Re: RESEND(Wrong Thread): IMAGE/MP3 licensing issue.
Tim, The only threat a patent troll understands is a well funded group of researchers and lawyers ready and willing to spend millions of dollars and years of effort to invalidate their prized patent. Fortunately, such things _do_ exist. I suggest OpenMoko search for, and solicit help from any they may find. Let me link back to one of my Weekly Engineering News (back when they were still weekly, ahem - I am working hard to get this good discipline back!) http://lists.openmoko.org/nabble.html#nabble-td837114 We looked at several options, OIN, patent-commons, peertopatent. In the end we decided to collaborate with the Software Freedom Law Center in New York. We believe this is most in line with the goals of the Openmoko project, and will have the best long-term results. I cannot speak about details yet, the SFLC and Sean are working on this. I think next year, with regards to patents the results from that will be one of the more important developments for Openmoko and maybe even the larger Free Software scene. Best Regards, Wolfgang On Nov 14, 2008, at 4:42 AM, Tim Schmidt wrote: On Thu, Nov 13, 2008 at 3:25 PM, Chris Samuel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'd still rather a format that didn't risk (as much as anyone can know these days) such lawsuits in the first place.. _All_ software risks such lawsuits. Software patents are so over-broad, vaguely worded, impenetrably incomprehensible to normal folk, and numerous that _no significant work is safe._ _Of course_ we should prefer the Ogg formats - especially with companies like Sisvel running around - but to believe they are unassailable by patent trolls, or somehow more safe than other software is delusional. A well stocked portfolio of patents is no thread to a troll - they sell no products vulnerable to injunctions. The only threat a patent troll understands is a well funded group of researchers and lawyers ready and willing to spend millions of dollars and years of effort to invalidate their prized patent. Fortunately, such things _do_ exist. I suggest OpenMoko search for, and solicit help from any they may find. --tim ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: RESEND(Wrong Thread): IMAGE/MP3 licensing issue.
On Fri, Nov 14, 2008 at 4:38 AM, Wolfgang Spraul [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Let me link back to one of my Weekly Engineering News (back when they were still weekly, ahem - I am working hard to get this good discipline back!) http://lists.openmoko.org/nabble.html#nabble-td837114 We looked at several options, OIN, patent-commons, peertopatent. In the end we decided to collaborate with the Software Freedom Law Center in New York. We believe this is most in line with the goals of the Openmoko project, and will have the best long-term results. I cannot speak about details yet, the SFLC and Sean are working on this. I think next year, with regards to patents the results from that will be one of the more important developments for Openmoko and maybe even the larger Free Software scene. Excellent. I'd missed that. Thank you very much for pointing it out! :D --tim ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: RESEND(Wrong Thread): IMAGE/MP3 licensing issue.
- Tim Schmidt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In fact... if OpenMoko could make as much information available as possible about how much this has cost them - in lost productivity, lawyers fees, etc. - I'm sure it would help to galvanize more action among the community. FWIW as this was publicly announced and archived I submitted it as a Groklaw NewsPick (who knows, maybe PJ will pick it up as a main article) and blogged about it. I'll also pass it onto an open source friendly journalist friend of mine. Every little helps.. -- Chris Samuel : http://www.csamuel.org/ : Melbourne, VIC ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: RESEND(Wrong Thread): IMAGE/MP3 licensing issue.
It's worth bearing in mind that Alcatel appear to own patents on MP3 too as they recently got US$1.5 billion in damages from Microsoft for infringement of them.. http://ipgeek.blogspot.com/2007/02/you-thought-paying-sisvel-ended-your.html The top google hit ( its over a year old) isn't always the best: http://news.cnet.com/8301-10805_3-10051243-75.html MS won the appeal on that case. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: RESEND(Wrong Thread): IMAGE/MP3 licensing issue.
- Steven Kurylo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The top google hit ( its over a year old) isn't always the best: http://news.cnet.com/8301-10805_3-10051243-75.html MS won the appeal on that case. That's pretty good news! I'd still rather a format that didn't risk (as much as anyone can know these days) such lawsuits in the first place.. -- Chris Samuel : http://www.csamuel.org/ : Melbourne, VIC ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: RESEND(Wrong Thread): IMAGE/MP3 licensing issue.
