Create personal Maps for tangogps or similar
Dear Openmoko Community, I want to create some personal maps for viewing on the freerunner GPS application (like tangogps). All available maps (open streetmap and google maps etc.) does not meet my demands, so I want to create one myself. The map I need shows the depth of a lake. (In Germany it's called a Tiefenkarte - depth map) An example can be found here: http://www.mueritz-fisch.de/downloads/Tiefenkarten/Müritz.pdf or http://www.mueritz-fisch.de/downloads/Tiefenkarten/Feisnecksee.pdf After looking at the map cache of tangogps, I assume that I need to create a picture of the map and then split this pictures into smaller ones (.png) and put them into numbered directories in connection with the GPS coordinates. I need to do this for different zoom levels. I'm very happy about _every_ hint how I can get this done most easily. I guess that doing all that manual it would need a very long time. Thank you very much. Kev ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Create personal Maps for tangogps or similar
Thanks a lot for your answers! I'm a contributor of OstreetM already (it's really easy with tangogps), but I've never heared of OseaM, thanks for pointing this out to me. The problem is, that I've bought this commercial analog maps for personal use. I've scanned them in and merged it into a big .png file. So there are some copyright issues preventing me from contributing the data to OSM. If I have the possibility to connect my sonar to my openmoko and log the depth with the gps coordinates I would contribute the collected data to OSM. But at the moment I need the map for navigating on the water. With the map on the openmoko this would be a lot more easier and it would be really great to mark points with the openmoko. So I need an easy way to achieve two things: a.) calibrate my picture to the gps coordinates. Maybe with an OSM overlay (50% transparency). b.) split the calibrated file into fitting parts for tangogps and put them into the right directory. especially for point b.) I need to know more about the directory structure of tangogps (tiles cache). I'm still searching for this. Point a) can be done manually with a compiz transparent window over google maps and then looking which coordinate the left upper and the right lower corner have. But I also would be happy about new/other approaches :). Kev 2010/8/5 Xavier Cremaschi omega.xav...@gmail.com: Le 05/08/2010 11:44, David Garabana Barro a écrit : Why not contributing to OSM? That's the sense of a free map... He may want to control the render of the map. I think contributing to OSM then developping your own rendering tool is not that easy. But yes you could add your data to OSM, it's never a bad thing to do ;) ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Create personal Maps for tangogps or similar
I can help you with the splitting part. A few weeks ago I wrote a script to render OSM data to svg, convert it to png and split the files into directories. It renders a specific subset of OSM data, but it can be used to split PNG images. You would probably be interested in the most basic version which contains only files I made or moified [1], but if you want to see the whole thing running, check out the version with external tools in it [2]. There's a small readme in it, but I'll be happy to help if it's not enough. Cheers, rhn [1] http://porcupinefactory.org/data/tilerender.tar.gz [2] http://porcupinefactory.org/data/osma+tile-render.tar.gz That's really great! I'm really overwhelmed that this exist already, so I will have a look into this now :). Thank you! How can I achieve the gps calibration of my file with your script? ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Create personal Maps for tangogps or similar
Well, you can't :) I read your other post. To make it all work, you need to: a) rectify your image - there are services like http://labs.metacarta.com/rectifier/ , but be careful, they publish your maps by default. They are open source, but difficult to set up. This will calibrate the scanned map with OSM overlay. b) find the coordinates of the edges - should not be very hard c) modify my set of scripts to accept the rectified image and edges' coordinates - I'll have to take a look at it if you need help here d) run the script Ok I make progress. What I meant with gps calibration is Image Rectification[1] as you described but I didn't know about this before :). Shouldn't be the geo and coordinate information inside the GeoTiff Image after rectification? So step b) may be skipped? Your script require an osm file or zoom-12, so I just need a way to convert a geotiff file to osm, right? [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image_rectification#Geographic_information_system [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GeoTIFF ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
how do i turn the phone off?
I updated to 2008.12 and do not know how to turn the phone off. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Neo 1973 For Sale
Hey guys. I'm selling a Neo1973 on eBay and thought some people here might be interested in snagging it up. The listing can be found at http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=270347654193 It says US, Canada and Europe but I'm actually willing to ship anywhere in the world. Please see the listing for more info and if there are any questions feel free to ask either here or on eBay. Thanks. -Kevin Dean ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Neo 1973 For Sale
That's a great question. :P I'll check when I get home tonight and post here. On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 3:30 PM, Angus Ainslie nyt...@openmoko.org wrote: Which board revision is it ? Angus ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Neo 1973 For Sale
Thanks for the patience. :) This is a GTA01Bv4. It was a unit sold during the 1973's public sale. On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 3:37 PM, Kevin Dean ke...@foreverdean.info wrote: That's a great question. :P I'll check when I get home tonight and post here. On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 3:30 PM, Angus Ainslie nyt...@openmoko.org wrote: Which board revision is it ? Angus ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: opkg update is failing signature verification
Can someone make an ipk opkg compiled with ./configure --disable-gpg because I am not sure how to? On Fri, Dec 26, 2008 at 9:46 AM, Tick Chen t...@openmoko.org wrote: Hi Arne, Thanks for your advice, adding to my todo list. Cheers, Tick On Fri, Dec 26, 2008 at 11:52:27AM +0100, arne anka wrote: I think setting up a flag when configuring opkg may help. ./configure --disable-gpg wouldn't implementing a config file or cmd line option be the better way? something like checksig=no ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFJVO5GPNWONWpVfqoRAp7hAJ9tn3A73rwH7UCP93gQrWgFMc/UFgCfbQ6j 6SK1DOxN+JJ7Y6soVcWnA+U= =kPyN -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
opkg update is failing signature verification
opkg update is failing signature verification. is there a way to disable signature verification? ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: trouble connecting via wifi
I still can not get a response after manually configuring to ARP table on my access point. On Fri, Oct 17, 2008 at 6:23 PM, Kevin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: No encryption. Using wireshark it appears that my accese point is reciving the ping requests but can not respond to them because the phone is not replying to ARP requests. On Fri, Oct 17, 2008 at 5:34 PM, Neil Jerram [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 2008/10/17 Kevin [EMAIL PROTECTED]: It gives the correct routing but the problem is i am not getting responses back when i try to ping the gateway. What about encryption, then? Does your network use WEP or WPA? Neil ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
trouble connecting via wifi
What step am I missing? It does detect my access point because i can see it's mac address in iwconfig but all packets are dropped when I try to use ping my access point. iwconfig eth0 mode managed channel 1 iwconfig eth0 essid madwifi ifconfig eth0 10.0.0.1 netmask 255.0.0.0 ifconfig eth0 up ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: trouble connecting via wifi
It gives the correct routing but the problem is i am not getting responses back when i try to ping the gateway. On Fri, Oct 17, 2008 at 2:41 PM, Neil Jerram [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 2008/10/17 Kevin [EMAIL PROTECTED]: What step am I missing? It does detect my access point because i can see it's mac address in iwconfig but all packets are dropped when I try to use ping my access point. iwconfig eth0 mode managed channel 1 iwconfig eth0 essid madwifi ifconfig eth0 10.0.0.1 netmask 255.0.0.0 ifconfig eth0 up Adding a route? What does netstat -rn say? Neil ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [FSO] How to develop with Qt
In this wiki article: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Developing_with_C++_and_Qt The link to the Qtopia SDK I notice says ficgta01...Does this mean its specific to the 1973. Does it work for Qtopia on the Freerunner? Thanks, -Kevin On Mon, Sep 29, 2008 at 11:28 AM, Michael Tansella [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I created an unlinked wiki page at , this is only an initial attempt, please fix, rename, change, restructure, and correct my bad english :) Nicola Thank you very much Greets Michael ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
distribution choice
Hi all, My company is planning to roll out a suite of applications to be ran on the openmoko/freerunner platform. I'm researching which distribution would be best for our needs. We are not so concerned with the current state of available applications, since we will be writing out own. So here are a few questions that hopefully you guys can field: We are debating between Om 2007.2 and Om 2008.8. Which release is more stable? 2007.2 or 2008.8, in regards to the Freerunner. Is Java a viable choice to implement a suite of applications on this hardware? What is the state of the JVM? Are there restrictions, e.g. accessing the Accelerometer or other hardware? If we do not target Java, what API/framework should we target? I suspect for 2008.8 and future development, it would be Qt? Thanks! -Kevin Dixon ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Using openmoko as a wireless gateway
Would the following setup work: A Openmoko freerunner is set to connect to my laptop that is using a master mode capable wireless card and the default gateways is set to the ip of the openmoko freerunner. Does the wifi card support ad-hoc connections? ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: problem accessing SD Card SanDisk SDSDQ-8192-E11M
On Mon, Sep 8, 2008 at 11:03 AM, Kevin Squire [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, I have problems accessing my 8Go SD Card snip snip For my disk, my thoughts are that the first sector is bad. I'll try to confirm this later today (don't have anything else available that Confirmed, bad disk--can't read it with anything else (and in fact, trying to read it on my Ubuntu system puts sd_mod into a state where it won't read another disk). Kevin ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: OpenMoko ATT plans (Semi OT)
I am currently using (for the past 3 weeks) the ATT GoPhone Pick Your Plan. My experience: I was using an old T-Mobile phone with T-Mobile Pre-Paid service and incorrectly assumed that I could not use the T-Mobile SIM card with the Freerunner... I went to Att's web site, signed up for a $39.99/month plan which included 300 anytime minutes and 500 night and weekend minutes, unlimited M2M, nationwide long distance, and rollover balance. I ordered a pretty sweet Quad-band Pantech C120 phone for $24.99 ($100 online instant rebate or something) so I could have a backup phone. ATT's gophone plans seem pretty reasonable - you can upgrade/downgrade/cancel your plan at any point (obviously taking effect the next monthly cycle). http://www.wireless.att.com/cell-phone-service/go-phones/index.jsp I got the freerunner and the ATT phone and the ATT sim card all on the same day. The ATT SIM worked perfectly with both phones. The T-Mobile SIM worked with the freerunner except I couldn't see all my contacts. After searching many hours on google for a way to unlock the pantech phone, I just called ATT and asked them for it - and they gave it to me, no questions asked. I could then pop the T-mobile SIM into the pantech, copy my contacts to the phone and then back to the SIM, and then I could see all my contacts on the freerunner. So now I have a T-Mobile SIM and an ATT SIM, both work with both phones. I can make phone calls no problem, can text no problem. By no problem I mean the phone calls go through - not that the quality is any good. People on the other end complain of echoing or wierd high-pitched noises. Plus the default volume is much too low. But hopefully these issues will be resolved in time. I have not even attempted to get GPS working BTW. On Wed, 2008-08-27 at 19:15 -0700, Rodney Myers wrote: I'm anxiously waiting for my phone (Thanks NYC), and for my contract with verizon to finally expire next month. When I switch to ATT, only GSM provider that has decent coverage in my area, I was wondering what plans this groups uses, to get the most out of the phone? Basic phone service, SMS/text messages, and I like the GPS feature. Thanks ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: OpenMoko ATT plans (Semi OT)
I am currently using (for the past 3 weeks) the ATT GoPhone Pick Your Plan. My experience: I was using an old T-Mobile phone with T-Mobile Pre-Paid service and incorrectly assumed that I could not use the T-Mobile SIM card with the Freerunner... I went to Att's web site, signed up for a $39.99/month plan which included 300 anytime minutes and 500 night and weekend minutes, unlimited M2M, nationwide long distance, and rollover balance. I ordered a pretty sweet Quad-band Pantech C120 phone for $24.99 ($100 online instant rebate or something) so I could have a backup phone. ATT's gophone plans seem pretty reasonable - you can upgrade/downgrade/cancel your plan at any point (obviously taking effect the next monthly cycle). http://www.wireless.att.com/cell-phone-service/go-phones/index.jsp I got the freerunner and the ATT phone and the ATT sim card all on the same day. The ATT SIM worked perfectly with both phones. The T-Mobile SIM worked with the freerunner except I couldn't see all my contacts. After searching many hours on google for a way to unlock the pantech phone, I just called ATT and asked them for it - and they gave it to me, no questions asked. I could then pop the T-mobile SIM into the pantech, copy my contacts to the phone and then back to the SIM, and then I could see all my contacts on the freerunner. So now I have a T-Mobile SIM and an ATT SIM, both work with both phones. I can make phone calls no problem, can text no problem. By no problem I mean the phone calls go through - not that the quality is any good. People on the other end complain of echoing or wierd high-pitched noises. Plus the default volume is much too low. But hopefully these issues will be resolved in time. I have not even attempted to get GPS working BTW. On Wed, 2008-08-27 at 19:15 -0700, Rodney Myers wrote: I'm anxiously waiting for my phone (Thanks NYC), and for my contract with verizon to finally expire next month. When I switch to ATT, only GSM provider that has decent coverage in my area, I was wondering what plans this groups uses, to get the most out of the phone? Basic phone service, SMS/text messages, and I like the GPS feature. Thanks ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Testing and Unstable feeds for the FSO distribution are now available
Kevin Fenzi wrote: I installed the unstable image, and tried to use either the unstable or testing feeds here, and I get: a bunch of: Assuming locally installed package is up to date. then a bunch of: * Packages were found, but none compatible with the architectures configured Can't seem to install or update anything. ;( Please post the contents of your /etc/opkg/*.conf files. I know that both sets of feeds work, cause people have reported success with both in the IRC channel (and I personally use the fso-testing feed exclusively). Sigh. As you might have suspected, it was the result of PEBKAC. ;) I was missing the arch.conf file. Adding that in gets it working nicely. ;) -- Rod kevin signature.asc Description: PGP signature ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Official update feeds testing on downloads.openmoko.org
Hi, I've just noticed on a new testing repository on downloads.openmoko.org [1]. Are that the official update feeds for ASU or another distribution? Is the merge of the two branches finished? Should I use this repo instead of the zecke repo now? Thanks for answers. Kev [1] http://downloads.openmoko.org/repository/testing/ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Testing and Unstable feeds for the FSO distribution are now available
Greetings. Just read your announcement about the testing and unnstable FSO feeds. Awesome work. ;) A few quick questions tho: 1. How can we request/test new packages be added to the task-openmoko-feed ? (In particular I would love to see FBRreader, irssi, twinkle and a few others. ;) Also, is there an easy way to list whats in that feed now? 2. The Packages* files seem to all be 0 length there... ie, look in: http://shr.bearstech.com/fso-unstable/ipk/ 3. Are the feed files in each of the branches setup to point to those repos for updates? Ie, if I install the unstable image, will updates pull from unstable? Thanks for the great work. kevin signature.asc Description: PGP signature ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Testing and Unstable feeds for the FSO distribution are now available
Kevin Fenzi (by way of Kevin Fenzi kevin at scrye.com) wrote: Just read your announcement about the testing and unnstable FSO feeds. Awesome work. ;) A few quick questions tho: 1. How can we request/test new packages be added to the task-openmoko-feed ? (In particular I would love to see FBRreader, irssi, twinkle and a few others. ;) Also, is there an easy way to list whats in that feed now? Anyone with commit access to the OpenEmbedded repository can add to the feed by modifying the task-openmoko-feed.bb file. You can see it's contents at: http://git.openembedded.net/?p=org.openembedded.dev.git;a=blob;f=packages/tasks/task-openmoko-feed.bb;h=207d48d9048d811a403732e56c0ba743be892adb;hb=HEAD ok. Cool. 2. The Packages* files seem to all be 0 length there... ie, look in: http://shr.bearstech.com/fso-unstable/ipk/ Packages* files at the top level are not used. Look in the subdirectories. Ah, makes sense. 3. Are the feed files in each of the branches setup to point to those repos for updates? Ie, if I install the unstable image, will updates pull from unstable? At the moment, no. Mickey would need to modify the standard image feeds config to do that. ok. I installed the unstable image, and tried to use either the unstable or testing feeds here, and I get: a bunch of: Assuming locally installed package is up to date. then a bunch of: * Packages were found, but none compatible with the architectures configured Can't seem to install or update anything. ;( -- Rod kevin signature.asc Description: PGP signature ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Temporary testing and development feeds for ASU
Am Samstag, den 16.08.2008, 14:14 +0200 schrieb Torfinn Ingolfsen: Hello, On Fri, Aug 15, 2008 at 1:38 PM, Kevin Zuber [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: To update to testing simple create a new file /etc/opkg/updates.conf and put into it http://pastebin.com/f1cffba0b . OK, I just added updates.conf to /etc/opkg. I did not remove any other files in there. Is this the right way to do it? Yes, that's the right way because opkg uses always the newest version of a package if there are more than one available. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: InvibleShield at ZAGG : swindling ?!?
