Re: How to use other applications with Paroli fullscreen?
On Sun, Mar 8, 2009 at 7:40 PM, digger vermont dv_ml...@verizon.net wrote: No you aren't missing anything. Our goal is to provide a distribution that allows the user to use the gta02 as a daily phone. In order to achieve this faster we decided to make certain sacrifices to save time and energy, as our team is only small. One of these was worrying too much about integrating in illume. I agree with this sentiment - we need a distribution that allows the gta02 to be a drop-in replacement for a regular phone if we are to see more adoption of Free Software based Openmoko phones. And, yes, the Openmoko has many capabilities beyond what Paroli current offers but this need not be a permanent state of affairs. Besides, a simple user interface is a real asset these days when most other phones have an overwhelming amount of features. Mirko, thanks for your reply. However like Scott Petersen, I unfortunately feel the need to rant. I find the decision frustrating. I guess I don't see why Illume and Paroli are at such odds. With Paroli's current direction it seems to mean that if I want to help develop Paroli, as it is meant to be used, I must give up using the FreeRunner for anything else. By isolating Paroli in that way it may have the effect of even more fragmentation of community resources and less people joining in on its development. I'll tell you, it makes me feel less enthusiastic. That is the beauty of the FSO way of doing things - those that want all the bells and whistles can run SHR, Debian or Gentoo on top of FSO and those that want a simple user interface can run Paroli (again, on the FSO platform). Regards, Fred. My desire is to be developing on the FreeRunner. Paroli seems like a good way to go. I enjoy working with Python, Edje, and now learning Elementary. To that end I have been experimenting with Paroli toward the goal of integrating FSO Control[0] into it. Unfortunately the time when I can do that is sporadic and, due to those constraints, I can't just plain say, Yes I will be helping with Paroli. So my frustration is also that I can't commit my own support to any large degree in an effort to steer Paroli's direction. digger [0]There is a new release, version 0.2.0, at https://projects.openmoko.org/frs/?group_id=225 I've had problems with opkg.org and haven't had time to make a proper announcement. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: How to use other applications with Paroli fullscreen?
I find the decision frustrating. I guess I don't see why Illume and Paroli are at such odds. With Paroli's current direction it seems to mean that if I want to help develop Paroli, as it is meant to be used, I must give up using the FreeRunner for anything else. By isolating Paroli in that way it may have the effect of even more fragmentation of community resources and less people joining in on its development. I'll tell you, it makes me feel less enthusiastic. That is the beauty of the FSO way of doing things - those that want all the bells and whistles can run SHR, Debian or Gentoo on top of FSO and those that want a simple user interface can run Paroli (again, on the FSO platform). To slightly correct myself - People can run Illume and FSO on Debian or Gentoo rather than the other way around as my previous sentence implied. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: How to use other applications with Paroli fullscreen?
To be honest, my heart fell when I read the very beginning of the Paroli website: In a few words one could say: paroli is a new approach to application development on the openmoko phones. My reaction to that? Good grief, that's exactly what we DON'T need. In other words, a new approach is exactly what we don't need - and especially a new approach that shuts out all previous approaches. Indeed. I was also very sceptical when first reading about FSO - as in we will make a new framework for mobile computing in linux that will run on all devices ... however, for FSO they seem to have pulled it off. Somehow. For Paroli I am yet to be convinced that they have not falled prey to: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inner-platform_effect To make a constructive suggestion: I wonder what the official Openmoko view is of SHR Testing? I think it's pretty good, so SHR-Testing uses Zhone? Cheers, -- Gunnar Aastrand Grimnes gunnar.grimnes [AT] dfki.de DFKI GmbH Knowledge Management Trippstadter Strasse 122 D-67663 Kaiserslautern Germany Office: +49 631 205 75-117 Mobile: +49 177 277 4397 ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: How to use other applications with Paroli fullscreen?
