Re: Community-driven redesign / new theme for Paroli
wow! I like the settings button on screen (I don't like more the use of the AUX Button, I think that is not much intuitive). According to me another good thing is possibility to switch to the illume desktop by sliding the time bar from right to left. great work! On Wed, Jun 10, 2009 at 1:37 AM, pike pike-openm...@kw.nl wrote: Hi Hey great! All 'design guidelines' and things like that are great! I'd like you to explain more of what's happening in the screenshots. Tell what is new, why have you done it, what's the thinking behind it etc. I find it more easier to explain using pictures :-) Got a graphic mind I guess. Take a look at http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Image:Bab-1.2-3screens.png Any good interface has it's on Rythm Rhyme. On a single screen, your eye will catch the hidden grid and swerve around primary and secondary options in a split second. This works subliminally - you wouldn't even notice, but this is what makes an interface 'feel good'. This is even more true for phones, small screen, use it with one eye and one finger in a busy environment .. and between screens, your memory will recognize changes in that Rythm and Rhyme, too. Yes, a good interface is much like a poem, or a piece of music :-) .. so I was trying to find a grid, a basic layout, that fits all purposes. At the same time, this grid should be numberfriendly, as it has to be programmed in edje. You need a few classes of fonts, not a new font on every page. Same with colors, shades, etc. So that's basicly what this was http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Image:BAB-List-default-1.0-grid.png .. but it's already outdated :-) Such a grid should include whatever options you might think of in the future - dialogs, extra buttons, etc .. so that's basicly this http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Image:BAB-List-default-1.0.png For example, this big blocker bar (a modal dialog) is not actually used anywhere, but if it *would* be, it should be there (there is a modal dialog in the dial and when sending an sms, btw). Same for the informational bar - a thing that should hide itself once you touch the screen imho - its not used anywhere - but if it would be, it should be right there. And hey, it could say 52 messages, 4 unread, for an instance, couldnt it ? :-) what is new As little as possible :-D But, as I'm sketching and using the phone, a few things are indeed new and needed imho. - The next, back paradigm doesnt really work for me. I want to know *what* next is. back is not always where I came from. And above that, I don't always know where I am (this happens particularly in the settings, currently). So I've changed back and next to a virtual path and an action. There could be more actions, actually (eg in sms|read, you can delete and reply a message). If you click on an action, that should become part of your path in the next screen. For example, if you are in Setting | Wifi, the main action is Scan. In the next screen, the path should be Settings | Wifi | Scan. Action and Paths are CamelCased. - the panel (the top bar) should be removed in all screens if we are in windowed mode imho, because you now get two rows of similar icons. Ergo, there can be nothing essential in Paroli's panel that's not in the Illume panel. And hence, you need a different button to close a paroli app (like msgs) when you are not in full screen - because the clock should not be here. In fact, it should look like a close button: if you tap around Illume, you will find the chooser is still hanging around and not responding until you close the other screen. So that's what the funny circle is in the 3rd image at http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Image:BAB-List-default-1.0.png , a 'close button'. I also think the main screen, the launcher, should indicate it's waiting for the other app to quit. It would not harm if you are in fullscreen (since you won't see it) and it would be very beneficial in windowed mode. I have a screenshot of that, here .. - If you look at http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Image:Bab-1.2-3screens.png you'll see there are more ideas - and I have still more on paper. Most of them are optional. But I understand, doing something like what I sketched in the Launcher requires changing the whole way it works (in Python), not just changing edje files :-| The most important thing is, I think, I differentiate between primary and secondary options: The screen is divided in lines. Each line can only have one primary, big, white, option. If you click it, the background color of the whole line quickly hilites before the screen changes. A line can have several secondary (small, grey, lowercased) options. If you click it, only the font color quickly switches before the screen changes. I think this differentation is usefull, as it gives a user an idea about the default
Re: Community-driven redesign / new theme for Paroli
Hi I like the settings button on screen (I don't like more the use of the AUX Button, I think that is not much intuitive). That's easy, actually. Edit /usr/share/paroli/Applications/Settings/settings.py to change category to launcher. I did that, and it works. $2c, *-pike ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Community-driven redesign / new theme for Paroli
On Wed, Jun 10, 2009 at 2:39 PM, pikepike-openm...@kw.nl wrote: Hi I like the settings button on screen (I don't like more the use of the AUX Button, I think that is not much intuitive). That's easy, actually. Edit /usr/share/paroli/Applications/Settings/settings.py to change category to launcher. I did that, and it works. To be more specific, it's /usr/share/paroli/applications/settings/settings.py I can't believe how simple this is. Awesome, thanks pike for this!! I really think you should create a new theme for us (as you seem to know some of the tricks there already :) r -- | risto h. kurppa | risto at kurppa dot fi | http://risto.kurppa.fi ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Community-driven redesign / new theme for Paroli
