Re: New $200 tablet?
On Mon, Jan 30, 2012 at 17:53, Al Johnson openm...@mazikeen.demon.co.uk wrote: On Monday 30 January 2012 15:42:14 Patryk Benderz wrote: [cut] This look very interesting. Can’t wait to get my hands on one. It is written 200 EURO, not dollars ($). Makes a difference. No mention of tax either. It's certainly interesting, especially in light of the Lima driver project for the ARM Mali, but we need more details. It looks rather like the ZT280-C71 which is usually somewhat cheaper, but whose manufacturer doesn't seem to have released kernel source. You are right. It should be noted that this is by no means any new hardware developed for KDE specifically. This hardware is already widely available for some time, in dozens (if not far more) of variants. I found similar hardware starting at about EUR 70 and the exact same hardware starting at about EUR 100. In Europe it seems to be most commonly sold as Zenithink C71 which is optically and hardware-wise fully identical to the Spark, in China I found it at least under 20 other names with the same hardware, and much more with slightly different specs. Many of them are intentionally sold as cheap i$random_apple_product clones. I haven't found out which company actually builds the device, though I'm pretty sure it's none of those found in the product names. All of those are likely based on AMLogic's reference board designs, and there is NO LINUX UPSTREAM support for either the SoC or the board. Also, there is NO SOURCE CODE available publicly (maybe with the exception of one github repository which seems to have at least some code) which means that all companies currently selling this device are violating the GPL. There are also no proper spec sheets, datasheets, or code references in any way. It is to hope, that the KDE guys are interested enough to have everything properly open sourced to be GPL compliant, though I fear they - like most open source projects - don't have the pull on Chinese hardware OEMs to change a horrible situation to a good situation. Anyway - in my opinion so far this is a lot of fuzz about hardly anything. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Very high capacity battery for GTA02
On Thu, Oct 20, 2011 at 16:11, Eric Smith e...@fruitcom.com wrote: Hi Has any one experience with or suggestions for a very high capacity battery for the GTA02? I want to use the device as a remote tracking device and with good power management and high capacity battery want to deliver 3 weeks life. Thanks -- - Eric Smith ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community First of all, the GTA02 doesn't have great power management, also due to a number of hardware bugs. So a efficient stand-alone tracker will certainly do much better. However, without display and so on it can be doable - but not by any standard battery that fits in the case. Cheapest way is probably a standard 4.5V alkaline battery at 6 Ah, should be enough for just about 3 weeks, doesn't even need any additional electronics for a quick'n'dirty solution. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [Gta04-owner] GTA04 Boot speed comparison
On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 10:37, Rui Miguel Silva Seabra r...@1407.org wrote: Em 21-09-2011 18:28, Alon Ivtsan escreveu: The video doesn't work in IceCat using HTML5 (WebM). A free phone should deliver its videos in a patent unencumbered format whenever possible. YouTube converts do WebM, but it isn't instantly (perhaps a regular batch job?). Give it a couple of days and it should play like that :) Rui Worked for me right away in Firefox. Actually most videos on youtube, especially very recent ones, do. Only some old ones are not yet converted. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: ATT and my beloved Freerunner
On Fri, Aug 26, 2011 at 11:09, Liz ed...@billiau.net wrote: On Thu, 25 Aug 2011 18:31:44 -0700 (PDT) error l...@cmccreery.com wrote: ATT has been calling and text'ing for the last 2 months. They have informed me that my phone will no longer be compatible with their network on Monday Aug 29-30, 2011. Has anyone else running into this issue? This looks a lot like IMEI blacklisting to me, I can't imagine any other reason. In the states, I assume the FCC is the authority to contact with such problems, and that's what I would do in this case, because the Neo is FCC approved. Sitting in another part of the world, this sounds like complete rubbish to me. Massive network upgrades put phones out of use - here changes from one frequency to another, or from analog to digital. Upgrades never put phones out of use as upgrades always keep backwards compatibility. There have been several upgrades on GSM networks all over the world, yet every GSM phone that's compliant should still work, because the standard is still valid (even though old devices might not be able to use new features). So there is no reason why the Neo wouldn't be supported anymore. Of course networks get replaced by newer standards which are non-compliant, but that can hardly be called an upgrade of an existing network, because it always will be a completely new network. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Video of SMD production of Freerunner Navigation Boards (GTA04 will look similar)
On Thu, Jun 9, 2011 at 16:38, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller h...@goldelico.com wrote: Dear all, we were allowed to look over the shoulders of the workers at the SMD fab that produces the Freerunner Navigation Board V3 and the GTA04. Here is the link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ngyhKr3yTO8 It shows how the PCBs are set up, how the pickplace machine is set up and how the components are placed. Finally, it goes through the reflow oven. The video shows the Freerunner Navigation boards which were produced yesterday and are finalized today. They promised to produce the first two GTA04A3 boards today so that we can test them in the next days and week. Since it looks very similar we do without another video. Nikolaus Awesome video, awesome project, and I love the openness you displayed so far. I really hope this becomes a success and can only congratulate to the courage to pull all this of. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: No plans for fennec on the FR
On Fri, Dec 3, 2010 at 13:17, Timo Jyrinki timo.jyri...@gmail.com wrote: 2010/12/3 Delian deli...@gmail.com: Seems there's no hope of seeing a native FR version of fennec right now. [0] Well, we already have nice browsers so, it's not a real big problem (IMHO). :P [0] https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=450929#c4 Well, Mozilla is not very famous of having much interest themselves in building end-user binaries for Linux platforms. Distributions do that for them, and similarly if Fennec will get mature at some point to the point it's feasible to package it into distributions, we'll get them through distributions that support FreeRunner's ARMv4, like Debian. Please read the comments in the bug report. The issue is not the lack of builds for armv4, the issue is that the code seems to have armv4 incompatible assembly code, so you can't just build it for armv4. Anyway, I don't think mozilla would object to a 3rd party patch that implements said code (if it indeed exists, haven't looked into it yet) in a reasonable way for armv4 aditionally. Otherwise distributions could patch their sources to provide a package if someone comes up with that patch. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: iPhone 4G display for Openmoko?
On Tue, Jun 8, 2010 at 07:54, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller h...@goldelico.com wrote: Hi all, with the new iPhone it is for the first time better in display resolution (640x960 on 3''5 = 326 dpi) than the Freerunner (640x480 on 2''8 = 283 dpi) with higher dots per inch. Does anyone know where to get such a display? Who is making them? They say it's an IPS display. Because they are not that common, it's likely that it's a custom made from Boe Hydis (www.hydis.com). They list only a small number of available displays, but some vendors have other panels from them. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: is 0.4A sufficient for charging?
On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 07:31, ivvmmunachieva...@gmail.com wrote: Hello list, going to buy a device from a local store that will convert alternating current from my bicycle's front hub dynamo to 5V 0.4A. Is that sufficient for charging my Neo? It is. USB is specified for 0.5 A @ 5V (^= 2.5 W) With 0.4 A @ 5V you'll be at about 2 W which is more than enough to run the Neo with all devices powered (display, gps, gsm, wifi) and even enough to load it while it's running (although this might be slower than USB). However, you should make sure this power converter has some big capacitors to make sure you get a constant supply - otherwise it's not good for your battery on long term. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: om on flow
i'm highly interested on the flow. it does everything better than the neo (well documented high end cpu, perfectly documented 7 band modem). the question is how it performs as a phone (battery, sound). and of course it's a little bulky and expensive. On 2009-05-25, Max m...@darim.com wrote: Hello. Recently I found interesting news about another open smartphone: http://www.gizmoforyou.com/e107_plugins/wrap/wrap.php?3 Are there any plans on porting om fso to that new platform? Any plans on cooperation between projects? Personally I'm not so interested in FLOW as in smartphone (I already got one... with crappy software and hardware bugs but I believe it'll be iron out one day) but if they'll extend variety of available modules I'd love to have a book reader with e-ink screen capable of connecting to external lcd\keyboard\mouse for example :) best regards, Max. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Why enlightenment?
On Sun, Apr 19, 2009 at 2:59 PM, Carsten Haitzler ras...@rasterman.com wrote: On Sat, 18 Apr 2009 19:31:39 -0700 Ali alish...@interchange.ubc.ca said: On Sun, 2009-04-19 at 11:28 +1000, Carsten Haitzler wrote: . so what other choices do you have if you have eliminated qt for license reasons and you think gtk is just not up to snuff and is unlikely to get there easily without major breaks? I've been a fan of fltk for a little while now (have only written the most basic things with it and that was 3-4 years ago), what are your opinions of it in regards to the neo? It's very fast and light, I think Dillo is written in fltk and it's lightning fast with a small footprint. What do you guys think about a stack (on top of debian for convenience) that uses flwm and everything else in fltk? isn't fltk just a wrapper around gtk? No, it really is a completely independent toolkit and really lightweight. However, this doesn't make it a good choice if you can avoid it. Sure, if you have 16 MB Ram and 8 MB Rom as only storage it is pretty neat. However, we don't have that limitations, so all the disadvantages hit without bringing any advantages at all (nobody would think of an FLTK-only toolkit in an environment with 128 MB Ram). Raster, you wouldn't use it anyway, because it's written in C++ and as far as I know there are no C bindings :) ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: sunlight readable LCD
On Thu, Apr 16, 2009 at 10:59 AM, carmen _...@whats-your.name wrote: Some ThinkPad X200 Tablets have similar AFFS+ screens of the same manufacturer if you want to see it in action. my X200 Tablet is unviewable in sun. standard CFFL backlight. i guess the LED is stronger? i use my Astak / Jinke / Hanlin ebook reader in the same sunlight, but refresh is pretty slow however i think a lot of applications could deal with eInk display refresh speeds next round of readers from said companies is looking to include GSM modems.. phone anyone? Not all X200 tablets come with the AFFS+ screens, I think the cheapest one (non-multitouch, non-LED) has a transmissive SIPS panel (good panel, but for indoor-use only). I'm not sure, but I think both LED displays, the standard UltraBright and the MultiTouch variants, should have Boe Hydis panels. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: sunlight readable LCD
On Wed, Apr 15, 2009 at 12:01 PM, Marcus Bauer marcus.ba...@gmail.com wrote: Hello list, Joseph Reeves wrote on his blog about a bicycle app for the Neo [1]. I have always wanted to add cycling / sports functions to tangoGPS but as the LCD is mostly unreadable in sunlight I felt there is little use. After trying it a couple of times on my bike I soon started to leave the Neo at home. So I wonder about three things for better outdoor use: 1) How many of you would be interested in the following hardware mods: * sunlight readable LCD * bigger LCD 3,5+ * new ruggedized case or rubber shell (including a mean to nicely fix in on a bike?) * waterproof (substaintially more costs) 2) How much money would you spend on it? To give you an idea: the PSP display with touchscreen can be bought on ebay for ~25$. A case may be ~20-30$ for volumes of 100+. 3) Last question: are there hardware people interested in this? Please reply here on list with your interest! If you're looking for _the perfect_ LCD for this job, have a look on the Boe Hydis HVT43WV1. 4.3 WVGA with probably the best sunlight-readability you can get on a colored screen. Some ThinkPad X200 Tablets have similar AFFS+ screens of the same manufacturer if you want to see it in action. However - I have no idea if it would be possible to connect it to the Glamo. If the resolution is too high, there are also 4 with WQVGA available. Also, I don't know if it is possible to get this devices in packages with less than 100 units. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Solar charger
On Sun, Mar 15, 2009 at 4:50 PM, Giovanni pino.o...@gmail.com wrote: Yesterday I bought this small portable solar charger: http://www.powersafer.net/it-it/prodotti/sc-10.html I found it in OBI (italian store) for 29.9 euro. It should be available also at Bennet and Conad, in Italy. It should work with the Freerunner. In fact it shouldn't. According to the data-sheet it maxes out at 100 mA, not enough to keep the Neo running, and definitely not enough to charge it. So in the best case (on a hot summer day without a cloud on the sky) you can keep it running some more minutes to do a last emergency call. I hope so! :) ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Freerunner freely runs Gentoo
On Wed, Mar 4, 2009 at 7:49 AM, Sven Rebhan odinsho...@googlemail.com wrote: 2009/3/4 roguem...@roguewrt.org: I'm waiting for the NetBSD+pkgsrc annoucement :) Isn't it possible to run Gentoo with a BSD kernel!? :-P /me runs and hides It's even officially supported: http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/gentoo-alt/bsd/fbsd/ However, I wouldn't expect the FreeBSD kernel to support the Neo's hardware good enough. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Annuncing new Project - Intone mplayer frontend
On Sat, Feb 21, 2009 at 6:29 PM, Dylan Reilly drei...@atariland.net wrote: Mplayer can't handle VBR mp3's by default. I have a patch [...] It can, and it does. I use mplayer as my only audio-player and listen to VBR MP3s every day. No need for a patch. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTK and OM
On Mon, Feb 16, 2009 at 8:55 PM, Michael Sheldon m...@mikeasoft.com wrote: Hi Kasper, I have, however, read a lot of places, that the GTK-support will be removed from the OpenMoko. I think you're probably just reading a lot of old articles about how the GTK based OpenMoko applications (openmoko-messages, openmoko-contacts, openmoko-dialer, etc.) were going to be discontinued in favour of either the QPE/X11 apps (as found on 2008.x), or the E17 based apps (as found in SHR). However as far as I'm aware development of the GTK based applications is actually continuing in hackable. I think you can be fairly certain that GTK support won't be removed from OpenMoko. Cheers, Mike. Even if it would be removed (what won't happen I guess), it would be a nobrainer to install it again. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Neverball, anyone?
