Re: [qtmoko] regression in power management (was: qtmoko v21)
I can confirm that this happens. I have a freshly installed qtmoko Regards. Rune fr. den 09.04.2010 klokka 22:04 (-0700) skreiv Rafael Ignacio Zurita: Hello, --- On Fri, 4/9/10, Alfa21 freerun...@my.is.it wrote: I hope there are no regressions from previous version. If yes, please let me know i will try to fix them for next release. found a regression: in v21 if you boot on battery and then attach usb, the power profile is still on battery. eg, if you have enabled suspend: - ssh connection will be paused because of std-by - recharge will be paused on std-by btw if you go to power management you can manually disable suspend the same here. Radek, I did the upgrade as you suggested (from v19 to v21) without reflashing, and after some few shutdown device - power on I realized that the system thinks that it is still on battery when it is usb attached. So it suspends as Alfa21 also reports. Regards. Rafael ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: project customers
Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote: We also had many discussions with project customers and basically they were happy with the device. And would prefer it over any consumer oriented device. Are there actually any stories of project customers whose project made it past the RD stage and who deployed a reasonably large number of devices, let's say = 100 ? I'm not aware of any, and that's bothering me a little, for it weakens my theory that project customers (I haven't heard this expression before Christoph used it, but I like it very much) would be a major market for an Open phone. It could be that the combination of long-lived problems and a short-lived product or series just left no window for this to happen. - Werner ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: project customers
Am 10.04.2010 um 09:56 schrieb Werner Almesberger: Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote: We also had many discussions with project customers and basically they were happy with the device. And would prefer it over any consumer oriented device. Are there actually any stories of project customers whose project made it past the RD stage and who deployed a reasonably large number of devices, let's say = 100 ? I'm not aware of any, and that's bothering me a little, for it I am also not aware of any successful large scale project. While the Sharp Zaurus did have such projects. The largest real projects with Openmokos I have seen were in education (e.g. providing a classroom for embedded development training). weakens my theory that project customers (I haven't heard this In business strategy planning it is quite common to separate e.g. consumer, project, service, solution business types and markets because they have quite different requirements and attitudes in respect to quality, reliability, speed, loyality, functionality, cost, dependencies, legacy, supply markets etc. So one has to serve them differently. expression before Christoph used it, but I like it very much) would be a major market for an Open phone. At least one visitor during our presence at the SYSTEMS 2008 fair expressed he is interested in 6 units to install special encryption software. And, he was looking for an open hardware device because he could then 100% prove to his customers (government, police) what is inside the device. It could be that the combination of long-lived problems and a short-lived product or series just left no window for this to happen. Definitively. Such projects usually have 2-3 years planning phase (from the idea through convincing management, getting a budget, selecting suppliers, negotiating prices, finally making a purchase order etc.). And then typically 3-5 years deployment where replacement, spare parts etc. must remain available and devices must remain compatible to any infrastructure that comes with the project. So for successful project business, one must either provide a product that is available for 5-7 years or at least a consistent roadmap/upgrade plan. This is completely different to a consumer market where the buyer just wants the best product available today. And then comes back after 2 years and wants to have a new one, most likely from a different brand and 100% incompatible. Look e.g. at settop boxes for cable or IP TV. Although they are finally in the hands of consumers, they are deployed through roll-out projects by network operators. So the technology of a device must match the technology of the network at the time of introduction. Which is a constantly moving target and makes it a nightmare for the product managers working for a settop box supplier :) Nikolaus ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [qtmoko] regression in power management (was: qtmoko v21)
