Re: Om2008.8 comments and questions
Hi Al, Unfortunately, this entry wasn't in the wiki at the time I flashed 2008.8. But thanks for the tip. I will try that. Helmut The VCF import method mentioned in the wiki works fine for me with the addressbook exported by my old k700i. You can run from the terminal which you can install using the installer app, or you can run it via SSH, though in that case you'll probably want to 'export DISPLAY=:0' first. http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Import_Vcf_Contacts#Import_for_ASU.2FQtopia ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Om2008.8 comments and questions
True, but 'send / receive phone calls' is on everybody's list. Not that I disagree with your arguments, I'd just like to point out that for me for example, this is not the case. I think of the Freerunner more as a small mobile Linux computer. I want it for GPS, media, web browsing, cool stuff first as I'm going to keep using my old phone for the time being. The killer features really are different for everybody and it's not healthy to generalise so much. : ) Yogiz ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Om2008.8 comments and questions
Le Wednesday, 13. August 2008 01:30:55 Jeremiah Flerchinger, vous avez écrit : On Tue, 2008-08-12 at 17:13 -0400, Helmut Tessarek wrote: Alright then. What format has the addressbook? A .vcf importer cannot be that hard to develop. It does not even have to be a GUI app. I'm not sure if it would be worth the effort to work on this just for 2008.8. One of the phase 2 subsystems for FSO is a PIM manager that should handle this, although I don't think much work has been done on it yet. Maybe working on this for FSO and rolling it into 2008.8 would make more sense. So is FSO actually trying to solve problems that have been solved a long time ago in Qtopia? That's one thing I still don't got yet, I see a lot of NIH syndrome in OM. Sure the Qtopia stack is far from perfect, but it is some 4 to 6 years more advanced and stable than ASU, FSO or 2007.2. The reason for the slow progress here is that everyone wants to do anything with a _simple phone_ apart from just using it as a smartphone with extras. People want some sort of desktop-distribution, it shall be able to run GTK, Qt, EFL and Java apps, not to forget all scripting-languages on earth (my beloved Python, ...). To me this is all nonsense because none really works after all this time that OM started (not to mention the integration efforts). My suggestions: Flash the recent Qtopia image onto your phone, browse Qtopia.net for useful applications, fetch the SDK there and start developing for a mature, stable platform. Or keep hunting for promises. Just my 2 cents. -- Sascha Peilicke ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: Om2008.8 comments and questions
Hi Wolfgang, I read the Software Testing Report from Wendy. I like this report because it synchronizes the customer with the engineers. Why not add the test case: Convert contacts from the old Address Book to the New Address Book. So, next time Helmut is able to convert his address book from an old version to the current version. Best Regards, Peter -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Wolfgang Spraul Sent: Mittwoch, 13. August 2008 02:30 To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: Re: Om2008.8 comments and questions Dear Helmut, your priorities are our priorities _BUT_ it will still take quite a while, yes. From what you write, you seem to be indeed the perfect customer we are focusing our efforts on. You have a Linux system on your desktop or notebook already, you are looking for a phone that works well with it. At the beginning, you want to use the phone only for 'basic' phone usage. How to get there? Well, I see a lot of development momentum building now, our ca. 20 internal software engineers don't actually make that big of a difference. Great low-level patches are coming already, we are now trying to straighten up the build system to something more like Debian with stable/testing/unstable. We are not developing a proprietary system and have no interest in doing so. Compatibility with Ubuntu and other distributions is very important. I understand your frustration about importing contacts and alarms, thanks for the reminder, and rest assured that these things are indeed very high on our priority list, right after making phone calls and SMS. Keep us honest if things don't improve fast enough! Best Regards, Wolfgang On Aug 13, 2008, at 1:55 AM, Helmut Tessarek wrote: Hi Openmoko cummunity (and developmen team), I'm a little bit concerned about how priorities are set and handled and would like to read your opinion. 2 weeks ago I got my Neo Freerunner with Om2007. I was able to get it up and running, even importing my contacts from my old phone wasn't really an issue. WiFi worked ok too. Then I flashed my phone with Om2008.8. Call me oldfashioned, but I'm one of the guys who wants to use his phone for the reason it was actually built in the first place: making phone calls. I expect only 3 things from a phone (which are the most basic things a phone should be able to accomplish): 1) making and receiving calls 2) managing contacts 3) alarm function I will go in more detail regarding these 3 points in a moment. I know that the phone has overwhelming features and I would like to see them in action, but first I should be able to use it as a phone. I don't care about GPS, games or a graphical installer right now. ad 2) I was not able to