Am Dienstag, den 12.08.2008, 16:13 +0200 schrieb Christ van Willegen: On Tue, Aug 12, 2008 at 3:29 PM, Stroller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: An update: my order arrived yesterday. It looks like it is the original shipment from 7/7/8 and it arrived on 11/8/8 (European date ordering). This is on the 7-11 business-day shipping, so only 20 or so overdue. I'm sure the delay was not Zagg's fault, but they'd be doing themselves a favour if they gave more conservative estimates on their website. On July 8th, I've received confirmation that 2 shipments were on their way. The first I got in about a week, the second hasn't arrived yet. The first contained 3 shields, the second contained the FR shield. Since you mentioned that it arrived yesterday, I'm getting my hopes up to get it one of these days... Christ van Willegen I got my order Confirmation on 5th Aug and the Shipping Confirmation on 7th Aug. It arrived today on 12t Aug here in germany, so very fast. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Problem with usb cable: device descriptor read/64, error -110
hm ok, With today's opkg update opkg upgrade the usb networking is now working again :). Am Dienstag, den 05.08.2008, 11:47 +0200 schrieb Kevin Zuber: Hi Andy, thanks for your quick answer! Ok, that's the reason for the problem but it doesn't fix it completely. After flashing uboot (flashing works quite well so no problem with the cable) there was no more error message but also no success message. If I connect now my Freerunner to the usb port (when the Freerunner is powered up) there isn't any kind of message in dmesg on the host and there is also no new networking interface (usb0). So usb networking is still not working. Do I have to wait for an fix? Kev Am Montag, den 04.08.2008, 19:28 +0100 schrieb Andy Green: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Somebody in the thread at some point said: | So it should be the cable (hardware defect?) oder the neo update (using | 2007.2 with latest updates). | Did I miss something, any other ideas? Has someone this problems, too? | | It also seems, that the neo isn't charging anymore when it is connected | to the cable. The usb power supply is still working fine and can charge | the neo. | | Thanks a lot for your answer! This sounds exactly like the fault of the bad U-Boot we put out for a while. Boot into your NOR U-Boot by holding AUX while powering up, then dfu over today's U-Boot image. After that this should be no longer a problem. - -Andy -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkiXSj8ACgkQOjLpvpq7dMoTJwCePIo4iXi3RvQABYo4Hu4R23FN AHsAn0ZEqZKAT8uFabtUk8KeYqk4bUfF =OC8N -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Problem with usb cable: device descriptor read/64, error -110
Hi Andy, thanks for your quick answer! Ok, that's the reason for the problem but it doesn't fix it completely. After flashing uboot (flashing works quite well so no problem with the cable) there was no more error message but also no success message. If I connect now my Freerunner to the usb port (when the Freerunner is powered up) there isn't any kind of message in dmesg on the host and there is also no new networking interface (usb0). So usb networking is still not working. Do I have to wait for an fix? Kev Am Montag, den 04.08.2008, 19:28 +0100 schrieb Andy Green: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Somebody in the thread at some point said: | So it should be the cable (hardware defect?) oder the neo update (using | 2007.2 with latest updates). | Did I miss something, any other ideas? Has someone this problems, too? | | It also seems, that the neo isn't charging anymore when it is connected | to the cable. The usb power supply is still working fine and can charge | the neo. | | Thanks a lot for your answer! This sounds exactly like the fault of the bad U-Boot we put out for a while. Boot into your NOR U-Boot by holding AUX while powering up, then dfu over today's U-Boot image. After that this should be no longer a problem. - -Andy -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkiXSj8ACgkQOjLpvpq7dMoTJwCePIo4iXi3RvQABYo4Hu4R23FN AHsAn0ZEqZKAT8uFabtUk8KeYqk4bUfF =OC8N -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: dfu-util upload problems
Hi, I have a little problem with dfu-util and my new Freerunner. I thought I'd make a backup of my Neo's filesystem before flashing new images onto it, so I tried to use dfu-util in upload mode to transfer the content of the Neo's flash to my desktop PC. Backing up the kernel partition works, but when I back up the rootfs partition dfu-util transfers about 247MB and then dies with dfu_upload error -84, while the phone immediately reboots. It always dies at the same position, but I'm not sure whether the backup is complete or not. Just wanted to say that I'm having the same problem (and same questions): I was able to upload 258076672 bytes (=246 Mb), but then dfu-util dies with dfu_upload error -16, and the FreeRunner reboots. This is on Mac OS X. Further details: I've tried it on my desktop and on my laptop PC, with Ubuntu 7.10, Ubuntu 8.04 and a grml live-cd, with various dfu-util binaries and one built from SVN, but the error appeared every time. The phone was hooked up directly to the host (no hub or something), U-Boot version on the phone is the originally installed 1.3.2-moko12 from May 9. Any ideas what's wrong? At least one other person (you?) has indicated a similar problem at http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Pre-Flash_Backup. Any ideas, anyone? Thanks, Kevin ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [qtopia on freerunner] - What is the right place to discuss Qtopia on Openmoko?
Plugging a Freerunner up via USB to a Debian system while running this image doesn't appear to charge. Is this a purely visual thing, or is Qtopia unable to charge a Freerunner? I'm assuming that since the other software can, this is a Qtopia thing? On Fri, Jul 11, 2008 at 4:04 PM, Lorn Potter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Randy S. wrote: Because it seems to make the FR the closest to actually usable, I am using the Qtopia v4.3.2 image and have run into some issues. Where is the proper place to discuss these things? Here in this forum, or in a Qtopia forum? Thx! I think here is fine. otherwise there is a qtopia-interest mailing list: http://lists.trolltech.com/qtopia-interest/ or there are qtopia forums at qtopia.net -- Lorn 'ljp' Potter Software Engineer, Systems Group, Trolltech, a Nokia company ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [qtopia on freerunner] - What is the right place to discuss Qtopia on Openmoko?
Attempting to launch the media player caused Qtopia to restart. Three times. Mp3 files on SD don't appear in the media player's lists, but they DO appear in Documents. Clicking on a mp3 file gives a media engine not configured error. The POWER button being held activates the Reset/Restart menu, but releasing the button causes it to close. I need to hold down POWER and press the button I want. On Fri, Jul 11, 2008 at 5:55 PM, Lorn Potter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Valerio Valerio wrote: Hi Lorn, great work with Qtopia image, it works fine in my Freerunner, but I found some problems: 1- I don't get the call sound in the speaker; What do you mean by 'call sound'? 2 - The Bluetooth keyboard seems to not input data to the applications (I test it in sms and in notes). Keep the good work :) Cheers, -- Valério Valério http://www.valeriovalerio.org ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- Lorn 'ljp' Potter Software Engineer, Systems Group, Trolltech, a Nokia company ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Number of GTA02s ordered as of 10 Jul 2008
On Thu, Jul 10, 2008 at 12:36 PM, Ron K. Jeffries [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My gut says OpenMoko first mass production run was approx 1,000 to 1,500. I think you're dramatically low-balling it. You're basing that on the number of phones ordered, but aren't factoring in the number shipped to resellers who have the item in stock but haven't sold it to a customer yet, the number in transit to those retailers and the distribution centers (one can assume that they're producing are a rate faster than they're shipping to customers), the number put into people's hands as test equipment for major media outlets, universities and the like. I'm willing to bet that, like Koolu, there are people or organizations with devices that aren't in end-user hands yet - an Android based Freerunner like the W.E. Phone (for instance) doesn't exist yet, but it's safe to say they're developing it on some form of hardware. Realistically speaking, the number of people with Freerunner's in their hands don't matter too much. The only reason I care at all about how many devices Openmoko fabricated is to know if they're generating revenue to be secure in a future product line. The number of devices produced doesn't correlate the the number of community members (one can assume there are device owners who will never join the OM community and that there are members without devices) and the number of users with devices doesn't correlate to Openmoko's profitability. Openmoko earns profit on devices that end up in closets and warehouses just the same. And... A bit more bluntly... I think there's a reason that the sales figures haven't been released. :) ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [qtopia on freerunner] - What files do I have to download?
On Thu, Jul 10, 2008 at 2:26 PM, Lorn Potter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Get the Qtopia flash image for FIC Neo Freerunner (gta02) file instead. http://www.qtopia.net/modules/mydownloads/viewcat.php?cid=6 That image is the one that contains a tar.gz image of the rootfs, not a jffs2 image. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Reviews?
On Thu, Jul 10, 2008 at 4:52 PM, Andy Selby [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Are you saying a neo1973 is more reliable then a freerunner? As of this moment, I have never Qtopia on my Freerunner. Lorn says there are Qtopia images for Freerunner, but I haven't seen them. Because, for my use, there is no reliably functioning software for the Freerunner but there IS for the 1973, yes, as of this moment and those conditions, I prefer the 1973 for daily use. IF (and that's a pretty hefty caveat) I were given a working Qtopia image for Freerunner, my opinion would change. There's nothing wrong with the Freerunner hardware, in fact I prefer it for the fade effect and improved battery life. The problem is ENTIRELY that the GTK 2007.02, ASU and FSO images (100% of the software I've seen running on Freerunner) doesn't meet my needs of decently reliable phone calls and media player capability for podcasts. The Freerunner is better hardware. Qtopia is better software. Is qtopia on GTA01 more stable than on GTA02? I've never used Qtopia on the Freerunner, but if it worked as well or better, the 1973 would find itself buried under a pile of papers and beer bottles on my desk, except for testing of images. Qtopia on Freerunner would rock, until one of the other images started working and tapping the wealth that is the broader Linux community. If so I'll put off buying a freerunner for the time being. I use qtopia aswell and my neo1973 is my primary phone. There's life in the old device yet. The 1973 is a nice device. The problems 1973 users might face come from what seems to be an abandonment by Openmoko Inc. There's the power controller firmware that doesn't seem to have been corrected, and the fact that the ASU developers don't seem to be developing on 1973. There are community projects, like the FSO and the SHR that will be targeting the 1973 and Freerunner both, and there's Qtopia which, for the moment, I've only see functioning on 1973 (I'd like to rectify this... seriously!) so 1973 users aren't screwed at all. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: questions about our mailinglists
Not everyone uses Gmail, but that said, most modern mail clients offer the same kind of sorting. Personally, I like modularlity. I'm subscribed to every Openmoko list except the kernel devel one, but I can see very compelling reasons why someone might be interested in say, not being on community but subscribing to device-owners. As far as the tags in the subject... I think it's a bad idea. If there is need of distinguishing which part of the list a specific message is part of, it really should have it's own list. On Tue, Jul 8, 2008 at 1:12 PM, Dustin Knie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: FWIW I prefer the mailing list subject lines as they are. [openmoko-users] preppended to the subject line just adds clutter and reduces the useful description of the subject that can be used in that line. Only so much fits in the list of messages in the mail- client's window and [openmoko-users] isn't as useful as Bug with libfoo.so.1 and SMS sent from Nokia 800. Endianness problem? Prefixing [openmoko-users] or whatever can cause quite a bit of mess if messages are cross-posted between lists or redirected from one list to the other (this shouldn't be on -dev, so I'm replying to - users). I'm of the same feeling. Using GMail for lists and setting up rules to auto-label incoming mail removes the need for that entirely, and would further clutter up stuff. It's a annoying to see openmoko-community [openmoko-community] Subject ... Just my 2 cents. Dustin ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: T-Mobile with ASU on GTA01?