fine, I've opened a ticket on mantis about this: http://bugs.qtmoko.org/view.php?id=128 -- ALFA21 IS PROVIDED AS IS AND WITHOUT WARRANTIES OF ANY KIND, EXPRESS OR IMPLIED. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Pulster offer: free debug board
Saying a small thanks to all supporters of the Openmoko project, we like to give away free debug boards. http://www.pulster.de/images/big/openmoko-debug-board.jpg Me, me, please, me. You can add the debug with any order free of charge. *jumping around* me me ^_^ thanks, Chris Even if my work lies in motivating people to joining the SHR development on additional platforms. I've also two FreeRunners. It's a genious device. It survives water, cold, heat. Much more stable then other devices. Nothing else would have survived the unwanted swimtrip in my trusor bag trough the amazonas _ www.pulster.de Openmoko Shop greatings leviathan -- David Lanzendörfer OpenSourceSupport GmbH System engineer and supporter signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [QtMoko] no WLAN support nor USB networking with Windows 7 in QtMoko v18? (FR unusability rant)
As you can probably tell, I was very frustrated and in rant mode when I wrote my original post. My problems were caused by my wrong approach, though. I should have booted QtMoko from SD instead of NAND because SD is far more flexible, especially when troubleshooting. QtMoko v18’s lack of USB networking with Windows 7 was caused by its 2.6.32 kernel config. I have been chatting with radekp (and others) in #openmoko: he tried to help me by providing new kernel images with RNDIS support enabled, but I never got RNDIS working until I switched to QtMoko v19. I know I am a minority Openmoko user because I prefer Windows NT over Linux as a desktop client OS, but I still think the distro maintainers should have a release checklist to prevent releasing a kernel without RNDIS support, for example. RNDIS support is critical for me because I need it for ssh access to my FR. I know I could use a Linux guest in VirtualBox or another virtual machine on my Windows 7 host, but I have been avoiding installing a VM because I fear it will become Yet Another of my countless underestimated projects. Furthermore, I have Ubuntu tower PCs at both home and work. I prefer Cygwin over a Linux guest because Cygwin is better integrated with the host: Cygwin uses the same file system, for example. Anyway, I should not blame distro maintainers for not using a release checklist because I should ask if their new release contains the features and/or support I need before upgrading, especially for a minority case such as RNDIS support. You can read the #openmoko logs on the Web if you are interested in my conversations with radekp (and others). My QtMoko v19 installation in NAND became unusable because my JFFS2 rootfs somehow got partially corrupted while my FR was suspended overnight. I still do not know how that happened, but I learned there is no fsck for JFFS2 only after I needed an fsck to repair my rootfs. I migrated my QtMoko v19 installation from NAND to an 8 GB microSDHC card, which I managed to eventually boot with qi-bootmenu. QtEI restarts when I tell it to “Restart Device” or “Shutdown Device”, though, so I need to try regular Qi instead of qi-bootmenu. My ext3 rootfs on SD got partially corrupted too, though, and apparently I have lost my entire calendar + all of my 400 tasks. :(( I will survive, though: I have tried to spend more effort on progressing than worrying about my non-critical data loss. I should have tried upgrading QtMoko by replacing the kernel image, modules, and /opt/qtmoko/ with the versions from the new release instead of tarring my current installation, starting over with the new release, then trying to copy everything I need from my backup tarball of the previous release. radekp even explicitly mentions this (untested) upgrade path in his recent announcements of QtMoko v20 + v21. radekp’s 2.6.32 kernel apparently now has support for USB Host, but I do not know if it has RNDIS support. Anyway, sorry about my complaining and ranting. Sometimes I allow my actions to be based on my emotions instead of logical reasoning; of course, I lack control over my emotions. I want to help improve my FR experience, including helping radekp make QtMoko the best and most usable FR distro, instead of only complaining without offering constructive criticism. I realise the FR is a community project; I am grateful radekp and others, including Alishams Hassam locally, are willing to help me personally. I know radekp has a wife, 2 children, and a full-time (day) job in addition to his (volunteer) role as QtMoko maintainer. I have a full-time day job too, but it is very flexible and is in a very supportive and understanding environment. I have never been married and have no children, though. I have probably forgotten to mention something important in this message, but I think it will still be sufficient for now. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: qtmoko v21
