Re: Open Moko - GPL?
On 12/1/06 7:45 AM, Jeff Andros [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So does this mean that a standard SIM card won't work? Is it one of those things where you have to cut up your sim card (wonder what do I tell cingular when I bring THAT in)? or are we just talking about some kind of combo system on the bus? Hehe...if I made it so I standard SIM didn't work in this phone, I should be publicly hanged. Don't worry, your Cingular SIM will work fine ;-) -Sean ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Open Moko - GPL?
On 11/29/06, Sean Moss-Pultz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: We're still deciding on how open we can be with the hardware. Please keep in mind this is a legal mine field. Every single component we use (expert perhaps the CPU) needs an NDA just to read the datasheet. I would love to see open hardware. But this is _far_ more difficult that open software. ...we're working on it though. As a non-hardware engineer I have been facinated by www.opencores.org. Can you say if you have looked at using their modules? /Ole (Who would go for version 1 if there is a trade-up option. Otherwise wait for version 2). ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Open Moko - GPL?
On 11/28/06 7:55 AM, Robert Michel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And I hope that you will not unsubscribe, as well, I proise to write more focused in the future ;) I for one, find your emails quite entertaining. Stuffed full of things that make us think. Please keep up the good work ;-) -Sean ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: no bottle opener Re: Open Moko - GPL?
On 11/28/06 7:31 AM, Robert Michel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - no bottle opener What!? It's a pitty the Neo1973 will not have a case a frame made by strong, but light magnesium alloy, with integrated, fold-out bottle opener to open the beer. Since years I'm waiting for a mobile with that... Which real men needs a camera or bluetooth ? This is absolutely hilarious ;-) Why not really, if these guys have one: http://www.liquorsnob.com/archives/2005/09/reef_bottle_opener_sandals.php Why can't a phone? -Sean ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Open Moko - GPL?
On 11/29/06, Sean Moss-Pultz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 11/29/06 9:18 PM, Ole Tange [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: /Ole (Who would go for version 1 if there is a trade-up option. Otherwise wait for version 2). A trade up option is interesting idea. What exactly do you have in mind? Optimal for me: Pay USD 350 for v1. When v2 is out: Return v1 and get a deduction of the price of USD 350. But I will assume that this will not work for you: The returned v1s are probably worthless to you. So a better way might be to include a voucher with a serial number in the v1 package. The voucher will give me a discount of 50% if I buy v2. The serial number is important as you do not want to give the discount to everyone who happens to know someone who has a v1. I might accept a lower discount, but if the discount is less than 30% I personally would prefer to wait for v2. Come to think of it: You should always value your customers and give them incentive to buy more from you. So a trade up might apply to the v2-v3 transition as well. /Ole ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Open Moko - GPL?
On 29/11/06, Ole Tange [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Optimal for me: Pay USD 350 for v1. When v2 is out: Return v1 and get a deduction of the price of USD 350. But I will assume that this will not work for you: The returned v1s are probably worthless to you. So a better way might be to include a voucher with a serial number in the v1 package. Any such discount would be excellent, but I'll be buying a v1 regardless of price. Because its about freedom, not price! :-) -- Regards, Dave ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: no bottle opener Re: Open Moko - GPL?
On Wed, 29 Nov 2006, Sean Moss-Pultz wrote: On 11/28/06 7:31 AM, Robert Michel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - no bottle opener What!? It's a pitty the Neo1973 will not have a case a frame made by strong, but light magnesium alloy, with integrated, fold-out bottle opener to open the beer. Since years I'm waiting for a mobile with that... Which real men needs a camera or bluetooth ? This is absolutely hilarious ;-) Why not really, if these guys have one: http://www.liquorsnob.com/archives/2005/09/reef_bottle_opener_sandals.php Why can't a phone? This topic is fun, and sometimes a bit of fun and lateral thinking can lead to interesting, even useful ideas. I do a lot of work with machine performance artists (e.g. www.srl.org). Our work is always unfunded and volunteer based, using surplus/recycled/restored equipment, meaning that there are always repairs to be made on site, moments before a show starts, or even while a performance is taking place. Needless to say, we all carry at least one Leatherman-type of tool, and a popular topic of conversation is comparing the features of each. Often, we admire one feature from this tool, another couple from that tool, a few more from a third tool, etc. which lead some of us to fantisize about a modular pocket tool (based on an open standard, of course) so that you could buy the tools you want and assemble the custom tool just right for you. So in addition to my bottle opener, vice-grips, torx blades, and MIG welding wire cutter, I also want my Neo1973 module, my 'scope/multimeter module, and my anything to USB power converter module. And one of those little butane powered soldering irons. Michael ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Open Moko - GPL?