I've not used the ASU on a 1973, but I know I've never been able to place calls using the ASU on Freerunner and I use T-Mobile in the USA with the exception of the first image released. I've always assumed ASU just didn't work. On Tue, Jul 8, 2008 at 7:19 PM, Chris Hessing [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all, Hopefully I get my terminology right. Late last year there were some issues with the T-Mobile SIMs and the GTA01. I got side-tracked on my GTA01 efforts and never sent my phone in for the firmware update. A few days ago I tried an OpenMoko build from late April, and found it worked with the T-Mo SIM. For fun, I also played with the FSO image, and had no problem. When I flashed a current ASU image (if my terminology is correct, the ASU image is the Qt/X11 image), it didn't work. The signal strength indication would change from time-to-time, but when I dialed it just said dialing, and the phone on the other end didn't ring. (There was also no indication that the phone had registered with the T-Mobile network.) Has anyone seen this? Should I even be expecting it to work? Thanks! ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GPS
Hi, I did some tests yesterday and here are my experiences with Freerunner's GPS: First I put the Freerunner on a window sill in a penthouse, no high-rise around. I got a fix after ~20 minutes. Disappointing. Later on I walked along in a big city between a lot of high-rises. After 15 minutes, the neo found the first satellite, but nothing more, no fix, only a gps-time. After 30 minutes I activated the power management (first dim, than lock) so the neo could be sleeping again, I gave up. Very Disappointing. A few hours later I sat down on a canvas chair at a bank of a more than 510 meters wide river in the same city, the last high rises are more than 100 meters behind me. I woke up my neo, unlocked it, started tango gps, looked at it. Nothing. I looked to the left and to the right, looked again at my neo. Stop. looked again at my neo and couldn't believe my eyes. There are 5 satellites in the display, the gps chip is using 3 of them. I GOT A FIX in less than 20 seconds! Very amazing! After one more minute, the neo was using 8 of 11 satellites. That was a really great experience. After the neo got the fix, I nearly could do everything I want, it won't loose it. I walked back in the city, worn the neo inside the pouch in my trouser pocket, around me all this big high rises. It was still tracking me and drawing this very interesting red line in my tango gps map. I couldn't believe it. I went to the home of a friend, gone up the staircase and took the neo out of my pocket in the apartment. I couldn't believe my eyes again. Tango gps was still drawing the red line, even in the staircase. It looked like: ___ | _| | |_ | Unfortunately I missed the chance to take a screenshot, but it was really amazing. My conclusion is that the chipset can't be so bad :) But the question is: Why is it so hard to get a fix, when there is something around? Is there any space for software improvements? Maybe different search algorithm or is it all in the hardware or driver-side? (All without an external gps antenna) Kevin Am Montag, den 07.07.2008, 09:40 +0200 schrieb Kai Römer: Hi Al, Sounds really convincing, but how do you explain the constantly fast fix via external antenna then. I really think its an antenna issue. Also the difference of the GPGSV values support this idea. Tomorrow evening i will ask a specialist to check the antenna signal qualities. Maybe a cable is broken or there is a short circuit on the main board. I ll report about the results. CU Kai 2008/7/6 Al Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED]: From what I've seen on the wiki the version of the Antares4 on the GTA02 doesn't have the memory needed to store almanac and ephemeris, last known position or time. This means that every start is a true cold start, unlike every other reasonably modern GPS we're comparing it to. It starts up thinking the time is midnight on 30th November 1999 and seems to need a fair bit of decent signal to convince it otherwise, contributing to the long startup time. It looks like there is a way around this if you look at the documentation for the assist. The AID-INI message needn't be supplied by a remote server; we can generate it locally to provide the sort of data that's stored internally most of the time. At the very least we have a fair idea of the current time and date. We should also be able to store location, almanac and ephemeris when we shut down the GPS, and provide it at the next startup. We can also have a stab at current location, based perhaps on cell ID or wifi data as discussed by some of the other threads, or on user input. I'll try to patch together something to do this based on the example perl client and server code, and see how much difference it makes. On Friday 04 July 2008, Kai Römer wrote: I can affirm this for 6 opemoko devices. i guess its an internal antenna issue. as soon as you connect a external antenna to it works like a charm. but fur me thats no solution. TTFF with external antenna (perfect condition): 40 to 60 seconds TTFF with internal antenna AGPS (perfect condition): more than 1:20 minute but not always. its like gambling. I guess a miss design of the internal antenna. CU Kai 2008/6/23 Peter Kraker [EMAIL PROTECTED]: This timings are insane unless you don't even have a valid almanac, which is rare. This doesn't look right. Yorick Matthys pravi: Marcus Bauer said: My experience with the Freerunner is ~12 minutes TTFF (time to first fix) without use of agps and ~4-8 minutes TTFF with agps from agps.u-blox.com using the software from openmoko. The Neo1973 (GTA01) had a TTFF without agps assistance of ~2 min. 12 minutes without AGPS and 4-8min with AGPS?? I hope there was a thunderstorm inside the basement where you tested this... :) Seriously, these just don't seem realistic. Compare them for example with some other devices from 2003
Re: freerunner unable to work with 3G SIMCards?
Am Montag, den 07.07.2008, 11:56 +0200 schrieb Joachim Steiger: Chaosspawn23 wrote: [unlurk] Having the same problem with my O2 SIMCard, I too would like to offer my help in tracking down the problem. Just tell me if I can do something to help. [/unlurk] hey there i've done a few quick tests with a borrowed O2 3G-sim and ran into the same problem. BUT since this sim is from a gsm-geek we quickly tested a few things: this sim had the pin set to 'off' (not asking, just do register) and the FSO milestone1 which i used for testing still was asking me for a pin. obviously the previously used pin was not accepted. then we put the sim into another phone, set the pin from 'off' to '' and swapped it back to the FR. after booting FSO asked for a pin again, and this time it took the and registered fine. a quick call worked fine from that point on. so: if your O2 3g sim does not want your (supposedly correct) pin, check if the pin is really needed with a second phone, and if not, set it to or so. if this works for more people than just me, we might just have found a workaround. ps: i have photos of the 'tricky' O2 sim, so if youre unsure or find yours does the same, we should be able to identify the manufacturer by a nice high-res shot of the 'chip' (the layout of the pads is somehow 'characteristic') kind regards Hi, thanks for your tests, you rose a big hope in me, but unfortunately it didn't work for me: --- AT STR=`AT' RSTR=`OK' AT+CFUN=1 STR=`AT+CFUN=1' RSTR=`OK' AT+CPIN? STR=`AT+CPIN?' RSTR=`+CPIN: SIM PIN' AT+CPIN= STR=`AT+CPIN=' RSTR=`OK' AT+CPIN? STR=`AT+CPIN?' RSTR=`+CPIN: SIM PIN' AT+CREG=1 STR=`AT+CREG=1' RSTR=`OK' AT+COPS=0 STR=`AT+COPS=0' EVENT: Netreg searching for network EVENT: Netreg registration denied cme error: 32 RSTR=`+CME ERROR: 32' EVENT: Signal Quality: 21 --- so, same again :(. With disabled PIN: --- [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~# libgsmd-tool -m atcmd libgsm-tool - (C) 2006-2007 by Harald Welte and OpenMoko, Inc. This program is Free Software and has ABSOLUTELY NO WARRANTY AT STR=`AT' RSTR=`OK' AT+CFUN=1 STR=`AT+CFUN=1' cme error: 100 RSTR=`+CME ERROR: 100' [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~# libgsmd-tool -m atcmd libgsm-tool - (C) 2006-2007 by Harald Welte and OpenMoko, Inc. This program is Free Software and has ABSOLUTELY NO WARRANTY AT STR=`AT' RSTR=`OK' AT+CPIN? STR=`AT+CPIN?' cme error: 15 RSTR=`+CME ERROR: 15' [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~# libgsmd-tool -m atcmd libgsm-tool - (C) 2006-2007 by Harald Welte and OpenMoko, Inc. This program is Free Software and has ABSOLUTELY NO WARRANTY AT STR=`AT' RSTR=`OK' AT+CREG=1 STR=`AT+CREG=1' RSTR=`OK' AT+COPS=0 STR=`AT+COPS=0' cme error: 3 RSTR=`+CME ERROR: 3' - After that, I enabled PIN again and test it, but same as at the beginning. Anything other to test? Kevin ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: freerunner unable to work with 3G SIMCards?
Am Montag, den 07.07.2008, 14:25 +0200 schrieb Joachim Steiger: thanks for testing that, even if it didnt help. after reading shawn lin's testreport i believe we really have a problem with the 1.8V sim cards then. too bad the one i tested has no voltage printed on (some sims have, this sadly doesnt). will try to find out next time i get near that sim. regards But, regarding to shwan lin's report, you can see that the sim isn't working correct because of the wrong voltage with the command AT +CFUN=1 with an responding ERROR. If there's an OK respond, it will work. As in my last mails reported, there is an OK as a response of AT +CFUN. So in my judgement the voltage isn't the problem. Or did I understood something totally wrong? Maybe this sorts of sim cards have more differences than only the voltage? Is there a way to find out the voltage with a multimeter or something else? On my card isn't printed something, too. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: freerunner unable to work with 3G SIMCards?
Am Montag, den 07.07.2008, 14:46 +0200 schrieb Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller: Am 04.07.2008 um 17:19 schrieb Kevin Zuber: Any news here? I got the same error with the commands: AT STR=`AT' RSTR=`OK' AT+CPIN? STR=`AT+CPIN?' RSTR=`+CPIN: SIM PIN' AT+CPIN=MYPIN STR=`AT+CPIN=MYPIN' cme error: 3 RSTR=`+CME ERROR: 3' What could be the reason? Thanks alot. I got this error 3 on a very old D2 (Vodafone) SIM card when using the command line access. But PIN entry and registration through the GUI works. So, this one must be a different error. That was only a syntax error. Try it again with AT+CPIN=MyPIN. Don't forget the and . Then it should work with your D2 SIM card using the command line, because I tried it with an 9 year old D2 SIM card yesterday. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Reviews?
Yeah, I learned a hard lesson. :( Speaking very honestly, I don't use my Freerunner in daily use but I use my 1973 with Qtopia since it's pretty stable and functional. There are several ways to get involved with Openmoko development without a Freerunner, like in Qemu or Xepher or whatnot. I'm sure Openmoko would be happy to take your money in a few months just as they'd take it today. Today, the Freerunner is intended for developers not daily use, but it'll get there in one of several forms over the next few months. :) On Mon, Jul 7, 2008 at 7:55 PM, nickd [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Looks like his server hosting the images suffered a hard-drive failure: http://www.monochromementality.com/index.php/blog/show/This-Site-Broken-Articles-And-Learning-Python.html Milos Mandaric wrote: Have look at this one http://www.monochromementality.com/index.php/blog/show/Day-One-Openmoko-Freerunner-1.html from Kevin Dean. I am not sure why the photos are missing. On Mon, 2008-07-07 at 16:02 -0700, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all, Does anyone know if there are any good reviews floating around for the FreeRunner yet? (And if not, does someone who already has theirs want to write one?) I'm a college student so money's very tight and I'm trying to justify purchasing one, but I want to know exactly what I'm getting first (in terms of functionality). Specifically, I'm wondering about: Cell phone functionality: Is full cellphone functionality (i.e. sending and receiving calls/SMS) currently working stably? Internet connectivity: At what stage of development is internet connectivity, both through wifi and the cellular network? Is there a decently functional browser yet? SSH: Related to above, is SSH working? Audio: How functional is the FreeRunner as a PMP? OGG support is a must and mp3 and FLAC would be good. Development portability: How easy is it to develop/compile new programs for the platform and how easy is it to port existing applications? Misc: Battery life for normal usage? Is there a JVM yet? Ruggedness? Compatibility with ATT SIMs? If anyone has any input on these, it's greatly appreciated. Feel free to e-mail me privately if you don't feel it'd be interesting to anyone else on the list. Thanks, Evan ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: freerunner unable to work with 3G SIMCards?
So, what should I do now? Change my provider? Buy a prepaid sim card?... Really, that can't be a solution. BTW.: I tested a sim card from a friend and it worked. It was an 9 YEAR old simcard (G2)! His provider is vodafone, but the sim card is so old, that there is an D2 Mannesmann logo on it (an provider, that doesn't exist anymore). But no o2 card seems to work (in the meantime, I have test a 3rd o2 card in my phone from another person, all three are g3). On Sat, 05 Jul 2008 16:27:11 -0700, Michael Shiloh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Steven Kurylo wrote: now, I got some more infos, but it still doesn't work. Today I was on an O2 shop, too. They gave me a NEW SIMCARD and I tried it. Same again. It doesn't want my pin. I asked the man in the shop and he called someone, after this, he said that it is the newest simcard they have. So: Get a newer simcard is NO solution. Actually if you look at your AT output, you're now getting error 32 which is Network not allowed, emergency calls only. I'm no gsm expert, but my first thought is that O2 didn't activate the new sim card. Try the new sim card in a different phone? Or double check with O2 that the new sim card has been activated. Good theory - Ian, didn't we have this problem with your SIM card at SCALE? I've used prepaid SIM cards with good results - I always test in the store before I leave, for this very reason. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Assassin visiting the morgue...
How about Morbid and Macabre? On Sun, Jul 6, 2008 at 6:41 PM, Gilles Casse [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello, Some recent projects names are a little bit 'haloweenistisc': assassin, morgue. Using them all along the year, on a dark device, argh... If this vein is pursued, please note that Alzheimer, Ebola, JackTheRipper are already reserved at sourceforge. What a chance :-) Gilles ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: freerunner unable to work with 3G SIMCards?
Hi, now, I got some more infos, but it still doesn't work. Today I was on an O2 shop, too. They gave me a NEW SIMCARD and I tried it. Same again. It doesn't want my pin. I asked the man in the shop and he called someone, after this, he said that it is the newest simcard they have. So: Get a newer simcard is NO solution. Here is the AT command stuff: - [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~# libgsmd-tool -m atcmd libgsm-tool - (C) 2006-2007 by Harald Welte and OpenMoko, Inc. This program is Free Software and has ABSOLUTELY NO WARRANTY AT STR=`AT' RSTR=`OK' AT+CFUN=1 STR=`AT+CFUN=1' RSTR=`OK' AT+CPIN? STR=`AT+CPIN?' RSTR=`+CPIN: SIM PIN' AT+CPIN=MyPIN STR=`AT+CPIN=MyPIN' RSTR=`OK' AT+CPIN? STR=`AT+CPIN?' RSTR=`+CPIN: SIM PIN' AT+CREG=1 STR=`AT+CREG=1' RSTR=`OK' AT+COPS=0 STR=`AT+COPS=0' EVENT: Netreg searching for network EVENT: Netreg registration denied cme error: 32 RSTR=`+CME ERROR: 32' EVENT: Signal Quality: 31 EVENT: Signal Quality: 31 - On Thursday 03 July 2008 21:29:31 Arne Zachlod wrote: AT+CPIN= Try with quotes, AT+CPIN= and according to GSM 07.07 CME ERROR. The general error 3 is operation not allowed. z. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: freerunner unable to work with 3G SIMCards?
Thanks for your reply, but the AT command was on the old (card was from decembre 07 - not so old), 100% working card (working on other phone). I haven't test it in the new one in the command line, because it's not activated already, but it must take the sim and then say not activated or so... (regarding to the men in the o2 shop) On Sat, 5 Jul 2008 12:25:57 -0700, Steven Kurylo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: now, I got some more infos, but it still doesn't work. Today I was on an O2 shop, too. They gave me a NEW SIMCARD and I tried it. Same again. It doesn't want my pin. I asked the man in the shop and he called someone, after this, he said that it is the newest simcard they have. So: Get a newer simcard is NO solution. Actually if you look at your AT output, you're now getting error 32 which is Network not allowed, emergency calls only. I'm no gsm expert, but my first thought is that O2 didn't activate the new sim card. Try the new sim card in a different phone? Or double check with O2 that the new sim card has been activated. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Freerunner @ pulster.eu Shop
My Freerunner is just arrived, it was a very big surprise because I had no your freerunner is on the way message - it just was here - suddenly :) :) Thanks a lot pulster! BTW. My 8 GB SD card seems to work: /dev/mmcblk0p17.6G 32.0k 7.6G 0% /media/card :) But it won't take my pin of my German O2 (3g) sim-card.. Kev ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: freerunner unable to work with 3G SIMCards?