If you have v19 installed, you can try to upgrade without reflashing. Following proccess is not tested but should work: Hmmm, the problem with qtmoko is that it works so great that you do not have to reinstall it very often. So I forgot which version I have installed. Is there an info screen somewhere where I can see the installed version number ? System info says I have Qt Extended version 4.4.3 built on 4 fev 2010. Is it v19 ? :-) ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [QtMoko] no WLAN support nor USB networking with Windows 7 in QtMoko v18? (FR unusability rant)
2010-04...@03:42 Brolin Empey As you can probably tell, I was very frustrated and in rant mode when I I see! :P Windows NT over Linux as a desktop client OS, but I still think the distro maintainers should have a release checklist to prevent releasing a kernel without RNDIS support, for example. RNDIS support is critical for me because I need it for ssh access to my FR. I know I could use a I agree! I'm a full time linux user but sometime I need RNDIS too. try regular Qi instead of qi-bootmenu. My ext3 rootfs on SD got partially corrupted too, though, and apparently I have lost my entire calendar + all of my 400 tasks. :(( I will survive, though: I have tried to spend more effort on progressing than worrying about my non-critical data loss. anyway I can suggest you to do backups of your (also non-critical) data _before_ a critical upgrade... and yes, upgrades on moko are _always_ critical also if tagged as stable ;) (in the past I've lost my data too) Anyway, sorry about my complaining and ranting. Sometimes I allow my actions to be based on my emotions instead of logical reasoning; of you are a human, welcome between us! :) bye -- ALFA21 IS PROVIDED AS IS AND WITHOUT WARRANTIES OF ANY KIND, EXPRESS OR IMPLIED. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [QtMoko] no WLAN support nor USB networking with Windows 7 in QtMoko v18? (FR unusability rant)
[...] I'm a full time linux user but sometime I need RNDIS too. Uhmm. Ok. I'll look then that its also in the defconfig for htcdream then. Because probably we will run into the same problem there anyway I can suggest you to do backups of your (also non-critical) data _before_ a critical upgrade... and yes, upgrades on moko are _always_ critical also if tagged as stable ;) (in the past I've lost my data too) Basically you should alway backup critical data! Anyway, sorry about my complaining and ranting. Sometimes I allow my actions to be based on my emotions instead of logical reasoning; of you are a human, welcome between us! :) I suggest Hypericum tea. It helps overcoming this unneeded human weaknessed: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypericum bye bye leviathan -- David Lanzendörfer OpenSourceSupport GmbH System engineer and supporter signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Where is the tangoGPS community? (was: TangoGPS font size for speed indicator)
Apologies for reviving a 3-month-old thread I'm not actually interested in the `Marcus vs. Risto' fight; but this thread did raise some questions for me about how I should go about being part of to the tangoGPS developer community, myself--mainly, *is* there actually a developer community, and where is it? More specifically...: Marcus Bauer marcus.ba...@gmail.com writes: On Fri, 8 Jan 2010 09:12:45 +0100 Laszlo KREKACS laszlo.krekacs.l...@gmail.com wrote: I think it was nothing else just a desperate try to build a community around tangogps [...] as apparently you failed to do it. Ah, allrighty! It is just that tangoGPS has a community of more than 100.000 users, of more than 25 distributions, of people packaging it, people twittering about it, people blogging about it, people discussing it in forums... The tangoGPS friendservice has been used almost half a million times and the messaging is frequently used too. There has been an article on Linux.com about tangoGPS and another one in the Linux Magazine. I'd say the tangoGPS community is bigger than the openmoko community :-P Those are all measures only of an end-user community. Having a large, thriving end-user community *is* excellent, and also important--so I'd like to both congratulate you and thank you for that accomplishment! However: I'd like to know where the *developer* community is for tangoGPS-- and please don't take that the wrong way, there's nothing backhanded in that remark; really, I'm interested in developing tangoGPS, and communicating and collaborating with other likeminded people. I have a set of patches, already--what should I do with them? Where should I post them for posterity? Where is the mailing list? Is there an IRC channel? Is there a wiki? Is there a bug-tracker? Is there a public version-control archive? Where are all of these things? -- Don't be afraid to ask (λf.((λx.xx) (λr.f(rr. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
