee wants to kick start - second try
On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 2:47 PM, Adilson Oliveira [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hello. Sorry for being pushy but I've seem even blank emails being answered, I wonder why mine wasn't the first time so I decided to try again :) That happens sometimes I've been fascinated for this project for some time and now, with the proximity of the Freerunner release, I want to start to be a bit more active. I also have been following this list for a few days and I would like to have some clarifications. - - Looks like there's some movement towards pre-sales of the freerunner. Is there something set for Latin America (I'm in Brazil)? I didn't see any in the wiki page so I suppose there's none yet, right? Can I start one or is there any pre-requisites? There aren't any pre-sales as far as I know, just you can buy a Freeerunner even before the software is completely finished, directly from OpenMoko. You are probably referring to group sales, because a pack of 10 freerunners costs less and the taxes and trasport are also cheaper for a group sale. You can start a buyer group if there's none. - - Next month I'll in in Europe and I could use this time to grab mine. Is the release time of the freerunner already set? Probably buying it in Europe isn't always the best choice, because of taxes. And, sadly, there's no release date yet, but some ime ago there was talk about april, and since we are in the testing phase, the release date should be near. - - I've being reading about a project to implement cryptography on Openmoko so the calls and text messages can be secured, unfortunately I forgot the name of the project but I've heard that voice calls can't be secured like that due limitations on the way GSM work. Is this correct? As far as I understood it, a GSoC-Project is a sms middleware, which should (theoretically) implement a way to simply encrypt with gpg the sms. Phone calls can't be encrypted that easilly because, as far as i understood it, the microphone is connected directly to the gsm chip. But we have many intelligent people here, so someone will probably find a way to do even that. Thanks and []s Adilson. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFIEIF/2cB5Bt7H7YARAud+AKCU9lMbjg857XttODOc+1V7GozvbgCfVxz5 5J0ahZkXOLyob7Gzs0ySGS4= =85Tz -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- My corner of the web: http://blog.ramsesoriginal.org ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA03 wish list (was: What US plans are people using?)
It's not a mass market device until you write the software to make it one. ;-) -Steven On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 12:46 PM, Kevin Dean [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Keep in mind that Freerunner is designed to be a mass market product. That's very true that this can be done but making that action a REQUIREMENT for consistant applications is directly opposite the ideas of a mass market device. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
OE error building xorg-xserver
Hi. I searched for the error and I noticed that someone else noticed it: http://pastebin.ca/995933 Regards, Nelson.- -- http://arhuaco.org ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: bulk order
Go direct, harry will handle your request _ From: Flemming Richter Mikkelsen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2008 5:35 AM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Cc: steve Subject: bulk order Hello Steve. Will it be possible for us in Europe to make a bulk order directly from Openmoko or do we need to shop from TRIsoft. I will order 20 Freerunners, and can save much money by ordering directly from OM. -=Flemming=- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Thoughts about calls not taken
Hi, On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 11:20 PM, Stefan Misch [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, I have an idea going through my mind about rejecting phone calls. Personally, I only use rejects if I ewant the calling party to *know* that I have rejected the call. For most cases, I prefer the ignore button, which just tuns off sound (and vibration if enabled). Thus the caller (salesman, unknown numder, etc) only knows that I didn't answer. What are your thoughts about this? What I would like is a general filter mechanism, kind of like an email spam filter, which would let me filter on any number of arguments (calling number, called number (if we ever get multiple numbers on our mobile phones), presence status (and calendar busy / free status), time, and more). And I should be able to program any possible action for my filters, like - direct to voicemail, call forward, call reject, and so on. Anyway, that is what I wish for. -- Regards, Torfinn Ingolfsen ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: bulk order
with shipping in EU for EUR 15 - does that make pulster.de the cheapest to the UK? That would be better than USD399 + USD 55 shipping from openmoko.org + USD 100 UK import taxes and UPS fee (shipping and import costs are a guess based based on last time with my neo) Stefan Misch [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello Flemming, you could also try pulster.de I'm not sure about their shipping policy to other countries than Germany but they're targetting a price of 300 Euro per unit. All best, Stefan Flemming Richter Mikkelsen wrote: Hello Steve. Will it be possible for us in Europe to make a bulk order directly from Openmoko or do we need to shop from TRIsoft. I will order 20 Freerunners, and can save much money by ordering directly from OM. -=Flemming=- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
