Re: SD Card Fix Fubar
yes Francesco Cat wrote: have you tried a different SD before sending it?? 2008/8/3 Scott Derrick [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Well I think I screwed my SD card reader trying to solder on the GPS fix. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
SD Card Fix Fubar
Well I think I screwed my SD card reader trying to solder on the GPS fix. I got the cap soldered on, slamed in an sd card and fired it up. No card. Nothing mounted at /media/card and doing a manual mount produced the error mount: special device /dev/mmcblk0p1 does not exist BUMMER! So pulled the card out, got out the big magnifier and there was a solder spec between pin 6 and 7! *hit! I unsoldered the cap, sucked and scraped all the solder out. Metered between all the pins to verify no shorts( I know I should have done that first). Put the card back in and no joy.. nada.. Not sure how to proceed now. Is Openmoko going to be taking FR's back for repairs? Scott ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Warranty after fix for GTA02 GPS rework for SD card interference issue
From everything I've heard a software only fix will not be enough. Unless you ditch your sd card as a data store. All new FR's have the HW fix and new software will be written to take advantage of that HW platform. The software fix alone allows you to get a fast TTFF but after that, sd card data transfers are just to noisy to maintain a high quality GPS data stream. Yes it works but poorly, which is better than not at all. I have two Fr's, once I get the caps(this week). I'll do the HW fix on one, install the software fix on both, and do a side by side comparison. Does the Qtopia distro have the GPS fix and GPS software? If not is there a GPS package I can install on Qtopia? Scott steve wrote: Start with the software fix. It should slove the problem. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Annie Sent: Sunday, July 20, 2008 3:01 AM To: community@lists.openmoko.org Subject: Warranty after fix for GTA02 GPS rework for SD card interference issue what impact, if any, will there be on the warranty of the FR device once the fix has been carried out ? ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: WIKI still a POS
Vinc, I agree there have been some improvements. But the main page is still really broken! I would love to see this project succeed beyond the usual Only for Geeks Linix/OS project. They way it is now the state of the documentation for a normal user is a guarantees it is doomed to be a very very small niche product at best. Every time I go to the wiki for new info it is a painful and frustrating process. Yes if I am going to reread something I already know is there its not bad, but ferreting out new information is not easy. Scott Vinc Duran wrote: You should know it's improved significantly over the last couple weeks. To me it seems the Getting Started page in particular has been much improved. (That's where I've spent most of my time.) On Mon, Jul 28, 2008 at 7:11 AM, Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The OM Wiki is still a prime example of 'How not to do a Wiki. a few easy example on the main page. 1.) On the main page is a link for Test cases, Why is this on the main page? Its useless to 90% of the users and should be under Development. 2.) There is a Software link that leads you the Developer Guide??? WTF? 3.) There is a Hardware link and the 1973 FR links. Why? Both the 1973 Fr pages have their respective hardware links on their pages. Its a classic misdirection. It looks like Openmoko wants the Neo to fail, because if the main source for information on how to operate the phone is this WIki, its doomed. Isn't there supposed to be some new Wiki Editor force around that was going to fix things? Scott ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: WIKI still a POS
Sean, OK, I'll hop off the box for now. And thanks for letting us know you folks are aware of the problem and working on it. Scott Sean Moss-Pultz wrote: On 7/28/08 Scott Derrick wrote: I agree there have been some improvements. But the main page is still really broken! I would love to see this project succeed beyond the usual Only for Geeks Linix/OS project. They way it is now the state of the documentation for a normal user is a guarantees it is doomed to be a very very small niche product at best. Every time I go to the wiki for new info it is a painful and frustrating process. Yes if I am going to reread something I already know is there its not bad, but ferreting out new information is not easy. Please give us a bit more time. We're having lots and LOTS of internal discussions on how to make our Wiki better. We know the quality is not what we all want. Brenda (and crew) will be talking with everyone a lot more in the coming weeks of our plans to get/integrate your feedback. I'm 100% confident we can get there. -Sean ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
ready to flash
Been playing with my FR for a couple days now. I'm using an ATT Pay as you Go Sim, and it appears to work fine. Though if I go into an area of no coverage, which are plentiful in western New Mexico the top bar says Registering, the GSM status dialog either says No Service or Invalid Registration? Once I move back in coverage it eventually reconnects and says ATT in the upper left. The GSM icon in the upper left must update really slowly cause it lies a lot about the signal strength. Couple questions. 1.) I would like to back up my existing kernel file system. Seems some are having a problem using dif-util. Is this isolated or everybody? Has any body used partimage and successfully backed up and restored? 2.) Trying to decide which distro to use is really really hard! Does ASU have everything Qtopia has? Is ASU always as broken as the list makes it sound? Which has the best qwerty keyboard that is finger friendly? What is scardy-cat? thanks, Scott Oh, everybody I call says there is an echo on my voice and they can here themselves. I've heard numerous mentions of this problem. Has anybody come up with an audio configuration that doesn't do this? ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Firewall blocks USB ethernet
I finally have my FR's, WH! Got USB networking set up but I have to shutdown my firewall to get it to work? I'm using Ubuntu Hardy, and Firestarter as the firewall iptable mananger. Anybody know of a How-to that can tell me how to setup my system to allow usb networking through the firewall? Scott ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GPS success: updated default software stack with no antenna
Sounds like both fixes are needed for optimal GPS reception. Would be nice to see two fr's side by side, both with the software fix, and one with the cap added competing with each other. Scott ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
GSM Antenna Connector part of Closed System?
