Re: How to bring forward the community?
Hi, Am 27. Februar 2012 11:51 schrieb Nikita V. Youshchenko yo...@debian.org: So I would like to encourage to share what you are working on (kernel? driver? user space?) and what you think would bring forward the Openmoko community a small or big step.. Any idea is welcome (even if you think we already know about it). If anything is welcome then... I've left OpenMoko commutiny long ago, but I'm really disapponted by today's devices and I want to return. Unfortunately N900 changed my mind and now I consider hardware qwerty keyboard not an option but a must. I will immediately order any GTA04 successor that will have qwerty keyboard. I was about to write the same thing. I own a HP Pre3 with a keyboard, and I dont want to miss one on my next phone. But today, the phone droped on the floor from a height of one meter. The front glass broke.. That reminded me of my GTA02. I could give the phone to my kids, and nothing broke. So finally, a tough case and a keyboad :). Since I'll send the pre3 for repair, I will reactivate the GTA02 again. regards Andreas ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [QT] Debugging apps help.
2012/2/29 Πρεκατές Αλέξανδρος apreka...@gmail.com: When using gdb on the device wont we miss the source files ? i mean, we'll be able to see the source line in gdb on the device? Depending on your need. A simple gdb without sources can help identify some problems. But you can also certainly use gdb for remote debugging: http://davis.lbl.gov/Manuals/GDB/gdb_17.html -- Guilhem BONNEFILLE -=- JID: gu...@im.apinc.org MSN: guilhem_bonnefi...@hotmail.com -=- mailto:guilhem.bonnefi...@gmail.com -=- http://nathguil.free.fr/ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: How to bring forward the community?
El día Wednesday, February 29, 2012 a las 09:05:11AM +0100, Andreas Pokorny escribió: If anything is welcome then... I've left OpenMoko commutiny long ago, but I'm really disapponted by today's devices and I want to return. Unfortunately N900 changed my mind and now I consider hardware qwerty keyboard not an option but a must. I will immediately order any GTA04 successor that will have qwerty keyboard. a hardware qwerty keyboard consumes a lot of space in the surface of the device; better would be a fingerfriendly touch screen qwerty or an USB keyboard which attaches good and stable to the device somehow on the right side of the FR; just my 2 pesos cubanos matthias -- Matthias Apitz e g...@unixarea.de - w http://www.unixarea.de/ UNIX since V7 on PDP-11, UNIX on mainframe since ESER 1055 (IBM /370) UNIX on x86 since SVR4.2 UnixWare 2.1.2, FreeBSD since 2.2.5 ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: How to bring forward the community?
Am 29.02.2012 um 09:05 schrieb Andreas Pokorny: Hi, Am 27. Februar 2012 11:51 schrieb Nikita V. Youshchenko yo...@debian.org: So I would like to encourage to share what you are working on (kernel? driver? user space?) and what you think would bring forward the Openmoko community a small or big step.. Any idea is welcome (even if you think we already know about it). If anything is welcome then... I've left OpenMoko commutiny long ago, but I'm really disapponted by today's devices and I want to return. Unfortunately N900 changed my mind and now I consider hardware qwerty keyboard not an option but a must. I will immediately order any GTA04 successor that will have qwerty keyboard. I was about to write the same thing. I own a HP Pre3 with a keyboard, and I dont want to miss one on my next phone. But today, the phone droped on May I ask why you need a (mechanical) keyboard? The reason why we don't cry hurray, we add one in the next release is that it is *very* complicated to get one that works well (you most likely don't want a bad one just to have it). The first aspect is mechanics. A keyboard should be sliding in and out or otherwise the device becomes much bigger than dictated by the display (which should also become bigger). Next thing is: what is a really good keyboard? How much pressure, which button size, etc. Then, we have to define a keyboard layout. QWERTY or ABCDEF. Add numeric keys or make them Num+QWERTY to save one row of keys. And to unsimplify, we need a US, a UK, a German, a French, an Italian layout and maybe Chinese, Japanese etc. This is doable by exchanging keycaps or keymats - but we have to stock and provide several different ones. Finally, designing a really good and working keyboard is almost as expensive as designing a new injection mould... Compare this with readily available small bluetooth keyboards in the 25-50 EUR range... So we simply recommend to purchase such a thing because we never can get one such cheap. All this could be so simple if we have a software keyboard on the LCD :) Just choose what you want by software. Choose between different input methods. No hardware changes needed. Robust against water, and keycap wear off. This is why we try to avoid making any keyboard. So let us understand what the issues are with a onscreen keyboard and try to improve that. Let's join forces of this community and develop the best and really useable on-screen keyboard in the world! Nikolaus ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: How to bring forward the community?