On Sun, Feb 15, 2009 at 3:42 PM, Aapo Rantalainen aapo.rantalai...@gmail.com wrote: I made some first bitbake-recipe file and compiled Neverball 1.5.0 for Freerunner. It doesn't work. It is far too slow (less than 1fps). But maybe you want see it yourself: http://cc.oulu.fi/~rantalai/freerunner/neverball/ I read that there are iPhone version of Neverball, which uses smaller texturefiles etc. If anybody finds its sources, let me know. (Or if you have any other thoughts how to make it faster.) Don't waste your time. It's right, there are many implementations of this concept for various platforms. I don't think neverball is actually running on any phone (and it most likely wouldn't), iPhone, Win Mobile and Co. have all separate implementations. But all of them have graphic accelerators which are worlds beyond the glamo. Even if the 3D drivers were good (which isn't the case), it wouldn't run. Neverball is never going to roll on the Freerunner, you'd have to code a completely new game. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Neverball, anyone?
On Sun, Feb 15, 2009 at 4:28 PM, Thomas Gstädtner tho...@gstaedtner.net wrote: On Sun, Feb 15, 2009 at 3:42 PM, Aapo Rantalainen aapo.rantalai...@gmail.com wrote: I made some first bitbake-recipe file and compiled Neverball 1.5.0 for Freerunner. It doesn't work. It is far too slow (less than 1fps). But maybe you want see it yourself: http://cc.oulu.fi/~rantalai/freerunner/neverball/ I read that there are iPhone version of Neverball, which uses smaller texturefiles etc. If anybody finds its sources, let me know. (Or if you have any other thoughts how to make it faster.) Don't waste your time. It's right, there are many implementations of this concept for various platforms. I don't think neverball is actually running on any phone (and it most likely wouldn't), iPhone, Win Mobile and Co. have all separate implementations. But all of them have graphic accelerators which are worlds beyond the glamo. Even if the 3D drivers were good (which isn't the case), it wouldn't run. Neverball is never going to roll on the Freerunner, you'd have to code a completely new game. Small correction: It seems it's actually running on the iphone, impressive (especially compared to the poor performance I'm getting on an PC with the latest Intel graphics). But unfortunately, that doesn't change the fact, that it won't run on the Freerunner. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Euphony Beta 1 release
Hey guys, some might have seen and remember epiano, the little demo app I wrote a while ago to have a nice touchscreen-piano for the Neo. Since then, I have been busy writing a successor that enhances the concept quite a bit. Some might already have seen or tested it, it's called Euphony. So - where's the difference? Epiano was really only a piano, start it and the white and black keys were there. Euphony is now a framework, or better loader for instruments. So you can use not only the piano, but every instrument you can imagine (if you or someone else creates it). Here's what it looks like in action: http://videos.gstaedtner.net/euphony/euphony_beta1.ogv The bitbake reciepe is in OpenEmbedded, so you can just build it. Otherwise you can get armv4 ipks from my site (link follows). After installing there won't be any instrument, you first have to download one (the 3 demo instruments from the video are available on my site) and put it into ~/.euphony/instruments/ . So if you like, try it, and feel free to give me feedback, patches, suggestions, ..., either as reply to this post on the list, via private mail, or via IRC (you can find me in #neo1973-germany on irc.freenode.org). If you want to create new instruments, check out the small howto on my site and try it, it's really easy if you know edje a little. I'll be happy to host them, too. So, here's my site for more information, instruments and so on: http://tg.gstaedtner.net/projects/euphony.html If you are interested in the sourcecode, you can get it via the release tarballs, or better directly via git://gstaedtner.net/euphony.git Please don't be disappointed by the performance - the audio-backend I use is fluidsynth which is floating point driven and therefore not really Neo-optimized. So you have to play a little slower and use not so complex soundfonts to keep it usable. Unfortunately it's too much work (for me) to change that, so it will only be real fun on faster devices with FPU, like the (hopefully coming soon) GTA03 or similar. If you have any ideas for performance improvement, or you can provide a software synthesizer that uses fixed point, don't hesitate to tell me! :) Last but not least: Thanks to all people who supported me, especially to pfritz and the other guys in #e.de for EFL knowledge and help with C, the people of the pyneo.org project, and of course the developers of the great enlightenment foundation libraries and fluidsynth. Have fun, thomasg ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GPS
Jeffrey Ratcliffe schrieb: I'm having some trouble getting GPS to work on my Freerunner Having installed gpsd and tangogps, I tried starting gpsd and got: Starting gpsd: No /dev/ttyS3 GPS device, aborting gpsd startup. Check /etc/default/gpsd and tangogps couldn't find the gps receiver I saw this irc log: http://www.hentges.net/tmp/logs/irc/%23openmoko/2008/February/20080203_openmoko.log So I tried this: gpsd -n /tmp/nmeaNP and tangogps could at least find the receiver, but didn't find any satellites. Is gpsd -n /tmp/nmeaNP necessary on the Freerunner? Is there another way? Why doesn't the init script work? Regards Jeff ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community The Freerunner has another GPS than the Neo1973. The device with the NMEA-output is /dev/ttySAC1 (only works after powering the GPS on). With 3 minutes investigating in google, the openmoko wiki, or this mailinglist, you could find the information by yourself... ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Virtual QWERTY Keyboards to be used with Fingers...
I don't think qwerty is what we want really. Also that it requires only one keypress per letter is not fully true, as you have to use shift very often (capitals, special charakters, ...). Imho the display on the neo is way to small to have qwerty. The iphone shows, that eben the much bigger screen (without a high bezel!) is not really great for a extremely basic qwerty variant. I'm currently working on another system that requires one drag per sign (no matter what sign, be it capitals, special chars, ...) and can be extremely easy and fast with a proper layout. You can see a basic preview here: http://videos.gstaedtner.net/enter_neo_native.mkv I'm a total newbie in programming, but I expect some results in the next time. The system allows 144 key-combinations with buttons big enough to easily hit them with your thumbs. It allows fast one-handed writing of all ascii-signs and it will be very flexible with the layouts. So it would be possible to have a layout that allows single-click without dragging for keys needed often in a row (backspace/del e.g.), as you can see with the o on the video. I'm writing HelloWorld there (you can see the output on the terminal, as there is only a stdout-function at moment), the Hello to show the interface, the World to show the speed (that will improve quite a bit so that the interface will be fast enough to follow you :) ). Of course in the end it will be on the bottom of the screen as the old matchbox-keyboard is (at moment I'm working on the matchbox integration), so you can hold it in your right hand and type with your right thumb without needing the left hand at all. It doesn't even need prediction to be fast and easy, although it would be a possibility to enhance it. There's a tarball with the source, but not ready to be usable, so I will release the code later. Interested people can have the link and maybe an ipkg, but I'd recommend at least to wait until the matchbox-integration is ready. On 2/29/08, Marco Trevisan (Treviño) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) ha scritto: i intend to first give a predictive qwerty keyboard a go - why? well qwerty is familiar and requires only 1 press per letter. it seems the qtopia predictive kbd works pretty well on the gta01 and gta02 - so now it's a cvhance to improve on it wiht configurable layout, keys etc. etc. To agree again, in these days I've tried a Motorola A1200E [1] and it has a built-in predictive full qwerty keyboard [2] (not like the openmoko one, this is better imho since it only shows the possible words using the written combination of chars) that has been made to be used with a stylus, but I'm able to use it with no problems with fingers (both using the thumb and the forefinger) with a good speed! Imho a keyboard like the Motoming one is quite good for wrigin after a little training :P Treviño [1] http://wiki.openezx.org/A1200 [2] http://www.flickr.com/photos/trevi55/2299163770/ -- Treviño's World - Life and Linux http://www.3v1n0.net/ ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Virtual QWERTY Keyboards to be used with Fingers...
