Re: Charger? (was: Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update)
Just trying to help. Not terribly useful at the engineering stuff any more so trying to help how I can. :) On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 11:59 AM, steve <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Thanks Lowell. > > > > The phone will ship with a wall charger. > > > -- > ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: Charger? (was: Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update)
Thanks Lowell. The phone will ship with a wall charger. _ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lowell Higley Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 12:58 AM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: Re: Charger? (was: Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update) I think I'm going to have to completely disagree on this one. I RARELY plug anything into a computer to simply charge it. I'd venture almost never. The idea that I HAVE to plug a device into a computer to charge it is completely ridiculous to me. I'd bet my experience as a product marketer that consumers would feel similarly. My expectation of a cell phone (based on precedent) is that I get a wall charger with my phone. Even Apple didn't break this precedent with the iPhone. You can plug it into a cradle (connecting to a system), a wall charger, or a vehicle accessory charger. That being said, I don't know whether this "custom charger" is just a modified USB cable or an actual wall charger. Again, based on precedent, my expectation was that it was a wall charger. Thinking about it now I realize that perhaps that was not a good assumption to make. Just my 4 1/2 cents. On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 12:25 AM, Marcus Bauer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: On Mon, 2008-04-14 at 08:38 +0200, Erland Lewin wrote: > 2008/4/14, steve <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > 1. We have a custom charger that can fast charge the phone. > 2. Standard usb chargers will work just fine. > > How long will charging the phone take with the fast charger vs. a > normal charger? > > If a standard USB charger will take on the order of 12 hours (1200 mAh > battery / 100 mA, probably more due <100% efficiency), that is really > borderline of what sounds acceptable, if an overnight charge won't be > enough to fully charge the phone. There have been plenty of discussions about this on the lists and the great news is that the Neo can use any USB charger. I have a Neo 1973 and use it on a daily basis. The great thing is that you don't need any special charger, you can use any $5 charger and it works. There is a small program out there that can pop up a dialog whenever it sees the Neo only charging at 100mA and asking if you want to draw 500mA. It really is a non issue. I have a couple of those chargers for home/office/car/travel and they all work and charge plenty of other devices too. IMHO a great design decision to use USB for charging. Finally there is an end coming to have all these different chargers around. So I just can second Steve: "2. Standard usb chargers will work just fine." Marcus ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Charger? (was: Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update)
I think my main concern is I see "USB Cable" and "USB Charger" used interchangeably in these messages. They are not one and the same. So which is that we are talking about? On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 1:29 AM, Marcus Bauer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Reading your email I wonder if there is a misunderstanding here. A "USB > charger" is not a device that gets plugged into a computer but it is > simply a device that supplies power on a USB-like plug. It can be a wall > charger or a car charger. > > If you go to ebay and type in "usb charger" you get plenty of hits > starting from a few dollars. > > The only and minor issue is that these chargers don't speak the USB > protocol and thus can't say "hey, you can take as much as you want and > I'll give you as much as I have". They simply offer voltage and current > on the plus and minus lines of the USB plug. > > So essentially the Neo asks "hey, can I have 500mA?" and there is no > answer. The Neo then plays safe and pulls only 100mA as to the USB > standard. But the Neo can pop-up a dialog asking you "hey guy, there is > some unknown charger, I currently take only 100mA, shall I pull more > anyway?" - and this lets you use *any* USB charger out there. Be it one > from Apple or one from eBay. > > best, > marcus > > > On Mon, 2008-04-14 at 00:57 -0700, Lowell Higley wrote: > > I think I'm going to have to completely disagree on this one. I > > RARELY plug anything into a computer to simply charge it. I'd venture > > almost never. The idea that I HAVE to plug a device into a computer > > to charge it is completely ridiculous to me. I'd bet my experience as > > a product marketer that consumers would feel similarly. My > > expectation of a cell phone (based on precedent) is that I get a wall > > charger with my phone. Even Apple didn't break this precedent with > > the iPhone. You can plug it into a cradle (connecting to a system), a > > wall charger, or a vehicle accessory charger. > > > > That being said, I don't know whether this "custom charger" is just a > > modified USB cable or an actual wall charger. Again, based on > > precedent, my expectation was that it was a wall charger. Thinking > > about it now I realize that perhaps that was not a good assumption to > > make. > > > > Just my 4 1/2 cents. > > > > On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 12:25 AM, Marcus Bauer > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On Mon, 2008-04-14 at 08:38 +0200, Erland Lewin wrote: > > > 2008/4/14, steve <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > > > 1. We have a custom charger that can fast charge > > the phone. > > > 2. Standard usb chargers will work just fine. > > > > > > How long will charging the phone take with the fast charger > > vs. a > > > normal charger? > > > > > > If a standard USB