Re: [Gta04-owner] Clarification
Am 09.11.2011 um 20:23 schrieb Bob Ham: On Tue, 2011-11-08 at 10:07 +0100, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote: does this mean that you won't be shipping the GTA04 boards until you are able to mass produce the new cases ? No, it means that they will be made available as a motherboard replacement for existing GTA01 and GTA02 cases. Ah! I didn't realise the GTA02 and GTA01 cases were compatible. Just to be 100% sure about this, could you possibly answer explicitly: will the GTA04 board fit in a Neo 1973 (GTA01) case, with the antenna, display, speaker, battery, etc, all working? Yes. The cases are almost identical. Only difference is the white speakerbox. It carries two speakers for the GTA01 and just one in the GTA02 (plus a hole for a WLAN module). Since we don't have the modular WLAN approach in the GTA04, we could add back the contact points for the second speaker. But it is not tested in detail. Does anyone of the Early Adopters have installed the GTA04 board in a GTA01? Nikolaus ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [Gta04-owner] Clarification
On Tue, 2011-11-08 at 10:07 +0100, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote:
does this mean that you won't be shipping the GTA04 boards until you are
able to mass produce the new cases ?
No, it means that they will be made available as a motherboard replacement for
existing GTA01 and GTA02 cases.
Ah! I didn't realise the GTA02 and GTA01 cases were compatible. Just
to be 100% sure about this, could you possibly answer explicitly: will
the GTA04 board fit in a Neo 1973 (GTA01) case, with the antenna,
display, speaker, battery, etc, all working?
Bob
--
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Re: [Gta04-owner] Clarification
Am 08.11.2011 um 09:59 schrieb Jorge Costa: Hi Nikolaus, does this mean that you won't be shipping the GTA04 boards until you are able to mass produce the new cases ? No, it means that they will be made available as a motherboard replacement for existing GTA01 and GTA02 cases. Of course as soon as possible. jorge Hi Antonio, Am 08.11.2011 um 08:11 schrieb Evgeniy Ginzburg: On Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 08:43, Poul Kristensen bcc5...@gmail.com wrote: Hello Anton It seems to replace the one in GTA02 :) http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GTA04 Poul 2011/11/8 Antonio Murdaca amurdoc...@gmail.com: Hello all, Just have a doubt! When the GTA04A4 will be ready to everyone, will it be shipped with a case (with the camera module etc etc) included or will it be only the board to be mounted on an existing GTA02?? Well, the picture isn't that black and white. We are curently preparing the production of the next batch of GTA04 boards. These will be made available as a motherboard replacement for existing GTA01 and GTA02 cases. But we are working to get a new case and some ideas have already been developed and proposed, e.g. a wooden case. I have no idea how long it will need, but when finished, we will have the boards plus cases. So that you can choose to take you GTA01 or GTA02 case or a new one. The camera will be an optional module for self-install since not everyone wants to have one. Thanks for the reply :) Anton Maybe You'll prefer to connect to Golden Delicious, Also they have their own maiilist. And we also follow this list... Nikolaus ___ Gta04-owner mailing list gta04-ow...@goldelico.com http://lists.goldelico.com/mailman/listinfo/gta04-owner ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [Gta04-owner] Clarification
So, it's a dream to have a full GTA04 with case,battery,screen etc etc in a real near future? :( I mean, i have to buy a GTA01/02 and do the stuff to replace the mothherboard to have a GTA04 2011/11/8 Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller h...@goldelico.com Am 08.11.2011 um 09:59 schrieb Jorge Costa: Hi Nikolaus, does this mean that you won't be shipping the GTA04 boards until you are able to mass produce the new cases ? No, it means that they will be made available as a motherboard replacement for existing GTA01 and GTA02 cases. Of course as soon as possible. jorge Hi Antonio, Am 08.11.2011 um 08:11 schrieb Evgeniy Ginzburg: On Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 08:43, Poul Kristensen bcc5...@gmail.com wrote: Hello Anton It seems to replace the one in GTA02 :) http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GTA04 Poul 2011/11/8 Antonio Murdaca amurdoc...@gmail.com: Hello all, Just have a doubt! When the GTA04A4 will be ready to everyone, will it be shipped with a case (with the camera module etc etc) included or will it be only the board to be mounted on an existing GTA02?? Well, the picture isn't that black and white. We are curently preparing the production of the next batch of GTA04 boards. These will be made available as a motherboard replacement for existing GTA01 and GTA02 cases. But we are working to get a new case and some ideas have already been developed and proposed, e.g. a wooden case. I have no idea how long it will need, but when finished, we will have the boards plus cases. So that you can choose to take you GTA01 or GTA02 case or a new one. The camera will be an optional module for self-install since not everyone wants to have one. Thanks for the reply :) Anton Maybe You'll prefer to connect to Golden Delicious, Also they have their own maiilist. And we also follow this list... Nikolaus ___ Gta04-owner mailing list gta04-ow...@goldelico.com http://lists.goldelico.com/mailman/listinfo/gta04-owner ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [Gta04-owner] Clarification
On Tuesday 08 November 2011 13:00:41 Antonio Murdaca wrote: So, it's a dream to have a full GTA04 with case,battery,screen etc etc in a real near future? :( I mean, i have to buy a GTA01/02 and do the stuff to replace the mothherboard to have a GTA04 I bought GTA04 board + LCD display and battery and made myself wooden case [1]. I can use it now as PDA. To use it as a phone i need GPS GSM antenna and speakers IIRC. It would be nice to have possibility to buy also these missing components. Regards Radek [1] https://picasaweb.google.com/114961040002008630266/GTA04WoodenCase ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [Gta04-owner] Clarification
Antonio Murdaca amurdoc...@gmail.com wrote: So, it's a dream to have a full GTA04 with case,battery,screen etc etc in a real near future? :( I mean, i have to buy a GTA01/02 and do the stuff to replace the mothherboard to have a GTA04 When you gut your GTA02s to stuff GTA04 boards into them, PLEASE don't throw the old GTA02 boards away, please save them as spares for people like me! MS ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [Gta04-owner] Clarification
On Tuesday 08 November 2011, Radek Polak wrote: On Tuesday 08 November 2011 13:00:41 Antonio Murdaca wrote: So, it's a dream to have a full GTA04 with case,battery,screen etc etc in a real near future? :( I mean, i have to buy a GTA01/02 and do the stuff to replace the mothherboard to have a GTA04 I bought GTA04 board + LCD display and battery and made myself wooden case [1]. I can use it now as PDA. To use it as a phone i need GPS GSM antenna and speakers IIRC. It would be nice to have possibility to buy also these missing components. If it's using widely used connectors (HFL/uFL probably) you can get gps and multi-band gsm antennae quite easily in various shapes and sizes, so you should be able to find one to fit your case. Finding a suitable speaker for your case shouldn't be much harder. When they start producing their own case I imagine it will have matching parts supplied, but they might not be as good for your case as the alternatives. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Clarification
Hello all, Just have a doubt! When the GTA04A4 will be ready to everyone, will it be shipped with a case (with the camera module etc etc) included or will it be only the board to be mounted on an existing GTA02?? Thanks for the reply :) Anton ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Clarification
Hello Anton It seems to replace the one in GTA02 :) http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GTA04 Poul 2011/11/8 Antonio Murdaca amurdoc...@gmail.com: Hello all, Just have a doubt! When the GTA04A4 will be ready to everyone, will it be shipped with a case (with the camera module etc etc) included or will it be only the board to be mounted on an existing GTA02?? Thanks for the reply :) Anton ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Clarification
On Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 08:43, Poul Kristensen bcc5...@gmail.com wrote: Hello Anton It seems to replace the one in GTA02 :) http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GTA04 Poul 2011/11/8 Antonio Murdaca amurdoc...@gmail.com: Hello all, Just have a doubt! When the GTA04A4 will be ready to everyone, will it be shipped with a case (with the camera module etc etc) included or will it be only the board to be mounted on an existing GTA02?? Thanks for the reply :) Anton Maybe You'll prefer to connect to Golden Delicious, Also they have their own maiilist. Regards, Evgeniy -- So long, and thanks for all the fish. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Clarification
