Re: beautiful qt based
Am 08.04.2010 um 18:54 schrieb Esben Stien: openm...@pulster.de (Christoph Pulster) writes: the game is over This is only the beginning;). When I read http://daringfireball.net/2010/04/iphone_agreement_bans_flash_compiler (not that I like Flash but cross-compiling) and assume the conclusions are true, it is indeed only the beginning of the game of free(dom)really open devices... ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: project customers
On Fri, Apr 9, 2010 at 12:37 PM, Christoph Pulster openm...@pulster.dewrote: I can confirm sold units worldwide is 20.000 maximum. Is FreeRunner still in production? I mean: is there a factory producing any FreeRunners? best regards, giovanni ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: project customers
Am 09.04.2010 um 12:37 schrieb Christoph Pulster: Perhaps I should clarify that I don't mean to make fun of your situation. We're all in the same boat here. No problem Werner, all your optinions and comments are very welcome. As you already said, companiess who built a solution based on the Openmoko need a reliable product AND a reliable company behind. The product, Freerunner, had a lot severe bugs (GPS not working, GSM buzzing, #1024 suspend problems). Also after fixing this with new revisions and third partys (Dr.Nikolaus), the product is not ready to compete in the market. Very poor battery life to mention just one serious no-go. We also had many discussions with project customers and basically they were happy with the device. And would prefer it over any consumer oriented device. There have been really interesting projects people have done with their Freerunners. Just some I remember: * one was shot into space (60 km altitude) by DLR * one was used as the onboard computer for a sudent built racing car * two have been used in a history museum as visitor guides * etc. In my talks, the technical problems or lack of technological competitiveness (compare to the rumours of a 960x480 display for the next generation iPhone) were rarely a real issue. Most projects just need a device that works well enough for them. And is open enough so that they can completely install their own software down to the bootloader (this is critical for security related projects). Not all projects need GPS, not all need a good standby time more than the 130-140 hours that are now available. And many would have been happy with a pure PDA. But you are completely right in the analysis for the non-technical aspects. In marketing, there is the word the Product of a Company is everything, not only the Device. I.e. logistics, customer support, long term roadmap, customer specific variants etc. are also part of the product. And in these categories, project customers did not get what they had expected or required. And, the economical crisis did postpone and cancel many of the more flexible and innovative projects that could withstand such issues. The company Openmoko Inc. missed to give customers a reliable support and long-term concept. The open idea stopped behind the doors, no info Exactly. about stock availability, spare parts supply etc. CEO Sean is an visionary, not a sales guy. Steve Mosher's part of the game was not evident. (BTW, what is the status of Steve according Qi ?) I had a project asking for 2500 units as a first order only. Openmoko Inc. failed to provide this customer a infrastructure. I can confirm sold units worldwide is 20.000 maximum. which is a very poor result and can not give a living for anyone. The game openmoko was only possible with the financial injection of FIC. the funds are gone, the Wikireader is an anachronistic product and If we take 50 employees over 2 years and compare with 20k units sold at rougly 300 USD average (with 20% gross margin which is industry avarage) one can estimate how much money had to be injected... will not give any cashback. Not to misunderstand, the game opensource is just starting. if you need to, remember Openmoko as a early hero. Yes, they definitively were early heros. And currently, we all work on their appreciation. Maybe there will come an Open Phoenux and fly again... Nikolaus Mobile Office Solutions by Golden Delicious Computers GmbHCo. KG Buchenstr. 3 D-82041 Oberhaching +49-89-54290367 http://www.handheld-linux.com AG München, HRA 89571 VAT DE253626266 Komplementär: Golden Delicious Computers Verwaltungs GmbH Oberhaching, AG München, HRB 16602 Geschäftsführer: Dr. Nikolaus Schaller Digital Tools for Independent People ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: project customers
On Fri, 2010-04-09 at 12:37 +0200, Christoph Pulster wrote: [snip] Not to misunderstand, the game opensource is just starting. if you need to, remember Openmoko as a early hero. Here I completely agree with you, Christoph. I personally don't see the FR as a fail. It's more like a success in that we (the community) have proven an open source phone, while not perfect yet, is indeed possible. And while the FR may not live long enough, an open phone OS like SHR, QTMoko or Debian will run on other devices too, in time. I think we are just at the beginning, not the end. And I am very proud to be part of this, even if I don't (yet) have the time to be more involved :). I don't regret purchasing the FR at all. Christoph Cheers, Benedikt ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: project customers