Hi Thanks for thinking and investigating time about paroli look! Thanks for your reply - I missed it in the bulk. I have read your proposal, however I dont really get the sizzle part (maybe because of my weak english skills). Well, the 'sizzle' could be anything. I'd like to see the phone get excited once you start touching it; it can be boring as dead if its laying on the table, in fact, I'd like that. But when you touch it, ... yes, I have a sort of erotic concept here :-) As for the hilites - I understand there is no 'hoover'; but there is a split second before the screen actually changes. about 0.2 seconds will be exactly enough to give the feeling it's sizzling :-) I've seen this behaviour in om2008 - the same green - it was exciting. I assume someone (Mirko?) is still leading on development of paroli. That is true, Mirko is still around, and leading paroli development. Im messing with the gui here and there. OK, that's good to know. I'm actually not sure if I'll make the dive into edje soon :-| I don't like edje very much from the looks of it. Yeah, Im almost done, with the most basic and urgent improvements (back button everywhere). Great - sorry - that's not what I meant - I meant, I don't like edje as a gui language. I was taught there.is.only.xul :-) nice video btw ! *-pike ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Community-driven redesign / new theme for Paroli
Hi We are in, task 2 done you can see and download them at http://www.tuxbrain.com/node/19 ok - I have similar screenshots at http://pike.kw.nl/browse/files/projects/pike/2009/om2009/parolishots I was aiming at a more graphic redesign, so it includes screenshots with raster keyboard and paroli-in-illume (which imho should be considered in the design efforts - most people will -have to- actually use it windowed). $2c, *-pike ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Community-driven redesign / new theme for Paroli
Hi Hey great! All 'design guidelines' and things like that are great! I'd like you to explain more of what's happening in the screenshots. Tell what is new, why have you done it, what's the thinking behind it etc. I find it more easier to explain using pictures :-) Got a graphic mind I guess. Take a look at http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Image:Bab-1.2-3screens.png Any good interface has it's on Rythm Rhyme. On a single screen, your eye will catch the hidden grid and swerve around primary and secondary options in a split second. This works subliminally - you wouldn't even notice, but this is what makes an interface 'feel good'. This is even more true for phones, small screen, use it with one eye and one finger in a busy environment .. and between screens, your memory will recognize changes in that Rythm and Rhyme, too. Yes, a good interface is much like a poem, or a piece of music :-) .. so I was trying to find a grid, a basic layout, that fits all purposes. At the same time, this grid should be numberfriendly, as it has to be programmed in edje. You need a few classes of fonts, not a new font on every page. Same with colors, shades, etc. So that's basicly what this was http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Image:BAB-List-default-1.0-grid.png .. but it's already outdated :-) Such a grid should include whatever options you might think of in the future - dialogs, extra buttons, etc .. so that's basicly this http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Image:BAB-List-default-1.0.png For example, this big blocker bar (a modal dialog) is not actually used anywhere, but if it *would* be, it should be there (there is a modal dialog in the dial and when sending an sms, btw). Same for the informational bar - a thing that should hide itself once you touch the screen imho - its not used anywhere - but if it would be, it should be right there. And hey, it could say 52 messages, 4 unread, for an instance, couldnt it ? :-) what is new As little as possible :-D But, as I'm sketching and using the phone, a few things are indeed new and needed imho. - The next, back paradigm doesnt really work for me. I want to know *what* next is. back is not always where I came from. And above that, I don't always know where I am (this happens particularly in the settings, currently). So I've changed back and next to a virtual path and an action. There could be more actions, actually (eg in sms|read, you can delete and reply a message). If you click on an action, that should become part of your path in the next screen. For example, if you are in Setting | Wifi, the main action is Scan. In the next screen, the path should be Settings | Wifi | Scan. Action and Paths are CamelCased. - the panel (the top bar) should be removed in all screens if we are in windowed mode imho, because you now get two rows of similar icons. Ergo, there can be nothing essential in Paroli's panel that's not in the Illume panel. And hence, you need a different button to close a paroli app (like msgs) when you are not in full screen - because the clock should not be here. In fact, it should look like a close button: if you tap around Illume, you will find the chooser is still hanging around and not responding until you close the other screen. So that's what the funny circle is in the 3rd image at http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Image:BAB-List-default-1.0.png , a 'close button'. I also think the main screen, the launcher, should indicate it's waiting for the other app to quit. It would not harm if you are in fullscreen (since you won't see it) and it would be very beneficial in windowed mode. I have a screenshot of that, here .. - If you look at http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Image:Bab-1.2-3screens.png you'll see there are more ideas - and I have still more on paper. Most of them are optional. But I understand, doing something like what I sketched in the Launcher requires changing the whole way it works (in Python), not just changing edje files :-| The most important thing is, I think, I differentiate between primary and secondary options: The screen is divided in lines. Each line can only have one primary, big, white, option. If you click it, the background color of the whole line quickly hilites before the screen changes. A line can have several secondary (small, grey, lowercased) options. If you click it, only the font color quickly switches before the screen changes. I think this differentation is usefull, as it gives a user an idea about the default action - go forward - and several sideoptions - delete that thing, go back - without visually cluttering the screen. Anyway .. that's a lot of text. Maybe I should get into edje. Or maybe I should get XULRunner to work on my phone :-D $2c, *-pike ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org