On Mon, Mar 9, 2009 at 11:36, Gunnar Aastrand Grimnes gunnar.grim...@dfki.de wrote: SHR-Testing uses Zhone? What? SHR is using ophonekitd and libframeworkd-phonegui-efl. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: How to use other applications with Paroli fullscreen?
I didn't know - Thanks! Johny Tenfinger wrote: On Mon, Mar 9, 2009 at 11:36, Gunnar Aastrand Grimnes gunnar.grim...@dfki.de wrote: SHR-Testing uses Zhone? What? SHR is using ophonekitd and libframeworkd-phonegui-efl. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- Gunnar Aastrand Grimnes gunnar.grimnes [AT] dfki.de DFKI GmbH Knowledge Management Trippstadter Strasse 122 D-67663 Kaiserslautern Germany Office: +49 631 205 75-117 Mobile: +49 177 277 4397 ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: How to use other applications with Paroli fullscreen?
On Fri, 2009-03-06 at 23:12 -0500, Mirko Lindner wrote: Hi, I've been tracking OM unstable. Now that Paroli is starting at boot with a full-screen I can't figure out how to start any other applications outside of using ssh. Then once started the application doesn't have the Illume top-bar available to do any of the functions it provided such as application switching or ending the program. I tried killing paroli-launcher. That left me with a black-screen. Is there something I'm missing? No you aren't missing anything. Our goal is to provide a distribution that allows the user to use the gta02 as a daily phone. In order to achieve this faster we decided to make certain sacrifices to save time and energy, as our team is only small. One of these was worrying too much about integrating in illume. To put it in one sentence: for Now the paroli image comes with these styles installed. We hope we can change that in the future. There is a way of reactivating the old style, I will try to compile a document and publish it here. /mirko Mirko, thanks for your reply. However like Scott Petersen, I unfortunately feel the need to rant. I find the decision frustrating. I guess I don't see why Illume and Paroli are at such odds. With Paroli's current direction it seems to mean that if I want to help develop Paroli, as it is meant to be used, I must give up using the FreeRunner for anything else. By isolating Paroli in that way it may have the effect of even more fragmentation of community resources and less people joining in on its development. I'll tell you, it makes me feel less enthusiastic. My desire is to be developing on the FreeRunner. Paroli seems like a good way to go. I enjoy working with Python, Edje, and now learning Elementary. To that end I have been experimenting with Paroli toward the goal of integrating FSO Control[0] into it. Unfortunately the time when I can do that is sporadic and, due to those constraints, I can't just plain say, Yes I will be helping with Paroli. So my frustration is also that I can't commit my own support to any large degree in an effort to steer Paroli's direction. digger [0]There is a new release, version 0.2.0, at https://projects.openmoko.org/frs/?group_id=225 I've had problems with opkg.org and haven't had time to make a proper announcement. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: How to use other applications with Paroli fullscreen?
On Sat, 2009-03-07 at 11:04 -0800, Scott Petersen wrote: Mirko Lindner wrote: Hi, I've been tracking OM unstable. Now that Paroli is starting at boot with a full-screen I can't figure out how to start any other applications outside of using ssh. Then once started the application doesn't have the Illume top-bar available to do any of the functions it provided such as application switching or ending the program. I tried killing paroli-launcher. That left me with a black-screen. ... To put it in one sentence: for Now the paroli image comes with these styles installed. We hope we can change that in the future. There is a way of reactivating the old style, I will try to compile a document and publish it here. /mirko I too have been tracking the unstable images and slowly digging in to the code to try and contribute. First the answer: You can get back to using illume by logging in with SSH and doing opkg remove paroli-autostart rm -rf /home/root/.e reboot Similarly, I flashed with fso-image-om-gta02.jffs2. I think the end result is about the same except for a reflash. Thanks for the suggestion. You should then get the illume launcher on next boot and be able to ... Second a bit of a rant: I have to say that I am extremely disappointed in this decision to prevent users from using the functionality of their phone. Why would anyone want to purchase a piece of hardware with as much promise as the freerunner and not be able to use it for anything but what a sub $50 dollar phone has been able to do for years? It just doesn't make sense to me when it seems so easy to shrink paroli down a little bit and use illume. I have wondered for some time about why Paroli was duplicating functionality from illume. (e.g. the Battery level) Now I understand and I am flabbergasted. Yes I do want stable phone functionality but not at the expense of all other functionality. Scott Petersen You've voiced close to my own sentiments. digger signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: How to use other applications with Paroli fullscreen?
