Re: Custom case designs...
On Tuesday 03 July 2007 19:58:10 Tim Newsom wrote: Or how about this... Cases from recycled materials.. Neo1973.. Free your phone, open your horizons, save the world... Good for you, great for the environment. Swiss PET recycling organization currently has a campaign like that: Don't throw your $devicePossiblyMadeFromPET out the window. There is one with MP3 players and I think one with phones, even ;-) pgpuqwFR6wu7r.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Custom case designs...
First they wil lthink that it's a rip-off of the iPod customisation. Then they will think that it's not useful, not functional, only thrown-away money. Then they will see how cool it looks at their buddy's neo, and will buy one for themselves ;) On 7/3/07, Tim Newsom [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have been thinking a little more about this and I struck upon an idea... What if you could buy a custom case with a custom message on it. I am not talking about painted messages but letters and shapes cast into the plastic shell. Raised, sunk, custom fonts etc. Naturally we can't just replicate the exact neo1973 shell without permission, but maybe something like it and removing the FIC logo (unless we get permission to use it) or the like. This is more of a vanity thing than a functional thing.. But what do people think of it? --Tim ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- My corner of the web: http://ramsesoriginal.wordpress.com My dream, my world: http://abenu.wordpress.com ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Custom case designs...
cool idea! I want to have one with the GNU logo on the back. :) ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Custom case designs...
On Tue, 2007-07-03 at 16:52 +0200, ramsesoriginal wrote: First they wil lthink that it's a rip-off of the iPod customisation. Then they will think that it's not useful, not functional, only thrown-away money. Then they will see how cool it looks at their buddy's neo, and will buy one for themselves ;) On 7/3/07, Tim Newsom [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have been thinking a little more about this and I struck upon an idea... What if you could buy a custom case with a custom message on it. I am not talking about painted messages but letters and shapes cast into the plastic shell. Raised, sunk, custom fonts etc. Naturally we can't just replicate the exact neo1973 shell without permission, but maybe something like it and removing the FIC logo (unless we get permission to use it) or the like. This is more of a vanity thing than a functional thing.. But what do people think of it? --Tim Some of the guys here at work (actually most of them) seem to hate the rounded sides/corners of the phone - any plans maybe on making it rectangular? ps. Im an engineer - I dont care what it looks like :) E-Mail disclaimer: http://www.sunspace.co.za/emaildisclaimer.htm ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Custom case designs...
Hans van der Merwe schrieb: On Tue, 2007-07-03 at 16:52 +0200, ramsesoriginal wrote: Some of the guys here at work (actually most of them) seem to hate the rounded sides/corners of the phone - any plans maybe on making it rectangular? ps. Im an engineer - I dont care what it looks like :) these are exactly the reactions i got from my friends.. specially as the mainbord seems rectangular, i wouldn't like to see it with this rounded top and bottom.. ..and all i want is 3G.. :( ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Custom case designs...
On Tue, 3 Jul 2007 8:59, no_use wrote: these are exactly the reactions i got from my friends.. specially as the mainbord seems rectangular, i wouldn't like to see it with this rounded top and bottom.. ..and all i want is 3G.. :( So add case design ideas to the wiki where previously noted. I guess we will see what's possible once we get them in our hands and all that. --Tim ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Custom case designs...
Hi, On 7/3/07, Ben Burdette [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Case modding for phones, cool. Maybe we should have like transparent (see-through) casing. Why do we need closed cases for open hardware and software? SK -- Shakthi Kannan http://www.shakthimaan.com ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Custom case designs...
Maybe we should have like transparent (see-through) casing. Ah, but transparent plastic is always more brittle than coloured plastics... I would hate my Neo cracking as easily as a CD case... On Tuesday 03 July 2007 11:35:57 Shakthi Kannan wrote: Hi, On 7/3/07, Ben Burdette [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Case modding for phones, cool. Maybe we should have like transparent (see-through) casing. Why do we need closed cases for open hardware and software? SK -- Jeffrey Thomas Sierra Bravo 952.948.1211 x1046 952.567.6346 Direct www.sierra-bravo.com 9201 East Bloomington Freeway Suite CC Bloomington MN 55420 ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Custom case designs...