At moment it's only square - with the reason to need as less space as possible (like you can see it needs about the same amount of space on the screen as the matchbox-keyboard but way more efficient). As I use the efl and especially Edje as layout engine, it's no problem at all to just make a circular theme! Also there currently is only the alphabetic (yet not complete) layout that is easy to understand (without learning), but pretty unefficient. In future this all will be fully flexible. The themers can decide what form they'd like to have, it's easy to try different ways to find the best, and it also should be easy to find fast and efficient key layouts. At least that's what planned. Needs some time (I'm a newbie), but is no real problem. The only fix thing is the 12-button design, but as long this is implemented in the theme somehow everything is possible. A problem migt be matchbox, I just don't know how flexible the docks are and what is possible with them. I don't like wasting that much screen for a bit more comfort, but let's see. On 2/29/08, enaut [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thomas Gstädtner schrieb: I don't think qwerty is what we want really. Also that it requires only one keypress per letter is not fully true, as you have to use shift very often (capitals, special charakters, ...). Imho the display on the neo is way to small to have qwerty. The iphone shows, that eben the much bigger screen (without a high bezel!) is not really great for a extremely basic qwerty variant. I'm currently working on another system that requires one drag per sign (no matter what sign, be it capitals, special chars, ...) and can be extremely easy and fast with a proper layout. You can see a basic preview here: http://videos.gstaedtner.net/enter_neo_native.mkv I'm a total newbie in programming, but I expect some results in the next time. The system allows 144 key-combinations with buttons big enough to easily hit them with your thumbs. It allows fast one-handed writing of all ascii-signs and it will be very flexible with the layouts. So it would be possible to have a layout that allows single-click without dragging for keys needed often in a row (backspace/del e.g.), as you can see with the o on the video. I'm writing HelloWorld there (you can see the output on the terminal, as there is only a stdout-function at moment), the Hello to show the interface, the World to show the speed (that will improve quite a bit so that the interface will be fast enough to follow you :) ). Of course in the end it will be on the bottom of the screen as the old matchbox-keyboard is (at moment I'm working on the matchbox integration), so you can hold it in your right hand and type with your right thumb without needing the left hand at all. It doesn't even need prediction to be fast and easy, although it would be a possibility to enhance it. There's a tarball with the source, but not ready to be usable, so I will release the code later. Interested people can have the link and maybe an ipkg, but I'd recommend at least to wait until the matchbox-integration is ready. I like this Idea. Did you try to implement this in a circular fashion? that would look better and it may even be easy to use with one hand. With your square layout you often have prety long distances to drag. Moving my thumb over a display i feel only for a pretty small area comfortable the rest ist really hard to reach in an acurate way so that I actually hit the button i want to. enaut ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Virtual QWERTY Keyboards to be used with Fingers...
Without a doubt it's slower then standard-qwerty if you take only the non-capital non-special chars. The biggest problem with qwerty is, that you simply don't have the space to make it usable on the neo in non-landscape mode. Apple has a really good and efficient design for their qwerty keyboard on a much bigger screen without a high bezel, and as also Gustavo mentioned it's not really good usable (that's my personal experience, too). Also they use about 50% of the whole screen for the keyboard what (imho) sucks. What you're talking about already exists - the qtopia guis have such a predictive qwerty keyboard that works - maybe it's possible for you to give it a try or find a video. I'm still the opinion that qwerty isn't possible and it also isn't nice. I'll finish my own try, let's see how good it will be. Of course it's great to have multiple solutions, so openmoko has the chance to get the best mobile input method. If my design works and the people like it it would of course be possible to have prediction and other cool features, too, but that's not planned yet. My goal is it to have all needed chars, usable with fingers, without wasting 80% of the screen (like the multitap-pad does for example), and to be still fast. Imho this is already possible - enter currently needs about 30% of the screen for input, is really fast for 1-finger-touchscreen-input, and it has 144 possible keys. On 2/29/08, Marco Trevisan (Treviño) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thomas Gstädtner ha scritto: I'm currently working on another system that requires one drag per sign (no matter what sign, be it capitals, special chars, ...) and can be extremely easy and fast with a proper layout. You can see a basic preview here: http://videos.gstaedtner.net/enter_neo_native.mkv I'm a total newbie in programming, but I expect some results in the next time. The system allows 144 key-combinations with buttons big enough to easily hit them with your thumbs. It allows fast one-handed writing of all ascii-signs and it will be very flexible with the layouts. Well, the idea is good but isn't it slower than a standard qwerty keyboard? I was thinking also to an implementation of the qwerty mixed with a dictionary file that while you're writing shows the keys in different sizes proportional to the possibility of each key of being pressed... What do you think about this? -- Treviño's World - Life and Linux http://www.3v1n0.net/ ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Mono development in openmoko
Well, the problem is, that .NET is owned by Microsoft and (partly?) available under a shared-source-license that allows to see the code, but not to use it. Microsoft has patents on .NET and even if Mono is free - it implements .NET and there might be problems if Microsoft decides to use their patents against mono-users/programmers. Unfortunately so called open standards doesn't mean open-source - it means you can get a license for using Microsoft's ECMA-standardized functions for a adequate fee. You may want to read this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mono_(software)#Mono_and_Microsoft.E2.80.99s_patents On 2/1/08, Tim Shannon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm a .net developer professionally, so I prefer to develop in Mono as a hoby. But why do you say Mono hates freedom? I may be wrong, but I was under the impression that mono is an ECMA open standard, and all of the compilers and tools are all open source. Microsoft's compilers and tools of course aren't open source, but we're not talking about .net on Windows, we're talking about mono on Linux. On Feb 1, 2008 11:10 AM, Brandon Kruse [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am not bashing on enthusiasm, but why do you guys chose to develop in a language that hates freedom? Especially on this platform :/ Brandon Kruse (bkruse) On Feb 1, 2008, at 9:34 AM, Jae Stutzman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: We are developing for OpenMoko within mono. So far so good! We are currently command line (no gui yet). But it definitely is a nice environment to use. Startup time is a little slow, so AOT compilation would probably help out there. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Nokia to acquire Trolltech to accelerate software strategy
About 50% of Symbian are owned by Nokia. On 1/28/08, Patrick Davila [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think the whole point of this takeover is Qtopia. Yes, the Nokia N800 series internet tablet uses Maemo (based on gtk). Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't most of Nokia's cell phones running Symbian? Maybe buying Trolltech is cheaper than continually licensing Symbian? Plus they have a hell of lot more control in the direction of Qtopia Qt. Pat -- http://tllts.org/ - The Linux Link Tech Show http://pdavila.homelinux.org:8080/blog/ - My blog ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: gdm for the neo
Well, I think that's pretty useless, because Qtopia uses FB instead of X11 und gdm is a X11-displaymanager. Also it's not that easy, because all the distros you mentioned are completely different in the whole softwarestack, so we're not talking about switching between windowmanagers or so. The only reasonable possibility is using a bootmanager, and that's already there - you can use u-boot to boot whatever you want (whyever there should be different operating systems on a mobile phone -.-). There basically is the same reason like having multiple OS on a PC: none. On 1/16/08, Andreas Zuber [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Some minutes ago i installed qtopia on the sd-card of my neo. Now i have a dual-boot mobile and that's really cool. There is also a method in the wiki where qtopia and openmoko use the same linux installation. But on both solutions you have to go to the uboot-menu to chose the phone-desktop i want to use. Now here is my idea. On the Desktop we have the gdm or kdm to switch the Desktop. Why do we don't make something similar for the mobile. There are also other things to do by such an application: * User Login (Multiuser-Phone) * Decrypt home-folder * Chose session (openmoko, qtopia, gpe) What do you think? Andy ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Network questions
My routing looks like this: PC: eth0=192.168.0.25 usb0=192.168.0.200 Router: 192.168.0.1 Neo: usb0=192.168.0.202 Routes: Neo: default gw 192.168.0.200 / route to 192.168.0.1 via 192.168.0.200 / nameserver 192.168.0.1 PC: default gw 192.168.0.1 / route to 192.168.0.1 via eth0 / route to 192.168.0.202 via usb0 Router: route to 192.168.0.202 via 192.168.0.25 Works fine that way. On 12/23/07, Nicolas Linkert [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sat, 22 Dec 2007 21:15:50 -0500, Nick Guenther [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: On Dec 22, 2007 12:38 PM, Nicolas Linkert [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, I am geting confused with the network settings: - my PC has IP 192.168.0.2 - my router has IP 192.168.0.1 - my printer has IP 192.168.0.10 Now I am, supposed to set usb0 to 192.168.0.202. Does that work with my current configuration? Or do I need to have 192.168.0.100 PC 192.168.0.101 router 192.168.0.102 printer 192.168.0.200 usb0 192.168.0.202 phone You're probably getting confused because you don't realize that your PC will have *two* IPs. The network card with .2 is different then the network interface that the neo presents. The PC will have two addresses: .2 (ethernet) and .200 (usb0) and the neo has .202 (it already has it, in the default configuration). You will also have to make sure the PC is bridging packets from usb0 to the other interfaces. The details of how to do this depend on your OS.. it sounds like you have Ubuntu? Almost: Debian. Best regards, Nicolas ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Turning Off The Display
Hey there, does somebody know if it is possible to turn off the Neo's display? Currently only the backlight is disabled and the display still stays on (what's totally useless and a waste of energy). I tried to use xset, but the driver seems not to support dpms. Any hints? To recognize that the display stays on when the backlight is off you need a high-contrast background (the screenlock-background has nearby no contrast, so you won't see it, but you can open the vkeyboard which stays opened even if the Neo is locked) and a flashlight. :) Greetings, thomasg ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Harald LaF0rge Welte: Leaving OpenMoko...
