Re: [OT]Software patents end? ??:) light at the end of tunnel
David Pottage wrote: On Thu, November 27, 2008 7:06 am, Denis Johnson wrote: ... Preferably using something like http://www.exactaudiocopy.de/ (if someone knows a Linux equivalent please chime in) The linux equivalent is cdparanoia. Like EAC it will produce bit perfect rips of audio CDs. It is a command line program If you want a GUI, then you can use Grip. It is a GTK based program that automates the whole process of ripping, track listing lookups, and transcoding to your prefered compressed format. If you have a big stack of CDs to rip, then you can easily sit there using your computer for other things, and feed in a new CD every few minutes. Thanks for everybody's advice. some comments: * Grip is fantastic * Thanks for observing that mp3 - ogg is lossy, and that I should just delete my mp3s and go from CD - ogg where possible * It's my Hard drive that doesn't support FLAC! If I used flac, my music library (I guess mp3 collection will soon become a misnomer!) would be *enormous*! Yes, I realise it's lossless etc etc, but 320kpbs mp3s are close enough for me. Thanks, -Dale ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [OT]Software patents end? ??:) light at the end of tunnel
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Somebody in the thread at some point said: | FLAC *is* compressed, but it's lossless compression, meaning that there | is no change to the sound when you encode it to FLAC, Whereas when you | encode to MP3 or ogg, you're losing audio information. | | I'd like to point out also that the CD source is already lossy in that | it is a digital representation of analog signals. Recording companies, | however, compensate for this and work to make the sound output from a CD | player as ideal as possible, About FLAC it's actually really interesting. They do a lossy compression action like most other codecs, but they then decode it and compute an additional error channel, the difference between what the lossy decoder gives and the original it still has access to at encode time. The error channel is compressed in the gzip type sense and added into the FLAC file along with the lossy encode. The end user FLAC decoder does the lossy decompression and then adds on the error channel to give a lossless result in the end. (Sorry Arne... but it's kind of on-topic you know with the Android image getting recooked for this). - -Andy -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkkv0s8ACgkQOjLpvpq7dMqLigCeLIEmWJieYNQk6nAGyJawaZSj W50Ani6oPQ0GRWNDkMrHxNjADBvipEjC =7g1J -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [OT]Software patents end? ??:) light at the end of tunnel
but it's kind of on-topic you know with the Android image getting recooked for this). now i am confused. care to elaborate? ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [OT]Software patents end? ??:) light at the end of tunnel
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Somebody in the thread at some point said: | but it's kind of on-topic you know with the Android image | getting recooked for this). | | now i am confused. | care to elaborate? http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/openmoko-kernel/2008-November/006894.html - -Andy -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkkv1K8ACgkQOjLpvpq7dMrmPQCfdxdU3PzJUA6ZTa2UqmTuuaGi daQAn025CJT5rJWxTO1nUQWiQRTllZgL =ovml -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [OT]Software patents end? ??:) light at the end of tunnel
| but it's kind of on-topic you know with the Android image | getting recooked for this). | | now i am confused. | care to elaborate? http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/openmoko-kernel/2008-November/006894.html well, that's the starting point -- but how is the discussion about flac vs ogg vs wav and loss of analog audio quality while put on cd related to android or openmoko, ie any topic the list is designed for? ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [OT]Software patents end? ??:) light at the end of tunnel
On 28 Nov 2008, at 11:06, Sean McNeil wrote: ... I'd like to point out also that the CD source is already lossy in that it is a digital representation of analog signals. Recording companies, however, compensate for this and work to make the sound output from a CD player as ideal as possible, I understood otherwise: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loudness_war Google loudness war for many other posts on the subject - many of these posts are very readable and are complaints from genuine music- lovers disappointed with deteriorating audio quality on new releases. I don't listen to music so much these days - I've just gotten out of the habit of it, I guess. But I have fond memories of the very early 1990s, when CD was still the medium of audiophile choice, and the argument against vinyl still raged. I would kick back with a Jimi Hendrix remaster and pick out individual instruments to appreciate as part of the whole. Each was pure and remarkable - or perhaps that was just the spliff - but when I read about how the record companies are reducing the dynamic range of the albums they now publish I wonder if the same experience would be possible. Stroller. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [OT]Software patents end? ??:) light at the end of tunnel
