Re: GTA02 for sale on ebay, currently going for $20
Hi, On Sun, Dec 30, 2012 at 12:44 PM, Ian Darwin i...@darwinsys.com wrote: I also have a GTA01 if anybody's interested, write me directly only (if today's date is before the 14th January 2013), otherwise I'll list it on eBay as well. Did someone pick this guy up, or are you still hanging on to it? Thanks, Gerald ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Discussion: what are your dreams for the Openmoko Community
Hi all, On Sat, Apr 28, 2012 at 6:30 AM, Neil Jerram n...@ossau.homelinux.netwrote: My impression is that most people are impressed only by flashy whole systems, or by ideas associated with extreme(-ish) outdoor activities; and not much by - dreams/ideas that haven't been implemented at all yet - incremental developments and experiments in everyday OS or phone usage, outside the whole system context. There was some Open Source project that I was involved with that emphasized doing over brainstorming. It was said that they had warehoused full of neat ideas, all neatly packed, row after row, all wanting some masterful programmer to come and just implement them. It's easy to dream, but it's a bit harder to make that dream reality. The whole system idea has its merits. In my opinion, what is needed is a good approach to the whole system, rather then a perfect whole system. I think it's hard for non-tech people to get excited about something they can't see, and for most experienced tech people they know too well about vapourware. (I myself was patiently waiting just recently for a portable hardware keyboard, whose site now redirects you to a far less able and satisfying clone of another portable keyboard). I see the Group tour struggling and it disheartens me, because I think this is a very worthy project with a good goal. I've spent some time on suggestions and ideas, and it looks like some of them might be gaining traction (yay!). I hope that we see a GTA04 soon. But, longer term, I am starting to think we have to look beyond phones. There is a large market for phones, but like Ipods and E-book readers, I've seen libre projects come and flounder as they don't have the traction or brand recognition to gain sales and market share. Being several dollars cheaper isn't a saving grace either. :S If we had a community based shell, which could be the platform for many open source hardware devices, then I think there could be much more traction. This would be a GTA05 or beyond device, of course, but could be the basis of an MP3 player. Or a GPS. Or an e-book reader. The idea here is that with one of the child devices being successful, it would drive down costs for other devices (at least on the base platform) and allow for further volume discounts. It's just a crazy thought, but maybe a good one. Thanks, G ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [Gta04-owner] Keyboard for GTA04
On Thu, Mar 15, 2012 at 8:29 AM, Martin Jansa martin.ja...@gmail.comwrote: I fully agree on this, I have bought smaller keyboard (with USB cable) for freerunner and I don't use it very much, because as you said it's not really usable e.g. while sitting in train and trying to balance phone + keyboard on your lap. So in trains I'm using n900 only and om-gta02 is sitting at home always connected to desktop (with real keyboard). On this, I respectfully disagree. When I had my Neo in full flight, I often used a Bluetooth keyboard to do longer sessions. For short sessions, I'd use the stylus and the tiny onscreen keyboard. I actually tried a variety of Bluetooth keyboards, and yes, balancing them can be a pain, especially in a moving platform like a train. I found a good way to situate things, with my backpack as a support for the Neo, and thus only having to hang onto the keyboard on a subway train, which has lots of motion. Is it ideal? No. Would having a cradle or some sort of attachment been better? Probably, but it wasn't useless. I wrote e-mails, reports, and diary entries in this way, and I liked it a lot -- as the onscreen keyboard is handy but not functional. Now, if the keyboard was big enough for me to do work, but also portable, that would be fantastic. I saw a smaller Bluetooth keyboard yesterday ... which is about the size of an average phone. The keys were way too small for fingers, so I'm guessing it is aimed at the thumb market, which might be a fit for some but wouldn't help me. Thanks, Gerald ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: How to bring forward the community?
On Thu, Mar 1, 2012 at 8:03 AM, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller h...@goldelico.comwrote: Am 01.03.2012 um 13:28 schrieb Wolfgang Spraul: So what to use? Nothing to use... We should look for what comes after phones and tablets. What's next? Next generation phones and tablets :) As a consumer, it's a bit hard to distinguish between one generation and the next, though. In the past, it was easier -- upgrades from LCD to mono screens, from mono screens to color, from telephone keypads to qwerty. It's harder lately to distinguish, at a quick glance, a retina display from a regular one. It is difficult to develop something totally new. (My standard methapher: each revolution looks like evolution if you have a sufficiently distant point of view). I agree to a certain degree -- from a hardware point of view, at least. But it's pretty clear that the iPhone and iPad were dramatic shifts for smartphones and tablets. The iPhone brought new energy and enthusiasm to the smartphone market. There were a few big players already in this market, but Apple managed to change the direction of the market. The iPad brought tablets, which had languished for years, from being ignored to something that many people knew something about. Now, the hardware they used wasn't the greatest in each case -- it had and has lots of limits. But they had amazing software, and a vision for the customer of their device. They didn't end up inventing a new device, per se, but they did end up re-inventing it. To consumers, they are new devices, because they never saw the clunky windows tablets or older smartphones. For phones and tablets it means they will increase in screen resolution, increase in processing power and networking speed, increase in battery life, increase how easily they can be used. The last one is the most interesting since it includes both hardware and software. One thing is clear: Until a device is commercially successful, it has no chance to survive in the arms race that is commercial phone development. Things change too fast and cost too much to bring out a new rev every X months. Every hardware piece is a compromise, and I've been a close watcher on the sidelines when FIC/OM launched their phones. It's harder with a phone, because since almost everyone has one, everyone will have an idea about one. So, where does that leave us? I think it's simple -- we have to compete, at first, mostly in software. I held out lots of hope for this with the Neo and the Freerunner, but they had basic issues that made them a bit difficult to deal with. I do think there are markets that are out there that are unserved and underserved, where something with good software could flourish. I'm still not convinced your business model is the best approach. While it involves the least risk for all concerned, it feels to me like it's not working well. I gave you some thoughts earlier, and you had good points why your point of view was better. But, your current rallying point is to get to 40% of your goal, and that means that 60% remains. Don't get me wrong, I do hope your device gets built, and I intend to order when budget allows me ... but without some major donation, I'm not sure your timeline is feasible. Thanks, Gerald ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: How to bring forward the community?
