Re: Lack of structured information
About all the discussion about documentation and searching them, what about using a knowledge management system ? If I do a search for 'api sleep' in the Openmoko wiki, I get 9 search results, If I search for 'api wakeup' I get 5 results. If I search for 'acpi' I get 3 results. All these seem not to bring up what I search for. Why ? I probably have searched with the wrong words. For me this may simply lack of knowledge if sysfs has any relation to the information about power management (especially where the device is currently powered from). But it may be related. With a knowledge system you would propably get a list of related keywords + short descriptions what is handled there. Then I do not need to read all the found articles to spot those who are really related to my search. So how about using a knowledge management system to link information semantically ? There is no need to put all the documentation in it, but each visitor who might found a relation not in the knowledge base system could add one linking in the article to the related content even it is not in the openmoko wiki. Each link may be weighted by a voting system thus it will increase the quality of the link - if that is possible with any knowledge management system. Lothar -- | Rapid Prototyping | XSLT Codegeneration | http://www.lollisoft.de Lothar Behrens Heinrich-Scheufelen-Platz 2 73252 Lenningen ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Lack of structured information
Hi all, Since several months I'm trying to do some constructive development on my FreeRunner, but unfortunately I find myself spending way more time on finding trivial information compared to the time spent on actual coding. I'm not looking for extensive manuals or generic linux info, just looking for minimalistic information which is specific to the FR. - e.g. sysfs is supposed to be an interface between kernelspace and userspace, so I would expect it to be documented for at least the basics. - lack of changelogs for downloads, including kernels, filesystem-images, srctarballs etc. When using a modern tracking system, changelogs do not present an additional effort, they are automatically generated from commit messages and are generated out-of-the-box and provide extremely valuable information to users / other developers. To give just one example: A simple question like 'is my FR running from battery, USB or wallcharger ?'. With the recent kernel changes, most of these seem to have changed, but where are these documented ? In order to find the answer, I had to check the kernel sourcecode, google, and do some trial error tests . And even now I'm not sure I have it 100% correct. what I found: in /sys/class/i2c-adapter/i2c-0/0-0073/pcf50633-mbc/ there is a power_supply:ac , power_supply:adapter and power_supply:usb usb is clear, but I'm still not sure I correctly understand the difference between 'adapter' and 'ac'. I would expect OpenMoko to at least document the different files/Attributes which are platform dependant, and a changelog to indicate important changes having impact on userland applications / interfaces as well as known bugs (like the current usb crashes XP bug). sorry for my rantings, but I would love to code contribute, not to spent hours looking for some basic information... Cheers, Filip. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Lack of structured information
Your points are good and you have defined a good area to pay atention sysfs ,but you have to consider that .28 kernels are not being adopted by any official Openmoko release yet, but start working on a wiki draft of 2.6.28 sysfs is a pretty good idea. 2009/2/24 Filip Onkelinx fi...@linux4.be: Hi all, Since several months I'm trying to do some constructive development on my FreeRunner, but unfortunately I find myself spending way more time on finding trivial information compared to the time spent on actual coding. I'm not looking for extensive manuals or generic linux info, just looking for minimalistic information which is specific to the FR. - e.g. sysfs is supposed to be an interface between kernelspace and userspace, so I would expect it to be documented for at least the basics. - lack of changelogs for downloads, including kernels, filesystem-images, srctarballs etc. When using a modern tracking system, changelogs do not present an additional effort, they are automatically generated from commit messages and are generated out-of-the-box and provide extremely valuable information to users / other developers. To give just one example: A simple question like 'is my FR running from battery, USB or wallcharger ?'. With the recent kernel changes, most of these seem to have changed, but where are these documented ? In order to find the answer, I had to check the kernel sourcecode, google, and do some trial error tests . And even now I'm not sure I have it 100% correct. what I found: in /sys/class/i2c-adapter/i2c-0/0-0073/pcf50633-mbc/ there is a power_supply:ac , power_supply:adapter and power_supply:usb usb is clear, but I'm still not sure I correctly understand the difference between 'adapter' and 'ac'. I would expect OpenMoko to at least document the different files/Attributes which are platform dependant, and a changelog to indicate important changes having impact on userland applications / interfaces as well as known bugs (like the current usb crashes XP bug). sorry for my rantings, but I would love to code contribute, not to spent hours looking for some basic information... Cheers, Filip. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- David Reyes Samblas Martinez http://www.tuxbrain.com Open ultraportable embedded solutions Openmoko, Openpandora, GP2X the Wiz, Letux 400, Arduino Hey, watch out!!! There's a linux in your pocket!!! ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Lack of structured information
