Re: [openmoko-announce] OpenMoko Challenges
You have 845 people subscribed to this list who all support what you do 100%. Delays just make us want one more. All interested developers can purchase Neos starting late March. Do you have to be a developer to purchase in March? I am going to try to learn GTK+, but I doubt I will call myself a developer by then. Keep up the great work. -ryan On Feb 12, 2007, at 3:17 AM, Sean Moss-Pultz wrote: Dear Community, We, the OpenMoko Team, have promised exciting news about our project today. We have some information that we think you will like very much, but also have some news we like less. Let us first address the unpleasant part, before turning to the more cheerful part of this announcement. After we announced OpenMoko last November, we were flooded with emails. Most were absolutely encouraging, thanking us for undertaking this project. And out of the many thousands of emails, only two requests came again and again: Where's bluetooth? And, Why doesn't it have WiFi? (We really do read _everything_ you write.) Originally, bluetooth was in our product spec, however, this was left out of our schematics in an early stage. At the time we were really hurting for resources internally, so we did not push. Making changes to a product while in the RD stages can be quite painful. But after all the incredible demand, post-November, we felt it had to be done. We had a string of bad luck that really hurt our productivity. Each hardware revision takes at least one month of time. Each month without stable hardware means serious delays for software. One time we received the wrong memory from our vendors and we failed to catch this before production. Another time some key components ran out of supply. And as if all that wasn't bad enough, our baseband leader's mom died leaving a gaping wound in both his heart and our hardware team. But we moved on. Little by little our hardware started to come together. Around the middle of January we thought we finally found a stable revision. At this point, our software was seriously behind schedule, but as Alan Cox once said, Free Software is always late. January's announcement bought us more time to fix some hardware issues still plaguing us. We also modified the position of the bluetooth module to make way for a JTAG port (we're trying our best to be hacker friendly). This required our vendor to design a special FPC to connect the module to our board. Something on the order of 3 weeks would be required to complete this simple task. One thousand little Murphy's seems to be what we have running around teasing this project. Less than a 7% yield rate is all that we got out of this new cable; not even enough to meet our Phase 0 demand. Needless to say, it was an incredibly depressing day for all of us. Tormented is really the only word that we can think of now to describe how we are feeling as a team, forced with making this decision: Do we delay again, wait for the hardware and software to be ready, or do we just open up now as promised without reaching our key milestone? Each of us, in different ways, have struggled with this decision for the past five days. We're all extremely demanding of ourselves when it comes to the quality of our work. Nearly every minute of our waking lives have been spent on this project. So to be at this state, now, is really hard on us. Mickey Lauer, one of our core developers sent an email, only a few hours ago, that put things back into perspective for us. He said, A lot of people will be disappointed by the state of the software, but -- I may be a dreamer -- I prefer rough and truly open solutions (where I have the chance to help shaping the future) over cool, but already finished and closed solutions (where all I can do is take the platform as it is or NOT.) As planned, we are going to open this project up at this point. Within three days of this announcement you will all have access to our source code, Wiki, and Bugzilla. Hopefully you can understand why we're at this less-than-ideal state. But more importantly, we hope you understand that opening our code now, and letting you join us in making this dream of an open phone platform come true, is more important for us than mere appearances. Regarding our Neo1973 hardware, we will send out the first batch of phase 0 phones out around the end of this month. Sorry for not being able to give an absolute date. Next week is Chinese New Year (we're in Asia remember) and _everyone_ stops working for a full week. Having our newly designed FPC built before is really wishful thinking. All interested developers can purchase Neos starting late March. Please understand that phase 0 is a system of checks and balances, so it simply cannot be rushed. We want to get the framework right, the first time around. Hopefully you all can live with the slight delays in our schedule. We're all super excited to be cranking again and eagerly await sending
Re: [openmoko-announce] OpenMoko Challenges
I have the same problem, I don't feel to be called a developper. I'am a network guy (Open source first, but network). So I propose that all members of the Open Moko mailing lists may have a priority on purchassing a phone for testing/troubleshooting (of course) if theire is some devices left after develpppers. :):):) Best regards, and congratulation to the all team, step one is almost completed Foucault (In a hurry to free his phone) On 2/12/07, Ryan Kline [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You have 845 people subscribed to this list who all support what you do 100%. Delays just make us want one more. *All interested developers can purchase Neos starting late March.