Re: [Gta04-owner] GTA04 Boot speed comparison

2011-09-22 Thread Patryk Benderz
[cut]
 As soon as we have learned how to really make a new case, We will
 choose a new display module and start...
Any chance for capacitive one? It is much better suited for every day
usage IMHO.
-- 
Patryk LeadMan Benderz
Linux Registered User #377521
()  ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail 
/\  www.asciiribbon.org   - against proprietary attachments


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Re: [Gta04-owner] GTA04 Boot speed comparison

2011-09-22 Thread Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller
Hi Patryk,

Am 22.09.2011 um 09:08 schrieb Patryk Benderz:

 [cut]
 As soon as we have learned how to really make a new case, We will
 choose a new display module and start...
 Any chance for capacitive one? It is much better suited for every day
 usage IMHO.

Sure. In 2-3 years - when we can start a completely new design - it may
be the most common type of touch screens.

For the time being, the GTA04 uses the same display as the Freerunner.
The main reason is that it fits exactly into the case and 285 dpi still
plays in the world class league.




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Re: [Gta04-owner] GTA04 Boot speed comparison

2011-09-22 Thread Rui Miguel Silva Seabra

Em 21-09-2011 18:28, Alon Ivtsan escreveu:

The video doesn't work in IceCat using HTML5 (WebM). A free phone
should deliver its videos in a patent unencumbered format whenever
possible.
YouTube converts do WebM, but it isn't instantly (perhaps a regular 
batch job?).


Give it a couple of days and it should play like that :)

Rui

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Re: [Gta04-owner] GTA04 Boot speed comparison

2011-09-22 Thread Thomas Gstädtner
On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 10:37, Rui Miguel Silva Seabra r...@1407.org wrote:
 Em 21-09-2011 18:28, Alon Ivtsan escreveu:

 The video doesn't work in IceCat using HTML5 (WebM). A free phone
 should deliver its videos in a patent unencumbered format whenever
 possible.

 YouTube converts do WebM, but it isn't instantly (perhaps a regular batch
 job?).

 Give it a couple of days and it should play like that :)

 Rui


Worked for me right away in Firefox. Actually most videos on youtube,
especially very recent ones, do.
Only some old ones are not yet converted.

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Re: [Gta04-owner] GTA04 Boot speed comparison

2011-09-21 Thread Christ van Willegen
Hi all,

On Wed, Sep 21, 2011 at 13:45, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller
h...@goldelico.com wrote:
 The winner is ...

The one that is the first to boot!

Christ van Willegen
-- 
09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0

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Re: [Gta04-owner] GTA04 Boot speed comparison

2011-09-21 Thread Davide Scaini
Haha great!
I'm definitely curious about gta04...
(what is missing for gta04 imho is a new case... the actual case of gta02 is
too high in the borders of the screen)
But the comparison is a bit unfair... try to boot shr from nand i'm sure i
will be faster than iphone.
d


On Wed, Sep 21, 2011 at 1:49 PM, Christ van Willegen
cvwille...@gmail.comwrote:

 Hi all,

 On Wed, Sep 21, 2011 at 13:45, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller
 h...@goldelico.com wrote:
  The winner is ...

 The one that is the first to boot!

 Christ van Willegen
 --
 09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0

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Re: [Gta04-owner] GTA04 Boot speed comparison

2011-09-21 Thread Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller

Am 21.09.2011 um 14:54 schrieb Davide Scaini:

 Haha great!
 I'm definitely curious about gta04... 
 (what is missing for gta04 imho is a new case... the actual case of gta02 is 
 too high in the borders of the screen)

As soon as we have learned how to really make a new case, We will
choose a new display module and start...

If we take the time from the GTA04 idea to the current status,
we can expect that a new case comes in 2014...

But I am sure it will come. Like Rome was built in one day, but eventually was 
:)



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Re: [Gta04-owner] GTA04 Boot speed comparison

2011-09-21 Thread Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller

Am 21.09.2011 um 14:54 schrieb Davide Scaini:

 But the comparison is a bit unfair... try to boot shr from nand i'm sure i 
 will be faster than iphone.


We just did not have a GTA02 with a working installation in NAND, except that 
old SD card
we use for device testing after buzz-fixes.

For us, the GTA02 devices have mostly become sources for plastic parts and are 
not used
for developing or installing new software :)

So I respect that the newer versions e.g. of SHR and QtMoko are booting much 
faster.

Nevertheless, the GTA04 isn't optimized at all. Firstly, it waits 1 second on 
the RS232
for breaking into U-Boot. Then, it loads the 3 MByte kernel with most modules 
compiled in,
and prints the full boot log to the RS232 interface (limited to 115 kbit/s = 
ca. 10k characters
per second). Finally, the rootfs is a plain standard Debian Squeeze without any 
optimization
for boot speed.

For me, the most surprising result is that it already boots without any 
optimizations
significantly faster into GUI mode than the iPhone.

BTW: David has reported that the original QtMoko rootfs image does boot and 
allows to
do some useful things on the GTA04. So it does not appear difficult to adapt a 
real and full
QtMoko (or SHR or hackable:1 or ...) release for the GTA04.


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Re: [Gta04-owner] GTA04 Boot speed comparison

2011-09-21 Thread Alon Ivtsan
The video doesn't work in IceCat using HTML5 (WebM). A free phone
should deliver its videos in a patent unencumbered format whenever
possible.

On 9/21/11, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller h...@goldelico.com wrote:

 Am 21.09.2011 um 14:54 schrieb Davide Scaini:

 But the comparison is a bit unfair... try to boot shr from nand i'm sure i
 will be faster than iphone.


 We just did not have a GTA02 with a working installation in NAND, except
 that old SD card
 we use for device testing after buzz-fixes.