On 11/29/06, Dave Crossland [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 29/11/06, Ole Tange [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Optimal for me: Pay USD 350 for v1. When v2 is out: Return v1 and get a deduction of the price of USD 350. But I will assume that this will not work for you: The returned v1s are probably worthless to you. So a better way might be to include a voucher with a serial number in the v1 package. Any such discount would be excellent, but I'll be buying a v1 regardless of price. Because its about freedom, not price! :-) -- Regards, Dave Yeah that's why I will probably buy version 1 too. But I will not be able to afford buying each version. A return strategy could definitely help about this! Regards, Alessandro ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: Open Moko - GPL?
I would most definitely go for a version 1 if there is an option of trading up later. My only doubts about this phone is if its worth buying that phone only to have to buy another when version 2 comes out. But if a trade up is available I am very likely to get version 1 and then trade up when the time comes. I am unsure if I would buy version 1 if there is no such option available, as I am used to getting my phones free on contract, and spending $350 on a phone I plan to upgrade not too long after would just be mad.Cant wait though, I am really excited for it. Hopefully all my hopes turn into reality. Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2006 13:18:41 + From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: community@lists.openmoko.org Subject: Re: Open Moko - GPL? On 11/29/06, Sean Moss-Pultz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: We're still deciding on how open we can be with the hardware. Please keep in mind this is a legal mine field. Every single component we use (expert perhaps the CPU) needs an NDA just to read the datasheet. I would love to see open hardware. But this is _far_ more difficult that open software. ...we're working on it though. As a non-hardware engineer I have been facinated by www.opencores.org. Can you say if you have looked at using their modules? /Ole (Who would go for version 1 if there is a trade-up option. Otherwise wait for version 2). ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/community _ Be one of the first to try Windows Live Mail. http://ideas.live.com/programpage.aspx?versionId=5d21c51a-b161-4314-9b0e-4911fb2b2e6d___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Open Moko - GPL?
On Wednesday 29 November 2006 22:16, Stuart Gray wrote: available, as I am used to getting my phones free on contract, and spending $350 on a phone I plan to upgrade not too long after would just be mad.Cant wait though, I am really excited for it. Hopefully all my hopes turn into reality. It also depends a lot on just how long it will take for v2 to be released and what it will actually support. pgp4guyrBcmJK.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Open Moko - GPL?
On 11/30/06 12:41 AM, Ole Tange [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Come to think of it: You should always value your customers and give them incentive to buy more from you. So a trade up might apply to the v2-v3 transition as well. It's an interesting idea. At this point let me just sit on it. I need to figure out if this (internally) would be even possible. -Sean ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/community
Greetings from Sergei Bubka ;) - Re: Open Moko - GPL?
Salve Ole, Sean! On Thu, 30 Nov 2006, Sean Moss-Pultz wrote: On 11/30/06 12:41 AM, Ole Tange [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Come to think of it: You should always value your customers and give them incentive to buy more from you. So a trade up might apply to the v2-v3 transition as well. It's an interesting idea. At this point let me just sit on it. I need to figure out if this (internally) would be even possible. Ohh noo - Ole, you have remind Sean to the strategie of the pole vaulter Sergei Bubka - he could jump much much more higher then the others, but he did it in 1cm stepps, so for years (1984-1994) he travelled from competition to competition and every time they paid him enough, he achieve a new world record, otherwise he only won that competition: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sergei_Bubka Ole, and now please think what you have Sean/FIC make think - of course would it be easy to let some features out for giving the costumers a value to buy more. I don't see the use to make thoughts about v2-v3 - now. ;) rob ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: feedback on v2 rabatt idea Re: Open Moko - GPL?
On 11/30/06 1:34 AM, Robert Michel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: But I will assume that this will not work for you: The returned v1s are probably worthless to you. So a better way might be to include a voucher with a serial number in the v1 package. The voucher will give me a discount of 50% if I buy v2. The serial number is important as you do not want to give the discount to everyone who happens to know someone who has a v1. Thats sounds better, and of course (I think) FIC will have an interest that the best developers will have the latest hardware - maybe also zero series devices in the future - consider the cost of just one small employee. ;) I do find this idea a lot for appealing. Shipping is really a major headache for us ;-) -Sean ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/community
Open Moko - GPL?
