Re: Openmoko Beagle Hybrid
Am 23.05.2010 um 15:12 schrieb Martijn van Dongen: Nikolaus, I agree you should first play with something that is available. The information I got is from eurocircuit.com, The price is based on 4 layer 150 * 60 mm; just a wild guess of the size and layers based on standard technology, but giving an indication. More about the possibilities can be read in http://www.eurocircuits.com/images/stories/ec09/ec-services-leaflet-uk-english-4-2010-v2.pdf . I did not check any guidelines and requirements, so hard to say what suits. If somebody could provide more detailed information or point in a direction, a more serious price could be obtained. Ok, I see. They are a pooling supplier like others (pcb-pool, multipcb, etc.), but unfortunately such a project is well outside their offer. Just to mention some more or less important differences (I have not looked into all of them): * PCB thickness - 1.0 mm (or it will not fit into the Freerunner case) * 8 layers needed (or we can't connect all the many pins of the OMAP BGA) * stacked/filled Microvias (this is something like a minimum drill of 0.1 mm) * 0.1 mm wire width * etching and stop mask printing precision good enough for 0.3 mm SMD pads (BGA pitch is 0.4 mm) We have done some analyses and none of the online-pcb-shops can provide this. Therefore we asked several manufacturers by e-mail and most declined because they can't handle micro-vias. Some could do it but they said that our requirements drive PCBs cost up to factor 10. I don't know how the OpenPandora solved this (but they have produced 4000 boards so the cost may come down through to large volume). And, I don't know how the BeagleBoard project solved this. But I have read somewhere that they have only 6 layers (not using all features of the OMAP) and 3000 units per batch. Maybe, someone has also sponsored the prototyping phase where you have to produce boards at 500 EUR each. And then you find one misplaced connection or component :( For the Openmoko Beagle Hybrid we have just 2 layers (but no OMAP on board). So cost is much lower and comes into the range you have found. But we will add some margin to cover our development and prototyping cost. So that is the status as of today. If we can find a design that has big enough demand, we can bring down cost of PCBs to be insignificant (but only if we don't change the PCB design every now and then). This finally will lead to the question how many of us want to own such a new OMAP based motherboard for the Freerunner... But I think we are too early to really pose this question since for solid market research, one has to present at least a full concept (complete feature list and target price). BR, Nikolaus Regards, Martijn 2010/5/21 Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller h...@goldelico.com Yes, this all can be considered for a future version. What we wanted to start with is something that just works, is easily available, can be used for experimenting and software development and is not too costly. A nice case, a new PCB for the OMAP processor or using the Gumstix makes things much more expensive. @Yocto: what has to be considered is that the Gumstix does not fit into a Freerunner case (it is still too large/thick). @ Martijn: the OMAP BGA poses high level requirements for a new PCB. So I would be surprised if one can really get such PCBs for 15 € @ 50 units. But do you have more information? What have been your assumptions about # of layers, min. drill size, min. width etc.? Nikolaus Am 21.05.2010 um 15:48 schrieb Yocto: I haven't seen a discussion about redesign of the board, the design files (schematics in Orcad) are available, so you can downsize the connectors used and fit it in an existing casing. Could we, also, consider the option of using a smaller board like the Gumstix Overo ? OMAP3503 with ARM Cortex-A8 at 600MHz 256MB RAM / 256MB Flash [ 17mm x 58mm x 4.2mm ]. http://www.gumstix.com Regards, // Yocto - Original Message - From: Martijn van Dongen To: List for Openmoko community discussion Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2010 5:00 PM Subject: Re: Openmoko Beagle Hybrid Hi, First of all: nice project, could be a nice follow up for the freerunner. I have been looking at the discussions a little bit. Main discussion is how to make a new casing that fits around the beagle board, how to produce and what it costs. I haven't seen a discussion about redesign of the board, the design files (schematics in Orcad) are available, so you can downsize the connectors used and fit it in an existing casing. I have a price of a PCB (without parts) at low volumes (50 pieces) at less than €15. Assembly of low quantitiy boards will be very expensive (make it double the components price), so a DIY project for assembly of the boards will make the PCB fit for a reasonable price. Regards, Martijn 2010/5/11 Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller h...@computer.org
Re: Openmoko Beagle Hybrid
Em 25-05-2010 07:05, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller escreveu: This finally will lead to the question how many of us want to own such a new OMAP based motherboard for the Freerunner... But I think we are too early to really pose this question since for solid market research, one has to present at least a full concept (complete feature list and target price). For me there are a few requirements about it: * it has to fit *inside* the freerunner box, or I'm not interested * it has to have a working GSM chip, or I'm not interested * it should be possible to port SHR (preferred) or Meego for it with little trouble, or I'm not interested This is only because I both: 1) use the Freerunner as my main phone 2) don't have the time to make it all work If these issues were gone, then maybe we could talk prices, but not before, at least for me. Rui ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Freerunner Remote Desktop?
