Re: GTA04-N900 vel. Neo900
I would say, maemo fremantle is great. if we could manage to make it free, i. e. rewrite it's non-free parts, and make it available on more platforms, like nexus, it'll be great. having free hardware in n900 case it good too. but first of all let's get working free, indeed free maemo. not the proprietary one that could be flashed from nokia images. but the one which is possible to port to different devices. so may be someone does not like n900 and want to use it on n9 or nexus. or whatever phone he has. I like SHR for that reason - there are at least a couple of platforms supported. maemo isn't great, maemo is a purposefully crippled debian with the added benefit to prevent the user from simply using debian armel packages. imo, the way to go would be to port all of maemo to debian thereby getting rid of nokia's imcompatibilities also inside packages (gtk springs to mind). iirc there is/was work going on in that direction. BTW: PLEASE cut quotes to the least needed amount and do not just hit reply! -- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA04-N900 vel. Neo900
On Wed, Aug 28, 2013 at 10:12 AM, arne anka wrote: maemo isn't great If I were using Maemo, I guess the biggest problem for me would be security support, I wonder if there is any right now? imo, the way to go would be to port all of maemo to debian thereby getting Your wording isn't clear here, but I guess you mean join Debian and get all the new packages and patches from Maemo added to Debian? If you want to start doing that, take a look at these pages. I'm sure that the Debian mobile folks will be happy to help guide you with this. http://mentors.debian.net/intro-maintainers https://wiki.debian.org/Mobile iirc there is/was work going on in that direction. At one point the Hildon stuff was in Debian but it got removed because it became clear that it did not have a future upstream since Nokia was dropping it. Now some things like 0x are in Debian but not much else. In particular I don't think that Debian has a version of Linux that can run on the N900 yet, same for GTA02/GTA04. Probably the same for bootloaders etc. There is some info about how different Maemo (all versions) is from Debian in these files: http://dex.alioth.debian.org/census/Maemo/sources.new http://dex.alioth.debian.org/census/Maemo/sources.patches http://dex.alioth.debian.org/census/Maemo/patches/ These are derived from this data: https://wiki.debian.org/Derivatives/Census/Maemo If there is anyone from the Maemo community interested in being the contact point for maintaining this info, I get the impression that Jeremiah is no longer involved in Maemo so it would be great to have a replacement for him. https://wiki.debian.org/Derivatives/Census https://wiki.debian.org/DerivativesFrontDesk -- bye, pabs http://wiki.debian.org/PaulWise ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA04-N900 vel. Neo900
On Wed 28 August 2013 10:33:47 Paul Wise wrote: There is some info about how different Maemo (all versions) is from Debian in these files: http://dex.alioth.debian.org/census/Maemo/sources.new http://dex.alioth.debian.org/census/Maemo/sources.patches http://dex.alioth.debian.org/census/Maemo/patches/ These are derived from this data: https://wiki.debian.org/Derivatives/Census/Maemo Maybe related resp helping: http://wiki.maemo.org/Why_the_closed_packages (NB that's not my POV, usual disclaimers apply), and http://wiki.maemo.org/Fremantle_closed_packages The maemo fremantle porting project is not targeted at creating a fork or new release of maemo OS, but strictly to keep compatibility from N900 to Neo900 so users can ideally restore a backup from their old N900 to their new Neo900 and the device acts exactly like user got used to. Also we don't plan to recompile the repositories with all the applications, and for the much needed core apps like dialer we even can't do that since they are closed. However you're free to run any distro you like on GTA04 and GTA04-N900 aka Neo900, just the maemo community fremantle porting task force will not bother about rebasing on debian or whatever, the goals of that task force are clearly defined. cheers /j -- () ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail /\ www.asciiribbon.org - against proprietary attachments (alas the above page got scrapped due to resignation(!!), so here some supplementary links:) http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil.shtml http://www.nonhtmlmail.org/campaign.html http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil_still.shtml http://www.gerstbach.at/2004/ascii/ (German) signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA04-N900 vel. Neo900