I can find the (don't say it) IPhone connection specs on the apple site! I can find any Motorola phone connections specs on the Motorola site. But not OpenMoko. Doesn't anybody at OpenMoko know what the internal GSM antenna connector is? And why wouldn't something as basic as a connector list be on the WIKI? Scott ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA02 GPS rework for SD card interference issue
I use electronic silver solder, 62/36/2 62% tin, 36% lead, 2% silver 44 flux, dia 0.5mm made by Kester with all that lead maybe its not available in the EU? Kester makes a lead free equivalent. here's a lead free equivalent in a small package. http://www.shopatron.com/product/part_number=5831/135.0 Scott Yaroslav Halchenko wrote: could anyone recommend a nice solder for such kind of work? (haven't bothered to buy one in the states... in ukraine at the university was using whatever was given ;-)) On Tue, 22 Jul 2008, Tim Schmidt wrote: On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 8:35 PM, steve [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 1. Give people a free repair kit? 2. work with distributors to do repair. 3. Host repair PARTIES! Woo hoo. Bring your own soldering iron. BYOSI Personally, a kit would work for me. I have fine pitch solder and a nice iron, but not enough SMT parts to have that cap on hand (or easily aquired). I suspect others might not be so lucky though. --tim ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Anyone using FR as a phone?
Its hard to believe the distro doesn't come pre-configured with settings that don't produce echo, very low volume, interference? Scott Cédric Berger wrote: People I had on the phone never complained about echo. When I asked, they said there was none. But they often complained about volume level too low... and maybe that's why there was no echo... (and they also complained about interference noise, which I heard too) I need to make more calls and change my volume settings to know more... ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Reason for GPS problems found! / more patches
does it say what the two settings actually do? Scott Chris wrote: Andy Green wrote: Just a heads-up there is also another relevant patch on stable tonight. ~ It gives another interesting knob to twiddle about GPS performance. http://git.openmoko.org/?p=kernel.git;a=commitdiff;h=1d04b142ffeaa15129f046751f1366b0f0614f47 I did some tests with the new settings. My observations are based on the signal strength output in AGPS-UI. sd_idleclk=1 and sd_drive=2: The strength of the gps-signal rapidly goes down, then I loose the fix on my window. sd_idleclk=1 and sd_drive=0: I can't see a weakening of the gps-signal. Signal strength seems as good as with sd_idleclk=0. I copied some (big) files to and from the card, none were corrupted, all md5-sums were identical. I'm using a sandisk 4GB SDHC card. Thanks for the great work. -Chris ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Anyone using FR as a phone?