Hi Antonio, Am 08.11.2011 um 08:11 schrieb Evgeniy Ginzburg: On Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 08:43, Poul Kristensen bcc5...@gmail.com wrote: Hello Anton It seems to replace the one in GTA02 :) http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GTA04 Poul 2011/11/8 Antonio Murdaca amurdoc...@gmail.com: Hello all, Just have a doubt! When the GTA04A4 will be ready to everyone, will it be shipped with a case (with the camera module etc etc) included or will it be only the board to be mounted on an existing GTA02?? Well, the picture isn't that black and white. We are curently preparing the production of the next batch of GTA04 boards. These will be made available as a motherboard replacement for existing GTA01 and GTA02 cases. But we are working to get a new case and some ideas have already been developed and proposed, e.g. a wooden case. I have no idea how long it will need, but when finished, we will have the boards plus cases. So that you can choose to take you GTA01 or GTA02 case or a new one. The camera will be an optional module for self-install since not everyone wants to have one. Thanks for the reply :) Anton Maybe You'll prefer to connect to Golden Delicious, Also they have their own maiilist. And we also follow this list... Nikolaus ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: clarification: images vs upgrade
hope this helps not totally sure :-) flashing and doing opkg update opkg upgrade are basically interchangeable, right? ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: clarification: images vs upgrade
Hello On Sun, Jul 13, 2008 at 03:34:59PM +0200, arne anka wrote: hope this helps not totally sure :-) flashing and doing opkg update opkg upgrade are basically interchangeable, right? If I understand it correctly, no. If you upgrade, you get new versions of each installed package. If you flash, you lose all software you installed ”over“ the basic system. But you can flash it even if the system does not boot. -- Never underestimate the bandwidth of a station wagon full of HDDs. Michal 'vorner' Vaner pgpPUIAGzWgxz.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: clarification: images vs upgrade
If I understand it correctly, no. If you upgrade, you get new versions of each installed package. If you flash, you lose all software you installed ”over“ the basic system. let's forget about additional packages or changed settings for the moment. a new image should contain newer versions of packages than the images before, shouldn't it? so in respect to the packages installed by default flashing a new image should be equivalent to doing update upgrade, right? i still try to figure out whether i need to flash or update upgrade does the same for me. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: clarification: images vs upgrade
Yes, just installing a new version should get the latest, and be quicker. Later when you have installed things not in the standard install, and possibly put them on the SD card where there is more space, you may need to do upgrade, and possibly would choose to do both. I am not sure if there is a basic part of the install that is not part of an upgrade and only gets altered with a new version. If there is I would like to know how to recognise it. = Anyone? clare On Sun, Jul 13, 2008 at 1:54 PM, arne anka [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: i still try to figure out whether i need to flash or update upgrade does the same for me. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
clarification: images vs upgrade
hi, while browsing the device-owners list, my uncertainity regarding the images only grew. there's uImage and there's root-image. how are the to describe in terms of desktop distributions (uImage writes bootloader, root-image copies an image to harddisk like knoppix does?)? and how does doing opkg update opkg upgrade differ from flashing those images? being a longterm debian/sid user i grew accustomed to do aptitude update aptitude dist-upgrade almost every day and compile a new kernel every now and then ... thanks in advance ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: clarification of Qtopia Vs. GTK
On Saturday 24 May 2008, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Am 23.05.2008 um 20:49 schrieb Lorn Potter: If anyone is in the position to change that, it's we. I don't like so sound to negative. I like most of the changes. But i think throwing the gtk apps away and replace them by the QTopia apps is stupid. I would rather like to see a transition to EFL for the gtk apps. Everything i have seen so far from qtopia apps looks bland and boring. Qtopia is easily changed/hacked on. The source code is provided for free. You would be amazed at what some of Qtopia's customers are doing with it. It's got styles/theming, has dynamic layouting, and easy translating even for LTR languages. I like to get surprised... :) I like the qtopia plattform, as a plattform. But i don't think it's the way to build the nerdiest phone ever. Especially after so much was done right before in a completely different way. Qtopia AFAIK has it's own pim storage api. How would non-qt apps use them? Qtopia pim data are stored in a sqlite database. It is not a secret, nor is it proprietary or locked down. So your application has a choice whether to use some library that can access sqlite (Qtopia has that of course), or use the commandline interface to sqlite. Well, that is a long time after embedded evolution data server was declared the way to go on openmoko. And just my 2 Eurocents. I think this was a good decision. And the gsm stuff? Does this mean we now use the qtpia gsm stack? letting gsmd die would probably one of the better ideas. But i rather like so see it replaced by something similar but working instead of a set of qt apis. What is wrong with Qtopia's gsm stack? For the most part, it works. It doesn't crash, and can send and receive sms messages. and best of all, it's already written and working. If someone wrote/'ported' a wap stack, it would even do mms. AFAIK it's a qt-API not a daemon, server whatever. I assume this means the dialer app becomes part of the phone framework? The dialer can be replaced. It is not part of the QtopiaPhoneModem library, it is part of the server. Same concerns as for the PIM stuff. This makes gui apps infrastructure. Qtopia is not one big binary. It has it's own libraries. The apps are separate from the libraries. Let's put it this way. Once I got the hardware, it took me less than week to have Qtopia up and sending/receiving sms's and making phone calls. I always wondered why no one took teyr code and put it into something like gsmd. *g* Because the gsm code in Qtopia is specific to Qt and Qtopia. -- Lorn 'ljp' Potter Software Engineer, Systems Group, MES, Trolltech ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: clarification of Qtopia Vs. GTK
On Saturday 24 May 2008, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I just wanted to add that I think Qtopia is very interesting, and I'm really looking forward to trying it on my neo, and thank you to Trolltech for helping out with getting it on X11 and on the neo, and for putting up with all the criticism. No worries, mate! Thanks for that. Also, for the QT-naysayers: all the software is opensource, and you can easily get the GTK stack back in there in no-time (hell, currently it's easier to find the GTK images than the ASU images). So, what's the big trouble? Just my couple of eurocents, and hoping to get my efl+qt+gtk neo soon. Ivo Anjo -- Lorn 'ljp' Potter Software Engineer, Systems Group, MES, Trolltech ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: clarification of Qtopia Vs. GTK
Michael Shiloh wrote: * Switches the Window Manager from Matchbox to Enlightenment (E17) Nice. * Ported Qtopia to Xorg, so it is possible to run Qtopia, GTK, ELF, and Python applications all at the same time Really nice. * Replaced the GTK-based basic phone suite (dialer, contacts, SMS) with ones based on Qtopia Why that? The old apps wheren't so bad. They even started to work in the last versions. :-) I liked the style, i liked the architecture. I can not really believe that anyone would like to throw that all away. Not mentioning that we walk on somewhat beaten tracks there. We hat more or less the same technology there as Maemo (Nokia) and Ubuntu mobile. And GPE fitted well too. I hate the Qtopia stuff. It makes a good software for classic mobile handsets. But nothing innovative. Just another mobile phone gui like all the others we have seen so far. It probably works well. But it is plainly boring. :-/ Will a 'new-world' Neo look anything like what i am used to right now? Or what will it look like anyway? Can i test the new stuff on my neo1973? The last build i checked was all 'classic' stuff. Maybe i like it, after i used it... :) Regards Tilman ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: clarification of Qtopia Vs. GTK