Christoph Pulster wrote: As you already said, companiess who built a solution based on the Openmoko need a reliable product AND a reliable company behind. Hmm, I think you're right that there has to be a company that buffers the customer from the increasingly chaotic (*) inner layers. However, I'm not sure this company has to be the manufacturer or owner of the product, nor that there would have to be just one company in this buffer role. E.g., I could easily imagine a consortium grouped around an open design. That's one of the possible directions I see for the work we've started with gta02-core. Such a consortium could be much more reliable than a single company. If someone drops out, others can fill the gap. If the consortium as a whole falls apart or veers off course, anyone can pick up the design and continue producing it. You can even have mobility at the level of individual engineers. So the product would live as long as there's enough interest in seeing it live, much as it is with Open Source software. Also, if we consider project customers, many of them have needs the current market offerings cannot satisfy, they usually do have technical competence, and they have some money. What they don't have is the size and pull to just create the product they need from scratch. Now, there are many roles they could play. They could be just customers. They could take a more proactive role and be part of such a consortium. Or maybe they're even underestimating their potential and would actually be able to take the lead in creating such a product from scratch. They just don't think they could. (*) Chaotic, not necessarily because of a lack of structure, but simply because of the amount of information going around and because there will invariably be a lot of horrifying news that don't have much of an impact in the long run. - Werner ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: MC Navi
had a short glance over the sources. did you mix your algorithm inseparably with illume/esomething/whatever-the-name? or would it be possible to add another toolkit's interface to it? given the current state of navit on the n900, it would be interesting to maybe create an qt interface and try to run it on the n900, too. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [GTA02] clock reset on battery removal?
Timo Juhani Lindfors wrote: USB usb power while swapping batteries so that you don't need to power the system down. Most of the times that I need to remove the battery I don't have USB power, so that isn't very helpful. Yet another hardware design issue I guess, I'm quite surprised there isn't a small battery to power the clock like in PCs. PS: Please CC me. -- bye, pabs http://bonedaddy.net/pabs3/ signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [GTA02] clock reset on battery removal?
On 4/9/10, Paul Wise pa...@bonedaddy.net wrote: Timo Juhani Lindfors wrote: USB usb power while swapping batteries so that you don't need to power the system down. Most of the times that I need to remove the battery I don't have USB power, so that isn't very helpful. Yet another hardware design issue I guess, I'm quite surprised there isn't a small battery to power the clock like in PCs. PS: Please CC me. -- bye, pabs http://bonedaddy.net/pabs3/ Afaik there is a Backupbattery for the RTC. Though it might be dead/discharged what ever. Regards, Jake ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [GTA02] clock reset on battery removal?
On Friday 09 April 2010, Paul Wise wrote: Timo Juhani Lindfors wrote: USB usb power while swapping batteries so that you don't need to power the system down. Most of the times that I need to remove the battery I don't have USB power, so that isn't very helpful. Yet another hardware design issue I guess, I'm quite surprised there isn't a small battery to power the clock like in PCs. There is a small rechargeable battery between the Aux button and the earpiece that should keep the clock running while you change the battery. It only lasts a few minutes though. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [GTA02] clock reset on battery removal?
Paul Wise pa...@bonedaddy.net writes: Yet another hardware design issue I guess, I'm quite surprised there isn't a small battery to power the clock like in PCs. There is a small battery. Look at the schematics please :-) ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [GTA02] clock reset on battery removal?
I started seeing this in Jan - similar time to the RTC errors being discussed on the list; http://lists.openmoko.org/nabble.html#nabble-f1958 Russ On 9 April 2010 15:39, Al Johnson openm...@mazikeen.demon.co.uk wrote: On Friday 09 April 2010, Paul Wise wrote: Timo Juhani Lindfors wrote: USB usb power while swapping batteries so that you don't need to power the system down. Most of the times that I need to remove the battery I don't have USB power, so that isn't very helpful. Yet another hardware design issue I guess, I'm quite surprised there isn't a small battery to power the clock like in PCs. There is a small rechargeable battery between the Aux button and the earpiece that should keep the clock running while you change the battery. It only lasts a few minutes though. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [GTA02] clock reset on battery removal?