Hi everyone Does anyone know of any way to Remote Desktop to the Freerunner (to see the Freerunner display on PC, via USB). Preferably for SHR on Freerunner and Linux Mint or Ubuntu on PC... I've looked at: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/USB_Networking#GUI_on_desktop_through_SSH , but this seems to only allow specific applications to be displayed on PC. Thanks :-) ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Openmoko Beagle Hybrid
Hi, 2010/5/25 Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller h...@goldelico.com: [...] We have done some analyses and none of the online-pcb-shops can provide this. Therefore we asked several manufacturers by e-mail and most declined because they can't handle micro-vias. Some could do it but they said that our requirements drive PCBs cost up to factor 10. I don't know how the OpenPandora solved this (but they have produced 4000 boards so the cost may come down through to large volume). And, I don't know how the BeagleBoard project solved this. But I have read somewhere that they have only 6 layers (not using all features of the OMAP) and 3000 units per batch. [...] Since you mention the OpenPandora. Have you considered doing this as a hardware patch to this handheld console? I do not know if there is room for adding that in the case.. just an idea. If thats possible one could reuse a working pcb, a case and the touchscreen. regards Andreas Pokorny ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: Freerunner Remote Desktop?
I use tightVNC on my PC and run x11vnc on my freerunner. Cheers, John Gay From: community-boun...@lists.openmoko.org [mailto:community-boun...@lists.openmoko.org] On Behalf Of Nashvin Gangaram Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 4:22 AM To: Openmoko_Support; Openmoko_Community; SHR_Users Subject: Freerunner Remote Desktop? Hi everyone Does anyone know of any way to Remote Desktop to the Freerunner (to see the Freerunner display on PC, via USB). Preferably for SHR on Freerunner and Linux Mint or Ubuntu on PC... I've looked at: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/USB_Networking#GUI_on_desktop_through_SSH , but this seems to only allow specific applications to be displayed on PC. Thanks :-) ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Openmoko Beagle Hybrid
Am 25.05.2010 um 12:46 schrieb Andreas Pokorny: Hi, 2010/5/25 Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller h...@goldelico.com: [...] We have done some analyses and none of the online-pcb-shops can provide this. Therefore we asked several manufacturers by e-mail and most declined because they can't handle micro-vias. Some could do it but they said that our requirements drive PCBs cost up to factor 10. I don't know how the OpenPandora solved this (but they have produced 4000 boards so the cost may come down through to large volume). And, I don't know how the BeagleBoard project solved this. But I have read somewhere that they have only 6 layers (not using all features of the OMAP) and 3000 units per batch. [...] Since you mention the OpenPandora. Have you considered doing this as a hardware patch to this handheld console? I do not know if there is room for adding that in the case.. just an idea. If thats possible one could reuse a working pcb, a case and the touchscreen. No, not at all. Both concepts are quite disjunct. Our intention is to finally come up with a new OMAP based motherboard for a Freerunner and the OM Beagle Hybrid is a first prototype to support software and concept development by plugging together a BeagleBoard and an expansion board with a Freerunner LCD module [1] (plus some glue electronics). The OpenPandora is a OMAP based gaming console with its own LCD. The OpenPandora is too big to fit into a Freerunner case. So connecting both doesn't make sense to me. Or did I misunderstand your idea? BR, Nikolaus [1]: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Openmoko_Beagle_Hybrid ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Openmoko Beagle Hybrid