Hi Tilman I think they prefered to use an existent project, because they need something running and to concentrate their energy to hardware part. They want to concentrate to the project of hardware, not in GUI writing. According me is a good idea to reuse the software wrote by other people. In every case the software previously written in not trashed. It is released with open licences and it can be implemented by someone who hate too much Qtopia. Concorrence is always good for users :) Tilman Baumann wrote: Why that? The old apps wheren't so bad. They even started to work in the last versions. :-) I liked the style, i liked the architecture. I can not really believe that anyone would like to throw that all away. Not mentioning that we walk on somewhat beaten tracks there. We hat more or less the same technology there as Maemo (Nokia) and Ubuntu mobile. And GPE fitted well too. I hate the Qtopia stuff. It makes a good software for classic mobile handsets. But nothing innovative. Just another mobile phone gui like all the others we have seen so far. It probably works well. But it is plainly boring. :-/ Will a 'new-world' Neo look anything like what i am used to right now? Or what will it look like anyway? Can i test the new stuff on my neo1973? The last build i checked was all 'classic' stuff. Maybe i like it, after i used it... :) Regards Tilman ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: clarification of Qtopia Vs. GTK
Michele Renda wrote: Hi Tilman I think they prefered to use an existent project, because they need something running and to concentrate their energy to hardware part. They want to concentrate to the project of hardware, not in GUI writing. Openmoko is a Software project. The software is the only thing that helps to make this 1990ies like piece of hardware cool. According me is a good idea to reuse the software wrote by other people. In every case the software previously written in not trashed. It is released with open licences and it can be implemented by someone who hate too much Qtopia. Hope so. The problem is that the community has little resources. Dividing these resources does not sound like a good idea. And i cant's see how it helpes to throw most of the good work away. (Ok, some was crap. But nothing beyond repair) I think this will piss of developers. And users. Openmoko turned into a nice mobile computing platform with a very technocratic view on things. This is a feature. I would say, _the_ feature. Concorrence is always good for users :) Not necessarily. I prefer innovation. Especially in a industrey that has not produced innovation and good software for decades. (At least not since apple came.) If anyone is in the position to change that, it's we. I don't like so sound to negative. I like most of the changes. But i think throwing the gtk apps away and replace them by the QTopia apps is stupid. I would rather like to see a transition to EFL for the gtk apps. Everything i have seen so far from qtopia apps looks bland and boring. I like the qtopia plattform, as a plattform. But i don't think it's the way to build the nerdiest phone ever. Especially after so much was done right before in a completely different way. Qtopia AFAIK has it's own pim storage api. How would non-qt apps use them? And the gsm stuff? Does this mean we now use the qtpia gsm stack? letting gsmd die would probably one of the better ideas. But i rather like so see it replaced by something similar but working instead of a set of qt apis. Is there any place where to look which back end functionalities will change? Like evolution data server, dbus apis, gsmd, PhoneKit and such... Well, we will see... I should better keep my mouth shut and wait until there are GTA01 builds. Regards Tilman ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: clarification of Qtopia Vs. GTK
Tilman Baumann wrote: Well, we will see... I should better keep my mouth shut and wait until there are GTA01 builds. As i'm just in the mood of speaking about the devil right now. I hope this will not end as Nokia N770 all over again. I bought my Neo under the promise that all future software will run on them. (of course not as fast and without wlan and so on...) Going back to work now. Maybe this will provide me a way to redirect my bad attitude into something productive... *g* Tilman ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: clarification of Qtopia Vs. GTK
On Friday 23 May 2008, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Michele Renda wrote: Hi Tilman I think they prefered to use an existent project, because they need something running and to concentrate their energy to hardware part. They want to concentrate to the project of hardware, not in GUI writing. Openmoko is a Software project. The software is the only thing that helps to make this 1990ies like piece of hardware cool. According me is a good idea to reuse the software wrote by other people. In every case the software previously written in not trashed. It is released with open licences and it can be implemented by someone who hate too much Qtopia. Hope so. The problem is that the community has little resources. Dividing these resources does not sound like a good idea. And i cant's see how it helpes to throw most of the good work away. (Ok, some was crap. But nothing beyond repair) I think this will piss of developers. And users. You can please some of the people some of the time, but you cannot please all of the people all of the time. Openmoko turned into a nice mobile computing platform with a very technocratic view on things. This is a feature. I would say, _the_ feature. and it still exists. Concorrence is always good for users :) Not necessarily. I prefer innovation. Especially in a industrey that has not produced innovation and good software for decades. (At least not since apple came.) Apple has had their share of junker software/hardware. If anyone is in the position to change that, it's we. I don't like so sound to negative. I like most of the changes. But i think throwing the gtk apps away and replace them by the QTopia apps is stupid. I would rather like to see a transition to EFL for the gtk apps. Everything i have seen so far from qtopia apps looks bland and boring. Qtopia is easily changed/hacked on. The source code is provided for free. You would be amazed at what some of Qtopia's customers are doing with it. It's got styles/theming, has dynamic layouting, and easy translating even for LTR languages. I like the qtopia plattform, as a plattform. But i don't think it's the way to build the nerdiest phone ever. Especially after so much was done right before in a completely different way. Qtopia AFAIK has it's own pim storage api. How would non-qt apps use them? Qtopia pim data are stored in a sqlite database. It is not a secret, nor is it proprietary or locked down. So your application has a choice whether to use some library that can access sqlite (Qtopia has that of course), or use the commandline interface to sqlite. And the gsm stuff? Does this mean we now use the qtpia gsm stack? letting gsmd die would probably one of the better ideas. But i rather like so see it replaced by something similar but working instead of a set of qt apis. What is wrong with Qtopia's gsm stack? For the most part, it works. It doesn't crash, and can send and receive sms messages. and best of all, it's already written and working. If someone wrote/'ported' a wap stack, it would even do mms. Let's put it this way. Once I got the hardware, it took me less than week to have Qtopia up and sending/receiving sms's and making phone calls. Is there any place where to look which back end functionalities will change? Like evolution data server, dbus apis, gsmd, PhoneKit and such... Well, we will see... I should better keep my mouth shut and wait until there are GTA01 builds. Regards Tilman -- Lorn 'ljp' Potter Software Engineer, Systems Group, MES, Trolltech ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: clarification of Qtopia Vs. GTK
Am 23.05.2008 um 20:49 schrieb Lorn Potter: If anyone is in the position to change that, it's we. I don't like so sound to negative. I like most of the changes. But i think throwing the gtk apps away and replace them by the QTopia apps is stupid. I would rather like to see a transition to EFL for the gtk apps. Everything i have seen so far from qtopia apps looks bland and boring. Qtopia is easily changed/hacked on. The source code is provided for free. You would be amazed at what some of Qtopia's customers are doing with it. It's got styles/theming, has dynamic layouting, and easy translating even for LTR languages. I like to get surprised... :) I like the qtopia plattform, as a plattform. But i don't think it's the way to build the nerdiest phone ever. Especially after so much was done right before in a completely different way. Qtopia AFAIK has it's own pim storage api. How would non-qt apps use them? Qtopia pim data are stored in a sqlite database. It is not a secret, nor is it proprietary or locked down. So your application has a choice whether to use some library that can access sqlite (Qtopia has that of course), or use the commandline interface to sqlite. Well, that is a long time after embedded evolution data server was declared the way to go on openmoko. And just my 2 Eurocents. I think this was a good decision. And the gsm stuff? Does this mean we now use the qtpia gsm stack? letting gsmd die would probably one of the better ideas. But i rather like so see it replaced by something similar but working instead of a set of qt apis. What is wrong with Qtopia's gsm stack? For the most part, it works. It doesn't crash, and can send and receive sms messages. and best of all, it's already written and working. If someone wrote/'ported' a wap stack, it would even do mms. AFAIK it's a qt-API not a daemon, server whatever. I assume this means the dialer app becomes part of the phone framework? Same concerns as for the PIM stuff. This makes gui apps infrastructure. Let's put it this way. Once I got the hardware, it took me less than week to have Qtopia up and sending/receiving sms's and making phone calls. I always wondered why no one took teyr code and put it into something like gsmd. *g* ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: clarification of Qtopia Vs. GTK