On Thu, Nov 13, 2008 at 3:25 PM, Chris Samuel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'd still rather a format that didn't risk (as much as anyone can know these days) such lawsuits in the first place.. _All_ software risks such lawsuits. Software patents are so over-broad, vaguely worded, impenetrably incomprehensible to normal folk, and numerous that _no significant work is safe._ _Of course_ we should prefer the Ogg formats - especially with companies like Sisvel running around - but to believe they are unassailable by patent trolls, or somehow more safe than other software is delusional. A well stocked portfolio of patents is no thread to a troll - they sell no products vulnerable to injunctions. The only threat a patent troll understands is a well funded group of researchers and lawyers ready and willing to spend millions of dollars and years of effort to invalidate their prized patent. Fortunately, such things _do_ exist. I suggest OpenMoko search for, and solicit help from any they may find. --tim ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: RESEND(Wrong Thread): IMAGE/MP3 licensing issue.
- Tim Schmidt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: _Of course_ we should prefer the Ogg formats - especially with companies like Sisvel running around - but to believe they are unassailable by patent trolls, or somehow more safe than other software is delusional. That's why I said as much as anyone can know these days. I have no illusions about submarine patents, etc.. Agree wholeheartedly on the response! -- Chris Samuel : http://www.csamuel.org/ : Melbourne, VIC ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: RESEND(Wrong Thread): IMAGE/MP3 licensing issue.
On Thu, Nov 13, 2008 at 3:50 PM, Chris Samuel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That's why I said as much as anyone can know these days. It just can't be repeated enough. Many people still don't understand cost - to the community as well as companies - of the ongoing situation of software patents. In fact... if OpenMoko could make as much information available as possible about how much this has cost them - in lost productivity, lawyers fees, etc. - I'm sure it would help to galvanize more action among the community. We all know software patents are bad, but few of us feel as though we are affected by them on a regular basis. Show people they _are_ affected, and I think they will respond. Who knows... maybe you'll even sell some more phones :) --tim ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
IMAGE/MP3 licensing issue.
Dear Community; We are sorry that currently we have to remove all the images on the download server of Openmoko. http://downloads.openmoko.org/release/ We will make another stable release as soon as possible. At the mean time, we could rebuild those old releases without mp2/mp3. However, this might not stable due to the missing packages and we have no capability to test them all. So, ladies and gentlemen, please let us know, if you want these old and unstable images or any other ideas. Any feedback are welcome, and please, let us know what you think on this one. Ray Chao Openmoko System Admim ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RESEND(Wrong Thread): IMAGE/MP3 licensing issue.
Dear Community; We are sorry that currently we have to remove all the images on the download server of Openmoko. http://downloads.openmoko.org/release/ We will make another stable release as soon as possible. At the mean time, we could rebuild those old releases without mp2/mp3. However, this might not stable due to the missing packages and we have no capability to test them all. So, ladies and gentlemen, please let us know, if you want these old and unstable images or any other ideas. Any feedback are welcome, and please, let us know what you think on this one. Ray Chao Openmoko System Admim ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: IMAGE/MP3 licensing issue.
On Wed, Nov 12, 2008 at 08:07:21PM +0800, Ray Chao wrote: Dear Community; We are sorry that currently we have to remove all the images on the download server of Openmoko. http://downloads.openmoko.org/release/ We will make another stable release as soon as possible. At the mean time, we could rebuild those old releases without mp2/mp3. However, this might not stable due to the missing packages and we have no capability to test them all. So, ladies and gentlemen, please let us know, if you want these old and unstable images or any other ideas. Any feedback are welcome, and please, let us know what you think on this one. And who says software patents don't ruin user's experience with Free Software All idiots raise their hands :) Rui -- Hail Eris, Hack GNU/Linux! Today is Sweetmorn, the 24th day of The Aftermath in the YOLD 3174 + No matter how much you do, you never do enough -- unknown + Whatever you do will be insignificant, | but it is very important that you do it -- Gandhi + So let's do it...? ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: RESEND(Wrong Thread): IMAGE/MP3 licensing issue.