Come on! Blame the telcos for the Neo echo!! Thats stretching it. I've had numerous phones and about 4 different providers and NEVER had any repeatable echo, NEVER. I say repeatable, since I can remember maybe 5 calls in the last 10 years when I got a bad connection, and I live in the Tullies, where there was distortion. I hung up, dialed again and it was gone. Never a repeatable event. Its the phone, period. Whether its bad hardware design, bad software design or improper combination of settings is is to be determined. Scott signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Rules based policy engine
If GPS position is going to be a phone answering rule you would have to have the GPS sub system running all the time. It can't wake from sleep and acquire a position soon enough go be part of the decision. Not sure what that will do to battery life. Scot signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Rules based policy engine
I thought about it awhile and decided that you could have the GPS engine get a fix every 5 minutes or some user adjustable time frame and use the last known fix. 99% of the time it would probably be close enough. Scott matt joyce wrote: Scott Derrick wrote: If GPS position is going to be a phone answering rule you would have to have the GPS sub system running all the time. It can't wake from sleep and acquire a position soon enough go be part of the decision. Not sure what that will do to battery life. Scot That's a valid point. However, if a GPS dependant rule cannot get a fix (because it's off) in a timely fashion, the rule fails. -- The only security of all is in a free press. The force of public opinion cannot be resisted when permitted freely to be expressed. The agitation it produces must be submitted to. It is necessary, to keep the waters pure. Thomas Jefferson to Lafayette, 1823. ME 15:491 signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Rules based policy engine
Problem there is the rule based engine is trying to decide to answer the call, put it to voice mail, vibrate, ring loud, etc... Waiting 30-60 seconds for a cold start fix from the GPS is too long. Scott matt joyce wrote: Or, perhaps use GSM triangulation to trigger GSP fix acquisition. Scott Derrick wrote: I thought about it awhile and decided that you could have the GPS engine get a fix every 5 minutes or some user adjustable time frame and use the last known fix. 99% of the time it would probably be close enough. -- The only security of all is in a free press. The force of public opinion cannot be resisted when permitted freely to be expressed. The agitation it produces must be submitted to. It is necessary, to keep the waters pure. Thomas Jefferson to Lafayette, 1823. ME 15:491 signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Reply above Quotation
Hows that? Derick Rethans wrote: On Sat, 19 Jul 2008, enaut wrote: What would help here is if the signature was prepended with -- + new line. For some reason mailman's defaults don't this. If that -- would be there most clients simply strip off the signature. It would be great if that change could be made. regards, Derick -- - Liberty means responsibility. That is why most men dread it. George Bernard Shaw, Liberty signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA02 GPS rework for SD card interference issue
This is great news. First thing I will do as soon as my FR arrives. Thanks for the lightning fast response. Scott Neng-Yu Tu (Tony Tu) wrote: Dear Community: For GTA02 SD card interference GPS issue, our hardware team provide a hardware fix/workaround for this coexistence bug. Sorry post it late, because we have to make sure this fix works and don't have side effects. Here is the fix: http://www.openmoko.org/wiki/Image:Gta02_gps_10pf_rework_sop.pdf This fix could give almost same performance with SD card out of case. But this work still not suggest do by yourself, also, this fix need proper size capacitor (10 pf with 0402 package), and some solder technique. We saw people ask about service issues of Openmoko devices, and we are working on it. Our sales discussing with our distributor about proper services model, but do not have consensus yet, I will keep update it. Thanks, Tony Tu Openmoko, Inc. Support ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Split the List was Re: Battery Lifetime
I agree, I think it should be split, its getting out of hand. Hardware Software Applications Software Kernel/Boot Administrator etc Scott Pomeroy Lab wrote: I'm thinking of getting out of this mailing list because it fills up my inbox each day. Can someone please create a forum instead. I've been part of a lot of mailing lists and this one is too much. */Mathieu Rochette [EMAIL PROTECTED]/* wrote: On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 10:41 PM, Andy Green [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Carsten has started on a daemon to handle wakes in userspace that should eventually parse this and figure out if it can go back to suspend silently once the wake reason was serviced. should it be possible to disable a reason prior to suspend? eg: echo 0 /sys/somewhere/reasons/touch_screen maybe there will still be some case that can't be handled (eg: don't annoy me for 2 hours) but I think that could cover mosts. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- - Those willing to give up a little liberty for a little security deserve neither security nor liberty. Benjamin Franklin ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Reply above Quotation
If your going to quote the email your replying to, please reply above the quotation. Its hard enough wading through 300 emails a day without having to page down to see the reply. Scott -- - Those willing to give up a little liberty for a little security deserve neither security nor liberty. Benjamin Franklin ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Wiki Index was Re: Wiki editors