10 PACK UPDATE!!!
I decided to do something EXTRA for the groups of people who are uniting to execute a group sales. Every 10 pack, will come with a box of stuff. 10 pouches and 10 head sets. So if you join a group sales organization and buy with other people, then the 10 pack will include these extras. Sean and I are so happy with the way the community is coming together around this idea of group sales that it just made sense. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: Freerunner AC adaptor.. Kevin dean you there?
my razr charger draws 850. I haven't check my igo charger, Kevin is the IGO usb 100ma or 500ma? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of ian douglas Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 3:37 PM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: Re: Freerunner AC adaptor Just as a comparison, since my workplace just got me a Blackberry World Phone (8830), here's a photo of the power adapters that come with it, which I guess connect to the standard American power plug. http://www.flickr.com/photos/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/2435261066/ For what it's worth, the Blackberry charger also ends in a USB plug, but I didn't check the wall plug portion to see how many mA it draws. -id ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: 10 PACK UPDATE!!!
Ack. I feel so lonely :P (I'm in Argentina) On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 4:44 PM, steve [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I decided to do something EXTRA for the groups of people who are uniting to execute a group sales. Every 10 pack, will come with a box of stuff. 10 pouches and 10 head sets. So if you join a group sales organization and buy with other people, then the 10 pack will include these extras. Sean and I are so happy with the way the community is coming together around this idea of group sales that it just made sense. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Group sales Sweden, Stockholm
Just a reminder of Group Sales to Stockholm, Sweden. Register your interest in the wiki: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GroupSales If a group of 10 is reached does Openmoko send the packages to the first name on the list ? Regards - Ingi ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Freerunner AC adaptor.. Kevin dean you there?
My new Blackberry 8830 charger draws 500mA -id For what it's worth, the Blackberry charger also ends in a USB plug, but I didn't check the wall plug portion to see how many mA it draws. -id ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Freerunner AC adaptor.. Kevin dean you there?
On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 3:47 PM, steve [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: my razr charger draws 850. I haven't check my igo charger, Kevin is the IGO usb 100ma or 500ma? This may be a trick question... I don't have an AC iGo, I have a DC iGO car charger. http://info.igo.com/mobility/datasheets/auto8.pdf -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of ian douglas Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 3:37 PM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: Re: Freerunner AC adaptor Just as a comparison, since my workplace just got me a Blackberry World Phone (8830), here's a photo of the power adapters that come with it, which I guess connect to the standard American power plug. http://www.flickr.com/photos/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/2435261066/ For what it's worth, the Blackberry charger also ends in a USB plug, but I didn't check the wall plug portion to see how many mA it draws. -id ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: bulk order
Try here: http://freeyourphone.de/forum/index.php?topic=44.0 :) Andre Lanvermann wrote: btw, is there a german group order running? I would like to participate ;-) Greetings Phanti steve schrieb: -- Go direct, harry will handle your request *From:* Flemming Richter Mikkelsen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *Sent:* Wednesday, April 23, 2008 5:35 AM *To:* List for Openmoko community discussion *Cc:* steve *Subject:* bulk order Hello Steve. Will it be possible for us in Europe to make a bulk order directly from Openmoko or do we need to shop from TRIsoft. I will order 20 Freerunners, and can save much money by ordering directly from OM. -=Flemming=- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: GTA03 wish list (was: What US plans are people using?)