Paul Wise wrote: Yet another hardware design issue I guess, I'm quite surprised there isn't a small battery to power the clock like in PCs. There is. It's called the backup battery. It's the small button next to the front speaker. Strangely, this battery has a very pronounced death wish. I.e., in a recent survey, something like 33% reported that their backup battery can't hold a charge for any useful amount of time. (I don't remember who conducted the survey. Joerg told me about the results.) It's not clear what causes the backup battery to perform so poorly. It could be a quality issue, it could be a manufacturing issue (*), it could be incorrect use in the GTA02 design, it could be a usage pattern of the user that subjects the battery to unexpected stress, etc. (*) We had backup batteries die like flies at some point in time, GTA01 or early GTA02 prototypes I think, because they were not compatible with the soldering profile. However, the battery was replaced with a sturdier one, so this is supposedly no longer a problem. In general, I think it would be good to avoid assuming that the backup battery works. There are many potential time sources around, GPS being only one of them, so I think a distribution that detects a loss of RTC could cushion the effect in many cases. There are also time sources that are exact but have an unknown offset, such as the time provided by some GSM providers. When the system has a know to be good time, it could identify and record the time offset, and use this information later to derive the correct time from this kind of source. Just throwing ideas in the general direction of the middleware folks :-) - Werner ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Looking to pick up a FreeRunner
On Thu, Apr 8, 2010 at 2:16 PM, Sebastian Krzyszkowiak seba.d...@gmail.com wrote: Well, experiences depends. I'm really happy with my Freerunner, and i'm already using it as my only phone for more than year now. But maybe it's just matter of unix experience, spare time and... just good luck ;) Well, I've been running and administering linux desktop systems since 1993, so I don't think it's a matter of unix experience... Maybe it's a matter of different expectations? Are you saying you've never missed a call or found the FR in a state where it wasn't working and had to hard-boot it? I was missing calls and sms's on a pretty regular basis because the phone would hang and I'd get nothing until I noticed and rebooted it... Warren -- Warren Baird - Photographer and Digital Artist http://www.synergisticimages.ca ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Looking to pick up a FreeRunner
On Thu, Apr 8, 2010 at 2:50 PM, Brolin Empey bro...@brolin.be wrote: Which distro were you using? I recommend QtMoko because it is the best and only usable distro I have found. Make sure you use QtMoko v19 or higher, though, because earlier versions miss some incoming SMS messages, including notifications of new voice mail, until QtEI is restarted. I do not recommend QtMoko v18, even though it is newer than v19, because v18’s 2.6.32 kernel lacks support for both RNDIS and USB mode changing. I was using SHR the most before I gave up. I never tried QtMoko - I had used QtEI for a while, but found it frustrating because most of the interesting software for the FR didn't work on it, although I understand they've fixed that in QtMoko. It was probably about as stable a phone as SHR was. The N900 lacks USB Host support at the hardware level. I guess this does not matter to you, but I might miss it because I have used USB Host multiple times on my FR. Yeah, I'd never used host support on my FR, so that didn't matter to me much. Warren -- Warren Baird - Photographer and Digital Artist http://www.synergisticimages.ca ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [ANNOUNCE] eStarDict
Thank you, it would be nice Good work Mike -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-eStarDict-tp4694011p4878667.html Sent from the Openmoko Community mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
qtmoko v20 (testing)