new app - oFart
hiya, I wrote something pointless to make me laugh. simple installation: cd /etc/opkg wget http://www.timwise.co.uk/opkg/ofart/ofart-feed.conf http://www.timwise.co.uk/opkg/podpooch/podpooch-feed.conf opkg update opkg install ofart code at: http://github.com/timabell/oFart package / feed config at: http://www.timwise.co.uk/opkg/ofart/ enjoy Tim Abell ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Where is the tangoGPS community? (was: TangoGPS font size for speed indicator)
On Saturday 10 April 2010 15:59:04 Joshua Judson Rosen wrote: I have a set of patches, already--what should I do with them? Where should I post them for posterity? Where is the mailing list? Is there an IRC channel? Is there a wiki? Is there a bug-tracker? Is there a public version-control archive? Where are all of these things? No. Just email your patches to Marcus Bauer. Expect no reply nor use of patches. But, you don't have the right to complain. You have the right to fork, though. grtz, Sander ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: qtmoko v21
Alfa21 wrote: is possible to switch back and forth v20/v21? what I've to do? ...or maybe stable/testing are too different? regards and tnx :) Yes, only differences are kernel /opt and mplayer configuration (2.6.32 uses fbdev, 2.6.29 glamo). Regards Radek ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [QtMoko] no WLAN support nor USB networking with Windows 7 in QtMoko v18? (FR unusability rant)
Brolin Empey wrote: upgrade path in his recent announcements of QtMoko v20 + v21. radekp’s 2.6.32 kernel apparently now has support for USB Host, but I do not know if it has RNDIS support. USB networking works with v21 on windows 7 32bit. The testing (v20) does not work yet. Regards Radek ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Where is the tangoGPS community?
Joshua Judson Rosen roz...@geekspace.com writes: However: I'd like to know where the *developer* community is for tangoGPS-- and please don't take that the wrong way, there's nothing backhanded in that remark; really, I'm interested in developing tangoGPS, and communicating and collaborating with other likeminded people. I have a set of patches, already--what should I do with them? I keep my patches in http://iki.fi/lindi/git/tangogps.git/ Currently I only have a set of patches that add support for libgps. See http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=573848 Is there an IRC channel? There is #tangogps which is of course completely unofficial :-) ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: project customers
Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote: Definitively. Such projects usually have 2-3 years planning phase (from the idea through convincing management, getting a budget, selecting suppliers, negotiating prices, finally making a purchase order etc.). And then typically 3-5 years deployment where replacement, spare parts etc. must remain available and devices must remain compatible to any infrastructure that comes with the project. So for successful project business, one must either provide a product that is available for 5-7 years or at least a consistent roadmap/upgrade plan. This is completely different to a consumer market where the buyer just wants the best product available today. And then comes back after 2 years and wants to have a new one, most likely from a different brand and 100% incompatible. I have to aggree from my own experience. Our company is doing HW and SW for Czech Railways. We are still running 600 small 486 devices running MSDOS (we had 1200 of them just a year ago). And we are also still developing new SW products for these devices. It is very important that the device is supported for 10+ years in this area. It is also important that the operating system and HW is stable and not changing under your hands. You install it once and it must work for those 10 years. Regards Radek ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: Looking to pick up a FreeRunner
Anyway, I had a disappointing and frustrating experience with my FR too until I discovered QtMoko because all of the distros I tried before QtMoko (Om 2008.x, Om 2009, SHR (misnomer++;)) were unusable. swoody: If you get an FR, please try QtMoko first. That way, if you decide to try other distros later, you can at least compare them to something usable (QtMoko). Since it wasn't mentioned as an alternative, you could also try Anroird on Freerunner 0.2 RC1. No distro war, just another option you could try and see if it works out for you. Niels. _ Speel samen met je vrienden de spelletjes die Windows Live je aanbiedt! http://www.messengerbillboard.be/nl/play ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
can you help collect package popularity data?