 For us, the GTA02 devices have mostly become sources for plastic parts and
 are not used
 for developing or installing new software :)

 So I respect that the newer versions e.g. of SHR and QtMoko are booting much
 faster.

 Nevertheless, the GTA04 isn't optimized at all. Firstly, it waits 1 second
 on the RS232
 for breaking into U-Boot. Then, it loads the 3 MByte kernel with most
 modules compiled in,
 and prints the full boot log to the RS232 interface (limited to 115 kbit/s =
 ca. 10k characters
 per second). Finally, the rootfs is a plain standard Debian Squeeze without
 any optimization
 for boot speed.

 For me, the most surprising result is that it already boots without any
 optimizations
 significantly faster into GUI mode than the iPhone.

 BTW: David has reported that the original QtMoko rootfs image does boot and
 allows to
 do some useful things on the GTA04. So it does not appear difficult to adapt
 a real and full
 QtMoko (or SHR or hackable:1 or ...) release for the GTA04.


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Re: [Gta04-owner] GTA04 Boot speed comparison

2011-09-21 Thread Timo Juhani Lindfors
Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller h...@goldelico.com writes:
 per second). Finally, the rootfs is a plain standard Debian Squeeze without 
 any optimization
 for boot speed.

This probably means it is armel and not armhf yet?


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Re: [Gta04-owner] GTA04 Boot speed comparison

2011-09-21 Thread Denis 'GNUtoo' Carikli
 BTW: David has reported that the original QtMoko rootfs image does boot and 
 allows to
 do some useful things on the GTA04. So it does not appear difficult to adapt 
 a real and full
 QtMoko (or SHR or hackable:1 or ...) release for the GTA04.
I wrote a porting guide for SHR(we also have one for android phones
specificities...)
it's here:
http://www.shr-project.org/trac/wiki/Device%20Porting%20Guide

So everyone is welcome to port SHR to it and to improve the guide(it's
rather minimalist right now)

Denis.


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Re: [Gta04-owner] GTA04 Boot speed comparison

2011-09-21 Thread Timo Juhani Lindfors
Alon Ivtsan alonivt...@gmail.com writes:
 The video doesn't work in IceCat using HTML5 (WebM).

Try youtube-dl and vlc. Tested and works at least in debian unstable.

 A free phone should deliver its videos in a patent unencumbered format
 whenever possible.

Your position is that webm is patent encumbered but theora isn't? I
don't know, I'm just trying to ask for clarification.

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Re: [Gta04-owner] GTA04 Boot speed comparison

2011-09-21 Thread Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller

Am 21.09.2011 um 19:29 schrieb Timo Juhani Lindfors:

 Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller h...@goldelico.com writes:
 per second). Finally, the rootfs is a plain standard Debian Squeeze without 
 any optimization
 for boot speed.
 
 This probably means it is armel and not armhf yet?

Yes.

BTW: what is armhf? Never heard that...


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Re: [Gta04-owner] GTA04 Boot speed comparison

2011-09-21 Thread Timo Juhani Lindfors
Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller h...@goldelico.com writes:
 BTW: what is armhf? Never heard that...

  A lot of modern ARM boards and devices ship with a floating-point unit
   (FPU) but the current Debian armel port doesn't take much advantage of
   it.

   A new ARM port requiring the presence of a FPU would help squeeze the
   most performance juice out of hardware with a FPU.

-- http://wiki.debian.org/ArmHardFloatPort


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Re: [Gta04-owner] GTA04 Boot speed comparison

2011-09-21 Thread Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller

Am 21.09.2011 um 20:03 schrieb Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller:

 
 Am 21.09.2011 um 19:29 schrieb Timo Juhani Lindfors:
 
 Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller h...@goldelico.com writes:
 per second). Finally, the rootfs is a plain standard Debian Squeeze without 
 any optimization
 for boot speed.
 
 This probably means it is armel and not armhf yet?
 
 Yes.
 
 BTW: what is armhf? Never heard that...


Sorry, now the dime has fallen...

hf = hard float.

Good question. I don't know, but even float operations
run at significant speeups. I have some test application
that did calculate a Mandelbrot set on a Zaurus or on the GTA02
in approx. 250 seconds. On the GTA04 the same code (with
a armv4 cross-compiler! I.e.. no ARM 7 or NEON optimizations)
just needs 2 seconds.

So hard float may not be as important as it was.

Nikolaus


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Re: [Gta04-owner] GTA04 Boot speed comparison

2011-09-21 Thread Alon Ivtsan
Theora is fine as well but Youtube doesn't support it as far as I
know. The only unencumbered format supported by Youtube is VP8 and
Vorbis in a WebM container. The GTA04 boot video can be downloaded in
WebM format using UnPlug for example but it cannot be viewed online
without downloading when using HTML5 on IceCat. The easiest way to
make videos accessible to free software users is to upload them to
Youtube in the WebM format. More details are available here:
http://libreplanet.org/wiki/Group:PlayOgg/WebM_recipe

On 9/21/11, Timo Juhani Lindfors timo.lindf...@iki.fi wrote:
 Alon Ivtsan alonivt...@gmail.com writes:
 The video doesn't work in IceCat using HTML5 (WebM).

 Try youtube-dl and vlc. Tested and works at least in debian unstable.

 A free phone should deliver its videos in a patent unencumbered format
 whenever possible.

 Your position is that webm is patent encumbered but theora isn't? I
 don't know, I'm just trying to ask for clarification.

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Re: [Gta04-owner] GTA04 Boot speed comparison

2011-09-21 Thread jcommeli
 The video doesn't work in IceCat using HTML5 (WebM). A free phone
 should deliver its videos in a patent unencumbered format whenever
 possible.
I second that…

Anyhow, it makes me even more curious (-;

Johan Commelin


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