Any news here? I got the same error with the commands: AT STR=`AT' RSTR=`OK' AT+CPIN? STR=`AT+CPIN?' RSTR=`+CPIN: SIM PIN' AT+CPIN=MYPIN STR=`AT+CPIN=MYPIN' cme error: 3 RSTR=`+CME ERROR: 3' What could be the reason? Thanks alot. Kev Am Donnerstag, den 03.07.2008, 21:29 +0200 schrieb Arne Zachlod: Holger Freyther schrieb: On Wednesday 02 July 2008 23:48:59 Arne Zachlod wrote: Hej guys, I had got my today and i have tested it, but my 3G card doesn't function with it. he can't find a network and is unable to get the pin. (i have disabled pin with another phone, then there was only the problem that he doesn't find a network). but with other SIM Cards form same provider there is no problem. and other, non-3G-phones hasn't problem with this card, too. i have no idea where i can find any informations. the gsm.log file doesn't exist and my gsm-firmware-version is moko8. So, my question is: does anybody else has a problem with 3G Sim card? In general minicom is your friend. Reenable the PIN on your simcard. execute AT to see if the modem responds to you (kill other users if not), reset using sysfs files if needed. Once you get OK on an AT request do: AT+CFUN=1 AT+CPIN? it should ask for SIM PIN.. AT+CPIN=YOURPIN AT+CPIN? it should say it is ready.. AT+CREG=1 AT+COPS=0 you should see +CREG coming by. alternatively if you have qpe installed. You can go to /opt/Qtopia/etc/default/Trolltech/Log.conf change all Enabled = 0 to Enabled = 1. Kill the qpe process, take a look at /etc/X11/XSession.d/89qtopia, copy the two exports to your console, run qpe and take a look at the chat qpe has with the modem. please share your results and if you don't know what I'm talking about ask. z. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community I hope I have understood you correctly and did what u meant. this is the console output: [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~# libgsmd-tool -m atcmd libgsm-tool - (C) 2006-2007 by Harald Welte and OpenMoko, Inc. This program is Free Software and has ABSOLUTELY NO WARRANTY AT STR=`AT' RSTR=`OK' AT+CFUN=1 STR=`AT+CFUN=1' RSTR=`OK' AT+CPIN? STR=`AT+CPIN?' RSTR=`+CPIN: SIM PIN' AT+CPIN= STR=`AT+CPIN=' cme error: 3 RSTR=`+CME ERROR: 3' so, i don't know what this error means, but the PIN was right. i hope anyone can imagine something with this, because i can't ;) bye, Arne ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: rationale for ASU (and change from GTK to Qt)
http://gettingstartedopenmoko.wordpress.com/2008/05/19/openmoko-software-update On Fri, Jun 27, 2008 at 2:01 PM, Ron K. Jeffries [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Can someone explain the rationale for the decision to switch from the original GTK based OpenMoko to QT based version known as April Software Update (ASU)? As an observer, it's my impression that ASU represents a significant architectural change that somehow, Wham! Bang! just happened. Transparency is a virtue. g Ron K. Jeffries http://www.retaggr.com/Card/rjeffries ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Heller versus DC
My apologies, auto-completion took the wrong li. That was not meant for the list. I really need to stop using Gmail. :( On Thu, Jun 26, 2008 at 12:58 PM, arne anka [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: though i don't understand how this is related in any way the use of om phones, the first thing crossing my mind was: finally. anyway, i think it is _ totally_ off topic On Thu, 26 Jun 2008 18:52:54 +0200, Kevin Dean [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The Supreme Court made a ruling today on the Heller versus DC case and affirmed for the first time since 1791 when the second amendement passed - the right to own guns is an INDIVIDUAL right of all Americans. Of course, it wasn't super special, since it did make it clear that some prohibition is acceptable. :( The scary part... The ruling was 5-4. The second amendement, which says pretty damn clearly shall not be infringed was interpreted by 5 people (who beat 4) as meaning can be infringed, as long as it's not totally infringed. Once more vote for No and the second amendment would have been abolished. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: FR with embedded projector and LASER keyboard
I strongly doubt that future versions will have a laser keyboard and projector. That said, the laser keyboard exists and you can buy a Bluetooth one. And since when did the freerunner run Mac OS X? :P On Thu, Jun 26, 2008 at 2:44 PM, Atilla Filiz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Seemed fake to me. On Thu, Jun 26, 2008 at 8:03 PM, Francesco Cat [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ?? Is this the first fork of an open hardware project??? if it is a fork, what about implementing laser keyboard and projector in the next GTA? :P 2008/6/26 Flemming Richter Mikkelsen [EMAIL PROTECTED]: http://koolu.com/WE-Phone/GET-YOUR-FREE-W.E.-SMART-PHONE.html The current generation of the phone does not include the laser keyboard or built in projector. The Laser keyboard is sold separatey. The next generation of the phone will incorporate the laser keyboard and tiny LED projector built in. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- - Bu mesaj UTF-8 ile kodlanmıştır - Atilla Filiz Technische Universiteit Eindhoven Embedded Systems, Master's Programme ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Slashdot post but no web store?
It's interesting... Your pictures are on a wood background too. :) I'm jealous... I didn't get a green band around my box... It's so fitting with the ASU theme. :) On Thu, Jun 26, 2008 at 4:49 PM, Simon Moore [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Peter Strapp wrote: I sure hope it's for sale as I have a UPS tracking number from Truebox (UK Openmoko Distributor) that says that it has been collected from them. I'm hoping it will be in my hands tomorrow. Their website also states that the first batch of Freerunners have been sent to customers (https://www.truebox.co.uk/trueboxportal/index.php?wk=Openmoko). First boot! (sorry, I couldn't resist) I received my FreeRunner from Truebox today :) A few very quick pictures here: http://www.snmoore.net/openmoko/pictures/freerunner/ Cheers, Simon ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Best Image to run on the neo1973 these days?
ScaredyCat's images are probably the most functional of all of them at this point, especially since they will auto-detect the gllin .ipk if it's installed on your device and it includes TangoGPS. I don't use GPS on my Neo and what I personally run is Qtopia because it's media player can fast forward, though I think they've pulled their image down from their site. On Wed, Jun 25, 2008 at 10:05 AM, Jay Vaughan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi folks, What do you recommend I should run on my neo1973 these days, image- wise? I've been usually lagging way behind with keeping up to date with Scaredycats releases, but I'm aware there are other images out there making the rounds .. so what are your guys' experience with this so far? Is the ASU the one to run, for GPS and phone-call making, or is there something better? Right now I'd be very happy if I could get GPS working, for good, and as well use the phone for calls .. mostly I've had it around to do development work, but it seems that the image makers out there might be pushing things in interesting territories already .. so how about it folks, got a recommendation? ; -- Jay Vaughan ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: ATT SIM problems
On Wed, Jun 25, 2008 at 1:26 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That sounds like yes to me... This would be a very important issue for me, as I'm definitely going to have to use ATT. On Tue, Jun 24, 2008 at 10:01 PM, Vinc Duran [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, Jun 24, 2008 at 11:41 AM, Daniel Dadap [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sorry if this question has been asked before, but I have noticed that there seem to be issues with ATT SIM cards and the Neo1973. (http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=666) Have they been resolved in the FreeRunner? ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community It looks like there's more information on this bug here http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Community_Updates, scroll down to Delivery of a GSM firmware update for the 3G SIM bug. From this I'd think [EMAIL PROTECTED] would know more. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: warranty
Sounds pretty final to me. 14 day DOA on individual units. 28 day DOA on 10-pack purchases. On Wed, Jun 25, 2008 at 2:02 PM, Dave O'Connor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is this the final word on warranties or are you still trying to work that out? On Wed, 25 Jun 2008, steve wrote: 10 pack is a 28 day DOA. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ajit Natarajan Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2008 1:41 PM To: community@lists.openmoko.org Subject: warranty Steve/Michael, Sorry to be a bother, but could you update us on the U.S. warranty situation for the FR? I understand that there is a 14-day DOA warranty. Is that it? Or will we getting a 1-year or some such? Please let us know if there will be a difference in warranty between the 10 pack and individual unit purchases. Thanks. Ajit ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: warranty
Realized that looked confrontational. :) I should have phrased it There didn't seem to be any indicaiton that this would or has changed, do you have reason to doubt that this policy is the official one? -Kevin On Wed, Jun 25, 2008 at 2:08 PM, Kevin Dean [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sounds pretty final to me. 14 day DOA on individual units. 28 day DOA on 10-pack purchases. On Wed, Jun 25, 2008 at 2:02 PM, Dave O'Connor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is this the final word on warranties or are you still trying to work that out? On Wed, 25 Jun 2008, steve wrote: 10 pack is a 28 day DOA. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ajit Natarajan Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2008 1:41 PM To: community@lists.openmoko.org Subject: warranty Steve/Michael, Sorry to be a bother, but could you update us on the U.S. warranty situation for the FR? I understand that there is a 14-day DOA warranty. Is that it? Or will we getting a 1-year or some such? Please let us know if there will be a difference in warranty between the 10 pack and individual unit purchases. Thanks. Ajit ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Slashdot post but no web store?
The rumors of the Freerunner being on sale have been greatly exagerated. From what I've heard, SOME distributors have been notified that Freerunner devices are being shipped to those retailers. Retailers need to have a product in stock in order to sell it on the day it is released, that is what is happening now. The Freerunners are being shipped to them. For the end user, absoluely nothing has changed since yesterday. The reason the Openmoko web store hasn't been updated yet is because the Freerunner isn't for sale yet. :) That said, Openmoko is getting a lot of attention right now because of that article, so it's probably a very good thing to have some form of anticipation building message or teaser product there to keep the hype going... On Wed, Jun 25, 2008 at 4:37 PM, Andy Selby [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: nerdyH writes Openmoko has begun shipping its Linux-based, open source Neo Freerunner phone to five newly announced distributors, in Germany, France, and India, says the company. /me checks Gmail and finds nothing on the announce list so heart recommences beating. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: warranty
On Wed, Jun 25, 2008 at 3:24 PM, Arne Zachlod [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: in Germany (or the whole EU) every reseller has to give a warranty for private customers from 2 years. i can't imagine that any reseller will sell only one unit if there is no longer warranty option. That's why I think resellers in Europe outnumber resellers in other areas. By using retailers, Openmoko doesn't have to inflate the cost to the rest of the world. That way, only the people in the EU have to bear the extra costs that such warranties incur. This is just my speculation, of course. the great thing about the free market is that if people want longer warranties, they're free to purchase from a reseller who provides that. :) ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: FSO Image gets it right
On Wed, Jun 25, 2008 at 4:50 PM, Lorn Potter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Graeme Gregory wrote: Well I have seen the future and the future is FSO. For the first time I have been able to make and receive phone calls on a gta02 without hassle. GTK+ software could no do this, qtopia software cannot do this. ermmm.. Qtopia makes calls just fine on both devices. Excellent! I already know the answer, but where can I get a Qtopia image for the Freerunner? :P Sorry, just have to poke at you on that one. :) I run Qtopia on my 01 and kinda leave the freerunenr on my home desk since I can't be seperated from my Podcasts. :) ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: ATT SIM problems
Actually, this bug has been closed as far as ATT SIMS. There was a firmware update that corrected the issue (had to be done by an Openmoko employee). The bug is still open because it's a more generic 3G cards don't work and there are some problems with 02 and Vodaphone cards. The last I've heard from American ATT customers, the firmware update corrected the problem. On Wed, Jun 25, 2008 at 6:07 PM, Daniel Dadap [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks, Vinc. What worried me was the fact that the trouble ticket isn't closed yet, and there's no positive confirmation that ATT SIMs work now that I have found. I e-mailed Michael; hopefully he'll have the answers. (Also, sorry to everybody for posting twice. For whatever reason my message didn't go through when I posted it the first time. I re-posted several hours later, only to discover that my original message made it several hours after that.) From: Vinc Duran [EMAIL PROTECTED] It looks like there's more information on this bug here http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Community_Updates, scroll down to Delivery of a GSM firmware update for the 3G SIM bug. From this I'd think [EMAIL PROTECTED] would know more. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Slashdot post but no web store?
In all fairness, I don't think he's a troll, it just appears that the device doesn't meet his needs. Let me put something out there that is VERY VERY clearly stated. The Freerunner is not ready for a consumer grade device today. The hardware that will be available soon is intended for DEVELOPERS to build their applications on the Openmoko platform so that when the device is launched to end-users, there will be a wide selection of usable applications. If you buy a freerunner before the mass market launch, do not feel upset that a feature isn't there because this stage is intended for people writing those features. That said, advanced Linux users, or people who just like poking around at cool things can have a ton of fun with these devices at this early stage too. :) Point by point: ** old TI GSM modem, recamping once a minute(!) to the mobile station, eating battery like crazy and very unreliable. A TI engineer asked me if they (openmoko) got the chips for free, as they are so ancient - no EDGE, GPRS w/ 2KB/s. Openmoko is likely the last buyer. ** This may actually be truish. From what I understand, 3G GSM modules are essentially 100% closed, non-free or restrictive. Take your pick. Openmoko's goals are openness and the current landscape doesn't allow that to be met with 3G. This is why there's a potentially ancient system. The Model T got people around. :) This ancient GSM module makes calls and sends SMS messages just fine. The battery thing is being dealt with, it's a matter of the software. *** audio quailty on the headphone is lousy due to a hardware bug - as mp3 player useless *** A bug I reported (http://docs.openmoko.org/trac/ticket/1377) means it fails at being a personal audio player for now. The headset that came in the box with the 1973 and the Freerunner aren't particularly good, but that's ENTIRELY a subjective thing. I connect my 1973 to my car's AUX input and it sounds just fine. The issue he has is with the headset, not the jack. Either way, his assessment is true - headset quality and audio issues make using the Freerunner as a DAP impossible today. *** headphone only mono. i.e. only one side works *** This is wrong, mmontour corrected it it on Slashdot. *** headphone unusable for making phone calls due to EM-interferences *** Not sure if it's EM interference, but all the software I've used simply couldn't route the GSM stuff to the headset. I'm assuming it's a software issue but this is true in my experience, the included headset can't be used to make calls. *** no bluetooth headset support *** Again, a software issue. There is a bluetooth profit to play audio through headsets, I'm assuming that can work on Openmoko hardware but hasn't been adapted to do that yet. *** no bluetooth keyboard support (dropped since last version) *** Software issue. ScaredyCat's images do it quite easily. But the ASU (latest version) and the FSO do not. *** graphics sluggish and even slower than Neo 1973 despite 2D accel chip *** Fact. *** GPS has 10 minutes TTFF - yes, in 2008 where every cheapo GPS gets a fix in 45secs *** I've not gotten a fix EVER on the GPS - it's a software issue, I assume because I've gotten the GPS hardware to respond while poking at it. *** developer community alienated by Lauer Co. GNOME knew why they kicked Rasterman out. *** Actually, this one might be trolling. I don't know about social politics, and frankly don't care. True or not, it's not relevant to the hardware sucking or being amazing. *** so called ASU software is pre-alpha and reinventing the wheel once again *** Fact. On Wed, Jun 25, 2008 at 6:17 PM, Andy Selby [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That said, Openmoko is getting a lot of attention right now because of that article, so it's probably a very good thing to have some form of anticipation building message or teaser product there to keep the hype going... Not all of it good, If anyone has mod points on slashdot can they mod this guy down? http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=595147cid=23939209 He's obviously registered that account just now to troll on the project. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Slashdot post but no web store?
