Re: Voicerecording software needed
Dnia 2010-10-05, wto o godzinie 09:36 +0200, Nashvin Gangaram pisze: Voice Notes in QtMoko works well. Really? Does it start recording automatically when specified phone number is calling? I doubt it... -- Patryk LeadMan Benderz Linux Registered User #377521 () ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail /\ www.asciiribbon.org - against proprietary attachments ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: We can have Help from Always Innovating !
Thanks Nikolaus for your answers. As the discussion on the developpement of GTA04 flies too high over my electronics skills level, I can't estimate the progress easily. (But I don't doubt of it!) As we discuss in the french forums, we think that the MiniBook should keep the capacity to be link the the AlwaysInnovating tablet. So we will *try* to expand this device, without removing anything. The two more important things to add are GPS GSM BT (perhaps). And let the device capable of future openings. I'm waiting for more returns from users, and will aks A.I. for a collaboration in intergrating such fonctiunalities. With the help of your references, we will try to have the same chips used for a question of portability. I think that GTA04 this hypothetic device would be nice to live together. The A.I. could be a 'lite' equipped device, cheaper, and GTA04 a full featured one. What do you think of this approach ? That line drawn, we will have a clear view of how to work. Regards, AsThrO On 06/10/2010 07:31, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote: Hi, looks like an interesting project to build a wireless MID. I want to suggest that you base your design on the GTA04, since it is far more developed as you might think, but also far from being complete... Let's say it is in the middle of the ocean but heads towards its destination. We are currently redesigning it a little so that you can not only use the GTA04 board as a new motherboard for the GTA02 plastics, but also as a module to attach a different LCM and other peripherals (e.g. QWERTY keyboard controller). This is done by adding two board-to-board connectors on the display side. The UMTS solution of the GTA04 is based on the OPTION GTM501. On the software side we have Debian Lenny (which can be the base of QtMoko). There are also Android ports and SHR should not be too dfifficult to adapt. If you need more information or help, please feel free to ask. BR, Nikolaus Am 05.10.2010 um 23:17 schrieb Thomas HOCEDEZ: On 10/05/2010 10:30 PM, Thomas HOCEDEZ wrote: On 10/05/2010 08:38 PM, Giovanni wrote: My free time and knowledge is quite limited, anyway I am willing to help in some way How can I help? Best regards, alien jo Well, for now, we have to set some points, each one requires more or less time skills, so anyone can give a little help : - List of what is needed on a device bult on the base of the MiniBook. It means : what feature MUST be included, and what feature could be added on the bonus tracks. A poll can be launched for that. - Find a name for such a device. - Ask OS's developpers if their distro can be ported easily or not on the device. - Decide how the device should be open (extensions, versatile ...) future-ready. - Find someone with a little bit of knowledge to find the chips references that would be included (GSM, SimCard holder, GPS..) - Opening a Wiki page to store all those steps results ! - Give some extra more ideas ! So feel free to answer those questions, add others. Thanks a lot AstHrO For example, coud it be possible to put a gobi2000 (GPS+3G) chip(1) in it ? How much does this cost ? Does this chip is sold in other factor ? ... (1) http://www.roundsolutions.com/shop/products/en/HSPA-modem/Option-GOBI2000-HSUPA-HSDPA-UMTS-Mini-PCI-Express-Card.html ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Voicerecording software needed
Dnia 2010-10-06, śro o godzinie 09:49 +0200, Patryk Benderz pisze: Dnia 2010-10-05, wto o godzinie 09:36 +0200, Nashvin Gangaram pisze: Voice Notes in QtMoko works well. Really? Does it start recording automatically when specified phone number is calling? I doubt it... I am sorry, I have somehow misinterpreted subject of this post. My previous sentence regarded callrecording software, which is apparently absent in functionality I need. Of course Voice Notes are working more than fina as pure _voice_ recording software. Again my apologies :) -- Patryk LeadMan Benderz Linux Registered User #377521 () ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail /\ www.asciiribbon.org - against proprietary attachments ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
New Phone Project (MiniMoko) : Which functionalities ?