We had a many debates about this: finger fans on one side, stylus guys on the other side. In the end the spirit of openness prevailed. Since its open source we cannot require or determine or impose any kind of thou shalt not use thy finger or thou shalt use the stylus Generally speaking I think a good portion of us in OM, would like to see a finger thing, falling back to stylus when the finger simply cannot do the job. So internally a flexible pragmatic philosophy, externally, folks can do whatever floats their boat. as it should be. So, the Box contains a stylus. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kevin Dean Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2008 10:00 AM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: Re: GTA03 wish list (was: What US plans are people using?) On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 12:30 PM, Stroller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: One of the objectives of openmoko is to no need to use the stylus at all ... When devels talk about mokofy (port to openmoko) some aplication one of the chalenges is to use it with out stylus. Either this is NOT a real goal of Openmoko or the developers suck at it. There are SEVERAL applications on Openmoko that require a stylus (many of the games, for instance). As far as I know, the criteria Openmoko apps must be usable with fingers has never been set. http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2008-April/016014.html Pardon me if I'm mistaken, but the person who said that isn't a developer, let alone someone with the authority to ensure the developers comply with that directive on Openmoko released applications. I was VERY pleased the other day to read this, as I find it fiddly to mess around with a stylus. I hate the stylus with a PASSION too. In my opinion, this is NOT a GTA03 issue but a GTA02 issue. There's debate ove the box contents of the Freerunner. If the box does NOT include a stylus, I think the software applications MUST be written in a way that is functional without it. I'm of the opinion that everything needed to use the device must be included in the box. You don't NEED an SD card to use the Freerunner but you DO need a battery. If the software that will be Openmoko REQUIRES a stylus, I think it's really a crappy thing to do for Openmoko NOT to ship one with the box. Making this decision is, in my opinion, important NOW. Despite previous phones I've owned having stylus holders, I have always lost them. I guess a stylus holder simply doesn't actually _hold_ so well. The idea of a device that does everything is to eliminate the need to carry around an address book, an ipod, a GPS navigation device, a calculator and so on. Without a way to tuck the stylus away it's adding to the number of items a person has to carry around (and track). I personally carry my Neo, my wallet and my car keys (which actually CAN work as a stylus, as long as I'm not driving). I don't carry a pen and I don't carry a stylus. A dependancy on the stylus on the applications would INCREASE the number of things I have to carry around (which to me, decreases the value of a Neo). Apart from this, it always seems to me much more natural to use my fingers, but of course on previous phones the on-screen buttons are too small. I would love a link, if anyone has one, to official developer documentation stating the no-stylus requirement. As far as I know, there isn't one. In fact, I think the guildelines for application development are either non-existant, incomplete or flat out disregarded. This is something that raises a bit of uncertainty... What toolkits are supposed to be used? (GTK is in the default image, but Illume is an Openmoko project that uses EFL... Should EFL be considered a part of the default Openmoko stack? What UI conventions are there? Some Openmoko apps use popups (like adding a new contact from dialer) where as the vast majority of others use a tab based system (like adding a new playlist in Media Player). From my perspective, there's not much organization on what actually should happen on Openmoko to keep things consistant (keeping in mind that the KDE/Gnome working together like crap is a BIG reason GNU/Linux looses mass appeal - people demand consistancy. It's why Apple's products are instantly recognizable and revered for being sexy.) Stroller. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Freerunner AC adaptor.. Kevin dean you there?