On Wed, Jun 25, 2008 at 7:08 PM, Yorick Moko [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It states in the wiki (http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo_FreeRunner) clearly: The Neo FreeRunner is a GNU/Linux based touch screen smart phone aimed at general consumer use as well as GNU/Linux desktop users and GNU/Linux software developers. The Freerunner is indeed the device aimed at both consumers and devs. I'm not saying it is not. What I am saying is that this release, the one that will happen within a matter of weeks, is intended for developers. There was a problem in the beginning about how the media reported (and I'll say that Openmoko not correcting this was a problem too) that the 1973 hardware would be developer only but reported that the Freerunner, once released, would be a mass market device and THIS IS NOT TRUE. The Freerunner + software WILL be released as a mass market device at some point but there was no intention, statement or plan to release a FUNCTIONAL Freerunner the moment there was a Freerunner. The marketing plan (as the wiki reflects) is that The Freerunner will be a device marketed to the general public. What the author, and MANY people assumed is Since this device is intended for the mass market, it will be fully functional if I can buy it. I agree it is not yet ready for the masses, but I do expect the hardware to be capable and sufficient once the software has been taken care of. The neo1973 hardware was for developers. The FreeRunner is for developers AND users. I agree as well. As an owner of both devices, I'm pretty darn sure it's a good deal. :) The problem, as I noted in most of those cases, is missing hardware - the author assumed he should be able to do everything and he cant. What goes on sale soon is the FreeRunner hardware not, A Freerunner running software that gives it functionality. I'm not trying to rain on anyone's parade here. :) I love Openmoko and the project's directives. I like that there's a company building Free Software powered phones and I'm willing to pay to support the continuation of that. :) However, I think that by hyping Openmoko when it's not ready will lead a LOT of people to be disappointed, as that author was. This is obviously because of false assumptions, but valid or not, that author's opinion was read by some people which may make them question a future purpose. I just want to make sure that people understand what is happening. Freerunner is a hardware device and it goes on sale soon. Openmoko is a software stack for embedded devices. Freerunner is ready, Openmoko is not. People who don't get that shouldn't be mislead into thinking somethign else is the case - moderating that guys comments would have been (in my eyes) doing that since what he said isn't actually inaccurate, just based on I expect that in due time the gsm (call, sms, mms), gps, wifi and Bluetooth will be fully functional and I want a smooth UI on a phone with a medium battery lifetime. I do realise that it will take some time and I will be patient. But if that is never going to happen, then Openmoko should have informed his intended users better. This will happen. There is no hardware reason why it can't happen. All of the shortcomings the guy mentioned are, as far as we know, a problem that the software isn't ready. The headphones silencing the speakers thing, I think, is because there's no ALSA setting for headset. The lack of bluetooth audio is because the Bluetooth Audio profile hasn't been ported yet. That's kind of my point though - you and I understand that the HARDWARE is on sale now, but the author didn't. What he said is true - those things do not work right now. His premise, not the hardware, was flawed. I have not yet read a anything that said these goals could not be reached (with a sufficient amount of time and effort). Have a little faith ;-) Faith has little to do with it. There's a passionate community and I'll put a lot of stock into that. y On Thu, Jun 26, 2008 at 12:44 AM, Kevin Dean [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In all fairness, I don't think he's a troll, it just appears that the device doesn't meet his needs. Let me put something out there that is VERY VERY clearly stated. The Freerunner is not ready for a consumer grade device today. The hardware that will be available soon is intended for DEVELOPERS to build their applications on the Openmoko platform so that when the device is launched to end-users, there will be a wide selection of usable applications. If you buy a freerunner before the mass market launch, do not feel upset that a feature isn't there because this stage is intended for people writing those features. That said, advanced Linux users, or people who just like poking around at cool things can have a ton of fun with these devices at this early stage too. :) Point by point: ** old TI GSM modem, recamping once a minute(!) to the mobile station, eating battery like crazy and very unreliable. A TI engineer asked me
Re: upgrade memory card
On Tue, Jun 24, 2008 at 4:31 PM, Vinc Duran [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello, I have a question about the miniSD card in the FreeRunner. If I want to install a larger card at some point is it any easier to already have the new card in hand before I even turn on the FR and just install it when I get the FR? I'm wondering if the card comes blank or does it have important stuff on it already when the FR arrives. Also wondering if when I turn on the device will it start using the card in a big way by itself? The card is 100% optional. The 512 MB card that comes with it is blank. All of the important system information is stored in Flash itself. THe SD card is simply mounted once the device is booted, so to install a bigger card all you have to do is physically insert it and turn the device on. Freerunner will function just fine without any card at all but there are obvious benefits to having one. :) I'd like to avoid having to ask for help after breaking the phone for instance by yanking out the card after the OS puts something important there. Nothing system-side is put on it. IIRC, older Qtopia snapshots on the 1973 put user data on the card if it were there, but it's possible that was me playing with a symlink too. :P Assuming for a moment it DID put the data on the card, removing it would simply make you start fresh as if you have booted for hte first time. Not something horrible, since you can reinsert the card, and you'll probably back up your card if you're upgrading anyway. I checked the wiki http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Supported_microSD_cards for ideas on what larger cards might work. I'm hoping those folks who have their hands on FR's and have experimented with other cards will keep the list updated. The last update to that page was in May. Thanks, Vinc ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
MokoMakefile Build Issues
I'm attempting to build an ASU image from the asu.stable branch on a Debian Etch system (AMD64 arch) using MokoMakefile. I've edited the makefile to echo gta02 to local.conf instead of 01 and changed GIT_BRANCH to asu.stable. I've also followed the wiki instructions for building an image but there is the first error for me. Running make update gives me the following error: [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~/moko$ make update ( cd bitbake \ ( git branch | egrep -e ' bitbake-om$' /dev/null || \ git checkout -b bitbake-om --track origin/bitbake-om )) ( cd bitbake \ git checkout bitbake-om \ git fetch \ git rebase origin/bitbake-om ) fatal: Needed a single revision invalid upstream origin/bitbake-om make: *** [update-bitbake] Error 1 When building openmoko-qtopia-x11-image it seems to work properly up until it attempts to build qtopia-phone-x11 which throws the errors found at http://pastebin.com/m362d7e90 I've followed the wiki instructions, including cleaning the failed package and trying thrice before complaining. :) I'd really like to build my own images, since it appears the images on the official buildhost are constantly out of date. Any help in resolving these issues would be greatly appreciated! -Kevin Dean ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Enough already (too many posts about forum vs. mail lists)
You really should post that on the forum. :) -Kevin On Thu, Jun 19, 2008 at 6:07 PM, Ron K. Jeffries [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: People, It's time to end the infinite string of emails about using a forum vs not using one. NOW! For $diety's sake, don't those interested in the world's first completely open mobile phone/portable computer have something of substance to chat about? How about discussing the mechanics and schedule for getting OpenMoko so-called ASU to released, stable software? enough already. [smile] Ron K. Jeffries ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: moko running everything as root
On Wed, Jun 18, 2008 at 4:26 PM, Knight Walker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The root/user separation is the most fundamental part of a security policy and here is why. Root is by its nature not only unrestricted but unrestrictable (I think I just made up a new word). A non-root user can only destroy the data that user owns. Now while the conventional desktop, user johndoe owns all his MP3s and pr0n and thus can delete and otherwise destroy them; on the Moko platform, the extensive use of DBus makes destruction of the most important part more difficult. What I'm saying is that (Where possible) a daemon holds the important data (PIM data, calendar data, etc) and is capable of restricting what the user can do with it. The user account communicates with this daemon (via DBus or whatever) and gets the data the user wants while protecting the same. Both being normal users, they are not allowed to step on each other, but if the user is root, then someone with malicious intents can exploit that user account to step on the guardian account, either causing a DoS (crash) or actually manipulating/destroying data. Actually, I think you've just sold me. I'm thinking about Openmoko a lot like I think of a desktop system (having looked at the way the data is on Om currently) that holds everything is a file and while it may be true, from an action perspective passing information through a non-root, non-user daemon exposes that information to the user in a way that's more than simply dealing with a file. That's the goal of the ASU/zhone and it's a management case I wasn't even thinking of. Tradition bit me in the ass, thanks for spelling that one out for me, I like it a lot. :) I guess what I'm actually saying is that moving from an unrestricted account (root) to a restricted account (user) won't automagically buy us protection from all data-loss possibilities, but the mindset of moving to a normal user account is a core principle of a real security architecture. Ideally, something like an SELinux policy would be able to restrict capabilities without requiring different user accounts to do it (e.g. anything running as browser_r cannot talk to anything running as sms_r even though they're the same user). And if you're worried about deleting random data, a fairly simple chown/chmod will protect against that. That stuff doesn't work if the user you're guarding against is root. That's correct if the data is encrypted but encryption isn't what's being tossed around here. If all your data is stored in the clear, and an intruder has physical access to the device, the distinctions between root and non-root user don't matter. That's what I'm saying. That also depends on how long the malicious user has physical access and how fast the malicious user works. If the malicious user has only a few minutes and isn't proficient in cracking OM devices, the changes of damage are less. If the user can't keep good physical control of the device, then yes, they'll get pwn3d eventually, but no one I know of is that careless with their phones anymore. Even the non-geeky don't let their phones out of their sight for more than a few minutes. Now I'm not saying that such careless users don't exist, just that physical access and the root/user differentiation are not the same problem, and one should not override the other. Encryption is another matter, and one I will want addressed before too long. I've got some ideas on how it can be done, but I'll need to see more of the OM system live before I can begin to decide if my ideas are feasible or if they need changing. -KW ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: My blog: Photo Tour Of The ASU
On Tue, Jun 17, 2008 at 2:34 PM, Lally Singh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm glad Raster joined up w/Moko for this. What's that slider view for (the one with three panels)? The equations, zoomed text, giant icon, etc? It's an application launcher. Each application is in a category, and each box on that screen is a category. You can slide each box left and right to have the image fade in and out (you can see mid-slide in one of the screenshots) to change the application and then tap it to launch it. The images are just blown up versions of the icons that you'd see in grid mode. I'm guessing something goes in there, but I have no idea what. -- H. Lally Singh Ph.D. Candidate, Computer Science Virginia Tech ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: moko running everything as root
On Mon, Jun 16, 2008 at 12:23 PM, Robert Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Kevin Dean wrote: In the mobile world, there is NOTHING more important than the user's data. Nothing. And in the mobile world, you can impliment root priv seperations till the cows come home, but it doesn't eliminate the fact that the most vulnerable part of the system is being put at risk still. This is nonsense. You dispute that the user data is the most important part of the mobile device experience? Encrypt the data and have it backed up via policy/service/etc. My previous e-mail has been clear - I WANT security on the device. However, I simply don't beleive that the root/user seperation is the most important consideration in that regard. You tossed out some great security ideas, onces I'd personally put time into doing on my own device, but with all due respect, you're saying my statements are nonsense and then offering solutions that (while they work) aren't what I was saying. Protecting user data is key so encryption and a built-in, fully automated backup system is somethign I think would be a GREAT thing to have. But it doesn't refute my point at all - a non-root user can destroy the most critical part of the system and doesn't need root to do it. Implimenting a root/user seperation itself doesn't mitigate this risk. I agree that this risk needs to be mitigated, I simply don't believe that the root/user split does much to lessen the risks. You cannot separate security from a device this powerful. Hell you cannot separate security from even crappy devices. Hell we now live in an age where frickin printers come with full webservers with ssh/ftp/telnet and are now a security risk as much as any desktop. Despite the common belief, PHYSICAL access to a device DOES NOT GUARANTEE physical access to data. That's correct if the data is encrypted but encryption isn't what's being tossed around here. If all your data is stored in the clear, and an intruder has physical access to the device, the distinctions between root and non-root user don't matter. That's what I'm saying. A good enough key with a proper authentication scheme will keep the frickin NSA busy for 10's of thousands of years. Let's not kid our selves. Security is of the utmost importance ESPECIALLY IN A WIRELESS WORLD. I agree. If you think Bluejacking was nothing, just wait until you start owning these puppies during a walk by - hell, I have plans for making a carrying bag with a full spectrume of equipment and antennas that does nothing BUT sniff out wireless devices in an attempt to own them just for fun. How long do you think an root priviledged device like this would last under such circumstances? The world is getting MORE HAZARDOUS not less, with the full power of laptops only 10 years old or less in our pockets how can anyone think this is not a serious consideration? Rob ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: When it will be possible to buy OpenMoko?