I just wanted to add that I think Qtopia is very interesting, and I'm really looking forward to trying it on my neo, and thank you to Trolltech for helping out with getting it on X11 and on the neo, and for putting up with all the criticism. Also, for the QT-naysayers: all the software is opensource, and you can easily get the GTK stack back in there in no-time (hell, currently it's easier to find the GTK images than the ASU images). So, what's the big trouble? Just my couple of eurocents, and hoping to get my efl+qt+gtk neo soon. Ivo Anjo On Fri, May 23, 2008 at 7:49 PM, Lorn Potter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Friday 23 May 2008, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Michele Renda wrote: Hi Tilman I think they prefered to use an existent project, because they need something running and to concentrate their energy to hardware part. They want to concentrate to the project of hardware, not in GUI writing. Openmoko is a Software project. The software is the only thing that helps to make this 1990ies like piece of hardware cool. According me is a good idea to reuse the software wrote by other people. In every case the software previously written in not trashed. It is released with open licences and it can be implemented by someone who hate too much Qtopia. Hope so. The problem is that the community has little resources. Dividing these resources does not sound like a good idea. And i cant's see how it helpes to throw most of the good work away. (Ok, some was crap. But nothing beyond repair) I think this will piss of developers. And users. You can please some of the people some of the time, but you cannot please all of the people all of the time. Openmoko turned into a nice mobile computing platform with a very technocratic view on things. This is a feature. I would say, _the_ feature. and it still exists. Concorrence is always good for users :) Not necessarily. I prefer innovation. Especially in a industrey that has not produced innovation and good software for decades. (At least not since apple came.) Apple has had their share of junker software/hardware. If anyone is in the position to change that, it's we. I don't like so sound to negative. I like most of the changes. But i think throwing the gtk apps away and replace them by the QTopia apps is stupid. I would rather like to see a transition to EFL for the gtk apps. Everything i have seen so far from qtopia apps looks bland and boring. Qtopia is easily changed/hacked on. The source code is provided for free. You would be amazed at what some of Qtopia's customers are doing with it. It's got styles/theming, has dynamic layouting, and easy translating even for LTR languages. I like the qtopia plattform, as a plattform. But i don't think it's the way to build the nerdiest phone ever. Especially after so much was done right before in a completely different way. Qtopia AFAIK has it's own pim storage api. How would non-qt apps use them? Qtopia pim data are stored in a sqlite database. It is not a secret, nor is it proprietary or locked down. So your application has a choice whether to use some library that can access sqlite (Qtopia has that of course), or use the commandline interface to sqlite. And the gsm stuff? Does this mean we now use the qtpia gsm stack? letting gsmd die would probably one of the better ideas. But i rather like so see it replaced by something similar but working instead of a set of qt apis. What is wrong with Qtopia's gsm stack? For the most part, it works. It doesn't crash, and can send and receive sms messages. and best of all, it's already written and working. If someone wrote/'ported' a wap stack, it would even do mms. Let's put it this way. Once I got the hardware, it took me less than week to have Qtopia up and sending/receiving sms's and making phone calls. Is there any place where to look which back end functionalities will change? Like evolution data server, dbus apis, gsmd, PhoneKit and such... Well, we will see... I should better keep my mouth shut and wait until there are GTA01 builds. Regards Tilman -- Lorn 'ljp' Potter Software Engineer, Systems Group, MES, Trolltech ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: clarification of Qtopia Vs. GTK
On Thursday 22 May 2008, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have had some further discussions with headquarters, and have edited my blog to try to explain the new software a little better. The important facts are that the new software: * Switches the Window Manager from Matchbox to Enlightenment (E17) * Ported Qtopia to Xorg, so it is possible to run Qtopia, GTK, ELF, and Python applications all at the same time Actually, Trolltech had done most of the 'porting' to X11 work already. * Replaced the GTK-based basic phone suite (dialer, contacts, SMS) with ones based on Qtopia I hope this better explains the situation. Regards, Michael (Full posting at http://gettingstartedopenmoko.wordpress.com/2008/05/19/openmoko-software-up date/) -- Lorn 'ljp' Potter Software Engineer, Systems Group, MES, Trolltech ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: clarification of Qtopia Vs. GTK
On Thu, 22 May 2008 15:58:43 +1000 Lorn Potter [EMAIL PROTECTED] babbled: On Thursday 22 May 2008, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have had some further discussions with headquarters, and have edited my blog to try to explain the new software a little better. The important facts are that the new software: * Switches the Window Manager from Matchbox to Enlightenment (E17) * Ported Qtopia to Xorg, so it is possible to run Qtopia, GTK, ELF, and Python applications all at the same time Actually, Trolltech had done most of the 'porting' to X11 work already. indeed - though it has needed much loving so it behaves normally or even optimally in x when you have a window manager... :) * Replaced the GTK-based basic phone suite (dialer, contacts, SMS) with ones based on Qtopia I hope this better explains the situation. Regards, Michael (Full posting at http://gettingstartedopenmoko.wordpress.com/2008/05/19/openmoko-software-up date/) -- Lorn 'ljp' Potter Software Engineer, Systems Group, MES, Trolltech ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: clarification of Qtopia Vs. GTK
On Wednesday 21 May 2008 21:45:37 Michael Shiloh wrote: * Ported Qtopia to Xorg, so it is possible to run Qtopia, GTK, ELF, and Python applications all at the same time Hmmm... Just wondering if anyone has seen this: http://labs.trolltech.com/blogs/2008/05/13/introducing-qgtkstyle/ Basically Jens has written a Qt4 style which will use the current GTK+ theme to draw stuff. I think it might be useful on OpenMoko because it has the potential to give the Qtopia/X11 apps the same look feel as the GTK+ apps. Just a thought! Cheers, Tom ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: clarification of Qtopia Vs. GTK
Also spracht Michele Renda (Wed, 21 May 2008 22:51:47 +0200): A lot of people that are afraid that Nokia, as owner of Trolltech, can be against Openmoko freedom, but I think you are not stupid and you know what are you doing. Nokia makes money out of handsets, not software. Who knows? They may be watching OM very closely, hoping it will be the thing that finally allows them to use a more open platform, networks be damned ;-)n best, Lalo Martins -- So many of our dreams at first seem impossible, then they seem improbable, and then, when we summon the will, they soon become inevitable. - http://lalomartins.info/ GNU: never give up freedom http://www.gnu.org/ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: clarification of Qtopia Vs. GTK
Yes, it is possible. But often Hardware producer are linked to carriers. I remember how phone producer try to disable VoIp function from their devices. And this is not nice. I don't know how Nokia will like an open phone. But we can not to know! Lalo Martins wrote: Nokia makes money out of handsets, not software. Who knows? They may be watching OM very closely, hoping it will be the thing that finally allows them to use a more open platform, networks be damned ;-)n best, Lalo Martins ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: clarification of Qtopia Vs. GTK