I've been designing cases for the homebrew mobile club, posting the design files on the wiki and producing them on a 3D printer. http://www.hbmobile.org/wiki/index.php?title=Portrait_oriented_case I can get these individually made for $40 or so each at http://www.techshop.ws a custom case for the FIC 1973 hardware would be smaller and cost less (its $10/cubic inch). The CAD software I used didn't really handle embossing text into the case very easily, and I think its better to use a laser cutter/etcher to write vector and raster patterns into the surface afterwards. The laser is 1200 dpi, and the 3D printer is more like 100dpi resolution. You can write anything you want onto just about anything solid that doesn't release toxic fumes with a 45W CO2 laser. (e.g. you can't write on foam and PVC releases Chlorine :-) It will etch metal, but can't cut through it. If FIC release mechanical design spec's for the internal dimensions it would be easier to wrap a case around it. Adrian On 7/3/07, Hans van der Merwe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, 2007-07-03 at 16:52 +0200, ramsesoriginal wrote: First they wil lthink that it's a rip-off of the iPod customisation. Then they will think that it's not useful, not functional, only thrown-away money. Then they will see how cool it looks at their buddy's neo, and will buy one for themselves ;) On 7/3/07, Tim Newsom [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have been thinking a little more about this and I struck upon an idea... What if you could buy a custom case with a custom message on it. I am not talking about painted messages but letters and shapes cast into the plastic shell. Raised, sunk, custom fonts etc. Naturally we can't just replicate the exact neo1973 shell without permission, but maybe something like it and removing the FIC logo (unless we get permission to use it) or the like. This is more of a vanity thing than a functional thing.. But what do people think of it? --Tim Some of the guys here at work (actually most of them) seem to hate the rounded sides/corners of the phone - any plans maybe on making it rectangular? ps. Im an engineer - I dont care what it looks like :) E-Mail disclaimer: http://www.sunspace.co.za/emaildisclaimer.htm ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Custom case designs...
There are several types of clear plastic which could be used to fulfill this idea.. Both as plastic injection and liquid casting material. --Tim On Tue, 3 Jul 2007 9:50, Shakthi Kannan wrote: Hi, On 7/3/07, Ben Burdette [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Case modding for phones, cool. Maybe we should have like transparent (see-through) casing. Why do we need closed cases for open hardware and software? SK -- Shakthi Kannan http://www.shakthimaan.com --Tim ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Custom case designs...
That's not necessarily true.. Look at plastic bottles. Clear soda bottles are fairly strong and not nearly as brittle as some other clear plastics. Plus, that plastic is useful as injection material. Plus, if it were cheap enough to get new cases, most people would not care if they dropped or scratched one for a while as it would be easily replaced. --Tim On Tue, 3 Jul 2007 10:37, Jeffrey Thomas wrote: Maybe we should have like transparent (see-through) casing. Ah, but transparent plastic is always more brittle than coloured plastics... I would hate my Neo cracking as easily as a CD case... On Tuesday 03 July 2007 11:35:57 Shakthi Kannan wrote: Hi, On 7/3/07, Ben Burdette [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Case modding for phones, cool. Maybe we should have like transparent (see-through) casing. Why do we need closed cases for open hardware and software? SK -- Jeffrey Thomas Sierra Bravo 952.948.1211 x1046 952.567.6346 Direct www.sierra-bravo.com 9201 East Bloomington Freeway Suite CC Bloomington MN 55420 --Tim ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Custom case designs...
Clear soda bottles are fairly strong and not nearly as brittle as some other clear plastics. True enough, and i stand corrected. Their flexibility may even be a benefit -- i drop my current phone often enough and it survives; i would hope for something similar on my Neo when I get it. Maybe some of the extra space (and a flexible plastic) could help to cushion the device during impact from a fall. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Custom case designs...
Oh... but doesn't PETN have some issues with long-term durability when exposed to UV? On Jul 3, 2007, at 11:04 AM, Jeffrey Thomas wrote: Clear soda bottles are fairly strong and not nearly as brittle as some other clear plastics. True enough, and i stand corrected. Their flexibility may even be a benefit -- i drop my current phone often enough and it survives; i would hope for something similar on my Neo when I get it. Maybe some of the extra space (and a flexible plastic) could help to cushion the device during impact from a fall. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Custom case designs...