It's really sad to hear this. With Harald one of the most trustworthy persons is gone. :( Well, I'm glad that the other guys like Mickey, Sean, Werner, Joachim, ... still are there, so I still believe that OpenMoko will be a success. Let's see what the future brings. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Neo1973/OpenMoko as a laptop replacement
I really like your idea. I also think that GTA02 will have enough power for a small notebook-replacement for a bit hacking, writing or something like this. If the lens would be mounted correctly I think this would be really cool. On software-side this could be done with using a new profile (like: Loud, Silent, Offline/Flight-Mode), named Laptop-Mode or so. This profile could switch from the matchbox-gtk-GUI to a full windowmanager in landscape-mode, let's say e17, which is running fine :) On 11/15/07, Erland Lewin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Please let me bounce an idea off the list... Given that the Neo1973 has similar processing power and screen resolution to what desktop machines had not too long ago, I think it would be cool if the user interface had a 'mode' where the Neo could work as a laptop replacement. I imagine a kit the size of a regular book for the Neo containing a fresnel lens with a frame for attaching to the phone, a foldable keyboard, a small mouse, and a battery pack loadable with, say, 2 regular 'C' size batteries. The keyboard and mouse could be either Bluetooth for wireless convenience or USB for use on airplanes. The kit could be carried separately from the phone when you anticipate wanting but not having access to a computer. The fresnel lens would be mounted about 10-20cm in front of the Neo (in landscape orientation), and magnify the 2.8 283 DPI screen to, say, an 8.5 94 dpi or an 11.3 71 dpi screen image. This would suit the Neo's high DPI screen well. The battery pack would allow the Neo to run for six times longer than the built in battery, so it would last for the longest flights. The Neo could run both as an X server thin client for 'heavy' applications run on a server over WiFi (or VNC), and host some local applications (simple office suite, games, development tools?...) for offline work. This 'mode' would have a regular full screen desktop look and feel with a lightweight window manager (e17, rasterman?). When you're done you disconnect the Neo and pack up your 'kit' in a small bag or case and return the Neo to your pocket or wherever you keep your phone. Sure, it wouldn't be as nice as having a separate laptop, but considering weight, size and price still an attractive compromise in some situations. This would take the Neo to where no phone has gone before, and show off the power of a 'real', desktop OS under the shell. Comments? (I don't have a Neo (waiting for the GTA02), so I can't try it. But I tested a fresnel lens with my Sony Ericsson P910, and I think it could work.) ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: google open phone platform
They talk about open standards, not full open source. Seems the basic components will be Apache Licenced, but I'm pretty sure the low-level software will be closed. On 11/5/07, Dean Collins [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yep pretty much. There is a time and a window for technology releases like this and FIC's time has come and gone. I hate to put it bluntly but; It's not hard to think about things like an opensource mobile OS's. It's not even that hard to convince someone to invest in it. It is hard to get out Beta and then retail 1.0 but the really hard part is being able to invest time and time again in new ideas to be on the breaking edge of technology and innovation. It was FIC's window 6-8 months ago but now when the industry stalwarts are crashing at your door it's time to close up shop, sit on the beach and think of the next coolest thing. Next time maybespeed to market' can be part of your business plan. Regards, Dean Collins Cognation Pty Ltd [EMAIL PROTECTED] +1-212-203-4357 Ph +61-2-9016-5642 (Sydney in-dial). -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:community- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Robin Paulson Sent: Monday, 5 November 2007 2:37 PM To: List for OpenMoko community discussion Subject: google open phone platform the digg and /. readers here have probably seen it already: http://www.engadget.com/2007/11/05/live-coverage-of-googles-android-gpho ne- mobile-os-announcement looks like google are announcing an open-source linux based phone OS, supported by a lot of big names in the hardware industry - htc, qualcomm, motorola. no nokia though and no specifics on things like open drivers/hardware specs is this about to swamp the sterling work of FIC and openmoko? ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
You're talking about EFL, not e17. But e17 is of course running, too :) http://gstaedtner.net/e17_on_Neo.avi Back on topic: Welcome raster, I'm looking forward to see what the future will bring to us. On 11/2/07, Florent THIERY [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Running e17 even as we speak. Same here :) Very big news, thank you, Sean and Raster ! Have fun Flo ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Building for x86
Some of the people in #neo1973-germany (freenode) built OpenMoko for x86, so this seems to be no problem. I guess with Xephyr you'll have OpenMoko in a X-Window on your desktop. On 10/30/07, Simon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, I've been following the list a bit and I was wondering if it was possible to build openmoko for a native x86 environment? I don't just mean to build the graphical end of it, but also the kernel and everything, have my root setup the way it is on the OpenMoko device. Have only the exact same software running... What I'm looking for is to isolate completely my openmoko build from my system. My system is too old to run OM in qemu, (it took more than 30 min to boot the last time i tried and it wasn't very functional with 1 min delay for clicks). So... I'd rather dual boot into OpenMoko than integrate it into my current system... I haven't done anything yet but I believe I should follow the path of: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/MokoMakefile Making sure to make the modifications explain in pages for setting up OM for Xephyr and Xoo. And then, place it all under its own partition (any partition preference? ext2?) and update my own boot loader (I've been using lilo for long now). Is there any special append=options I should use? I guess the part talking about u-boot should cover this, but if you guys can help with it... If I'm not drunk, this should work, right? Also, having everything native like this, what will happen with the X display? 1024x768 or will it resize with black borders left and right? Thanks in advance, Simon ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Some ideas for the accelerometer
I like the idea - especially because I always have full pockets and it takes hours to fish the phone out ;) Imho it should be possible to implement, a knock should give a peak you can't reach while walking and even if it happens, it shouldn't be that worse. 2007/10/14, Ortwin Regel [EMAIL PROTECTED]: This doesn't work well because the screen moves with the phone. So if you want to scroll right fast, you'll have trouble to see what's going on on the screen. Scrolling should rather be done on the touchscreen because that works really well. However, dragging the map/website as if it was physical is too slow in most cases. Increasing scrolling velocity by the distance from the initial touchpoint would probably be a good idea but adjustable scrolling speed would be great already. Instead of scrolling one screen far when I move my finger once across the screen, I want to scroll four screens so that I get where I want quicker. Someone else might only want to scroll one screen. Kinetic scrolling can extend this and look/feel awesome but also be very annoying so it should probably be optional. Now what do we do with the accelerometer? I like the zooming idea. It shouldn't require a hardware button press because those are kind of hard to press. Touching the screen should be enough and it would mean that you can zoom and scroll at the same time and pretty intuitively. About the initial idea: Judging from my DS accelerometer (which is different hardware but should be relatively similar), the sampling frequency will probably be pretty high. I still doubt that you can reliably differentiate between walking and hitting the phone. However, it might be possible to shake it two or three times with a frequency faster than any form of running and it should be possible to detect this. This probably won't help you if the phone is hidden in a huge backpack. It's also important to remember that the motion of picking up your phone should not lead to denial of the call... ;) Ortwin On 10/12/07, David Pottage [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Friday 12 October 2007, Oliver wrote: I've had similar ideas, but haven't posted them yet. Here's one: Imagine you're surfing the internet, or checking a map, or something like that. We don't have a multi-touch screen, so we can't zoom out with our fingers like iPhone users. Zooming out, though, is something we really should be able to do. So just hold a hardware button and bring the phone closer to your face! The site/image should be shrunk in such a way that you'll think it is stationary behind the phone, and the phone screen is a window through which you can view this image/site! When you've spotted something you want to focus on, somewhere else on the page, don't scroll, just keep holding the button bringing the phone/window down to that place. If you stop holding the button, the image can either stay where it is, or go to it's original zoom-level. Just imagine, if you think of the screen as a window, what incredibly fun games you could develop for the phone! I think a better idea would be to think of the screen as a mirror that you are using to view a much larger page behind you. That way you can intuitively scroll both vertically and horizontally a large page or map by tilting the screen, and without using the touchscreen. (Which can be reserved for other functions). A lot of UI ideas here are coppied from other touch screen devices. That's fine where appropriate, but the Neo 1973 is the only phone with built in accelerometers, and I think we should make use of them where we can. We should not just copy the iPhone or whatever, that only uses it's accelerometer as a tilt sensor to make the display image the right way up. -- David Pottage ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Yet another keypad idea
For a german keyboard you need at least 26+10+3+35=74 signs - and what much concepts do not yet handle are capital letters, or a shift key. If it should be really intuitive, you'd have to use special shapes for capital letters, because doing shift and typing the non-capital letter to do a capital letter isn't really intuitive (imho). 2007/9/9, D. R. Newman [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Giles Jones wrote: Thing is there are 26 characters in the alphabet and 10 digits, that's a lot of shapes to remember. It depends on which alphabet you are using. Even latin1 has more than 36 characters, as you have to include all the accented combinations in Portuguese, French and so on. We really need an input technique to work with any phonetic alphabet (Latin, Arabic, Hindi, Bengali etc.) and another to work with shape-based alphabets like Chinese. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: stylus alternative
Hehe, we just talked in the german irc channel about that. The korean company cowon (digital audio and video products) offers a interesting small touchscreen device for video- and audioplayback. For their player the use a very interesting stylus which is about the same size as a guitar pick. The pick-stylus is attached via a (included) short loop and available as spare part for about $3 (in the states). And here's the link: http://www.cowonglobal.com/product/product_D2_feature.php Imho this would be perfect for the neo, because we have a mounting hole for the loop in the device :) Maybe OpenMoko want to order a bunch from cowons manufacturer (maybe FIC is producing?). It's a really great concept of a small and really usable (guitar players will agree) stylus. 2007/9/10, Raphael Jacquot [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Robin Paulson wrote: so, i've been following the discussion on finger-based vs. stylus-based apps. and i thought it might be a good idea to come up with some ideas for something between the two: a short (20-30mm long) piece of kit, attached to the finger end it would not be gripped between fingers and thumb but instead would slip over the end of one finger. it could either be a metal/plastic ring, or a soft, close-fitting cap, such as the rubber types used by money-counters. a point would be needed to apply pressure to the screen - this could be a short piece of metal/plastic, rigidly attached to the ring/cap part of the stylus. myself, i would be more likely to carry one (lot smaller than stylus, cheap to replace if lost) and if it was well-designed it would be virtually unnoticeable by others anyone else see my vision? or am i insane? already invented (and probably patented up the wazoo) http://www.truetip.com/ ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Yet another keypad idea
Interesting concept, but I can't see an advantage to the standard numeric keypads. Maybe you can enlighten me? :) 2007/9/8, OJW [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Just playing with another idea for text-entry: http://almien.co.uk/Keypad/ The idea is to be able to type mixed letters / numbers / symbols / control-characters without having to look at the screen when typing. It takes a while to pick-up, but should be easy to use once you see how it works. Only implemented as a javascript demo for now, but imagine it as finger-app (perhaps transparently overlaid on an application). Only tested on firefox, sorry! Regards, OJW ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: 4 GB SD flash card does not work
Georg: It was said, that the SoC *should* support microSDHC-cards, but nobody hat the chance to test it. I don't know about the kernel support for SDHC at all. Ole: The dmesg output on your linux PC would be interesting. 2007/9/5, Georg Michelitsch [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Giles Jones wrote: On 5 Sep 2007, at 22:27, Ole Tange wrote: I just got a 4 GB SD flash card. It seems this does not work. It may just be this model though. SanDisk 4GB microSDHC 07190023400ZC So if you try it out with a 4GB card, try to get another one. In a SD adapter it works in a computer running Microsoft Windows. It does not work in my 2 cameras and also not in a Linux machine that is newer than the Windows machine. I have a feeling it might just be a driver issue. /Ole Does it show up at all or just doesn't mount? you may need to format as ext3 if it doesnt mount. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community Sorry for getting off-topic but I was just wondering if the Neo is able to handle any capacity of microSD / microSDHC memory Cards? (hardware-side spoken..) I assume capacity shouldn't be the problem on the side of software, right? Or are there some problems employing some newer cards (6GB, 8GB coming soon) ? Thanks in advance.. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: 4 GB SD flash card does not work
Good to know :) 2007/9/6, Stefan Schmidt [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hello. On Thu, 2007-09-06 at 12:37, Thomas Gstädtner wrote: Georg: It was said, that the SoC *should* support microSDHC-cards, but nobody hat the chance to test it. Outdated informations. :) I have one and tested it succesfully. http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=93 I don't know about the kernel support for SDHC at all. It does since version 2.6.21 regards Stefan Schmidt -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: http://www.datenfreihafen.org/contact.html iD8DBQFG3+vlbNSsvd31FmURAlJUAJ9AHSNPTgBIgHHuCk22ndZ7/WaabACfetj4 Htqnyai7sa9pW+ZicqD2ZGY= =bau6 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Myth Busting FTW
Great work - but somehow I don't believe that Daniel will publish a full correction on his page. Nevertheless, this could help to reduce the confusions in future. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: PocketCM Virtual Keyboard - We need it, or something like that... :)
Why should we need a freeware (not open source!) win mobile application if we already have the same as open source? http://blog.gustavobarbieri.com.br/2007/07/24/iphone-like-virtual-keyboard-for-n800/ 2007/8/27, Bernardo Pellegrini [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hi all, well, I don't know if someone has already pointed it out, but I found this video on youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7t0Zhys5tWEeurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww% 2Epocketcm%2Ecom%2Fkeyboard%2Ephp It's a freeware software for windows mobile (puah!), that emulate the iphone virtual keyboard. I think it can be downloaded from here: http://www.freewarepocketpc.net/ppc-download-pocketcm-keyboard-v0-2.html Anyway... It seems a good work, and in the video it works pretty well... I think that an easy-to-use input method for the openmoko platform should work like that... :) There is someone else that share my opinion? Italian Saluti Bernardo Pellegrini ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Convince me NOT to cancel my order.