Lorn Potter wrote: On Thursday 22 May 2008, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have had some further discussions with headquarters, and have edited my blog to try to explain the new software a little better. The important facts are that the new software: * Switches the Window Manager from Matchbox to Enlightenment (E17) * Ported Qtopia to Xorg, so it is possible to run Qtopia, GTK, ELF, and Python applications all at the same time Actually, Trolltech had done most of the 'porting' to X11 work already. Hi Lorn, Thanks for the clarification upon my clarification. I will edit my blog to correctly credit this. Michael ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: clarification of Qtopia Vs. GTK
Tom Cooksey wrote: On Wednesday 21 May 2008 21:45:37 Michael Shiloh wrote: * Ported Qtopia to Xorg, so it is possible to run Qtopia, GTK, ELF, and Python applications all at the same time Hmmm... Just wondering if anyone has seen this: http://labs.trolltech.com/blogs/2008/05/13/introducing-qgtkstyle/ Yes, I've seen and loved this, thinking the same you've proposed btw in this case maybe it won't work as expected since I don't know really how qtopia apps are themed: are they using simply Qt themes? If they do, maybe, it will be possible using them with the old gtk Om theme! Anyway I don't know if the qgtkskyle wrapper has some performance issues on small devices like Freerunner... -- Treviño's World - Life and Linux http://www.3v1n0.net/ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
clarification of Qtopia Vs. GTK
I have had some further discussions with headquarters, and have edited my blog to try to explain the new software a little better. The important facts are that the new software: * Switches the Window Manager from Matchbox to Enlightenment (E17) * Ported Qtopia to Xorg, so it is possible to run Qtopia, GTK, ELF, and Python applications all at the same time * Replaced the GTK-based basic phone suite (dialer, contacts, SMS) with ones based on Qtopia I hope this better explains the situation. Regards, Michael (Full posting at http://gettingstartedopenmoko.wordpress.com/2008/05/19/openmoko-software-update/) ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: clarification of Qtopia Vs. GTK
Special Agent Michael Shiloh reported at 12:45 05/21/08: I have had some further discussions with headquarters, and have edited my blog to try to explain the new software a little better. The important facts are that the new software: * Ported Qtopia to Xorg, so it is possible to run Qtopia, GTK, ELF, and Python applications all at the same time * Replaced the GTK-based basic phone suite (dialer, contacts, SMS) with ones based on Qtopia Someone might want to edit or remove: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Why_Not_QT Matthew ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: clarification of Qtopia Vs. GTK
On Wed, 21 May 2008 22:51:47 +0200 Michele Renda [EMAIL PROTECTED] babbled: Hi Michael, I think you and your team are doing a courageous but good choose. I ask only that if in the future this choose will limit Openmoko openess, you will protect us! A lot of people that are afraid that Nokia, as owner of Trolltech, can be against Openmoko freedom, but I think you are not stupid and you know what are you doing. at WORST nokia can close off FUTURE qt/qtopia/qpe releases or make it a license we cannot stomach - we can still ship what they have today as it is available as GPL. if that were to ever happen we'd ship what they have before a license change or closing-off of the code and not upgrade. in the longer-term of course that software is dead weight, but it'd do for now until it gets replaced. i don't see a lot fear unless we are banking the WHOLE platform on it. as it stands we are delivering qt and qtopia/qpe as part of a set of applications. the platform is heterogeneous and has multiple toolkits available for use and developers may choose whichever suits them best. we dont limit you to the one choice that we made (beyond using x11 - but even then you are free to modify the core os, remove x11 and do your own entire ui yourself... if you want). Good luck! Michael Shiloh wrote: I have had some further discussions with headquarters, and have edited my blog to try to explain the new software a little better. The important facts are that the new software: * Switches the Window Manager from Matchbox to Enlightenment (E17) * Ported Qtopia to Xorg, so it is possible to run Qtopia, GTK, ELF, and Python applications all at the same time * Replaced the GTK-based basic phone suite (dialer, contacts, SMS) with ones based on Qtopia I hope this better explains the situation. Regards, Michael (Full posting at http://gettingstartedopenmoko.wordpress.com/2008/05/19/openmoko-software-update/) ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: clarification re easy OpenMoko updating for average consumer
Ron K. Jeffries wrote: As an Ubuntu *user* every now and then I get an alert that upgrades are available. Likewise with other major distros like Fedora -- you get an alert that upgrades are available when you login, or come back from an idle state overnight (nightly cron job I imagine). In the case of the Freerunner though, if updates are available, we should give the user the option of upgrading everything automagically, without ever prompting them, or letting them manually update. Not saying this is necessarily the way to go because some other mobile OS does this, but my Blackjack 2 running Windows Mobile 6 gives me the option of manually looking for updates and manually applying them, or just letting the phone do things on its own. Of course, *because* it's Windows I don't let it do anything automatically... But from an end user perspective, if we want to reach non-techies (or as Ron put it, people with IQ's less than 175), should we even prompt for a password when the root user doesn't even *have* a password? Unless we prompt the user upon first boot-up of the phone to enter a security passphrase for things like updates, locking the phone from any use, locking the phone for international calls, etc. Just my $0.02. -id ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: clarification re easy OpenMoko updating for average consumer
On Thu, 15 May 2008 13:58:40 -0700 ian douglas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In the case of the Freerunner though, if updates are available, we should give the user the option of upgrading everything automagically, without ever prompting them, or letting them manually update. We should disable this on GRPS/GSM unless the user specifically asks for it as it would cost quite a lot to download all updates over the mobile network. Also maybe doing major updates while on battery should be disabled (certainly while battery is low) just to avoid any problems (bricked phone) solar.george ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: clarification re easy OpenMoko updating for average consumer
On 15 May 2008, at 19:37, Ron K. Jeffries wrote: ... As an Ubuntu *user* every now and then I get an alert that upgrades are available. If I say yes it automagically fires up a package manager. I enter the my root password, and a few minutes later it's a done deal. Smooth, easy... for a major Ubuntu upgrade, e,g from Gutsy 7.10 to Hardy 8.04, I select an upgrade button, and sit back while magic happened. ... I did NOT lose my address book, either. g I don't see why you would expect it to be much different on Openmoko. I would expect most users to update their phones this way, and 3rd- party repositories CVS/SVN archives to be available for those who want bleeding edge. Stroller. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: clarification re easy OpenMoko updating for average consumer
Seems that there is already a Moko-Manager project http://projects.openmoko.org/projects/openmokomanager/ I was unable to run it yet but it got screen shoots ian douglas [EMAIL PROTECTED] escribió: Ron K. Jeffries wrote: As an Ubuntu *user* every now and then I get an alert that upgrades are available. Likewise with other major distros like Fedora -- you get an alert that upgrades are available when you login, or come back from an idle state overnight (nightly cron job I imagine). In the case of the Freerunner though, if updates are available, we should give the user the option of upgrading everything automagically, without ever prompting them, or letting them manually update. Not saying this is necessarily the way to go because some other mobile OS does this, but my Blackjack 2 running Windows Mobile 6 gives me the option of manually looking for updates and manually applying them, or just letting the phone do things on its own. Of course, *because* it's Windows I don't let it do anything automatically... But from an end user perspective, if we want to reach non-techies (or as Ron put it, people with IQ's less than 175), should we even prompt for a password when the root user doesn't even *have* a password? Unless we prompt the user upon first boot-up of the phone to enter a security passphrase for things like updates, locking the phone from any use, locking the phone for international calls, etc. Just my $0.02. -id ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community - Enviado desde Correo Yahoo! La bandeja de entrada más inteligente. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: clarification re easy OpenMoko updating for average consumer