migrate my phonebook from om2007 to om2008. I had a backup from my home dir and I had the .vcf files on my sd card. Well, entering my 500 contacts is not an option. The keyboard is more or less useless, since it takes at least 'number of character' times 2 seconds to enter a word, which cannot be guessed by the keyboard 'logic'. What about sending contacts via Bluetooth? What about importing vcf files? ad 3) this does not work either. sometimes I can see an alarm icon, but no alarm tone. hmmm, not much of an alarm then. These are basic functions which do not work and people are talking about GTA03, cameras, GPS mapping functions. I don't get it. First of all the phone should be able to do at least things that a 50$ phone can do. I bought the openmoko phone, because I'm using Linux and I thought that it would be easier to sync contact and calendar data with my workstation. I was definitely wrong. The data is not even compatible between Om releases. Furthermore it seems to me that a propriatary system is developed which makes it even harder to communicate with standard Linux distros. In that case I could have bought the iPhone as well. At least that phone works. As long as the priorities are not focused on basic features as I described above, this phone will not be useable for quite a while. Regards, Helmut ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Om2008.8 comments and questions
Am Mittwoch 13 August 2008 09:27:06 schrieb Sascha Peilicke: Le Wednesday, 13. August 2008 01:30:55 Jeremiah Flerchinger, vous avez écrit : On Tue, 2008-08-12 at 17:13 -0400, Helmut Tessarek wrote: Alright then. What format has the addressbook? A .vcf importer cannot be that hard to develop. It does not even have to be a GUI app. I'm not sure if it would be worth the effort to work on this just for 2008.8. One of the phase 2 subsystems for FSO is a PIM manager that should handle this, although I don't think much work has been done on it yet. Maybe working on this for FSO and rolling it into 2008.8 would make more sense. So is FSO actually trying to solve problems that have been solved a long time ago in Qtopia? No. FSO solves other problems, i.e. exposing mobile system services in a toolkit and library independent way over the de-facto IPC standard on Linux. -- :M: ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Om2008.8 comments and questions
I don't get it. First of all the phone should be able to do at least things that a 50$ phone can do. Forget $50, there are probably millions of phones that can handle those things sitting in landfills. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Om2008.8 comments and questions
Dear Helmut, your priorities are our priorities _BUT_ it will still take quite a while, yes. From what you write, you seem to be indeed the perfect customer we are focusing our efforts on. You have a Linux system on your desktop or notebook already, you are looking for a phone that works well with it. At the beginning, you want to use the phone only for 'basic' phone usage. How to get there? Well, I see a lot of development momentum building now, our ca. 20 internal software engineers don't actually make that big of a difference. Great low-level patches are coming already, we are now trying to straighten up the build system to something more like Debian with stable/testing/unstable. We are not developing a proprietary system and have no interest in doing so. Compatibility with Ubuntu and other distributions is very important. I understand your frustration about importing contacts and alarms, thanks for the reminder, and rest assured that these things are indeed very high on our priority list, right after making phone calls and SMS. Keep us honest if things don't improve fast enough! Best Regards, Wolfgang On Aug 13, 2008, at 1:55 AM, Helmut Tessarek wrote: Hi Openmoko cummunity (and developmen team), I'm a little bit concerned about how priorities are set and handled and would like to read your opinion. 2 weeks ago I got my Neo Freerunner with Om2007. I was able to get it up and running, even importing my contacts from my old phone wasn't really an issue. WiFi worked ok too. Then I flashed my phone with Om2008.8. Call me oldfashioned, but I'm one of the guys who wants to use his phone for the reason it was actually built in the first place: making phone calls. I expect only 3 things from a phone (which are the most basic things a phone should be able to accomplish): 1) making and receiving calls 2) managing contacts 3) alarm function I will go in more detail regarding these 3 points in a moment. I know that the phone has overwhelming features and I would like to see them in action, but first I should be able to use it as a phone. I don't care about GPS, games or a graphical installer right now. ad 2) I was not able to migrate my phonebook from om2007 to om2008. I had a backup from my home dir and I had the .vcf files on my sd card. Well, entering my 500 contacts is not an option. The keyboard is more or less useless, since it takes at least 'number of character' times 2 seconds to enter a word, which cannot be guessed by the keyboard 'logic'. What about sending contacts via Bluetooth? What about importing vcf files? ad 3) this does not work either. sometimes I can see an alarm icon, but no alarm tone. hmmm, not much of an alarm then. These are basic functions which do not work and people are talking about GTA03, cameras, GPS mapping functions. I don't get it. First of all the phone should be able to do at least things that a 50$ phone can do. I bought the openmoko phone, because I'm using Linux and I thought that it would be easier to sync contact and calendar data with my workstation. I was definitely wrong. The data is not even compatible between Om releases. Furthermore it seems to me that a propriatary system is developed which makes it even harder to communicate with standard Linux distros. In that case I could have bought the iPhone as well. At least that phone works. As long as the priorities are not focused on basic features as I described above, this phone will not be useable for quite a while. Regards, Helmut ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Om2008.8 comments and questions
