Re: Progress on GTA01 power management issues !
Hello Richter ! I have not made any complains regarding the software, what I am complaining about is the fact that no representative from openmoko has commented on the bug that makes the GTA01 not wakeup from suspend on incoming calls and/or SMS:es. (reliably anyway) As far as I understand people in the community has been investigating this and indicated that it is likely to be a bug related to the modem hardware or firmware. Me and others has asked this question a number of times on this list, but so far no official comments. I didn't expect the GTA01 (or any product as complex as this) to be bug free, but I did expect openmoko to be open and supportive. If this is how they will handle current and future problems (with silence), I'd advice against buying their stuff. /Fredrik On Mon, Apr 21, 2008 at 4:48 PM, Flemming Richter Mikkelsen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 4/21/08, Fredrik Markström [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Still no official comments on this issue ? Until this is resolved I advice newcomers to be careful before spending $399 on another piece of potentially useless hardware (GTA02). From my point of view openmoko might be as silent and unresponsive, using busy with nextgen hardware as an excuse with any future hardware revision. I think you have misunderstood the consept. Now Openmoko works hard to bring out the GTA02 STK to software developers. The software developers are the community. We will implement power management and Openmoko is nice enough to help us by (they hired people just to help us). The iPhone is not open but at least useful, and also $399 ! Then go and buy an iPhone if you rather have that. If you do not want a developer edition, but a consumer ready phone, you should not buy the Freerunner yet. -- Please don't send me Word or PowerPoint attachments. See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html Join the FSF as an Associate Member at: URL:http://www.fsf.org/register_form?referrer=5774 ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Progress on GTA01 power management issues !
In fact it is $399 + ($0 for ZiPhone unlock) ! /Fredrik On Mon, Apr 21, 2008 at 6:34 PM, thomasg [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It is always funny to see how the bad marketing works. Still many people out there haven't noticed, that the iPhone doesn't cost 399$. In fact it cost's 399$ + 24 monthly fees hidden behind some included minutes and so on. On Mon, Apr 21, 2008 at 4:27 PM, Fredrik Markström [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Still no official comments on this issue ? Until this is resolved I advice newcomers to be careful before spending $399 on another piece of potentially useless hardware (GTA02). From my point of view openmoko might be as silent and unresponsive, using busy with nextgen hardware as an excuse with any future hardware revision. The iPhone is not open but at least useful, and also $399 ! /Fredrik ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Progress on GTA01 power management issues !
Matthew, 1) I was talking about GTA01 and the suspend/resume bug, I don't care about standby minutes, but I'd like to be able to use it for a little more then 3 hours between charging. 2) True, but I don't question the community or the software, I question the openness of openmoko regarding hardware issues. 3) True, sorry about my false comparison. /Fredrik On Mon, Apr 21, 2008 at 6:59 PM, Crane, Matthew [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Give me a break. 1) Worst case, no fix, so led is disabled. Phone is therefore useless? Why do you exaggerate? I speculate you are discouraging people so that they also waste there money on an iPhone and therefore partially validate your flawed decision to buy one. 2) Open development taken with current community size means we are already past the critical volume required to sustain long term access to knowledgeable people and web resources. The traffic on the dev lists for openmoko is comparable to projects that sustain for many years. 3) iPhone + gps = 399$ + 150$ -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Fredrik Markström Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 10:28 AM To: List for OpenMoko community discussion Subject: Progress on GTA01 power management issues ! Still no official comments on this issue ? Until this is resolved I advice newcomers to be careful before spending $399 on another piece of potentially useless hardware (GTA02). From my point of view openmoko might be as silent and unresponsive, using busy with nextgen hardware as an excuse with any future hardware revision. The iPhone is not open but at least useful, and also $399 ! /Fredrik ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Progress on GTA01 power management issues !
Hi Fredrik, All I can say is since loading the 17th April image on my Neo it has in terms of battery life become *very* usable. I'm s glad now that I can set the 'power management' to 'dim then lock' and now I can happily use it for a whole day (or more as haven't tested its thresholds yet)! Thanks Openmoko! Regards, Tim On Wed, 2008-04-23 at 15:28 +0200, Fredrik Markström wrote: Hello Richter ! I have not made any complains regarding the software, what I am complaining about is the fact that no representative from openmoko has commented on the bug that makes the GTA01 not wakeup from suspend on incoming calls and/or SMS:es. (reliably anyway) As far as I understand people in the community has been investigating this and indicated that it is likely to be a bug related to the modem hardware or firmware. Me and others has asked this question a number of times on this list, but so far no official comments. I didn't expect the GTA01 (or any product as complex as this) to be bug free, but I did expect openmoko to be open and supportive. If this is how they will handle current and future problems (with silence), I'd advice against buying their stuff. /Fredrik On Mon, Apr 21, 2008 at 4:48 PM, Flemming Richter Mikkelsen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 4/21/08, Fredrik Markström [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Still no official comments on this issue ? Until this is resolved I advice newcomers to be careful before spending $399 on another piece of potentially useless hardware (GTA02). From my point of view openmoko might be as silent and unresponsive, using busy with nextgen hardware as an excuse with any future hardware revision. I think you have misunderstood the consept. Now Openmoko works hard to bring out the GTA02 STK to software developers. The software developers are the community. We will implement power management and Openmoko is nice enough to help us by (they hired people just to help us). The iPhone is not open but at least useful, and also $399 ! Then go and buy an iPhone if you rather have that. If you do not want a developer edition, but a consumer ready phone, you should not buy the Freerunner yet. -- Please don't send me Word or PowerPoint attachments. See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html Join the FSF as an Associate Member at: URL:http://www.fsf.org/register_form?referrer=5774 ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Progress on GTA01 power management issues !
