Re: List of bluetooth headsets
On Saturday 01 August 2009, fredrik normann wrote: Does headset with jackout exist as well, would be cool to have a jack out on the headset for connecting to a HiFi Stereo... :) Jabra BT3030, and at least one Motorola model. Both are small units with built in mic and 3.5mm headphone socket, and have buttons to control media playback via AVRCP. I think the Motorola has an LCD too, for display of track info and caller id. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [fso] rules for bluetooth headset: BTHeadsetIsConnected() is always true
On Saturday 01 August 2009, arne anka wrote: the rules listed for bt headsets http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Manually_using_Bluetooth#Once_Again.2C_Blue tooth_Headset_on_Freerunner use a filter BTHeadsetIsConnected() which seems to me quite unreliable. where does fso get its ideas from about connected headsets? - even if i disable bluetooth, still the filter applies - even if the headset ist off, the filter applies - even if Headset.Disconnect returns a Disconnect failed: org.bluez.Error.NotConnected, the filter applies that means, that gsmhandset.state never is loaded again, making it impossible to make or answer calls. At present the headset connection seems to be read from the config file at daemon startup, and doesn't seem changeable without editing the config file and restarting the daemons. I can only assume the plan is to make these changes in response to bluez signals, but that it hasn't been implemented yet. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
some troubles with DIY buzz fix.
Hello, list. My heart is always strongly hurt that I realise that person at other side of the line hear that buzz, Germany is far from Saint-Petersburg, so I were brave enought to try doing buzz-fix with my own hands. Should notice that I never did soldering of small parts. Measure that resisance, got 2k2 and bought 9 capacitors (had to go shop 2 times). I can tell now that details on old videocard are really huge. Slowly getting 'skill', I finally soldered 4th capacitor (3 first got broken legs, 3rd was very close to being final), buzz gone almost completely - only very distant, near 5% of buzz sometimes heard, GSM sounds excellent from any point of view, all seem OK, expept one thing... That is touchscreen. Foto with Sketch with horizontal and vertical parallel lines drawn by finger: http://www.bsdmn.com/moko/touchproblem.tif Can anyone help me with advice? Should I resolder, desolder, buy other capacitor, or may be it is completely broken because it is very heat sensitive? I really want to avoid doing that procedure once again... Or should i start patching literki to be in upper part of screen again? LCD itself works fine. I was ready to share success story :( Gennady. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Best Distro to use bluetooth headset
I tried your suggestion but that got me nowhere fast lol. Maybe I'm just not smart enough to get it working through commands. Are there any distro's that already have some apps to do that for me? Unfortunately, bluetooth calling support is preset but woefully inadequate. SHR will use it, but you have to restart some services (or reboot) to turn BT on or off. Other than that, it works. Look at the 'Manually Using Bluetooth' wiki page. -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/Best-Distro-to-use-bluetooth-headset-tp3371068p3373056.html Sent from the Openmoko Community mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: some troubles with DIY buzz fix.
On Sun, Aug 2, 2009 at 5:52 PM, Gennady Kupava g...@bsdmn.com wrote: Hello, list. My heart is always strongly hurt that I realise that person at other side of the line hear that buzz, Germany is far from Saint-Petersburg, so I were brave enought to try doing buzz-fix with my own hands. Should notice that I never did soldering of small parts. Measure that resisance, got 2k2 and bought 9 capacitors (had to go shop 2 times). I can tell now that details on old videocard are really huge. Slowly getting 'skill', I finally soldered 4th capacitor (3 first got broken legs, 3rd was very close to being final), buzz gone almost completely - only very distant, near 5% of buzz sometimes heard, GSM sounds excellent from any point of view, all seem OK, expept one thing... That is touchscreen. I think, as i could see in the image, that your LCD is borked. The LCD internal parts are really sensitive to hot temperatures. I recommend to replace the LCD. Foto with Sketch with horizontal and vertical parallel lines drawn by finger: http://www.bsdmn.com/moko/touchproblem.tif Can anyone help me with advice? Should I resolder, desolder, buy other capacitor, or may be it is completely broken because it is very heat sensitive? I really want to avoid doing that procedure once again... Or should i start patching literki to be in upper part of screen again? LCD itself works fine. I was ready to share success story :( Gennady. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community It's a success story, it improves your soldering skills. Those are the warnings of DIY. -- ___ Rafael Campos o0 Methril 0o http://openblog.methril.net/ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Document with answers to most popular battery-related questions is ready
Hi, This is a text version of the wikipage [1], feel free to ask new questions there on the talk page. Discussion on this ML is also appreciated (and in fact i'm more comfortable with ML than the wiki). Openmoko devices Battery questions and answers NB: Some of the described behaviour depends on the kernel, the relevant code was pushed on 02 Aug to andy-tracking Hardware capabilities Q: What batteries can be used with gta01 and gta02? A: Original OM gta01, gta02, Nokia BL-5C, BL-6C and compatibles. Q: Do other BL-5/6C compatible batteries fit? A: If the battery is thicker than BL-6C, you won't be able to close the back cover. Q: What is the difference between all those types? A: Capacity: gta01, gta02- 1200 mAh BL-5C old (newer/new) - 850 (970/1050) mAh BL-6C - 1150 mAh Temperature control: gta01, BL-5C, BL-6C - thermistor gta02 - bq27000 Special features: gta02 - accurate and sophisticated reporting of capacity, time_to_full, time_to_empty, temperature and battery current during both charge and discharge thanks to bq27000 (aka Coloumb Counter) Q: What are hardware capabilities of gta01 and gta02 with regard to battery management? A: gta01: charging all battery types, measuring temperature with battery-integrated thermistor (currently charging and measuring temperature for non-gta01 batteries doesn't work due to the kernel driver issues but it's software limitation), measuring battery output voltage, very inaccurate and noisy measuring of battery current gta02: charging all battery types, measuring battery output voltage, communicating with bq27000 Q: Can nokia phones use/charge gta01/gta02 batteries? A: gta01 and gta02 batteries will fit wherever BL-6C fits but they can't be charged in nokia phones unless you isolate the middle pin from the battery and connect a resistor of ~50k (actual measured value on a cold (25C) battery is 75k, on a slightly warm battery - 82k) from it to the ground (to fake a thermistor presence). Q: Can third-party chargers charge gta01/gta02 batteries? A: The good ones will most probably require the same trick needed for nokia phones. More cheaper ones are more likely to ignore thermistor absence. Q: I have several compatible batteries. What are the storage requirements for them? A: Keep in a dry cool place charged to no more than 75%. Safety issues Q: Do OM devices control temperature to stop charging if the battery gets too hot? A: No (probably gta01 does, need to check). Q: Isn't it dangerous? A: No, since all batteries (not raw cells!) have an integrated protection circuits. Q: Can i use that fancy 2800 mAh BL-5C-compatible battery i saw on ebay? A: Unless you want an explosion in your pocket i wouldn't recommend using any battery that is not produced by a reputable vendor and widely tested. And even reputable vendors make mistakes, nokia once had to recall 46 million batteries manufactured by Matsushita ( http://batteryreplacement.nokia.com/batteryreplacement/en/advisory-2007.html ). Q: You say that BL-5C is compatible with my gta02. Does that mean i can use that BL-5C-compatible bat i bought for a buck from a bum? A: You bet, go ahead. Charging Q: My battery charges to 100% but then charging stops and the battery keeps discharging, wtf? A: LiIon batteries don't like to be kept fully charged, so the charger stops as soon as charging current becomes less than threshold. If you have GSM on it will discharge the battery. Q: But why doesn't it ever stop charging on my device? A: The GSM modem is connected directly to the battery terminals so if it's