charger will take on the order of 12 hours > > (1200 mAh > > > battery / 100 mA, probably more due <100% efficiency), that > > is really > > > borderline of what sounds acceptable, if an overnight charge > > won't be > > > enough to fully charge the phone. > > > > There have been plenty of discussions about this on the lists > > and the > > great news is that the Neo can use any USB charger. > > > > I have a Neo 1973 and use it on a daily basis. The great thing > > is that > > you don't need any special charger, you can use any $5 charger > > and it > > works. There is a small program out there that can pop up a > > dialog > > whenever it sees the Neo only charging at 100mA and asking if > > you want > > to draw 500mA. > > > > It really is a non issue. I have a couple of those chargers > > for > > home/office/car/travel and they all work and charge plenty of > > other > > devices too. IMHO a great design decision to use USB for > > charging. > > Finally there is an end coming to have all these different > > chargers > > around. > > > > So I just can second Steve: > > "2. Standard usb chargers will work just fine." > > > > Marcus > > > > > > > > > > > > ___ > > Openmoko community mailing list > > community@lists.openmoko.org > > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community > > > > ___ > > Openmoko community mailing list > > community@lists.openmoko.org > > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community > > > ___ > Openmoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community > ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Charger? (was: Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update)
2008/4/14, Marcus Bauer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > [...] the > great news is that the Neo can use any USB charger. > > I have a Neo 1973 and use it on a daily basis. The great thing is that > you don't need any special charger, you can use any $5 charger and it > works. There is a small program out there that can pop up a dialog > whenever it sees the Neo only charging at 100mA and asking if you want > to draw 500mA. Sounds good, I'm satisfied! ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Charger? (was: Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update)
Well, you'll get used to it :) USB-Charging is fine. You can use a standard usb-wallcharger as well as any mini-usb cable or usb-carchargers and so on. I have some devices that can only be loaded over usb and some who can also use a proprietary charger. I mostly use usb, because I have a dozend chargers for that. I agree that a charger should be included, but at least we have to know if it will. Also there's still the fast_cccv "issue", means you have to explicitly allow the device to charge at a high rate if the charger isn't a usb-host. As there will be no charger included, I think this should be activated in the official distribution by default to allow charging without hacks. It should also be clear, that there is warranty for this method of charging, as there is no officially allowed solution included. On 4/14/08, Lowell Higley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I think I'm going to have to completely disagree on this one. I RARELY > plug anything into a computer to simply charge it. I'd venture almost > never. The idea that I HAVE to plug a device into a computer to charge it > is completely ridiculous to me. I'd bet my experience as a product marketer > that consumers would feel similarly. My expectation of a cell phone (based > on precedent) is that I get a wall charger with my phone. Even Apple didn't > break this precedent with the iPhone. You can plug it into a cradle > (connecting to a system), a wall charger, or a vehicle accessory charger. > > That being said, I don't know whether this "custom charger" is just a > modified USB cable or an actual wall charger. Again, based on precedent, my > expectation was that it was a wall charger. Thinking about it now I realize > that perhaps that was not a good assumption to make. > > Just my 4 1/2 cents. > > On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 12:25 AM, Marcus Bauer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > > On Mon, 2008-04-14 at 08:38 +0200, Erland Lewin wrote: > > > 2008/4/14, steve <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > > > 1. We have a custom charger that can fast charge the phone. > > > 2. Standard usb chargers will work just fine. > > > > > > How long will charging the phone take with the fast charger vs. a > > > normal charger? > > > > > > If a standard USB charger will take on the order of 12 hours (1200 mAh > > > battery / 100 mA, probably more due <100% efficiency), that is really > > > borderline of what sounds acceptable, if an overnight charge won't be > > > enough to fully charge the phone. > > > > There have been plenty of discussions about this on the lists and the > > great news is that the Neo can use any USB charger. > > > > I have a Neo 1973 and use it on a daily basis. The great thing is that > > you don't need any special charger, you can use any $5 charger and it > > works. There is a small program out there that can pop up a dialog > > whenever it sees the Neo only charging at 100mA and asking if you want > > to draw 500mA. > > > > It really is a non issue. I have a couple of those chargers for > > home/office/car/travel and they all work and charge plenty of other > > devices too. IMHO a great design decision to use USB for charging. > > Finally there is an end coming to have all these different chargers > > around. > > > > So I just can second Steve: > > "2. Standard usb chargers will work just fine." > > > > Marcus > > > > > > > > > > > > ___ > > Openmoko community mailing list > > community@lists.openmoko.org > > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community > > > > > ___ > Openmoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community > > ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Charger? (was: Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update)