On Mon, Jun 16, 2008 at 12:26 PM, Andy Selby [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There was a post on engadget mobile that suggested some have been released. I cant find it, you got a link? http://www.engadgetmobile.com/2008/06/11/openmoko-freerunner-gets-reviewed-early/ I didn't get this as part of a university release though. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
My blog: Photo Tour Of The ASU
Hi everyone. Over the weekend I took perhaps 50 or so screenshots of the ASU on a Freerunner. A lot of them are repetitive, simply showing all of the options on a given application. But others are interesting and show some new or under-reviewed applications. I've taken those best of images and put them together in a blog post. That post can be read at http://monochromementality.com/index.php/blog/show/Photo-Tour-of-the-ASU.html. I hope people enjoy! ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: My blog: Photo Tour Of The ASU
I was informed that the images on the buildhost (which is what I took all the screenshots of) are out of date. Please use the images as a glimpse into the ASU but not as a status report on it. I'll see if I can follow up once I get a more current build running. On Mon, Jun 16, 2008 at 6:48 PM, Charles Edward Pax [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks for the post. I love screenshots. -Charles On Mon, Jun 16, 2008 at 4:07 PM, Kevin Dean [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi everyone. Over the weekend I took perhaps 50 or so screenshots of the ASU on a Freerunner. A lot of them are repetitive, simply showing all of the options on a given application. But others are interesting and show some new or under-reviewed applications. I've taken those best of images and put them together in a blog post. That post can be read at http://monochromementality.com/index.php/blog/show/Photo-Tour-of-the-ASU.html. I hope people enjoy! ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: moko running everything as root
On Sat, Jun 14, 2008 at 4:25 AM, arne anka [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: will tell you that having those kind of permissions systems when the INTRUDER has physical access to the device is next to pointless. the om is connected via wlan or bluetooth -- thus allowing hacking into it (if it is not posiible right now it will some day). thus the user does not necessarily notice if there's an intruder. second: what ways to boot the om _without_ destroying all data? if you need to hack the password for the root account to be able to manipulate existing data, there's another fence to jump. What benefit does havign things like OPKG SUID give us that having opkg run as root doesn't? only opkg is run, not everything possible. logging in as root opens a world of ways to harm your data, either by accident or deliberately. expoliting suid requires a bug in the program suid'd. User John running sudo rm -rf /* is better than root running rm -rf /* because...? see above. you can configure which commands/programs may be run with sudo. and user john is not every user -- a user able to run sudo needs to belong to a specific group, configurable as well. If you want security, unprivaledges users must NOT EVER be able to run privaledged commands. see above. have various roles. This assumption doesn't exactly hold when the entire filesystem is small enough to be put in one's pocket. the om represents a device more powerfull than the computer linux was developed on. i am not sure i understand you correctly, but for me it sounds like you saying user/group separation is meaningfull for servers only (and only because physical access can be prevented), for end user computers, laptops specifically, it is a waste. if so, you are pretty much alone with this understanding. what bothers me: as far as i understand the vast majority of applications is ported from existing linux distributions or just recompiled -- so, why would one disable the user/group principle the apps obey on their native platform? ubuntu for one works rather well with that wheel/sudo way and even on non-ubuntu systems users are able to run a lot of root applications such as rdate, power off, opkg, etc. w/o beeing root all the time. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: moko running everything as root
Firstly, sorry for the blank reply. Accidentally double clicked and send is in the same spot. :P On Sat, Jun 14, 2008 at 4:25 AM, arne anka [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: only opkg is run, not everything possible. logging in as root opens a world of ways to harm your data, either by accident or deliberately. expoliting suid requires a bug in the program suid'd. I understand how and why permission seperations exist. :) What I'm saying is that if we sit back and evaluate how this device is going to be used in the vast majority of cases, you'll realize that unlike a desktop or server system, the data that a non-root user can delete is as bad, or perhaps even WORSE than destroying the system integrity itself. I'm not saying we should abandon security as a concern. But realistically speaking, a mobile device DOES have different concerns than a desktop or a server. Focusing on system internals on Openmoko while ignoring the fact that remote users can destroy vital, NON root, important data is just busy work. User John running sudo rm -rf /* is better than root running rm -rf /* because...? see above. you can configure which commands/programs may be run with sudo. I understand this. Take a step back for a second and really evaluate the device's marketed purpose though. The point of sudo and the like are to ensure that a non-root user can't hose the system, right? A non-root user might need to be able to install a printer so you can give that user access to CUPS commands. In the traditional UNIX file system, having /usr destroyed is signifigantly bigger of an issue than having /tmp destroyed in most cases. In a network environment, you defend the important stuff dearly, and accept a certain level of risk with every little blurb you give to a non-root user. In the mobile world, there is NOTHING more important than the user's data. Nothing. And in the mobile world, you can impliment root priv seperations till the cows come home, but it doesn't eliminate the fact that the most vulnerable part of the system is being put at risk still. Please understand I'm not saying Ignore security, I'm a big fan of security. :) I'm simply trying to look at this in a way that's suited to the use cases rather than tradition. If you want security, unprivaledges users must NOT EVER be able to run privaledged commands. see above. Perhaps I needed to make this distinction. When I said a user in this case, I don't mean a line in /etc/passwd but a flesh and blood person. You running sudo some-command is a user running a privaledged command. Sudo is a way to allow users to have SOME of the powers of root, while limiting them from using others. If UNIX user john has sudo permissions to remove packages, and that UNIX account is comprimised, it is AS bad as of root itself had a shell on the box - the intruder on the system can hose it. i am not sure i understand you correctly, but for me it sounds like you saying user/group separation is meaningfull for servers only (and only because physical access can be prevented), for end user computers, laptops specifically, it is a waste. if so, you are pretty much alone with this understanding. I'm not saying that at all. I'm quite happy that I can log in a kevin and not root on my desktop system. I AM saying, however, that on a mobile device the value of each chunk of the filesystem is different than on a desktop workstation, a laptop and CERTAINLY a server. And taking into account traditional things because they're traditional isn't always the most suited solution to the environment. what bothers me: as far as i understand the vast majority of applications is ported from existing linux distributions or just recompiled -- so, why would one disable the user/group principle the apps obey on their native platform? Because the system they obey is designed for an environment where protection of the system is more important than protection of non-root data. ubuntu for one works rather well with that wheel/sudo way and even on non-ubuntu systems users are able to run a lot of root applications such as rdate, power off, opkg, etc. w/o beeing root all the time. If you check the Ubuntu mailing lists back to the days of Warty you'll see that there were people objecting to the use of sudo for the same reason that people are calling for root/user split. Allowing a comprimised non-root user to have access to system internals was heresy! Objectivly speaking, no system on a public network is secure - security is simply the amount of risk you're willing to take for the sake of access. Ubuntu chose to open up the sudo risk (and as I said, even though it's common, it's a procedure that still spark controversy) because, in the end, it was deemed that that amount of risk had acceptable gains. The reason that those gains were acceptable on a desktop and not a server is the same arguement I'm making here - the use case puts user data (which is still at risk when controlled by a non-root
Re: OT: Nokia expects open source developers to accept things like DRM, commercial IP rights, and SIM locks.
On Fri, Jun 13, 2008 at 7:50 PM, Lorn Potter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Considering English is not his native language... I am sure something did not come through as he intended. I think what he means is this: Businesses are not yet ready to fully embrace open source as the community see's it. He also means that the open source community should learn WHY things are the way they are. You don't have to agree with those ideas, but knowledge about it doesn't hurt anybody and could benefit by enabling us to help change things. Remember, Nokia might be one company, but it is made by individuals. A lot of them. Who have differing ideas about things. Thanks for the sanity reminder, Lorn. While I can see why this would be alarming, even if a certain company isn't ready to embrace a philosophy, they ARE writing and releasing software that is free software (open source, if that's your moniker) for the time being and usually Actions speak louder than words. There are companies much worse - still totally unwilling to embrace different paradigms. Nokia might be dropping setting up minefields, but at least they're saying There are minefields!'. Free Software works better in developement and ethics and some naysayers haven't stopped free software before so don't lend too much weight to this. ;) ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: moko running everything as root
On Fri, Jun 13, 2008 at 10:10 PM, Joerg Reisenweber [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My opinion is averse. There's no valid reason to abandon the very simple concept of users, groups, and permissions, just to have an easy start on development (fixing apps later on is a PITA). If you don't care from beginning, you'll end up where Vista is right now. Where is the problem to chmod any file in /dev, /sys, etc. to do rdate, power off, opkg etc (ok, for opkg I myself would prefer to be asked for root pw). The difference, as I see it, is we can be sure that a user has the capacity to physically disable the device. Having user seperations makes sense when you have some restricted users and some root users. Anybody who has dealt with security in a mission critical situation will tell you that having those kind of permissions systems when the INTRUDER has physical access to the device is next to pointless. Or make apps SUID! Do we really have to repeat this annoyance yet *another* time? What benefit does havign things like OPKG SUID give us that having opkg run as root doesn't? The reason for seperation of privaledges is to prevent an unauthorized person from ruining the system (a seceretary deleting anything ending in .conf because she doesn't use those files on a network server...) by an unprivaledged user. If you look at studies on why Linux isn't hit by viruses you'll see the root/user seperation featured as #1. #2 reason is diversity - A virus undetected on Red Hat might not be invisible on Debian and the work needed to ensure that was the case is about equal to ensuring that every device driver ever written for Windows was bug free (i.e next to impossible) If the user *really* wants to run these apps in the way you assumed (being pissed off to relogin as root), why not use ageold mechanisms like sudoers, wheel etc? User John running sudo rm -rf /* is better than root running rm -rf /* because...? If you want security, unprivaledges users must NOT EVER be able to run privaledged commands. In a corporate environment, it is safe to assume that all of the people using the filesystem will have various roles. This assumption doesn't exactly hold when the entire filesystem is small enough to be put in one's pocket. To me it seems this is an *extreme* inattentiveness of developers, even worse a ridiculous one. As I see it, it's being realistic when using technology designed with restrictions to suit a multi-user environment in a situation where only a single user. In a networked and shared environment, the deletion of a single user's browser preferences isn't too important as long as the integrity of the majority of the network exists. In a pure single user situation, the integrity of the user's data IS network integrity. Feel free to ask an iPhone user what would be worse, the entire dataset of their device being erased, or only their phone numbers, pictures, music, settings and so on. in both cases, that user would NEVER use another device from that company. When the user is more important than integrity there is NO way that traditional UNIX file system permissions add a layer of security. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: SIM cards for Freerunner (was Free Runner price vs iphone 3G price)
On Thu, Jun 12, 2008 at 12:11 PM, Stroller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 12 Jun 2008, at 03:19, Kevin Dean wrote: On Wed, Jun 11, 2008 at 7:35 PM, Joe Pfeiffer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If I don't get a phone, I shouldn't have to pay for one. Walk into T-Mobile or ATT and buy a phone and sign up for a contract. Write down how much you pay. Walk out, put that phone in your car and walk back into the store and sign up for the same contract without a phone. Write THAT price down. Compare and you'll see they're the same. I think your replies to this thread started when I said OMG! WTF!?!?!? in reply to a statement like that. Here in the UK the prices would certainly NOT be the same. Checking ATT's website it does indeed seem the situation is different in the US. I went to the website, clicked the shop for tariffs (shop for plans?) link and was unable to complete the checkout process without selecting a handset. To a European, this seems about as antiquated as being required to rent your landline handset from the phone company (which indeed was the case when I was a child, 25 years ago). I'm surprised that ATT doesn't list that on their site. I honestly haven't checked their (or T-Mobile, my provider of choice) website for being able to do that. The thing is, people frequently go Cell carriers are doing this abusive thing! and that gets me a bit annoyed. It is more common to buy the phone/service bundle, but it's not the ONLY way to. I went to T-Mobile this weekend to purchase a SIM card for my Freerunner and the only question asked was Is it unlocked (ensuring it's compatible). There was a SNAFU there because this was a newly opened store who didn't have the activation kits, but it was a service they clearly offered and even have pamphlets in their holders. You're not arguing you shouldn't have to pay for a phone, you're arguing that you should be allowed to dictate the level of profit someone else's company is able to make on transactions. Hmmmn... IMO you're taking Mr Pfeiffer's should a bit literally here. Certainly from my point of view, I am astounded at the opportunity the US carriers appear to be missing out on. They could easily advertise got a handset from your old contract? Save 25% on you monthly bills - try our new SIM-only tariffs! Think of how the customers would come flocking to them. There are other logistical issues to that, and while it's slowly changing, it's not possible to ignore them. In most of Europe, GSM is standard. In the US, two of the four largest cellular providers use CDMA so for most people making that claim would come with so many caveats that it would be hard to handle even in the best case. In Verizon's case, for instance, they will be transitioning to GSM from CDMA soon. It would be a bit counter productive for them to encourage people to bring their existing phones over to a network when they're phasing down that very technology. There's also the fact that most people are in a contract. There would have to be SIGNIFIGANT savings to justify most of that for customers. Typical early termination fees are between $150 and $300 per handset. A 25% monthly savings on my plan would save me very little money in the long run ($150 cancellation fee per handset and my plan is a family plan where my wife and I share minutes. To cancel that service, I'd need to terminate 2 phones, costing me $300 for a two year savings of $360). There's also the consumerist mentality here. I'm not sure if it exists in the UK, or if so, how strongly, but it is common (especially among the younger demographic) to change phones frequently to have the latest and greatest. It's the same reason the iPhone 2 is going to sell despite the fact that the iPhone is still functional and even still leading the pack in terms of appeal. The scenario you describe means that whenever one finishes one's contract the old mobile phone is garbage. It's chucked away and becomes landfill. I can't see how this benefits anyone except the foreign manufacturers of phones. The carriers have to stock, inventory finance handset stock, and the consumer ends up paying more. It just seems insane to me, and that's what surprised me. As I said above, in many many many cases it is the phone, NOT the cellular service, that gets people interested in service. ATT wasn't particularly appealing but the iPhone WAS. There are some pragmatic people who buy a phone and use it until it dies. A large chunk upgrade their phones before their contracts expire for some new or improved feature, or because it comes in a new color. Even when two carriers have the same phone models, there are often exclusives - Verizon had a pink RAZR for a year before anyone else did for instance. (OTOH: I now understand that the iPhone truly does only cost $199, if one prefers monthly billing to PAYG SIM cards). Perhaps that's another difference that matters. Trying to buy my SIM this past weekend, even though
Re: Why not use forum?
It's interesting how much divide this issue causes, I think. :) I'm personally a fan of fora, but I don't really care too strongly either way. Some people REALLY like mailing lists and some people REALLY like fora and never the twain shall meet. :P On Thu, Jun 12, 2008 at 12:37 PM, Richard Reichenbacher [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: We went over this right around the same time last year. The general consensus was that forums are the devil, mailing lists are good and anyone that thinks otherwise is a complete moron. Oh and prepare to get torn a new one for having a differing opinion. On Jun 12, 2008, at 8:30 AM, Leonti Bielski wrote: Hi! I was wondering - why are we not using forum for community? It's much better to view, you can subscribe and unsubscribe to the topics you want and etc. The main Personally I don't like mailing list because it's not that comfortable and I can see no advatages of using mailing list instead of forum? Can anyone explain to me why we can't install ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Wireless providers in the US
On Wed, Jun 11, 2008 at 1:03 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Could those of you in the US, who have the prior phone,and who plan to get the new one, share what providers you are using? T-Mobile. Been with them 5 or 6 years and zero complaints. Also, any details would be great. I am going to be leaving Sprint, and ditching my Treo 650 for the new phone. Dropped Motorola RAZRs for a Neo 1973 and Neo Freerunner. It is very exciting, but I am a little lost as to what all my options are. I'm assuming for a moment you're planning on purchasing an Openmoko phone since that's what this list is about. Any cellular carrier that uses GSM works with the Freerunner and 1973. This pretty much means anything BUT Sprint or Verizon (and Verizon will be transitioning to GSM in 2009 in the metro DC area, from what I've heard). Assuming the mobile companies don't restrict phones they're not familiar with, every contract plan or prepaid plan should work. It is further complicated by the way in the US everyone seems to offer regionally based plans, rather than having the same plans available throughout the country. I have to say I disagree unless you're interested only in a small, local based provider which Sprint is NOT. T-Mobile and ATT both offer nationwide plans and the plans are the same coast to coast. I am in the D.C. area. A friend of mine lives in northwest and T-Mobile doesn't work well for her (though Verizon is starting to fail in her building too). I get excellent service in Frederick, Alexandria, Gaithersburg, Reston, Herndon, Sterling. Come to think of it... Other than being in like the Baltimore tunnel, I don't think I've ever NOT had service and I drove out to Jersey a few months ago to buy my car. Thanks P.S. My intended uses are as a phone, as a modem or tethering device for my laptop, I support Openmoko but let me give my realistic opinion - the decision to use 2G and include wifi isn't the best for Americans in metro areas. From what I gather, data over cellular is still pretty expensive in Europe so the inclusion of Wifi benefits the most people there. In the USA where unlimited data plans are quite affordable, where people commute signifigantly longer distances and cellular coverage is more reliable and more readily available than wifi coverage lack of 3G sucks really REALLY badly. If you're tethering for cellular data connection, a Freerunner will disappoint you. The fact that there's not a cellular connection fast enough to support streaming audio on my daily commute is serious enough that I questioned if I'd pay money for a Freerunner. as a web browser when I am on the road, for calendar and such, for texting. I am interested in GPS features as well. A Freerunner would work well for all of those, and with the GPS being tacked on, I'm not sure I can think of many devices that would combine all of those features. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Dual SIM?