It appears that th index is already out of date. I was just looking at this locker program http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/User:Quicksand#zedlock looked under software and Nada! Are we aware it is out of date? How many other pages aren't listed? This is a big problem Scott BrendaWang wrote: I am wiki full time editor now. Here is the what I done these month. 1. Openmoko wiki system is Media wiki 1.2, since we upgrade our wiki system, month ago , I start to ask our IT put the extension on wiki. For example, category tree extension. http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:CategoryTree Now , everyone can use the tag, like this categorytree mode=pagesCategory name/categorytree 2.About read wiki offline (dump), actually , I already ask our IT do this since 4, July. I will push them. This function is very useful . 3. I would like to put the Youtube extension , then we can see the video on wiki. I would like to know if this useful ? Personal opinion , I like to have this. 4. I admit that , to the beginner , it is not easy to know how much useful page , they can find on wiki . So, I make a page name Openmoko official Index page. http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Openmoko_Wiki_Official_Index_Page 5. Then , I classify every pages of wiki , put the category on them, http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Openmoko_Wiki_Categories_Index_Page 6.It's great that have many people help me to maintain wiki page. In fact , Too many page, hard to verify if this page is out of date? Even , I use google analytic , it just can tell which page is popular , but can't tell if the content is correct or not. I plan to put the rating function on wiki. Perhape it can help many people who visit wiki , know how other people think this page is useful or not. http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:JSKitRating 7.I would like to have a page like for developer, everyone who is the beginner , want to join and develop software, and use this page to get every material they want . It just like a book , and has catalog like this: Part I Choose your software develop tool Part III Running your program Part IV Program sharing Part V Install Part VI Tools used on Openmoko Here is the page http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Openmoko_developer_guide Actually , 6,7 is my plan now, have more people edit the wiki page, make content become more correct and useful , will be great help . Brenda. ian douglas ??: Michael Shiloh wrote: I will help support you in any way I can. Yes, we can absolutely set up a mailing list for you to coordinate amongst yourselves. I will also make myself more immediately available to the wiki editors, so that questions can be answered as rapidly as possible. Hiya Michael, Quick question: what exactly is Brenda's role? http://openmoko.markmail.org/search/?q=brenda#query:brenda%20date%3A200802%20+page:1+mid:cancdihaeug2s7x2+state:results This leads me to believe it's Brenda's full-time job (as in, employment), to be the wiki editor, organize the articles, etc., so we certainly would value her insights and opinions. We certainly aren't trying to muscle in on her territory, but just willing to lend a hand to what is a daunting, gigantic challenge of finding and editing a LOT of information. Secondly, Michael can you coordinate with whoever is in charge of the wiki software to include the plugin I mentioned last night: http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:DumpHTML One of my own agenda points as a wiki editor is to get an offline-capable version of the wiki available for download to install on the SD card -- perhaps we could even build it up as an opkg documentation bundle or something. That'd be slick, with opkg update opkg upgrade being able to upgrade the documentation on the phone. Wiki editors, do you have a request for the list name? How about openmoko-wiki-editors? Since openmoko is already in the domain name, perhaps just [EMAIL PROTECTED] would be sufficient? -id ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- - The only security of all is in a free press. The force of public opinion cannot be resisted when permitted freely to be expressed. The agitation it produces must be submitted to. It is necessary, to keep the waters pure. Thomas Jefferson to Lafayette, 1823. ME 15:491 ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Wiki search
Can the search provide alternate spellings like google does? Showing the spellings that would provide a hit? This would be very helpful for those spelling challenged among us. Scott Sven Klomp wrote: Dear Brenda, please modify the configuration of the Openmoko wiki, so queries with less than four letters can be found. It might be helpful with all the abbreviations like ASU, FSO, SHR :-) Thanks Sven ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Ears and FR
It would make sense to me to lock it automatically when you seize a call and have some unlock mechanism, be a slider or (Z)edlock if you need to access the screen. Simple and idiot proof. Scott Jeffrey Malone wrote: I think you're way over thinking this matter to seriously consider the accelerometers as an option. Sure, it sounds great... but add in practicality. So when the phone is vertical, it locks the screen and dims it? What if I'm in a call, and bend over to pick up something off the floor? Or if my movements are such that I don't keep it quite vertical? And something that learns my habits? Would that not just be a very difficult thing to implement, and an extremely annoying thing to teach it? Simple solutions are the best and most reliable. A slider is the best choice, as it is reliable, intuitive and relatively simple. Jeffrey On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 3:26 PM, Al Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thursday 17 July 2008, Hans L wrote: On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 4:31 PM, AVee [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That should be fairly doable if I understand the accelerometer stuff correctly. During a call the phone should be unlocked when its horizontal or vertical. Any other angle probably means your holding it against your ear... I don't think it will be that simple. If I pick up my cellphone and hold it in a natural position in front of me(as if i were about to press a button to hang up), it is neither completely vertical nor horizontal. Making assumptions about orientation of a phone when held against someone's ear, versus how they hold it in their hands might not work well in all cases. You can always have a calibration routine - hold in front and press button, hold to ear for 5 seconds then back to in front. Besides you can always add an override. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org mailto:community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- - The only security of all is in a free press. The force of public opinion cannot be resisted when permitted freely to be expressed. The agitation it produces must be submitted to. It is necessary, to keep the waters pure. Thomas Jefferson to Lafayette, 1823. ME 15:491 ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Battery Lifetime
Ken, I'm looking for possible solutions or areas to investigate. When my FR's arrive I was going to investigate this area, but wondered how easy it would be without a debug board.. Scott Ken Restivo wrote: On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 08:19:38PM -0600, Scott Derrick wrote: I'm amazed that more isn't being said about the battery lifetime people are seeing? I just read an article in Information Week that cited a large poll concerning users of mobile devices. What was the number 1 issue, far and above any other issue people are concerned about and want to see improvement. Yes, battery life. The times I've seen posted here are pathetic! 8 hours of standby! Christ, my MotoQ has almost 8 hours of active phone time! 8 hours of standby makes the FR a toy at best. I realize that a lot of people are just trying to get the unit to accept a sim card, or make a call, get a gps fix, etc.. But I seriously can't use it as anything but a desk toy with that kind of battery life. Is there an ACPI or some other kind of power monitor built in that is granular enough for somebody to work on this problem using software? I wasn't sure if you were looking for solutions or just wanted to vent, but yeah, the battery lifetime is pretty anemic. I was going to ask what was the duty cycle of that USB connector on the phone, since I find myself constantly plugging it in and unplugging it. Kind of like I used to do with my old Palm III back a decade ago, because if you let the battery wear down then you lost all your data (talk about design flaws... that was an awful one...). Another thing I noticed was that when I pull the phone out of its little neoprene condom, it almost always is lit up and not in sleep mode, and it also almost always has the Diversity app running (I have no idea why). Apparently the touchscreen is getting bumped and keeps waking it up when its trying to sleep. But one of the solutions may be possible to do in software: make the lock (aux?) button dim the screen AND put the thing into low-power standby, and do NOT allow any stray rubbing up against the touchscreen to wake up the phone from sleep. Any ideas how hard it might be to do that, or where in the software it'd need to happen (i.e. userspace, kernel, uboot, etc.)? -ken ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- - The antidote for misuse of freedom of speech is more freedom of speech. Molly Ivans ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Battery Lifetime
Wow thats fantastic! First I have heard. Gladly I will admit to raising a non-issue, sorry. Scott Adam Talbot wrote: This is all with my FreeRunner. 144 hours, to be exact. Or, about 6 days of stand by time. Something like 4 hours of active talk time. Looks like you could get 8 days and 5 of talk, but I like every thing turned on. I have GPS running, but with out an SD card ;-). Currently using the built in APM for power management. Keep in mind suspend/resume is unstable. As I have seen many times. Still working on squashing the bugs. Currently do not have a working SIM to test wake up on call. Is there a way to stop the screen bumping issue? Perhaps unload the module that runs the touchscreen until there is a wake event (Auk key)? On Tue, 2008-07-15 at 22:26 -0500, Steven ** wrote: Last I read, they were getting like 100 hours standby with the new suspend/resume functionality. I don't know if there's an image that has those changes available though. It's not a hardware issue... -Steven On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 9:19 PM, Scott Derrick [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm amazed that more isn't being said about the battery lifetime people are seeing? I just read an article in Information Week that cited a large poll concerning users of mobile devices. What was the number 1 issue, far and above any other issue people are concerned about and want to see improvement. Yes, battery life. The times I've seen posted here are pathetic! 8 hours of standby! Christ, my MotoQ has almost 8 hours of active phone time! 8 hours of standby makes the FR a toy at best. I realize that a lot of people are just trying to get the unit to accept a sim card, or make a call, get a gps fix, etc.. But I seriously can't use it as anything but a desk toy with that kind of battery life. Is there an ACPI or some other kind of power monitor built in that is granular enough for somebody to work on this problem using software? Scott -- - Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add within the limits of the law, because law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the rights of the individual. Thomas Jefferson ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- - The antidote for misuse of freedom of speech is more freedom of speech. Molly Ivans ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Time share the SD Card , was Re: Reason for GPS problems found!