digger vermont dv_ml...@verizon.net writes: I find the decision frustrating. I guess I don't see why Illume and Paroli are at such odds. With Paroli's current direction it seems to mean that if I want to help develop Paroli, as it is meant to be used, I must give up using the FreeRunner for anything else. By isolating Paroli in that way it may have the effect of even more fragmentation of community resources and less people joining in on its development. I'll tell you, it makes me feel less enthusiastic. I agree. I haven't commented on this before, because I didn't want to be purely negative; but if others are feeling the same way, perhaps it's worth adding my voice. To be honest, my heart fell when I read the very beginning of the Paroli website: In a few words one could say: paroli is a new approach to application development on the openmoko phones. My reaction to that? Good grief, that's exactly what we DON'T need. In other words, a new approach is exactly what we don't need - and especially a new approach that shuts out all previous approaches. What we need, in my opinion, is the hard work - in terms of QA, usability, and bugfixing - of polishing what is already out there; not reinventing the wheel again from scratch. Frankly, anyone can start a new approach; that's easy. The hard part is finally getting to an actual product. To make a constructive suggestion: I wonder what the official Openmoko view is of SHR Testing? I think it's pretty good, so - why not help to polish that? - if not, what _precise_ reasons do OM have for believing that the Paroli route will produce (in the near future) something better than SHR? Regards, Neil ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: How to use other applications with Paroli fullscreen?
To make a constructive suggestion: I wonder what the official Openmoko view is of SHR Testing? I think it's pretty good, so - why not help to polish that? - if not, what _precise_ reasons do OM have for believing that the Paroli route will produce (in the near future) something better than SHR? I'm glad Openmoko is away from SHR - their designers has very strange ideas and points of view... If you don't know about what I'm talking - ask raster ;) ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
The Wrench story, anyone? (was: Re: How to use other applications with Paroli fullscreen?)
Mirko Lindner mi...@openmoko.com writes: for Now the paroli image comes with these styles installed. We hope we can change that in the future. There is a way of reactivating the old style, I will try to compile a document and publish it here. -- Be free, use free (http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html) software! mailto:fercer...@gmail.com ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
How to use other applications with Paroli fullscreen?
Hello, I've been tracking OM unstable. Now that Paroli is starting at boot with a full-screen I can't figure out how to start any other applications outside of using ssh. Then once started the application doesn't have the Illume top-bar available to do any of the functions it provided such as application switching or ending the program. I tried killing paroli-launcher. That left me with a black-screen. Is there something I'm missing? Thanks digger signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: How to use other applications with Paroli fullscreen?
Hi, I've been tracking OM unstable. Now that Paroli is starting at boot with a full-screen I can't figure out how to start any other applications outside of using ssh. Then once started the application doesn't have the Illume top-bar available to do any of the functions it provided such as application switching or ending the program. I tried killing paroli-launcher. That left me with a black-screen. Is there something I'm missing? No you aren't missing anything. Our goal is to provide a distribution that allows the user to use the gta02 as a daily phone. In order to achieve this faster we decided to make certain sacrifices to save time and energy, as our team is only small. One of these was worrying too much about integrating in illume. To put it in one sentence: for Now the paroli image comes with these styles installed. We hope we can change that in the future. There is a way of reactivating the old style, I will try to compile a document and publish it here. /mirko ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