Re: Community-driven redesign / new theme for Paroli
THIS IS BIG! Thank you pike for the time you've used for this. I see that these things have some experience and knowledge about usability in it and I'd certainly like to see this implemented - I'm sure it's easier to learn how to use. You're so right about the clear division of primarysecondary etc. Awesome work with the mockups. Please join #paroli to start learning edje, I'd guess khiraly and vegyraupe(=mirko) are ready to help you with it. Keep up the good work!! Risto ps. would be nice to get this concept in the wiki so it wouldn't be lost in the mail archives, would you put it here: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Paroli-themes -- | risto h. kurppa | risto at kurppa dot fi | http://risto.kurppa.fi ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Community-driven redesign / new theme for Paroli
On Wed, Jun 10, 2009 at 5:07 AM, pikepike-openm...@kw.nl wrote: But, as I'm sketching and using the phone, a few things are indeed new and needed imho. - The next, back paradigm doesnt really work for me. I want to know *what* next is. back is not always where I came from. And above that, I don't always know where I am (this happens particularly in the settings, currently). So I've changed back and next to a virtual path and an action. There could be more actions, actually (eg in sms|read, you can delete and reply a message). If you click on an action, that should become part of your path in the next screen. For example, if you are in Setting | Wifi, the main action is Scan. In the next screen, the path should be Settings | Wifi | Scan. Action and Paths are CamelCased. +1 for this idea. -- Regards Shashank As our circle of knowledge expands, so does the circumference of darkness surrounding it - Albert Einstein ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Community-driven redesign / new theme for Paroli
I haven't really done that; but instead, I've been translating my 'few optimisations' into a 'few mockups' and added them here http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Paroli-themes Thanks for thinking and investigating time about paroli look! I have read your proposal, however I dont really get the sizzle part (maybe because of my weak english skills). If this sizzle thing would mean, that the actual selected element should be highlighted (green). That I think it is not really doable because of the hardware. This touchscreen is point and click. So there is nothing like hovering an element what is common on a desktop with a mouse. If the proposal is the selected (clicked) item should be green instead of white? That is a fair point. And I think it should be a good first step to a more eyecandy paroli theme. (we could create some themes, where we only changes some basic colors, like: greenish, bluish, pinkish themes). And it is really easy to do this, as there is only some color value editing is needed. Mostly like this: color: 0 0 0 255 // red green blue alpha to: color: 100 123 0 200 //red green blue alpha So creating some basic different color styles is really easy, and the programming skills required is nearly nonexistent. .. but it was a bit confusing to do that. I assume someone (Mirko?) is still leading on development of paroli. That is true, Mirko is still around, and leading paroli development. And I assume something like this - simply optimizing the default ui - has been in someones agenda already. Im messing with the gui here and there. Ofcourse, I could just start making my own edje files. But if another, also improved, paroli is coming along, why would I. And I don't like edje very much from the looks of it. Yeah, Im almost done, with the most basic and urgent improvements (back button everywhere). Install the newest om2009 unstable, or see the introduction video to Paroli what I posted in an other thread for the current status. Unless, ofcourse, someone finds this very interesting. In which case I might have a few spare evenings to do some more. Every contribution is interesting. Even if I see your them not pleasent, its worth the effort to create it anyway. Because somebody likes it more then me. I see it this way: Im improving the default theme here and there, I fix mostly usability adjust some font size and placing. But nothing really radical. Mirko does the same. If somebody creates an alternate theme (and even he only changes some of the colors), we will it incorporate into paroli and make it selectable (through settings for example). Whether the new theme should be default or not, can be a good candidate of community voting. This is only my view of things. But I have seen Mirko is very open in every UI ideas. He already implemented slidings on the gui, easy scrolling, so pretty much everything is possible. Otherwise, I might still make a text version of the 'few optimisations' I could think of, anyway. I would really like to see you creating a theme where you only change some colors, and such. It is relatively easy and its only one file/application needs to be overwritten. If the theme is done, Im sure we can incorporate as a selectable theme into paroli. (no more overwrite required). When the basic infrastructure is figured out, you can continue of the theme development. Placing images here and there, make some item transparent, animations, etc. There is already a guy (Victor) who created some alternate icons. There is you who have some improvements idea and made some mockups. Keep you guys coming these nice things! Laszlo ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Community-driven redesign / new theme for Paroli