Turning the SD card off periodically to fix the cross talk(emf) issue is a good thing. Especially if it allows the GPS receiver to function properly and reduce power consumption on the SD card subsystem. I don't think they are talking seconds here but milliseconds. If the SD card is on once every 10 ms for a couple ms, that should provide ample time to read or write data to the card and also provide ample time to get good signal from the GPS satellite. I'm making up those values, the real time periods are for the HW engineers to work out. All hardware and software designs are a set of compromises. At least thats how I see a possible solution done. I've done similar things in other embedded hardware. Scott BlueStar88 wrote: Andrew Bennett schrieb: From reading between the lines on some of the e-mails from OpenMoko staff, it seems that the interference with the GPS receiver was caused (at least in part) by the SD reader being always-on, apparently because the SD firmware is still incomplete or in beta, much like the rest of the OpenMoko firmware. The fix appears to be to enhance the SD reader to only turn on when necessary. From where I sit, that's a two-fer! GPS gets fixed and the SD reader gets enhanced to a more complete state. I'm happy :) Ahmm... to only turn the reader on when nescessary? Sorry, but that sounds like to be just a "work around" to me, not an enhancement to a more complete state. It sounds like selling a bug and it's work around as a feature we all have waited for.. If I got this right, it still remains to be a reception mess, if the reader will turned on on demand (for reading map-data for example). So where exactly is the enhancement? Not to have to pull out the SD card for using GPS/getting fix? Nice, but thats not enough. If the GPS reception qualitiy drops for - lets say - 50%, while accessing map data on the SD-card, I risk to loose the connection to the satellites in case of having any bad (environmental) conditions. I'll loose precision at least. Thats very bad for driving in big cities with tons of obstacles around, where the pure navigation feature and it's maximum reliability is really needed for the driver. Permanent SD-card read access while reading map data is surely to expect for normal usage! It's not about just not beeing able to watch a movie from SD-card while GPS'ing, it's about the strong need for the GPS/SD hardware - in combination! Sorry, but dynamically switching off the reader or clocking it down somehow is no real option, it is a serious failure in function for heavy routing application requirements. To be honest, I personally expected a working mobile in the very basic hardware meaning, but with trillions of *software* issues of course. Almost all (very rough assumption) GTA02-people are having this issue now, even GTA01-users are coming out with confirmations, so why it was not detected (nor digged deeper) by personal full range use before mass production? I'm not whining, I'd just like to understand it to some degree. Before someone suggests: I don't like the 'fallback' idea of using an external antenna, since it is very unhandy for bike and walk usage. Additionally the MMCX-jack will not like the permanent (often) mount and unmount procedures it'll cause. My current thoughts are two sided. On one side I don't like to hurt the really great (!) project by returning the hardware. On the other side I fear, that this issue cannot be fixed to have the initially expected behavior. I hope this bug gets busted *effectively*! :) ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Battery Lifetime
Chris, you got a SD card plugged in? Scott Christoph Anton Mitterer wrote: How are you doing this? If I fully charge my GTA02 battery before I go to bed,.. it will be nearly empty when I wake up (I seep 7-8 hours),... Dim+nolock is choosen, as dim+lock seems to crash the device and I have to remove the battery to reboot (nothing else works). Does anybody else suffer from this? I'm using the 2007.2 image with everything upgraded... What are you using? On Tue, 2008-07-15 at 21:29 -0700, Adam Talbot wrote: This is all with my FreeRunner. 144 hours, to be exact. Or, about 6 days of stand by time. Something like 4 hours of active talk time. Looks like you could get 8 days and 5 of talk, but I like every thing turned on. I have GPS running, but with out an SD card ;-). Currently using the built in APM for power management. Keep in mind suspend/resume is unstable. As I have seen many times. Still working on squashing the bugs. Currently do not have a working SIM to test wake up on call. Is there a way to stop the screen bumping issue? Perhaps unload the module that runs the touchscreen until there is a wake event (Auk key)? ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- - Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add within the limits of the law, because law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the rights of the individual. Thomas Jefferson ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: In the press
Man I have to agree. I'm just jumping on to the OM bandwagon with the purchase of two freerunners but have reservations about it now. Looking through the Wiki is a pain and a chore to find useful data. Yes there are gems in there but they are buried under tons of old and inaccurate data. Some people having very basic problems, like making a phone call, or playing music, charging the phone, right out of the box is really inexcusable. And for many this list is the only source of possible solutions! If the OM is going to survive and grow into a viable platform something has to change. Somebody is going to have to take the reins on documentation. Information is the key to its success and right now its in shambles. I'm not trying to point a finger or blame anybody. I think the scope has grown beyond the ad-hoc means used up to now, especially since we have a new phone added to the mix. There has to be some distinction between the 1973 and the FR because it appears they are not completely compatible. I think OM is going to have to step up to the plate and dedicate some resources to at least organizing/overseeing and enforcing a standard to the documentation of the project so there is coherence, timeliness and to reduce the outdated and inaccurate information. Scott Sean Moss-Pultz wrote: Jay Vaughan wrote: This stood out for me The tangled pile of mostly