So... Here's the magical question. How would an average user like myself find that out without buying equipment to test it if the manufacturer didn't include actualy numbers (or in my case, if the manufacturer specifies a range of possibilities)? On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 3:59 PM, ian douglas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My new Blackberry 8830 charger draws 500mA -id For what it's worth, the Blackberry charger also ends in a USB plug, but I didn't check the wall plug portion to see how many mA it draws. -id ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: bulk order
check the wiki, group sales -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Andre Lanvermann Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2008 12:35 PM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: Re: bulk order btw, is there a german group order running? I would like to participate ;-) Greetings Phanti steve schrieb: -- Go direct, harry will handle your request *From:* Flemming Richter Mikkelsen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *Sent:* Wednesday, April 23, 2008 5:35 AM *To:* List for Openmoko community discussion *Cc:* steve *Subject:* bulk order Hello Steve. Will it be possible for us in Europe to make a bulk order directly from Openmoko or do we need to shop from TRIsoft. I will order 20 Freerunners, and can save much money by ordering directly from OM. -=Flemming=- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: bulk order
Yes, on http://freeyourphone.de/forum/index.php?topic=79.msg503#new we are happy when you will join us... Greets Stefan Andre Lanvermann wrote: btw, is there a german group order running? I would like to participate ;-) Greetings Phanti steve schrieb: -- Go direct, harry will handle your request *From:* Flemming Richter Mikkelsen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *Sent:* Wednesday, April 23, 2008 5:35 AM *To:* List for Openmoko community discussion *Cc:* steve *Subject:* bulk order Hello Steve. Will it be possible for us in Europe to make a bulk order directly from Openmoko or do we need to shop from TRIsoft. I will order 20 Freerunners, and can save much money by ordering directly from OM. -=Flemming=- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Newbee wants to kick start - encrypted calls
Crane, Matthew wrote: Not sure if there's a specific project, I'm hoping to do some sort of analog encryption, with audio effects and inverse effects, such that it does not need to be digitally decoded, where the excellent pattern recognition engine in the brain does most of the work. You can't do much. It has to 'sound' voice-like to the multiple codecs in the signal chain of a GSM call, or the codec just discards the sound. Listen to a voice over a good GSM line. It's quite well reproduced. Now, listen to an assortment of music. Some will come out quite well, and be reproduced much like they came out. Some are utterly shredded. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Iowa Group Buy
Anyone interested in a group buy in Iowa, add yourself to the wiki page: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/OpenMoko_Local_Groups:_Iowa-Ames -Steven ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Utah Group buy?
Are there enough of us in Utah to bother? Maybe I can join the Denver group if not. :) ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: 10 PACK UPDATE!!!
Wow, great, fantastic! Openmoko, we 3 u! Thats a great Idea! On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 9:44 PM, steve [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I decided to do something EXTRA for the groups of people who are uniting to execute a group sales. Every 10 pack, will come with a box of stuff. 10 pouches and 10 head sets. So if you join a group sales organization and buy with other people, then the 10 pack will include these extras. Sean and I are so happy with the way the community is coming together around this idea of group sales that it just made sense. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- My corner of the web: http://blog.ramsesoriginal.org ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Newbee wants to kick start - second try
On Thursday 24 April 2008, Adilson Oliveira wrote: - I've being reading about a project to implement cryptography on Openmoko so the calls and text messages can be secured, unfortunately I forgot the name of the project but I've heard that voice calls can't be secured like that due limitations on the way GSM work. Is this correct? GSM voice calls probably can't be encrypted, but VoIP calls can, and a basic GSM data call _may_ be able to carry this reliably. You should be able to find some discussion of this in the archives, including a link to video of a presentation on this. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Switzerland - group order
Hi there, We got more than 10 users saying interrest[1] in GTA02 buying. A list has been setup for thoses who are ready to group order[2]. If I count right, not all the user who are on [1] have added their name on [2]. Please pass the word to let all the users register on the [2] :) Right now I'm not sure about the current status, prices, delays and payement arrangements. Would be nice to get more info from the one who will pass the order ;) [1] http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/OpenMoko_Local_Groups:_Switzerland [2] http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GroupSales#Switzerland -- Alexandre ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Group sales Sweden, Stockholm