Hi, On Thu, Mar 1, 2012 at 5:45 AM, Al Johnson openm...@mazikeen.demon.co.ukwrote: On Wednesday 29 February 2012 11:55:46 Gerald A wrote: I've had a few bluetooth keyboards and a bluetooth mouse paired and function with my Neo. I can't remember what software rev it was, but if it works in the cranky old stuff I was using, I'm sure it should work in a later version. That's not a safe assumption. I know SHR used to work with my Stowaway keyboard, but I also remember updates that broke it. Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that it worked in some particular (later) version. The OP seemed to be wondering if it had worked at all, and indeed it did. Did the updates break it and it never got fixed? I actually think that the Neo image has been left to wither, so I'm not sure I could even help if that is the case -- I don't currently have a FreeRunner. Thanks, Gerald ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: How to bring forward the community?
Hi, On Wed, Feb 29, 2012 at 5:45 AM, Giacomo 'giotti' Mariani giacomomari...@yahoo.it wrote: I own a similar one ( http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Mini-Pocket-Bluetooth-Keyboard-PC-PDA-Phone-/260694344470 ) but I've never been able to use it on my freerunner. I get it paired (and some traffic is visible hcidump on SHR) but it never worked as input device. Did you have any (successful) experience? I've had a few bluetooth keyboards and a bluetooth mouse paired and function with my Neo. I can't remember what software rev it was, but if it works in the cranky old stuff I was using, I'm sure it should work in a later version. The instructions, IIRC, were a bit cryptic to get it going, but it works great. The only complaint I had at the time was that the onscreen keyboard would sometimes insist on hanging around, and that was eating up way too much screen real estate. So, there have been some successes. I might dig my device out of hibernation and try to give it a bit of love -- if I do, be assured I'll look at the BT stuff. Thanks, Gerald ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: How to bring forward the community?
Hello, On Wed, Feb 29, 2012 at 3:27 AM, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller h...@goldelico.com wrote: [Leadup discussion pruned] May I ask why you need a (mechanical) keyboard? Some people like it. While I do like a mechanical keyboard, I find the ones in most mobile devices too small. I can touch type, so now I have to relearn all over to thumb type, which I don't like so much. And, onscreen keyboards suck. :S They are fine for typing a few words, but not e-mails or conversations. One thing that is important in a mobile device is tradeoffs. The big plus of such a device is that it can fit in your pocket. I haven't yet seen a decent keyboard that is foldable (but lots of crap ones). So, in my opinion, the question shouldn't be do you want/need a mechanical keyboard, but rather would adding this bring the subscription rate over 100%? If it would, even if it adds to the cost, it's something to consider. If it's only going to be a feature that will bring subscriptions along 10%, then it should be something considered for a future model. Thanks, Gerald ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [Marketing] Ideas / Plan
On Fri, Dec 30, 2011 at 9:12 AM, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller h...@goldelico.com wrote: The other strategy is the one taken by Apple. They have a very low marketing budget compared to other companies. And the media are still happy to report every small move at no cost... ... which is because Apple is super secretive, so even rumors become big news. While this is a great strategy, it becomes difficult to achieve if you are trying to have everything open. What I think is lost in all of this is the question: Who is the intended customer? I've seen some people talk about linux geeks, etc etc. However, at least for the first rev of the GTA04, it's _hardware_ geeks, and hardcore ones at that, which is the focus. There are lots of unix-heads that would love a phone that is free-er then Android or Apple let you be. But having to buy a phone, then cannibalize it with another kit you buy? It's definitely outside the mainstream. Now, it's not that I don't want this project to succeed. I think it's a great cause -- I was one of the early GTA01 (neo) buyers. For me, I don't have time right now to assemble a Freerunner and a GTA04 to get a working phone with possibilities. I want the completed package, then end result. The neo was shipped with the slogan some assembly required, which gave you the right idea. I thought that it just needed a good software stack to make things great. (I still do). What might work is having people invest, rather then buy something. That's something I could wrap my head around. Make the open phone happen -- Invest now. Don't make it complicated or expensive. $10 in one 'block' kind of thing. Maybe 40 blocks would allow the investor to see a completed phone, if one was to ever be produced. Make the risks clear -- the open phone might never come to market, but if we get 5000 blocks sold, we then have the muscle to negotiate with the big boys. The issue here is what is in it for the little guy, and I'd be a bit fuzzy. 40 blocks gets a phone, but what if I buy 2? Do I get the use of a phone for a week? :P I also don't know the legal side of calling it an investment (rather then a donation or a purchase). But this would be simpler to market, and would have better funding potential then selling the kit. As an aside -- if I have extra cash, I might be willing to buy a kit or two -- but they would either end up as donations to others, or as a dust collector. So it's not that I'm not willing to put money into it. But I also realize that one or two more kits won't make this happen in isolation. Thanks ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [Marketing] Ideas / Plan