Hi I'm keeping a list of a few optimisations i can think of; i'll fill it over the next few days; .. and i'll add them as a 'design concept', if that seems appropriate. I haven't really done that; but instead, I've been translating my 'few optimisations' into a 'few mockups' and added them here http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Paroli-themes .. but it was a bit confusing to do that. I assume someone (Mirko?) is still leading on development of paroli. And I assume something like this - simply optimizing the default ui - has been in someones agenda already. Ofcourse, I could just start making my own edje files. But if another, also improved, paroli is coming along, why would I. And I don't like edje very much from the looks of it. Unless, ofcourse, someone finds this very interesting. In which case I might have a few spare evenings to do some more. Otherwise, I might still make a text version of the 'few optimisations' I could think of, anyway. $2c, *-pike ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Community-driven redesign / new theme for Paroli
Hey great! All 'design guidelines' and things like that are great! I'd like you to explain more of what's happening in the screenshots. Tell what is new, why have you done it, what's the thinking behind it etc. I'll try to come back to this later, hope someone will answer to you,too. r -- | risto h. kurppa | risto at kurppa dot fi | http://risto.kurppa.fi ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Community-driven redesign / new theme for Paroli
On Fri, May 22, 2009 at 8:17 AM, Max m...@darim.com wrote: That's really interesting initiative. However it's unclear how do we handle rotation with this approach. I think it's one of the crucial things about themes - to be able to work (e. g. look feel nice) after rotation. If you ask me, the design should not be the same after rotation - it's a different screen after that - the layout should change, too. So I'd like to see two variations of each theme: one for horiz and one for vertical position so that they're really mentioned to work on those positions.. r -- | risto h. kurppa | risto at kurppa dot fi | http://risto.kurppa.fi ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Community-driven redesign / new theme for Paroli
2009/5/19 Rui Miguel Silva Seabra r...@1407.org: * What kind of effects do we have available? Fading, sliding..? I'd like to see it smoooth bling bling to impress my fellow Nokianians That smells like sowww UI on this hardware, sadly :( This _might_ change if the xf86-video-glamo developers can get rid of the terrible CPU stalling waits that are currently used. Ie. in the exa-via-dri branch. Also, something like illume task switcher was already pretty smooth scrolling at best, so if X is just used sparingly (like Enlightenment 17 often does), it might be doable to do already some smoothish scrolling. -Timo ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Community-driven redesign / new theme for Paroli
snip Tasks: 1. create a central communication point (wiki is enough?) 2. take all those screenshots 3. create an inkscape .svg file (already done) 4. import those screenshots in there 5. import the images from edje directories (call button, delete button, etc) 6. start drawing proposing consistent layout, etc. Who is in? We are in, task 2 done you can see and download them at http://www.tuxbrain.com/node/19 Victor , my buddy and designer/artists of Tuxbrain will take a look and will participate on this proposal , but it a little bit scared about the volume of the list and he let me read and filter it , so any one that need contact him directly can email at victor at tuxbrain.com Laszlo ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- David Reyes Samblas Martinez http://www.tuxbrain.com Open ultraportable embedded solutions Openmoko, Openpandora, Arduino Hey, watch out!!! There's a linux in your pocket!!! ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Community-driven redesign / new theme for Paroli
On Fri, May 22, 2009 at 11:16:17AM +0300, Risto H. Kurppa wrote: On Fri, May 22, 2009 at 8:17 AM, Max m...@darim.com wrote: That's really interesting initiative. However it's unclear how do we handle rotation with this approach. I think it's one of the crucial things about themes - to be able to work (e. g. look feel nice) after rotation. If you ask me, the design should not be the same after rotation - it's a different screen after that - the layout should change, too. So I'd like to see two variations of each theme: one for horiz and one for vertical position so that they're really mentioned to work on those positions.. Which is why I would like d-bus to be easier to work with, in order to have omnewrotate broadcast what it thinks the position is. Also, to receive a signal requesting not to rotate and releasing such a signal. This should be standardized in order to allow other apps to play well with each other. Rui ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Community-driven redesign / new theme for Paroli
Am Freitag, 22. Mai 2009 10:16:17 schrieb Risto H. Kurppa: On Fri, May 22, 2009 at 8:17 AM, Max m...@darim.com wrote: That's really interesting initiative. However it's unclear how do we handle rotation with this approach. I think it's one of the crucial things about themes - to be able to work (e. g. look feel nice) after rotation. If you ask me, the design should not be the same after rotation - it's a different screen after that - the layout should change, too. So I'd like to see two variations of each theme: one for horiz and one for vertical position so that they're really mentioned to work on those positions.. At least for illume what about leaving the top bar on the top, now one of the sides, and have icons in it be rotated so that it slides in from that side (configurable?), but has it's gravity still real-world- downwards. [eeeh. Understandable? :) ] -- Marcel ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Community-driven redesign / new theme for Paroli