Hi all, I think it would be good for the community to have some idea of the install base for applications. So I wrote a very quick and dirty way for people to submit their installed package list. Try it with the following (will clobber anything called pop in /usr/bin): wget http://www.timwise.co.uk/om/pop/pop.tar.gz tar -C / pop.tar.gz then submit your package list with /usr/bin/pop You can view submissions at http://www.timwise.co.uk/om/pop/submissions/ I've not done any work on analysis yet. The code is at http://github.com/timabell/popularity improvements would be welcome, as would inclusion in the various distros. Perhaps if it works out this could be hosted by the various distro servers. see also http://popcon.debian.org/ Yours Tim Abell ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: can you help collect package popularity data?
On 10/04/10 23:36, Tim Abell wrote: wget http://www.timwise.co.uk/om/pop/pop.tar.gz tar -C / pop.tar.gz that should be tar -C / -vxf pop.tar.gz is this inspired by debian's popcon? sam ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: can you help collect package popularity data?
sam tygier wrote: On 10/04/10 23:36, Tim Abell wrote: wget http://www.timwise.co.uk/om/pop/pop.tar.gz tar -C / pop.tar.gz that should be tar -C / -vxf pop.tar.gz is this inspired by debian's popcon? sam doh, i knew i wouldn't get it all right at this time of night :-) good catch yes, partly inspired by popcon, but mostly by a discussion over whether I had one or two users in total for podpooch :-) Thanks Tim Abell ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: new app - oFart
Oh YES! It's the killer app I was waiting for!! Although it would be more interesting, imho, if it would let me chose among diffent... wav(s)... :-D Ehm... well not bad for the my first message to the community. I'm using the freerunner as solo phone since the past December, with qtmoko as primary distro, shr and since one week, android. I would like to thank you all for your great efforts... uhm I mean in a wide sense... I basically got the freerunner because i believe in its possibilities and in the power of the community. And because i hate iphone users. By the way, i think this application could solve many life problems: -it can give you an excuse to run away when you meet your former gf while walking around with your new lover -it can soften the stress of an exam at the uni -it can persuade the parents of your ugly classmate that you're not the right guy for their daughter -useful for getting a quick discount in a shop instead of one hour of discussion with the clerk -a scenographic way to escape from a police catch and disappear in a cloud of smog... -taking a picture among the public with your most hatred actor/actress in Cannes, running the app and then looking disgusted at him/her -entering inside an iPhone shop and pushing out all the customers However, tomorrow I'll use it inside a bus to see the reactions... ByeZ On Sat, 10 Apr 2010 16:04:58 +0200, Tim Abell t...@timwise.co.uk wrote: hiya, I wrote something pointless to make me laugh. simple installation: cd /etc/opkg wget http://www.timwise.co.uk/opkg/ofart/ofart-feed.conf http://www.timwise.co.uk/opkg/podpooch/podpooch-feed.conf opkg update opkg install ofart code at: http://github.com/timabell/oFart package / feed config at: http://www.timwise.co.uk/opkg/ofart/ enjoy Tim Abell -- Creato con il rivoluzionario client e-mail di Opera: http://www.opera.com/mail/ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Where is the tangoGPS community?