hey E.g. * QtMoko SHR vs. Android iOS Win Mobile etc.! * GTA04's flexibility and hw-modifiability vs. any commercial device! * the art of self modifiable 3D-printed case vs. take what you get! I think you would need to fine tune that example. There is at least one android version that work rather nicely on the freerunner, not good battery life being the one draw back. I don't think you should be making an enemy of android. -- David Matthews m...@dmatthews.org ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: How to bring forward the community?
Am 29.02.2012 um 10:20 schrieb dmatthews.org: hey E.g. * QtMoko SHR vs. Android iOS Win Mobile etc.! * GTA04's flexibility and hw-modifiability vs. any commercial device! * the art of self modifiable 3D-printed case vs. take what you get! I think you would need to fine tune that example. There is at least one android version that work rather nicely on the freerunner, not good battery life being the one draw back. I don't think you should be making an enemy of android. Yes, you are right. And maybe it is the main problem of our community... Android is not a real enemy, but #1. So whom to compete with? And why? What I therefore think we should support is: http://fsfe.org/campaigns/android/android.en.html BR, Nikolaus ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: How to bring forward the community?
On Feb 27, Nikita V. Youshchenko wrote: today's devices and I want to return. Unfortunately N900 changed my mind and now I consider hardware qwerty keyboard not an option but a must. I will immediately order any GTA04 successor that will have qwerty keyboard. using a bluetooth keyboard might be an option (which is what I'm considering) like these, unfortuneately they are QWERTZ and not QWERTY, but that's only labeling... http://www.pearl.de/a-PX2563-1002.shtml?query=bluetooth+keyboard does anyone know similar keyboards with real QWERTY layout ? Harald -- I hope to die ___ _ before I *have* to use Microsoft Word., 0--,|/OOO\ Donald E. Knuth, 02-Oct-2001 in Tuebingen._/ / /OOO\ \ \/OOO\ \ O|// \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/ Harald Koenig // / \\ \ koe...@tat.physik.uni-tuebingen.de ^ ^ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: How to bring forward the community?
[cut] does anyone know similar keyboards with real QWERTY layout ? This one on picture seems to be QWERTY [1], however the description says it is QWERTZ. You need to ask them... [1] http://www.pearl.de/a-PX4806-1002.shtml -- Patryk LeadMan Benderz Linux Registered User #377521 () ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail /\ www.asciiribbon.org - against proprietary attachments ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: How to bring forward the community?
[cut] does anyone know similar keyboards with real QWERTY layout ? ...or this one [1]. Generally google returns a lot of information on this topic. [1] http://www.uberreview.com/2010/05/tiny-bluetooth-qwerty-keyboard-for-smartphones.htm -- Patryk LeadMan Benderz Linux Registered User #377521 () ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail /\ www.asciiribbon.org - against proprietary attachments ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [QT] make -clean error
[cut] I run it without '-' but still the job stops with the same errors.. Maybe there is no such target (clean) defined in a Makefile? -- Patryk LeadMan Benderz Linux Registered User #377521 () ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail /\ www.asciiribbon.org - against proprietary attachments ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: How to bring forward the community?