Hi, As you might have read, Always Innovating (A.I.), is opened to think about a collaboration between them and us (Openmoko community) to build a phone based on their MiniBook. This device is a MID, without phone capabilities (except VoIP). So the idea is to build something together on that basis. I don't want AT ALL to shortcut GTA04 project, which is vital for everyone, so the main idea would be to improve a bit the MiniBook, generating a lite version of the GTA04. By lite, I suggest not to overload the bill motherboard with extra features that GTA04 will bring. More, The MiniBook have to stay an A.I. product, this mean, it must be linkable to the others as it does today. For information, MiniBook has already impressive specs : * TI http://www.ti.com cortex-A8 with 3D and video acceleration * 512MB (RAM) + 256MB (NAND) Memory * Main storage: 8GB microSD card * 480x320 3.5 capacitive touchscreen * 30fps VGA front webcam * Wifi 802.11 b/g/n, Bluetooth class 2.1 * Video output HDMI HD * Two high-quality stereo speakers * Internal microphone * Headphone jack * 3-dimensional accelerometer * One 1500 mAh battery * Bi-color silver/black case * 64mm x 106mm x 9.3mm * Secured attachment of the MID into a Touch Book Table There's nothing much to improve, nothing to remove, just adding GSM/3G chip. Nikolaus Schaller pointed the OPTION GTM501, which is a brilliant little chip ! And if we use the same one, the porting of distros/software will be easier from one machine to another. So, the first question is : What to add for this project being interresting ? Those will be minimal functions (forget Wimax, 4G, coffe machines or color printer ...). Second question : Debian is able to run on such a device, but does developpers of other distributions can tell if it would be possible to port their on it ? Third question : On the basis we have a 'paper' version of the phone, is there anyone able to give a hand to AI for the integration of new components on the board or do we let AI do the major part of the job ? (this way, we only would be 'consultants' for them). Thanks for your interest. Thomas. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New Phone Project (MiniMoko) : Which functionalities ?
On 06/10/2010 14:41, Thomas HOCEDEZ wrote: Hi, As you might have read, Always Innovating (A.I.), is opened to think about a collaboration between them and us (Openmoko community) to build a phone based on their MiniBook. This device is a MID, without phone capabilities (except VoIP). So the idea is to build something together on that basis. I don't want AT ALL to shortcut GTA04 project, which is vital for everyone, so the main idea would be to improve a bit the MiniBook, generating a lite version of the GTA04. By lite, I suggest not to overload the bill motherboard with extra features that GTA04 will bring. More, The MiniBook have to stay an A.I. product, this mean, it must be linkable to the others as it does today. For information, MiniBook has already impressive specs : * TI http://www.ti.com cortex-A8 with 3D and video acceleration * 512MB (RAM) + 256MB (NAND) Memory * Main storage: 8GB microSD card * 480x320 3.5 capacitive touchscreen * 30fps VGA front webcam * Wifi 802.11 b/g/n, Bluetooth class 2.1 * Video output HDMI HD * Two high-quality stereo speakers * Internal microphone * Headphone jack * 3-dimensional accelerometer * One 1500 mAh battery * Bi-color silver/black case * 64mm x 106mm x 9.3mm * Secured attachment of the MID into a Touch Book Table There's nothing much to improve, nothing to remove, just adding GSM/3G chip. Nikolaus Schaller pointed the OPTION GTM501, which is a brilliant little chip ! And if we use the same one, the porting of distros/software will be easier from one machine to another. So, the first question is : What to add for this project being interresting ? Those will be minimal functions (forget Wimax, 4G, coffe machines or color printer ...). Second question : Debian is able to run on such a device, but does developpers of other distributions can tell if it would be possible to port their on it ? Third question : On the basis we have a 'paper' version of the phone, is there anyone able to give a hand to AI for the integration of new components on the board or do we let AI do the major part of the job ? (this way, we only would be 'consultants' for them). Thanks for your interest. Thomas. I forgot to mention that it would be AWESOME to have some words in this idea from Sean M.P. ! ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New Phone Project (MiniMoko) : Which functionalities ?
Thomas HOCEDEZ thomas.hoce...@free.fr writes: their MiniBook. I would buy it, if it was wrist mountable; sort of a slide in mount on my wrist. -- Esben Stien is b...@e s a http://www. s tn m irc://irc. b - i . e/%23contact sip:b0ef@ e e jid:b0ef@n n ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New Phone Project (MiniMoko) : Which functionalities ?
Hi their MiniBook. I would buy it, if it was wrist mountable; sort of a slide in mount on my wrist. I would buy it. Full stop :-) I cant find any demo videoos on the minibook ? *-pike ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New Phone Project (MiniMoko) : Which functionalities ?