active, charger will think it's still charging the battery and won't turn off unless GSM becomes inactive. The default threshold is about 16mA, the latest Qi increases the threshold to ~32mA. Q: Does it mean if i leave my phone plugged it will eventually fully discharge the battery? A: On gta02 the charger will restart the charge automatically once the battery voltage reaches ~4V which corresponds to ~76%. Not sure about gta01, requires more investigation. :-/ Q: Ok, how to make sure my battery is fully charged before a long trip? A: Replug the charger, it will trigger charging no matter what the current capacity is. Q: My power/aux LED indicates charging/discharging/whatever, what does that mean (aka why it's still blue even after i unplugged the charger)? A: Ask FSO guys about it, some of them think that the user shouldn't really know what's happening and therefore they do some special mangling of status sysfs node before presenting it to the user. If you want to make a decent bugreport please add clear steps to reproduce and /sys/class/power_supply/battery/uevent contents for all relevant states. Using compatible batteries with gta02 Q: So, how do i use dumb batteries with my freerunner? A: First you need to unbind bq27000 driver: echo bq27000-battery.0 /sys/bus/platform/drivers/bq27000-battery/unbind Then you load the dumb battery driver:
Re: [qtmoko] Not recieving all sms
Alexander Syring wrote: I have a problem with x5 friends of mine send me a sms and the status report came for they that the sms was recieved but my phone won't show the sms, In the logs I read I have 10 sms on my card but they won't be load off. How could I read the sms? Hi Alexander, could you send the log? Can you also try to delete SMS on your sim? I dont have much experience with GSM but i could try to take a look at it. Btw i have just tried send SMS to my phone and it worked. Radek ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [fso] rules for bluetooth headset: BTHeadsetIsConnected() is always true
At present the headset connection seems to be read from the config file at daemon startup, and doesn't seem changeable without editing the config file and restarting the daemons. I can only assume the plan is to make these changes in response to bluez signals, but that it hasn't been implemented yet. there's a fso dbus command/signal/whatchamaycallit, that sets the value of frinst bt-headset-enabled -- interestingly, the rules.yaml is rewritten, not just some runtime variable. getting the value afterwards indeed returns the new one, but apparently the relevant subsystem keeps its own copy and never re-checks. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Document with answers to most popular battery-related questions is ready
Paul Joerg, this is an excellent document, obviously I cannot spot anything wrong! I didn't know that some external chargers would not charge gta01 or gta02 batteries because of the thermistor check you are writing about. All the cheap external chargers we bought in Taiwan or China for testing can charge both gta01 or gta02 batteries without a problem. I have a question for all: We will ship our first NanoNote with a BL-4C compatible battery, without Coulomb counter (middle pin unused) [1]. How are people really using the Coulomb counter in gta02? Theoretically I would think that it provides far superior power measurement options for actual software development, just as you write. For example when playing with power saving codes, whether in the kernel, middleware or applications, I would think over the course of several hours or days the Coulomb counter data is the primary means for efficient development. So we are considering shipping the next version of the NanoNote with Coulomb counter batteries same as the Neo FreeRunner. But if nobody is actually using the data from the Coulomb counter, then it's a wasted effort. What do you think? Was the addition of the Coulomb counter in gta02 really a useful thing? Did FSO developers or kernel developers use the data for power optimizations? Thanks, Wolfgang [1] http://www.qi-hardware.com/products/ben-nanonote On Sun, Aug 02, 2009 at 09:07:39PM +0400, Paul Fertser wrote: Hi, This is a text version of the wikipage [1], feel free to ask new questions there on the talk page. Discussion on this ML is also appreciated (and in fact i'm more comfortable with ML than the wiki). Openmoko devices Battery questions and answers NB: Some of the described behaviour depends on the kernel, the relevant code was pushed on 02 Aug to andy-tracking Hardware capabilities Q: What batteries can be used with gta01 and gta02? A: Original OM gta01, gta02, Nokia BL-5C, BL-6C and compatibles. Q: Do other BL-5/6C compatible batteries fit? A: If the battery is thicker than BL-6C, you won't be able to close the back cover. Q: What is the difference between all those types? A: Capacity: gta01, gta02 - 1200 mAh BL-5C old (newer/new) - 850 (970/1050) mAh BL-6C - 1150 mAh Temperature control: gta01, BL-5C, BL-6C - thermistor gta02 - bq27000 Special features: gta02 - accurate and sophisticated reporting of capacity, time_to_full, time_to_empty, temperature and battery current during both charge and discharge thanks to bq27000 (aka Coloumb Counter) Q: What are hardware capabilities of gta01 and gta02 with regard to battery management? A: gta01: charging all battery types, measuring temperature with battery-integrated thermistor (currently charging and measuring temperature for non-gta01 batteries doesn't work due to the kernel driver issues but it's software limitation), measuring battery output voltage, very inaccurate and noisy measuring of battery current gta02: charging all battery types, measuring battery output voltage, communicating with bq27000 Q: Can nokia phones use/charge gta01/gta02 batteries? A: gta01 and gta02 batteries will fit wherever BL-6C fits but they can't be charged in nokia phones unless you isolate the middle pin from the battery and connect a resistor of ~50k (actual measured value on a cold (25C) battery is 75k, on a slightly warm battery - 82k) from it to the ground (to fake a thermistor presence). Q: Can third-party chargers charge gta01/gta02 batteries? A: The good ones will most probably require the same trick needed for nokia phones. More cheaper ones are more likely to ignore thermistor absence. Q: I have several compatible batteries. What are the storage requirements for them? A: Keep in a dry cool place charged to no more than 75%. Safety issues Q: Do OM devices control temperature to stop charging if the battery gets too hot? A: No (probably gta01 does, need to check). Q: Isn't it dangerous? A: No, since all batteries (not raw cells!) have an integrated protection circuits. Q: Can i use that fancy 2800 mAh BL-5C-compatible battery i saw on ebay? A: Unless you want an explosion in your pocket i wouldn't recommend using any battery that is not produced by a reputable vendor and widely tested. And even reputable vendors make mistakes, nokia once had to recall 46 million batteries manufactured by Matsushita ( http://batteryreplacement.nokia.com/batteryreplacement/en/advisory-2007.html ). Q: You say that BL-5C is compatible with my gta02. Does that mean i can use that BL-5C-compatible bat i bought for a buck from a bum? A: You bet, go ahead. Charging Q: My battery charges to 100% but then charging stops and the battery keeps discharging, wtf? A: LiIon batteries don't like to be kept fully charged, so the charger stops as soon as charging current becomes less than threshold. If you have GSM on
Re: Document with answers to most popular battery-related questions is ready
Wolfgang Spraul wolfg...@qi-hardware.com writes: this is an excellent document, obviously I cannot spot anything wrong! Thanks for you kind words. :) I didn't know that some external chargers would not charge gta01 or gta02 batteries because of the thermistor check you are writing about. I'm not sure i saw any charger like that myself or seen reports (except on our wiki). But i suspect the probability of that for nokia brand charges is quite high. All the cheap external chargers we bought in Taiwan or China for testing can charge both gta01 or gta02 batteries without a problem. Proves my point :D I have a question for all: We will ship our first NanoNote with a BL-4C compatible battery, without Coulomb counter (middle pin unused) [1]. Hm, can BL-5C fit there? Because it'd be much nicer as modern 5Cs have quite some capacity. How are people really using the Coulomb counter in gta02? Theoretically I would think that it provides far superior power measurement options for actual software development, just as you write. For example when playing with power saving codes, whether in the kernel, middleware or applications, I would think over the course of several hours or days the Coulomb counter data is the primary means for efficient development. To me it seems that CC readings are almost unused except for presenting the user with a bit more accurate capacity data. And when someone is developing something lowlevel he could as well connect and external ampmeter, much more reliable and flexible approach. So we are considering shipping the next version of the NanoNote with Coulomb counter batteries same as the Neo FreeRunner. But if nobody is actually using the data from the Coulomb counter, then it's a wasted effort. I'm not sure you'll get much for using CC. The only problem so far with using a dumb battery on FR is that there's no way to know the current from inside the device. On gta01 there's a resistor shunt supposed to be used to measure the current but readings are too noisy to be useable. So if you have a good way to measure current already i'd not go for CC. -- Be free, use free (http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html) software! mailto:fercer...@gmail.com ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Best Distro to use bluetooth headset