You all do not understand the concept of a development release - and maybe you never will. Everybody who ordered knew what he would get, everybody had the possibility to check what will work and what will not. Sorry guys, but please just shut up. (P.S. To not casting a damning light on FIC or OpenMoko: I'm not affiliated to both.) 2007/8/26, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Why am I not being given the choice to RIGHT NOW to be placed at the FRONT of the GTA02 sales queue? Why dont I have a billion dollars? I really want it and I could really use it... Why am I putting up with all this frustration reading about others who -have- their phones and why should I not just cancel my order?? Seriously, with your already pissed off tone, I would never get this phone. I have one, and now wish I didnt get it. I am not looking for my money back or anything like that, I knew I could be buying a brick and was willing to take that risk.. But the fact is I just dont use it. I would think very early on the focus would be to reliably make and receive calls, which this phone cannot do. If I could use this to simply make and receive calls, I would have it with me and thus be more willing to write stuff for it while I have some down time at work. As it stands now it sits at home. I will have no interest in it until I can make and receive calls. Not make a few calls, then reboot, then receive a call, then reboot, etc... Thats just my opinion tho, so all the linux nuts out there please dont jump down my throat. The only reason I am writing this is so the guy asking the questions will get another point of view.. Dont get me wrong, this phone has tons of potential, but I think others may be in the same situation as me.. And after a few months of it sitting on the shelf, I will forget its there and move onto something else... That is of course if we dont get a reliable dialer in the near future.. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Incorrect UPS tracking numbers?
I'd like to congratulate Mike to his brandnew Neo1973 :-P scnr 2007/8/7, Roland Dreier [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I just got my Your order has shipped! email (yay!), but the UPS tracking number included showed a package signed for by Mike (not my name) in San Ramon, CA, (not where my address is). Did that happen to anyone else? Since I'm also in the San Francisco Bay area, I'm hoping my package will already be delivered too when I get home ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Enter runlevel: ???
2007/8/6, Emre Turkay [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hi folks, I've written both the file downloaded from the buildhost my own moko makefile images to the device by using the dfu-util. It is stopping at some point in boot and asking to enter runlevel. The messages shown on the screen are below. It used to work, does anybody have any idea what is wrong? ... ALSA device list: No soundcards found. TCP cubic registered NET: Registered protocol family 1 Bridge firewalling registered pcf50606_work: INY2=0x40 INT2=0x00 INT3=0x00:SECOND Empty flash at 0x01eaa1d4 ends at 0x01eaa200 fork failed for JFFS2 garbage collect thread: 513 VFS: Mounted root (jffs2 filesystem). Freeing init memory: 112K udc: enabling fast charge PM: Removing info for No Bus:vcs1 PM: Removing info for No Bus:vcsa1 PM: Removing info for No Bus:vcs1 PM: Removing info for No Bus:vcsa1 INIT: Removing infor for No Bus:vcs1 PM: Removing info for No Bus:vcsa1 version 2.86 bootingPM: Removing infor for No Bus:vcs1 PM: Removing info for No Bus:vcsa1 PM: Removing info for No Bus:vcs1 PM: Removing info for No Bus:vcsa1 PM: Removing info for No Bus:vcs1 PM: Removing info for No Bus:vcsa1 Enter runlevel: _ Thanks, emre ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
New webbrowser - OWB
Seems that there is again a new competitor in the browser section, called Origyn Web Browser (OWB) It's opensource (BSD/LGPL), developed for embedded devices and based on WebKit. http://linuxdevices.com/articles/AT5894497943.html Feel free to tell us your experiences. :) ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New looker where to start?
Well, then we have luck that you do not define what open source is :) There's a official definition of open source: http://www.opensource.org/docs/osd Thanks to all guys in the whole open source scene. 2007/8/3, wim delvaux [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On Friday 03 August 2007 17:14:36 Ian Darwin wrote: Tim Milliken wrote: I am looking into joining in on this project. Welcome aboard! Welcome aboard! I am a windows programmer and know almost nothing about Linux. Where should I start? Can anyone give me some starting points on getting started. Like do I have to be running Linux as a host development OS? While it is in theory possible to develop on other *NIX-like OSes than Linux (such as BSD), I believe it would be a major amount of work. Doing so on Windows is probably beyond the capabilities of most individuals. I am really lost but very interested in this. I have thought about running Win CE 6.0 sine it is kinda like and opensource, MS now includes the all the source for 6.0. Really? Allow me to ask a rhetorical question: Where can I download the complete source of Wince without paying anything, without signing anything and without confirming any license agreement? If I can't, it is not anything like open source. :-) well for me 'open source' does not mean GPL. 'Open source' for me means the source is available to you and you can modify it but it does not give you the right to do what you want with it. GPL that is another story. It allows you to explicitely do what you want with it (to some extent) Mind you IANAL Seriously, there is no reason you could not run another OS (like Wince), but you should not expect people on this list to divert from what they're doing to help you. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Import Duty - I have refused my delivery.
Well, you chose to live in the wrong country (or the wrong continent). You should know what expects you if YOU IMPORT a device. This is not the fault of OpenMoko (Inc.). Also there is no duty on computing devices and mobile phones in the EU - so I guess you are wrong. GBP60 sounds like VAT (15.5% in UK), seems you have ordered the basic device, so this IS VAT, no duty! VAT is levied by your country, not by FIC/OpenMoko and if you chose to import you WILL have to pay VAT every time - and the one you import from doesn't have to find out for you how much it is (as it is charged by the customs, not by the company). 2007/8/3, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Just thought you all might like to know that OpenMoko shipments are attracting import duty in the United Kingdom. Despite paying USD104.99 for 'expedited' shipping, my order arrived with a demand for GBP57.19 in import duty. This should either be factored into the shipping charge or, as these devices are technically 'computer peripherals', described as 'computer peripherals' in order that they do not attract import duty. I have REFUSED my delivery and it is being returned to the depot and, presumably, will be returned to sender. I either want a new shipment that does not attract import duty *or* I want a full refund. I know these are developer releases but I would have hoped that OpenMoko would have sorted out the international shipping issues properly. I'm annoyed! David. -- This email and any files attached are intended for the addressee and may contain information of a confidential nature. If you are not the intended recipient, be aware that this email was sent to you in error and you should not disclose, distribute, print, copy or make other use of this email or its attachments. Such actions, in fact, may be unlawful. In compliance with the various Regulations and Acts, General Dynamics United Kingdom Limited reserves the right to monitor (and examine for viruses) all emails and email attachments, both inbound and outbound. Email communications and their attachments may not be secure or error- or virus-free and the company does not accept liability or responsibility for such matters or the consequences thereof. General Dynamics United Kingdom Limited, Registered Office: 100 New Bridge Street, London EC4V 6JA. Registered in England and Wales No: 1911653. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Free Linux distro targets smartphones
I guess it wont. It doesnt even have drivers for bluetooth yet. Howevern, I'd be interested in a short comment if someone tested it. 2007/8/3, Giles Jones [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Krzysztof Kajkowski [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote : http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS6869195570.html Hmm, anyone installed this? I'm sure it may boot up, but it won't have support for the GSM hardware? --- G O Jones ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: What a heavy lunch-box!
Even without the launchbox (only have basic) I can agree. In my company we have the launchbox in big, its about 15kg :) 2007/8/3, Shakthi Kannan [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hi, Photos are here: http://shakthimaan.com/downloads/openmoko/images/package/ * The packaging was kinda neat. I didn't expect so much of foam in it. * That is one heavy lunch-box, even without anything in it! It is quite big for a lunch-box too, atleast for me. I can pack breakfast, lunch and dinner in that box. * The batteries on the stylus just pop out like Jack in the box when you unscrew them. Might want to hold onto them. * The Neo1973 is a really compact phone/PDA. The videos seem to show them quite big. Overall, I am impressed. Congratulations to the team on a good job! Shakthi P.S.: I think you guys should stop making lunch boxes, and just make phones in future. -- Shakthi Kannan http://www.shakthimaan.com ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: What a heavy lunch-box!
If you want some high res pics (but not that good quality) you can take a look here: http://gstaedtner.net/bilder/neo1973/ Feel free to do with the photos what you want :) 2007/8/3, Sudharshan S [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On Fri, 2007-08-03 at 17:36 +0200, Shakthi Kannan wrote: Hi, Photos are here: http://shakthimaan.com/downloads/openmoko/images/package/ I bet you took high res photos of the neo on purpose...Show off! Regards Sudharshan S ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: interesting red flag ui
Yet another poor iPhone-lookalike. *gape* Sorry, but can't see the clones and the original anymore. Concerning your question: rotating the screen is no problem at all since the OM kdrive has xrandr support (xrandr -o 1), but imho the screen is still physically too small to allow writing with your fingers on a standard on screen keyboard. I had another idea, maybe I will be able to show a nice gui in edje in some days (without backend then) - at moment I just have a prototype in Etk that seems to be a working concept for thumb-based input, and you can write while holding the device in one hand ( http://gstaedtner.net/enter.ogg ). If someone wants the code for trying (just frontend and 4-lines-C-printf-backend), feel free to mail me - but don't expect anything. :) 2007/8/3, Brad Midgley [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hey Red flag is showing off some very inviting touch menus. The page demonstrates them on an asus r2h which also has a gps. http://apcmag.com/5896/gallery_intels_new_mobile_internet_device_with_red_flag_linux it is intriguing but does bring up some questions... can neo pull off a touch keyboard (maybe if the screen could rotate?) are they using a hardware button to make the system menu across the bottom appear/disappear? if they're going to fill 1/5 of the screen with menu buttons, why not take it all while in menu mode? do they have apps that share space with the minimal menu? brad ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: What a heavy lunch-box!