Dale Maggee wrote: Denis Johnson wrote: On Fri, Nov 28, 2008 at 6:59 PM, Dale Maggee [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: * It's my Hard drive that doesn't support FLAC! If I used flac, my music library (I guess mp3 collection will soon become a misnomer!) would be *enormous*! Yes, I realise it's lossless etc etc, but 320kpbs mp3s are close enough for me. I understand and agree that from a quality pov MP3 @ 320kpbs is sufficient for most, and the amount of space required for your library matters, but I was under the impression that FLAC is also a compressed format. However I must admit I'm not sure how it compares to MP3 @ 320kpbs cheers Denis FLAC *is* compressed, but it's lossless compression, meaning that there is no change to the sound when you encode it to FLAC, Whereas when you encode to MP3 or ogg, you're losing audio information. I'd like to point out also that the CD source is already lossy in that it is a digital representation of analog signals. Recording companies, however, compensate for this and work to make the sound output from a CD player as ideal as possible, Usually it's not noticable, and the higher bitrate you choose the less you lose, but there is a difference. Personally, I can't hear the difference between an audio CD and a 320kbps mp3 on my equipment, but ymmv. In terms of file size, FLAC is bigger than 320kbps (not sure exactly how much bigger, as I don't have much experience with flac, but It's substantially bigger). If you have unlimited HDD space and really care about audio quality, FLAC is the way to go. If you want some free HDD space and decent sounding stuff, 320kbps mp3s (or, more precisely, since abandoning mp3 is the whole point of the discussion, the ogg equivalent of a 320kbps mp3 - I haven't figured out how ogg's quality scale thing works yet) are a very reasonable compromise, and if you can hear the difference it pretty much means you're a) using expensive equipment and b) a freak of nature. ;) But really it all comes down to personal taste. If you have a nice big HDD, you might even want to encode everything in FLAC and then re-encode it at 256kb for burning CDs for use in your car / mp3 player / clock radio / fridge / whatever... -Dale ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [OT]Software patents end? ??:) light at the end of tunnel
with all due respect i'd like to point out that this is now _totally_ off topic (and the issue of loss / lossless compression has been discussed elsewhere in extenso). seeing the huge number of traffic the list generates already it would be very kind of you to discuss the issue of music and compression somewhere else. thanks ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [OT]Software patents end? ??:) light at the end of tunnel
Denis Johnson wrote: On Fri, Nov 28, 2008 at 6:59 PM, Dale Maggee [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: * It's my Hard drive that doesn't support FLAC! If I used flac, my music library (I guess mp3 collection will soon become a misnomer!) would be *enormous*! Yes, I realise it's lossless etc etc, but 320kpbs mp3s are close enough for me. I understand and agree that from a quality pov MP3 @ 320kpbs is sufficient for most, and the amount of space required for your library matters, but I was under the impression that FLAC is also a compressed format. However I must admit I'm not sure how it compares to MP3 @ 320kpbs cheers Denis FLAC *is* compressed, but it's lossless compression, meaning that there is no change to the sound when you encode it to FLAC, Whereas when you encode to MP3 or ogg, you're losing audio information. Usually it's not noticable, and the higher bitrate you choose the less you lose, but there is a difference. Personally, I can't hear the difference between an audio CD and a 320kbps mp3 on my equipment, but ymmv. In terms of file size, FLAC is bigger than 320kbps (not sure exactly how much bigger, as I don't have much experience with flac, but It's substantially bigger). If you have unlimited HDD space and really care about audio quality, FLAC is the way to go. If you want some free HDD space and decent sounding stuff, 320kbps mp3s (or, more precisely, since abandoning mp3 is the whole point of the discussion, the ogg equivalent of a 320kbps mp3 - I haven't figured out how ogg's quality scale thing works yet) are a very reasonable compromise, and if you can hear the difference it pretty much means you're a) using expensive equipment and b) a freak of nature. ;) But really it all comes down to personal taste. If you have a nice big HDD, you might even want to encode everything in FLAC and then re-encode it at 256kb for burning CDs for use in your car / mp3 player / clock radio / fridge / whatever... -Dale ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [OT]Software patents end? ??:) light at the end of tunnel
On Fri, Nov 28, 2008 at 6:59 PM, Dale Maggee [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: * It's my Hard drive that doesn't support FLAC! If I used flac, my music library (I guess mp3 collection will soon become a misnomer!) would be *enormous*! Yes, I realise it's lossless etc etc, but 320kpbs mp3s are close enough for me. I understand and agree that from a quality pov MP3 @ 320kpbs is sufficient for most, and the amount of space required for your library matters, but I was under the impression that FLAC is also a compressed format. However I must admit I'm not sure how it compares to MP3 @ 320kpbs cheers Denis ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [OT]Software patents end? ??:) light at the end of tunnel