May I ask why you need a (mechanical) keyboard? Because typing text on hardware keyboard (at least, one on N900 or on SonyEricsson sk18i that I'm using currently) is 10 times faster than doing so on any onscreen keyboard I've seen. Having keyboard actually turns a phone (i.e. device to do calls, plus occasional short message or short web search query) into mobile computer that can be used for convenient chatting, writing large e-mails and even documents, work in unix shell, programming, etc. The difference is dramatic. The first aspect is mechanics. A keyboard should be sliding in and out or otherwise the device becomes much bigger than dictated by the display (which should also become bigger). Next thing is: what is a really good keyboard? How much pressure, which button size, etc. n900 had all that good. Then, we have to define a keyboard layout. QWERTY or ABCDEF. Add numeric keys or make them Num+QWERTY to save one row of keys. And to unsimplify, we need a US, a UK, a German, a French, an Italian layout and maybe Chinese, Japanese etc. This is doable by exchanging keycaps or keymats - but we have to stock and provide several different ones. Layout could be changed via software. What is actually printed on keys, does not matter much, it is changable on user side. Finally, designing a really good and working keyboard is almost as expensive as designing a new injection mould... Isn't it possible, under some conditions, to reuse parts from phones already on market? Compare this with readily available small bluetooth keyboards in the 25-50 EUR range... So we simply recommend to purchase such a thing because we never can get one such cheap. Two devices is not the same as single device. We are talking about a phone = device that user takes with him almost everywhere. It is also possible to use a netbook. But it is not the same as using a phone. Bluetooth keyboard can become an option only if coupled with a case that binds phone and keyboard together, and still fits into pocket. So it is still usable e.g. when standing in crowded transport. All this could be so simple if we have a software keyboard on the LCD :) Just choose what you want by software. Choose between different input methods. No hardware changes needed. Robust against water, and keycap wear off. ... and inability to use it for anything larger than yes-no-style answers. This is why we try to avoid making any keyboard. That's sad. It means no devices for me from your camp ... :( So let us understand what the issues are with a onscreen keyboard and try to improve that Conflicts for space on tiny (touch)screen with everything else. Does not feel 3d, thus too easy to touch neighbour key. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: How to bring forward the community?
[cut] does anyone know similar keyboards with real QWERTY layout ? ...or this one [1]. Generally google returns a lot of information on this topic. [1] http://www.uberreview.com/2010/05/tiny-bluetooth-qwerty-keyboard-for-smartphones.htm I own a similar one (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Mini-Pocket-Bluetooth-Keyboard-PC-PDA-Phone-/260694344470) but I've never been able to use it on my freerunner. I get it paired (and some traffic is visible hcidump on SHR) but it never worked as input device. Did you have any (successful) experience? Regards, Giacomo -- ## giacomo 'giotti' mariani gpg --keyserver pool.sks-keyservers.net --recv-key 0x99bfa859 O ASCII ribbon campaign: stop HTML mail www.asciiribbon.org ## ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: How to bring forward the community?
Same here. No success with http://www.dealextreme.com/p/bluetooth-v2-0-wireless-keyboard-with-protective-case-for-apple-ipad-black-55976 on qtmoko. Debian not tested yet.. Giacomo 'giotti' Mariani писал 29.02.2012 14:45: [cut] does anyone know similar keyboards with real QWERTY layout ? ...or this one [1]. Generally google returns a lot of information on this topic. [1] http://www.uberreview.com/2010/05/tiny-bluetooth-qwerty-keyboard-for-smartphones.htm I own a similar one (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Mini-Pocket-Bluetooth-Keyboard-PC-PDA-Phone-/260694344470) but I've never been able to use it on my freerunner. I get it paired (and some traffic is visible hcidump on SHR) but it never worked as input device. Did you have any (successful) experience? Regards, Giacomo ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: How to bring forward the community?
Android is not a real enemy, but #1. So whom to compete with? And why? What I therefore think we should support is: http://fsfe.org/campaigns/android/android.en.html Yes that makes more sense; while I'm at it my 2 cents regarding more general problems.I know this has been discussed already and I understand the financial angle, but the freerunner screen compared to the latest and greatest No matter how much better you are making the rest of the hardware, with the freerunner screen you have a device that is not anywhere near top league. -- David Matthews m...@dmatthews.org ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: How to bring forward the community?
On 28.02.2012 21:22, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote: Does anyone know how many units have been subscribed in total? And when it is planned to become available? Nikolaus Hi, yes. I saw one of those at FOSDEM. They didn't produce any tablet, but used the chinese Zenithink C71 [0] tablet, which is available for about 80€. Though, they managed to get a FOSS kernel running on it. Lukas signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: How to bring forward the community?
