Re: Fwd: mailing list management
Mike Hodson wrote: Why not reply to all? Because im rather sure I don't want to reply to the author twice Well, I want you to reply to me twice, reason being that one copy goes into my openmoko folder and the other goes into my inbox. This way, I know this is not just another boring email in the list, but an email regarding a thread I'm interested in. Now, you might conceivably say that while that logic applies to me, it does not apply to you. To that I answer: log on to the mailman interface and turn on no duplicates. You get what you want (one email) and I get what I want (two emails), provided EVERYBODY PRESSES REPLY TO ALL. My $0.02 Mike Shachar ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Fwd: mailing list management
On Tue, Aug 14, 2007 at 03:29:33PM -0400, hank williams wrote: [...] A bad idea that most other high volume mailing lists do. [...] A bad idea that most other high volume mailing lists do. [...] 50 billions of flies eat shit, they can't be wrong... The majority doesn't always now the best way to do things. (most of net users actually prefer ugly web forum to mailing-list or nntp news...) Tom -- Thomas Lavergne Le vrai rêveur est celui qui rêve de l'impossible. (Elsa Triolet) [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://reveurs.org ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Fwd: mailing list management
Until my mail client gives me a reply to list ONLY command, I vote for changing reply-to to BE THE LIST. My email client has a reply to list. I use KMail. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: Fwd: mailing list management
Maybe not but at least we know not to resend the same email 20 times. over and over..and overand over. Cheers, Dean From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of hank williams Sent: Tuesday, 14 August 2007 10:22 PM To: Rod Whitby Cc: OpenMoko Subject: Re: Fwd: mailing list management Do the people suggesting these changes think that they really know better about how this list should be set up? Yup. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Fwd: mailing list management
OK, since we are having fun with mailing-list classics, here is another one... Bonus point, it is even not limited to mailing-lists. A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail? Given that top-posting and quoting the original message in its integrity is a common practice, can we infer that posters that trim the original message and reply inline to specific points waste their time? Or is it just caused by yet another Outlook deficiency? Sorry but I did not get your point. As my mail agent automatically discards duplicates, I must be missing some implicit context. To come back to the subject of this thread, trying to decide whether Reply-To munging is helpful or harmful is just either-or thinking. In neither case does it always dispense the poster from thinking of what he is doing and from editing the To: and/or the CC: lists when necessary. YMMV [original message intentionally untrimmed] On Wednesday August 15 2007 21:39, Dean Collins wrote: Maybe not but at least we know not to resend the same email 20 times. over and over..and overand over. Cheers, Dean From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of hank williams Sent: Tuesday, 14 August 2007 10:22 PM To: Rod Whitby Cc: OpenMoko Subject: Re: Fwd: mailing list management Do the people suggesting these changes think that they really know better about how this list should be set up? Yup. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Fwd: mailing list management
hank williams wrote: Oops. As usual I hit reply to and it went to casey personally Its broken. Just so that the 'silent majority' don't lose out on this one, I would like to point out that there are approximately 1,500 people subscribed to this list. Can we assume that unless we hear from them their vote is 'no change'? There are pros and cons to each system, but anyone who has already set up their own filters will have done so on the existing system so I suggest we leave it as it is. Cheers, Jim. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: Fwd: mailing list management
Lol - yep shortly followed by the human race all moving back to wearing skins and living in rock caves. Doing nothing as a 'reason' is about as dumb as you can get. Regards, Dean Collins Cognation Pty Ltd [EMAIL PROTECTED] +1-212-203-4357 Ph +61-2-9016-5642 (Sydney in-dial). -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:community- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jim McDonald Sent: Tuesday, 14 August 2007 4:26 PM To: OpenMoko Subject: Re: Fwd: mailing list management so I suggest we leave it as it is. Cheers, Jim. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: Fwd: mailing list management
No vote != no change. No vote = don't care. Personally I don't care, but I don't feel my apathy should lend strength to one side of the argument or another. Incidentally, my lack of caring is only relevant to the subject line. I do feel the reply-to should be changed to reply to the list instead. I read the page that was linked, suggesting that's a bad idea, and I disagree. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jim McDonald Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2007 4:26 PM To: OpenMoko Subject: Re: Fwd: mailing list management hank williams wrote: Oops. As usual I hit reply to and it went to casey personally Its broken. Just so that the 'silent majority' don't lose out on this one, I would like to point out that there are approximately 1,500 people subscribed to this list. Can we assume that unless we hear from them their vote is 'no change'? There are pros and cons to each system, but anyone who has already set up their own filters will have done so on the existing system so I suggest we leave it as it is. Cheers, Jim. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community NOTE: The information in this message is intended for the personal and confidential use of the designated recipient(s) named above. To the extent the recipient(s) is/are bound by a non-disclosure agreement, or other agreement that contains an obligation of confidentiality, with AuthenTec, then this message and/or any attachments shall be considered confidential information and subject to the confidentiality terms of that agreement. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient named above, you are notified that you have received this document in error, and any review, dissemination, distribution or copying of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this document in error, please delete the original message and notify the sender immediately. Thank you. AuthenTec, Inc. http://www.authentec.com ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Fwd: mailing list management