* Do you have to be a developer to purchase in March? I am going to try to learn GTK+, but I doubt I will call myself a developer by then. Keep up the great work. -ryan On Feb 12, 2007, at 3:17 AM, Sean Moss-Pultz wrote: Dear Community, We, the OpenMoko Team, have promised exciting news about our project today. We have some information that we think you will like very much, but also have some news we like less. Let us first address the unpleasant part, before turning to the more cheerful part of this announcement. After we announced OpenMoko last November, we were flooded with emails. Most were absolutely encouraging, thanking us for undertaking this project. And out of the many thousands of emails, only two requests came again and again: Where's bluetooth? And, Why doesn't it have WiFi? (We really do read _everything_ you write.) Originally, bluetooth was in our product spec, however, this was left out of our schematics in an early stage. At the time we were really hurting for resources internally, so we did not push. Making changes to a product while in the RD stages can be quite painful. But after all the incredible demand, post-November, we felt it had to be done. We had a string of bad luck that really hurt our productivity. Each hardware revision takes at least one month of time. Each month without stable hardware means serious delays for software. One time we received the wrong memory from our vendors and we failed to catch this before production. Another time some key components ran out of supply. And as if all that wasn't bad enough, our baseband leader's mom died leaving a gaping wound in both his heart and our hardware team. But we moved on. Little by little our hardware started to come together. Around the middle of January we thought we finally found a stable revision. At this point, our software was seriously behind schedule, but as Alan Cox once said, Free Software is always late. January's announcement bought us more time to fix some hardware issues still plaguing us. We also modified the position of the bluetooth module to make way for a JTAG port (we're trying our best to be hacker friendly). This required our vendor to design a special FPC to connect the module to our board. Something on the order of 3 weeks would be required to complete this simple task. One thousand little Murphy's seems to be what we have running around teasing this project. Less than a 7% yield rate is all that we got out of this new cable; not even enough to meet our Phase 0 demand. Needless to say, it was an incredibly depressing day for all of us. Tormented is really the only word that we can think of now to describe how we are feeling as a team, forced with making this decision: Do we delay again, wait for the hardware and software to be ready, or do we just open up now as promised without reaching our key milestone? Each of us, in different ways, have struggled with this decision for the past five days. We're all extremely demanding of ourselves when it comes to the quality of our work. Nearly every minute of our waking lives have been spent on this project. So to be at this state, now, is really hard on us. Mickey Lauer, one of our core developers sent an email, only a few hours ago, that put things back into perspective for us. He said, A lot of people will be disappointed by the state of the software, but -- I may be a dreamer -- I prefer rough and truly open solutions (where I have the chance to help shaping the future) over cool, but already finished and closed solutions (where all I can do is take the platform as it is or NOT.) As planned, we are going to open this project up at this point. Within three days of this announcement you will all have access to our source code, Wiki, and Bugzilla. Hopefully you can understand why we're at this less-than-ideal state. But more importantly, we hope you understand that opening our code now, and letting you join us in making this dream of an open phone platform come true, is more important for us than mere appearances. Regarding our Neo1973 hardware, we will send out the first batch of phase 0 phones out around the end of this month. Sorry for not being able to give an absolute date. Next week is Chinese New Year (we're in Asia remember) and _everyone_ stops working
Re: [openmoko-announce] OpenMoko Challenges
So I propose that all members of the Open Moko mailing lists may have a priority on purchassing a phone for testing/troubleshooting (of course) if theire is some devices left after develpppers. :):):) I'll drink to that (when i'm 21). Sounds like a really (clears throat) great idea. -ryan___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
You don't have to wait 8 years ; ) Re: [openmoko-announce] OpenMoko Challenges
Salve Ryan! On Mon, 12 Feb 2007, Ryan Kline wrote: So I propose that all members of the Open Moko mailing lists may have a priority on purchassing a phone for testing/troubleshooting (of course) if theire is some devices left after develpppers. :):):) I'll drink to that (when i'm 21). You will wait 8 years to do this? No I don't want to push you to drink alcohol in early years - I just want to relativise some statements like in the FOSDEM threat, the Friday Beer Event and statments like I'll buy you a beer... For community is drinking the same thing not so important, or when a community is based only on this - this community does worth nothing... So when we have talked about spending drinks each other, because we are looking forward to meet Sean, the other developer and each other... and you have someday the chance to meet someone of us active with OpenMoko - don't doubt that would include non alcoholic drinks as well - so don't wait 8 years to drink to that ;) So 10 Ideas from a Non-Developer was your first mail on this list, right? ;) http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-January/001210.html Then is your first ideas 1. (sort of like boost mobile but,) Locate your buddies using GPS on a map system. Possibly non-neo phones too... IMHO a remakable one, because it include the wish with a good interaction of OpenMoko/Neo1973 with non OpenMoko devices - I share the importances that OpenMoko will make communications/ interaction also with non OpenMoko users more easy and that some cool ideas could impress non-OpenMoko users and motivate/convice them to choose OpenMoko/Neo1973 themself - because OpeMoko2OpenMoko communication will be even more powerfull with much more possibilities. Getting ideas and feedback from you about the zeitgeist¹ of kids of your age will be interesting and helpfull for all of us - very nice that you become active on this list ;) Cheers², rob ¹zeitgeist, a word that came from German into English: spirit of the age ² of course non alcoholic ;) ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [openmoko-announce] OpenMoko Challenges