On Thu, 2008-05-15 at 23:48 +0100, George Brooke wrote: Also maybe doing major updates while on battery should be disabled (certainly while battery is low) just to avoid any problems (bricked phone) How about it downloads the updates whenever wifi is available (battery or not), and then (if set to update automatically) updates once plugged in to charge, and if set to manual requires battery power to be above a certain percentage. Mo. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: clarification re easy OpenMoko updating for average consumer
Mo Abrahams wrote: How about it downloads the updates whenever wifi is available (battery or not), and then (if set to update automatically) updates once plugged in to charge, and if set to manual requires battery power to be above a certain percentage. I'd say that if GSM downloads are going to be slow, then downloads should also occur if the phone is plugged into a PC and network bridging is set up -- not everyone will have a wifi router. Since the updates will require a certain amount of time and battery power, the update should only happen once the battery power is above a certain level whether plugged in for charging or not. For example, if the battery was completely drained, and the user plugs it into a PC, if the charger can't keep up with the drain of installing updates, then updates shouldn't happen just because it's plugged into a charger. Thoughts? -id ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: clarification re easy OpenMoko updating for average consumer
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 I think the user should decide, wheter the update should be done at once or later. Of cource an advise of batterystate should be done. Greetings Bastian ian douglas schrieb: | Mo Abrahams wrote: | How about it downloads the updates whenever wifi is available (battery | or not), and then (if set to update automatically) updates once plugged | in to charge, and if set to manual requires battery power to be above a | certain percentage. | | I'd say that if GSM downloads are going to be slow, then downloads should also occur if the phone is plugged into a PC and network bridging is set up -- not everyone will have a wifi router. | | Since the updates will require a certain amount of time and battery power, the update should only happen once the battery power is above a certain level whether plugged in for charging or not. | | For example, if the battery was completely drained, and the user plugs it into a PC, if the charger can't keep up with the drain of installing updates, then updates shouldn't happen just because it's plugged into a charger. | | Thoughts? | | -id | | ___ | Openmoko community mailing list | community@lists.openmoko.org | http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community | -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFILNBzlYiDScJJ+7QRAkoZAJ9UE9CPLsd1Ew1yr1A4yRZvlTHfPACeLA7q Nc6IhZQqMFiGrXtg8nq7pzU= =f3P1 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: clarification re easy OpenMoko updating for average consumer
That's something I thought some time ago, but it was not possible 'couse there are too many possible hardware combinations. But we don't have that on the Freerunner. It would be nice to add to the description of every package, app or update the time it take to install it. I mean, we can calculate the time it takes to download from the spped of the connection, and we ask the developers to add the times it takes to install to the description of the software, or even devel an app wich times it. Perhaps also could show and/or share that data. Just a thought. Happy waiting. Kosa - Un mundo mejor es posible . Bu we don't have that on te Freerunner ian douglas escribió: Mo Abrahams wrote: How about it downloads the updates whenever wifi is available (battery or not), and then (if set to update automatically) updates once plugged in to charge, and if set to manual requires battery power to be above a certain percentage. I'd say that if GSM downloads are going to be slow, then downloads should also occur if the phone is plugged into a PC and network bridging is set up -- not everyone will have a wifi router. Since the updates will require a certain amount of time and battery power, the update should only happen once the battery power is above a certain level whether plugged in for charging or not. For example, if the battery was completely drained, and the user plugs it into a PC, if the charger can't keep up with the drain of installing updates, then updates shouldn't happen just because it's plugged into a charger. Thoughts? -id ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Clarification Rant
Right, the only tough part is deciding whether to buy GTA01 hardware when I know that WiFi is coming, and I can still do development without the hardware. It would be really nice to have a phone, but I want to buy the one that I'd want to use the most. If I had plenty of money, or if I worked for a mobile development company or something, it would be no problem. On 6/27/07, Joe Pfeiffer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ryan Prior writes: If FIC/OpenMoko could run some sort of deal where I could buy the GTA01 for $300 and send it back in for a $150 or $200 upgrade when the GTA02 comes out, I would buy into that. I wouldn't be making decisions at that point -- it'd be an absolute no-brainer. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society. - Krishnamurti ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Clarification Rant
Just try eBay when the time comes. Even without wifi, I would think a smartphone with bluetooth, high-res touchscreen, etc going for $150 - $200. -Steven On 6/27/07, Ryan Prior [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 6/6/07, Gabriel Ambuehl [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wednesday 06 June 2007 01:12:18 Ryan Prior wrote: I'm in the same situation. I need a phone, no question. The Neo 1973 is the phone I want, no question. The question is this: will the Neo1973 with WiFi be available by the time I cannot live without a phone for any longer? How about getting the cheapest phone you can find? Around here there are 15EUR phones without contract (but sim locked to one carrier)... That's my plan for now - I need a reliable phone to use alongside my GTA01 (if I buy one - it's hard to justify buying a GTA01 when the GTA02 will have WiFi, something I will use a lot.) If FIC/OpenMoko could run some sort of deal where I could buy the GTA01 for $300 and send it back in for a $150 or $200 upgrade when the GTA02 comes out, I would buy into that. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Clarification Rant
Ryan Prior writes: Right, the only tough part is deciding whether to buy GTA01 hardware when I know that WiFi is coming, and I can still do development without the hardware. It would be really nice to have a phone, but I want to buy the one that I'd want to use the most. If I had plenty of money, or if I worked for a mobile development company or something, it would be no problem. Exactly! ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Clarification Rant
On Wednesday 06 June 2007 01:12:18 Ryan Prior wrote: I'm in the same situation. I need a phone, no question. The Neo 1973 is the phone I want, no question. The question is this: will the Neo1973 with WiFi be available by the time I cannot live without a phone for any longer? How about getting the cheapest phone you can find? Around here there are 15EUR phones without contract (but sim locked to one carrier)... pgper5OJTwjNv.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Clarification Rant
On 6/6/07, Gabriel Ambuehl [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wednesday 06 June 2007 01:12:18 Ryan Prior wrote: I'm in the same situation. I need a phone, no question. The Neo 1973 is the phone I want, no question. The question is this: will the Neo1973 with WiFi be available by the time I cannot live without a phone for any longer? How about getting the cheapest phone you can find? Around here there are 15EUR phones without contract (but sim locked to one carrier)... That's my plan for now - I need a reliable phone to use alongside my GTA01 (if I buy one - it's hard to justify buying a GTA01 when the GTA02 will have WiFi, something I will use a lot.) If FIC/OpenMoko could run some sort of deal where I could buy the GTA01 for $300 and send it back in for a $150 or $200 upgrade when the GTA02 comes out, I would buy into that. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Clarification Rant