On Wed, Nov 12, 2008 at 01:23:19PM +, Thomas White wrote: On Wed, 12 Nov 2008 20:15:44 +0800 Ray Chao [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: We are sorry that currently we have to remove all the images on the download server of Openmoko. http://downloads.openmoko.org/release/ Erk... are you able to give any more details about the exact reasons? He did: Subject: RESEND(Wrong Thread): IMAGE/MP3 licensing issue. (...) We will make another stable release as soon as possible. At the mean time, we could rebuild those old releases without mp2/mp3. However, (...) I can give you the rest: http://mp3licensing.com/royalty/software.html http://stopsoftwarepatents.eu/ RUi -- Or not. Today is Sweetmorn, the 24th day of The Aftermath in the YOLD 3174 + No matter how much you do, you never do enough -- unknown + Whatever you do will be insignificant, | but it is very important that you do it -- Gandhi + So let's do it...? ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: RESEND(Wrong Thread): IMAGE/MP3 licensing issue.
On Wed, Nov 12, 2008 at 01:55:35PM +, Sam Kuper wrote: http://mp3licensing.com/royalty/software.html http://stopsoftwarepatents.eu/ I understand the MP3 patent issue reasonably well, but couldn't OM use LAME?[1] Same problem. all praise software patents, let them die a painful death. Rui -- Wibble. Today is Sweetmorn, the 24th day of The Aftermath in the YOLD 3174 + No matter how much you do, you never do enough -- unknown + Whatever you do will be insignificant, | but it is very important that you do it -- Gandhi + So let's do it...? ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: RESEND(Wrong Thread): IMAGE/MP3 licensing issue.
Am 12.11.2008 um 14:55 schrieb Sam Kuper: I understand the MP3 patent issue reasonably well, but couldn't OM use LAME?[1] Users could be asked to compile the software themselves (providing it wasn't made terribly difficult), if that's an issue... Or have I missed the point? (Obviously, Vorbis and FLAC are preferable to MP3, but for those people - and I'm sure there are lots of them - who have MP3-encoded media, a decoder is still needed, even if only to transcode to a freer format.) Sure, users or at least one user can do bitbake gst-plugins-ugly and share the result. This will bring mp3 support back. However it looks like Openmoko can not distribute it, furthermore it seems like even options like Fluendo's MP3 decoder plugin is not helping. Yes, users have the freedom to install the software and plugins they want, Openmoko can not distribute everything though. happy hacking z. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: RESEND(Wrong Thread): IMAGE/MP3 licensing issue.
Tom, Erk... are you able to give any more details about the exact reasons? The short story is that we are in a protracted battle with some patent trolls. Google for Sisvel. In order to get ourselves in a stronger position, we want to make sure no copies/instances/whatever of patent-infested technologies like MP2 and MP3 exist on our servers. Our phones never shipped with end-user MP3 playback features, but we want to use this opportunity to make sure it's not even in some remote place somewhere. For us the important thing is to defend the freedom of our users rather than cripple our phones so that certain things become 'impossible'. So please bear with us, while we go through this house cleaning effort. Best Regards, Wolfgang On Nov 12, 2008, at 9:23 PM, Thomas White wrote: On Wed, 12 Nov 2008 20:15:44 +0800 Ray Chao [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: We are sorry that currently we have to remove all the images on the download server of Openmoko. http://downloads.openmoko.org/release/ Erk... are you able to give any more details about the exact reasons? Tom -- Thomas White Department of Materials Science and Metallurgy Electron Microscopy Group (PhD Student) University of Cambridge / Downing College ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: RESEND(Wrong Thread): IMAGE/MP3 licensing issue.
On Wed, Nov 12, 2008 at 02:34:55PM +, Thomas White wrote: On Wed, 12 Nov 2008 13:45:12 + Rui Miguel Silva Seabra [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I can give you the rest: http://mp3licensing.com/royalty/software.html http://stopsoftwarepatents.eu/ Oh, I got that far. I'm curious to know what's changed in particular to prompt the sudden removal: has some kind of legal threat been made by someone? It seems we even got the name of the patent troll (see another mail in this thread), which is quite a lot more info than the usual in this cases. Frequently there's some secrecy about the case... Rui -- Pzat! Today is Sweetmorn, the 24th day of The Aftermath in the YOLD 3174 + No matter how much you do, you never do enough -- unknown + Whatever you do will be insignificant, | but it is very important that you do it -- Gandhi + So let's do it...? ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: IMAGE/MP3 licensing issue.