On 2/12/07, Ryan Kline [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You have 845 people subscribed to this list who all support what you do 100%. Delays just make us want one more. All interested developers can purchase Neos starting late March. Do you have to be a developer to purchase in March? I am going to try to learn GTK+, but I doubt I will call myself a developer by then. No, every one can go buy one, just understand that the software on the device is still under revision at that point and we will hit some sharp edges I'm sure. Don't expect a 100% foolproof device that'll do everything perfectly, and you'll do just fine. :) -- Marcel de Jong ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: You don't have to wait 8 years ; ) Re: [openmoko-announce] OpenMoko Challenges
That does seem to make more sense. I guess I should have said, I'll drink [juice] to that! -ryan On Feb 12, 2007, at 3:07 PM, ROB wrote: Not that it matters all that much, but I think he was telling you that you didn't have to wait 8 years to drink to the project because you can always toast something with a non-alcoholic drink. I don't think he was trying to encourage you to drink alcohol, he was just saying that if you have the chance to meet up with people associated with the project sometime, they would probably be quite happy to have you toast the project with them with a non-alcoholic drink. On 2/12/07, Ryan Kline [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Actually, I will wait. People who drink before they are 21 are 4 times more likely to become alcoholics, plus, I get 5,000 USD +Interest if I make it til I am 21. I think I will wait. I do understand that this community drinks, but I do not feel pressured to do the same. Thank you for complementing my first post, please note I have also mad many others and even answered a question. (http:// lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-February/003151.html) I do hope that I will be an asset to the project because of my age. I am very interested in technology and I am keen on what kids here in the states go crazy over. For exaple, the Apple Stores here are packed non-stop with teens. I also would love to see some kind of Push-To-Talk or Mass-Text-Messaging included in OpenMoko. I have found myself in many situations where I would like to know if any of my friends are at the mall. I also am very good with videography and would lend my services to OpenMoko if they would pay for my plane ticket :-) I even tried to get a discount for being the youngest on the forum. (http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-February/ 003155.html) I guess that didn't work very well. -ryan ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: You don't have to wait 8 years ; ) Re: [openmoko-announce] OpenMoko Challenges
Salve Ryan! Ryan Kline schrieb am Montag, den 12. Februar 2007 um 14:54h: Actually, I will wait. This is fine. ;) But I fear, you got me wrong. I think I will wait. I do understand that this community drinks, but I do not feel pressured to do the same. and [when] you have someday the chance to meet someone of us active with OpenMoko - don't doubt that would include non alcoholic drinks as well - so don't [have to] wait 8 years to drink to that ;) So even when we are writing about drinking on a meeting or just virtual together e.g. when the first phones are out - you don't have to wait to salute/drink to that for 8 years - just chooce some non-alcoholic drink and join. I also am very good with videography and would lend my services to OpenMoko if they would pay for my plane ticket :-) I hope Seans small presentation at the FOSDEM will be recorded by the FOSDEM people - good point - I should ask them, I could help them... think you was a bit kidding with the plane ticket, right? But I'm shure there are more ways that you could bring in your skills and ideas. I even tried to get a discount for being the youngest on the forum. (http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-February/ 003155.html) I guess that didn't work very well. But your answer about the mailinglist statistic was cool :) You have read that Sean and the others of his team are *very* busy at the moment, so when the biggest problems solved and it is clear, when the phase-1 can start it will be a better moment trying to ask for discount for being a schoolboy or student or asking about upgrade (price reduction) for buying neo1973-version2-phase1 in 2008 after already buying neo1973-version1-phase1 this year. ;) Greetings, rob PS: Small hint: Your Email hasn't a working References: or In-Reply-To: in its header, so no email client could put it into the right thread. Please check if you can answer with Referneces. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
You don't have to wait 8 years ; ) Re: [openmoko-announce] OpenMoko Challenges
Sorry, I didn't understand. Where is FOSDEM? I doubt I will be able to attend any events unless they are in Dallas. I have too much going on in school and I don't really feel like I am part of the project. Thanks, ryan ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [openmoko-announce] OpenMoko Challenges
Sorry to ask this, but which hardware features will finally be integrated in this version? - bluetooth? - wifi (you mentioned it)? Thanks for clearing up my mind :) Florent ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