Joshua Judson Rosen roz...@geekspace.com writes: Do you know where I can find an official upstream git (or other VC) repository, then? I haven't been able to figure out where Marcus' is, There's no such thing available publicly afaik. I've been using Bazaar, and have initialised my own repository from a release tarball, which kind-of stinks. It looks like there are actually some things missing from the tarballs, which stinks more :( I branched my libgps branch from git.debian.org git tree that has all the tarballs and debian changes in different branches. Using a different version control system didn't sound like a good idea so I stayed with git. Currently I only have a set of patches that add support for libgps. I have a patch that makes it possible to scale the details on maps (e.g.: text, icons, line-widths) and change the amount of detail shown without zooming the map; and another patch that adds VisualIDs http://scribblethink.org/Work/VisualIDs/visualids.html for POIs. How can it do that? I thought tangogps only shows bitmap data? Also, if I understand correctly, Marcus is somewhat hostile toward that channel--certainly he doesn't use it himself; and it seems at least somewhat strange to be building a community around something that the upstream maintainer has himself deprecated. So, I was wondering if--even hoping that--there was some other venue that was preferred by upstream; if #tangogps is *competing* with some `more official' venue, then it seems kind-of lousy to fracture the community like that. I have never heard of any other IRC channel. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Where is the tangoGPS community?
Timo Juhani Lindfors timo.lindf...@iki.fi writes: Joshua Judson Rosen roz...@geekspace.com writes: Do you know where I can find an official upstream git (or other VC) repository, then? I haven't been able to figure out where Marcus' is, There's no such thing available publicly afaik. I've been using Bazaar, and have initialised my own repository from a release tarball, which kind-of stinks. It looks like there are actually some things missing from the tarballs, which stinks more :( I branched my libgps branch from git.debian.org git tree that has all the tarballs and debian changes in different branches. Using a different version control system didn't sound like a good idea so I stayed with git. Currently I only have a set of patches that add support for libgps. I have a patch that makes it possible to scale the details on maps (e.g.: text, icons, line-widths) and change the amount of detail shown without zooming the map; and another patch that adds VisualIDs http://scribblethink.org/Work/VisualIDs/visualids.html for POIs. How can it do that? I'm very clever. :) I thought tangogps only shows bitmap data? That's correct. The trick is that, since the pre-rendered tile-images are rendered such that line-widths, text-size, icon-size, etc. are all constant across `zoom' levels when displayed at a consistent pixel- density..., I can basically just select a `more zoomed-out' set of tiles, and scale them up by the same (but inverse) amount before displaying them. So, when you select `fewer, bigger details', the code just decreases *pixel-density* and a `zoom-level offset' adjusted accordingly. The map remains at the same zoom-level; but the text and icons get bigger, the streets and other lines get wider; the amount of visual `clutter' decreases, and information-clarity goes up. If you select `more, smaller details', the pixel-density is increased and the zoom-offset adjusted in the other direction. Again, the map remains at the same zoom-level; but the text and icons get smaller, the streets and other lines become thinner; the amount of information visible at a given zoom-level (the information-density) increases. I posted a copy of this patch to this list and CC'd Marcus (not knowing what else to do with it), back in November, in Message-ID 87vdhtaral.fsf%40slice.rozzin.com: http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.handhelds.openmoko.community/52188 I haven't bothered posting the VisualIDs patch anywhere yet-- just a write-up, along with some screenshots, on my weblog. But I can post that code, too, if anyone's interested in it. I don't know--maybe we should post these things to Risto's `foss-gps' mail list :) Just *somewhere* where they don't get lost in the cacophony Also, if I understand correctly, Marcus is somewhat hostile toward that channel--certainly he doesn't use it himself; and it seems at least somewhat strange to be building a community around something that the upstream maintainer has himself deprecated. So, I was wondering if--even hoping that--there was some other venue that was preferred by upstream; if #tangogps is *competing* with some `more official' venue, then it seems kind-of lousy to fracture the community like that. I have never heard of any other IRC channel. Well, I guess I'll see you on #tangogps until we hear otherwise. -rozzin. -- Don't be afraid to ask (λf.((λx.xx) (λr.f(rr. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