On Tuesday 28 February 2012 21:22:40 Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote: Am 28.02.2012 um 09:47 schrieb Davide Scaini: I think that the success of spark [1] explains the failure of GTA04. My 2 cents d [1] http://aseigo.blogspot.com/2012/02/spark-pre-orders-closed.html May be, but I am not sure. A 7 inch tablet (and much worse pixel per inch) without UMTS and no GPS and other gimmicks is not really a smartphone platform like the GTA04... The price of 200 EUR/USD is indeed good and I still wonder how they can make it such cheap. Except if they produce thousands of units. It's no secret the same hardware is widely sold as an android device for ~half that. From http://aseigo.blogspot.com/2012/02/spark-answers.html Q: Is the Spark based on the Zenithink C71? A: Yes. The Internet is a clever bunch indeed. Took people all of about 5 minutes to figure that one out. :) Q: Does that mean I will be able to install Plasma Active on a C71 device I purchased elsewhere? A: Yes, that's all in the spirit of openness. However, if you break it, you get to keep both pieces. :) Keep in mind that by purchasing a Spark you will help drive development of Plasma Active, Mer and the push towards an open ARM ecosystem. Q: There are no GPL compliant sources for the C71, right? A: We are aware of this, and we've been working on it. It's been one of the hardest things to accomplish in the entire project. Does anyone know how many units have been subscribed in total? There's no exact figure given, but the link in the grandparent suggests thousands. And when it is planned to become available? Q: When will Spark start shipping? A: We expect to start shipping Sparks to you starting in May 2012. We have a lot of pieces to coordinate, and not just technical issues like the OS image and the content add-on store, but things like packaging design, manufacturing, shipping, import, retail channel coordination. So far we're on track, but I don't want to offer a more precise date than May until we pull the trigger on production. Nikolaus ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: How to bring forward the community?
Hi, On Wed, Feb 29, 2012 at 5:45 AM, Giacomo 'giotti' Mariani giacomomari...@yahoo.it wrote: I own a similar one ( http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Mini-Pocket-Bluetooth-Keyboard-PC-PDA-Phone-/260694344470 ) but I've never been able to use it on my freerunner. I get it paired (and some traffic is visible hcidump on SHR) but it never worked as input device. Did you have any (successful) experience? I've had a few bluetooth keyboards and a bluetooth mouse paired and function with my Neo. I can't remember what software rev it was, but if it works in the cranky old stuff I was using, I'm sure it should work in a later version. The instructions, IIRC, were a bit cryptic to get it going, but it works great. The only complaint I had at the time was that the onscreen keyboard would sometimes insist on hanging around, and that was eating up way too much screen real estate. So, there have been some successes. I might dig my device out of hibernation and try to give it a bit of love -- if I do, be assured I'll look at the BT stuff. Thanks, Gerald ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: How to bring forward the community?
Hello, On Wed, Feb 29, 2012 at 3:27 AM, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller h...@goldelico.com wrote: [Leadup discussion pruned] May I ask why you need a (mechanical) keyboard? Some people like it. While I do like a mechanical keyboard, I find the ones in most mobile devices too small. I can touch type, so now I have to relearn all over to thumb type, which I don't like so much. And, onscreen keyboards suck. :S They are fine for typing a few words, but not e-mails or conversations. One thing that is important in a mobile device is tradeoffs. The big plus of such a device is that it can fit in your pocket. I haven't yet seen a decent keyboard that is foldable (but lots of crap ones). So, in my opinion, the question shouldn't be do you want/need a mechanical keyboard, but rather would adding this bring the subscription rate over 100%? If it would, even if it adds to the cost, it's something to consider. If it's only going to be a feature that will bring subscriptions along 10%, then it should be something considered for a future model. Thanks, Gerald ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: How to bring forward the community?