In-Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Very professional :-/ Ray Chao wrote: Dear Community; We are sorry that currently we have to remove all the images on the download server of Openmoko. http://downloads.openmoko.org/release/ We will make another stable release as soon as possible. At the mean time, we could rebuild those old releases without mp2/mp3. However, this might not stable due to the missing packages and we have no capability to test them all. So, ladies and gentlemen, please let us know, if you want these old and unstable images or any other ideas. Any feedback are welcome, and please, let us know what you think on this one. Ray Chao Openmoko System Admim ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- Drucken Sie diese Mail bitte nur auf Recyclingpapier aus. Please print this mail only on recycled paper. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: RESEND(Wrong Thread): IMAGE/MP3 licensing issue.
2008/11/12 Rui Miguel Silva Seabra [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Wed, Nov 12, 2008 at 01:23:19PM +, Thomas White wrote: On Wed, 12 Nov 2008 20:15:44 +0800 Ray Chao [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: We are sorry that currently we have to remove all the images on the download server of Openmoko. http://downloads.openmoko.org/release/ Erk... are you able to give any more details about the exact reasons? He did: Subject: RESEND(Wrong Thread): IMAGE/MP3 licensing issue. (...) We will make another stable release as soon as possible. At the mean time, we could rebuild those old releases without mp2/mp3. However, (...) I can give you the rest: http://mp3licensing.com/royalty/software.html http://stopsoftwarepatents.eu/ I understand the MP3 patent issue reasonably well, but couldn't OM use LAME?[1] Users could be asked to compile the software themselves (providing it wasn't made terribly difficult), if that's an issue... Or have I missed the point? (Obviously, Vorbis and FLAC are preferable to MP3, but for those people - and I'm sure there are lots of them - who have MP3-encoded media, a decoder is still needed, even if only to transcode to a freer format.) [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LAME ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: RESEND(Wrong Thread): IMAGE/MP3 licensing issue.
On Wed, 12 Nov 2008 13:45:12 + Rui Miguel Silva Seabra [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I can give you the rest: http://mp3licensing.com/royalty/software.html http://stopsoftwarepatents.eu/ Oh, I got that far. I'm curious to know what's changed in particular to prompt the sudden removal: has some kind of legal threat been made by someone? Tom -- Thomas White Department of Materials Science and Metallurgy Electron Microscopy Group (PhD Student) University of Cambridge / Downing College ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: RESEND(Wrong Thread): IMAGE/MP3 licensing issue.
On Wed, 12 Nov 2008 20:15:44 +0800 Ray Chao [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: We are sorry that currently we have to remove all the images on the download server of Openmoko. http://downloads.openmoko.org/release/ Erk... are you able to give any more details about the exact reasons? Tom -- Thomas White Department of Materials Science and Metallurgy Electron Microscopy Group (PhD Student) University of Cambridge / Downing College ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: IMAGE/MP3 licensing issue.
Oh, I'm really sorry. I read your mails in the wrong order. Pardon, no hard feelings please. ;) Tilman Baumann wrote: In-Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Very professional :-/ Ray Chao wrote: Dear Community; We are sorry that currently we have to remove all the images on the download server of Openmoko. http://downloads.openmoko.org/release/ We will make another stable release as soon as possible. At the mean time, we could rebuild those old releases without mp2/mp3. However, this might not stable due to the missing packages and we have no capability to test them all. So, ladies and gentlemen, please let us know, if you want these old and unstable images or any other ideas. Any feedback are welcome, and please, let us know what you think on this one. Ray Chao Openmoko System Admim ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- Drucken Sie diese Mail bitte nur auf Recyclingpapier aus. Please print this mail only on recycled paper. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: RESEND(Wrong Thread): IMAGE/MP3 licensing issue.
Hi list, Can you just provide the kernel? Because I have to flash FDOM but the testing kernel does not work with that. Levy 'Lewis' S. Google Talk! [EMAIL PROTECTED] ICQ 12913566 MSN [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