If FIC/OpenMoko could run some sort of deal where I could buy the GTA01 for $300 and send it back in for a $150 or $200 upgrade when the GTA02 comes out, I would buy into that. agreed, but really, what would they do with it? I could see /maybe/ a slight discount... but 150+ is a lot as I am not a developer, I think I am best off waiting until the October release. Wifi is too useful to pass up! ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Clarification Rant
Ryan Prior writes: If FIC/OpenMoko could run some sort of deal where I could buy the GTA01 for $300 and send it back in for a $150 or $200 upgrade when the GTA02 comes out, I would buy into that. I wouldn't be making decisions at that point -- it'd be an absolute no-brainer. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Clarification Rant
On 6/8/07, Jonathon Suggs [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I understand being careful with what you say, but even something like We've built X devices with a defect ratio of Y. We want that ration to be Z before we push the production line full steam ahead would be promising. That is unless X=0 Y=100 and Z is anything greater than zero, THEN we'd be a little disappointed. I also agree. But right now I do not believe we will get the phone before September/October (just a feeling). If it was a little problem, I believe they would keep us informed. I don't know why they don't inform us but I also don't know what the problem is. Anyway... I am really excited and I check several times each day (I have done that since January). I hope it will become available soon. If the problem is software related, I personally think they should not hold the device back. There is many great developers out here that is ready to hack the device. I don't want to sound negative I am just really excited. I think Sean and the rest of the team is working really hard now to find a solution to whatever the problem might be. They are under a lot of pressure and they don't need a lot of demotivating complains. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Clarification Rant
Well since this was supposed to be available back in March, there was no immediate need. Now the pressure (for me) is starting to build. So it is more of a question of I've been waiting for ~3 months now and there is still no idea of when it is going to actually become available. Yes, I could go out and buy a cheap phone today. But then the Neo could be out tomorrow and I would have wasted my money. But its not even a money issue for me. Its a lack of communication issue. The original date was March. Sean clearly explained why they had to push back the date, but only said that new devices would be out soon. Then there was another production run and we all thought that THAT was going to be when they were available...but there were issues and we got bumped back to soon again. LCD shortages, bad production runs, whats next? Are they are going to scrap the GTA-01's in favor of ramping up production lines for the GTA-02 (since that will possibly be the mass-market hardware) but at a few months delay? So while I'm complaining, I'm also appreciative of the information that has been passed down to us. However, that doesn't erase the fact that they set a date and missed it only to be followed up with a soon response. It would be different if they had just said that it would be available in 2007, but to set an exact date then not come through? Then not even give a follow up date...it just seems a little off to me. So I know that I'm sounding really down on Sean and the bunch and that isn't my sentiment. I'm excited about what the platform has the potential to do. But its just deflating to see it failing at such an early point in the development cycle...I guess my optimism can only last so long. I guess what I'm getting at is if they can't get something out the door now (when it is arguably the most important time for the platform) then what is the future going to be like? I'm going to have to see some MAJOR progress to get my hopes back up to where they were when I first heard about and started following the project. Luit van Drongelen wrote: Well, if you can't live without a mobile phone until the Neo with WiFi comes available, why not buy a temporary 25 buck phone? That's what I'm doing now... ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Clarification Rant
Agreed. I feel exactly the same way. I have said it before and I will say it again, the best part of being a COMMunity is COMMunication. In the first few months of development there was a great deal of communication, but it seems to have dwindled which makes me nervous to be honest. On 6/8/07, Jonathon Suggs [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well since this was supposed to be available back in March, there was no immediate need. Now the pressure (for me) is starting to build. So it is more of a question of I've been waiting for ~3 months now and there is still no idea of when it is going to actually become available. Yes, I could go out and buy a cheap phone today. But then the Neo could be out tomorrow and I would have wasted my money. But its not even a money issue for me. Its a lack of communication issue. The original date was March. Sean clearly explained why they had to push back the date, but only said that new devices would be out soon. Then there was another production run and we all thought that THAT was going to be when they were available...but there were issues and we got bumped back to soon again. LCD shortages, bad production runs, whats next? Are they are going to scrap the GTA-01's in favor of ramping up production lines for the GTA-02 (since that will possibly be the mass-market hardware) but at a few months delay? So while I'm complaining, I'm also appreciative of the information that has been passed down to us. However, that doesn't erase the fact that they set a date and missed it only to be followed up with a soon response. It would be different if they had just said that it would be available in 2007, but to set an exact date then not come through? Then not even give a follow up date...it just seems a little off to me. So I know that I'm sounding really down on Sean and the bunch and that isn't my sentiment. I'm excited about what the platform has the potential to do. But its just deflating to see it failing at such an early point in the development cycle...I guess my optimism can only last so long. I guess what I'm getting at is if they can't get something out the door now (when it is arguably the most important time for the platform) then what is the future going to be like? I'm going to have to see some MAJOR progress to get my hopes back up to where they were when I first heard about and started following the project. Luit van Drongelen wrote: Well, if you can't live without a mobile phone until the Neo with WiFi comes available, why not buy a temporary 25 buck phone? That's what I'm doing now... ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Clarification Rant
pe, 2007-06-08 kello 12:05 -0400, Alan Ide kirjoitti: In the first few months of development there was a great deal of communication, but it seems to have dwindled which makes me nervous to be honest. I'm sure the team is also quite honestly nervous to start talking expected shipping dates again after many false alarms. -- Mikko Rauhala - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - URL:http://www.iki.fi/mjr/ Transhumanist - WTA member - URL:http://www.transhumanism.org/ Singularitarian - SIAI supporter - URL:http://www.singinst.org/ ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Clarification Rant
I'm sure the team is also quite honestly nervous to start talking expected shipping dates again after many false alarms. Yeah, but if they would be totally open about the causes for delays, I'm sure the community will understand. Things are complicated, and unexpected happens. I dont care if there's false alarms, as long as they keep everyone posted. The worst is not to have any information. Carl ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Clarification Rant
I understand being careful with what you say, but even something like We've built X devices with a defect ratio of Y. We want that ration to be Z before we push the production line full steam ahead would be promising. That is unless X=0 Y=100 and Z is anything greater than zero, THEN we'd be a little disappointed. Just a quick blurb here and there go a long way, but there hasn't even been that. Also there is all of this talk about GTA-02 and how great and awesome it is going to be...but we don't even have GTA-01 out and available??? All I'm saying is that unless there is nothing positive to say, then something is better than nothing (and we used to get something a while back). So again, I apologize for negativity, but I'm finding it really hard to keep the faith and...keep waiting. Mikko Rauhala wrote: pe, 2007-06-08 kello 12:05 -0400, Alan Ide kirjoitti: In the first few months of development there was a great deal of communication, but it seems to have dwindled which makes me nervous to be honest. I'm sure the team is also quite honestly nervous to start talking expected shipping dates again after many false alarms. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Time line clarification??