Am 29.02.2012 um 18:05 schrieb Gerald A: Hello, On Wed, Feb 29, 2012 at 3:27 AM, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller h...@goldelico.com wrote: [Leadup discussion pruned] May I ask why you need a (mechanical) keyboard? Some people like it. Yes, I know and want to better understand why. It looks as if they like them because they feel better than on-screen keyboards. While I do like a mechanical keyboard, I find the ones in most mobile devices too small. I can touch type, so now I have to relearn all over to thumb type, which I don't like so much. And, onscreen keyboards suck. :S They are fine for typing a few words, but not e-mails or conversations. One thing that is important in a mobile device is tradeoffs. The big plus of such a device is that it can fit in your pocket. I haven't yet seen a decent keyboard that is foldable (but lots of crap ones). So, in my opinion, the question shouldn't be do you want/need a mechanical keyboard, but rather would adding this bring the subscription rate over 100%? If it would, even if it adds to the cost, it's something to consider. If it's only going to be a feature that will bring subscriptions along 10%, then it should be something considered for a future model. Well, I would not put too much focus on the group tour subscriptions only. For the group tour there is neither enough time to develop a mechanical keyboard nor add it to the device. So even if it would increase subscription by 1000%, it is not possible without delaying the project by 1-2 years. And, I expect that the cost is simply beyond imagination... The reason is that we can't go to some catalog distributor like DigiKey or Mouser and buy a keyboard module at 5 EUR. It has to be designed and tested. Nikolaus ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: How to bring forward the community?
So the question is, with whom we (this community) are competing? E.g. * QtMoko SHR vs. Android iOS Win Mobile etc.! * GTA04's flexibility and hw-modifiability vs. any commercial device! * the art of self modifiable 3D-printed case vs. take what you get! imo, android _is_ the main opponent. let's face it, openmoko has left its mark in the archives and everything in it's wake will inevitably evoke those reminiscences, thus linking any further effort to the geek phone (and as we all know, it's not entirely unjustified). i am convinced that people readile buying symbian, baida or windows phones do not even remotely consider purchasing a GTAxx -- the user base GTAxx are targeting to a large extend intersects with those buying an android phone intending to jailbreak it (or whatever the right term may be, i am not familiar with the scene's vernacular ;-) those are people somewhat prepared to take a risk with their phone and to invest time to make it fit their demands. taking myself as an example, i currently own an n900 and without any intention of replacing it in a near future, look around for devices qualifying -- and any possible device runs android, just because it is closest to being open. i am not that much satisfied with maemo's openess, but it's still better than anything i've seem from android so far, and android's openess is much better tahn anything else on today's amrtphone market. despite supporting the open hardware idea and cherishing its ideals, i don't think the vast majority of potential GTAxx customers value it so high as to let it tip the scales in favour of GTAxx -- so for anyone not just looking for a truly open device, GTAxx can't really compete with today's middle class devices (apple, samsung), or rather, GTAxx shouldn't be pitched against those devices, but rather see itslef as a class of its own. so, to conclude and repeat, software-wise android is the main opponent -- hardware-wise it's better to see GTAxx as class of it's own w/o real competitor. if GTAxx runs android, it will be just another android smartphone, albeit with the advantage of faster updates and longer support, since you're not forced to wait for the vendor to release newer firmware or even to decide, if that device should recieve updates at all anymore. supporting fsfe's replicant os initiative might be interesting, but besides other questions, i fear it will peter out soon without noticeable effect ... cheers ps: maybe my english is too limited, but self modifiable 3D-printed case sounds like it would modify itself, morphing into ... odd shapes ;-) -- Schon vor dem Come-Back von Modern Talking wusste ich: Dieter Bohlen ist der Preis der Freiheit. Heinz Rudolf Kunze ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
HW keyboard was: Re: How to bring forward the community?