Nope. Bluetooth is quite experimental at this stage. Apparently, the devs didn't realize people wanted BT support, so they never finished it. I've been rallying the ranks trying to make it quite clear that we do, indeed, want good bluetooth support. In the mean time, it's functional, but not pretty. The correct page to use is: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Manually_using_Bluetooth#Once_Again.2C_Bluetooth_Headset_on_Freerunnerbut note that those instructions are for SHR unstable, and may or may not work on other distros. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Best Distro to use bluetooth headset
Nope. Bluetooth is quite experimental at this stage. Apparently, the devs didn't realize people wanted BT support, so they never finished it. I've been rallying the ranks trying to make it quite clear that we do, indeed, want good bluetooth support. In the mean time, it's functional, but not pretty. Thanks I'll try that out. And I think it's dumb that bluetooth doesn't work correctly seeing as how it's one of the only ways to make clear phone calls without the buzzfix. My phone is useless right now and I'm starting to get the feeling that I wasted my $400 on a phone which was supposed to work... Maybe my next phone will be.. an IPHONE -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/Best-Distro-to-use-bluetooth-headset-tp3371068p3373515.html Sent from the Openmoko Community mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Best Distro to use bluetooth headset
abatrour abatr...@gmail.com writes: My phone is useless right now and I'm starting to get the feeling that I wasted my $400 on a phone which was supposed to work... Maybe my next phone will be.. an IPHONE Hahaha, how scary. -- Be free, use free (http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html) software! mailto:fercer...@gmail.com ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Best Distro to use bluetooth headset
On 8/2/09, abatrour abatr...@gmail.com wrote: My phone is useless right now and I'm starting to get the feeling that I wasted my $400 on a phone which was supposed to work... Maybe my next phone will be.. an IPHONE Then I think you did mistake. Freerunner is really not for you. And you should check it *before* buying, cause now you have useless phone and don't have $400... And don't blame anyone for that. That's *your* mistake. -- Sebastian Krzyszkowiak dos ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Best Distro to use bluetooth headset
Nah, get a G2 or something. iPhone is a rip-off. And if I were you, I'd just get a buzzfix. I'm sure someone on this list will be able to do it for you, if you pay shipping. Unfortunately, using bluetooth will not fix the GSM buzz (someone correct me if I'm wrong). I'm just lucky enough that I don't have it where I live, though I've been told it does happen in other places. I missed the bandwagon to have it fixed free, because I didn't want to give my phone up for the time to fix it, but I wish I had... I don't care what OpenMoko says, the FR is still a prototype phone. It's a revised prototype, but a prototype none the less. Personally, I enjoy playing with it, but it's not for everyone. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Document with answers to most popular battery-related questions is ready
Paul, We will ship our first NanoNote with a BL-4C compatible battery, without Coulomb counter (middle pin unused) [1]. Hm, can BL-5C fit there? Because it'd be much nicer as modern 5Cs have quite some capacity. It fits, but it's a bit too thick so it's hard to close the battery cover with a BL-5C (or gta02 battery) inside. Not recommended. The only problem so far with using a dumb battery on FR is that there's no way to know the current from inside the device. On gta01 there's a resistor shunt supposed to be used to measure the current but readings are too noisy to be useable. So if you have a good way to measure current already i'd not go for CC. Hmm, that's a pretty strong statement. At Openmoko we spent _a lot_ of money combined to get this CC thing to work. The theory was that you have it in most notebook batteries so it's 'a good thing to have'. But if it's not actually used, then it would be one of those many things we did that should have been better thought through. I will check with Adam about precise current measurements for the NanoNote, and still I would appreciate any feedback from other people who are using the CC data for something other than proving that we have it :-) Any Coulomb fans out there? Wolfgang On Sun, Aug 02, 2009 at 10:02:42PM +0400, Paul Fertser wrote: Wolfgang Spraul wolfg...@qi-hardware.com writes: this is an excellent document, obviously I cannot spot anything wrong! Thanks for you kind words. :) I didn't know that some external chargers would not charge gta01 or gta02 batteries because of the thermistor check you are writing about. I'm not sure i saw any charger like that myself or seen reports (except on our wiki). But i suspect the probability of that for nokia brand charges is quite high. All the cheap external chargers we bought in Taiwan or China for testing can charge both gta01 or gta02 batteries without a problem. Proves my point :D I have a question for all: We will ship our first NanoNote with a BL-4C compatible battery, without Coulomb counter (middle pin unused) [1]. Hm, can BL-5C fit there? Because it'd be much nicer as modern 5Cs have quite some capacity. How are people really using the Coulomb counter in gta02? Theoretically I would think that it provides far superior power measurement options for actual software development, just as you write. For example when playing with power saving codes, whether in the kernel, middleware or applications, I would think over the course of several hours or days the Coulomb counter data is the primary means for efficient development. To me it seems that CC readings are almost unused except for presenting the user with a bit more accurate capacity data. And when someone is developing something lowlevel he could as well connect and external ampmeter, much more reliable and flexible approach. So we are considering shipping the next version of the NanoNote with Coulomb counter batteries same as the Neo FreeRunner. But if nobody is actually using the data from the Coulomb counter, then it's a wasted effort. I'm not sure you'll get much for using CC. The only problem so far with using a dumb battery on FR is that there's no way to know the current from inside the device. On gta01 there's a resistor shunt supposed to be used to measure the current but readings are too noisy to be useable. So if you have a good way to measure current already i'd not go for CC. -- Be free, use free (http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html) software! mailto:fercer...@gmail.com ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Document with answers to most popular battery-related questions is ready