Ok so we have passed the original due date for the phase 1. We have passed the original due date for the phase 1+. And now even more confusing we have a phase 2? without a due date at all. The only due date we have is in Sept which will be phase something... So I was curious if there is ANY clarified dates yet?? Or in summary... 1. Will there be a phase 1+ or is that being scrapped for the phase 2 instead? 2. Is sept still a realistic release date? 3. If phase 1+ isnt being scrapped, how long are we looking at in between the 2 devices and will there be a discount for early adopters? I ask these questions to the powers that be. I have read allot of speculation information in the postings, but I have yet to see any thing concrete from the people in charge. Dont get me wrong, I dont mind waiting, but one of the BEST things about being part of an open source community is communication. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Clarification Rant
Hold on chaps. Every phone I have bought since I started using them (circa 98 - late starter, I know) has been heavily subsidised or more recently free. In fact in the UK it is hard to pick up a decent contract (plenty of minutes/texts and free internet) without getting a free phone. I tried once and it was more hassle then it was worth. You certainly wouldn't get a discount for it! So I always pick up the most expensive/useful handset at the time and now have a collection. I'm so fed up with WM series that those ones either run linux or collect dust. heckleGet to the point!/heckle Well, if your phone economy is anything like the UK stop waiting - go get a new phone and a new contract ASAP. It will be free and you will be paying for the neo unsubsidised whichever way you work it. That is exactly what I did. However, I will also be buying P1 hardware and P2 hardware. I believe that phones can be better then WM and intend to help make sure that openmoko is a step in the right direction. Ryan, with any luck you'll be able to get one on a subsidised contract within 2 years. Also, when I get P2 hardware I'd likely be happy to ship the P1 over to you ;) On 06/06/07, Ryan Prior [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm in the same situation. I need a phone, no question. The Neo 1973 is the phone I want, no question. The question is this: will the Neo1973 with WiFi be available by the time I cannot live without a phone for any longer? If the answer is no, I will be really disappointed, and it will probably be another two years before I will be able to economically justify a Neo1973. It isn't that I'm threatening anything... I love the concept of OpenMoko and plan to develop software for it, even if I can't get my hands on one. I wish the hardware team the best of luck, and I look forward to life in the trenches with the software team. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Clarification Rant
Hold on chaps. Every phone I have bought since I started using them (circa 98 - late starter, I know) has been heavily subsidised or more recently free. In fact in the UK it is hard to pick up a decent contract (plenty of minutes/texts and free internet) without getting a free phone. I tried once and it was more hassle then it was worth. You certainly wouldn't get a discount for it! So I always pick up the most expensive/useful handset at the time and now have a collection. I'm so fed up with WM series that those ones either run linux or collect dust. Why? Get subsidised phone - unlockable ones may have a premium. Ebay. Apply funds towards neo. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Clarification Rant
Again, please only respond to my Clarification email if you have something FACTUAL. This is my rant email, so if you are just anxious like me then respond to this. I've been following the project for quite some time now and was anxiously awaiting being able to purchase the phone in March (when it was originally scheduled to be available for developers), but that date came and passed and at the time I was ok with the setbacks. However, almost three months have passed and there is still no hardware available for me. Now to top it all off there has been talk of a hardware revision that will include some really good upgrades (that I would normally just wait for). However, my phone is on the skids and I am going to need to make a purchase soon. This is by no means a threat or whatever, but I'm seriously considering jumping ship on the project because I don't like waiting for something that I have no idea will ever come to fruition. There are plenty of phones that I could have now that I would be perfectly content with and every day that my current phone lets me down just makes it harder to...keep waiting. Before someone says that's just the way it is with hardware projects can continue playing the waiting game, but you may have to do it without me. I guess the point of this is to say that I am 100% behind OpenMoko, and I wish you the best but considering the circumstances I may have to either catch you in September (or later). I really need some details if I am going to be able to delay purchasing any longer. -Jonathon ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Clarification Rant
I'm in the same situation. I need a phone, no question. The Neo 1973 is the phone I want, no question. The question is this: will the Neo1973 with WiFi be available by the time I cannot live without a phone for any longer? If the answer is no, I will be really disappointed, and it will probably be another two years before I will be able to economically justify a Neo1973. It isn't that I'm threatening anything... I love the concept of OpenMoko and plan to develop software for it, even if I can't get my hands on one. I wish the hardware team the best of luck, and I look forward to life in the trenches with the software team. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Clarification
ti, 2007-06-05 kello 17:41 -0500, Jonathon Suggs kirjoitti: I'll be short and concise. In the hopes that people with the same questions will read this... 1) Do we have a time frame for when the GTA-01 will be available? Not really. We know they have a set of phones, and they're doing QA for them. Possibly within a week or two, but still guesswork, and they don't understandably want to say much until they know they have it this time. 2) What are the details GTA-02? a) Is GTA-02 the version with WiFi, accelerometers, upgraded CPU, etc? Yes. And an upgraded battery and a GPU, with support for OpenGL ME and mpeg-4 acceleration. No information on how much of its features will be driver-supported at GTA-02 launch, or when the launch will be. 3) What hardware will be used for the official September launch? One rather doubts it'll be a September launch at this point. Anyway, GTA-02 will be the mass market hardware. 4) What (if any) incentive will be given for people to purchase the upgraded hardware come September (whatever it will be)? There have been allusions to a GTA-01 owner discount for GTA-02; exact terms have not been discussed in public, more accurate information is to be expected when GTA-01 actually starts shipping. I don't represent FIC. I don't speak for them. This is hearsay, but educated hearsay from sources on this list, #openmoko IRC channel including people working on the Neos, and presentations the developers have given. I consider this information factual enough to answer your mail, especially since it's not likely the developers are willing to answer you in any more certain terms at this point in time, so I'm trying to save everyone time by collecting and conveying this info now. -- Mikko Rauhala - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - URL:http://www.iki.fi/mjr/ Transhumanist - WTA member - URL:http://www.transhumanism.org/ Singularitarian - SIAI supporter - URL:http://www.singinst.org/ ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Clarification: ETel social gathering
I've been reminded to point out that this is open to everyone, not only ETel attendees If you can not join us for dinner, you are more than welcome to join us later for drinks. You are welcome to call me to confirm our location and how much longer we'll be there, in case you have a long drive and want to make sure we'll still be there when you arrive. My phone number is on the wiki on the event page M On Tue, 27 Feb 2007, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 1. Sean suggested we meet for dinner on Thursday, then carry on to the bar later. You are welcome whenever, but please let us know on the wiki so we can reserve the appropriate size table http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/ETel#Social_Gathering 2. I took a video of Sean's presentation this morning. Sean has the tapes and will upload as soon as he can. Michael ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