Hi Nikolaus, On Fri, Dec 30, 2011 at 2:48 PM, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller h...@goldelico.com wrote: Am 30.12.2011 um 19:22 schrieb Ed Kapitein: On 12/30/2011 06:59 PM, Gerald A wrote: What I think is lost in all of this is the question: Who is the intended customer? Currently: those who own a GTA01 and GTA02 or are willing to give it away. There are approx. 18000 units out there waiting for a potential upgrade to a GTA04 board. And we just have 56 group tour orders within 6 weeks. This is 0,3 %... Well, 18000 is a pittance of the 4.6 billion cell phones, and a fraction of the 500,000 smart phones. Since part of the issue seems to be attracting numbers, I was thinking of ways to attract people who might otherwise might not be interested or be able to. For me, I don't have time right now to assemble a Freerunner and a GTA04 to get a working phone with possibilities. I want the completed package, then end result. The neo was shipped with the slogan This takes approx. 15 minutes. Rarely more. And we have an installation service if you don't want to DIY (I would appreciate if there will come up local resellers or hacking groups in your area). Does this 15 minutes require soldering skills? (I think it does). I personally am not averse to trying to solder -- it's something I want to learn more about. But your average linux geek probably doesn't want to. But they still might be enamored by the prospect of an open phone. Well, to me it looks as if you own a GTA01 that is not used? Maybe you could think about donating it to someone who urgently wants to have a new case for a GTA04? I actually do hack on it once in a while. I had written lots of primitive utilities for it, but never got it working as an actual phone. My thoughts too, set up a kind of micro credit, where people can lent money, lets say 100 euro, and with that money build the phones. Once the phones are made, more developers can develop different aspects of the phone and people will see the GTA04 become more mature. i guess you must be Dutch to come up with a micro credit plan in west-europe ;-) I'm not Dutch, but I like the idea of micro-funding, and I am aware of micro-credit. Well, the problem is not to get a credit to produce the devices in advance. My block system, which is really close to the micro-funding that someone referred to on Kickstarter. But what about this idea: Group Tour orders with partial payment. My idea/kickstarter would allow something like this -- here, let me give you some money, and return 'something' of value in the future. It allows even smallish donations -- in kickstarters case, they give you a keychain. I'd rather allow it to be used against a future product, like a complete phone. I guess you could sell power adapters for ~$10, which if people didn't top up you could give away. What do those of you think, who still hesitate to subscribe to the group tour to upgrade your existing GTA01 or GTA02? PS: Taking too much credit is what the Greek state did do wrong. They are no longer able to pay back neither the interest rates nor the credit without subscribing to another credit. The Group Tour is now advertising a price of 474Euro (approx $600CDN). For this, I'm getting some neat upgrade bits, and I have to pitch in my $300+ Neo. For this price, I could buy two non-open but complete iPads. It's just passing through the holidays and things are tight budget wise here, so I'm still waiting to see. However, I'd pledge $100 for a more complete device later, even though it might never get to completion. As for your Greek example -- almost every country in the world uses credit to finance their Government. And this goes for business too -- in one way or another, most businesses use credit. Politics aside, just as you have to manage how much power your chips consume, just as you manage the number and purpose of your chips, credit has to be used wisely. And wisely used, both chips and credit can yield wonderful results. My idea wasn't pure credit, though -- it was a kind of investment in a future device, rather then the kit of today. My thought process was to move the game forward, the kit is the first step, but the eventual phone is what people are after. If you let people pledge towards what they want, you can fund what you need to get there. I thank you for your ideas and response -- and I hope that we'll get your kit out the door, either with or without my idea. Thanks! ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [SHR] X forwarding: export DISPLAY?