Wolfgang Spraul wolfg...@qi-hardware.com writes: We will ship our first NanoNote with a BL-4C compatible battery, without Coulomb counter (middle pin unused) [1]. Hm, can BL-5C fit there? Because it'd be much nicer as modern 5Cs have quite some capacity. It fits, but it's a bit too thick so it's hard to close the battery cover with a BL-5C (or gta02 battery) inside. Not recommended. gta02 battery is really thicker (~1mm) than BL-5C. It's BL-6C that is the same thickness as gta02 battery. The only problem so far with using a dumb battery on FR is that there's no way to know the current from inside the device. On gta01 there's a resistor shunt supposed to be used to measure the current but readings are too noisy to be useable. So if you have a good way to measure current already i'd not go for CC. Hmm, that's a pretty strong statement. At Openmoko we spent _a lot_ of money combined to get this CC thing to work. The theory was that you have it in most notebook batteries so it's 'a good thing to have'. You know, my notebook (Acer travelmate) has those advanced battery readings. But it didn't help it to not fuck up my battery completely while i constantly kept it connected to AC. The charging is not kernel controlled (probably there're some ACPI functions for that but who knows that shit...). So for me what matters is not advanced metering, for me it's proper battery charging management, i want my battery to last long. -- Be free, use free (http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html) software! mailto:fercer...@gmail.com ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Document with answers to most popular battery-related questions is ready
2009/8/2 Wolfgang Spraul wolfg...@qi-hardware.com Hmm, that's a pretty strong statement. At Openmoko we spent _a lot_ of money combined to get this CC thing to work. The theory was that you have it in most notebook batteries so it's 'a good thing to have'. But if it's not actually used, then it would be one of those many things we did that should have been better thought through. No, I think it was a very good decision. Not only low-level programmers need it, but also normal* users who want to know how long the battery lasts with certain configurations. I know for example that with gsm on it lasts about 50h in suspend, with gsm off about 100h, and with gps on about 8h without suspend, etc. And I could estimate this accurately overnight, and not by waiting 4 days. On the other hand, I have absolutely no idea how long my motorola battery lasts. It usually shows full for a few days and then drops really quickly. *if you can call FR users normal users ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [QtMoko] New debian images V5
Radek Polak wrote: Hi, new version of QtMoko debian images is uploading now. It will be possible to download them soon (like in 2 hours) from: http://activationrecord.net/radekp/qtmoko/download/ MD5 checksums: 6c259005e72c5c163bee85bdd92d290f qtmoko-debian-v5.jffs2 b1164caeda73a69e62091af3f5269fe5 qtmoko-debian-v5.tar.gz f64f5ff2e7dad0202e7cb69d263d006d uImage-v5.bin Most important changes in V5 version include: * much better support for X applications * X is not starting during boot which makes Qtopia faster * short AUX press brings up menu while running X application * X application stopping should be now correct (first SIGTERM and if no response then SIGKILL) * included TangoGPS, xterm with matchbox virtual keyboard and matchbox window manager. * scripts for turning on/off bluetooth, wifi, gps and for switching USB between host and device (available from dev tools menu) Most probably no bugs were introduced and this version should be stable as daily phone. There can be still problem with no sound on incoming call. The only workaround i know is to make outgoing call after boot (e.g. to some cost free number) and all incoming calls will be ok after that. With X application support you can now use TangoGPS for mapping, links2 for web browsing, you can play doom, tons of games in scummvm - the possibilities are nearly endless. You can also switch to USB host and attach USB keyboard which will work for X applications. For more information please visit links [1] [2] [3] [4]. The support for X applications still needs some more work. I would appreciate if someone could help me understand why X server cannot be started from within Qtopia. It always hangs in VT_WAITACTIVE. I am now solving this with simple helper program [5] that starts before Qtopia. To me it looks that Qtopia takes over virtual terminal and when X tries to allocate it - it hangs. So this needs clean solution and understanding the problem. Any help would be very welcome. In next days I will be on holidays on my bike so i will get to mail on Monday. Enjoy images, hope you will like them Cheers Radek [1] http://activationrecord.net/radekp/qtmoko/download/ [2] http://activationrecord.net/radekp/qtmoko/ [3] http://github.com/radekp/qtmoko/tree/master/ [4] http://qtmoko.org/ [5] http://github.com/radekp/qtmoko/tree/e0c5da38bfcb8eaaf205967ad084ee3475394572/src/3rdparty/applications/qx_helper ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community Hi Radek, now that you are back from holidays, i'm sorry to disturb you with bugs. first of all, my freerunner is new, i only tried shr, and when v5 of qtmoko was released and my phone just returned from buzz fixing, i thought i would install it. i must say i am very impressed. it just feels like a phone and is pretty much fun to play around with. especially the contacts/sms/etc thingy is really good. And it feels stable. however, there are a few glitches. * Alarm doesnt start, when the phone is suspended. it just starts a few seconds after manually resuming the phone. * Wifi doesnt work. It just doesnt connect. * sms longer then 160 characters are sent succesfully and received by the other phone. However, sending such a sms to qtmoko doesn't work somehow. it only gets received after a reboot. * The phone shouldnt suspend when e.g. trying to connect to wifi or in gps mode. * Bluetooth worked, somehow. i activated BT, was able to receive and send files, but then it suspended before i couldnt turn BT off again - after that, the bt config dialog told me, that bt would not be availible. Furthermore i would like to ask a few questions/for feature requests. i know the keyboard debate is getting old. but i always wondered why would couldnt have a keyboard just like a usual phone, like the keyboard which is used at pin input (like this one here: http://lwn.net/images/qpe/call_sm.png ) with some corrective mechanism as the illume keyboards of shr do (for writing sms at least). and i really really would appreciate a small lightweight jabber client and a SIP client. Thanks for your efforts! -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/-QtMoko--New-debian-images-V5-tp3346164p3373698.html Sent from the Openmoko Community mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Document with answers to most popular battery-related questions is ready
Michal Brzozowski ruso...@poczta.fm writes: 2009/8/2 Wolfgang Spraul wolfg...@qi-hardware.com Hmm, that's a pretty strong statement. At Openmoko we spent _a lot_ of money combined to get this CC thing to work. The theory was that you have it in most notebook batteries so it's 'a good thing to have'. But if it's not actually used, then it would be one of those many things we did that should have been better thought through. No, I think it was a very good decision. Not only low-level programmers need it, but also normal* users who want to know how long the battery lasts with certain configurations. I know for example that with gsm on it lasts about 50h in suspend, with gsm off about 100h Hm, there's probably something very wrong with your config, no? With GSM on in suspend it should last for 140 hrs and with off it should be even more. Hm, so basically your point is that CC allows current measurement in suspend. Ok, but if there're convenient TPs you can use your DMM to do the same as well. Also you can do that by connecting the device via DMM to a lab PSU or a pack of AA batteries. Moreover, there's quite a limited number of usecases (wrt power-management) so those who has some EE skills can do the measurements once and then share the info for everybody. Wolfgang, please consider making current measurement in suspend easy. :) -- Be free, use free (http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html) software! mailto:fercer...@gmail.com ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Best Distro to use bluetooth headset