i too own a n900 and i too are looking for devices with a hwardware keyboard included. i used to be a big fan of graffiti (v1), but after using the n900 with its keyboard for two years now i have to say, it's no match. writing is much faster, using a shell for complex tasks was not really an option with an onscreen keyboard and best of all, it does not use up precious screen space. a bt keyboard is not really an option: - it's just another piece of stuff you have to carry and remember - using bt needs power (i know, the builtin hw keyboard does too, but as much?) - keyboard needs power - it's not necessarily reliable (there's a recent report of failure and i remember others) - how do you hold both phone and keyboard in, say, a bus or the train? with the builtin keyboard it's just one piece and holding and typing is one. while i understand your points, it doesn't really address the request but just stresses GTA04's limitations ;-) cheers Hi, Am 27. Februar 2012 11:51 schrieb Nikita V. Youshchenko yo...@debian.org: So I would like to encourage to share what you are working on (kernel? driver? user space?) and what you think would bring forward the Openmoko community a small or big step.. Any idea is welcome (even if you think we already know about it). If anything is welcome then... I've left OpenMoko commutiny long ago, but I'm really disapponted by today's devices and I want to return. Unfortunately N900 changed my mind and now I consider hardware qwerty keyboard not an option but a must. I will immediately order any GTA04 successor that will have qwerty keyboard. I was about to write the same thing. I own a HP Pre3 with a keyboard, and I dont want to miss one on my next phone. But today, the phone droped on May I ask why you need a (mechanical) keyboard? The reason why we don't cry hurray, we add one in the next release is that it is *very* complicated to get one that works well (you most likely don't want a bad one just to have it). The first aspect is mechanics. A keyboard should be sliding in and out or otherwise the device becomes much bigger than dictated by the display (which should also become bigger). Next thing is: what is a really good keyboard? How much pressure, which button size, etc. Then, we have to define a keyboard layout. QWERTY or ABCDEF. Add numeric keys or make them Num+QWERTY to save one row of keys. And to unsimplify, we need a US, a UK, a German, a French, an Italian layout and maybe Chinese, Japanese etc. This is doable by exchanging keycaps or keymats - but we have to stock and provide several different ones. Finally, designing a really good and working keyboard is almost as expensive as designing a new injection mould... Compare this with readily available small bluetooth keyboards in the 25-50 EUR range... So we simply recommend to purchase such a thing because we never can get one such cheap. All this could be so simple if we have a software keyboard on the LCD :) Just choose what you want by software. Choose between different input methods. No hardware changes needed. Robust against water, and keycap wear off. This is why we try to avoid making any keyboard. So let us understand what the issues are with a onscreen keyboard and try to improve that. Let's join forces of this community and develop the best and really useable on-screen keyboard in the world! Nikolaus ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- Schon vor dem Come-Back von Modern Talking wusste ich: Dieter Bohlen ist der Preis der Freiheit. Heinz Rudolf Kunze ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: HW keyboard was: Re: How to bring forward the community?
The biggest benefit of a hardware keyboard is that you don't need to type as accurate, touching other keys while pressing one does not affect that much. (If it does you can feel it.) To hit a key on a touchscreen keyboard needs the center of the finger to be inside the buttons region, on a hardware keyboard it's the highest pressure which defines the key to be pressed. On small hardware keyboard it's possible to write different letters without really lifting the thumb form it (it's also possible without moving, by rolling the thumb sidewards). People simply prefer hardware keyboard because they like to do less mistypings and see the complete screen. Does the touchscreen provide pressure data? Using pressure data could possibly make at least aiming the keys similar like on hardware keyboards, maybe I could type more accurate this way. So let us understand what the issues are with a onscreen keyboard and try to improve that. Let's join forces of this community and develop the best and really useable on-screen keyboard in the world! Nikolaus ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [QT] make -clean error
[cut] I run it without '-' but still the job stops with the same errors.. Maybe there is no such target (clean) defined in a Makefile? -- Patryk LeadMan Benderz Linux Registered User #377521 () ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail /\ www.asciiribbon.org - against proprietary attachments ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community there is. radekp-qtmoko-build$ less Makefile clean: @echo make: running qbuild clean @/home/chomwitt/programming/QT4/radekp-qtmoko-build/sdk/bin/qbuild - from-make $(MAKE) clean ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: How to bring forward the community?