Are you saying that sound GSM work after resume using the April 17th image? What kernel image are you using? Hi Fredrik, All I can say is since loading the 17th April image on my Neo it has in terms of battery life become *very* usable. I'm s glad now that I can set the 'power management' to 'dim then lock' and now I can happily use it for a whole day (or more as haven't tested its thresholds yet)! Thanks Openmoko! Regards, Tim -- Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country. — Hermann Göring at the Nuremberg trials ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Progress on GTA01 power management issues !
Hi Bobby, Well, I should've clarified that I haven't tested GSM after a resume (I was just happy to have the UI return to a usable state). And I'm using the 17th image/kernel recommended by Kevin Dean. I'll report back on my GSM test results in another email. -Tim On Wed, 2008-04-23 at 15:32 -0500, Bobby Martin wrote: Are you saying that sound GSM work after resume using the April 17th image? What kernel image are you using? Hi Fredrik, All I can say is since loading the 17th April image on my Neo it has in terms of battery life become *very* usable. I'm s glad now that I can set the 'power management' to 'dim then lock' and now I can happily use it for a whole day (or more as haven't tested its thresholds yet)! Thanks Openmoko! Regards, Tim -- Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country. — Hermann Göring at the Nuremberg trials ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Progress on GTA01 power management issues !
On 4/21/08, Fredrik Markström [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Still no official comments on this issue ? Until this is resolved I advice newcomers to be careful before spending $399 on another piece of potentially useless hardware (GTA02). From my point of view openmoko might be as silent and unresponsive, using busy with nextgen hardware as an excuse with any future hardware revision. I think you have misunderstood the consept. Now Openmoko works hard to bring out the GTA02 STK to software developers. The software developers are the community. We will implement power management and Openmoko is nice enough to help us by (they hired people just to help us). The iPhone is not open but at least useful, and also $399 ! Then go and buy an iPhone if you rather have that. If you do not want a developer edition, but a consumer ready phone, you should not buy the Freerunner yet. -- Please don't send me Word or PowerPoint attachments. See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html Join the FSF as an Associate Member at: URL:http://www.fsf.org/register_form?referrer=5774 ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Progress on GTA01 power management issues !
It is always funny to see how the bad marketing works. Still many people out there haven't noticed, that the iPhone doesn't cost 399$. In fact it cost's 399$ + 24 monthly fees hidden behind some included minutes and so on. On Mon, Apr 21, 2008 at 4:27 PM, Fredrik Markström [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Still no official comments on this issue ? Until this is resolved I advice newcomers to be careful before spending $399 on another piece of potentially useless hardware (GTA02). From my point of view openmoko might be as silent and unresponsive, using busy with nextgen hardware as an excuse with any future hardware revision. The iPhone is not open but at least useful, and also $399 ! /Fredrik ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: Progress on GTA01 power management issues !
Yea, not to mention all the extra crap you gotta pay if you want to have a broad base of sw. These mobile devices are turning into platforms where software fees for dinky little apps are to be the primary source of income for the hardware mfgr, much like game consoles. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of thomasg Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 12:35 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: Re: Progress on GTA01 power management issues ! It is always funny to see how the bad marketing works. Still many people out there haven't noticed, that the iPhone doesn't cost 399$. In fact it cost's 399$ + 24 monthly fees hidden behind some included minutes and so on. On Mon, Apr 21, 2008 at 4:27 PM, Fredrik Markström [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Still no official comments on this issue ? Until this is resolved I advice newcomers to be careful before spending $399 on another piece of potentially useless hardware (GTA02). From my point of view openmoko might be as silent and unresponsive, using busy with nextgen hardware as an excuse with any future hardware revision. The iPhone is not open but at least useful, and also $399 ! /Fredrik ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: Progress on GTA01 power management issues !
Give me a break. 1) Worst case, no fix, so led is disabled. Phone is therefore useless? Why do you exaggerate? I speculate you are discouraging people so that they also waste there money on an iPhone and therefore partially validate your flawed decision to buy one. 2) Open development taken with current community size means we are already past the critical volume required to sustain long term access to knowledgeable people and web resources. The traffic on the dev lists for openmoko is comparable to projects that sustain for many years. 3) iPhone + gps = 399$ + 150$ -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Fredrik Markström Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 10:28 AM To: List for OpenMoko community discussion Subject: Progress on GTA01 power management issues ! Still no official comments on this issue ? Until this is resolved I advice newcomers to be careful before spending $399 on another piece of potentially useless hardware (GTA02). From my point of view openmoko might be as silent and unresponsive, using busy with nextgen hardware as an excuse with any future hardware revision. The iPhone is not open but at least useful, and also $399 ! /Fredrik ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Progress on GTA01 power management issues !