I'm going by what the wiki says where a bluetooth headset should bypass the issue. http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Buzz_Fix I'm hoping that since the buzz is caused by interference from the gsm chip, using a digital recording device should resolve the issue. I was even contemplating modding my case and installing a small usb mic. I find it odd though that an external gsm antenna also makes the buzz go away. A friend of mine had horrible gsm buzz with his treo 650 but all he had to do was wrap some aluminum foil around some cables to shield them, then the buzz went away. I didn't want to send my phone away for the free repair because it is my only way of communicating with people. And yeah, I just said I would get an Iphone to bug the devs. I dislike apple and I would go with a G1 any day. As with the freerunner, I knew the software wasn't going to be ready for a while, but I also knew the software will be supported for a long time by the community. I just didn't know there would be some hardware issues. I held off on buying a phone for over a year just because I was waiting for this phone to come out. Anyways.. once I get my bluetooth headset working I'll do some quality tests to confirm if it makes a difference. The Digital Pioneer wrote: Nah, get a G2 or something. iPhone is a rip-off. And if I were you, I'd just get a buzzfix. I'm sure someone on this list will be able to do it for you, if you pay shipping. Unfortunately, using bluetooth will not fix the GSM buzz (someone correct me if I'm wrong). I'm just lucky enough that I don't have it where I live, though I've been told it does happen in other places. I missed the bandwagon to have it fixed free, because I didn't want to give my phone up for the time to fix it, but I wish I had... I don't care what OpenMoko says, the FR is still a prototype phone. It's a revised prototype, but a prototype none the less. Personally, I enjoy playing with it, but it's not for everyone. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/Best-Distro-to-use-bluetooth-headset-tp3371068p3373743.html Sent from the Openmoko Community mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Document with answers to most popular battery-related questions is ready
Hm, there's probably something very wrong with your config, no? what config? With GSM on in suspend it should last for 140 hrs only when deep sleep is usable. the only time i ever heard of 140h suspend were the mail from daniel willmann after he applied a hw fix to #1024. my fr suffers from #1024 and thus has to be set deep sleep never -- which means about 50hrs in suspend. with deep sleep adaptive it works up all the time, which means a suspend time far less. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Document with answers to most popular battery-related questions is ready
Paul, one more thing... To me it seems that CC readings are almost unused except for presenting the user with a bit more accurate capacity data. And when someone is developing something lowlevel he could as well connect and external ampmeter, much more reliable and flexible approach. This is where I'm not so sure. Also see Michal Brzozowki's mail. I think real power consumption improvements in software can only be made if it's throughout the whole stack, from kernel to middleware to apps. I don't think you can optimize real system power consumption in the kernel alone, where the kernel knows or correctly predicts all sorts of middleware or app behavior. So of course you first want the kernel situation, and charging, to be robust and cover all cases. But then it should go on. And I don't think we should assume every software developer has an ampmeter. There are lots of application developers that could do valuable work if they would get speedy and accurate readings on how much energy was consumed in the last 5 minutes, 20 minutes, 2 hours, etc. Now, if an accurate way to measure the current in the device solves 80% of that as well, then the (big) extra cost of supporting CC batteries is not worth it. So for me it all comes down to precision. Is it possible to build a cheap and accurate way to measure current in the device? For the NanoNotes, I will look into this first. If it's possible, this may be all it needs to support application developers doing power consumption work. If it's not possible, I think CC is good - I don't want to make the assumption that you have to have an ampmeter to be able to do power consumption work. Feedback very appreciated. Wolfgang On Sun, Aug 02, 2009 at 10:02:42PM +0400, Paul Fertser wrote: Wolfgang Spraul wolfg...@qi-hardware.com writes: this is an excellent document, obviously I cannot spot anything wrong! Thanks for you kind words. :) I didn't know that some external chargers would not charge gta01 or gta02 batteries because of the thermistor check you are writing about. I'm not sure i saw any charger like that myself or seen reports (except on our wiki). But i suspect the probability of that for nokia brand charges is quite high. All the cheap external chargers we bought in Taiwan or China for testing can charge both gta01 or gta02 batteries without a problem. Proves my point :D I have a question for all: We will ship our first NanoNote with a BL-4C compatible battery, without Coulomb counter (middle pin unused) [1]. Hm, can BL-5C fit there? Because it'd be much nicer as modern 5Cs have quite some capacity. How are people really using the Coulomb counter in gta02? Theoretically I would think that it provides far superior power measurement options for actual software development, just as you write. For example when playing with power saving codes, whether in the kernel, middleware or applications, I would think over the course of several hours or days the Coulomb counter data is the primary means for efficient development. To me it seems that CC readings are almost unused except for presenting the user with a bit more accurate capacity data. And when someone is developing something lowlevel he could as well connect and external ampmeter, much more reliable and flexible approach. So we are considering shipping the next version of the NanoNote with Coulomb counter batteries same as the Neo FreeRunner. But if nobody is actually using the data from the Coulomb counter, then it's a wasted effort. I'm not sure you'll get much for using CC. The only problem so far with using a dumb battery on FR is that there's no way to know the current from inside the device. On gta01 there's a resistor shunt supposed to be used to measure the current but readings are too noisy to be useable. So if you have a good way to measure current already i'd not go for CC. -- Be free, use free (http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html) software! mailto:fercer...@gmail.com ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Evopedia version 0.2 prerelease
Hi! After some serious changes in the dump format that will hopefully speed up the title search (aside from cleaning the dump a bit) and other changes in the software, evopedia version 0.2 is ready for testing. Evopedia is a Wikipedia reader for offline use. Features include: - live title search - search for geographically near articles - images are included when there is a connection to the internet midori is the default browser used for displaying the html pages, if you don't like it, change it in /usr/bin/evopedia_gui.sh. At the moment, there is only a dump of the German Wikipedia for evopedia 0.2 but others are being generated. Download links: software: http://www.reitwiessner.de/openmoko/evopedia_0.2_any.ipk German Wikipedia dump: http://vitels.cs.uni-tuebingen.de/dumps/de/wikipedia.squashfs Please help improving the software by testing it and ask for languages to create dumps for. Kind regards, Christian ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Document with answers to most popular battery-related questions is ready
arne anka openm...@ginguppin.de writes: Hm, there's probably something very wrong with your config, no? what config? Probably deep sleep disabled :) With GSM on in suspend it should last for 140 hrs only when deep sleep is usable. Sure. And with deep sleep disabled it should still be ~70hrs, there're some logs from Mickey proving that. the only time i ever heard of 140h suspend were the mail from daniel willmann after he applied a hw fix to #1024. Yes, exactly. But fixing is fairly trivial, the soldering part is in fact easier than the buzz fix. -- Be free, use free (http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html) software! mailto:fercer...@gmail.com ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Document with answers to most popular battery-related questions is ready
Paul, Wolfgang, please consider making current measurement in suspend easy. :) Yeah - I thought that's what we were talking about :-) I'm not sure about your TP/DMM/EE advice. Isn't the Coulomb counter the perfect way to make precise data available to everybody? That was the point I was trying to get to. If not CC, what are the alternatives? Test points don't sound right to me. Precise current measurements maybe, but only if they are precise enough and can really serve the same purpose as the CC. Wolfgang On Sun, Aug 02, 2009 at 11:05:18PM +0400, Paul Fertser wrote: Michal Brzozowski ruso...@poczta.fm writes: 2009/8/2 Wolfgang Spraul wolfg...@qi-hardware.com Hmm, that's a pretty strong statement. At Openmoko we spent _a lot_ of money combined to get this CC thing to work. The theory was that you have it in most notebook batteries so it's 'a good thing to have'. But if it's not actually used, then it would be one of those many things we did that should have been better thought through. No, I think it was a very good decision. Not only low-level programmers need it, but also normal* users who want to know how long the battery lasts with certain configurations. I know for example that with gsm on it lasts about 50h in suspend, with gsm off about 100h Hm, there's probably something very wrong with your config, no? With GSM on in suspend it should last for 140 hrs and with off it should be even more. Hm, so basically your point is that CC allows current measurement in suspend. Ok, but if there're convenient TPs you can use your DMM to do the same as well. Also you can do that by connecting the device via DMM to a lab PSU or a pack of AA batteries. Moreover, there's quite a limited number of usecases (wrt power-management) so those who has some EE skills can do the measurements once and then share the info for everybody. Wolfgang, please consider making current measurement in suspend easy. :) -- Be free, use free (http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html) software! mailto:fercer...@gmail.com ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Document with answers to most popular battery-related questions is ready