outdated and incomplete documentation at the OpenMoko wiki... Is this an accurate evaluation of the wiki ? If so, what can we do to fix it up, how do we identify old content and schedule it for updating? I think, personally, its time for a 3rd-party site not related to OpenMoko to pick up the slack here. So much stuff happens too quickly for people who /should/ be updating the wiki to feel like its productive to do so .. What I would like to see is something like an mokofanboix.org website come up that has the following: - Daily blog news akin to the good ol' slashdot, of news from the openmoko scene, gleaned from careful inspection of the mailing lists, of IRC, of the codebase, of code delta's, etc. - Public free Repository of all the latest and greatest 'cool apps' found for OpenMoko - Public forum for discussion of the news. This is, of course, sorta what we've got with things like planet.openmoko.org (which I check daily), combined with the Scaredycat repo's and other such things, but .. for newcomers .. I don't think any of this is as easily approachable as it would be if it were all put under a single umbrella that is a bit more of an 'openmoko pop culture' site than what we've got right now .. Jay These are all great ideas and would be very helpful for us. We are a small company. And really try to focus all we can on our products. Community help to make these more approachable is something that would make us all very grateful. Let me know if there is anything specific you think we (Openmoko) could do to help get this all started. -Sean ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- - Just because I sound like an idiot doesn't mean I agree with the president.from an ad on Air America Radio ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: ***SPAM*** Re: In the press
I don't think its the wiki software that is the problem. Its the ad-hoc management method of everybody editing and no one doing QA to insure old stuff is thrown out or clearly marked, consistent format, new pages in the right place, appropriate links to and from the document, etc There has to be some kind of control to enforce a standard, I'm a libertarian at heart but the free-for-all method used now falls apart when you have multiple projects(1973, FreeRunner, etc) and hundreds of contributers.. I think OpenMoko stands to gain the most from teh effort and should step up to the plate to provide a WikiBoss that can provide the standard, organize volunteers to police their areas of expertise. Unless this of some other kind of oversight is done any new wiki will degenerate into the state of the current wiki in short order. Scott Curtis Vaughan wrote: Since Ken really liked OpenWRT's Wiki, I looked at it and see they use MoinMoin. So, I am willing to set up MoinMoin on a server to be used as an FR community wiki. If people think it's a good idea then I will set up a website for it and register it. Perhaps something like mokofanbox.org or whatever. I don't really care. I can register it and I will make it available to whomever can administer it. Jay seems to be willing. Anyhow, if that's what will help us out then just give me the green light and I'll do that much. If it works out - Great! Curtis ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: In the press. The OpenMoko wiki - a tangled pile of mostly outdated and incomplete documentation.
Perhaps this is what you seek? http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Distributions This is a great page, one of the gems hidden in the bowels of the OM Wiki. Its also a great example of whats wrong with the Wiki. But how do I find it? Its not listed on the home page, not on the FreeRunner page, not on the getting started page?Unless I search for exactly teh right word or combinations of words I would never know it existed... The only link I could find, after I knew it existed was Software/distributions/distributions.. There has to be some kind of boiler plate format for the design and layout of the Wiki so things are easier to find. You can't rely on the search engine, it sucks.. I think that was the point of the person who recommended the OpenWRT Wiki. Its design and format was easy to use and helped you find things instead of thwarting you. Scott ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Battery Lifetime
I'm amazed that more isn't being said about the battery lifetime people are seeing? I just read an article in Information Week that cited a large poll concerning users of mobile devices. What was the number 1 issue, far and above any other issue people are concerned about and want to see improvement. Yes, battery life. The times I've seen posted here are pathetic! 8 hours of standby! Christ, my MotoQ has almost 8 hours of active phone time! 8 hours of standby makes the FR a toy at best. I realize that a lot of people are just trying to get the unit to accept a sim card, or make a call, get a gps fix, etc.. But I seriously can't use it as anything but a desk toy with that kind of battery life. Is there an ACPI or some other kind of power monitor built in that is granular enough for somebody to work on this problem using software? Scott -- - Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add within the limits of the law, because law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the rights of the individual. Thomas Jefferson ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Any update on Windows connectivity yet?
Vinc, Don't tell me your a Windoze Weeniee! Say it isn't so! hehe!! Scott Vinc Duran wrote: I'm interested too. I'd be willing to help test windows apps or tools for openmoko. Vinc On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 2:32 PM, ian douglas [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: One of my bulk order buyers has prompted a question about whether there have been any advances with connecting a Freerunner to a Windows PC? Last I tried mine on an XP laptop, it detected a device but wanted drivers to communicate. Couldn't find anything relevant on a search at openmoko.markmail.org http://openmoko.markmail.org -id ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org mailto:community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- - Liberty means responsibility. That is why most men dread it. George Bernard Shaw, Liberty ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Anyone using FR as a phone?