On 02/29/2012 06:50 PM, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote: Am 29.02.2012 um 18:05 schrieb Gerald A: Some people like it. Yes, I know and want to better understand why. It looks as if they like them because they feel better than on-screen keyboards. I think this is precisely it, actually. Maybe you just haven't realized how important feel actually is for this kind of thing, at least for some people. When I type, either on a (closer-to-)full-size keyboard like on my netbook, or on a smaller mobile keyboard like on my NanoNote or E51, I do it mostly by feel - I slide my fingers across the keyboard, feeling each key as I pass it (or maybe more accurately, the edges between them), and then stop at the right key and apply more pressure, until I feel it has been clicked (there's usually a threshold). All of that is done in my fingers, by touch/feel, which means they can fairly easily learn how to do it more or less by themselves - leaving my mind free for the task at hand (maybe except for the rarely used keys that my fingers haven't learned yet). Contrast with an on-screen keyboard, where I have to hover my fingers above the screen instead of sliding across, and touch the screen to click a key - which provides no tactile feedback for which key I'm currently above, and no threshold that tells me when the key is clicked. That forces me to look at the keyboard instead of at what I'm doing with it, and spend some concentration on the typing itself - and doesn't allow my fingers to rest on the keyboard. On-screen keyboards also tend to be even smaller than physical ones, even if only because you have to also see what you're actually working on. Another thing is that on small keyboards like my NN, I don't always need to move my fingers to hit two separate keys - since my thumbs are larger than the keys, I can stop my thumb near an edge, press on one key, then just tilt the finger a bit and press the other. Since I can feel both the edge and which key was pressed, that works fairly well, with little thought. Now, the NN's keyboard is hardly the best ever - but it still works better for me than on-screen keyboards, where I usually have to resort to a stylus to have much chance of getting things done with any speed. -- Regards, Frode P.S. I'm actually buying a GTA04 anyway - I'm already in the Group Tour - as the keyboard isn't *that* important to me personally, as long as I don't need to do too much typing on the device itself. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: How to bring forward the community?
On Wed, 29 Feb 2012 23:09:28 +0100 EdorFaus edorf...@xepher.net wrote: On 02/29/2012 06:50 PM, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote: Am 29.02.2012 um 18:05 schrieb Gerald A: Some people like it. Yes, I know and want to better understand why. It looks as if they like them because they feel better than on-screen keyboards. I think this is precisely it, actually. Maybe you just haven't realized how important feel actually is for this kind of thing, at least for some people. When I type, either on a (closer-to-)full-size keyboard like on my netbook, or on a smaller mobile keyboard like on my NanoNote or E51, I do it mostly by feel - I slide my fingers across the keyboard, feeling each key as I pass it (or maybe more accurately, the edges between them), and then stop at the right key and apply more pressure, until I feel it has been clicked (there's usually a threshold). All of that is done in my fingers, by touch/feel, which means they can fairly easily learn how to do it more or less by themselves - leaving my mind free for the task at hand (maybe except for the rarely used keys that my fingers haven't learned yet). I wonder how much of this could be added to an on-screen keyboard. Certainly it would never be as good as physical keyboard could be, however... The touchscreen can measure pressure, so we could tell the difference between finger presence and finger activation (strong pressure). As you slide your thumbs we could make a short vibration was you pass the center of each key with a slightly longer vibration for the J and F keys. When you press, a short double-vibration maybe. As the touchscreen can only detect one finger you couldn't have both thumbs down at the same time, which is a definite negative - however we could probably do better than the current crop of soft-keyboards. NeilBrown signature.asc Description: PGP signature ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [Gta04-owner] How to bring forward the community?
On Wed, 29 Feb 2012 22:38:23 + Neil Jerram n...@ossau.homelinux.net wrote: For me, the fun is in trying to put bits of software together to make a useful and interesting phone/gadget, and in understanding (up to a point) how it all works. Me too. It isn't about being better than Android, or free from being spied on or free to choose, though all of that is valuable. It is about having a toy to play with and to learn from - one that I can actually use as well so there are concrete outcomes from my efforts. That last bit is important. I cannot imagine myself buying a nano-note or a Spark because I cannot imagine what I would ever really use them. Without 3G the mobility is almost irrelevant to me, so the small size becomes just an inconvenience. NeilBrown signature.asc Description: PGP signature ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Qtmoko qbuild options
In building qtmoko Makefiles r generated with : qbuild -from-make $(MAKE) like in: install: @echo make: running qbuild image @/home/chomwitt/programming/QT4/radekp-qtmoko-build/sdk/bin/qbuild - from-make $(MAKE) image I searched but cant find documentation of the -from-make options. What it does and where $(MAKE) gets it's value from. Alexandros ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