2009/8/2 Paul Fertser fercer...@gmail.com Michal Brzozowski ruso...@poczta.fm writes: 2009/8/2 Wolfgang Spraul wolfg...@qi-hardware.com Hmm, that's a pretty strong statement. At Openmoko we spent _a lot_ of money combined to get this CC thing to work. The theory was that you have it in most notebook batteries so it's 'a good thing to have'. But if it's not actually used, then it would be one of those many things we did that should have been better thought through. No, I think it was a very good decision. Not only low-level programmers need it, but also normal* users who want to know how long the battery lasts with certain configurations. I know for example that with gsm on it lasts about 50h in suspend, with gsm off about 100h Hm, there's probably something very wrong with your config, no? With GSM on in suspend it should last for 140 hrs and with off it should be even more. Really? Isn't that with deep sleep on? Hm, so basically your point is that CC allows current measurement in suspend. Ok, but if there're convenient TPs you can use your DMM to do the same as well. Also you can do that by connecting the device via DMM to a lab PSU or a pack of AA batteries. Moreover, there's quite a limited number of usecases (wrt power-management) so those who has some EE skills can do the measurements once and then share the info for everybody. Paul, of all those acronyms I only understand AA batteries. I said I'm a normal user :-) ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Document with answers to most popular battery-related questions is ready
Yes, exactly. But fixing is fairly trivial, the soldering part is in fact easier than the buzz fix. well, i sincerely hop, someone steps up and offers that kind of fix. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Document with answers to most popular battery-related questions is ready
Wolfgang Spraul wolfg...@qi-hardware.com writes: To me it seems that CC readings are almost unused except for presenting the user with a bit more accurate capacity data. And when someone is developing something lowlevel he could as well connect and external ampmeter, much more reliable and flexible approach. Now, if an accurate way to measure the current in the device solves 80% of that as well, then the (big) extra cost of supporting CC batteries is not worth it. Yes, i think that's the case. The only state where integrated power measurement readings are unavailable is suspend and that's quite low level already. So for me it all comes down to precision. Is it possible to build a cheap and accurate way to measure current in the device? bq27000 measures current accurately so it should be possible. I'm sure there's some decent IC suitable for your task. -- Be free, use free (http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html) software! mailto:fercer...@gmail.com ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Document with answers to most popular battery-related questions is ready
Michal Brzozowski ruso...@poczta.fm writes: With GSM on in suspend it should last for 140 hrs and with off it should be even more. Really? Isn't that with deep sleep on? Sure. Paul, of all those acronyms I only understand AA batteries. I said I'm a normal user :-) ROTFL -- Be free, use free (http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html) software! mailto:fercer...@gmail.com ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Document with answers to most popular battery-related questions is ready
Wolfgang Spraul wolfg...@qi-hardware.com writes: Wolfgang, please consider making current measurement in suspend easy. :) Yeah - I thought that's what we were talking about :-) I'm not sure about your TP/DMM/EE advice. Hm, if the TPs are easily reachable i'd say that measuring voltage over them is fairly easy. I don't think the guys working on suspend consumption issues would need more. Also the kind of battery receptable for BL-5C is very convenient to hook up an external PSU to (even without soldering) so that's not really a problem as well. Isn't the Coulomb counter the perfect way to make precise data available to everybody? That was the point I was trying to get to. The question is if in fact everybody needs precise data. Gta02 shows that's not the case, at least that's how i see it. Both for end-users and for app developer. And for me personally battery accessibility (i can go to the nearest shop and buy a BL-6C in no time and for a fairly low price) is far more important than accurate readings. So let's wait and see what other folks say. -- Be free, use free (http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html) software! mailto:fercer...@gmail.com ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Document with answers to most popular battery-related questions is ready
Paul, Yes, i think that's the case. The only state where integrated power measurement readings are unavailable is suspend and that's quite low level already. You could measure the current when you wake up, couldn't you? bq27000 measures current accurately so it should be possible. I'm sure there's some decent IC suitable for your task. bq27000 is a chip, right? You mean we should have that chip inside the device, instead of having it in every battery? That would make the batteries cheaper as well, I believe the CC batteries cost 2 USD or so more than without CC :-( Wolfgang On Sun, Aug 02, 2009 at 11:22:40PM +0400, Paul Fertser wrote: Wolfgang Spraul wolfg...@qi-hardware.com writes: To me it seems that CC readings are almost unused except for presenting the user with a bit more accurate capacity data. And when someone is developing something lowlevel he could as well connect and external ampmeter, much more reliable and flexible approach. Now, if an accurate way to measure the current in the device solves 80% of that as well, then the (big) extra cost of supporting CC batteries is not worth it. Yes, i think that's the case. The only state where integrated power measurement readings are unavailable is suspend and that's quite low level already. So for me it all comes down to precision. Is it possible to build a cheap and accurate way to measure current in the device? bq27000 measures current accurately so it should be possible. I'm sure there's some decent IC suitable for your task. -- Be free, use free (http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html) software! mailto:fercer...@gmail.com ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Document with answers to most popular battery-related questions is ready
2009/8/2 Paul Fertser fercer...@gmail.com Sure. And with deep sleep disabled it should still be ~70hrs, there're some logs from Mickey proving that. Oh, interesting. Maybe it was on a pure console image? I tested this some time ago and I think that running X + enlightenment used more power on suspend, although it doesn't make sense to me. Anyway, I'm quite sure that a fresh SHR install with gsm on won't go for more than 50h in suspend on my phone. the only time i ever heard of 140h suspend were the mail from daniel willmann after he applied a hw fix to #1024. Yes, exactly. But fixing is fairly trivial, the soldering part is in fact easier than the buzz fix. When will 'normal' users be able to send in their phones to get this done? ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Document with answers to most popular battery-related questions is ready