Hi, On Tue, Aug 17, 2010 at 9:40 AM, W. B. Kranendonk wankelwan...@yahoo.comwrote: At best (or worst) the application opens on the Freerunner. Then there are various degrees of stranding on the way to the display of my laptop The output is quite clear: (vala-terminal:2759): Gtk-WARNING **: cannot open display: There is no display set. This is with the default /etc/profile (DISPLAY=:0). I tried setting it manually to point to the freerunner, to no avail. Xauth does not list any displays, while there is a display on my laptop (how handy..) Any suggestion? One thing would be more information in your problem report. I think you are trying to start an X client on your FR and have the output come to your desktop, but that isn't 100% clear. Always describe what you are trying to do, in simple terms (eg: I'd like to start xmines on my FR and have it show up on my Desktop). Next, I'm unclear how you are connecting between your FR and your Desktop. USB cable? Ethernet? Intervening device(s)? Wifi? Mind meld? :) You reference DISPLAY, and even give us a pretty good error message. But without some of the above info, it'll be harder to know what is going on. It would also help if you let us know your approx. skill level. (eg: While I'm a Ubuntu GUI guru, I'm a newbie at getting X working between different machines). Now, I have the older 1973 (pre-FR), and it's been a while since I hacked on it. But if memory serves, I was able to get X working with the right settings. I'll assume a few things -- that you are directly connecting to the FR (no other devices in the middle), and that there is no encryption. In that case, you probably need 2 things. First, is the correct DISPLAY setting. This is usually DISPLAY=hostname:0.0, where hostname = desktop's hostname. Second, you have to either xhost or xauth your FR, something like xhost +freerunnerhostname. Now, I don't know if there is some FR specific issue or distro problem that might be affecting the FR/FR OS, so your mileage may vary. But, feel free to try out the above suggestion and let us know if it works, and if it doesn't, please answer some of the other questions above. Hope this helps, Gerald ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [SHR] X forwarding: export DISPLAY?
Hi, On Tue, Aug 17, 2010 at 10:47 AM, W. B. Kranendonk wankelwan...@yahoo.comwrote: Without actually using different connections as a way of troubleshoot, I have in the meantime tried it over GPRS, Wifi and a direct USB connection (Wifi and USB with two laptops each). Each time it was an encrypted connection (using ssh -Y or ssh -X from the laptop to the phone). Just from my experience, I'd go from the easiest to the hardest to troubleshoot, so: USB - wifi -GPRS. Get the easy one to work, then you can be assured it's not a configuration or other issue with the more difficult ones. I think it turned out (see Dirk's mail) that the default settings in SHR are no X forwarding for sshd. Glad to hear that! :) Hope this helps, It does, in some sort of meta-manner. If you can spare the time, would the updated problem definition provide enough information or should it contain something else? My current problem is solved, but it might help me describe another in the future. I think the biggest helpful piece of info was that you were trying to use ssh x-forwarding. Other things that would assist are version #'s of the various software pieces (although they didn't play a factor in this case). One thing, which you've already done, is to explain what the underlying issue and solution was. This way, people who are looking through the archives can see what worked for you. Thanks, Gerald ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: When is the next and more powerful openmoko releasing
First, let me start by saying I bought a Neo 1973, and would support such a device again -- depending on my finances at the time. :) On Fri, Aug 13, 2010 at 6:41 AM, arne anka openm...@ginguppin.de wrote: And, I never understood why we should assume, that a premier league player would ever care for a small community like ours. not for that small community per se. it would most likely be only a intersection of interests. the manufacturer would be able to - gain a reputation as being open (which might appeal to goverments as well b/c of several reasons) Or not -- see the current spat over Blackberry in India/UAE/etc. Open isn't good for governments looking for tight controls. And while it might be great for their citizens, it's the gov'ts that control devices, unfortunately. - additional promotion by mouth-to-mouth through people being interested in open devices, probably cheaper than paid merchandising for the same group While this is true, this target audience is small. - somewhat broadened developer base Do you really think that the term open will attract more developers? Maybe a handful or two, but developers flock to where the money is. See iPhone. :S - android inspired cost structure: make your hw specs public - enable developers to make the best from it - gain market share since your device offers the most b/c developers can use the hw and are not limited to app-like apis (cf iP[od|hone|ad]) with the success of android, i think a more open approach might appeal to vendors. I'm not up on all the latest android stuff, but from what I've seen, you can make a pretty closed system from those building blocks. What Sean got right was that a phone should have mass appeal. If your girlfriend and her mother want to use it, then that's good. The Neo and the Freerunner are second (third?) class hardware -- there is no doubt. The idea was to build great software, and that would make the appeal to ordinary people strong, despite having hardware that wasn't best of class. The problem was that the great software never got there, and combined with old and problematic hardware, it didn't have a decent chance. It's clear from the GTA03/0X wishlists that there are people out there who want an open phone. Some are even willing to pay good money for one. I am. However, to not end up with a hobbyist phone, some compromises have to be made. Not everyone will be happy, but the journey to a fully open smartphone will be long, expensive and perilous. It's important not to lose sight of the end goal -- which should be a device that is long-term viable. There aren't enough geeks out there to make an open phone successful, unfortunately. And to get the latest bells and whistles, the phone has to be successful, so that there is another phone to follow. So, it's important that the phone be pleasing to the eye, have good software and hardware. So, forget about open short term. Consumers don't care, vendors don't care, operators don't care. If we can build something _appealing_, that hackers find fun and consumers will buy, even if it isn't as open as everyone would like, then that would be awesome. And as such a project gains success, it has more clout and more money. And more clout and more money means more leverage with suppliers, hopefully meaning that things can be more and more open. Let's remember that even the great iPhone maker Apple stumbled with their first phone -- not iPhone 1, but the joint deal with Motorola called Rokr. And even their latest phone has some issues. Now, some on the mailing list might already know this. What I haven't seen, so far, is anyone talk about how many devices would be needed to be a success. Would 100,000 phones do it? 1 Million? More, or less? I'd love to see a truly open smartphone running Linux and BSD, with full access to as much of the hardware as we want. I'm hoping to see this sooner, but we'll have to see how many intermediate steps there are, from mostly closed to fully open. I'm willing to accept Android as a stepping stone, but it won't warm anyone to open or push suppliers in that direction. Gerald ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: When is the next and more powerful openmoko releasing