On 6 October 2010 13:41, Thomas HOCEDEZ thomas.hoce...@free.fr wrote: Hi, As you might have read, Always Innovating (A.I.), is opened to think about a collaboration between them and us (Openmoko community) to build a phone based on their MiniBook. Sounds like a great idea TI cortex-A8 with 3D and video acceleration 512MB (RAM) + 256MB (NAND) Memory Main storage: 8GB microSD card 480x320 3.5 capacitive touchscreen 30fps VGA front webcam Wifi 802.11 b/g/n, Bluetooth class 2.1 Video output HDMI HD Two high-quality stereo speakers Internal microphone Headphone jack Will it support headphone, with a microphone? 3-dimensional accelerometer One 1500 mAh battery Bi-color silver/black case 64mm x 106mm x 9.3mm Secured attachment of the MID into a Touch Book Table There's nothing much to improve, nothing to remove, just adding GSM/3G chip. Nikolaus Schaller pointed the OPTION GTM501, which is a brilliant little chip ! And if we use the same one, the porting of distros/software will be easier from one machine to another. So, the first question is : What to add for this project being interresting ? Those will be minimal functions (forget Wimax, 4G, coffe machines or color printer ...). I wouldn't consider getting one unless it also has a GPS chip. Cheers, Edwin ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New Phone Project (MiniMoko) : Which functionalities ?
+1 for a GPS chip also And availability in Europe (or more general: outside US)? Regards, Marc On Wed, Oct 6, 2010 at 3:33 PM, Edder ed...@tkwsping.nl wrote: On 6 October 2010 13:41, Thomas HOCEDEZ thomas.hoce...@free.fr wrote: Hi, As you might have read, Always Innovating (A.I.), is opened to think about a collaboration between them and us (Openmoko community) to build a phone based on their MiniBook. Sounds like a great idea TI cortex-A8 with 3D and video acceleration 512MB (RAM) + 256MB (NAND) Memory Main storage: 8GB microSD card 480x320 3.5 capacitive touchscreen 30fps VGA front webcam Wifi 802.11 b/g/n, Bluetooth class 2.1 Video output HDMI HD Two high-quality stereo speakers Internal microphone Headphone jack Will it support headphone, with a microphone? 3-dimensional accelerometer One 1500 mAh battery Bi-color silver/black case 64mm x 106mm x 9.3mm Secured attachment of the MID into a Touch Book Table There's nothing much to improve, nothing to remove, just adding GSM/3G chip. Nikolaus Schaller pointed the OPTION GTM501, which is a brilliant little chip ! And if we use the same one, the porting of distros/software will be easier from one machine to another. So, the first question is : What to add for this project being interresting ? Those will be minimal functions (forget Wimax, 4G, coffe machines or color printer ...). I wouldn't consider getting one unless it also has a GPS chip. Cheers, Edwin ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New Phone Project (MiniMoko) : Which functionalities ?
Thomas HOCEDEZ thomas.hoce...@free.fr writes: There's nothing much to improve, nothing to remove, just adding GSM/3G chip. Nikolaus Schaller pointed the OPTION GTM501, which is a brilliant little chip ! And if we use the same one, the porting of distros/software will be easier from one machine to another. I read http://www.option.com/en/products/products/modules/gtm501/specifications/#start that promises Fully documented APIs. Do you have access to these documents? ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New Phone Project (MiniMoko) : Which functionalities ?
* TI http://www.ti.com cortex-A8 with 3D and video acceleration * 512MB (RAM) + 256MB (NAND) Memory * Main storage: 8GB microSD card * 480x320 3.5 capacitive touchscreen * 30fps VGA front webcam * Wifi 802.11 b/g/n, Bluetooth class 2.1 * Video output HDMI HD * Two high-quality stereo speakers * Internal microphone * Headphone jack * 3-dimensional accelerometer * One 1500 mAh battery * Bi-color silver/black case * 64mm x 106mm x 9.3mm * Secured attachment of the MID into a Touch Book Table Looks like it miss USB connectivity and I need SSH strongly! Cheers __ Do You Yahoo!? Poco spazio e tanto spam? Yahoo! Mail ti protegge dallo spam e ti da tanto spazio gratuito per i tuoi file e i messaggi http://mail.yahoo.it ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New Phone Project (MiniMoko) : Which functionalities ?
On 10/6/10, Thomas HOCEDEZ thomas.hoce...@free.fr wrote: So, the first question is : What to add for this project being interresting ? Those will be minimal functions (forget Wimax, 4G, coffe machines or color printer ...). As for me I just want Voice Calls/SMS and thats all. Even gprs/3G not important, because I can attach separate dongle inside smartbook itself. Similar about GPS. Quality of FR's GPS was much worse than in separate devices, GPS inside MID might be even worse than in FR, implement nice GPS signal in MID could be very hard task. I'll prefer use separate GPS dongle. Second question : Debian is able to run on such a device, but does developpers of other distributions can tell if it would be possible to port their on it ? MID is very similar to n900, we can say that SHR already supports it, similar for all others distros which supports BeagleBoard. Touchbook now supported by many OS'es. So it is a question which distros have FSO support. Andoid also could be a option, especially if AI's multi-OS support works nice. Maksim ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New Phone Project (MiniMoko) : Which functionalities ?