I don't get some people have experienced audio issues? Is this an indication of the level of quality control in manufacture ring? Scott steve wrote: I use mine. My kids used theirs till I gave it away to somebody else. That said, some people have expereince audio issues. Engineering is on the issue. Steve -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Yaroslav Halchenko Sent: Sunday, July 13, 2008 8:44 AM To: community@lists.openmoko.org Subject: Re: Anyone using FR as a phone? wow -- that is very unfortunate... indeed phone which is useless as a phone would sound like a failure. I hope openmoko engineers and developers resolve the issue (bug report trace seems to reveal some improvements). Thanks for making us aware (my FR is still on its way) On Sun, 13 Jul 2008, Yorick Moko wrote: there is some talk about this on the devel-list: [1]http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/openmoko-devel/2008-July/003560. html [2]http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/openmoko-devel/2008-July/003562. html [3]http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/openmoko-devel/2008-July/003563. html On Sat, Jul 12, 2008 at 9:40 PM, Randy S. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am curious to know if anyone is using their FR as a phone. Mine has such poor audio quality, it is unfortunately useless as a phone. The audio I hear is clear but at a very low volume; the other person hears my voice very distorted and with a buzz. I am on T-Mobile in Texas, USA. -- Yaroslav Halchenko Research Assistant, Psychology Department, Rutgers-Newark Student Ph.D. @ CS Dept. NJIT Office: (973) 353-5440x263 | FWD: 82823 | Fax: (973) 353-1171 101 Warren Str, Smith Hall, Rm 4-105, Newark NJ 07102 WWW: http://www.linkedin.com/in/yarik ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- - Just because I sound like an idiot doesn't mean I agree with the president.from an ad on Air America Radio ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Is Multi-touch in Freerunner's Future?
I agree, one of the coolest features of the IPhone is its multi touch capability to zoom or do multi select. Scott Charles Pax wrote: Will we ever see multi-touch on the current Freerunner hardware revision? I remember hearing something about how it's supported by the hardware, but we're limited by X.org. -Charles ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- - As nightfall does not come at once, neither does oppression. In both instances, there is a twilight when everything remains seemingly unchanged. And it is in such twilight that we all must be most aware of change in the air however slight lest we become unwitting victims of the darkness. William O. Douglas, Justice of the U.S. Supreme Court ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: External Cell Antenna
Yes it would! A list of connectors would be nice too. Scott steve wrote: Well, perhaps We should consider releasing PDFs of the schematics. Would that help? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Scott Derrick Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2008 6:49 AM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: External Cell Antenna I was hoping the external ant port on the FreeRunner was for the cell modem and was disappointed to find out it was for the GPS. Any diagrams available on how to add an antenna port myself? What contacts to solder to, etc... Will I need a switch to enable an external antenna or will it just use it? Scott -- - What county can preserve its liberties, if its rulers are not warned from time to time that its people preserve the spirit of resistance. Thomas Jefferson ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: In the press
In my opinion , the Wiki sucks Very difficult to find any useful information. Scott Vinc Duran wrote: I think it's accurate. On Thu, Jul 10, 2008 at 10:41 PM, Matt Joyce [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I found this yesterday, thought it was quite an ok article. http://arstechnica.com/reviews/os/open-moko-software.ars This stood out for me *The tangled pile of mostly outdated and incomplete documentation at the OpenMoko wiki*... Is this an accurate evaluation of the wiki ? If so, what can we do to fix it up, how do we identify old content and schedule it for updating? Matt ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org mailto:community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- - The antidote for misuse of freedom of speech is more freedom of speech. Molly Ivans ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
GSM Data
When i finally get my FreeRunner is there an application available that will display GSM data? Which tower, signal strength, noise, etc. Scott -- - Those willing to give up a little liberty for a little security deserve neither security nor liberty. Benjamin Franklin ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Found it.(GSM antenna port)
Vinc, I found a description of disassembling the 1973 that describes where the GSM antenna connector is. They actually mention an alternative case that provides access to it. http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Disassembling_Neo1973 Here's the picture of the component side http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Image:Gta01b_v3_case_top_open_pcb_lifted.jpg looking at the lower right corner, you can see a hole through the board with the ground plane copper around it. At 11 o'clock is a connector with a white square base facing away from the board. Thats it. Looking at the FreeRunner board the connector is in the same place. Scott -- - Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add within the limits of the law, because law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the rights of the individual. Thomas Jefferson ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Sims
I'm expecting my FreeRunner soon and was wondering about the Sim card issue the 1973 version experienced. Was it fixed? Can I expect just about any ATT sim card to work now? I was looking on ebay for sim cards and couldn't find any that were in the good list as published here. http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Carriers/ATT Scott -- - Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add within the limits of the law, because law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the rights of the individual. Thomas Jefferson ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
External Cell Antenna
I was hoping the external ant port on the FreeRunner was for the cell modem and was disappointed to find out it was for the GPS. Any diagrams available on how to add an antenna port myself? What contacts to solder to, etc... Will I need a switch to enable an external antenna or will it just use it? Scott -- - Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add within the limits of the law, because law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the rights of the individual. Thomas Jefferson ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: External Cell Antenna
That is great news!! Just what I needed Scott Florian Hackenberger wrote: The port for the GSM antenna is under the cover according to [1]: Accessible GSM/GPRS antenna jack (if battery cover is removed) [1] http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo_FreeRunner_GTA02_Hardware -- - Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add within the limits of the law, because law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the rights of the individual. Thomas Jefferson ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