Heya, On Sat, Aug 14, 2010 at 10:40 AM, arne anka openm...@ginguppin.de wrote: - gain a reputation as being open (which might appeal to goverments as well b/c of several reasons) Or not -- see the current spat over Blackberry in India/UAE/etc. Open isn't good for governments looking for tight controls. And while it might be great for their citizens, it's the gov'ts that control devices, unfortunately. the spat you mentioned is just about rim not being open with it's servers. were they open, gouverments could simply set up their own and force their citizens to use those. what i was refering to, wa sthe fact that with open sw/hw gouvernments would be able to check on their own the integrity and safety of implemantations, not being dependent on the vendors. The issue I was referring to was if hardware and software is open enough, then said governments won't even consider allowing the devices in, since end users could use them to circumvent whatever protections the regulators put on. - additional promotion by mouth-to-mouth through people being interested in open devices, probably cheaper than paid merchandising for the same group While this is true, this target audience is small. sure. but so is, after all, the target audience for apple products. and as said before, openess would have this increased promotion at no additional costs. With 14% of the market and 4th place in the Smartphone market (source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Smartphone_share_2009_full.png), I would say that Apple's target audience is naturally slightly larger. Would apple being open help them? In some ways, sure. However, if we had Apple's war chest, we wouldn't be having discussions, we'd all have devices in our hands. :S - somewhat broadened developer base Do you really think that the term open will attract more developers? Maybe a handful or two, but developers flock to where the money is. See iPhone. :S see below. openess would mean, developers are not restricted by limited apis, but could access the complete bandwith of options available. Lot's of platforms have crap apis. If api's defined success, Unix would have triumphed over Windows long ago. Nice APIs do help, don't get me wrong -- but don't get lost in the clouds. - android inspired cost structure: make your hw specs public - enable developers to make the best from it - gain market share since your device offers the most b/c developers can use the hw and are not limited to app-like apis (cf iP[od|hone|ad]) with the success of android, i think a more open approach might appeal to vendors. I'm not up on all the latest android stuff, but from what I've seen, you can make a pretty closed system from those building blocks. sure you can. but otoh, android being (more or less) opene, it allows vendors to get their devices to market in rather limited time compared to closed, vendor-specific os which need a lot of inhouse investment to develop and get stable. and seeing how an open os, offered at no costs helps saving money, an open hw design easily extensible might appeal as well. assume vendor X creates a design freely available, there would probably be a lot of other vendors re-use that design to decrease their costs -- google did not create android out of altruistic motives, they have their profit and interests at heart, and yet, android is attractive to the market. but after all, i have the sure feeling as if the very same discussion has been had already, years ago and all arguments have been on the table already. True true. If Android is used as a stepping stone, I think that is fine. But Android isnn't the end, it's only something along the path. Gerald ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Selling my Freerunner
Hi guys, I'd like to sell my Freerunner for 150€. It's just 8 Months old, no scratches, with leather case and buzzfix. Interested? Regards, Gerald ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: OM future
Heya, On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 2:58 AM, Radek Polak pson...@seznam.cz wrote: On Tuesday 23 February 2010 10:05:31 Mike Crash wrote: We can create a phone as a next step in the future, but not now. This is a very bad idea. I cant agree. I have N770 which is great PDA. If Neo was just PDA i would never bought it. I agree 100%. I have a few different Palms, which were much cheaper then the Neo. It was the vision that inspired me, and I'm sure will inspire others. Neo is very nice piece of hardware. But the hardware needs some fixes. I think gta-core project does exactly what is needed. If it had better case and design (or you could choose from alternative cases - e.g. white color for girls and women) and if it was cheap, it could be quite successful phone. While I agree that aesthetics are a factor, at this point the community should focus on making something sustainable. If the stuff under the hood is good, we'll attract case mods, and they can put cool cases around our good hardware. I also think gta-core is on the right track. It just needs to keep moving forward, and we'll eventually be successful. Thanks, Gerald. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: OM future
On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 10:14 AM, Iain B. Findleton ifindle...@videotron.ca wrote: Does anybody out there know what the financial envelope for, say, a run of 100 Neos with the accumulated hardware improvements, g3, and double the memory would be? I am thinking a custom application here... I have no idea on financials, but the impression I got was small quantities were incredibly expensive, comparatively. It might be better to shoot for 1000 (or even 10,000), and open it to the community to see if anyone would want to do the work of sales to make it break even. In your laundry list, the 3G (I'm guessing that is what you meant by g3) is probably far and away the most expensive piece, as it involves patents and licences and so forth, if I recall the discussion correctly. If you can do without the 3G, the gta-core project may be able to accommodate you. Hope that helps, Gerald ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: QtMoko webkit related crash in v16 and multiplexing