The Freerunner has a single SIM slot. On Wed, Jun 11, 2008 at 2:14 PM, Adilson Oliveira [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi. I'm quite sure the answer is no but as I didn't find any definitive answer for that I decided to ask: does the openmoko hardware support 2 SIM cards? []s Adilson. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFIUBYZ2cB5Bt7H7YARAranAJ42l1mQeDd8z/HlYC9bcqTptAI1UgCgoJZC XRsqcU6XHall3sYaq42jgcs= =tW0/ -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: SIM cards for Freerunner (was Free Runner price vs iphone 3G price)
On Wed, Jun 11, 2008 at 3:33 PM, Joe Pfeiffer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Stroller writes: On 11 Jun 2008, at 15:44, Joe Pfeiffer wrote: Did you get a lower price on your contract than you would have with a phone? Yes, they would have let me pay for a subsidized phone without giving me the phone... Where the heck are you? To the British it is quite *obvious* that a contract without a phone is cheaper. US. To me, it's quite obvious that a contract without a phone *should* be cheaper, but that's a long way from is (it actually worked out for the best, since I've had a working phne all these months as a result). I'm an American and your statement confuses me. Why is it obvious that a contract without a phone should be cheaper? The service (cellular connectivity for voice and/or data) is the same service no matter what phone you have. In the US, the price of service contracts doesn't change. The price of PHONES does when you agree to commit to a service contract but the service contract doesn't. The most obvious example of this is that one can choose how much to pay up front - on can choose the phone for free with one set of tariffs, or pay £75 on purchase and get the same number of minutes for £10 a month less (on an 18-month contract, for example). One can also get much cheaper contracts when no phone purchase is involved. Not sure if you're confusing cause and effect here or if Brits just look at cellular service differently than Americans. You are implying that the contract is the monthly service of voice/data connectivity and a handset. In the US, ONLY the monthly service of voice/data connectivity is contracted. It seems to me that what you're ACTUALLY doing when you make your purchase is purchasing a phone at some price, agreeing to a service level (monthly voice/data) and then financing the cost of that device through your monthly bill. By paying the £75 up front you're simply paying for the phone and NOT paying the cost of it in installments monthly. But from how I see it the service that is purchased (voice/data connectivity) remains the same price. I haven't seen anything like that here. The plan costs what it costs; you can pay varying amounts up front for different phones. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Wireless providers in the US
On Wed, Jun 11, 2008 at 4:09 PM, ian douglas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ian douglas wrote: ... but not at ATT plans are available coast-to-coast. Got it! This was something I wasn't aware of. I've lived in several states over the past handful of years and the plans I've had have all been the same? I would think it's actually HARDER not to offer some plan in other areas. Every plan offered on the website have been offered in stores. I've seen smaller carriers (like Bluegrass Wireless in Kentucky) offer plans that didn't cover the nation, but never large carriers offer geographically limited plans. How odd, thanks for pointing that out. at = all Lack of sleep = typos. My bad. -id ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: SIM cards for Freerunner (was Free Runner price vs iphone 3G price)
On Wed, Jun 11, 2008 at 6:41 PM, Robert Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Kevin Dean wrote: I'm an American and your statement confuses me. Why is it obvious that a contract without a phone should be cheaper? The service (cellular connectivity for voice and/or data) is the same service no matter what phone you have. In the US, the price of service contracts doesn't change. The price of PHONES does when you agree to commit to a service contract but the service contract doesn't. Which part of a portion of the contract pays for you phone ... phone ISN'T FREE, YOU ARE FINANCING THE PURCHASE OF THE PHONE VIA THE CONTRACT is hard to understand? I understand that statement ENTIRELY. Now that we're done beating down straw men, where have I ONCE mentioned anything about a free phone (with the exception of the use of quoting a previous poster, in responce to his use of the term) ? I have not. The average person walks into a cellular retailer, purchases a phone (A phone that is clearly marked as costing, say $199) signs up for the two year contract and recieves a discount on the phone and begins a service subscription. To say that he's getting a free phone is stupid - he got a $199 phone as a bonus for signing up for a contractual service (a voluntary service, by the way!). Did he pay for the phone? No. What he did was reduce the phone company's profit margin by making them expend more money in order to gain him as a customer of the recurring subscription for vioce/data services. If I walk into a retail outlet for my mobile service provider, I can pay for a phone WITHOUT service - I get no credits or refunds from the cellular provider. I pay for the phone. I can also have my OWN phone and walk into a cellular service provider and sign up for a contract of video/data service. The price I pay for that service is the same as the price paid by the person who took the discount on the phone. I am simply creating a higher profit revenue for that company in the process. -Kevin Why do americans have such a hard time grasping this? Rob ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: SIM cards for Freerunner (was Free Runner price vs iphone 3G price)
On Wed, Jun 11, 2008 at 7:35 PM, Joe Pfeiffer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Because the price of the free phone is bundled into the price of the contract. I don't think so. The only thing that changes in the deal is the profit margin of the company. The costs of the mobile carrier also indirectly include the costs of electricity but if I said I'm not buying electricity from you so I shouldn't pay the mark up from electricity I would just sound really really stupid. I'm well aware that the mobile providers pays for the phone and as a cost of doing business, charges more for their products. If I don't get a phone, I shouldn't have to pay for one. Walk into T-Mobile or ATT and buy a phone and sign up for a contract. Write down how much you pay. Walk out, put that phone in your car and walk back into the store and sign up for the same contract without a phone. Write THAT price down. Compare and you'll see they're the same. You're not arguing you shouldn't have to pay for a phone, you're arguing that you should be allowed to dictate the level of profit someone else's company is able to make on transactions. Not quite -- you're also committed to pay the inflated price long enough to pay for the phone, And as long as that company pays taxes. And as long as that company advertises. And as long as that company complies with minimum wage laws. I am aware that when a company spends money, in order to be profitable they will reclaim those costs they will increase the price of their products. I have no problem with a company making profit. In fact, I would strongly PERFER it because companies that provide me services tend to vanish when they don't make money. or pay for the phone under the guise of an early termination fee. You entered into the contract of your own free will. Entering into that contract is merely claiming that your word has value. Why do you complain about agreeing to something and then being held to that agreement? The terms are stated up front, if you find them disagreeable negotiate the terms. If you can't, don't enter into the agreement. The termination fee covers the loss to the company's profit margin when you fail to complete your payment agreement. They do this so that it's easier for customers to get cellular service. The cost of putting up towers, hiring support staff, providing them with bathrooms, purchasing computers, hiring programmers and engineers and all of that is not small. To recoup that cost, they need to make a certain amount of money. Putting a phone in the hands of people who don't have phones ALSO costs money, and they need to ensure that if that customer fails to generate profit for them, they will not face a loss from doing business with that customer. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: SIM cards for Freerunner
On Wed, Jun 11, 2008 at 8:24 PM, Robert Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Oh okay so its semantics then. In the USA, the contract is for the service ONLY. That's why I asked in the beginning if we had a different definition of what it meant to contract. It's a lot like a grocery store that offers buy one get one free kind of sales, they create incentive to purchase by providing another product. The price of the service (video/voice) doesn't change depending on those incentives. You can still buy ONE product (in some areas... he he. Most people comply with laws and different areas interpret buy one get one free differently) at the same price even though by taking them up on the offer you gain more in the end if you do. It's a semantic issue perhaps. English has no word for Umami, the kind of taste sensation you feel when biting into a piece of cheddar cheese. Prior to the assymilation of the term deja vu from French, there was no term for the sensation of having done the same thing before. Mere words goes a LONG way towards understanding; sometimes nuances matter. *NOD* :) Rob ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: SIM cards for Freerunner (was Free Runner price vs iphone 3G price)
Please note this is an OFF LIST reply, since it is off topic for Openmoko mailing lists. On Wed, Jun 11, 2008 at 9:02 PM, Lowell Higley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If I make an observation.. I am an American by birth but have lived all over the world.. In the middle of the Pacific, Korea, and now Europe (again). One of the things I have noticed is that the laws in Europe tend to protect the consumer whereas the laws in the US tend to protect big business. Why do you instantly assume there two sides are opposed to each other? Now, let me say I agree that corporations (definition: a legal entity recognized by the government for the purpose of shielding the individual for personal responsibillity for their actions) are in general a bad thing since it means if a person does something bad while conducting business they don't suffer penalties. If, however, a person running an honest business manages to be big, I see nothing wrong at ALL with them. Businesses (big AND small) provide services and products to people. They don't use violence to get what they want (even Microsoft doesn't send the police or military to your house for refusing to buy their licenses). If people said I don't like how you conduct business and I refuse to give you my money! those businesses (large and small) would stop doing that thing because they want to stay in business! I could give many examples but I think this whole contact vs. no contract discussion is a perfect example. imho. I was raised as a liberal Democrat. That said, I can sit back and (with the best of them) argue the liberal perspective about how big business takes advantage of the little guy/working class. I was also raised to believe that I should question everything and not accept what other people tell me without some proof. In EVERY arguement against big business there is one key factor - the government. How big might Microsoft be if the government (which funds every government school and university in just about every nation of the world) didn't pick teachers who demanded their assignments be submitted in .doc format? How many business might exist worldwide if the government didn't mandate licenses and zoning and all kinds of other things that prevent people (who create wealth by simply existing!) who have very little money from starting honest businesses and earning money by providing services and goods to people? How many deaths might be avoided if the government let people and their doctors determine if a medication was safe enough for their specific situation? Just a personal observation... shoot me down if you like. I don't mean to shoot you down. I just find it disconcerning how many people attack business owners, demand regulation which forces up prices and reduces control and than blame businesses for increased prices and decreased control. Hopefully some people will critically evaluate things... ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Cleared to start Mass production
Excellent! Thanks for the update! On Thu, Jun 5, 2008 at 11:12 AM, steve [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The latest update I have from the factory indicates that mass Production ( that means running the SMT line without stopping to check stuff every two seconds) has been CLEARED TO START. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dennis Wollersheim Sent: Monday, June 02, 2008 9:16 PM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: Re: OpenMOKO availbility -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 It will be available soon (within one month would be my guess). Does anyone else have a better guess? You cannot book an order at present. I reckon they will be able to ship to Pakistan. Cheers Dennis Masoom Alam wrote: Hi every one, I wanted to ask, that when the latest version of the openmoko will be available (seems a stupid question, as we can see a lot of posts on the mailing list :)). Actually, I dont want to wait for one year this time, therefore asking this question. Plus, is there is any possiblity at the moment to book an order for me in advance now? Plus, I want to ship the latest version to Pakistan, any recommendation in this regard? Regards, MM Alam -- -- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community - -- - --- Dennis Wollersheim Lecturer, Health Information Management La Trobe University Bundoora Victoria 3086 Room HS1:110 (03) 9479 1763 (bh) 0414 529 454 (mobile) http://homepage.cs.latrobe.edu.au/dewoller - --- -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with MultiZilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFIRMWF41ROt9TlFkoRAhFTAJ9DvMdVl2bbtGUHJFG2nR8Dde9mOgCg/KlF E4wU+XXesXAVFoo0dvnJLck= =GOB0 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Yummy new CPU/GPU combo
On Tue, Jun 3, 2008 at 9:51 AM, flexd [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) skrev: On Mon, 2 Jun 2008 23:12:30 -0400 Lally Singh [EMAIL PROTECTED] babbled: the day nvidia comes with open drivers for this... we can begin to take an interest :) To be honest, (i myself do not really care if the drivers are open or not, i do not have the require level of geekyness to change them :p) i couldnt care less if the drivers are open or not. I'm not a programmer, but I have to fully disagree with you. Carsten IS a hacker, and I trust that if the source code where devouring children that he'd make it public. If not him then Zeke, or if not him... Me not being able to program it doesn't mean that someone else who cares can't. That's a level of trust that I gain from Free Software, and I'd not change that. Aslong as we/someone could run a opensource OS on it, such as OM, i'd love it! I want the ability to change everything, but having a different cpu/gpu driver isnt exactly a high priority. Ofcourse this would be great, but a closed driver will do fine if my phone can have specs as good as that! I think about that more and more (I traded a quad core Opteron system with 10 GB of RAM for an Intel Core 2 Duo with 4 so that I could use the GPLed Intel 3D driver (before I leanrned that GLX was technically non-free). The more I think on it, the more I realize that a non-free firmware on the system mainboard actually scares me a bit MORE than a non-free application in userspace. Not only that, but how in the HELL can you call a project Openmoko with a tagline of Free your phone and then turn your back on openness and freedom? Regards Kristoffer Seen this? http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/7430768.stm http://www.engadget.com/2008/06/02/nvidia-launches-tegra-hopes-to-change-the-smartphone-mid-game/ The Tegra line will be all-in-one, integrated systems on a chip, containing an 800MHz ARM CPU, GeForce GPU, image processor, HD video processor, and controllers for all other aspects of core operations (memory, USB ports, communication) -- in a package about the size of a dime. The range will come in two varieties to start -- the Tegra 600 and the Tegra 650. Both chips can run games like Quake 3 with full filters and anti-aliasing at rates of more than 40 FPS, and will support 1080p HDMI, WSXGA+ LCD or CRT, and NTSC/PAL TV outs. It's still ARM based, so it should work with OM. It'll run Android if you want, and may end up with a slightly smaller phone, as it integrates the GPU. -- H. Lally Singh Ph.D. Candidate, Computer Science Virginia Tech ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: FoxyTag
If you're speeding, you're already breaking the law. Good people have an ethical imperative to ignore and oppose unjust law. I'd love to see a Trapster[1] app on Openmoko. I was made aware of this project because of the Dash GPS-device which was made in association with FIC/Openmoko, so I've got my fingers crossed. [1] http://www.trapster.com/ On Mon, Jun 2, 2008 at 2:11 PM, Pawel Kowalak [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 2008-06-02, at 18:47, Bastian Muck wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Be careful with such software. In germany e.g. such Software is forbidden. Are you sure about that? According to FAQ: Laws usually prohibit radars detectors and system that perturb their functions. But FoxyTag is not a radar detector. It simply gives information according to your current position. For example in Poland radar detectors are also forbidden, but almost every GPS navigation system has speed cameras database. BR, Pawel ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Question about future devices (GTA03,04)
This is GTA03 - http://walkingice.twbbs.org/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=715 On Mon, Jun 2, 2008 at 6:44 PM, Sergey Volkov [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello, openmoko community. I have a question regarding future products of Openmoko. Wiki says http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GTA that GTA03 is actually HXD8, a car navigation system. This claim is based on a post by Michael Lauer, http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2008-May/017061.html. But IMHO that inference is not obvious: Martin Bernreuther writes: looking at the Wiki, there're also speculations about another Neo-like device: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/HXD8 This seems not to correspond to the GTA04. (Maybe HXD8==GTA03?) Is there a more complete roadmap about the Neo-Productline somewhere? And Michael Lauer replies: device: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/HXD8 This cat is long out of the box. It's the Dash Express device. For me the actual question of GTA03 vs. GTA04 remains unanswered. Also, Michael Lauer recently posted http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/openmoko-kernel/2008-June/003020.html following on the openmoko-kernel list: I don't want to talk too much about future products, but I would vote against going away from NAND for 03 -- there's too many business risks. 03 is about evolution. 04 is revolution. This makes the issue completely unclear, esp. GTA03 part. AFAIK (my opinion stems from the discussion which took place in May on the hardware list) GTA04 is a brand new device based on a more advanced SoC. But it's very hard to find any info on 03. Could anybody unveil the GTA03 mystery? What are the hardware specs, will the shared-slow-videoRAM-bus issue be fixed (for me it's the main reason to wait for the next device)? Any comments from openmoko employees are especially welcome ! (: PS don't kick me too hard, it's my first post to this list (; ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Freerunner test
On Fri, May 30, 2008 at 11:40 PM, Mike Montour [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Kevin Dean wrote: Unscientific testing, yes. The echo is still there. :) s/)/(/ Can you please add a note about this to bug #1267? How bad was the echo - enough that a normal person would complain about it, or something that would only be noticed if they listened carefully? I've updated that bug. :) I'm getting annoying GSM buzz on the Freerunner when using certain SIM cards (I need to confirm this with more SIM cards). A note about this on bug #883 would also be good. I'd like to reconfirm this before reporting, or at least kill my theory before reporting on it and creating a false lead. It seems that the SIM itself is important. Sitting at my computer desk and switching the card in my 1973 for the one in my Freerunner causes the Freerunner to buzz but doesn't affect the 1973. Now, it's possible there's something else (perhaps my wireless mouse, my speaker system, my monitor) actually causing this, so I'd like to test the same in different environments and buy a 4th SIM card to another control. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Freerunner test
On Fri, May 30, 2008 at 4:35 PM, ian douglas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yorick Matthys wrote: I don't know how to post on the mailing list (shame on me, I know...) although i read every mail that gets posted on them, so I write it directly to your e-mail address. If you're subscribed to the mailing list, just address messages to community@lists.openmoko.org and everyone will get a copy. could you also give an indication for how long it takes to get a gps fix (cold/warm start) ? Or about the audio quality with a standard headset? I understand completely if you can't be bothered with these questions, if so, please excuse me; it's just I'm so damn anxious to get my hands on a freerunner :-). I haven't done any audio or GPS tests on my Freerunner yet. Have any of the other Freerunner testers done anything in this regard? Unscientific testing, yes. The echo is still there. :) I'm getting annoying GSM buzz on the Freerunner when using certain SIM cards (I need to confirm this with more SIM cards). It sounds as if the Freerunner has the capability to be louder but calls seem quieter (though this is configurable). I've done nothing with GPS since the ASU doesn't have a functional GPS app yet but I might poke at it with a 2007.02 image and TangoGPS this weekend. If not, I'll try some testing this weekend if I can figure out how to get the GPS working. Ian ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: My experience with the Freerunner
Yeah, there are GTA01 images for the ASU, I've tested them. Not too much to report, ASU is almost totally non-functional but it gives a good view of it's potential. I planned on doing video over this weekend but I got sick for the first time in almost three years. *growls* On Tue, May 27, 2008 at 3:48 PM, Lorn Potter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: steve wrote: Ian got a phone with the Apps based on GTK. everyone will. However, I wanted to let the community see the NEXT STEP. So the next step ( ASU) is now public. you need a GTA02 to appreciate it. and even then it's a raw first look at pre alpha software. Actually, I believe they started making images for gta01 as well. http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily/neo1973/deploy/glibc/images/neo1973/ They are the Openmoko-openmoko-qtopia-x11-image files. Be sure to also update your kernel. -- Lorn 'ljp' Potter Software Engineer, Systems Group, MES, Trolltech ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: software load for first mfg run of Freerunner? Is ASU what ships?