I would be very interested in a tamper-proof case with separate branding. For phones given to low-wage employees and/or teenagers, this is a requirement (tamper proof meaning seals would have to be broken to open the case). Etching on the back of the case would include reward/delivery instructions for recovery of lost phones. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Custom case designs...
If you're exposing your phone to that much UV you'll probably have problems with other components before the case. PET transparent enough to UV that it's the bottle of choice for solar water disinfection. http://www.sodis.ch/Text2002/T-Howdoesitwork.htm On Tuesday 03 July 2007 19:48, Matthew S. Hamrick wrote: Oh... but doesn't PETN have some issues with long-term durability when exposed to UV? On Jul 3, 2007, at 11:04 AM, Jeffrey Thomas wrote: Clear soda bottles are fairly strong and not nearly as brittle as some other clear plastics. True enough, and i stand corrected. Their flexibility may even be a benefit -- i drop my current phone often enough and it survives; i would hope for something similar on my Neo when I get it. Maybe some of the extra space (and a flexible plastic) could help to cushion the device during impact from a fall. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Custom case designs... (the business perspective)
Also.. to follow up on what Adrian recently said.. The tech shop also has a CNC milling machine. I'm no expert, but I believe that the idea is that you put a CAD file in one side and take out a completed part out the other. So... if you have the CAD files for a case, you could feed them into the CNC milling machine instead of the 3D printer and viola! aluminum case. Jim Newton at the TechShop also mentioned he's looking into getting an injection molding machine. I've seen a couple of these sorta 1 shot injection molders. You use the CNC machine to create your mold, then you pour plastic pellets in the top, press a button and an electric motor turns the screw that forces the semi-molten pellets into the mold. So.. you could have any number of different cases made for your Neo. My back of the envelope calculations for the cost are: Fixed Costs: Mold Design Time5h $0 Mold Milling Time 3h $75 Variable Costs: (per production run) Mold setup 1h $10 Variable Costs: (per case) Plastic Pellets (1/10)h $3 So assuming a CAD file for the NEO case were to magically fall out of the sky, perhaps as part of a program to seed a third party ecosystem (*hint*hint* Sean, are you going to be in the bay area soon? *wink*wink*) The cost per case for a production run of 10 and 100 identical cases would be: 10 cases: 9h, $115 100 cases: 18h, $385 Let's say that I'm terribly impressed with myself and I want to pay myself $65 / hr. for my time, the price goes up to: 10 cases: $700 100 cases: $1555 But I'm not going to sell them myself. I'd rather sell them through SparkFun or even GumStix.com (but I don't know if either of these guys would be interested.) So, I'm going to add a little bit of margin. This is a risky business, so I'm adding 35%. 10 cases: $945 100 cases: $2100 Nathan and/or Gordon are going to want a margin as well, but I'm thinking I'm going to offer them a low-risk proposition: just put the SKU on your website and I'll handle the fulfillment. So I'm going to argue them down to 7% margin. So in other words, I'm going to pay them a commission for every case they sell. That fee would be: 10 cases: $65 100 cases: $147 We're not talking about a lot of coin, here. From a business perspective, the reward of $147 for selling 100 isn't that great. It's probably not going to pay for Nathan or Gordon's time to setup the SKU in their system. But there's always eBay... Let's say sales taxes are an additional 8.5%: 10 cases: $86 100 cases: $191 Shipping and handling: 10 cases: $90 100 cases: $900 End Price: 10 cases: $1186 ( $118.60 per case ) 100 cases: $3338 ( $33.38 per case ) So... the question is... a) is it possible to convince Nathan or Gordon to sell these things through their websites for $65 - $147? b) is there actually a demand for 10 or 100 of these after-market cases? c) is there a one size fits all design that will satisfy everyone who wants an after-market case? So, I'm not saying I want to get into the business of making after- market Neo cases, but someone who was thinking about getting into this market would do an analysis just like this. So... if there was a solid demand for 100 cases, it's possible the price could be brought down to about $35-$40. On Jul 3, 2007, at 10:18 AM, Frederic Kettelhoit wrote: 2 points: 1.) Aluminium would be quite cool. I would like to have such a case, too. But the problem is, that the gsm radiowaves are not able to pass the aluminium. Probably that's the same with the GPS and the W-LAN? I don't know. There is mobile phone made by Porsche and - I think - Sagem. It is basically made out of aluminium, but the GSM Processor is mantled with plastic. Quite difficult, but very cool IMHO. Does anyone know, whether there is the possibility to make a case 100% aluminium without making the GSM processor useless? Would be great. 2.) The rounded corners are not very pretty, that is right. In my opinion a phone has to look quite good, it is a lifestyle item. A few people may like the design, but the great majority of people I asked said that they hate these corners (me too). I would buy an ugly but open phone, but many won't. So it would be really really great, if there would be the possibility to change the case. I will try to do it, too, but I am not very familiar with case modding and mobile phone cases in general. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Custom case designs...