I think this is related to the bug where sound is lost when you suspend/resume. As Om2008.8 likes to suspend a LOT, chances are it suspended before your alarm could go off. At least, I think that's what happened on my attempts. I don't know if the alarm wakes the phone up or not. Didn't really check that. -Steven On Tue, Aug 12, 2008 at 12:55 PM, Helmut Tessarek [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ad 3) this does not work either. sometimes I can see an alarm icon, but no alarm tone. hmmm, not much of an alarm then. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Om2008.8 comments and questions
Hi Steven, The phone was suspended and honestly it has to work if it is suspended. Otherwise the phone would be fully up everytime I set an alarm? Helmut On 12.08.2008 15:00, Steven ** wrote: I think this is related to the bug where sound is lost when you suspend/resume. As Om2008.8 likes to suspend a LOT, chances are it suspended before your alarm could go off. At least, I think that's what happened on my attempts. I don't know if the alarm wakes the phone up or not. Didn't really check that. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: Om2008.8 comments and questions
I can't speak for the Openmoko developers, but it is fairly well known that the openmoko software is a work in progress with things breaking and being fixed very often. I believe most people who have the Neo phones have them to be part of something new that hasn't been done before on a phone, test and play with something exciting yet still unfinished, and possibly even contribute to making the phone software even better. These people also understand that the software is a work in progress, and that nothing at this stage in the game is guaranteed not to break. If your needs actually are a solid and easy phone, with few hiccups, and good linux compatibility... I'm guessing you purchased about a year too early in its development. Remember that opensource development != proprietary development, as opensource software is often available to users/developers years in advance of it being stable enough to do the work expected of the final version... where proprietary software (like the iPhone you mention) is hidden from users for years during the stage of development openmoko is currently. This is like trying to use the iPhone a year before it was released to the public. It would have been exciting, but few things would have worked perfectly, with regressions and inconsistencies between builds just the same. Be excited you are part of something new, but to expect solid performance today is a bit premature. I can't wait for mine to arrive next week, working features be damned! :) -Nick Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2008 13:55:39 -0400 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: community@lists.openmoko.org Subject: Om2008.8 comments and questions Hi Openmoko cummunity (and developmen team), I'm a little bit concerned about how priorities are set and handled and would like to read your opinion. 2 weeks ago I got my Neo Freerunner with Om2007. I was able to get it up and running, even importing my contacts from my old phone wasn't really an issue. WiFi worked ok too. Then I flashed my phone with Om2008.8. Call me oldfashioned, but I'm one of the guys who wants to use his phone for the reason it was actually built in the first place: making phone calls. I expect only 3 things from a phone (which are the most basic things a phone should be able to accomplish): 1) making and receiving calls 2) managing contacts 3) alarm function I will go in more detail regarding these 3 points in a moment. I know that the phone has overwhelming features and I would like to see them in action, but first I should be able to use it as a phone. I don't care about GPS, games or a graphical installer right now. ad 2) I was not able to migrate my phonebook from om2007 to om2008. I had a backup from my home dir and I had the .vcf files on my sd card. Well, entering my 500 contacts is not an option. The keyboard is more or less useless, since it takes at least 'number of character' times 2 seconds to enter a word, which cannot be guessed by the keyboard 'logic'. What about sending contacts via Bluetooth? What about importing vcf files? ad 3) this does not work either. sometimes I can see an alarm icon, but no alarm tone. hmmm, not much of an alarm then. These are basic functions which do not work and people are talking about GTA03, cameras, GPS mapping functions. I don't get it. First of all the phone should be able to do at least things that a 50$ phone can do. I bought the openmoko phone, because I'm using Linux and I thought that it would be easier to sync contact and calendar data with my workstation. I was definitely wrong. The data is not even compatible between Om releases. Furthermore it seems to me that a propriatary system is developed which makes it even harder to communicate with standard Linux distros. In that case I could have bought the iPhone as well. At least that phone works. As long as the priorities are not focused on basic features as I described above, this phone will not be useable for quite a while. Regards, Helmut ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community _ Your PC, mobile phone, and online services work together like never before. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/108587394/direct/01/ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Om2008.8 comments and questions