On Fri, May 22, 2009 at 11:19 AM, David Reyes Samblas Martinez da...@tuxbrain.com wrote: We are in, task 2 done you can see and download them at http://www.tuxbrain.com/node/19 Victor , my buddy and designer/artists of Tuxbrain will take a look and will participate on this proposal , but it a little bit scared about the volume of the list and he let me read and filter it , so any one that need contact him directly can email at victor at tuxbrain.com Hi! Good to hear! Why not join to irc.freenode.net #paroli ? Im in the middle of redesign the default gui (mainly to be consistent, buttons be always finger friendly and at the expected place) I also created some graphics too. So if you/he want to help to develope the *default* look, is the best to join to #paroli, and we can talk about it. (how can he try the new gui, how it like, etc). Or the other possibility is to design a completely new look, in that case only inkscape required. Im more than happy to help out the implementation (.edc file), and Im sure mirko too. Im focusing on the default look right now. I expect to release it the next week (need to talk iwth mirko and nytowl about an experimental ui release). So every helping hand is welcomed. Laszlo ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Community-driven redesign / new theme for Paroli
On Mon, May 18, 2009 at 10:55 PM, Risto H. Kurppa ri...@kurppa.fi wrote: I don't know exactly how doable it is. As far as I know, it's possible to create themes for Paroli. I don't know what parts can be changed or how to do it but I believe that if people are interested, it'll all come out nicely: I'm sure someone here knows the good old penpaper thing (or GIMP or Inkscape :) to design a GUI for Paroli. We add some user experience skills to give it the usability touch. I'm also sure there are people here who know enough about themes and python to implement the template. I have spent some time in paroli theming, and how this whole e stuff works together. So I would like to propose the following thing. As the paroli gui itself is a bit in flux, needs some consistency here and there, the best way to involve the community, is to draw invidual screens how each pages should look like. There is not so much screens in paroli: - homescreen - people app screen, people-contact_detail, new_contact_dialer, new_contact_name - io - msgs, new_msgs_dialer, new_msgs_text, msgs_error_popup - tele - settings, settings-* Its only 12 screens and the settings submenus. So I think taking screenshot on every screen, put them into an inkscape.svg file, import most of the images from edje directories, and we can evolve from there. We define the svg page to be 480x640 px. We draw a main black rectangle at this size. We draw 480x65 rectangle for the illume top bar, and we are settle. (the paroli window is 480x575px, and its stretched when needed, ie in fullscreen or when the keyboard is shown) I have already created some concept drawings in inkscape, if there are interest I can share it: http://laszlo.krekacs.googlepages.com/default_view.png And we can even write some explanation to the others: http://laszlo.krekacs.googlepages.com/selected_item.png We can draw the whole interface in inkscape, and export directly as .png images to the theme. Its not that hard. I have created a call/hang up icon, here is a screenshot: http://www.paroli-project.org/pics/Screenshot-3.png Tasks: 1. create a central communication point (wiki is enough?) 2. take all those screenshots 3. create an inkscape .svg file (already done) 4. import those screenshots in there 5. import the images from edje directories (call button, delete button, etc) 6. start drawing proposing consistent layout, etc. Who is in? Laszlo ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Community-driven redesign / new theme for Paroli
That's really interesting initiative. However it's unclear how do we handle rotation with this approach. I think it's one of the crucial things about themes - to be able to work (e. g. look feel nice) after rotation. thank you, Max. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Community-driven redesign / new theme for Paroli
I agree that it'd be nice that all apps could know in what position the phone is and also to be able to request / prevent the rotation, more or less how suspend works atm. Back to the business.. anyone interested in participating? Creating a mockup of a new ui to discuss further.. I saw some sliding things in Paroli I got the idea of menu that'd be kind of mesh where you start in the middle and then it'd show where the nodes would take you and you'd slide to that direction to get to that menu and then you'd see the options there and so on.. Something like this: http://iguide.travel/photos/Brussels-6.jpg :D I guess this is a bit beyond current Paroli. Just an idea. r -- | risto h. kurppa | risto at kurppa dot fi | http://risto.kurppa.fi ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Community-driven redesign / new theme for Paroli
Hi I'm sure there are professional designers and user experts around who could use some of the skills they have and this way also help OM: by making more people interested in using developing Paroli (at least I first check the 'Screenshots' page of a new F/LOSS app I find and often judge based on what I see :) Which is exactly what made me move to om2009... the screenshots of Paroli. Paroli is very PRETTY imho, just being as minimal as it is. It counters iphones graphical abundance very well, yet still being comparibly stylish. It counters androids mediocre desktop-emulation, yet being very featurefull (optionally). Among the wishlist I see - paroli polished UI and I see ideas on the mailinglist to bring all sorts of features to paroli. Is that the intention for om2009 too - to ship Paroli fancier ? I mean, is what I'm looking at a 'barebones product' designwise ? Community-driven design is almost a contradiction in term. Most opensource products are just damn ugly. A designer requires some authority to create a consistent, stylish end product, and authority means limitations on the developers. I remember mails