Hi. First of all I want to repeat what many others on this list have already said. I am very excited about the open moko project and the opportunities it represents. I will be one of the first in line to buy an openmoko phone when they are available. I have a few questions. Thanks in advance for taking any time to answer: Software: -- 1. It is mentioned that the gui was designed using gtk. Will the sources for all the interface be released? For that matter, will the sources for everything, including the os itself, drivers, etc be released? Will openmoko follow an open development model similar to debian or fedora? I really hope so and encourage your project to do so since I believe that is the model that benefits everyone the most. 2. If all these things are going to be opened, when? I saw in related posts that this might be delayed until after the release because you guys are focusing on getting things out the door. I understand that but I think that is a mistake. The OSS development model achieves high quality and quick results because of involvement and extensive testing by the community. If you don't release the code and sdk until after the phones are on sale, there is a 100% chance that major bugs or UI features problems will go unfixed or uncaught until after release. Also, everyone is excited to get involved so why make us wait? If you are too busy to deal with supporting the community then just do a pre-release on your website that is just a tarball with no support or community at all. Read the cathedral and the bazaar for a good explanation of the OSS development model and why it works: http://catb.org/esr/writings/cathedral-bazaar/. 3. Why did you not use opie or gpe? If all the drivers and code for openmoko are released, will it be possible for me to run qtopia or gpe on my own if i want to? Are you prepared for the possibility that, if people like gpe or opie more, nice installers will become available very quickly and everyone might just run those environments instead? If it turns out that the public prefers another environment, would the environment for openmoko continue to be developed or would you consider getting behind the environment chosen by the community? I haven't seen openmoko yet so maybe that will be a giant contribution to the community also but for now it really seems like the huge benefit is just the hardware since there are other pda/phone environments availble. Are you prepared to support the voracious appetite the OSS community has for the latest and greatest? Will you always have the latest version of the kernel? Of mplayer? Minimo? Etc? If not forks will quickly form like they did for qtopia. Why not just start an open development project like qtopia from the start so instead of creating division between your project and the community project, you can leverage that enthusiasm, like Ubuntu, Fedora, Debian, etc? I know this may in fact be your plan so I am just asking. 4. What standards or protocols or libraries (other than gtk) were used to create openmoko's software suite? Is there a document editor? Does it use ODT? Is there a music player? Does it play ogg? Is there a mail and calendar client? Do they use ical, can they be synced using opensync? These are major issues that have plagued linux pda development in the past. People reinvent the wheel and even though the platform is semi-open, there is a proliferation of incompatibility. Please use standards and open+existing libraries for everything as much as possible. In that way you maximize the utility of the product and you maximize the leverage you can take from existing projects so you can focus on working on other things. (Related to why not opie or gpe question). Everyone wins and the product is best. 5. X11 - Does the openmoko interface run on X11 or does it display directly on the fb? Using real X11 keeps the door open for a huge number of compatible applications to be run with the openmoko environment. Without X11, openmoko is an island. My previous point about people potentially switching to opie or gpe *will* happen if openmoko does not use X11 because that will be the only way that people can use their favorite apps. This will not be limited to just linux nerds. Look at the popularity of Fink on OSX. Linux has a lot to offer and without X11 there will be a lot of people trying to work around or remove openmoko to get at those offerings. I know this may be your plan already so I am just asking. Hardware: -- 1. This is sort of a rhetorical question: Why innovate? Why not just make semi-knockoffs of very popular existing phones but with hardware that is supported by linux. For example, if you made something similar to the HTC Wizard (especially the new one) that was fully linux compatible I would by 5 just out of happy delirium. I know