Reading your email I wonder if there is a misunderstanding here. A "USB charger" is not a device that gets plugged into a computer but it is simply a device that supplies power on a USB-like plug. It can be a wall charger or a car charger. If you go to ebay and type in "usb charger" you get plenty of hits starting from a few dollars. The only and minor issue is that these chargers don't speak the USB protocol and thus can't say "hey, you can take as much as you want and I'll give you as much as I have". They simply offer voltage and current on the plus and minus lines of the USB plug. So essentially the Neo asks "hey, can I have 500mA?" and there is no answer. The Neo then plays safe and pulls only 100mA as to the USB standard. But the Neo can pop-up a dialog asking you "hey guy, there is some unknown charger, I currently take only 100mA, shall I pull more anyway?" - and this lets you use *any* USB charger out there. Be it one from Apple or one from eBay. best, marcus On Mon, 2008-04-14 at 00:57 -0700, Lowell Higley wrote: > I think I'm going to have to completely disagree on this one. I > RARELY plug anything into a computer to simply charge it. I'd venture > almost never. The idea that I HAVE to plug a device into a computer > to charge it is completely ridiculous to me. I'd bet my experience as > a product marketer that consumers would feel similarly. My > expectation of a cell phone (based on precedent) is that I get a wall > charger with my phone. Even Apple didn't break this precedent with > the iPhone. You can plug it into a cradle (connecting to a system), a > wall charger, or a vehicle accessory charger. > > That being said, I don't know whether this "custom charger" is just a > modified USB cable or an actual wall charger. Again, based on > precedent, my expectation was that it was a wall charger. Thinking > about it now I realize that perhaps that was not a good assumption to > make. > > Just my 4 1/2 cents. > > On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 12:25 AM, Marcus Bauer > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Mon, 2008-04-14 at 08:38 +0200, Erland Lewin wrote: > > 2008/4/14, steve <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > > 1. We have a custom charger that can fast charge > the phone. > > 2. Standard usb chargers will work just fine. > > > > How long will charging the phone take with the fast charger > vs. a > > normal charger? > > > > If a standard USB charger will take on the order of 12 hours > (1200 mAh > > battery / 100 mA, probably more due <100% efficiency), that > is really > > borderline of what sounds acceptable, if an overnight charge > won't be > > enough to fully charge the phone. > > There have been plenty of discussions about this on the lists > and the > great news is that the Neo can use any USB charger. > > I have a Neo 1973 and use it on a daily basis. The great thing > is that > you don't need any special charger, you can use any $5 charger > and it > works. There is a small program out there that can pop up a > dialog > whenever it sees the Neo only charging at 100mA and asking if > you want > to draw 500mA. > > It really is a non issue. I have a couple of those chargers > for > home/office/car/travel and they all work and charge plenty of > other > devices too. IMHO a great design decision to use USB for > charging. > Finally there is an end coming to have all these different > chargers > around. > > So I just can second Steve: > "2. Standard usb chargers will work just fine." > > Marcus > > > > > > ___ > Openmoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community > > ___ > Openmoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Charger? (was: Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update)
I think I'm going to have to completely disagree on this one. I RARELY plug anything into a computer to simply charge it. I'd venture almost never. The idea that I HAVE to plug a device into a computer to charge it is completely ridiculous to me. I'd bet my experience as a product marketer that consumers would feel similarly. My expectation of a cell phone (based on precedent) is that I get a wall charger with my phone. Even Apple didn't break this precedent with the iPhone. You can plug it into a cradle (connecting to a system), a wall charger, or a vehicle accessory charger. That being said, I don't know whether this "custom charger" is just a modified USB cable or an actual wall charger. Again, based on precedent, my expectation was that it was a wall charger. Thinking about it now I realize that perhaps that was not a good assumption to make. Just my 4 1/2 cents. On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 12:25 AM, Marcus Bauer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Mon, 2008-04-14 at 08:38 +0200, Erland Lewin wrote: > > 2008/4/14, steve <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > > 1. We have a custom charger that can fast charge the phone. > > 2. Standard usb chargers will work just fine. > > > > How long will charging the phone take with the fast charger vs. a > > normal charger? > > > > If a standard USB charger will take on the order of 12 hours (1200 mAh > > battery / 100 mA, probably more due <100% efficiency), that is really > > borderline of what sounds acceptable, if an overnight charge won't be > > enough to fully charge the phone. > > There have been plenty of discussions about this on the lists and the > great news is that the Neo can use any USB charger. > > I have a Neo 1973 and use it on a daily basis. The great thing is that > you don't need any special charger, you can use any $5 charger and it > works. There is a small program out there that can pop up a dialog > whenever it sees the Neo only charging at 100mA and asking if you want > to draw 500mA. > > It really is a non issue. I have a couple of those chargers for > home/office/car/travel and they all work and charge plenty of other > devices too. IMHO a great design decision to use USB for charging. > Finally there is an end coming to have all these different chargers > around. > > So I just can second Steve: > "2. Standard usb chargers will work just fine." > > Marcus > > > > > > ___ > Openmoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community > ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