2008/4/24, Ingvaldur Sigurjónsson [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Just a reminder of Group Sales to Stockholm, Sweden. [...] If a group of 10 is reached does Openmoko send the packages to the first name on the list ? I'm guessing one of us will have to collect the money and pay for the whole 10-pack, which will be shipped to that person. I'm sure the seller doesn't want to deal with more than one person. So there will be an issue of trust - if we in advance pay one person to order the 10-pack, we have to trust that he/she actually gives us the phones when they arrive, if we don't pay in advance, the person ordering will have to spend a fairly large amount of money before he gets it back, and hope that the others actually want their phones when they arrive and pay for them. I guess one way to handle this would be for, say, the buyers to pay half the cost in advance, and the other half when the phones arrive. Or we just decide to trust each other ;-) FWIW, I have a company which could make the order and then 're-sell' the phones to those who participate in the 10-pack. But I'd be afraid that the company would automatically from a legal point of view assume guarantee responsibilities, etc. So maybe it is best to handle the order just between us as private individuals. If we don't get 10 people in Stockholm or Sweden for that matter, I guess we could calculate the shipping fees to see if it pays off to join with other people in Scandinavia/Europe who don't make a full 10-pack either, instead of ordering individual phones. Optimally, we'd convice/evangelize friends to get the Freerunner, so we end up with a full 10-pack. But I feel that some of these discussions are getting ahead of themselves - let's just wait until the phone is released, see exactly how much the different options cost (shipping direct from OpenMoko, via European dealers etc) and then discuss what's best to do. /Erland ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Don't ship GTA02v5 without the rework
A long time ago I bougt a phone, a Motorola A835. He ad a led under a joysick, but it was disabled. And it was also multicolor. It was so disabled that I know about it only after one year playing with a flesh software. I didn't died with without the let. May be that Motorola had the same problem :) but it didn't spoke. Which hw was more bugged? I totally agree with you. I understand everybody is happy to see the neo coming, but don't forget the goal :) : to provides the best free phones. It wouldn't be pleasant for us to by a phone, knowing there is a known issue with optimisation of power consumption and LED stuff.. I understand the rush ;) but we can wait... Maybe you can, and in that case, feel free to wait until the v6 hits the shop. But why should that stop the production of the v5? It all still sounds like just turning off the leds solves the problem, I don't consider that to be a showstopper. If there were no leds at all, i'd still would have bought it... AVee ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: 10 PACK UPDATE!!!
a pouch, a headset ... and a the Y cable(or the cable+connectors+schema to do it yourself) . Well, I have to try it ;) steve [EMAIL PROTECTED] escribió: I decided to do something EXTRA for the groups of people who are uniting to execute a group sales. Every 10 pack, will come with a box of stuff. 10 pouches and 10 head sets. So if you join a group sales organization and buy with other people, then the 10 pack will include these extras. Sean and I are so happy with the way the community is coming together around this idea of group sales that it just made sense. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community - Enviado desde Correo Yahoo! La bandeja de entrada más inteligente. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Vienna - group order
Willing to build a group for ordering here in vienna, austria - maybe austria in general. pls contact me directly to my gmx account. daniel ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA03 wish list (was: What US plans are people using?)
Challenge is not a obligation nor a contract nor even a requirement , but if neo's has been designed without any stylus holder is because the intention is not to need it in day by day (common) use, but there is a lot of good stylus friendly applications out there ready to be used so every is free include it in his neo and OM with his package manager for sure will be happy to include in his repository to an easy and happy install.them But for sure a lot of this applications can become(or new ones directly created to be) finger friendly and if anybody (OM team included) consider that this worth the effort it will do. As long I was able to see naturally those applications that make sense to be managed on the run(phone calls/messaging, players, gps even a doc viewer) will be more likely to be used by fingers only; but those that need more attention to manage and a lot of features/options/paremetric/precision needing will be more difficult and meaningless to be managed without stylus. A better description about soft included or to be included finger/stylus ready here And now will come the free source magic, that a lot of newcomers, and even lazy veterans are afraid of... If you don't like it , you are free to change it or try to convince any one to do it for you, to do so try good arguments and reasons and if it doesn't work try to use the money , it's incredible how many developers agree to work for money ;) An remember if you don't want to carry the stylus everywhere you can always enter a bar and take a toothstick :) (for sure I will have to do it more than one time) Kevin Dean [EMAIL PROTECTED] escribió: On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 1:28 PM, Steven ** wrote: I don't think the games were ported. I thought they were just a simply cross-compile to show that they would work on Openmoko. I think the intention is that you should be able to do most things without a stylus. It says essentially that on http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Applications#Overview That said, this is opensource! You can't force every developer to design their program for finger operation. A point of clarification... I'm not referring to every app, I'm referring specifically to the applications that Openmoko will be releasing. Perhaps this is an incorrect assumption, but I am under the impression that Openmoko Inc. will be writing and releasing software to do the things their hardware devices are advertised as being able to do. They say GPS Navigation and I assume Openmoko Inc. will provide customers with a GPS navigation application. Same for dialer (since the device is advertised as being able to make phone calls) and so on. the device isn't advertised as a