On Sun, May 25, 2008 at 3:35 PM, Ron K. Jeffries [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am NOT asking if mass production has started. I am asking if OpenMoko has frozen a release to load into the microSD cards. It seems to me that the unit can come off the line, and that one of the final steps before packing would be to load the software. Firstly, yes, the software has been chosen. It's one of the older versions of the 2007.2 stack, the one you're used to if you have a 1973 or if you've toyed with Qemu in the past year. This will get you basic phone calls, SMS, a limited media player and so on. Secondly, and while this is nit-picky, the software isn't on the microSD card (though you CAN boot software installed on the SD card) its in NAND Flash. The reason I mention this is because both the Freerunner and the 1973 include a microSD card of 512MB, a size most people would find to small for everyday use once you start using it as a digital music player, a storage device for pictures et cetera. You can install a microSD of your own into it without having to do any software copying before you boot it the first time. :) Is ASU the* ship[ping s/w load? yes I know people can and will download new s/w. but you'd hope that the Freerunner as shipped would not require an immediate s/w reload. The software that ships to developers will not be the software that mainstream users will have installed. For a mainstream device, making the user install the software is dumb. That said, between the developer release and mainstream release the software (ASU) will be developed and improved upon so rapidly that it's possible that by the time the device is actually in your hand that the ASU would have also become usable enough to move to and poke at and report bugs on. Or maybe I'm being too old skool ??? -- Ron K. Jeffries http://blog.eronj.com ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: sales tax on freerunners
There's no American tax. I was chatting with a friend from Croatia who was confused by how American sales tax works because apparently it's more common elsewhere (or particularly in Europe) to roll the sales tax (VAT?) into the advertised price of the good. In America, each state has it's own sales tax laws (not all states have sales tax) which only applies to goods sold within the state. Americans suffer no sales taxes on the national level (yet...). Furthermore, when I bought my Neo 1973 it appeared on my debit card as a purchase from FIC's Taiwan headquarters and NOT the California location where it shipped from so I wasn't charged a direct tax for that purchase. Of course, somewhere along the line, the price was inflated as some government skimmed off the top of commerce, but that's factored into the quoted price, and I'm sure you're asking only about taxes applied directly to the end consumer (in this case, you). On Sun, May 25, 2008 at 5:02 PM, Robin Paulson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: while i was looking up the gst/duty i'll have to pay for importing my freerunner, this occurred to me - is american/californian/whatever sales tax included already in the price of the phone? will i be taxed twice, or will your local tax only be applied for local purchases? this might seem like a dumb question, but i've bought plenty of stuff from another country where the seller included tax even though it's being shipped abroad ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Qtopia Vs. GTK or both?
On Sat, May 24, 2008 at 10:59 AM, Marcel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Am Samstag 24 Mai 2008 14:47:03 schrieb rakshat hooja: I am not to sure how many people have seen the Neo software stack diagram on the wiki but after looking at it there really should not be a GTK Vs Qtopia argument any more. But I do wonder how Android fits in? http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/NeoSoftwareStack Rakshat Isn't this diagram outdated? Yep. http://www.vanille-media.de/images/OpenmokoFramework.png -Marcel ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: My blog, Freerunner FIrst Impressions and some pics
Having had a chance to briefly poke around at the ASU, I think that's a great choice. :) On Sat, May 24, 2008 at 2:10 PM, steve [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: All of the initial phones that ship from Openmoko.com are planned to ship with the legacy version of the Openmoko Stack and it's GTK applications. The base set of applications, dialer, SMS, and contacts, have been released to manufacturing. So anyone who wants to take this release and build on it is free to do so. We will also make available for download a new set of applications and QTopia. I don't have a final release date or gold master date on those applications, but what we have shown people in the ASU is definitely pre alpha. Until the new software is ready for manufacturing release the phones will ship with the familiar old stack. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kevin Dean Sent: Friday, May 23, 2008 12:10 AM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: Re: My blog, Freerunner FIrst Impressions and some pics On Fri, May 23, 2008 at 12:43 AM, Kosa [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Awesome! Thank you very much. No problem. :) What about the software? Did it came with QTopia? It actually came installed with an older version of the Openmoko Stack, with the familiar GTK applications. It didn't work very well and it's since been erased. :) I am under the impression that the version shipped once it's on sale will have a small set of Qtopia based applications working and that updates will be released shortly after that to add functionality. So, what came installed on the one I have probably won't be installed on the ones purchased from Openmoko.com or from a reseller. And sorry if I'me getting it wrong (my english is not very good) but first you wrote no accesories and next you wrote it came with a headset and the laser/led/pens stylus. Ain't those accesories? I wrote The Freerunner doesn't come without accessories, however. which is probably a bit confusing. :) My apologies. This means it DID come with some. It is not lacking accessories is probably a more clear way to phrase that. Well, I have a lot of questions, but I think I'll better let those who know how to ask make them. You're doing well enough. :) Any questions you have might help me decide what ends up in the reviews I write, so I'd appreciate the input. :) Thanks again Kosa - Un mundo mejor es posible- Kevin Dean escribió: I recieved my Openmoko Freerunner sample this morning via DHL, and like I did with the Neo1973, I took lots of pictures and blogged about it. Some of the pictures aren't the greatest (poor lighting in my bedroom and a photographer I am not!) but they get the idea across. The write up also gives a few tidbits of opinion on some of the changes that seem to get overlooked. Anyway, the writeup can be read at: http://monochromementality.com/index.php/blog/show/Day-One-Openmoko-Freerunn er.html -Kevin Dean ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Re[2]: Video of production device?
On Sat, May 24, 2008 at 4:04 PM, t3st3r [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -Original Message- From: Vinc Duran [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: List for Openmoko community discussion community@lists.openmoko.org Date: Fri, 23 May 2008 18:51:00 -0600 Subject: Re: Video of production device? Is there video of the production FreeRunner in use? I found http://illume.projects.openmoko.org/illume-vv-01.avi posted by Kevin Dean on May 19th. Is that video of shipping software or just a concept video? If someone cares I dislike such UI.Even on video playback it can be seen that sometimes some sliding effects are somewhat slow.And, what is slightly worse, UI has too few items per screen and over-uses this nasty sliding.So on this video I can see just a permanent nasty scrolling and sliding.IMHO such UI is neither well optimized for stilus- or finger-driven UI nor comfortable in sense that there should be as few levels of nested menus as possible. It's actually well optimized for the stylus and finger. Openmoko's 2007.2 stack is HORRIBLE for finger based usage, and while Qtopia is a bit better, it's still pretty bad. The ASU makes selection (via sliding) easy. Text is also pretty big and easy to select. From video it looks like dealing with such menu system is a real PITA. Much easier than hitting a tiny square with my finger. Sliding is great effect and looks great and I like it.If it's not overused as here in this example. You can still use the icon based app selection screen (ala Qtopia or iPhone) and is infact the default. Illume is shown off because it's actually creative. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Qte or Qt?
Qt has been adapted for X11. This is why GTK apps will still be supported. On Sat, May 24, 2008 at 11:36 PM, Bin Chen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, As ASU switched to Qt, to ensure the coexistence of GTK+ and QT, the backend should be chosen to X11. As I know, QTE only support framebuffer backend, so OM use desktop QT but not QTE? Thanks. Bin ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: My blog, Freerunner FIrst Impressions and some pics
On Fri, May 23, 2008 at 12:43 AM, Kosa [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Awesome! Thank you very much. No problem. :) What about the software? Did it came with QTopia? It actually came installed with an older version of the Openmoko Stack, with the familiar GTK applications. It didn't work very well and it's since been erased. :) I am under the impression that the version shipped once it's on sale will have a small set of Qtopia based applications working and that updates will be released shortly after that to add functionality. So, what came installed on the one I have probably won't be installed on the ones purchased from Openmoko.com or from a reseller. And sorry if I'me getting it wrong (my english is not very good) but first you wrote no accesories and next you wrote it came with a headset and the laser/led/pens stylus. Ain't those accesories? I wrote The Freerunner doesn't come without accessories, however. which is probably a bit confusing. :) My apologies. This means it DID come with some. It is not lacking accessories is probably a more clear way to phrase that. Well, I have a lot of questions, but I think I'll better let those who know how to ask make them. You're doing well enough. :) Any questions you have might help me decide what ends up in the reviews I write, so I'd appreciate the input. :) Thanks again Kosa - Un mundo mejor es posible- Kevin Dean escribió: I recieved my Openmoko Freerunner sample this morning via DHL, and like I did with the Neo1973, I took lots of pictures and blogged about it. Some of the pictures aren't the greatest (poor lighting in my bedroom and a photographer I am not!) but they get the idea across. The write up also gives a few tidbits of opinion on some of the changes that seem to get overlooked. Anyway, the writeup can be read at: http://monochromementality.com/index.php/blog/show/Day-One-Openmoko-Freerunner.html -Kevin Dean ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: My blog, Freerunner FIrst Impressions and some pics
Hrm... I've been having issues off and on too. I'll tranfer the site to a new server when I get to work, hopefully that will help. -Kevin On Fri, May 23, 2008 at 8:14 AM, Marco Trevisan (Treviño) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Kevin Dean wrote: Anyway, the writeup can be read at: It's about a day (since it has been posted on planet) that I can't connect to your site! :( -- Treviño's World - Life and Linux http://www.3v1n0.net/ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: My blog, Freerunner FIrst Impressions and some pics
My VPS provider was upgrading the hardware and decided to upgrade my plan because of the interruption. I thank you for the offer, but I don't think it'll be needed, it seems stuff is loading again now. :) -Kevin On Fri, May 23, 2008 at 6:13 PM, Kosa [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Kevin, David, Marco, Bastian, I just clicked the link again and I got the page nice and easy. If you want me to mirror it somewhere else just let me know. Kevin, I have a nice server if you want to use it. It'll be an honor to host your stuff. Cheers Kosa - Un mundo mejor es posible - Bastian Muck escribió: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 I have the same Problem. :-( Marco Trevisan (Treviño) schrieb: | Kevin Dean wrote: | Anyway, the writeup can be read at: | | It's about a day (since it has been posted on planet) that I can't connect to your site! :( | -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFINtpPlYiDScJJ+7QRAkNAAKCJvUe2yBhbPjgN5WRiSaz7PGijvwCeILCm fHERRfdNQiWmbK/MDpuJXJQ= =QcBV -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA01 battery charge circuit: ID pin?
Wurp wrote an applet that adds a LOT of functionality to the 1973. Install the applet on you phone and then force it to fast charge when connected to a charger and you're golden. Charge on the go, using a wall charger or a car charger. :) http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/CheckFastCharge-script On Fri, May 23, 2008 at 6:36 PM, Major A [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, I have a GTA01 and want to use it even when I don't carry a computer with me. I read that the battery charge circuit of the GTA02 will switch to high current if a 48k resistor is present between the mini-USB ID pin and ground. Does this also apply to the GTA01, i.e., is it worth hacking up a cable for that model? Thanks, Andras ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