Hi Wolfgang, Thank you for your reply. your priorities are our priorities _BUT_ it will still take quite a while, yes. This is ok, as long as there is progress. The basic features should be really the only thing, development is doing right now. The sooner the basic stuff works, the sooner the community can enjoy the other fancy features. We are not developing a proprietary system and have no interest in doing so. Compatibility with Ubuntu and other distributions is very important. Alright then. What format has the addressbook? A .vcf importer cannot be that hard to develop. It does not even have to be a GUI app. I understand your frustration about importing contacts and alarms, thanks for the reminder, and rest assured that these things are indeed very high on our priority list, right after making phone calls and SMS. Nice to hear. Keep us honest if things don't improve fast enough! I know that developing is a long process and that it takes some time before it is ready for GA, but I just had the feeling that the priorities drifted away... Regards, Helmut ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Om2008.8 comments and questions
i think basic stuff is subjective. for example, i just need : 1. send / receive phone calls 2. send / receive text messaging 3. battery life but obviously this wont be the same for everyone. 1. i think almost everyone can agree on. so the sim card debacle was an interesting hurdle early. 2. doesnt work in 2008.8 reliably while in sleep. does this weird thing where the phone wakes up. no sound. and no message in the inbox. but it definitely senses something. eventually it does show up at some random point in the future, but i just have to know that theres a message in there. 3. is absolutely terrible. thought it would last at least a night in suspend. but it doesnt. so it wont ever even get to the alarm cause the phone is dead. the persistent lightning bolt is obviously a problem, but thatll get fixed eventually i agree with you on contacts to a degree, but i only need name = number really. you sound like you have a lot of business contacts with emails and fax and postals. .. On Tue, Aug 12, 2008 at 4:13 PM, Helmut Tessarek [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Wolfgang, Thank you for your reply. your priorities are our priorities _BUT_ it will still take quite a while, yes. This is ok, as long as there is progress. The basic features should be really the only thing, development is doing right now. The sooner the basic stuff works, the sooner the community can enjoy the other fancy features. We are not developing a proprietary system and have no interest in doing so. Compatibility with Ubuntu and other distributions is very important. Alright then. What format has the addressbook? A .vcf importer cannot be that hard to develop. It does not even have to be a GUI app. I understand your frustration about importing contacts and alarms, thanks for the reminder, and rest assured that these things are indeed very high on our priority list, right after making phone calls and SMS. Nice to hear. Keep us honest if things don't improve fast enough! I know that developing is a long process and that it takes some time before it is ready for GA, but I just had the feeling that the priorities drifted away... Regards, Helmut ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Om2008.8 comments and questions
On Tuesday 12 August 2008, Helmut Tessarek wrote: ad 2) I was not able to migrate my phonebook from om2007 to om2008. I had a backup from my home dir and I had the .vcf files on my sd card. Well, entering my 500 contacts is not an option. The keyboard is more or less useless, since it takes at least 'number of character' times 2 seconds to enter a word, which cannot be guessed by the keyboard 'logic'. What about sending contacts via Bluetooth? What about importing vcf files? The VCF import method mentioned in the wiki works fine for me with the addressbook exported by my old k700i. You can run from the terminal which you can install using the installer app, or you can run it via SSH, though in that case you'll probably want to 'export DISPLAY=:0' first. http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Import_Vcf_Contacts#Import_for_ASU.2FQtopia ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Om2008.8 comments and questions
On Tue, 2008-08-12 at 17:13 -0400, Helmut Tessarek wrote: Alright then. What format has the addressbook? A .vcf importer cannot be that hard to develop. It does not even have to be a GUI app. I'm not sure if it would be worth the effort to work on this just for 2008.8. One of the phase 2 subsystems for FSO is a PIM manager that should handle this, although I don't think much work has been done on it yet. Maybe working on this for FSO and rolling it into 2008.8 would make more sense. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