Em 06-10-2010 13:41, Thomas HOCEDEZ escreveu: * 480x320 3.5 capacitive touchscreen A phone is the perfect size to integrate: * personal communication (phone, IM, social network) * always present camera (still or moving pictures) * computational needs (ssh somewhere, do stuff) * run useful programs (like email, web browser, games, other apps) For these to run well in a phone you need at least 480x800. The Freerunner's 480x640 is definitly too small for most web browsing. If I go one step further in size, I'm talking about tablets: From personal experience with a SmartQ7 (now sadly broken), I attest the following: 480x800 is *not* enough for displaying a more complex document properly (eg, a PDF with readable text and pleasently displayed), you need a bigger screensize. So when you consider such small resolutions... it's definitely not for me. But good luck, though. Rui ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New Phone Project (MiniMoko) : Which functionalities ?
Maksim 'max_posedon' Melnikau maxpose...@gmail.com writes: Similar about GPS. Quality of FR's GPS was much worse than in separate What do you mean by quality? Just TTFF? Together with rtklib you can get great precision. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New Phone Project (MiniMoko) : Which functionalities ?
On 10/6/10, Timo Juhani Lindfors timo.lindf...@iki.fi wrote: Maksim 'max_posedon' Melnikau maxpose...@gmail.com writes: Similar about GPS. Quality of FR's GPS was much worse than in separate What do you mean by quality? Just TTFF? Together with rtklib you can get great precision. Sorry, I don't have skills in GPS, I just see that FR have a problem with getting fix, and expect even more problems with gps(and gsm) in device, which wasn't designed to have nice wireless compatibility. Having lower GSM signal level isn't a problem - usually its very nice in cities. But gps in such conditions(in cities) can just become useless. One more note,I'm looking at MiniMoko just as *part* of full SmartBook. I really love this device in complex, its nice when I can have *same rootfs* in laptop, in phone, in tablet, in mobile tablet device. So, when people say that MiniMoko have small screen - I don't care, I would attach it in SmartTablet and have big screen. When I'll want keyboard - I'll attach keyboard and use SmartBook. This is reason, why (imho) GSM/3G Voice is very important, and GPS is less important for such device - just because GPS could be attached in tablet part. GPS is smth that you sometimes want to be always on and this is reason, why I want separate device - to keep battery. If somebody want use navigation from MiniBook, may be its time for them look at cell-nav projects once more? (openbmap, opencell and so on) Maksim ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: community Digest, Vol 204, Issue 8
openm...@pulster.de (Christoph Pulster) writes: an intelligent marketing idea. My idea on the later is, to point the finger in the Apple direction and naming the evil by name. This sounds really cool to me, Christoph. Honestly, i'd prefer to see more Apple (and Android as well) bashing. But do you have any success stories for this kind of marketing? On a related note, i think there's no commercial future with such a device. Openmoko proved that. Too few interested people, really too few. Despite Freerunner still being the only one. I'd tend to agree with Raster who says Let's get an open enough consumer device that can be sold to the masses and hack on it. -- Be free, use free (http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html) software! mailto:fercer...@gmail.com ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [QtMoko] Translate into Danish
Den 25-09-2010 20:37, Radek Polak skrev: sorry for delay, i was doing release and had to leave then. Anyway in the attachment is first bunch of files for translating. Rest is in my git and i can send it later. Hi again Now I have translated the first part. Would you be able to send the rest from the git to me? I will keep the translation internal for test before sending it back to you. -- Ole @ Carlsen-web.dk ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
[QtMoko] Translate into Norwegian
Hi! I would like to say that I have not had the time to translate anything into norwegian. If there is someone that have more time to spare, I would ask you to try ;-) I thought that I would have time for it, but school is taking up too much of my time. I can do some reviewing of the translating, but I do not think that I will have enough time to do the translating my self. Thanks. Regards Rune Gangstø ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
[ANNOUNCE] qi-bootmenu-0.2