Hi, i have uploaded new testing qtmoko images with 2.6.32 kernel. Current stable images v21 are still based on andy-tracking 2.6.29 kernel - i will do anounce for them in separate mail. You can download as usually from [1] check homepage [2][3] and sources [4]. Here is list of changes since previous testing version (v18): - more sane power management values by default (suspend after 5 minutes) - workarounded stray mouse clicks in X - backported accelerometers from andy-tracking - backported usb host mode from andy-tracking - wifi is now alwas available after boot - hopefully fixed bug #80 (lost sms, thanks to Judge_Gregg's great bug report) - added path to /usr/games (for scummvm and other games) - modified kernel config - all FR hardware is not build in I hope we are again closer to working phone with 2.6.32 kernel with this release now. There are 2 things missing now: 1/ bluetooth is not powered on after resume 2/ xrandr is not working (screen goes white) So if you are adventurous you can use this version and report bugs, otherwise you can use v21 which can be more stable. The kernel patches were sent to kernel mailing list and they current state can be found here [5]. Cheers Radek [1] http://sourceforge.net/projects/qtmoko/files/ [2] http://qtmoko.org/ [3] http://activationrecord.net/radekp/qtmoko/ [1] http://github.com/radekp/qtmoko/tree/lin2632/devices/neo/linux_kernel/ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: qtmoko v20 (testing)
Radek, thanks for the new image - trust me - it's much appreciated! Did you have any success at-all with this image in enabling the use of a bluetooth headset for phone calls? Russ On 9 April 2010 20:42, Radek Polak pson...@seznam.cz wrote: Hi, i have uploaded new testing qtmoko images with 2.6.32 kernel. Current stable images v21 are still based on andy-tracking 2.6.29 kernel - i will do anounce for them in separate mail. You can download as usually from [1] check homepage [2][3] and sources [4]. Here is list of changes since previous testing version (v18): - more sane power management values by default (suspend after 5 minutes) - workarounded stray mouse clicks in X - backported accelerometers from andy-tracking - backported usb host mode from andy-tracking - wifi is now alwas available after boot - hopefully fixed bug #80 (lost sms, thanks to Judge_Gregg's great bug report) - added path to /usr/games (for scummvm and other games) - modified kernel config - all FR hardware is not build in I hope we are again closer to working phone with 2.6.32 kernel with this release now. There are 2 things missing now: 1/ bluetooth is not powered on after resume 2/ xrandr is not working (screen goes white) So if you are adventurous you can use this version and report bugs, otherwise you can use v21 which can be more stable. The kernel patches were sent to kernel mailing list and they current state can be found here [5]. Cheers Radek [1] http://sourceforge.net/projects/qtmoko/files/ [2] http://qtmoko.org/ [3] http://activationrecord.net/radekp/qtmoko/ [1] http://github.com/radekp/qtmoko/tree/lin2632/devices/neo/linux_kernel/ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
qtmoko v21
Hi, today we have also new stable qtmoko images still based on andy-tracking 2.6.29 kernel. It can be dowloaded from usual location [1]. QtMoko is distribution based on Qtopia (or QtExtended) from Trolltech for your Neo Freerunner. For more info please see homepage [2][3] or dowload source code [4]. Here is list of changes since previous stable version (v19): - hopefully fixed bug #80 (lost sms, thanks to Judge_Gregg's great bug report) - SMS messages should stay on SIM now - wifi always available after boot (OM bug #2327) thanks to Gennady for his fix. - more sane power management values by default (suspend after 5 minutes) - added path to /usr/games (for scummvm and other games) - modified kernel config - all FR hardware is now build in - in QX you can enable rotation using accelerometers - QMplayer uses /media/card for saving media if possible I hope there are no regressions from previous version. If yes, please let me know i will try to fix them for next release. I am quite scared to say it but hopefully SMS will be working 100% from now on. I know i have told this like 3 times before, but now i had really great bug report and i could reproduce the bug - big thanks to Judge Gregg bug report and idea to revert the commit which was deleting SMS from SIM. Now SMS are also kept on SIM if possible which is good. As for QX and rotation - you can setup application (via Favourites menu) and enable rotation. It will use accelerometers and xrandr to rotate the screen. For me it works only when booted with uboot and still i sometimes get white screen. But i was able to play Broken Sword in scummvm - and it's great experience - this game rocks on Neo. I am now using kernel config with nodebug and nopreempt. All FR's hardware is built in and it will work even when /lib/modules are missing. Drivers for USB devices are still as modules. You can find kernel config and wifi patch here [5]. If you have v19 installed, you can try to upgrade without reflashing. Following proccess is not tested but should work: 1/ download v21 tarbal 2/ replace /opt with the one in tarbal in your existing rootfs 3/ unpack /lib/modules from tarbal to your existing rootfs 4/ edit /etc/modules and delete all contents from it 5/ flash or replace kernel from tarbal (/boot/uImage-GTA02.bin) I have a lot of plans for next version, but now enjoy new version i hope it will serve well. Cheers Radek [1] http://sourceforge.net/projects/qtmoko/files/ [2] http://qtmoko.org/ [3] http://activationrecord.net/radekp/qtmoko/ [4] https://docs.openmoko.org/trac/ticket/2327 [5] http://github.com/radekp/qtmoko/tree/master/devices/neo/linux_kernel/ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: qtmoko v21