Yup. And as Tim points out, if the case only lasts a year, recycle it and get a new one. On Jul 3, 2007, at 12:35 PM, Al Johnson wrote: If you're exposing your phone to that much UV you'll probably have problems with other components before the case. PET transparent enough to UV that it's the bottle of choice for solar water disinfection. http://www.sodis.ch/Text2002/T-Howdoesitwork.htm On Tuesday 03 July 2007 19:48, Matthew S. Hamrick wrote: Oh... but doesn't PETN have some issues with long-term durability when exposed to UV? On Jul 3, 2007, at 11:04 AM, Jeffrey Thomas wrote: Clear soda bottles are fairly strong and not nearly as brittle as some other clear plastics. True enough, and i stand corrected. Their flexibility may even be a benefit -- i drop my current phone often enough and it survives; i would hope for something similar on my Neo when I get it. Maybe some of the extra space (and a flexible plastic) could help to cushion the device during impact from a fall. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Custom case designs... (the dot-org perspective)
But there's another way to think about this... I think if you ran these numbers past a business person in the states they would have all sorts of problems. You're talking about a fair amount of investment for not all that much return. I mean if we knew the Neo was going to sell as many units as the RAZR and the iPhone combined, you would be talking about thousands or tens of thousands of units and it would be easier to make the argument solely on business terms. But... the great thing about the TechShop is users can get their hands dirty building all sorts of fun stuff. So maybe this is more of a project for a user-group instead of a business. If there's anyone out there interested in learning about injection molding, this would be a great project to start with. Jim over at the TechShop is talking about buying an injection molder sometime this summer, so they'll have all the parts needed for a low-volume run soon. In the mean time, interested persons could use the 3D printer to print out new cases for their Neos. I don't know that I would have the time to participate in such an operation, but I suspect that somewhere in the bay area there are enough interested designers / makers that sharing the cost and effort would bring the costs down to something pretty reasonable. Oh... and it would also be easy to laser etch designs on the newly created plastic cases. -Cheers -Matt H. On Jul 3, 2007, at 12:31 PM, Matthew S. Hamrick wrote: Also.. to follow up on what Adrian recently said.. The tech shop also has a CNC milling machine. I'm no expert, but I believe that the idea is that you put a CAD file in one side and take out a completed part out the other. So... if you have the CAD files for a case, you could feed them into the CNC milling machine instead of the 3D printer and viola! aluminum case. Jim Newton at the TechShop also mentioned he's looking into getting an injection molding machine. I've seen a couple of these sorta 1 shot injection molders. You use the CNC machine to create your mold, then you pour plastic pellets in the top, press a button and an electric motor turns the screw that forces the semi-molten pellets into the mold. So.. you could have any number of different cases made for your Neo. My back of the envelope calculations for the cost are: Fixed Costs: Mold Design Time5h $0 Mold Milling Time 3h $75 Variable Costs: (per production run) Mold setup 1h $10 Variable Costs: (per case) Plastic Pellets (1/10)h $3 So assuming a CAD file for the NEO case were to magically fall out of the sky, perhaps as part of a program to seed a third party ecosystem (*hint*hint* Sean, are you going to be in the bay area soon? *wink*wink*) The cost per case for a production run of 10 and 100 identical cases would be: 10 cases: 9h, $115 100 cases: 18h, $385 Let's say that I'm terribly impressed with myself and I want to pay myself $65 / hr. for my time, the price goes up to: 10 cases: $700 100 cases: $1555 But I'm not going to sell them myself. I'd rather sell them through SparkFun or even GumStix.com (but I don't know if either of these guys would be interested.) So, I'm going to add a little bit of margin. This is a risky business, so I'm adding 35%. 