Hi, I thought the target was to have a new oss phone with more modern or more common hardware, and since FR users are used to hardware patches :)... The FR users could become OP users with a special gsm/umts patch. But you are right the OP is a gaming console so it is also lacking some other features, like the accelerometer and the gps receiver. But there are two sdhc slots - maybe there is a sdio gps receiver. 2010/5/25 Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller h...@goldelico.com: Am 25.05.2010 um 12:46 schrieb Andreas Pokorny: Hi, 2010/5/25 Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller h...@goldelico.com: [...] We have done some analyses and none of the online-pcb-shops can provide this. Therefore we asked several manufacturers by e-mail and most declined because they can't handle micro-vias. Some could do it but they said that our requirements drive PCBs cost up to factor 10. I don't know how the OpenPandora solved this (but they have produced 4000 boards so the cost may come down through to large volume). And, I don't know how the BeagleBoard project solved this. But I have read somewhere that they have only 6 layers (not using all features of the OMAP) and 3000 units per batch. [...] Since you mention the OpenPandora. Have you considered doing this as a hardware patch to this handheld console? I do not know if there is room for adding that in the case.. just an idea. If thats possible one could reuse a working pcb, a case and the touchscreen. No, not at all. Both concepts are quite disjunct. Our intention is to finally come up with a new OMAP based motherboard for a Freerunner and the OM Beagle Hybrid is a first prototype to support software and concept development by plugging together a BeagleBoard and an expansion board with a Freerunner LCD module [1] (plus some glue electronics). The OpenPandora is a OMAP based gaming console with its own LCD. The OpenPandora is too big to fit into a Freerunner case. So connecting both doesn't make sense to me. Or did I misunderstand your idea? BR, Nikolaus [1]: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Openmoko_Beagle_Hybrid ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Freerunner Remote Desktop?
I think you can use x11vnc on Freerunner and any VNC client on PC. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Openmoko Beagle Hybrid
Hiya! Im doing some Mendel development (http://blog.arcol.hu), and I have a working 3D printer. Here is my offer: I can print you prototypes for free. You still need to pay for the shipping, so I dont loose too much money on it. If you are interested, shoot me an email. Also the machine has its limitations, so I doubt the final product can be made on it. Best regards, Laszlo ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Openmoko Beagle Hybrid
2010/5/25 Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller h...@goldelico.com: [...] The OpenPandora is a OMAP based gaming console with its own LCD. The OpenPandora is too big to fit into a Freerunner case. So connecting both doesn't make sense to me. Or did I misunderstand your idea? The idea was to design a small extension pcb with a gsm/umts chip and antenna attached to the internal gpio or uart connectors of the pandora. So the gaming console becomes a phone. regards Andreas ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Freerunner Remote Desktop?
Nashvin Gangaram nashv...@gmail.com writes: Does anyone know of any way to Remote Desktop to the Freerunner (to see the Freerunner display on PC, via USB). Preferably for SHR on Freerunner and Linux Mint or Ubuntu on PC... x11vnc works for me. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
[Ventura] att wifi hotspot portal (Starbucks)
I'm sure I remember logging into the att portal at starbucks in the past using Ventura, but lately it's not possible. Pressing the login button, hitting enter returns no action. Is it a certificate I'm missing? Any clues? Thanks Russell Dwiggins -- View this message in context: http://openmoko-public-mailinglists.1958.n2.nabble.com/Ventura-at-t-wifi-hotspot-portal-Starbucks-tp5101774p5101774.html Sent from the Openmoko Community mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