Radek Polak wrote: Here is list of changes since previous stable version (v19): forgot this one: - when charging the power led lights orange (credits for implement to Jeroen Nijhof) and also forgot MD5SUMS: 8c06e5b9dc7196932841ad35448b6137 qtmoko-debian-v21.jffs2 c0eae18059b7913fa1703b089504ebfd qtmoko-debian-v21.tar.gz 8ea022a3eaaba471ad6809b8923934e0 uImage-v21.bin feccf46500c45e25e4d56b2c55ebeebe qtmoko-debian-v20-testing.jffs2 5ed753c7d35107a920e1ca0f871225ff qtmoko-debian-v20-testing.tar.gz 9c503c4045901de6f5c905cd079b1071 uImage-v20-testing.bin Regards Radek ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: qtmoko v21
Radek Polak wrote: forgot this one: Also forgot important note - if the GSM does not register (you will be in the screen with big dialer keyboard), use POWER button to Restart QtExtended until registration is sucessful. This happens only with 2.6.29 kernel, no idea yet why. Regards Radek ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: qtmoko v20 (testing)
Russell Hay wrote: thanks for the new image - trust me - it's much appreciated! Did you have any success at-all with this image in enabling the use of a bluetooth headset for phone calls? Not yet, but Gabrys has it working with QtMoko now. I just trying to make it work too. Regards Radek ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: qtmoko v21
2010-04...@22:31 Radek Polak If you have v19 installed, you can try to upgrade without reflashing. Following proccess is not tested but should work: 1/ download v21 tarbal 2/ replace /opt with the one in tarbal in your existing rootfs 3/ unpack /lib/modules from tarbal to your existing rootfs 4/ edit /etc/modules and delete all contents from it 5/ flash or replace kernel from tarbal (/boot/uImage-GTA02.bin) is possible to switch back and forth v20/v21? what I've to do? ...or maybe stable/testing are too different? regards and tnx :) (ps: I'm upgrading my v19 to v21 following the procedure above...) -- ALFA21 IS PROVIDED AS IS AND WITHOUT WARRANTIES OF ANY KIND, EXPRESS OR IMPLIED. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
[qtmoko] regression in power management (was: qtmoko v21)
2010-04...@22:31 Radek Polak I hope there are no regressions from previous version. If yes, please let me know i will try to fix them for next release. found a regression: in v21 if you boot on battery and then attach usb, the power profile is still on battery. eg, if you have enabled suspend: - ssh connection will be paused because of std-by - recharge will be paused on std-by btw if you go to power management you can manually disable suspend regards -- ALFA21 IS PROVIDED AS IS AND WITHOUT WARRANTIES OF ANY KIND, EXPRESS OR IMPLIED. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
[qtmoko] white screen on xrandr FIXED
2010-04...@21:42 Radek Polak 2/ xrandr is not working (screen goes white) please try the fix by Franta: http://bugs.qtmoko.org/view.php?id=127 it seems ok to me (no more white screen) -- ALFA21 IS PROVIDED AS IS AND WITHOUT WARRANTIES OF ANY KIND, EXPRESS OR IMPLIED. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [qtmoko] regression in power management (was: qtmoko v21)
Hello, --- On Fri, 4/9/10, Alfa21 freerun...@my.is.it wrote: I hope there are no regressions from previous version. If yes, please let me know i will try to fix them for next release. found a regression: in v21 if you boot on battery and then attach usb, the power profile is still on battery. eg, if you have enabled suspend: - ssh connection will be paused because of std-by - recharge will be paused on std-by btw if you go to power management you can manually disable suspend the same here. Radek, I did the upgrade as you suggested (from v19 to v21) without reflashing, and after some few shutdown device - power on I realized that the system thinks that it is still on battery when it is usb attached. So it suspends as Alfa21 also reports. Regards. Rafael ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