The player is emphasis, based on Etk (EFL) and it's a mpd client. But it's running via X remote on the neo, not native. But shouldn't be a problem native, too. The same for all other apps, I only tested how they would look, they are NOT running on the device. Just for info :) And of course you can have some photos of the pouch, too - just look at my webspace in 5-10 minutes. I'll rename all the pics, so you see what you might take a look on :) (Attention, no modem users please, about 3 MB per photo!) 2007/8/3, Patrick Beck [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Am Freitag, den 03.08.2007, 19:49 +0200 schrieb Thomas Gstädtner: If you want some high res pics (but not that good quality) you can take a look here: http://gstaedtner.net/bilder/neo1973/ Feel free to do with the photos what you want :) Very cool pictures :D Can you say me which musicplayer is on this picture = http://gstaedtner.net/bilder/neo1973/dsc02285.jpg ? Perhaps you can take a high-res photo of the neo pouch, because anybody says that we can keep the stylus there? Thanks with kindly regards Patrick Beck ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Info: Neo1973 + T-Mobile Germany + USIM
Hello guys and girls, since I recieved my Neo yesterday (on my birthday ^^) I was playing around a bit. Today I was able to test the GSM functions. I use some T-Mobile USIMS (at moment 2 tested, both works!), but see: AT+CFUN=1 STR=`AT+CFUN=1' RSTR=`OK' AT+CPIN=mypin STR=`AT+CPIN=mypin' RSTR=`+EXT ERROR: 5' AT+COPS STR=`AT+COPS' EVENT: Netreg searching for network EVENT: Netreg registered (home network) LocationAreaCode = 0x950C CellID = 0xC1DA RSTR=`OK' AEVENT: Signal Quality: 15 RSTR=`OK' ATDmynumber STR=`ATDmynumber' EVENT: Outgoing Call Progress: UNKNOWN EVENT: Outgoing Call Progress: PROCEED EVENT: Outgoing Call Progress: SYNC EVENT: Outgoing Call Progress: PROGRESS EVENT: Outgoing Call Progress: ALERT EVENT: Outgoing Call Progress: DISCONNECT RSTR=`BUSY' EVENT: Outgoing Call Progress: RELEASE RSTR=`OK' EVENT: Outgoing Call Progress: UNKNOWN EVENT: Outgoing Call Progress: PROCEED EVENT: Outgoing Call Progress: SYNC EVENT: Outgoing Call Progress: PROGRESS EVENT: Outgoing Call Progress: ALERTSTR=`EVENT:' RSTR=`OK' All I can say: Yeah! :) ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Shippped!
The same here, should be the same way. 26. picked up, 28. arrived in cologne, 30. arrival at dest. 2007/7/28, Alex Riesen [EMAIL PROTECTED]: #2001: shipped to Germany (and according to UPS is awaiting customs clearance)! Seem to have taken only 2 days: 27 left US, 28 july was in Germany, Cologne, waiting for customs. Waiting for the local post office now... ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Group purchase/shipping generally
Well, after the shop went online we have seen the pricing - and even if we couldn't organize a group purchase (to germany in my cause) before, it was possible to find two other early adopters who ordered with me (or me with them) 1 hour after the shops opening. ;) Shipping is not cheap, but with 3 or more deviecs per order it's ok. Hope the do not want VAT for the devices as they are marked as non-working prototypes, but however, we will stay at under 300 EUR, what is ok for a smartphone. Just for interest: are the first 1000 devices already sold? Looking forward to have the neo in my hands (guess I am definately under the first 500), Thomas Gstädtner P.S. I wish you, OpenMoko and FIC much luck and hope the Neo will get as popular as I guess. Thanks for giving the linux community and me what we want for years! 2007/7/10, Sean Moss-Pultz [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On Jul 4, 2007, at 12:52 AM, Thomas Gstädtner wrote: before some days Hans van der Merwe asked, if it is possible to do group purchases (in South Africa). Unfortunately he got no answer, so I'd like to ask again. We can ship anywhere that UPS can ship now ;-) I'm from germany and I think there are many people here who like to buy a GTA01 device. If everyone orders a single device it are $20 to $40 for the shipment PLUS 19% VAT on the device INCLUDING the shipment. Let's assume you order a device for $300, shipment is expensive with $40 this are $340, plus VAT it are $405. Now let's assume there are 4 people who want to have a device, the package is still small enough for $40. So we pay ((($300*4)+$40)*1.19)/4 what makes $370 (+$5 for forwarding the packet inland). So everybody could save at least $30, maybe more if it would be possible to send bigger packets. I know shipping is a bit pricey now. But we just don't have our global distribution setup yet. We're working on this, but it won't be in place before our mass market launch in Oct. Sorry for any troubles this might cause. We just don't have the bandwidth to do this now. It would be nice if someone at FIC (Sean? :) ) could tell us if it would be possible to take group orders and how many devices could be shipped at once. Knowing that would be great, because groups could plan the purchase before the 9th. You can order a max of 11 devices at a time. Let us know (by email) if you need to order more and we can talk about this case-by-case. -Sean ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Binary tarball of toolchain/build environment
A tarball would be really great, because I have several problems on my amd64-gentoo, too. Starting at gcc3 (gentoo uses gcc4 per default and switching to 3 sucks) to several amd64 problems. 2007/7/13, Shakthi Kannan [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hi, On 7/13/07, vivek khurana [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As for direct connection, try setting proxy variable in shell to connect a machine behind firewalled proxy server. ... and you thought I didn't know that? I cannot connect any machine to _this_ network. I don't have any other Internet connectivity, either. Hence, the need for the tarball. Regards, SK -- Shakthi Kannan http://www.shakthimaan.com ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Shop is open :)
He Peter, please contact me concerning the group purchase :) What a pitty that there are no shipping costs in the shop :( 2007/7/8, Peter Trapp [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Shop is open :) cheers -homyx ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: community Digest, Vol 34, Issue 17
I'd also be interested in some 3d-scans of the Neo's cover, because I want a stainless-steel cover :) There are a lot of people with the equippment to build covers, but less with 3d scanners. 2007/7/3, Tim Newsom [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On Tue, 3 Jul 2007 9:50, Michael Sersen wrote: About custom case design for the Neo and beyond; I am very interested in this idea. I have a cnc router at my disposal and can make custom parts from materials such as Corian and exotic hardwoods and some soft metals. I'd love to see some spec's, maybe .dwg's or .dxf files of the current case, for measurments of stand-offs and such. ~ MAS This makes 2 of us.. Are there others with similar equip? I was working on the idea that it may be possible to use custom plastic injection or some other forms of liquid plastics to build custom shells. In addition, it may also be possible (assuming someone wanted to pay for it ) to cast in stirling silver or various gold alloys (careful about scratches) etc.. Just some ideas anyway.. --Tim ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Group purchase/shipping generally
Hello, before some days Hans van der Merwe asked, if it is possible to do group purchases (in South Africa). Unfortunately he got no answer, so I'd like to ask again. I'm from germany and I think there are many people here who like to buy a GTA01 device. If everyone orders a single device it are $20 to $40 for the shipment PLUS 19% VAT on the device INCLUDING the shipment. Let's assume you order a device for $300, shipment is expensive with $40 this are $340, plus VAT it are $405. Now let's assume there are 4 people who want to have a device, the package is still small enough for $40. So we pay ((($300*4)+$40)*1.19)/4 what makes $370 (+$5 for forwarding the packet inland). So everybody could save at least $30, maybe more if it would be possible to send bigger packets. It would be nice if someone at FIC (Sean? :) ) could tell us if it would be possible to take group orders and how many devices could be shipped at once. Knowing that would be great, because groups could plan the purchase before the 9th. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [France] Grouping orders,
2007/7/3, cedric cellier [EMAIL PROTECTED]: -[ Tue, Jul 03, 2007 at 05:44:10PM +0200, Foucault de Bonneval ] If yes, does some of you living in Paris would like to share the shipping cost ? Yes Monsieur ! ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New Oceans
I calculated the costs for germany. Think the shipping will be at about USD 20. ($300+$20)/1.34*1.19 = € 285 1.34 is relation dollar-euro, 1.19 the 19% Import-VAT in germany. Mobile phones do not have taxes in the EU. 2007/7/2, Attila Csipa [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Starting July 9th, we will launch openmoko.com and start taking orders. There was talk about an European distributor. Will that be a coordinated effort and start taking orders on that day too ? Also, it would be good to get a confirmation on the Euro prices ( = USD+taxes/duties/shipping/etc) the end customers on the old continent will have. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Screen size vs. resolution
You won't see the resolution of the display in OpenMoko apps, because they are optimized - so you will only see the fantastic quality here. In unoptimized software you will see how small all is, but this won't make the screen bigger. ;) Of course the DS can have a bigger screen, because it's a big device you wouldn't really carry with you all the time. The 2.8 inches of the Neo are fine - I wouldn't like to have a bigger screen that would make the device bigger. Remember: It's a phone, no pure PDA and no mobile gaming device. 2007/7/2, Dylan McCall [EMAIL PROTECTED]: The Neo1973's screen, with its huge resolution (for a portable device), sounds absolutely beautiful. However, I am a bit worried about its size, as the thing is smaller across than a single screen on something like a Nintendo DS, which is hardly a big screen. Does the resolution, or the size of the device relative to the screen, make a big enough difference that this smaller screen still feels pretty big? (Or, even better, is the 2.8 inches I am reading an incorrect measurement?) Bye, Dylan McCall ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New Oceans