Hi radek, thanx for the reply. Is there an easy way to substitute Qt 4.6 with 4.5.3 in the current version? Gerald On Mon, 2010-02-01 at 10:37 +0100, Radek Polak wrote: On Sunday 31 January 2010 16:20:55 gerald mwangi wrote: Hi guys, have those of you using QtMoko on FR experienced crashes of Arora and Webbrowser with the entry QWebInspector: Webkit crashing is known problem caused probably by something wrong in QT 4.6 I will do new release soon based on older but more stable QT 4.5.3 which should work much better with webkit. QSettings couldn't read configuration setting [resourceTrackingEnabled] in the log? How can I resolve this? Strange, maybe this is not related to webkit. Searching source code would be needed to check what it means. Secondly, multiplexing still doesn't work after enabling it in Modem.conf in v16. You can check if it is really enabled. If you enable logging for modem stuff it should tell you if it is really enabled during modem initialization. But even when enabled multiplexing was working only half way for me. IIRC i could receive call during GPRS session but i couldnt make one. But for next release multiplexing will be enabled by default, because if it's disabled it causes strange problems for me (not showing some contacts on SIM). Thanks for your replies in advance, Gerald Thanks for writing too. Btw next release should be quite soon - i just need to find a few free hours to do it. I have also workaround that could help with missed SMS problems. Regards Radek ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Replacement battery for GTA01/Neo
Hi, On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 3:31 PM, RANJAN infi...@gmail.com wrote: I'm wondering if there are any approved replacement batteries, or if Openmoko sells the originals. BL-C5A (name might be jumbled up but a Nokia battery did work for me.) I'm guessing then that the resellers don't sell/stock the FIC replacements? Would a battery from a Freerunner/GTA02 work in my neo? I do know the Nokia batteries work, but I was hoping for the higher capacity Neo ones. And they look cooler. :P Thanks, Gerald. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Replacement battery for GTA01/Neo
Hi, Looking at my Neo this morning, I noticed that it looked like the case wasn't put back on straight. I removed the back to find the battery is slightly bulging. I'm assuming this isn't a good thing. The device was running fine, but as a precaution I powered down and pulled out the battery. I'm wondering if there are any approved replacement batteries, or if Openmoko sells the originals. From what I understand, the GTA02 (freerunner) batteries are different. Would they work? Where would I buy a GTA01/02 battery? Thanks, Gerald ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [OM2009] airplane mode
Hi, On Fri, Jun 19, 2009 at 4:54 PM, Warren Baird wjba...@alumni.uwaterloo.cawrote: mdbus -s org.freesmartphone.ogsmd /org/freesmartphone/GSM/Device org.freesmartphone.GSM.Device.SetAntennaPower False I'm cleaning things up at work prior to a vacation, so I don't have time to add it to the wiki now - but if no one has done it in the next day or two, I'll add it there somewhere... Stub added: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Airplane_Mode I'm not sure which distro/rev this would work for, and this type of info should be added. Thanks, Gerald ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: YOUR action is needed to get the Community Updates up running again
On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 6:13 PM, Nicola Mfb nicola@gmail.com wrote: The community transition should be announced with an help call for every kind of task, testing, writing docs, wiki, administering servers, developing, general coordination, transition news and so on. Maybe we could start a TODO list somewhere on the Wiki? I'm sure lots of people could help, but they need a clue about what needs to be done. I'd even post a list to the wiki, if I knew what needed to be done. Gerald. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Dash bought by RIM
Here's a bit of news from a one-time collaborator of Openmoko: http://www.itworldcanada.com/a/Daily-News/647d02c5-15ce-4d87-9654-0b9a026771a9.html Dash bought by RIM I'm not sure if there is any communication between OM and Dash anymore, so can't really say if there is any impact to OM from this. I thought some community members might be interested though. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Slashdotted
the remote boat needs, but at least controlling servos. BTW, I had developed a train station clock driven by a Microchip PIC 16F84, a stepup DC/DC converter and a simple H bridge to drive the 'motor' of the clock. Good ideas must be publisched open sourced (I think about that now :-) The project died, because it stuck at soldered wirewrap level board prototype, it was not communicated, therefore no interest came back thus no printed circuits were developed at a next development step. It would have a chance to grow and improve, when it were open sourced and other hobbyists get knowledge about it - the comunity. The project is more than 10 years ago :-( My current hobby is software development and I follow a movement that other argue to be unusable, or only at university level, (so it will be called 'arsed around'), but I don't agree to them. It's great stuff about code generation, MDA / MDSD and the like. It's a movement to a new methology how to develop software. It's not always understood by a mortal developer. They must see that new methologies work. Even a stupid idea like distributed hardware engineering may be a way to earn money. Services like board layout could be payd for. So it will propably not always at a hobby level. Another area is distributed music making - as reported at one of our local TV broadcaster. Things seem not realizeable but must thought twice. Link: http://www.3sat.de/neues/sendungen/magazin/132217/index.html That isn't really related to this thread, but points out, that things are possible. Developing on a board design could also done that way. We have Skype, could share the project files and even could keep versions of design ideas in the CVS or SVN repository. There is only the question if an open source board design could easily converted in a format that - for sample is required for electromagnetic compatibility tests (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnetic_compatibility) Renting equipment or swapping parts would save money, who better could spend in a good layout. Using colaboration like the music sample could also save money. An electromagnetic compatibility specialized firm could inspect a layout, before it will go to a real hardware test. (If the format conversion from open source SW to expensive ECAD SW is possible) Many ideas when sitting at home :-) I've been to installathons and other software type events, where the idea is to fiddle around with stuff. Would it make sense to do something like this in the community? A hack-a-moko day, whether it was sponsored by OM or not? While it might not lead to a design that translates 100% into something mass-produceable, could that inspire something that is, or it it too far away? (I apologize for the quoting -- something seems a bit off there) Gerald ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: device only powers up on its own
Hi Dimitri, On Sat, Jul 26, 2008 at 12:02 PM, Dimitri [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: But, whenever I attempt to power it up, it refuses. Nothing happens. It won't power on. But, the instant I plug it in, via USB, it powers up on its own (without my pressing its power button.) Unless there's a magic trick to turning on the phone, it's DOA as far as I'm concerned. (I can't be expected to carry around a laptop, or a portable AC power generator, to turn on the phone.) I'm not sure about the Freerunner, but on the 1973 you have to hold the power button for a few seconds until it vibrates to power it on. I've seen the USB connection powerup too, but that isn't the normal method needed for powering on. Hope that helps, Gerald ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Freerunner on a Mac ...