10 cases: $945 100 cases: $2100 Nathan and/or Gordon are going to want a margin as well, but I'm thinking I'm going to offer them a low-risk proposition: just put the SKU on your website and I'll handle the fulfillment. So I'm going to argue them down to 7% margin. So in other words, I'm going to pay them a commission for every case they sell. That fee would be: 10 cases: $65 100 cases: $147 We're not talking about a lot of coin, here. From a business perspective, the reward of $147 for selling 100 isn't that great. It's probably not going to pay for Nathan or Gordon's time to setup the SKU in their system. But there's always eBay... Let's say sales taxes are an additional 8.5%: 10 cases: $86 100 cases: $191 Shipping and handling: 10 cases: $90 100 cases: $900 End Price: 10 cases: $1186 ( $118.60 per case ) 100 cases: $3338 ( $33.38 per case ) So... the question is... a) is it possible to convince Nathan or Gordon to sell these things through their websites for $65 - $147? b) is there actually a demand for 10 or 100 of these after-market cases? c) is there a one size fits all design that will satisfy everyone who wants an after-market case? So, I'm not saying I want to get into the business of making after- market Neo cases, but someone who was thinking about getting into this market would do an analysis just like this. So... if there was a solid demand for 100 cases, it's possible the price could be brought down to about $35-$40. On Jul 3, 2007, at 10:18 AM, Frederic Kettelhoit wrote: 2 points: 1.) Aluminium
Re: Custom case designs... (the business perspective)
So... the question is... a) is it possible to convince Nathan or Gordon to sell these things through their websites for $65 - $147? I can sell it through my website: http://www.handheld-linux.com although I currently focus on the European markets only (due to tax and duty complexity). b) is there actually a demand for 10 or 100 of these after-market cases? Depends on the number of total units of the OpenMoko being sold. I would assume 1% after sales as a first rough guess. c) is there a one size fits all design that will satisfy everyone who wants an after-market case? Probably not. I remember that we did have approx. 50 - 100 different custom designs at Siemens mobile phones. Nikolaus Schaller The Handheld-Linux Shop http://www.handheld-linux.com operated by Golden Delicious Computers GmbHCo. KG Buchenstr. 3 D-82041 Oberhaching http://www.goldelico.com Make the customer come back and not the product ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Custom case designs... (the business perspective)
Is it legal to sell these cases? The design may be based in no small part on work done by FIC, who will not be impressed by us stamping on their IP. We don't want to take the piss - they are helping us a lot. Making a few one-offs for ourselves, with no profit is ok, but as soon as we start marketing them, things may change. When he's not so busy, this would be one for sean to enquire about. On 7/4/07, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So... the question is... a) is it possible to convince Nathan or Gordon to sell these things through their websites for $65 - $147? I can sell it through my website: http://www.handheld-linux.com although I currently focus on the European markets only (due to tax and duty complexity). b) is there actually a demand for 10 or 100 of these after-market cases? Depends on the number of total units of the OpenMoko being sold. I would assume 1% after sales as a first rough guess. c) is there a one size fits all design that will satisfy everyone who wants an after-market case? Probably not. I remember that we did have approx. 50 - 100 different custom designs at Siemens mobile phones. Nikolaus Schaller The Handheld-Linux Shop http://www.handheld-linux.com operated by Golden Delicious Computers GmbHCo. KG Buchenstr. 3 D-82041 Oberhaching http://www.goldelico.com Make the customer come back and not the product ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Custom case designs... (the business perspective)
On Tue, 3 Jul 2007 12:56, Matthew S. Hamrick wrote: Also.. to follow up on what Adrian recently said.. The tech shop also has a CNC milling machine. I'm no expert, but I believe that the idea is that you put a CAD file in one side and take out a completed part out the other. So... if you have the CAD files for a case, you could feed them into the CNC milling machine instead of the 3D printer and viola! aluminum case. Jim Newton at the TechShop also mentioned he's looking into getting an injection molding machine. I've seen a couple of these sorta 1 shot injection molders. You use the CNC machine to create your mold, then you pour plastic pellets in the top, press a button and an electric motor turns the screw that forces the semi-molten pellets into the mold. So.. you could have any number of different cases made for your Neo. My back of the envelope calculations for the cost are: Fixed Costs: Mold Design Time5h $0 Mold Milling Time 3h $75 Variable Costs: (per production run) Mold setup 1h $10 Variable Costs: (per case) Plastic Pellets (1/10)h $3 So assuming a CAD file for the NEO case were to magically fall out of the sky, perhaps as part of a program to seed a third party ecosystem (*hint*hint* Sean, are you going to be in the bay area soon? *wink*wink*) The cost per case for a production run of 10 and 100 identical cases would be: 10 cases: 9h, $115 100 cases: 18h, $385 Let's say that I'm terribly impressed with myself and I want to pay myself $65 / hr. for my time, the price goes up to: 10 cases: $700 100 cases: $1555 But I'm not going to sell them myself. I'd rather sell them through SparkFun or even GumStix.com (but I don't know if either of these guys would be interested.) So, I'm going to add a little bit of margin. This is a risky business, so I'm adding 35%. 