Re: Open Moko - GPL?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Steve Salazar schreef: Hi. First of all I want to repeat what many others on this list have already said. I am very excited about the open moko project and the opportunities it represents. I will be one of the first in line to buy an openmoko phone when they are available. I have a few questions. Thanks in advance for taking any time to answer: Software: -- 1. It is mentioned that the gui was designed using gtk. Will the sources for all the interface be released? 'agpsd' will be the only closed source component on your phone Are you prepared to support the voracious appetite the OSS community has for the latest and greatest? Will you always have the latest version of the kernel? Of mplayer? Minimo? Etc? FIC is using openembedded to build their apps, which is already a community effort so FIC gets the latest and greatest basically for free, and you can always build the latest and greatest yourself. can they be synced using opensync? Dunno, but the pressrelease mentioned funambol, so that should be 'plain' syncml. 5. X11 - Does the openmoko interface run on X11 X11, kdrive to be specific 4.5 - What about linuxbios? BIOS? The gta01 doesn't use an x86 cpu, so there is no bios :) 6. CPU: No info on the CPU yet? s3c2410 7. Other random hardware questions/comments/wishes: - Camera: People who say don't bother with a 1.3Mpix camera are photographers or otherwise photography enthusiasts. *raises hand* 90% of the people are very happy at 1.3M because at 1.3 you can do photo album sized images yes with very high quality no, since the lens is always crap. Spending $5 more during production on a lens would greatly enhance the quality. that most people are happy with. Could be, I only have my a780 for reference, and that sucks, even for albumsized images. You don't get the full res out of a picture due to the lens. - USB Host: Please please and make it USB2. 1.1, limitation of the SoC with 128MB RAM that can plug into a USB2 hub usb 1.1 can still be plugged into a 2.0 hub. Also note the '2.0' doesn't mean 480Mbit/s. - Storage: 1GB minimum integrated SD for running a real linux. Kernel 2.6.17.7 isn't real enough for you? ;) regards, Koen -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (Darwin) iD8DBQFFa1R1MkyGM64RGpERAlcHAJ0ZLpriWFWy6vEAIPN8klN6ltzUmACfWCIX ZrDgrmBB2grNnQAxskF1JMw= =lgDb -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Open Moko - GPL?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Corey schreef: On Monday 27 November 2006 14:11, Koen Kooi wrote: Steve Salazar schreef: - Storage: 1GB minimum integrated SD for running a real linux. Kernel 2.6.17.7 isn't real enough for you? ;) Heheh - when will it become clear that: linux == kernel kernel != userland Still, you knew what he meant. (c8= I just couldn't resist :) regards, Koen -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (Darwin) iD8DBQFFa1yBMkyGM64RGpERAl94AKCJ/7gPnKoQs/yD83Ng1s55aVgXLgCZAQzS vkI8CI2nsRYzkgG5qWjWX98= =Yrgo -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/community
Open Moko - GPL?
Wow, thanks for all the very quick responses. Sorry if I sounded a little confrontational or if some of my questions were already answered in other posts but, you know, you get a little skeptical and this project does *almost* seem too good to be true (because it sounds that good). Anyway, could you guys please disappoint me in some small way? I mean all your answers are an OSS fan's dream. Seriously I am very excited and glad to hear that things are being done in this way. Oh, and I missed the release info completely. Sorry, I just saw press info and subconsciously skipped right past that. Lots of good info there. Thanks again and good luck! ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/community
Open Moko - GPL?
Hey, now that I read the presentation I feel a little foolish posting a link to ESR's essays :) Oh well. Once again, thanks and good luck. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Open Moko - GPL?
Salve Steve! On Mon, 27 Nov 2006, Steve Salazar wrote: Wow, thanks for all the very quick responses. Sorry if I sounded a little confrontational or if some of my questions were already answered in other posts but, you know, you get a little skeptical and this project does *almost* seem too good to be true (because it sounds that good). Confrontational questions are not unproductive ;) Anyway, could you guys please disappoint me in some small way? I mean all your answers are an OSS fan's dream. Seriously I am very excited and glad to hear that things are being done in this way. Some disadvantages yet: - no wifi - maybe no bluetooth as well - unpowered USB port - case not waterproof - device not ready to keep 2m falls without damage - no electrical compass, altometer, accelerometer - no audio in - no DRM longwave/shortwave radio - no multimeter (not isolated against 400V) - no laser pointer inside - no camera - no torch - no IRDA - no barcode scanner - no 3D modell scanner - no 3D room scanner - no RS232 - no firelighter - no swiss knive - no toothpick - no bottle opener Enough or did you need more? *g* Oh, and I missed the release info completely. Sorry, I just saw press info and subconsciously skipped right past that. Lots of good info there. Could be a tipp that on the long term the webpage should not hide it behind press inf Thanks again and good luck! ;) To see some of your ideas - Ben did a great job and collected them see: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2006-November/000256.html Greetings, rob ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Open Moko - GPL?
On Monday 27 November 2006 16:14, Robert Michel wrote: snip - no bottle opener What!? unsubscribe [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/community