On Fri, May 16, 2008 at 6:16 AM, Torfinn Ingolfsen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Fri, May 16, 2008 at 8:49 AM, Wilkinson, Alex [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 0n Fri, May 16, 2008 at 08:39:48AM +0200, Federico Lorenzi wrote: Should work, FreeBSD supports cdce, which is a USB ethernet gadget. What is cdce ? cdce[1] is the ethernet -over-usb driver in FreeBSD. To test it, you can do 'kldload if_cdce', then see the man page. Last time I tested it, it worked without problems. I've never used it for flashing images, but communications with the neo works perfectly through cdce on FreeBSD. (It does see the neo advertising a device at boot time too, I've just never tried it). , Gerald. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Freerunner on a Mac ...
On Fri, May 16, 2008 at 3:51 AM, Christ van Willegen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Fri, May 16, 2008 at 9:15 AM, Rod Whitby [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My point was that the dfu-util program used to flash the Openmoko device is a very portable utility, and can be compiled on just about any reasonable OS, including OS-X. In fact, it's already been done: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/User:SNMoore Great, I hadn't seen this! Perhaps Michael should add it to his 'Howto start using the Neo'? Wow, you learn something new everyday. :) I'll have to check out doing it that way. I've been using the instructions here: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/MacOS_X#Flashing_to_your_device up until I got a Debian install to work. It's GUI and I believe it's now Universal (was Intel only for a time). Thanks, Gerald ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: what process for EASILY updating non-developer Freerunners
On 5/15/08, Lasse Poulsen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, 15 May 2008 09:22:51 -0700 Ron K. Jeffries [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is it too much to hope that we'll have access to something similar to how Ubuntu installations are upgraded and updated with fixes? There is a package manager like there is on every other major distribution. In this case it's ipkg, a light version of the dpkg (debian package). It can be used in (almost) the same way and is very simple to work with! I'm a command line tool guy. I get ipkg (and opkg), and I like them. That said, this approach sucks for average users. There may be a GUI to do this, but remember that cellphones should be friendlier then computers in this regard. Like every other aspect of software in the middle of development there might occur errors while updating! But don't worry, I bet there will be a lot of help for you and others alike recovering if anything fails! I think it's good to keep perspective here. No one should expect perfection, or even something very good in the software sense right now. But we should have some goals and things we should be looking towards. With that in mind, I think we want to consider what a real end user would prefer to do, and work towards that. In the meantime, we can all use CLI tools. My 2cents. Gerald ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Group Sales in Canada
A small group of us in Canada have started a Group Sales effort: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GroupSales#Canada So far, everyone is in the GTA (Ontario), but paying to ship the smaller packages within Canada should be much less expensive. Sign up on the wiki or drop me a note if you are interested in joining our group. Thanks, Gerald ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Neo Freerunner Quickstart Guide
On Sat, Apr 19, 2008 at 5:02 AM, Michael Shiloh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That's because most phones don't have such complicated SIM card holders. Actually, here's my theory: Anyone who has NEVER had a GTA01 will figure out the SIM card holder. Anyone who has had a GTA01 will take awhile to get used to the fact that the card holder locks and unlocks in the opposite direction compared to GTA01. Ouch. Ok, I think this point might warrant a warning sticker or some such warning, because the holder is quite sensitive and small, and it would be easy to force it the wrong way, especially since the GTA01 goes in that other way. That said, I tend to carefully try both directions for the 01, so I might not have any problems with the 02. Chapter 7 should describe how to find out the current image versions and how to use dfu_util (or where to read about it). It should also tell what happens to the user data when the root filesystem is updated. Yikes! That's a very important point. Thanks! It should also make reference to versions for different operating systems, or at least a wiki page with links to some of the various tools. Chapter 8 should describe how to build the toolchain yourself (how is the prebuilt one made?) in case you're not exactly on Intel/Linux. True, but I'm trying to keep it simple. Once I document everything else, perhaps I'll come back and tackle this. I'd suggest this is a separate piece of documentation. Maybe an appendix, or simply separated by one blank page but with it's own table of contents. Quickstarting the phone should be one process, and we shouldn't assume hackers need a toolchain to start hacking. (I can write shell scripts w/o a toolchain, etc). I think it's a good idea to have this piece here, but I have a feeling that as a toy, people will get to the ready to use and then play with it a while, in any case. Thanks, Gerald. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Freerunner will be GTA02v5 or GTA02v6? (was: Fwd: Future Button and LED software spec)