I think you are right with the distributor-problematic. Maybe the devices will get cheaper when there's a bigger amount of orders. Imho €500 is very much money, but if I had to pay this for a free, not as in free beer, device - well, I had to pay it. ;) Also I think that distributors will get the devices cheaper, maybe at $400 or $350. So the chances to get the device for €450 or less on the free market are high. I heard people saying they'd never buy a FIC device, because it's a big bad company and they'd buy a device by HTC and try to get OpenMoko running. That's not my opinion - I'm glad and very thankful to FIC that they are the first who produce a phone as open as possible and support a completely opened sofwareplattform. The price for freedom was always high (whatever this price was, not only in money), and if I have to pay more money than usual (but don't forget, Nokia and HTC also want to have about 400 to 600 USD for their devices, the people just think the subsidized devices by mobile carriers are the normal price) and I'm willing to pay this price in money (we can be glad to get a bit freedom for money!) for the device I ever wanted. 2007/7/2, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller [EMAIL PROTECTED]: If I read the announcement of Sean correctly, * only the GTA1 device will be 300 US$ and will be shipped directly from Taiwan. * the GTA2 devices will have local distributors and will cost 450 US$. Secondly, a distributor has to handle warranty and marketing, answer phone calls, do repairing, has to run his ordering system, pay insurances and income taxes, and prepare for currency exchange rate fluctuations etc. This usually adds *** at least 10% ***. So I would not expect that the GTA2 device is available for less than: ($450 + $20) / 1.34 * 1.19 * 1.10 = 459 EUR Therefore I would even prepare for 499 EUR and we all can be happy if it is less and not more. Also consider: they have produced 1000 GTA1 devices and want to sell them at $300. This is 300 k $ revenue. Does this cover production cost? maybe. Does this cover development cost (I would expect that they have to pay salaries for at least 10 engineers plus Sean's travel expenses...): no. So, we simply should not expect the device to be the cheapest one we can get. And although we have for the first time the freedom to install our own software on the Neo devices for free, we (and our friends) have to purchase a lot of devices to finance the future hardware development! Don't expect that FIC (or anybody else) can and will subsidize the new company for years. So we should see any additional price tag as the price for openness and as a donation to keep the hardware development wheel spinning. Am 02.07.2007 um 09:16 schrieb Thomas Gstädtner: I calculated the costs for germany. Think the shipping will be at about USD 20. ($300+$20)/1.34*1.19 = € 285 1.34 is relation dollar-euro, 1.19 the 19% Import-VAT in germany. Mobile phones do not have taxes in the EU. 2007/7/2, Attila Csipa [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Starting July 9th, we will launch openmoko.com and start taking orders. There was talk about an European distributor. Will that be a coordinated effort and start taking orders on that day too ? Also, it would be good to get a confirmation on the Euro prices ( = USD+taxes/duties/shipping/ etc) the end customers on the old continent will have. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Stylus, the iPhone, and multi touch screens
Imho the system with pen- and hand-based applications is the most useful one. I own a TomTom 5xx-Series, I used TomTom on my Nokia 7710 (only-touchscreen-phone) and I know that it is easy to use without a stylus. TomTom has a good interface, but the sort of software (navigation) needs relatively less input, so a stylus is not needed. But it's something else with office software, terminal-emulation, and what else you might use the Neo or other OpenMoko-phones in future. This sort of software cannot be used without a stylus effective. Also graphics software which needs very exact input also needs a stylus (well, call me crazy, but I used the graphics software, which is similar to windows' paint, on my 7710 for making outlines and other drawings). There will be sooo much software in future and there will be so less software which can be used by only having the fingers. 2007/6/28, Fabien [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On 6/28/07, Cailan Halliday [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Does the multi-touch screen make this easier somehow? It might help a bit in corner cases, but what really makes or breaks it is a proper, global thinking of the user experience (which is generally not the same, and even sometimes directly opposed to GFX effects). It requires a lot of experiments, an ability to empathize with non-developers... many abilities considered non-technicals and boring by most hackers, unfortunately. This is *the* skill on which Apple built most of its successes, and something open source software tends to have a hard time getting right. However, user experience is especially important for a phone, so maybe openmoko will experience some great improvements over other OSS projects? IMO, the best thing technical people can do for openmoko is making it easy to script/extend/modify by moderately tech-savvy people: since hardcore hackers suck at building usable UIs, the best they can do is offering to new, different talents the opportunity to get it right. Or at least better. I'd bet on Lua (www.lua.org), because it's tiny, powerful, easy to embed, designed for easy interfacing with C and C++, and has a very gentle learning curve if you don't use advanced features. Let's provide bindings for UI bricks, phone features, and you're set. Look at http://www.lua.org/wshop05/Hamburg.pdf for integration with a multitask, non-trivial C/C++ libraries set (that's the debriefing of the of adobe photoshop lightroom's implementation, in lua), or http://lua-users.org/lists/lua-l/2004-04/msg00164.html about non-developers easily getting hands-down with Lua (here, XBox level designers). I work for a wireless embedded devices builder, and you can't even imagine the kind of productivity boost Lua provides. Attempts with Python or Smalltalk never brought that kind of power (and Scheme scares everybody). Don't forget that easily upgradeable firmwares are not so common on phones, and phone builders don't want to modify the UI of shipped products. That means they don't have the best user feedbacks possible, whereas that's something openmoko will get. Up to us to exploit it efficiently, instead of focusing on skins and other mostly useless glitter. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: rough seas
Looking forward to hearing from you. ;) 2007/6/27, Sean Moss-Pultz [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On Wed, 2007-06-27 at 09:15 +0200, Tomasz Zielinski wrote: 2007/6/20, Sean Moss-Pultz [EMAIL PROTECTED]: In less than a week, we will update you about what's going on at FIC/ OpenMoko, the status of GTA01/02, and our plans for selling these neos. One week has passed silently... Almost done with the announcement...I've still got a day left (Taiwan time) ;-) The delay is not writing the announcement, but finalizing things internally so we can publicly commit. -Sean ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: rough seas
Why shouldn't it? OpenMoko is based on and contains several standard-opensource-software which can be built for several architectures. It's not WinMobile which only runs on arm :) 2007/6/22, Luit van Drongelen [EMAIL PROTECTED]: OpenMoko can be built to run on regular i386 hardware (quote from http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/OpenMoko_under_QEMU ) I guess it's a feature of OpenEmbedded :) -- Luit On 6/22/07, Paul A. Lambert [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is anyone successfully developing openmoko software on other platforms? Quite a bit of good work could get done if there was an x86 openmoko build. Of course, it might be impossible to actually make a phone call, but other interesting components could be developed. Paul On Jun 21, 2007, at 3:50 AM, Florent THIERY wrote: So please wish us luck. We're just about at the tipping point. Good luck :) I think it is normal for us to wait, as normally the hardware engineering is in a complete black-out, with delays and revisions. Let's all be patient, that's it. Cheers, et bon courage !!! Florent ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New wishlist item: Side-mounted touch strip sensor
That's exactly what I already was talking about in the dasher-thread, because this touchpad would be a cool device to control different things, especially for dasher text-input in 1D-mode (or 2D). Glad that you found a matching device. Imho it shouldn't be a problem for left-handed people, too. Before some years, I also was left-handed, but I switched to the right hand. I cannot write by hand with my left-hand anymore (would need some training), but controlling a mouse, touchpad, trackstick, joystick, ... with my left hand isn't really a problem. But it would also be possible to use the forefinger with the right hand and the thumb with the left hand, so everyone woul be able to use it.e Btw: RIM shows with their blackberry devices (at least the older ones) how cool a such device can be. A touchpad would be even better than the scrollbutton. 2007/6/19, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hi All, I've added a new item on the hardware wishlist: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Wish_List_-_Hardware#Side-Mounted_Touch_St rip Add a touch strip sensor onto the side of the phone which can be used to scroll. By having it on the side you can use your thumb to scroll comfortably while holding the phone one-handed. An 8-element capacitive sensor would work wonderfully and be easy to fab using either a Quantum QT411 (http://www.qprox.com/products/qslide_qt411.php) or Analog Devices AD7143 (http://www.analog.com/en/prod/0,2877,AD7143,00.html) controller. The Analog Devices chip seems better suited due to it's smaller allowable element size. With the AD7143 you can have an 8-element (128-position) 25mm long strip - Perfect!. This is an idea which was floated on the SVHMPC list a few months ago. The only possible issue is those people who are left-handed. Perhaps a strip on each side would be the best way to go. :-) Cheers, Tom ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New wishlist item: Side-mounted touch strip sensor
Yes, a kind of double rocker-push-button (is there a correct english word? ^^) would be fine, too. Not two buttons, but one button with 2 contacts (one on each side) and a neutral position in mid. Here's a picture I found via google, to imagine what I mean: http://awshifting.com/pictures/rocker1.jpg 2007/6/19, Joe Pfeiffer [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Ortwin Regel writes: No, the PSP stick is crap. We don't really need anything analog, the touchscreen does that fine. What we could use are some decent, solid buttons and/or a d-pad. I could also see some applications for a Blackberry style wheel, for example volume control and scrolling. I don't think using a futuristic sensor would be a good idea because we already have an analog device without feedback which is the touchscreen. I'll agree with this -- two buttons (with good tactile feedback) on the side give me exactly what I want for scrolling and volume control. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Will Openmoko ever see the light of day? Was Re: Concern for usability and ergonomics
Some (pretty good) news: http://gnumonks.org/~laforge/weblog/2007/06/15/#20070615-gta01-factory-trip 2007/6/15, Gabriel Ambuehl [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On Thursday 14 June 2007 23:45:29 Jonathon Suggs wrote: Well as far as we know (no *official* word) the models (GTA-01) that you have actually are vaporware as far as we are concerned since they are not going to be mass producing them in favor of rolling out the GTA-02's. Which assuming GTA-02 doesn't take much longer, would be a bad thing why? ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: cellphone-sized X86 PC motherboard potential OpenMoko platform?
That would explain why Intel sold XScale :) IHMO there is a direct relation between the instruction set and the power consumption: The more complex a processor is the more power it needs. Let's explain it the easy (and not fully correct) way: When you want to see the complexity of a microprocessor in numbers you can take the number of transistors. ARM9 Chips are under 10 million, VIA C7 about 25 million, Intel Core2Duo about 300 million, IBM Power6 800 million. This all are modern (except the ARM) and powerful processors and the more transistors they have, the more power they need. Of course there are chips with less transistors needing much more power, there are several reasons for this. But as long x86 is more complex than other architectures it will need more power. Well, I'm definately not a expert, if one reads this, maybe he can explain :) P.S. Current XScale are still producesd in 180nm, Intel is down to 65/35nm. The leakage current may be higher in ARM/XScale devices than it could (or should) be. 2007/6/10, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller [EMAIL PROTECTED]: So I still see no reason for having a energy comsuming x86-monster in my phone. :) If I read all the rumours around iPhone and new UMPC platforms correctly, Intel is working heavily on lowest power versions of x86- Instruction set compatible CPUs. And IMHO there is only a very weak relation between a processor's instruction set and its power consumption. Nikolaus Schaller ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Yet another contender in the market?