Paul, And for me personally battery accessibility (i can go to the nearest shop and buy a BL-6C in no time and for a fairly low price) is far more important than accurate readings. Oh sure, totally agree with you. The question for me is only whether the device should support the 3rd pin on the battery connector. One could imagine that the device normally ships with regular (non-CC) batteries, but a SW developer interested in power consumption could use a CC battery. Hey, for the NanoNotes we wouldn't even need to make special batteries because the gat02 batteries fit, at least for development purposes (the battery cover doesn't really fit anymore as I said). So we could ship the device with the 3rd pin wired up, but without a CC battery in the package. The CC battery would be the tool of choice for power consumption work. Like you said, let's see whether someone else speaks up... Thanks for all your feedback so far, Wolfgang On Sun, Aug 02, 2009 at 11:30:45PM +0400, Paul Fertser wrote: Wolfgang Spraul wolfg...@qi-hardware.com writes: Wolfgang, please consider making current measurement in suspend easy. :) Yeah - I thought that's what we were talking about :-) I'm not sure about your TP/DMM/EE advice. Hm, if the TPs are easily reachable i'd say that measuring voltage over them is fairly easy. I don't think the guys working on suspend consumption issues would need more. Also the kind of battery receptable for BL-5C is very convenient to hook up an external PSU to (even without soldering) so that's not really a problem as well. Isn't the Coulomb counter the perfect way to make precise data available to everybody? That was the point I was trying to get to. The question is if in fact everybody needs precise data. Gta02 shows that's not the case, at least that's how i see it. Both for end-users and for app developer. And for me personally battery accessibility (i can go to the nearest shop and buy a BL-6C in no time and for a fairly low price) is far more important than accurate readings. So let's wait and see what other folks say. -- Be free, use free (http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html) software! mailto:fercer...@gmail.com ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Document with answers to most popular battery-related questions is ready
Wolfgang Spraul wolfg...@qi-hardware.com writes: Yes, i think that's the case. The only state where integrated power measurement readings are unavailable is suspend and that's quite low level already. You could measure the current when you wake up, couldn't you? It's possible with bq27k because it works autonomously. But if you do something similar to gta01 there's no way to measure current in suspend without an external equipment. bq27000 measures current accurately so it should be possible. I'm sure there's some decent IC suitable for your task. bq27000 is a chip, right? You mean we should have that chip inside the device, instead of having it in every battery? It would be a possible solution but it doesn't make much sense because bq27k assumes it's connected to the same battery all the time. I meant that since bq27k manages to measure the current accurately, there should exist some other more simple IC (properly shielded to be immune to noise) to measure the current inside a device. Also the charger IC must know the current too, it's just that PCF50633 doesn't allow to read it for some reason :( There's also a possibility to use some other CC on device side, take a look at http://focus.ti.com/docs/prod/folders/print/bq27510-g1.html ( $1.6 ) That would make the batteries cheaper as well, I believe the CC batteries cost 2 USD or so more than without CC :-( And also special batteries are always harder to source for end-users. Especially if they're not located in EU or the USA. -- Be free, use free (http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html) software! mailto:fercer...@gmail.com ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Document with answers to most popular battery-related questions is ready
Michal Brzozowski ruso...@poczta.fm writes: 2009/8/2 Paul Fertser fercer...@gmail.com Sure. And with deep sleep disabled it should still be ~70hrs, there're some logs from Mickey proving that. Oh, interesting. Maybe it was on a pure console image? I tested this some time ago and I think that running X + enlightenment used more power on suspend, although it doesn't make sense to me. Anyway, I'm quite sure that a fresh SHR install with gsm on won't go for more than 50h in suspend on my phone. Strange, needs investigations... the only time i ever heard of 140h suspend were the mail from daniel willmann after he applied a hw fix to #1024. Yes, exactly. But fixing is fairly trivial, the soldering part is in fact easier than the buzz fix. When will 'normal' users be able to send in their phones to get this done? Is Poland _that_ different from Russia? Here we have plenty of places where you can repair electronic equipment. Those guys have no difficulties desoldering and soldering a huge ;) (0805) cap. And quite acceptable prices too. Man, they do BGA rework, one 0805 part can't be hard for them! -- Be free, use free (http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html) software! mailto:fercer...@gmail.com ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Best Distro to use bluetooth headset
Well, I'm not certain, someone who knows better should comment. But I don't believe using BT fixes GSM buzz. I've been wrong before, though... :) Anyways, SHR-U should use your headset if anything will. The wiki page I linked is the one I used and several others have used successfully. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Document with answers to most popular battery-related questions is ready
Paul, It's possible with bq27k because it works autonomously. But if you do something similar to gta01 there's no way to measure current in suspend without an external equipment. Can't you measure current before and after suspend, and knowing how long you were in suspend calculate energy consumption during suspend? Wolfgang On Sun, Aug 02, 2009 at 11:46:06PM +0400, Paul Fertser wrote: Wolfgang Spraul wolfg...@qi-hardware.com writes: Yes, i think that's the case. The only state where integrated power measurement readings are unavailable is suspend and that's quite low level already. You could measure the current when you wake up, couldn't you? It's possible with bq27k because it works autonomously. But if you do something similar to gta01 there's no way to measure current in suspend without an external equipment. bq27000 measures current accurately so it should be possible. I'm sure there's some decent IC suitable for your task. bq27000 is a chip, right? You mean we should have that chip inside the device, instead of having it in every battery? It would be a possible solution but it doesn't make much sense because bq27k assumes it's connected to the same battery all the time. I meant that since bq27k manages to measure the current accurately, there should exist some other more simple IC (properly shielded to be immune to noise) to measure the current inside a device. Also the charger IC must know the current too, it's just that PCF50633 doesn't allow to read it for some reason :( There's also a possibility to use some other CC on device side, take a look at http://focus.ti.com/docs/prod/folders/print/bq27510-g1.html ( $1.6 ) That would make the batteries cheaper as well, I believe the CC batteries cost 2 USD or so more than without CC :-( And also special batteries are always harder to source for end-users. Especially if they're not located in EU or the USA. -- Be free, use free (http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html) software! mailto:fercer...@gmail.com ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Best Distro to use bluetooth headset
The Digital Pioneer digitalpion...@gmail.com writes: Well, I'm not certain, someone who knows better should comment. But I don't believe using BT fixes GSM buzz. You better do ;) Anyways, SHR-U should use your headset if anything will. The wiki page I linked is the one I used and several others have used successfully. Yes, and thanks again for being an early adopter and for starting this page ;) -- Be free, use free (http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html) software! mailto:fercer...@gmail.com ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Document with answers to most popular battery-related questions is ready
Wolfgang Spraul wolfg...@qi-hardware.com writes: It's possible with bq27k because it works autonomously. But if you do something similar to gta01 there's no way to measure current in suspend without an external equipment. Can't you measure current before and after suspend, and knowing how long you were in suspend calculate energy consumption during suspend? You should certainly ask Joerg for a precise and qualified answer. -- Be free, use free (http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html) software! mailto:fercer...@gmail.com ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Best Distro to use bluetooth headset