10 cases: $945 100 cases: $2100 Nathan and/or Gordon are going to want a margin as well, but I'm thinking I'm going to offer them a low-risk proposition: just put the SKU on your website and I'll handle the fulfillment. So I'm going to argue them down to 7% margin. So in other words, I'm going to pay them a commission for every case they sell. That fee would be: 10 cases: $65 100 cases: $147 We're not talking about a lot of coin, here. From a business perspective, the reward of $147 for selling 100 isn't that great. It's probably not going to pay for Nathan or Gordon's time to setup the SKU in their system. But there's always eBay... Let's say sales taxes are an additional 8.5%: 10 cases: $86 100 cases: $191 Shipping and handling: 10 cases: $90 100 cases: $900 End Price: 10 cases: $1186 ( $118.60 per case ) 100 cases: $3338 ( $33.38 per case ) So... the question is... a) is it possible to convince Nathan or Gordon to sell these things through their websites for $65 - $147? b) is there actually a demand for 10 or 100 of these after-market cases? c) is there a one size fits all design that will satisfy everyone who wants an after-market case? So, I'm not saying I want to get into the business of making after- market Neo cases, but someone who was thinking about getting into this market would do an analysis just like this. So... if there was a solid demand for 100 cases, it's possible the price could be brought down to about $35-$40. This is definitely an interesting analysis of a set of costs associated with this kind of business. I think the costs could be a bit cheaper for the end user depending on material and costs to build the molds. But then again, I have not actually sat down and worked it out yet. /grin I do think there is a market here though.. --Tim ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Custom case designs... (the business perspective)
Note... I did ask about permission and we were told to wait on discussing with official personel till phase 2 of the phone. So scanning the actual case and building a knockoff would (in my opinion and until I am corrected by FIC / Sean or other person with some authority) be a violation of their IP. However, it is hardly a violation of their IP to build new designs from our own imagination and make them open / sell them by our own means. I just can't see how we could possibly be upsetting them by adding accessories for their devices which will in some way improve customer experience or at the very least satisfy some vanity impulse. --Tim On Tue, 3 Jul 2007 14:32, Robin Paulson wrote: Is it legal to sell these cases? The design may be based in no small part on work done by FIC, who will not be impressed by us stamping on their IP. We don't want to take the piss - they are helping us a lot. Making a few one-offs for ourselves, with no profit is ok, but as soon as we start marketing them, things may change. When he's not so busy, this would be one for sean to enquire about. On 7/4/07, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So... the question is... a) is it possible to convince Nathan or Gordon to sell these things through their websites for $65 - $147? I can sell it through my website: http://www.handheld-linux.com although I currently focus on the European markets only (due to tax and duty complexity). b) is there actually a demand for 10 or 100 of these after-market cases? Depends on the number of total units of the OpenMoko being sold. I would assume 1% after sales as a first rough guess. c) is there a one size fits all design that will satisfy everyone who wants an after-market case? Probably not. I remember that we did have approx. 50 - 100 different custom designs at Siemens mobile phones. Nikolaus Schaller The Handheld-Linux Shop http://www.handheld-linux.com operated by Golden Delicious Computers GmbHCo. KG Buchenstr. 3 D-82041 Oberhaching http://www.goldelico.com Make the customer come back and not the product ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community --Tim ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