On Mon, Apr 21, 2008 at 10:27 AM, Fredrik Markström [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Still no official comments on this issue ? Until this is resolved I advice newcomers to be careful before spending $399 on another piece of potentially useless hardware (GTA02). If you think your GTA01 is useless, I'll buy it from you for $5 USD... I'd love to have a spare battery for mine. I use the Neo1973 as my primary phone and digital audio player. Furthermore, it's powered by Free Software except for the bits that I'm explicitly informed are NOT. Respecting my property rights is quite valuable IMO. The device is functional enough to be used for me. I'd advise ANYONE making value judgements to look at the definition of value. It's inherently different for everyone, which is why the ideas of commerce and sale and free markets work - because the value of a good is different for one person than another and when that exchange of values benefits BOTH parties, it is a good sale. Power management issues are well known on GTA01 and there are people who still think the device is a good value, myself included. People should evaluate their own uses and decide from themselves. Keep in mind that without selling the Freerunner, there won't BE an improved device. From my point of view openmoko might be as silent and unresponsive, using busy with nextgen hardware as an excuse with any future hardware revision. As opposed to every other device manufacturer? I've never had Nokia or Motorola or Samsung or anyone else fix my problems right away. One the flip side, Openmoko is pretty clear about what's happening. Furthermore, they were also pretty clear when I entered my credit card information into the online storefront that there WOULD be issues with the device and that it was a developer's edition. The iPhone is not open but at least useful, and also $399 ! And yet, this is the Openmoko community list, full of people who are interested in Openmoko products. Some of us don't care one iota about the iPhone because (again, that value thing) it's not worth our money. For me, I'd not pay to be in Apple's golden cage - I'm sure others fell the same way. For other people, iPhone is a social cliche - useless because it's popular. If the iPhone is better than a product offered by Openmoko, spend your money on an iPhone instead. /Fredrik ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Progress on GTA01 power management issues !
Why the hell would a geek buy a shiny crap that can play f***ing top hits and show some idiot web pages for 400$. Who cares them??? Features are not why I am interested in Openmoko. Yet unimplemented features are what makes me interested. A geek needs something hackable. Something with replacable software. Limited SDK-s, restrictive license and paying for features that are already implemented by the free world is not what people like here. It is all about freedom and openness. It is so free that you are free not to understand. Fredrik Markström wrote: Still no official comments on this issue ? Until this is resolved I advice newcomers to be careful before spending $399 on another piece of potentially useless hardware (GTA02). From my point of view openmoko might be as silent and unresponsive, using busy with nextgen hardware as an excuse with any future hardware revision. The iPhone is not open but at least useful, and also $399 ! /Fredrik ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: Progress on GTA01 power management issues !
Kevin, I loved your description about how commerce happens. Its because we disagree, it's because we value things differently, that a trade happens. People agree on a price because they disagree on the value. and that foundational disagreement fuels innovation. So, I like arguments. WRT to Apple iImplants. if somebody wants to buy into the borg, I shrug. red pill? blue pill? choose. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kevin Dean Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 10:15 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: Re: Progress on GTA01 power management issues ! On Mon, Apr 21, 2008 at 10:27 AM, Fredrik Markström [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Still no official comments on this issue ? Until this is resolved I advice newcomers to be careful before spending $399 on another piece of potentially useless hardware (GTA02). If you think your GTA01 is useless, I'll buy it from you for $5 USD... I'd love to have a spare battery for mine. I use the Neo1973 as my primary phone and digital audio player. Furthermore, it's powered by Free Software except for the bits that I'm explicitly informed are NOT. Respecting my property rights is quite valuable IMO. The device is functional enough to be used for me. I'd advise ANYONE making value judgements to look at the definition of value. It's inherently different for everyone, which is why the ideas of commerce and sale and free markets work - because the value of a good is different for one person than another and when that exchange of values benefits BOTH parties, it is a good sale. Power management issues are well known on GTA01 and there are people who still think the device is a good value, myself included. People should evaluate their own uses and decide from themselves. Keep in mind that without selling the Freerunner, there won't BE an improved device. From my point of view openmoko might be as silent and unresponsive, using busy with nextgen hardware as an excuse with any future hardware revision. As opposed to every other device manufacturer? I've never had Nokia or Motorola or Samsung or anyone else fix my problems right away. One the flip side, Openmoko is pretty clear about what's happening. Furthermore, they were also pretty clear when I entered my credit card information into the online storefront that there WOULD be issues with the device and that it was a developer's edition. The iPhone is not open but at least useful, and also $399 ! And yet, this is the Openmoko community list, full of people who are interested in Openmoko products. Some of us don't care one iota about the iPhone because (again, that value thing) it's not worth our money. For me, I'd not pay to be in Apple's golden cage - I'm sure others fell the same way. For other people, iPhone is a social cliche - useless because it's popular. If the iPhone is better than a product offered by Openmoko, spend your money on an iPhone instead. /Fredrik ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