Dean Collins wrote: Lol - yep shortly followed by the human race all moving back to wearing skins and living in rock caves. Actually, filtering on Subject is the caveman thing to do. :-) The following headers are *specifically* added by the mailing list software to enable you to accurately filter your incoming mail: Thread-Topic: Fwd: mailing list management X-BeenThere: community@lists.openmoko.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: List for OpenMoko community discussion community.lists.openmoko.org List-Unsubscribe: http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community, mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] List-Archive: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community List-Post: mailto:community@lists.openmoko.org List-Help: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] List-Subscribe: http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community, mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Errors-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] You should use one of those. Why do you think they were added to the mailman software in the first place? Subject line real estate is a precious commodity. It should not be wasted on information that is already available in the mailing list headers. On the other mailing list topic (Reply vs Reply-All): When you receive a mail with one person on the To: line and many people on the Cc: line - if you just hit Reply, you expect it to go to the *one* person on the To: line. If you hit Reply-All, you expect it to go to all the people referenced on the To: and Cc: lines. A mailing list is conceptually just a very big Cc: line. If you were to change the behaviour so that Reply went straight to the mailing list, then there would be no way (other than cutting and pasting addresses around) to reply to *just* the sender. My vote is to leave things exactly as they are. Harald set things up the way they are based on his experience in being an active participant in many technical mailing lists. Do the people suggesting these changes think that they really know better about how this list should be set up? -- Rod ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Fwd: mailing list management
Jim McDonald wrote: Just so that the 'silent majority' don't lose out on this one, I would like to point out that there are approximately 1,500 people subscribed to this list. Can we assume that unless we hear from them their vote is 'no change'? There are pros and cons to each system, but anyone who has already set up their own filters will have done so on the existing system so I suggest we leave it as it is. I am a member of the 'silent majority' - this is my first post - and, yes, please leave it as it is. Having [OpenMoko-Community] in front of every subject-line gives me no additional information, since my mail get's sorted into the respective folder automatically, but makes the list less readable. Changing the reply-to is unacceptable. It has always been that simple: if I press Reply I'm writing to the author of the e-mail, if I press Reply All everybody who got the original mail (except BCCs of course) get's my response. Why should that be different just because the e-mail got delivered by a mailing-list? And I don't think that a MTA should be allowed to change any header, if there isn't a technical necessity. But what I'm wondering most about this topic is: it was discussed several times on half of the mailing-lists I'm subscribed to, but the problem was never solved. But I think that should be easy. Just make it user-configurable. Is it so hard to write that piece of code and convince the mailman-developers to include into the distribution? If that would happen, I would never ever see this discussion again. That would be a relief. Christian ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Fwd: mailing list management
Do the people suggesting these changes think that they really know better about how this list should be set up? Yup. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Fwd: mailing list management
Look I'll vote for not changing the subject line; headers are wonderful for sorting. However, when I wish to reply -to the list-, I get a choice of either -to the sender- or -to the list, sender AND anyone else the bloody sender sent it to- instead of simply replying -to the list-. While the wonderful doc that everyone links to regarding why -not- to munge the reply-to header, they fail to consider the normal way things work: people discuss list stuff on the bloody list, not off the list, not to the author only(reply sender), and not to everyone else the author thought to send a message to (reply-to-all functionality). Based on this, a -list- is different than a normal message; the -list- is a discussion group and responses should be filtered into that group. For the argument that the person replying will lose the proper path back to the sender, or mistake sending a personal message to a list, simply read from and manually type that into the to field. If a person is not using a valid From address, yet IS using a valid Reply-to, then this person is rather strange. Until my mail client gives me a reply to list ONLY command, I vote for changing reply-to to BE THE LIST. To the person who said Learn to use gmail well thats nice, when the only way I can -reply to the list- is to manually delete whatever the hell it decides to shove into the reply headers, and manually type in [EMAIL PROTECTED] Why not reply to all? Because im rather sure I don't want to reply to the author twice (as he apparently is on the list) and I don't want to reply to anyone else the author sent the mail to. There appears to be no other way to use this client than simply 1 or all, not simply 'list'. My $0.02 Mike ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Fwd: mailing list management
Mike Hodson wrote: Why not reply to all? Because im rather sure I don't want to reply to the author twice (as he apparently is on the list) and I don't want to reply to anyone else the author sent the mail to. There appears to be no other way to use this client than simply 1 or all, not simply 'list'. I personally prefer that people reply to me on and off list - that means that when people have something to say to *me* (which they denote by leaving me in the To: list) as well as the list, as opposed to just talking to the list (which they denote by just having the list as the only recipient), then that is highlighted to me by ending up in my INBOX rather than in the lower priority folder where my mailing list traffic goes. Hence I see it immediately, rather than at the time when I batch read and respond to list traffic. (In this case I have purposefully taken Mike off the To: list from my Reply-All, because this comment is directed to the list only, not to him personally and the list - I have no reason to get into an argument with him about what he wants to do, I'm just giving an alternate viewpoint to the list about what someone else might want to do). -- Rod ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
