Re: Exact release date of GTA02v4?
Hello Michael A fair and good answer, i feel that much good information have come up to the surface under the last days posts, besides the flame ones. We now have an exact progress report, status on the device and in which timeframe its planned to be released/shipped in the best case. Maybe a link to this information and the compare of the GTA01 vrs GTA02 can be created for easy access in the main link menu or in the top of the wiki that are easy to spot would be a good idea. Also where you or others can update the progress of the device? I think that would decrease guestions regarding this matter in the future. Thanx! /Andreas On 10/25/07, Michael Shiloh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello Andreas, and everyone else, Andreas writes: Thats no problem, i can be very patient. I think what the community want is just a date, when the device is planned to be shipped. Many years ago, I had a running joke with a co-worker. Every time someone said just we would role our eyes at each other and repeat the sentence, emphasizing the word just. As others here have explained, we are involving the community in the process of designing, manufacturing, and distributing in a way that is simply not done. We are experimenting and learning as we go along. There are no models for this sort of project, no experts to turn to to ask how is this done. It seems so simple, but in fact it is extremely complicated. If you look at the history of this mailing list, you will see that Sean, Harald, and others started off being very generous with their information, and then having to spend a tremendous amount of energy calming angry readers when deadlines were missed. As you continue to study the history of this mailing list, you will notice an increasing level of frustration in all parties. This is one reason I was brought in. Having come from the community, I hopefully represent the community well, but now in the company, I hopefully can balance being in both worlds. My goal is not to get as frustrated as Sean or Harald or the others who have gone before me. Perhaps since I'm in the middle, I'm supposed to get half as frustrated :-) In fact this is very complicated. Since everyone in OpenMoko knows that I am the channel to the community, I suspect there is a certain reluctance to being completely open with me. Believe me, I have as hard a time getting updates from OpenMoko people as you have getting it from me. (Again, since I'm in the middle, perhaps this is exactly as it should be.) On the other hand, the community knows that I know more than they do, and don't understand why I can't share all this information. So to answer your question, Andreas: We can not give the community the date for when the device is planned to ship, because we do not have such a date. What we have is a plan that gets increasingly vague as it moves into the future. What I know for sure: We, and Harald in particular, are quite happy with GTA02v3. GTA02v4 has been made and should be showing up on Harald's desk any day now. True, I said this a couple of days ago, and I have not yet received any confirmation that the device has shown up on his desk, so I must presume it has not yet. Once GTA02v4 shows up on Harald's desk, there will follow a period of very careful inspection and testing. Only when there is a high level of confidence will we move forward. How long will this take? We don't know. It depends on what we find. For example, remember that the drivers aren't all finished. This means that the testing will sometimes be delayed pending drivers, and other times will be tested with test software that (we hope) is very similar to the drivers, but whether it is sufficiently similar we won't know until the driver is finished. So someone might need to make the decision of whether to approve of the subsystem under test after having been verified by the test software, or whether to wait for the driver itself. Obviously such a decision depends on how confident they are in the test software, and how much longer the real driver is expected to take, and how risky it is to find a flaw in this subsystem after say 1000 units have been sent out to customers. Quite a big responsibility. If I were in their shoes, I would be very tempted to wait for the driver. Even though the community is anxious to get the hardware, even if the software isn't finished. As others have said so eloquently, we are doing our best. We are far from perfect, but we are trying. My personal goal is to continue improving both the quantity and quality of information that I bring from the company to you. Regards, Michael andutt wrote: Hi Steven Thats no problem, i can be very patient. I think what the community want is just a date, when the device is planned to be shipped. /Andreas U On 10/24/07, *Steven *** [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Note that that is an estimated
Re: Exact release date of GTA02v4?
I'll admit I was one who grumbled in the past. My complaint was that there was good flow of information when things were on track (which was appreciated), but as soon as things slipped it was complete and utter silence (hence most of the angry emails, not the actual slippage). That said, posts like this are exactly what I wanted, and thank you very much for taking the time to respond. I can't speak for anyone but myself, but I would much prefer hearing SOMETHING (whether it be delays or not). I honestly don't get that hung up on targeted release dates that much...I would just like to know about the overall progress (exactly like your email addressed). However, I did grumble and still think it is/was bad business practices when they posted release dates, missed them (which is fine) BUT DID NOT SAY ANYTHING. So again, thanks Michael. We (or at least I) very much appreciate this type of information. It doesn't have to come that often, but a quick blurb like this will go a LONG way in reducing the grumbling about lack of information. -Jonathon ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Exact release date of GTA02v4?