On Fri, Apr 18, 2008 at 11:45 AM, Marco Trevisan (Treviño) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So why shipping semi-bugged hardware if there's a fixed version ready? Any software or hardware has annoyances or bugs, or missing features. The question is are they show stoppers, or just mere annoyances? If turning off the blinkenlights can solve this issue, is it worthwhile to hold production another 2 months to get LEDs that consume a bit less power? It's a tough call, and we have to appreciate this process being open -- otherwise we wouldn't even know there is an issue. However, power sipping LEDs aren't a showstopper in most people's books. Personally, I'm much more anxious to play with the WLAN stuff, and would be cool with no LEDs at all. My 2cents. Gerald. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Openmoko strives for openness (smedia glamo)
On Wed, Apr 2, 2008 at 5:33 AM, Andy Green [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Somebody in the thread at some point said: | On Wednesday 02 April 2008 11:07:47 Andy Green wrote: | There's a 6) I thought about, AFAIK it could theoretically anyway be | possible we can write detailed header files for an open driver which | contain register and bitfield enums and comments for the 3D unit. If we | did write our own we would certainly have to do this anyway and | presumably it is okay by whatever agreement exists (but surprises are | the norm here). | | How about the 7) developer to become a new OM employee and thus gets access | (unpaid intern or something like that, if nothing else) to the OM license? I think we have to be seen to take care about the spirit of the agreement as well as the letter or the consequences could be negative all around. But the agreement must allow for transcription of the information into a FOSS driver because otherwise there'd be no point. So this would be a way through it rather than a way around it. No one has suggested it yet, but could this be a Summer of Code project? Harald's note seemed to indicate that the product of such an effort would be an open-source driver, and documentation to assist in writing of other drivers. I'm not sure if this would be close enough to the spirit, though. Could this be a way through it too? Gerald ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Coolest thing at ETech (other than Openmoko :-) ): Fireeagle
Hi Michael, If you have a minute, I wouldn't mind checking this out. Thanks, Gerald. On 3/5/08, Michael Shiloh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Take a look at this and think about what we can do on Openmoko with this: www.fireeagle.com Still in beta. Drop me a line if you want an invitation. Michael ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA02 preorder please?
On Jan 21, 2008 11:34 AM, Breakable [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I understand GTA00 and GTA01 will not ever be a usable platform due to hardware issues. I'm not sure this is true for the GTA01 -- but it remains to be seen. I would like to propose asking the openmoko.com to add a preorder form for stable developer hardware platform. Something what they would consider a release candidate. This would allow for developers just like me to finally use their credit cards, and reduce the amount of pooling required. This probably won't happen. Some of the official Openmoko people can chime in here, but I think that their current system/CC provider doesn't allow them to accept orders on products that aren't shipping. For the GTA01, they opened the ordering process as soon as they could. I would guess this will be the same for the GTA02. We're all eager to get our hands on one of these, but right now we'll have to be patient. Thanks, Gerald ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Trolltech drops greenphone for OpenMoko (Neo)
Link to story: http://news.zdnet.com/2100-1035_22-6214641.html I'm actually sad to hear this. While it's great to have a number of options running on the Neo, it would be nice to have OpenMoko run on a variety of devices, but the greenphone won't be in the running. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
More press -- Wired refs open phones for weary iPhone hackers
It's pretty fluffy, but it has nice pictures: http://www.wired.com/gadgets/wireless/multimedia/2007/10/gallery_linux_phones Nice to see that some are talking about why the iPhone isn't the greatest thing since sliced bread, at least. Maybe someone will even say that applications matter for a phone that's not just a phone. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
GUI idea
I have an idea I'd like to mock up with someone who has some GUI coding know how. I could do a quick demo in flash, but I'm thinking it would probably be as quick to mock up for the actual Neo by someone who knows their way around. I figure less then an hours work, all told. It's something kind of unique, and not difficult code wise, and might help the usability. Might be better hashed out off list, and then have a demo for the list. Any takers? Gerald. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: OK, the forum is coming..
On 7/24/07, Richard Reichenbacher [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If they were interested in developing, they would follow the wiki as it is the only source for finding development specs, cvs links, walkthroughs, etc. Flaw in your logic: One has to post to the wiki to follow it. I'm very sure you can follow a wiki and never post to it. So, your stats conclusions are on shaky ground. That's a pretty large amount of people that are going to want help building openmoko and flashing it to the phone. I think a forum is a good idea for now if anytime. If we can show that there is a great support base available for the phone this early on we can draw a much larger fan base later on. I think the idea is to get info out, in an easy to maintain way to as many people as possible. I despise forums. Some products require you to use them, so I have to. There are others that feel this same way. Some despise mailing lists. C'est la vie. I think the best thing would be to work on a way in which both groups could be happy. A gateway between the mailing list and a forum might be the best of both worlds. Then again, maybe not. But it's something that we should be talking about, rather then having a religious debate about forum vs. list. Comments? Gerald. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