about the 'wrench' icon in om2008 .. :-) If anyone, I would just have a typographer look at Paroli shortly, to make it pixelperfect; an interaction designer to top off some usability issues, and to give the end user some play, allow him to change fonts, colors and background - nothing more. Avoid application icons. I saw some sliding things in Paroli I got the idea of menu that'd be kind of mesh where you start in the middle and then it'd show where the nodes would take you and you'd slide to that direction to get to that menu and then you'd see the options there and so on.. That would be great .. as a selectable thing. But I would smile and return to the default Paroli after playing around, probably :-) I'm keeping a list of a few optimisations i can think of; i'll fill it over the next few days; but they're really minor, mostly just a matter of finetuning edje files, probably. I really respect the work that Mirko is doing with Paroli. Second that ! Great job ! thanks, *-pike ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Community-driven redesign / new theme for Paroli
Hi I'm keeping a list of a few optimisations i can think of; i'll fill it over the next few days; .. and i'll add them to http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Paroli-themes as a 'design concept', if that seems appropriate. $2c, *-pike ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Community-driven redesign / new theme for Paroli
I'm interested - however, I think you might want to set a bit more direction in terms of where you want to go with it. The problem is that UI's are very subjective. I saw at least one person say that the current paroli UI in OM2009 is good, whereas I think it's at best kinda boring... and I'd suggest you might want to go a bit further than just a 'theme'. I'd like to see some serious thought put into the whole user experience - how does the user make a call, send an SMS, start an app, etc. Risto - can you say a little bit about how *you* would like things to look and work? Is there an existing phone or PDA UI that you think we could borrow good ideas from? Warren On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 8:17 AM, Risto H. Kurppa ri...@kurppa.fi wrote: I agree that it'd be nice that all apps could know in what position the phone is and also to be able to request / prevent the rotation, more or less how suspend works atm. Back to the business.. anyone interested in participating? Creating a mockup of a new ui to discuss further.. I saw some sliding things in Paroli I got the idea of menu that'd be kind of mesh where you start in the middle and then it'd show where the nodes would take you and you'd slide to that direction to get to that menu and then you'd see the options there and so on.. Something like this: http://iguide.travel/photos/Brussels-6.jpg :D I guess this is a bit beyond current Paroli. Just an idea. r -- | risto h. kurppa | risto at kurppa dot fi | http://risto.kurppa.fi ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- Warren Baird - Photographer and Digital Artist http://www.synergisticimages.ca ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Community-driven redesign / new theme for Paroli
On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 5:34 PM, Warren Baird wjba...@alumni.uwaterloo.ca wrote: I'm interested - however, I think you might want to set a bit more direction in terms of where you want to go with it. The problem is that UI's are very subjective. I saw at least one person say that the current paroli UI in OM2009 is good, whereas I think it's at best kinda boring... and I'd suggest you might want to go a bit further than just a 'theme'. I'd like to see some serious thought put into the whole user experience - how does the user make a call, send an SMS, start an app, etc. Warren, you're reading my mind :) It's impossible to create a UI that pleases everyone. We have the freedom to create many choices (whereas closed mobile phones stick to one - maybe change the background image :) so why not enjoy that freedom with a selection of themes..? And I definitely agree that the whole usage process could be rethinked. I'm not saying the way Paroli now works is bad but I'd like to play a bit with it.. Today I realised that the trying to fit the concept of physical keyboard just sucks - so I tried qwo (Quickwriting keyboard or something, see http://www.opkg.org/package_84.html, install and activate with the illume wrench) and fell in love: instead of trying to hit small areas I can slide my finger/stylus around the screen: works much better when walking.. So kind of a redesign of the whole cellphone UI concept and workflow. Risto - can you say a little bit about how *you* would like things to look and work? Is there an existing phone or PDA UI that you think we could borrow good ideas from? Have think a bit.. Generally I admit that I like colours. KDE4.3b1 surprised me (ok, I changed the background image to the bright green leaf :) - It's just pretty. I think the Linux desktop has had the problem of looking ugly (vs. Windows or Mac OSX) for years and only recently with Compiz etc (KDE4, if you ask me :) it has started to really look good and compete even beat the competitors. And I'd like to see this happening on the linux phone as well. Why make it uglysimpleminimalistic when it could just Look Good (TM). And yes, people like different things. I already mentioned something: I saw some sliding things in Paroli I got the idea of menu that'd be kind of mesh where you start in the middle and then it'd show where the nodes would take you and you'd slide to that direction to get to that menu and then you'd see the options there and so on.. I also played with the idea of not separating messages, people and calls but I wasn't able to make much sense there. But I think that messages and calls could all be on the same list, after all they're all some kind of events or connections taken. So maybe the dialler and sending an SMS could be more or less the same thing and phone log and reading SMS's could be in the same list, sorted by the time. Ok, maybe it could have a filter (or search) to show