Hi Steven Thats no problem, i can be very patient. I think what the community want is just a date, when the device is planned to be shipped. /Andreas U On 10/24/07, Steven ** [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Note that that is an estimated timeline created by a community member. Don't take those dates as gospel and then get upset if they're missed. We all want the GTA02 ASAP. But we also want the hardware to be in perfect working order. If it's rushed, there's a much larger chance of issues being found after it's been delivered. We don't want that. So, let's all just be a little patient here. -Steven On 10/24/07, Andreas Utterberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanx... Thats the post i have been waiting on /Andreas On 10/24/07, Mark [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Since no one else has seen fit to make an appropriate post, I'm pasting this from the one place on the site that has some information: Estimated time line * Sep 20 - GTA02v3 design finalized. * Sep 25 - GTA02v3 serious flaw found, GTA02v4 needed. * Oct 15 - GTA02v4 design finalized. * Oct 30 - GTA02v4 design produced, and shipped to qualified developers. * Nov 20 - GTA02v4 design verified through testing by developers. * Dec 10 - GTA02v4 produced in moderate volume * Dec 20 - GTA02v4 goes on sale * Dec 25 - GTA02v4 arrives. See Santa's Sleigh Package Service. However, I suggest everyone take this with a grain of salt and not expect anything until well after the New Year. Wolfmane ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- Andreas Utterberg Thundera AB ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Exact release date of GTA02v4?
On Thursday 25 October 2007, andutt wrote: Hi Steven Thats no problem, i can be very patient. I think what the community want is just a date, when the device is planned to be shipped. The problem with that is that a company feels pressurised to release something that can't meet the expectations that were planned. Most businesses are rather quiet about planned releases. That is not without reason. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Exact release date of GTA02v4?
Hello Andreas, and everyone else, Andreas writes: Thats no problem, i can be very patient. I think what the community want is just a date, when the device is planned to be shipped. Many years ago, I had a running joke with a co-worker. Every time someone said just we would role our eyes at each other and repeat the sentence, emphasizing the word just. As others here have explained, we are involving the community in the process of designing, manufacturing, and distributing in a way that is simply not done. We are experimenting and learning as we go along. There are no models for this sort of project, no experts to turn to to ask how is this done. It seems so simple, but in fact it is extremely complicated. If you look at the history of this mailing list, you will see that Sean, Harald, and others started off being very generous with their information, and then having to spend a tremendous amount of energy calming angry readers when deadlines were missed. As you continue to study the history of this mailing list, you will notice an increasing level of frustration in all parties. This is one reason I was brought in. Having come from the community, I hopefully represent the community well, but now in the company, I hopefully can balance being in both worlds. My goal is not to get as frustrated as Sean or Harald or the others who have gone before me. Perhaps since I'm in the middle, I'm supposed to get half as frustrated :-) In fact this is very complicated. Since everyone in OpenMoko knows that I am the channel to the community, I suspect there is a certain reluctance to being completely open with me. Believe me, I have as hard a time getting updates from OpenMoko people as you have getting it from me. (Again, since I'm in the middle, perhaps this is exactly as it should be.) On the other hand, the community knows that I know more than they do, and don't understand why I can't share all this information. So to answer your question, Andreas: We can not give the community the date for when the device is planned to ship, because we do not have such a date. What we have is a plan that gets increasingly vague as it moves into the future. What I know for sure: We, and Harald in particular, are quite happy with GTA02v3. GTA02v4 has been made and should be showing up on Harald's desk any day now. True, I said this a couple of days ago, and I have not yet received any confirmation that the device has shown up on his desk, so I must presume it has not yet. Once GTA02v4 shows up on Harald's desk, there will follow a period of very careful inspection and testing. Only when there is a high level of confidence will we move forward. How long will this take? We don't know. It depends on what we find. For example, remember that the drivers aren't all finished. This means that the testing will sometimes be delayed pending drivers, and other times will be tested with test software that (we hope) is very similar to the drivers, but whether it is sufficiently similar we won't know until the driver is finished. So someone might need to make the decision of whether to approve of the subsystem under test after having been verified by the test software, or whether to wait for the driver itself. Obviously such a decision depends on how confident they are in the test software, and how much longer the real driver is expected to take, and how risky it is to find a flaw in this subsystem after say 1000 units have been sent out to customers. Quite a big responsibility. If I were in their shoes, I would be very tempted to wait for the driver. Even though the community is anxious to get the hardware, even if the software isn't finished. As others have said so eloquently, we are doing our best. We are far from perfect, but we are trying. My personal goal is to continue improving both the quantity and quality of information that I bring from the company to you. Regards, Michael andutt wrote: Hi Steven Thats no problem, i can be very patient. I think what the community want is just a date, when the device is planned to be shipped. /Andreas U On 10/24/07, *Steven *** [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Note that that is an estimated timeline created by a community member. Don't take those dates as gospel and then get upset if they're missed. We all want the GTA02 ASAP. But we also want the hardware to be in perfect working order. If it's rushed, there's a much larger chance of issues being found after it's been delivered. We don't want that. So, let's all just be a little patient here. -Steven On 10/24/07, *Andreas Utterberg* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanx... Thats the post i have been waiting on /Andreas On 10/24/07, *Mark* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Since no one else has seen fit to make
Re: Exact release date of GTA02v4?