Non-free maemo isn't redistributable. There's must be free maemo version. The existing version won't be possible to flash to gta-04 because it is currently not possible to do that. It's different hardware. Otherwise it won't be necessary to port SHR to n900, that's obvious. So, in order to redistribute GTA-04 version of maemo, there must be free redistributable maemo. Also, I believe many apps like GPS apps which use liblocation won't work, because liblocation is proprietary, and needs to be rewritten with the same interface. Otherwise, full compatibility is just not possible, without replacing those proprietary parts with free parts. I personally have no problem using SHR on n900 like device. But you are the one who considers maemo compatibility to be the key feature. That's why I am writing this. The maemo fremantle porting project is not targeted at creating a fork or new release of maemo OS, but strictly to keep compatibility from N900 to Neo900 so users can ideally restore a backup from their old N900 to their new Neo900 and the device acts exactly like user got used to. Also we don't plan to recompile the repositories with all the applications, and for the much needed core apps like dialer we even can't do that since they are closed. However you're free to run any distro you like on GTA04 and GTA04-N900 aka Neo900, just the maemo community fremantle porting task force will not bother about rebasing on debian or whatever, the goals of that task force are clearly defined. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA04-N900 vel. Neo900
On Wed 28 August 2013 22:21:18 Norayr Chilingarian wrote: [...] Also, I believe many apps like GPS apps which use liblocation won't work, because liblocation is proprietary, and needs to be rewritten with the same interface. GolDeliCo won't ship the Neo900 with maemo pre-installed. We got (or will have) a fremantle porting task force at maemo community that does the porting, provides installable rootfs, and explains how to install and use the closed blobs like liblocation. Nokia donated maemo to community, and we had the permission from Nokia to re-use and even re-distribute the blobs since years already. While rewriting blobs is a long term minor goal of CSSU [1], we won't do a complete rewrite of every closed blob for Neo900 fremantle-port. Actually if we did, we could use any arbitrary hardware ülatform and just recompile the completely liberated fremantle for it. We wouldn't need a GTA04-N900 that's close to the original N900 hw-wise. The idea of GTA04-N900 is to reduce the hw-diffs to an amount that can get handled in kernel/drivers by patching them. You probably know that kernel and kernel driver modules are FOSS in maemo. cheers jOERG -- () ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail /\ www.asciiribbon.org - against proprietary attachments (alas the above page got scrapped due to resignation(!!), so here some supplementary links:) http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil.shtml http://www.nonhtmlmail.org/campaign.html http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil_still.shtml http://www.gerstbach.at/2004/ascii/ (German) signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA04-N900 vel. Neo900
On Thu, Aug 29, 2013 at 1:14 AM, joerg Reisenweber jo...@openmoko.org wrote: While rewriting blobs is a long term minor goal of CSSU [1], we won't do a complete rewrite of every closed blob for Neo900 fremantle-port. Actually if we did, we could use any arbitrary hardware ülatform and just recompile the completely liberated fremantle for it. We wouldn't need a GTA04-N900 that's close to the original N900 hw-wise. The idea of GTA04-N900 is to reduce the hw-diffs to an amount that can get handled in kernel/drivers by patching them. You probably know that kernel and kernel driver modules are FOSS in maemo. Yeah, Neo900 won't be associated with any specific operating system. SHR, QtMoko or anything else that works now on GTA04 should be very easy, if not trivial, to run on Neo900. For this community, Neo900 is just a upgraded GTA04 in different case (well, it might be that Neo900 will cause upgrade of GTA04 itself, so it will be rather something like variant of GTA04 rather than upgrade to it). But there's one reason why we need Fremantle Porting Task Force - demand. Maemo community waited for N900 successor for so long, and with such low demand as we're struggling with those devices, every single willing buyer helps us a lot. Also, this is not Nokia-owned OS anymore - community owns it and effort to ditch closed blobs and switch to free replacements is ongoing, as Joerg pointed out. There are also some initiatives for rebasing Fremantle on top of current Debian and to stay as close to upstream as possible. Those efforts slowly die together with N900. When there are less and less developers, the goal of Freemantle is more and more away. Neo900 is meant to resurrect this community as soon as possible. While joining Freemantle effort into Neo900 project would mean inevitable failure (not enough manpower, people being disappointed due to unstable software etc.), giving Maemo community something pretty much rock-solid as a good base for future work (even with still with some closed parts) might be better idea for our long term goals. It might be that reimplementing some OS part will be easier than adding some compatibility layer in kernel. In such cases, Freemantle will even benefit directly from porting task force work. And still, if you're not interested in Fremantle, just ignore it. There are people who are - they will generate some demand, so we'll be able to get bigger production runs, so everyone will be happier. Nevertheless, Neo900 will stay true to everything that GTA04 represents right now. It will just get new form factor to attract different people. -- Sebastian Krzyszkowiak, dos http://dosowisko.net/ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