only SMS's or only events that have something to do with person X in my phone book. And I like to be able to see what can I click and what not - I like that a button looks more or less like a button. In 'advanced GUI' I'd like to have some kind of beginner mode that'd give me hints (like small arrows or something) to tell me things I can do - and then have the option of turning it off when I know my way around my phone. Ok, some more challenges: how about a mokomaze-gui: you roll the ball from menu item to another - that's also something we can and have the freedom to do. I have no idea how usable that would be but I'd definitely give it a try if someone implemented. Plot it on a map and give the people coordinates and you can call them by rolling the ball to their house. Keylock would work by taking your 'ball of life' to a cage in the corner and only way out would be to bounce the ball away from there. Or to pick from 300 contacts you would roll the ball to the letters of the name one at the time and the app would of course provide only the combination of letters that exist in the phone book (actually there was a input method for desktop computers mouse, can't remember the name - can't find screenshots). That's a start - feel free to add and play with the ideas :) r -- | risto h. kurppa | risto at kurppa dot fi | http://risto.kurppa.fi ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Community-driven redesign / new theme for Paroli
On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 06:46:33PM +0300, Risto H. Kurppa wrote: Have think a bit.. Generally I admit that I like colours. KDE4.3b1 I actually think that the balck screen is quite cool but it has it's fair share of problems. Currently, it doesn't have enough visual cues for what you can/should do, so you gotta guess a lot where to press. Also the back button is finger nail friendly and not finger friendly, but that'll improve. Also, the black screen with white text may not be the most visible in certain light conditions (the Sun, for instance), but most of the blame there isn't exactly on the colour :( Anyways, for when a testing4 image? :) Rui -- Wibble. Today is Setting Orange, the 67th day of Discord in the YOLD 3175 + No matter how much you do, you never do enough -- unknown + Whatever you do will be insignificant, | but it is very important that you do it -- Gandhi + So let's do it...? ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Community-driven redesign / new theme for Paroli
On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 12:08:13PM -0600, Angus Ainslie wrote: On May 20, 2009 09:56:10 am Rui Miguel Silva Seabra wrote: Anyways, for when a testing4 image? :) I'm hoping for this week, but it may be Monday Craving for it. I'm in test mode (1week with testing 2, 1week with shr-testing, 1week with shr-unstable, and by the looks of it 1week of testing 4 real soon now...) Best, Rui -- P'tang! Today is Setting Orange, the 67th day of Discord in the YOLD 3175 + No matter how much you do, you never do enough -- unknown + Whatever you do will be insignificant, | but it is very important that you do it -- Gandhi + So let's do it...? ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Community-driven redesign / new theme for Paroli
Hi I saw at least one person say that the current paroli UI in OM2009 is good, whereas I think it's at best kinda boring... Boring ? :-) It's a bold statement ! It's just what you need to stand out. But ofcourse, I'm all for themes and skins, too. And re: community design being bad - that's why I'm trying to find the professionals who have the skills to do it.. I guess one can't say that whatever a community does will fail: it must sometimes also succeed, I believe :) I didnt mean to say 'opensource people are bad designers', but that designing in a opensource world is harder. Good design is consistent up to very extreme detail, and its subjective, too. That's a lot easier if someone in some team has the position to bully other people around ... The old 'wrench' issue is a good example of that http://docs.openmoko.org/trac/ticket/1863 When I first saw paroli, it struck me. That's one way to avoid the problem. Minimalism. That's easier to be consistent, at least. 2$c, *-pike ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Community-driven redesign / new theme for Paroli
Hi my fellow Freerunnerians! BACKGROUND # OM2009 [1] and Paroli [2] (as well as opimd, FSO, Enlightenment and all apps :) are under heavy development. For those who have tried OM2009 (latest image is testing3, released about 10 days ago) with Paroli have had to spend some minutes playing around with it to learn how it works: I guess most of us tried the I/O menu [3] first and get to a screen that only has a button 'edit' and that's it [4] [5]. I really respect the work that Mirko is doing with Paroli. I don't understand everything what's being said but Paroli is told to be easily extendable (.py plugins) to do almost anything. It can run on multiple devices and distros (Currently OM2009 and SHR, Debian to come with the new elementary or something..). At the moment it's already a working phone application - it has passed the high standards of long call to my mum, even overseas :). So I really see it worth contributing to with all the skills we have. WHAT? ## To give Paroli an extra boost I suggest that we create an alternative theme for Paroli. The one Mirko OM are writing will work fine but it really wouldn't hurt to see some new themes. I'm sure there are professional designers and user experts around who could use some of the skills they have and this way also help OM: by making more people interested in using developing Paroli (at least I first check the 'Screenshots' page of a new F/LOSS app I find and often judge based on what I see :) WHO HOW? ### I don't know exactly how doable it is. As far as I know, it's possible to create themes for Paroli. I don't know what parts can be changed or how to do it but I believe that if people are interested, it'll all come out nicely: I'm sure someone here knows the good old penpaper thing (or GIMP or Inkscape :) to design a GUI