Hi, I finally had some time to hack on qi-bootmenu the result is a new 0.2 release http://www.brain-dump.org/projects/qi-bootmenu/ with the following changes: - based on 2.6.34 this should hopefully fix some sd card related problems - static NAND boot option in the menu, the NAND partition is only mounted upon selection so there is no delay for sd based boots. To make NAND booting work out of the box it would be nice if the distros (I tried SHR and QtMoko) could add their kernels to the jffs2 images too. At the moment you have to ssh into the device mount the NAND partition, download their kernel and put it at the right place. Something along the lines of: ssh r...@$freerunner # the password is empty mkdir /mnt/mtdblock6 mount -t jffs2 /dev/mtdblock6 /mnt/mtdblock6 mkdir /mnt/mtdblock6/boot cd /mnt/mtdblock6/boot wget $KERNEL mv $KERNEL uImage-GTA02.bin Bonus points if the distros would place a bootlogo.png alongside the kernel (current preferred dimension is 100x80) - visual feedback upon boot selection. There seems to be a issue which ocassionally garbles parts of the font/text but I think it's better than before. - userspace updated to latest versions including EFL 1.0 beta release - integration of a cross toolchain into the build scripts. this should make rebuilding everything a matter of executing one shell script. Well at least in theory... Kernel and Qi ready to flash to your Freerunner can be found at: http://www.brain-dump.org/projects/qi-bootmenu/uImage-GTA02-bootmenu-0.2.bin http://www.brain-dump.org/projects/qi-bootmenu/qi-s3c2442-bootmenu-0.1.udfu If you flash the above Qi version, pressing AUX should boot from NAND and thus present the bootmenu independently of the content of your sd card. If you don't want to use my patched Qi then get it to boot from NAND in some other way, for example by putting noboot-GTA02 files into your sd partitions. Let me know how it works for you. The build scripts, in case anyone wants to rebuild the whole thing, can be found at: http://repo.or.cz/w/qi-bootmenu-system.git/snapshot/7c3a92f22e9498198212e4682b2fe078a676f1b5.tar.gz download and extract the tarball then run ./build.sh this will download everything that is needed and then build the kernel + initramfs. See the README file for further information. What remains to be done is - add ubifs support - read partition labels? or some other way to display custom text in the menu - gta01 support, this basically means kernel support in = 2.6.34 the kernel maximum size of 2MB including the initramfs should be doable - ... Patches welcome. Have fun, Marc -- Marc Andre Tanner http://www.brain-dump.org/ GPG key: CF7D56C0 ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: community Digest, Vol 204, Issue 8
Touchbook possible was a piece of crap. But new revision (Smartbook) looks really better. 1. resistive screen + stylus = multitouch capacitive screen 2. detachable core with screen - MID 3. and if phone functionality will be added to MID, it will became awesome device It doesn't matter that it has bad production quality, main thing - it gives us idea, that it possible have *one/same* rootfs for all your devices: notebook, some-pad, internet tabblet, phone. - no any synchronization anymore! As for commercial future: I hope AI will be successfully with their Smartbook, I hope openmoko-community will have success with OPTION GTM501. And I don't see real problem for AI, just add connectors and space MID to easy attach such/this gsm module. After this - its all up to customers. As for any other openmoko-related phone initiative, looking at smartbook, I'm asking this guys add 40pin connector[1]. If not its hard, just usb+hdmi. I know, its all about geek-world, but I hope market is big enough for such or smilar to Smartbook products. Such modularity is awesome. [1] http://www.alwaysinnovating.com/wiki/index.php/40-pin_connector ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: community Digest, Vol 204, Issue 8
Hey, Paul, disagree with your idea about impossibility of commercial success of opensource device. Declaimer: all things below is just my opinion, which is formed mostly by reading community ml from time to time in past. It would be interesting to read where and why i am wrong. :) В Срд, 06/10/2010 в 22:31 +0400, Paul Fertser пишет: openm...@pulster.de (Christoph Pulster) writes: an intelligent marketing idea. My idea on the later is, to point the finger in the Apple direction and naming the evil by name. It already has at least 1 good idea, no other smartphones have - OS and hardware separation. On a related note, i think there's no commercial future with such a device. Openmoko proved that. Sorry, but openmoko proved only that it is really possible to make open phone. Too few interested people, really too few. Now imagine, linus tovalds wrote linux initially... alone. yeah. it wrote it while big DOSes, Solarises, BSDs, MacOSes, mimixes, already existed and were fully functional. Yeah, OS he did lack of all features, had no chances to compete with that big giants, it were complete crap. Were this 'too much people'? Despite Freerunner still being the only one. Bwware, big portion of critics below: Why freerunner commercially failed (is it truth at all btw?), my version: 1. People got scarified with tons of grave software bugs (WSOD, partition table corruption, sd card speed, graphical subsystem speed, overall FR speed, events/0, debug kernel, that just _i_ know). All this were fixable, What would happen if all this were fixed in a week after FR release? 2. People scarified by core openmoko's own _developers_ who declare various subsystems are 'outdated' (CPU) or 'wrong' (glamo), and did nice PR. And all this were not really true. HW is good enought to do many things. 