home automation remote control, but it MIGHT be if the user decided to go beyond what the consumer device is being sold to do. Someone can write an application in Qt 4.4 and SAY it's a Gnome application, but it's not. Likewise, if it doesn't conform to the guidelines specified for Openmoko it's not really an Openmoko app, if that makes sense. Some app just might not be usable without a stylus and that's up to the developer. If you don't like it, modify the source and change the GUI. Keep in mind that Freerunner is designed to be a mass market product. That's very true that this can be done but making that action a REQUIREMENT for consistant applications is directly opposite the ideas of a mass market device. The one thing I've written[1] was specifically designed to be finger-friendly as I don't intend to carry a stylus around with me either. -Steven [1] http://projects.openmoko.org/projects/moko-sudoku/ On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 12:00 PM, Kevin Dean wrote: On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 12:30 PM, Stroller wrote: One of the objectives of openmoko is to no need to use the stylus at all ... When devels talk about mokofy (port to openmoko) some aplication one of the chalenges is to use it with out stylus. Either this is NOT a real goal of Openmoko or the developers suck at it. There are SEVERAL applications on Openmoko that require a stylus (many of the games, for instance). As far as I know, the criteria Openmoko apps must be usable with fingers has never been set. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community - Enviado desde Correo Yahoo! La bandeja de entrada más inteligente. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Video Playback virtually impossible on Neo Freerunner? (Re: Video of Qt 4.4 on Neo1973: brings iPhone like graphics)
Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote: what freerunner *IS* good at is nice high resolution still images. it is NOT good at motion (animation). that's possibly the simplest way i know to describe its graphics :) great for ebook and text reading. great for your high-res photos. don't expect a media-center out of it with swooshy bits and fanciness and video at wonderful quality and resolutions and framerates. And... How do you consider mapping softwares, for example? I know they don't require so much video output, but the CPU has to decode the maps! I really hope this has nothing to do with this issue (or that is poorly affected) since, it will be another important issue (and quite more blocker imho). -- Treviño's World - Life and Linux http://www.3v1n0.net/ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Group ordering details?
Hi, Is it too early in the game to start worrying about group ordering details? Specifically: * How do we pay? (one lump sum, or can individuals from the group pay you directly) * How are the phones shipped? Can we request that they be sent via FedEx Bill to Recipient? A member of our group works for FedEx and gets free shipping. * What happens if we have more than 10 people that want phones? (these are all being asked by the Colorado group, guys chime in if I forgot anything). Thanks! . . . Shawn Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Utah Group buy?
We have 8 phones lined up for the Colorado group! (assuming everyone that emailed me still wants one). - Original Message From: Michael Heinrich [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: List for Openmoko community discussion community@lists.openmoko.org Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2008 3:24:41 PM Subject: Re: Utah Group buy? Not sure about Washington too. Maybe a coop? On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 1:54 PM, Travis Tabbal [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Are there enough of us in Utah to bother? Maybe I can join the Denver group if not. :) ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Youtube Video Playback on Neo Freerunner? (Re: Video Playback virtually impossible on Neo Freerunner?)
Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote: i can say now - 320x240 mpeg4 video with mplayer using xvideo on the gta02 even can't play at 30fps. i was wrong with my guess. it is dropping 25% of the frames. so as such actually i correct this. i was too optimistic. you can more likely manage 20fps @ 320x240. this is mpeg4 - so mpeg1 and 2 may be better as they are simpler codecs. do remember when i say resolution - i mean the video itself. the hardware can SCALE it to fill the screen, but this is taking 320x240 video and scaling it up (adding blur) so of course the quality isn't that good. remember too that color information is half that resolution in each dimension again (160x120 - though depends on codec). Well, I was thinking to youtube videos streaming... Since it will be impossible to see them in embedded browser (without local javascript hacks), I guess that we could use an application (if I'm not wrong someone is developing it on projects.openmoko.org) that fetches and plays (on streaming too) the videos in other formats supported by youtube (you can test them using youtube-dl -f value url [1]) The formats (fmt) that should work with no problems are: * 13: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 3gpp file so H.263 video and AMR Narrowband audio * 15: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mp4 file with MPEG4 video and AAC audio Another format that maybe works on streaming (if I've not misunderstood what has been stated) is * 5: [EMAIL PROTECTED] flv file Maybe too low, but... I think that actually it's the best way quality we can get without rencoding it locally or simply without using a 3rd party server doing this work for us on the fly. [1] http://www.arrakis.es/~rggi3/youtube-dl/ -- Treviño's World - Life and Linux http://www.3v1n0.net/ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
NZ Group order
I've got approval from my er, financial controller :) , so I've stuck my name down on the Auckland list. Cheers, David Murrell ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Youtube Video Playback on Neo Freerunner? (Re: Video Playback virtually impossible on Neo Freerunner?)