True. But there really is a marked beside the mainstream. The Nokia 770/N800 is the proof. This devices is not really cheap (about $400), has not many abilities (no GSM, no DVB, no keyboard, only WiFi) but it sold good enough to continue the productline. OpenMoko can do that better. Every linux-fan must have such a phone. Every opensource-fan, too. As soon there is some more additional software available for OpenMoko the Neo will probably be the most useful smartphone out there. The possibilities with the GTA02 hardware will be amazing. Let's hope FIC will release GTA01 for all developers and interested people soon - that definatly will cause a solid increase of available software. 2007/6/7, Tim Newsom [EMAIL PROTECTED]: You and *I* feel that way... But the general public will be taking stock of the appearance and ease of use etc... Besides.. I mentioned it so that we can take a look at the view some general person my have of a new device and see how we can improve upon any weaknesses. There will be no shortage of devices competing for the top spot... And against the iphone. Many, Many all touchscreen devices will be out there.. And we are not going to be first... So we can at least acknowledge the competition and work to improve what we can. --Tim On Thu, 7 Jun 2007 11:18, Thomas Gstädtner wrote: There already was Samsung phones with HSDPA support which was slower than normal UMTS phones of other manufacturers. Also flash lite might be good looking, but it is definately no smartphone platform. At least you cannot use the UI for additional apps (must be an overlay). The display resolution is very poor for a such big screen. For me this devices is pretty uninteresting, and even if it'd be able to run openmoko that wouldn't matter for me. Why should I give my money to a company that doesn't support opensource only to use their hardware with hacks and openmoko? Let's hope OpenMoko and the FIC Neo1973 will be successful and FIC produces more open phones in future. 2007/6/7, Tim Newsom [EMAIL PROTECTED] : Hmm... I thought it listed wifi and bluetooth on samsungs website... --Tim On Thu, 7 Jun 2007 8:57, Mark McClellan wrote: nice. very nice. i really hope this is close to the Moko v2 hardware. it's what i'm waiting for Mark On 6/7/07, Eric Heinemann [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If I remember correctly, the F700 is using a Flash lite interface. Even though it does not have WiFi, it does have 7.2M HSDPA :) I am pretty sure it does have bluetooth though. Look here: http://www.gsmarena.com/samsung_f700-1849.php or here: http://www.phonearena.com/htmls/Samsung-SGH-F700-phone-p_1941.html -Eric - Original Message From: Steven ** [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Openmoko community@lists.openmoko.org Sent: Thursday, June 7, 2007 9:44:30 AM Subject: Re: Yet another contender in the market? The wallpaper on the F700 from the first Google result ( http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/cellphones/apple-iphone-vs-samsung-f700-which-is-touchscreenier-235112.php ) is a total rip-off of the Ubuntu default theme. I doubt that they're actually running Ubuntu (although I think Ubuntu is getting into the mobile market). The features don't really seem comparable. No wifi and no bluetooth. And the screen is even smaller and lower resolution than the iPhone. -Steven On 6/7/07, Tim Newsom [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Has anyone else seen the samsung F700? Its features are pretty nice... No idea on the OS but I would definitly take one over an IPhone... If it performs anything like it looks... Hehe. Its got very good specs. --Tim ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community Never miss an email again! Yahoo! Toolbar alerts you the instant new Mail arrives. Check it out. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- Dangling carrots usually contain a hook. 09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0 --Tim ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [SVHMPC] concept phone with only a touchscreen for UI
You are right, and that was before some years. They used this concept in the whole P-Series except the newest one (P990i) afaik. 2007/6/5, kenneth marken [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Bradley Hook wrote: A possible solution for this has been discussed under an accessibility thread. The Maestro is a simple (yet effective) clip-on cover for PocketPCs. There are a few different versions of it, which work with various different brands and models of PocketPCs. Check out a picture at: http://www.engadget.com/2004/07/01/the-maestro-visuaides-pocket-pc-for-the-blind/ The device is simply real buttons that, when pressed, place pressure on a specific portion of the underlaying touchscreen. Real tactile feedback without any hardware modifications to the underlaying device. A software UI written to coincide with the specific button pattern is the only thing needed. You also get the advantage of very specific pressure points, allowing you to cram more hot areas into the UI than when using direct finger input. i could have sworn that sonyericsson did something similar for a numpad with their P800... Now, what would be novel and cool for the Neo is if we could design a clip-on device that was also mostly (or completely) transparent, so the screen could be visible while still providing the tactile interface. Keeping some of the various disabilities in mind while designing the Neo OpenMoko could really make it a hit in this sector. Pretty much every phone solution out there for the blind is a real hack job, a system capable of catering directly to these folks would be welcome. (FYI, I work at a school for the blind). ~Bradley Chris Palmer wrote: Interesting ideas, but I'm not sure that any adequately handle the tactile needs of a touch typist. Without looking at the keys, I can feel the nubs on the home keys on my phone's mini qwerty to get lined up again. I also have the same concern with using a laser projected keyboard (even tho potentially high on the coolness scale). With just a big flat surface then there's no way to keep you lined up on your keys at speed. I type pretty fast on my mini qwerty. All my personal email for the last few years have been 99.9% written on this thing, including this one. -Chris On Sat, 2 Jun 2007 2:10 pm, Jon Phillips wrote: On Sat, 2007-06-02 at 13:35 -0700, Matthew S. Hamrick wrote: Well... for a while I was thinking about implanting a strong magnet under the skin in one of my fingers to detect alternating current. There are a few people out there who have done this and they say they can feel a very mild wiggle when the magnet comes near a wire carrying AC. It might be possible to detect the current going through the touchscreen as you make contact with it. But that's probably not a mainstream solution. That sounds like a stelarc solution: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stelarc What about a glove or thimble that you could put on your finger? How much does vibration tech. kill the battery on phones? Some type of current detection sounds interesting... Jon On Jun 2, 2007, at 1:11 PM, Jon Phillips wrote: Yes, it seems pretty clear that screens are the way forward rather than moving parts. I've seen a few solutions to the tactile feedback issue, with the main being have the phone vibrate slightly upon key press, along with sounds. Matthew (and others), have you heard of others? ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- Jon Phillips San Francisco, CA USA PH 510.499.0894 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.rejon.org MSN, AIM, Yahoo Chat: kidproto Jabber Chat: [EMAIL PROTECTED] IRC: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New HTC Touch
Ok, I do not know the cheap HTC's. The one I have and need for work uses a big and mighty XScale :) Well - the 612 MHz doesn't make the dialing software of WM5 in 640x480 faster. Really unusable. 2007/6/5, Oleg Gusev [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Am Dienstag, 5. Juni 2007 18:17 schrieb Fabien: As a former HTC customer I can only agree: hardware is great Are you joking ? This is the cheapest mass-market HTC design based on OMAP850 CPU. Oleg. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Voice/Command recongnition
Google and the keywords linux voice recognition are your friends. (e.g. XVoice, ViaVoice, CMU Sphinx, cvoicecontrol, ...) 2007/6/4, wim delvaux [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hi, Do any of you know packages that would allow vocal command recognition much like voice dialling on some cell phones ? This would be handy to start applications without having to navigate through menus. W ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Neo1973 Update!
Wow, that all sounds really awsome! But there's one thing I don't understand: I expected the Phase 2 Hardware to be the same as in Phase 1+. So does this new informations mean P1+ will get this fantastic hardware upgrade, too or is it just for P2 which will be different to P1+ then? The Neo seems to become more and more the ultimate killer phone. :-) ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: information efficient text enty using dasher
Thank you for this post chris, nice to know, that dasher was running on a so old and slow device already. I'm see the things like you do: Touchscreen means you always have to stare at the device for making inputs. Like I said - I had a nokia 7710 before and it was nearby impossible to use it blind. Even if you had a fullscreen T9-keyboad with huge keys you had to check the display, because you cannot feel which key you are pressing. I also like the driving a car comparison :) 2007/5/30, Chris Ball [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hi, I'm one of the Dasher developers, and am also interested in hacking on OpenMoko. So, getting Dasher going is fairly likely. This pretty much means that you have to stare at the display all the time when inputting text. Yes, this is the main difference between Dasher and T9. However, the comments about needing a lot of screen resolution or CPU aren't so true -- we did Dasher on the iPaq seven years ago at full-speed and using 150x150 resolution, and it works great. The reason we get away with not so much resolution is that you're only really ever being asked to choose between five or so probable letters at each turn, and it doesn't take much screen space to show those, and you can predict whereabouts you're headed by knowing the alphabetic order of which character comes next. Sure - in theory, dasher may approach arithmetic coding in terms of information input. (I'm not sure what you mean by approach -- Dasher *is* an arithmetic coder, and matches the information-theoretic efficiency of one in terms of bits/input to characters/output.) But unless you can do the coding in your head, you've got to stare at the screen, making it less useful for environments where you've got vibration, sunlight, walking down the street, or less likely for a phone, if you're blind. Yes, but the Neo doesn't have a keyboard, and doesn't have keys for T9 that you can use without looking at the screen, so I don't think this is a useful criticism. Dasher's very tolerant of vibration and mistakes, unlike T9 on a touchscreen -- it's much like driving a car, in that if you oversteer or understeer you just correct yourself later, because it's all about navigation and where you end up. We can type easily over 20wpm on the iPaq with a touchscreen and stylus. Thanks! - Chris. -- Chris Ball [EMAIL PROTECTED] One Laptop per Child ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Fwd: tomtom on the Neo1973
Well, OpenMoko still is mainly a phone platform, not a gps platform. ;) The Neo will me sold als phone with the option to install software, not because of its GPS chip. There will be much free software which will make the Neo a great smartphone (hopefully ^^). TomTom ported its software to series60 as smartphones became popular. They also ported it to WinCE/Mobile. I'm sure they will port it to OpenMoko as they see a market. This is a totally new platform, so nobody could expect that TomTom promises a port. As you see I'm confident. :-) ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: information efficient text enty using dasher
Finger Splash looks very cool and useful. Imho a cool idea. @[EMAIL PROTECTED]: You are right, abcde... keyboards can be used for blind typing. But not on a only-touchscreen-phone. I used a Nokia 7710 for about 1.5 years and typing blind was simply impossible. Theres no feedback at all. 2007/5/30, Ben Burdette [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Dasher is only really information efficient considering the input only. The output stream needs to be quite dense. This pretty much means that you have to stare at the display all the time when inputting text. Sure - in theory, dasher may approach arithmetic coding in terms of information input. But unless you can do the coding in your head, you've got to stare at the screen, making it less useful for environments where you've got vibration, sunlight, walking down the street, or less likely for a phone, if you're blind. (Hmm. /me ponders dasher with audio prompting) T9 or even abc def ... you can use blind. Even qwerty with real hardware keys. (I think on-screen keyb would be optimistic :) ) To me, it looks like Dasher has a some drawbacks: one, it seems to be CPU intensive - there's a lot of animation going on during text entry. Not a problem for PCs, but it might not be optimal on a low power device. two, its storage intensive. You have to have a dictionary of some sort available for it to do its prediction. Or, several dictionaries, each for a different type of text entry (like english and japanese, or english and C++ programming). three, it takes up a lot of screen space. If you are just doing pure text entry without needing to look at something else, that's ok. But I'd rather it didn't take up the whole screen so that I can't see an IM that I'm replying to, or several lines of the website form I'm filling out. That's not to say I'm against Dasher. But I'd like to see a lot of flexibility available in openmoko text entry so that I can change to dasher, or some other text entry method when needed, or just to try things out. I hope someone will implement it for openmoko, together with several other alternatives for doing text entry. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Fwd: tomtom on the Neo1973
Well, this answer is not too bad and maybe better than expected. will keep an eye on it could mean, that TomTom will wait and see how the first OpenMoko Phones (Neo1973 Phase 2) sell. If the sales are ok, maybe they release their software for OpenMoko. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: information efficient text enty using dasher
Imho it would be fantastic to have 2 navkeys at the right side of the phone to use dasher in the 1D-mode. So it could be possible to write texts using the right thumb what means typing with only one hand would be possible. A touchpad like seen on devices like the Cowon iAudio 6 or the Creative Zen-Touch-Series would be even better. Btw: I tried dasher for some minutes and its a bit hard at the beginning. After 5-10 mins of training it works very well! ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
GPS Navigation Software (roadster)
Hello, several times there was the question about (free) navigation software for OpenMoko. I found an possible alternative to gpsdrive: roadster [1] It seems that it is in a relatively early stage and I couldn't test it, but it looks nice. I also don't know what kind of maps can be used. Currently it uses a mysql database (don't know for what), maybe this should be replaced through sqlite for OM. Maybe someone wants to test the software and contact the developer. Greets, thomasg [1] http://roadsterproject.wordpress.com/about/ ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Iphone eat your heart out.
This new 8GB microSD is SDHC Class4 Compliant. According to the wiki the Neo supports SDHC. Maybe a owner of a p0 device could check this with a smaller (but available :) ) SDHC microsSD. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: First impressions of Neo1973
The same for me. Especially I'm interessted in the speed, the phone functions (address book, dialer, history, ...) and the voice quality. 2007/5/14, mathew davis [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I would be interested to know what you thought were strong suits of the phone. Programs you liked, and other things that the phone does well. Just curious I guess. I like hearing about the phone from people who have actual models. Thanks, Matt ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: firefox for mobiles
As announced this is a long term project, so there will be no firefox mobile in 2007 and maybe not in 2008. Firefox doesnt only use a massive amount of RAM, it also needs a powerful CPU. Imho a browser based on KHTML/WebKit, especially S60WebKit would be the best choise. Whoever has used one of the new S60 3rd Edition will agree, because that browser simply rocks (and is damn fast!). S60WebKit is partly OpenSource, only the UI isn't. http://opensource.nokia.com/projects/S60browser/ ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Size and weight considerations for future Openmoko devices
Please consider dpi comparison in which Neo is unbeatable winner. The display of the Neo is definitely great, but I agree with Sven, the device is a bit too big. Especially it is too thick. I think the iPhone can only be so thin because the battery is built-in. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