3. Community managment may be much better. I am usure if openmoko had dedicated guy to spend all time managing community. I saw some mails from people who offer help, unanswered. Yes, may be some offers were funny, may be 50% of that people will do nothing, but other 50% may easily build excellent community and greatly help project. I guess this is main cause of 'few people'. 4. Team were too small to handle such huge innovative project as freerunner (completely new software stack, adapt linux from almost 0 to be usable on such multifunctional device) from almost 0 to commercial success in reasonable time. One man did qt/x11. Other man did whole kernel and bootloader. One more man did testing. Yeahhh. One more whole graphical subsystem. 5. Tons of hardware bugs on initial release. And knowing that all them were fixed... just proves that it were possible to fix that faster, with bigger team. 6. Openmoko's team fixed problems is complete weird way. They did one interface, found it has some problems and instead of fixing problems they used qt interface, then instead of fixing problems of qt they switched to fsoe17, which i bet, still has problems on it's own. Instead of careful calculation why their device is slow and how fast it should be, then solved boot speed problem with disabling logs. Instead of fixing grave issues they draw fancy boot pictures. Instead of fixing u-boot Qi were implemented. (just things _i_ noticed) 7. Raster need special mentioning. Being smart and very professional man, he thought only about his own project, refusing to optimize latest interface for FR, injecting myths about hw slowness (320x200, 16 bit graphics, glamo bus speed, etc) and injecting that myths in _smart way_. This scarified poor community even more. All this bad PR were magnified greatly by openess of project (_magnified_), open ML, open communications. So, as you can see, not much in this list is related to word 'open' or open source at all. And problems with community size are not related to word 'open', i can say all this sounds more as problem of small team attempting to do huge thing in commercial way. And, as a conclusion - as it's possible to evade most of problems in list, and do not create others: all depends on people who making project, and bit of luck, and i think, it's perfectly possible to do nice opensource device. One may disagree and say that direct communication between developers and customers created varous problems like (2) (man say something in public, then should stand to death on his position), but this is only small part of question and depends on personalities. This mail look like hardcore rant to openmoko and FR, but in fact i think that people did great job - now several opensource stacks exist and very open phone exist, and community exist. This is great and very hacky :) I'd tend to agree with Raster who says Let's get an open enough consumer device that can be sold to the masses and hack on it. Keyword is 'sold to masses'. All other words are not important, you may rephrase Raster's idea Let's do ... device that can be sold to the masses ... . I bet such device will make Raster
wiki.openmoko.org unreachable?
I'm wondering if I've missed some announcement but wiki.openmoko.org seems unreachable since yesterday evening. a 'traceroute wiki.openmoko.org' shows an endless loop: 22 111 ms 111 ms 111 ms static.88-198-58-1.clients.your-server.de [88.198.58.1] 23 111 ms 113 ms 111 ms bhavani.openmoko.org [88.198.58.17] 24 111 ms 111 ms 111 ms static.88-198-58-1.clients.your-server.de [88.198.58.1] 25 111 ms 111 ms 111 ms bhavani.openmoko.org [88.198.58.17] 26 111 ms 123 ms 113 ms static.88-198-58-1.clients.your-server.de [88.198.58.1] 27 111 ms 111 ms 111 ms bhavani.openmoko.org [88.198.58.17] 28 111 ms 111 ms 111 ms static.88-198-58-1.clients.your-server.de [88.198.58.1] 29 111 ms 111 ms * bhavani.openmoko.org [88.198.58.17] 30 111 ms 111 ms 112 ms static.88-198-58-1.clients.your-server.de [88.198.58.1] Who is hosting this page? I'm wondering about the 'your-server.de' domain. I first thought this could be a problem with my provider (I'm in GER). But I get the above result from a machine that is located in the USA (where I have access to via vpn). Any ideas? Alex. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: community Digest, Vol 204, Issue 8
On Wed, Oct 06, 2010 at 11:59:47PM +0400, Gennady Kupava wrote: Hey, Paul, disagree with your idea about impossibility of commercial success of opensource device. Declaimer: all things below is just my opinion, which is formed mostly by reading community ml from time to time in past. It would be interesting to read where and why i am wrong. :) В Срд, 06/10/2010 в 22:31 +0400, Paul Fertser пишет: openm...@pulster.de (Christoph Pulster) writes: an intelligent marketing idea. My idea on the later is, to point the finger in the Apple direction and naming the evil by name. It already has at least 1 good idea, no other smartphones have - OS and hardware separation. On a related note, i think there's no commercial future with such a device. Openmoko proved that. Sorry, but openmoko proved only that it is really possible to make open phone. Too few interested people, really too few. Now imagine, linus tovalds wrote linux initially... alone. yeah. it wrote it while big DOSes, Solarises, BSDs, MacOSes, mimixes, already existed and were fully functional. Yeah, OS he did lack of all features, had no chances to compete with that big giants, it were complete crap. Were this 'too much people'? Despite Freerunner still being the only one. Bwware, big portion of critics below: Why freerunner commercially failed (is it truth at all btw?), my version: 1. People got scarified with tons of grave software bugs (WSOD, partition table corruption, sd card speed, graphical subsystem speed, overall FR speed, events/0, debug kernel, that just _i_ know). All this were fixable, What would happen if all this were fixed in a week after FR release? 