Stroller wrote: On 28 Nov 2008, at 11:06, Sean McNeil wrote: ... I'd like to point out also that the CD source is already lossy in that it is a digital representation of analog signals. Recording companies, however, compensate for this and work to make the sound output from a CD player as ideal as possible, I understood otherwise: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loudness_war Google loudness war for many other posts on the subject - many of these posts are very readable and are complaints from genuine music- lovers disappointed with deteriorating audio quality on new releases. I don't listen to music so much these days - I've just gotten out of the habit of it, I guess. But I have fond memories of the very early 1990s, when CD was still the medium of audiophile choice, and the argument against vinyl still raged. I would kick back with a Jimi Hendrix remaster and pick out individual instruments to appreciate as part of the whole. Each was pure and remarkable - or perhaps that was just the spliff - but when I read about how the record companies are reducing the dynamic range of the albums they now publish I wonder if the same experience would be possible. Ah, now we are talking about opinion of ideal ;) Yes, I agree with all you have said, but the interpretation of ideal for record companies is to appeal to the largest body of consumers and they are marketing it that way. Kids want it loud. Back on topic, my point is you are starting with a lossy format to begin with even if you use FLAC. What really matters is how it sounds to an individual and the type of device you are using, quality of headset, etc. With choices, a user can see what he/she can tolerate and determine a reasonable compression to get the most music on a device. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [OT]Software patents end? ??:) light at the end of tunnel
On Thu, November 27, 2008 7:06 am, Denis Johnson wrote: ... Preferably using something like http://www.exactaudiocopy.de/ (if someone knows a Linux equivalent please chime in) The linux equivalent is cdparanoia. Like EAC it will produce bit perfect rips of audio CDs. It is a command line program If you want a GUI, then you can use Grip. It is a GTK based program that automates the whole process of ripping, track listing lookups, and transcoding to your prefered compressed format. If you have a big stack of CDs to rip, then you can easily sit there using your computer for other things, and feed in a new CD every few minutes. -- David Pottage Error compiling committee.c To many arguments to function. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [OT]Software patents end? ??:) light at the end of tunnel
On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 8:09 AM, Dale Maggee [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote: On this note, can anybody point me to a piece of software which will mass-convert all my mp3s to ogg at the press of a button? It would need to preserve all my ID3 Tags etc. We're talking thousands of files / gigabytes of data here... Be aware though, that due to the lossy nature of these formats, no matter what encoding settings you choose, this will always result in lower quality music than your mp3s. -- Dylan Type faster. Use Dvorak: http://dvzine.org ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [OT]Software patents end? ??:) light at the end of tunnel
mp3 is also a lossy format. so other formats are not lower quality. The thing is, converting from one format to another is also a lossy operation itself. So if you convert an ogg music to mp3, you may also end up with slightly worse file. On Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 4:19 PM, Dylan Semler [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote: On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 8:09 AM, Dale Maggee [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote: On this note, can anybody point me to a piece of software which will mass-convert all my mp3s to ogg at the press of a button? It would need to preserve all my ID3 Tags etc. We're talking thousands of files / gigabytes of data here... Be aware though, that due to the lossy nature of these formats, no matter what encoding settings you choose, this will always result in lower quality music than your mp3s. -- Dylan Type faster. Use Dvorak: http://dvzine.org ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- - Atilla Filiz Eindhoven University of Technology Embedded Systems, Master's Programme ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [OT]Software patents end? ??:) light at the end of tunnel
On Thu, Nov 27, 2008 at 9:08 AM, Atilla Filiz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: mp3 is also a lossy format. so other formats are not lower quality. The thing is, converting from one format to another is also a lossy operation itself. So if you convert an ogg music to mp3, you may also end up with slightly worse file. If I may add, I recommend that your music collection should be ripped and archived from CD using FLAC http://flac.sourceforge.net/. Preferably using something like http://www.exactaudiocopy.de/ (if someone knows a Linux equivalent please chime in) Only if your device does not support FLAC playback, convert from FLAC to whatever is best for the device. Although I don't know if the FR supports FLAC, does anyone know ? cheers Denis ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [OT]Software patents end? ??:) light at the end of tunnel