On Thursday 25 October 2007 22:07:52 Michael Shiloh wrote: As others have said so eloquently, we are doing our best. We are far from perfect, but we are trying. My personal goal is to continue improving both the quantity and quality of information that I bring from the company to you. This is a (nearly) perfect explanation of what's going on. Store it some place safe, you'll need it again. If not with GTA02 revision then surely with GTA03! signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Exact release date of GTA02v4?
Thanx... Thats the post i have been waiting on /Andreas On 10/24/07, Mark [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Since no one else has seen fit to make an appropriate post, I'm pasting this from the one place on the site that has some information: Estimated time line * Sep 20 - GTA02v3 design finalized. * Sep 25 - GTA02v3 serious flaw found, GTA02v4 needed. * Oct 15 - GTA02v4 design finalized. * Oct 30 - GTA02v4 design produced, and shipped to qualified developers. * Nov 20 - GTA02v4 design verified through testing by developers. * Dec 10 - GTA02v4 produced in moderate volume * Dec 20 - GTA02v4 goes on sale * Dec 25 - GTA02v4 arrives. See Santa's Sleigh Package Service. However, I suggest everyone take this with a grain of salt and not expect anything until well after the New Year. Wolfmane ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- Andreas Utterberg Thundera AB ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Exact release date of GTA02v4?
Note that that is an estimated timeline created by a community member. Don't take those dates as gospel and then get upset if they're missed. We all want the GTA02 ASAP. But we also want the hardware to be in perfect working order. If it's rushed, there's a much larger chance of issues being found after it's been delivered. We don't want that. So, let's all just be a little patient here. -Steven On 10/24/07, Andreas Utterberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanx... Thats the post i have been waiting on /Andreas On 10/24/07, Mark [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Since no one else has seen fit to make an appropriate post, I'm pasting this from the one place on the site that has some information: Estimated time line * Sep 20 - GTA02v3 design finalized. * Sep 25 - GTA02v3 serious flaw found, GTA02v4 needed. * Oct 15 - GTA02v4 design finalized. * Oct 30 - GTA02v4 design produced, and shipped to qualified developers. * Nov 20 - GTA02v4 design verified through testing by developers. * Dec 10 - GTA02v4 produced in moderate volume * Dec 20 - GTA02v4 goes on sale * Dec 25 - GTA02v4 arrives. See Santa's Sleigh Package Service. However, I suggest everyone take this with a grain of salt and not expect anything until well after the New Year. Wolfmane ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- Andreas Utterberg Thundera AB ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Exact release date of GTA02v4?
Since no one else has seen fit to make an appropriate post, I'm pasting this from the one place on the site that has some information: Estimated time line * Sep 20 - GTA02v3 design finalized. * Sep 25 - GTA02v3 serious flaw found, GTA02v4 needed. * Oct 15 - GTA02v4 design finalized. * Oct 30 - GTA02v4 design produced, and shipped to qualified developers. * Nov 20 - GTA02v4 design verified through testing by developers. * Dec 10 - GTA02v4 produced in moderate volume * Dec 20 - GTA02v4 goes on sale * Dec 25 - GTA02v4 arrives. See Santa's Sleigh Package Service. However, I suggest everyone take this with a grain of salt and not expect anything until well after the New Year. Wolfmane ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