2. People scarified by core openmoko's own _developers_ who declare various subsystems are 'outdated' (CPU) or 'wrong' (glamo), and did nice PR. And all this were not really true. HW is good enought to do many things. 3. Community managment may be much better. I am usure if openmoko had dedicated guy to spend all time managing community. I saw some mails from people who offer help, unanswered. Yes, may be some offers were funny, may be 50% of that people will do nothing, but other 50% may easily build excellent community and greatly help project. I guess this is main cause of 'few people'. 4. Team were too small to handle such huge innovative project as freerunner (completely new software stack, adapt linux from almost 0 to be usable on such multifunctional device) from almost 0 to commercial success in reasonable time. One man did qt/x11. Other man did whole kernel and bootloader. One more man did testing. Yeahhh. One more whole graphical subsystem. 5. Tons of hardware bugs on initial release. And knowing that all them were fixed... just proves that it were possible to fix that faster, with bigger team. 6. Openmoko's team fixed problems is complete weird way. They did one interface, found it has some problems and instead of fixing problems they used qt interface, then instead of fixing problems of qt they switched to fsoe17, which i bet, still has problems on it's own. Instead of careful calculation why their device is slow and how fast it should be, then solved boot speed problem with disabling logs. Instead of fixing grave issues they draw fancy boot pictures. Instead of fixing u-boot Qi were implemented. (just things _i_ noticed) 7. Raster need special mentioning. Being smart and very professional man, he thought only about his own project, refusing to optimize latest interface for FR, injecting myths about hw slowness (320x200, 16 bit graphics, glamo bus speed, etc) and injecting that myths in _smart way_. This scarified poor community even more. All this bad PR were magnified greatly by openess of project (_magnified_), open ML, open communications. So, as you can see, not much in this list is related to word 'open' or open source at all. And problems with community size are not related to word 'open', i can say all this sounds more as problem of small team attempting to do huge thing in commercial way. And, as a conclusion - as it's possible to evade most of problems in list, and do not create others: all depends on people who making project, and bit of luck, and i think, it's perfectly possible to do nice opensource device. One may disagree and say that direct communication between developers and customers created varous problems like (2) (man say something in public, then should stand to death on his position), but this is only small part of question and depends on personalities. This mail look like hardcore rant to openmoko and FR, but in fact i think that people did great job - now several opensource stacks exist and very open phone exist, and community exist. This is great and very hacky :) I'd tend to agree with Raster who says Let's get an open enough consumer device that can be sold to the masses and hack on it. Keyword is 'sold
Re: wiki.openmoko.org unreachable?
Yes, at least since 15.00 (6th October) o'clock I couldn't connect to it. urodelo On Wed, 06 Oct 2010 23:53:14 +0200, Alexander Lehner leh...@edv-buero-lehner.de wrote: I'm wondering if I've missed some announcement but wiki.openmoko.org seems unreachable since yesterday evening. a 'traceroute wiki.openmoko.org' shows an endless loop: 22 111 ms 111 ms 111 ms static.88-198-58-1.clients.your-server.de [88.198.58.1] 23 111 ms 113 ms 111 ms bhavani.openmoko.org [88.198.58.17] 24 111 ms 111 ms 111 ms static.88-198-58-1.clients.your-server.de [88.198.58.1] 25 111 ms 111 ms 111 ms bhavani.openmoko.org [88.198.58.17] 26 111 ms 123 ms 113 ms static.88-198-58-1.clients.your-server.de [88.198.58.1] 27 111 ms 111 ms 111 ms bhavani.openmoko.org [88.198.58.17] 28 111 ms 111 ms 111 ms static.88-198-58-1.clients.your-server.de [88.198.58.1] 29 111 ms 111 ms * bhavani.openmoko.org [88.198.58.17] 30 111 ms 111 ms 112 ms static.88-198-58-1.clients.your-server.de [88.198.58.1] Who is hosting this page? I'm wondering about the 'your-server.de' domain. I first thought this could be a problem with my provider (I'm in GER). But I get the above result from a machine that is located in the USA (where I have access to via vpn). Any ideas? Alex. -- Creato con il rivoluzionario client e-mail di Opera: http://www.opera.com/mail/ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New Phone Project (MiniMoko) : Which functionalities ?