On Fri, 25 Apr 2008 03:38:24 +0200 Marco Trevisan (Treviño) [EMAIL PROTECTED] babbled: Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote: i can say now - 320x240 mpeg4 video with mplayer using xvideo on the gta02 even can't play at 30fps. i was wrong with my guess. it is dropping 25% of the frames. so as such actually i correct this. i was too optimistic. you can more likely manage 20fps @ 320x240. this is mpeg4 - so mpeg1 and 2 may be better as they are simpler codecs. do remember when i say resolution - i mean the video itself. the hardware can SCALE it to fill the screen, but this is taking 320x240 video and scaling it up (adding blur) so of course the quality isn't that good. remember too that color information is half that resolution in each dimension again (160x120 - though depends on codec). Well, I was thinking to youtube videos streaming... Since it will be impossible to see them in embedded browser (without local javascript hacks), I guess that we could use an application (if I'm not wrong someone is developing it on projects.openmoko.org) that fetches and plays (on streaming too) the videos in other formats supported by youtube (you can test them using youtube-dl -f value url [1]) The formats (fmt) that should work with no problems are: * 13: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 3gpp file so H.263 video and AMR Narrowband audio * 15: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mp4 file with MPEG4 video and AAC audio these will work - or should. just a matter of enough software in userspace. Another format that maybe works on streaming (if I've not misunderstood what has been stated) is * 5: [EMAIL PROTECTED] flv file no - not going to work. 21fps at best. :( Maybe too low, but... I think that actually it's the best way quality we can get without rencoding it locally or simply without using a 3rd party server doing this work for us on the fly. [1] http://www.arrakis.es/~rggi3/youtube-dl/ -- Treviño's World - Life and Linux http://www.3v1n0.net/ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Group ordering details?
Yes, and should we be adding our name to the wiki under Denver? On Thursday 24 April 2008 18:56:34 Shawn wrote: Hi, Is it too early in the game to start worrying about group ordering details? Specifically: * How do we pay? (one lump sum, or can individuals from the group pay you directly) * How are the phones shipped? Can we request that they be sent via FedEx Bill to Recipient? A member of our group works for FedEx and gets free shipping. * What happens if we have more than 10 people that want phones? (these are all being asked by the Colorado group, guys chime in if I forgot anything). Thanks! . . . Shawn ___ _ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Group ordering details?
I imagine that one of the 10 people who wants to be part of the bulk order will be responsible for collecting the funds from the other 9 orders, waiting for checks to clear, etc., and then place the order with OpenMoko. It's really up to the group. I know personally I'd hate to pony up the $3690 plus taxes plus shipping for a box of phones and THEN worry about how I'm going to get money from everyone who wants one ... I'd want their money up front, and it'll take trust on both sides, same as if you order something online. But paying someone with paypal can also be abused, etc., which is why so many local groups are forming. Just my $0.02. -id Shawn wrote: Hi, Is it too early in the game to start worrying about group ordering details? Specifically: * How do we pay? (one lump sum, or can individuals from the group pay you directly) * How are the phones shipped? Can we request that they be sent via FedEx Bill to Recipient? A member of our group works for FedEx and gets free shipping. * What happens if we have more than 10 people that want phones? (these are all being asked by the Colorado group, guys chime in if I forgot anything). Thanks! . . . Shawn Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=51733/*http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