I just followed all the steps in that guide. I managed to scan for my headset, bind to it. but it still doesn't work. It's silent and now the only way I can hear anything is by putting it on speaker phone. When I try using it in qtopia I atleast hear something so I know it works, but what i hear is loud static. The Digital Pioneer wrote: Well, I'm not certain, someone who knows better should comment. But I don't believe using BT fixes GSM buzz. I've been wrong before, though... :) Anyways, SHR-U should use your headset if anything will. The wiki page I linked is the one I used and several others have used successfully. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/Best-Distro-to-use-bluetooth-headset-tp3371068p3374213.html Sent from the Openmoko Community mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [QtMoko] New debian images V5
Tschaka wrote: however, there are a few glitches. * Alarm doesnt start, when the phone is suspended. it just starts a few seconds after manually resuming the phone. Hi, yes, this is another known issue (with quite high priority) on my list. FSO based images used ffalarms and atd for alarm. I need to investigate how to install and make it work on debian. So this is rather unimplemented feature that bug. * Wifi doesnt work. It just doesnt connect. another known one probably trivial bug. You can use terminal and use iwconfig as a workaround for now. * sms longer then 160 characters are sent succesfully and received by the other phone. However, sending such a sms to qtmoko doesn't work somehow. it only gets received after a reboot. This is interesting - i just tested it and got a bit different but still incorrect behaviour. I recieved just the first part of SMS. So i can at least somehow reproduce it and take a look. * The phone shouldnt suspend when e.g. trying to connect to wifi or in gps mode. If you run tangogps using QX then it shouldnt go to suspend. I will implement it also for other apps launched from QX - this should be quite simple. I dont know how hard would it be to do it in wifi dialog and in other places where it's needed. * Bluetooth worked, somehow. i activated BT, was able to receive and send files, but then it suspended before i couldnt turn BT off again - after that, the bt config dialog told me, that bt would not be availible. Yes, i know this issue too. Didnt have time to take a look at it yet. Reboot solves it for now. Furthermore i would like to ask a few questions/for feature requests. i know the keyboard debate is getting old. but i always wondered why would couldnt have a keyboard just like a usual phone, like the keyboard which is used at pin input (like this one here: http://lwn.net/images/qpe/call_sm.png ) with some corrective mechanism as the illume keyboards of shr do (for writing sms at least). I am not happy with any virtual keyboard too - so if none else comes with solution i will work on this when time comes. and i really really would appreciate a small lightweight jabber client and a SIP client. Me too :) Thanks for your efforts! Thanks for report. All those bugs are on my list so hopefully sooner or later they could be fixed. Radek ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Best Distro to use bluetooth headset
There's a line in a config file you need to uncomment. See the wiki page for details. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Best Distro to use bluetooth headset
I saw that, when I went to uncomment it, it was already uncommented The Digital Pioneer wrote: There's a line in a config file you need to uncomment. See the wiki page for details. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/Best-Distro-to-use-bluetooth-headset-tp3371068p3374538.html Sent from the Openmoko Community mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: om2009/paroli status
On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 11:40 PM, Risto H. Kurppari...@kurppa.fi wrote: (I understand that Laszlo didn't get the support needed but got some of his code rejected - lost interest.. ) I would like to add my 2 cents here;) I didnt stopped working on paroli at all, just my attention was distracted by some hobby project (home-made electric bike) and I was on vacation in the last 2 weeks (hence the late reply). But I agree, what Mirko is doing, are the worst scenario of every possible act, ie. stating he is working on paroli, but his last real work on paroli was exactly two months ago on June 3, with commit 6b47ad3a17814105e7107dcf7cc30dc4f3584387. In addition to this he is not responding to emails, especially which contains programing questions regarding to paroli. (I know, because I shoot 10-15 emails already to him in these 2 months). I have read somewhere some years ago, how to best quit an open source project, but I cant locate it anymore (nor on the web nor in my computer). It addressed this very issue, how to avoid this kind of frustrations. I would like to suggest to Qi company (Mirko's bosses;), to allow (better word: force) Mirko to work on Paroli one hour per week. To answer questions, and integrate others' works. There are many ongoing work, which needs to be integrated into paroli. There are two branches by Dietrich, namely tacheles and rebase. Where tacheles needs some very deep (tichy/paroli) knowledge, to be able to integrate into paroli. Other seems mostly cleanup. We should really need some kind of communication platform, because I for example never met with Dietrich, but I really like his works (on pyneo.org, I based my gps program on his mappad work. It was he or josch) So there are two more possible contributors: Dietrich and josch. They need some attention, to not lost his interests in paroli. I for example have many more or less working programs, which needs some help to properly integrate into paroli. (I have shoot an email like 4 days ago to Mirko, but no answer;) These are: - calculator app (already usable) - gps app, and I would like to develop some predefined gui for it: walking, running, biking, driving, paragliding The basics works, I need edje (.edc file) gui for more advanced things like zoom in, out and panning;) - note taking app (almost working) - calendar app (I have some gui sketches) - some already done (or planned) gui improvements for paroli - I have some gui ideas, where I need consensus from Mirko and Angus, one of them is putting topbar at the bottom. Because the bottom is not really finger usable, so why waste the valuable space at the top (just under illume's topbar). And it makes little sense to have two topbars at the top. Mirko: If you want to step back from paroli for some time (months), please, please integrate people's work before it, and only leave after. There are many things, where we really need you. Im not able to help Dietrich integrate his dbus based multithreading programs. I (for example) need some tichy help. I think everybody got an idea about paroli status. Best regards, Laszlo ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: om2009/paroli status
Hi! On Mon, Jul 27, 2009 at 4:41 PM, Angus Ainslienyt...@openmoko.org wrote: 3 issues that need solving SIM card full when it's not really full as the messages are stored in the rootfs. Need to look into how to fake incoming sms', because, I dont use sms at all. Contacts disappearing Like loosing contacts permanently? I workarounded it by auto-backup phone contacts. Is this the same issue? I remember Mirko promised he is looking more deeply into opimd, and incorporate into paroli or, develop further paroli's solution. Dunno what is his plan. Display menu is gone. From the settings? I should install the newest unstable image, to see what happened... works for me;) But Im like a month old image. Angus Laszlo ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Best Distro to use bluetooth headset
And you've set the bt-headset-address and bt-headset-enabled variables, then rebooted the phone? ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: om2009/paroli status
On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 6:42 AM, Laszlo KREKACSlaszlo.krekacs.l...@gmail.com wrote: There are many ongoing work, which needs to be integrated into paroli. There are two branches by Dietrich, namely tacheles and rebase. Where tacheles needs some very deep (tichy/paroli) knowledge, to be able to integrate into paroli. Hello Laszlo, at least for some of the issues concerning tichy, you can look into the actual tichy code, still hosted on its google code website [1]. I don't think you will be able to directly merge from tichy to paroli, for both projects have diverged too much, but I am sure you can get some ideas from it. Beside, even though I stopped working on paroli long before Mirko, I still understand how the core works ; contact me by email (or on this list) if you have any question about it, I can have a -quick- look at it. Regards, -Gui [1] http://code.google.com/p/tichy/ -- Guillaume Chéreau blogs : http://charlie137.blogspot.com/, http://charlie137-2.blogspot.com/ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