Le 06/10/2010 14:41, Thomas HOCEDEZ a écrit : Hi, As you might have read, Always Innovating (A.I.), is opened to think about a collaboration between them and us (Openmoko community) to build a phone based on their MiniBook. IMHO, this is probably the best news since a (too) long time ! It's a really GREAT idea ! Let me explain my dream : A MiniMoko with at least : - GSM/3G - mini-USB port (with host mode ?) - GPS less important : - better camera (for shots) - bluetooth (for headphones + mic) - higher screen resolution And finally will need a simple dock for home with : - HDMI port (- desktop screen) - USB ports (- mouse + keyboard + peripherals) - hard disk (- sata ? USB3 ?) That would be the perfect device ! I'm not enought skilled in hardware nor software development, but I will buy one ! I'm ready to pre-order now for those features at reasonnable cost ;-) -- /swap38 http://openmoko-fr.org ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: We can have Help from Always Innovating !
05.10.2010 15:56, Thomas HOCEDEZ пишет: On 20/09/2010 17:22, Thomas HOCEDEZ wrote: Le 20/09/2010 16:26, Maksim 'max_posedon' Melnikau a écrit : Adding GSM to MID-device definitely will make this device extra-cool. Does somebody have idea how GSM could be added there? Voice is most important feature for me. 3G and so on, could be connected to touchbook part. May be its possible attach some gsm board? (FR's or others). Maksim In fact, I think I will try to reach them. I'll give you the answer asap. Hang on dudes, please sit cumfortably, and read this message slowly ! This is the answer of a message I sent A.I. to try to find a way to work with them. - Hello Thomas, Thank you for your interest in our products. This can definitely be an interesting opportunity. As an early-stage startup, we don't have that much money and time to give upfront, but the idea remains seducing, and we may share what's already done to help things to go on. We obviously know Openmoko's Freerunner, but didn't play with it really much, nor know the team behind this device. How do you imagine things from your point of view: what do you have to bring into such a shared project, and how do you see the working-together process? Best, Alexandre - Always Innovating Team --- Tada ! Everythnig is now open to find a way to mix Openmoko V4 project with the base of the A.I.'s MID. As I said earlier, their specs are online, and the GTA04 project is progressing fast, nut with a litlle help on hardware it could be faster ! I want to answer Alexandre (I think he is the one from the videos), this week, to give a first clue on how we wanted to work. So, Let's get imaginative : it's a brainstorm session ! Asthro, so happy ! ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community I think to have 5 or 7 mpx back camera will be very nice feature. As for me, this is very important feature. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New Phone Project (MiniMoko) : Which functionalities ?
06.10.2010 19:41, Thomas HOCEDEZ ?: Hi, As you might have read, Always Innovating (A.I.), is opened to think about a collaboration between them and us (Openmoko community) to build a phone based on their MiniBook. This device is a MID, without phone capabilities (except VoIP). So the idea is to build something together on that basis. I don't want AT ALL to shortcut GTA04 project, which is vital for everyone, so the main idea would be to improve a bit the MiniBook, generating a lite version of the GTA04. By lite, I suggest not to overload the bill motherboard with extra features that GTA04 will bring. More, The MiniBook have to stay an A.I. product, this mean, it must be linkable to the others as it does today. For information, MiniBook has already impressive specs : * TI http://www.ti.com cortex-A8 with 3D and video acceleration * 512MB (RAM) + 256MB (NAND) Memory * Main storage: 8GB microSD card * 480x320 3.5 capacitive touchscreen * 30fps VGA front webcam * Wifi 802.11 b/g/n, Bluetooth class 2.1 * Video output HDMI HD * Two high-quality stereo speakers * Internal microphone * Headphone jack * 3-dimensional accelerometer * One 1500 mAh battery * Bi-color silver/black case * 64mm x 106mm x 9.3mm * Secured attachment of the MID into a Touch Book Table There's nothing much to improve, nothing to remove, just adding GSM/3G chip. Nikolaus Schaller pointed the OPTION GTM501, which is a brilliant little chip ! And if we use the same one, the porting of distros/software will be easier from one machine to another. So, the first question is : What to add for this project being interresting ? Those will be minimal functions (forget Wimax, 4G, coffe machines or color printer ...). Second question : Debian is able to run on such a device, but does developpers of other distributions can tell if it would be possible to port their on it ? Third question : On the basis we have a 'paper' version of the phone, is there anyone able to give a hand to AI for the integration of new components on the board or do we let AI do the major part of the job ? (this way, we only would be 'consultants' for them). Thanks for your interest. Thomas. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community GPS(I highly use it outdoors), 3G, 5-7 mpx camera(It would be nice if you always have camera with you) on back, buttons for increase/decrease volume. Better screen resolution is less important, but I think 800x480 now is standard for such device. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