I think this movement will apply on newly-legalizing patents only, it will be too much counterforce against it. Patents is vital for software giants, it's just a basis of their market activity and relevancy. As of recent MP3 issue, open-source community can definitely apply just a little bit more willingness and forget about deprecated formats in favour of new ones. If there's a feeling among people like MP3 is a safe bay and Ogg-Vorbis/LAME/etc is uncertainty, it can be overcome easily. 2008/11/25 David Reyes Samblas Martinez [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Dear all, Is a little bit offtopic but due recent mp2/mp3 fight against pirat... sorry Sysvel, maybe is interesting to spread this little bit of hope to the Openmoko community Trough a local FOSS-friendly news site[1] I read there is a 180 degrees in Software pattent policy in US pattent office , it can invalidate almost ALL Software patents aviable. Yes, seems a Fools day joke but Slashdot also has articles about this here[2] and here[3]. I'm very excited, but is too late night for a in depth read of legal mambo jambo , may be someone with more legal skills can assure that is so awesome as it seems [1]http://www.barrapunto.org [2]http://yro.slashdot.org/yro/08/07/24/1458215.shtml [3]http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/11/24/1713259 ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [OT]Software patents end? ??:) light at the end of tunnel
On Monday 24 November 2008, David Reyes Samblas Martinez wrote: Dear all, Is a little bit offtopic but due recent mp2/mp3 fight against pirat... sorry Sysvel, maybe is interesting to spread this little bit of hope to the Openmoko community Trough a local FOSS-friendly news site[1] I read there is a 180 degrees in Software pattent policy in US pattent office , it can invalidate almost ALL Software patents aviable. Yes, seems a Fools day joke but Slashdot also has articles about this here[2] and here[3]. I'm very excited, but is too late night for a in depth read of legal mambo jambo , may be someone with more legal skills can assure that is so awesome as it seems Groklaw has a series of articles on this, plus many links to other opinions in the Newspicks section. It is certainly a step in the right direction, but how big a step is open to a lot of debate, and will probably need another judgement or two to sort out. [1]http://www.barrapunto.org [2]http://yro.slashdot.org/yro/08/07/24/1458215.shtml [3]http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/11/24/1713259 ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [OT]Software patents end? ??:) light at the end of tunnel
Evgeny Karyakin wrote: I think this movement will apply on newly-legalizing patents only, it will be too much counterforce against it. Patents is vital for software giants, it's just a basis of their market activity and relevancy. As of recent MP3 issue, open-source community can definitely apply just a little bit more willingness and forget about deprecated formats in favour of new ones. On this note, can anybody point me to a piece of software which will mass-convert all my mp3s to ogg at the press of a button? It would need to preserve all my ID3 Tags etc. We're talking thousands of files / gigabytes of data here... Thanks, -D ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [OT]Software patents end? ??:) light at the end of tunnel
Hi there, Evgeny Karyakin wrote: I think this movement will apply on newly-legalizing patents only, it will be too much counterforce against it. Patents is vital for software giants, it's just a basis of their market activity and relevancy. As of recent MP3 issue, open-source community can definitely apply just a little bit more willingness and forget about deprecated formats in favour of new ones. On this note, can anybody point me to a piece of software which will mass-convert all my mp3s to ogg at the press of a button? It would need to preserve all my ID3 Tags etc. We're talking thousands of files / gigabytes of data here... If you're using *nix, a nice programm called soundkonverter (as the name implies, it needs the kde libs) comes to mind. There are probably similiar programs based on gtk or the like around, though - searching freshmeat.net might help :) Thanks, -D Hth, Konstantin ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [OT]Software patents end? ??:) light at the end of tunnel
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Dale Maggee ha scritto: On this note, can anybody point me to a piece of software which will mass-convert all my mp3s to ogg at the press of a button? It would need to preserve all my ID3 Tags etc. We're talking thousands of files / gigabytes of data here... I used oggconvert, it is command line but work very well. Ps. before to use, try with a little ammount of files to undestand well how to use all the options. Best regards Michele Renda -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkksEXIACgkQSIAU/I6SkT3uZACcDdDCC56qbvUObweoEv61K9z6 un4An3tX31y/gc0C86lCIS5/bJSVIcxD =R/SR -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