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Somebody in the thread at some point said: | Your points are good and you have defined a good area to pay atention | sysfs ,but you have to consider that .28 kernels are not being adopted | by any official Openmoko release yet, but start working on a wiki | draft of 2.6.28 sysfs is a pretty good idea. For 2.6.24 kernels I started this page and it has been added to by others: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GTA02_sysfs so there's a good deal of structured information there specific to sysfs. You can find it by just searching sysfs in the Wiki. Stuff changed along with suspend - resume fixed and driver rewrites in the last couple of kernel versions. I posted a mapping for 2.6.28 here http://lists.openmoko.org/nabble.html#nabble-td1569863 Some of these are changing slightly as we go on. So we will update the sysfs wiki page with the new ones soon. But, you shouldn't take that there is no documentation about sysfs, all the important guys are on that page. - -Andy -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkmkl5kACgkQOjLpvpq7dMrnzwCgh3NRT1QDgpMu+W0BSzQBVZYC azcAni18kPsQdv4fGEKkSmX/ZvwsvDUm =hnJR -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Lack of structured information
More over, the idea of the FSO odeviced API is that you no longer need to worry about sysfs paths anyways. If there's something you are missing, toss us a mail to smartphones-standa...@linuxtogo.org :M: ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Lack of structured information
On Wed, Feb 25, 2009 at 9:10 AM, Michael 'Mickey' Lauer mic...@openmoko.org wrote: More over, the idea of the FSO odeviced API is that you no longer need to worry about sysfs paths anyways. If there's something you are missing, toss us a mail to smartphones-standa...@linuxtogo.org We just documented this fact here: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Kernel#Sysfs_paths Thanks :-) ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Lack of structured information
Hi , Andy, thanks for pointing me in to the mailing list archive. I've updated the wiki page to include that info and a reference to your post. That's part of the info I was looking for, it might be a good idea to always copypaste that kind of information into the wiki, or just provide a link to it in the future. (not to blame you at all, but unfortunately the word sysfs was not mentioned in it, else I would probably have found it earlier when searching the archives) I really appreciate the efforts made by all of you, but to me, an outdated page is worse than no doc. And I also remember how a lot of people complained/ranted because there is/was no glamo doc available, just want to prevent happening this again for things which are under OM's control and possible to document And I'm ocnvinced that with very little (or virtual no) additional effort (like auto-generated changelogs) the existing information can be made more accessible to all people trying to contribute. I also understand that .28 is not yet adopted by any official distro, but if I was just trying to use any of the official distro's I probably wouldn't need this info. I'm trying to roll my own stuff (one of those is debian based, .28 kernel and QtExtended on top, but possibility to switch to X and back to QtE ; another one is application specific/vertical market). thanks again for all the efforts, and keep up the good work. cheers, Filip. On Wed, 25 Feb 2009 01:58:01 +0100, Andy Green a...@openmoko.com wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Somebody in the thread at some point said: | Your points are good and you have defined a good area to pay atention | sysfs ,but you have to consider that .28 kernels are not being adopted | by any official Openmoko release yet, but start working on a wiki | draft of 2.6.28 sysfs is a pretty good idea. For 2.6.24 kernels I started this page and it has been added to by others: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GTA02_sysfs so there's a good deal of structured information there specific to sysfs. You can find it by just searching sysfs in the Wiki. Stuff changed along with suspend - resume fixed and driver rewrites in the last couple of kernel versions. I posted a mapping for 2.6.28 here http://lists.openmoko.org/nabble.html#nabble-td1569863 Some of these are changing slightly as we go on. So we will update the sysfs wiki page with the new ones soon. But, you shouldn't take that there is no documentation about sysfs, all the important guys are on that page. - -Andy -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkmkl5kACgkQOjLpvpq7dMrnzwCgh3NRT1QDgpMu+W0BSzQBVZYC azcAni18kPsQdv4fGEKkSmX/ZvwsvDUm =hnJR -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Lack of structured information
Wow nelson, thaks a lot for the effort. Michael, Andy please don't missunderstand me , surely was a fault of expression for my part, I know FSO is doing an API to avoid the need to access directly to the kernel and offer even more high level control to Neo Hardware, I'm a great fan of FSO, but sometimes you are in non FSO distro or don't want to deal with the full because you are using only a dedicatec app with a light custom linux for exemple to use the neo for embedded appliance. And Andy I had not pretend to say there is no documentation I just say that maybe somethings has not yet included in the existing one, and just searching for what nelson has done, I already know this is temp and 2.6.28 kernel is on ative development and things can change, but until an official/stable kernel is released tho elaborate a definitive sysfs this is a great improvement 2009/2/25 Nelson Castillo nelson...@gmail.com: On Wed, Feb 25, 2009 at 9:10 AM, Michael 'Mickey' Lauer mic...@openmoko.org wrote: More over, the idea of the FSO odeviced API is that you no longer need to worry about sysfs paths anyways. If there's something you are missing, toss us a mail to smartphones-standa...@linuxtogo.org We just documented this fact here: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Kernel#Sysfs_paths Thanks :-) ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- David Reyes Samblas Martinez http://www.tuxbrain.com Open ultraportable embedded solutions Openmoko, Openpandora, GP2X the Wiz, Letux 400, Arduino Hey, watch out!!! There's a linux in your pocket!!! ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