for Paroli. We add some user experience skills to give it the usability touch. I'm also sure there are people here who know enough about themes and python to implement the template. Maybe we even have people around who can write us a theme switcher? Creating a theme must not be that hard if it's well supported in Paroli so I really believe we can do it - together. If you know anything about design, themes or Paroli please share it with us in this thread to encourage others. Let's start the discussion here. As soon as something comes up, let's add it here: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Paroli-themes - let your imagination flow and create mockups to be shared! Enjoy your freedom!! r ps. some thoughts I have right now: * SMS writing in landscape mode: one small (but readable) line for text and HUGE keyboard to be used with your fingers while walking * What kind of effects do we have available? Fading, sliding..? I'd like to see it smoooth bling bling to impress my fellow Nokianians [1] http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Om2009 [2] http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Paroli [3] http://www.paroli-project.org/running-paroli/io/ [4] http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2009-May/047818.html [5] http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2009-May/047897.html -- | risto h. kurppa | risto at kurppa dot fi | http://risto.kurppa.fi ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Community-driven redesign / new theme for Paroli
On Mon, May 18, 2009 at 11:55:57PM +0300, Risto H. Kurppa wrote: ps. some thoughts I have right now: * SMS writing in landscape mode: one small (but readable) line for text and HUGE keyboard to be used with your fingers while walking I'd like to throw a dbus signal warning subscribing apps the phone is on landscape or portrait mode. I think one of the problem for the current GUI apps is not knowing hte orientation. Whatever position omnewrotate infers, most apps have no idea something has changed and they just look horrible (at best) and unusable (most of the time). * What kind of effects do we have available? Fading, sliding..? I'd like to see it smoooth bling bling to impress my fellow Nokianians That smells like sowww UI on this hardware, sadly :( Rui -- Kallisti! Today is Pungenday, the 65th day of Discord in the YOLD 3175 + No matter how much you do, you never do enough -- unknown + Whatever you do will be insignificant, | but it is very important that you do it -- Gandhi + So let's do it...? ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Community-driven redesign / new theme for Paroli
On Monday 18 May 2009 22:14:00 Rui Miguel Silva Seabra wrote: On Mon, May 18, 2009 at 11:55:57PM +0300, Risto H. Kurppa wrote: ps. some thoughts I have right now: * SMS writing in landscape mode: one small (but readable) line for text and HUGE keyboard to be used with your fingers while walking I'd like to throw a dbus signal warning subscribing apps the phone is on landscape or portrait mode. I think one of the problem for the current GUI apps is not knowing hte orientation. And some way (another dbus signal) which apps (mokomaze) can use to disable screen rotation when they're running - it would be good for the active call (part of the) program to use this otherwise you never know what button you're pressing. solar.george (OK neither a paroli or a theme thought but i suppose a general useability one counts too) signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Community-driven redesign / new theme for Paroli
On Mon, May 18, 2009 at 10:26:22PM +0100, George Brooke wrote: On Monday 18 May 2009 22:14:00 Rui Miguel Silva Seabra wrote: On Mon, May 18, 2009 at 11:55:57PM +0300, Risto H. Kurppa wrote: ps. some thoughts I have right now: * SMS writing in landscape mode: one small (but readable) line for text and HUGE keyboard to be used with your fingers while walking I'd like to throw a dbus signal warning subscribing apps the phone is on landscape or portrait mode. I think one of the problem for the current GUI apps is not knowing hte orientation. And some way (another dbus signal) which apps (mokomaze) can use to disable screen rotation when they're running - it would be good for the active call (part of the) program to use this otherwise you never know what button you're pressing. Yeah, that too, but for the time being I just click on the desktop icon to toggle running omnewrotate or not (I have only disabled it for playing the addictive mokomaze) :) Rui -- You are what you see. Today is Pungenday, the 65th day of Discord in the YOLD 3175 + No matter how much you do, you never do enough -- unknown + Whatever you do will be insignificant, | but it is very important that you do it -- Gandhi + So let's do it...? ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Community-driven redesign / new theme for Paroli
On Monday 18 May 2009 23:14:56 Rui Miguel Silva Seabra wrote: On Mon, May 18, 2009 at 10:26:22PM +0100, George Brooke wrote: On Monday 18 May 2009 22:14:00 Rui Miguel Silva Seabra wrote: On Mon, May 18, 2009 at 11:55:57PM +0300, Risto H. Kurppa wrote: ps. some thoughts I have right now: * SMS writing in landscape mode: one small (but readable) line for text and HUGE keyboard to be used with your fingers while walking I'd like to throw a dbus signal warning subscribing apps the phone is on landscape or portrait mode. I think one of the problem for the current GUI apps is not knowing hte orientation. And some way (another dbus signal) which apps (mokomaze) can use to disable screen rotation when they're running - it would be good for the active call (part of the) program to use this otherwise you never know what button you're pressing. Yeah, that too, but for the time being I just click on the desktop icon to toggle running omnewrotate or not (I have only disabled it for playing the addictive mokomaze) :) Rui Now I feel a bit of an idiot, i've been dropping to the command line and doing a killall omnewrotate before playing mokomaze (or letting anyone else play it) solar.george signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
