Re: Openmoko Beagle Hybrid - was: [Community Updates] 2010-08-01 is out
Again good news: we have won one of the new PandaBoards (OMAP4 / ARM Coretx A9) boards through the PandaBoard Early Adopter Program: http://omappedia.org/wiki/PandaBoard_Voting#PHASE-I_Winners http://omappedia.org/wiki/PEAP_Projects#Handheld_LCD_.26_GPS_.26_Navigation_Expansion_Board http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Openmoko_Beagle_Hybrid Our goal is to adapt the hard- and software of the Openmoko Beagle Hybrid to this new board. This will give even more power to future Openmoko devices. Nikolaus Am 14.09.2010 um 10:50 schrieb Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller: Hi, you may wonder what has happened to the Openmoko Beagle Hybrid [1] mentioned in the August Community update (cited below). First of all we had some delay with our SMD assembly company. They had holidays on one hand and more work than expected (economy appears indeed to flourish again). But now we have 10 kits available to find a new home. And we received a BeagleBoard XM some days ago and started to test the OM Hybrid. We found two major issues so far: 1. the BB-XM already comes with connectors soldered to the board. Unfortunately Murphy's law did hit us and the BB-XM uses the opposite gender as our approach for mounting to the BB-C4. We now have to adjust for that (by finding a simple adapter solution). 2. the BB-XM uses a different version of the bootloader that is not compatible with our own code extensions [2]. So we have to fix that so that our SD card image works on the both, the older BB-C and the new BB-XM. Why is the BB-XM important at all, considering that the BB-C4 is still available and a little cheaper? Well, the BB-XM comes with a new DM3730 processor (1 GHz ARM Cortex A8), has a built-in USB/Ethernet hub for 4 ports and a built-in RS232 converter. This makes it even more simple to experiment with Bluetooth, WiFi, UMTS sticks connected to the Openmoko Beagle Hybrid while still having a portable design (using an external battery pack) to do experiments. So we work on these issues and just need some more days to solve them. Nikolaus [1]: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Openmoko_Beagle_Hybrid [2]: http://projects.goldelico.com/p/ombeagle/ Am 04.08.2010 um 10:28 schrieb Timo Jyrinki: Newest community update now available at http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Community_Updates/2010-08-01 and simplified text version below. Community Most important and change making mails on the mailing lists, blogs etc.. Coolest hacks, screenshots, themes etc.. * Golden Delicious Computers released Openmoko Beagle Hybrid Boards including GPS and a gyroscope. At the same time, they announced - http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2010-July/062609.html - plans to develop the next open hardware phone. Based on a OMAP3530 SoC this device will bring a lot of computing power to your pocket. ___ Smartphones-userland mailing list smartphones-userl...@linuxtogo.org http://lists.linuxtogo.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/smartphones-userland ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Re: Openmoko Beagle Hybrid - was: [Community Updates] 2010-08-01 is out
we have won one of the new PandaBoards (OMAP4 / ARM Coretx A9) boards through the PandaBoard Early Adopter Program: Congratulations! This is good news, indeed. -- n...@el-hennig.de Lubarsky's Law of Cybernetic Entomology: There's always one more bug. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Openmoko Beagle Hybrid - was: [Community Updates] 2010-08-01 is out
On 13/10/2010 08:15, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote: Again good news: we have won one of the new PandaBoards (OMAP4 / ARM Coretx A9) boards through the PandaBoard Early Adopter Program: http://omappedia.org/wiki/PandaBoard_Voting#PHASE-I_Winners http://omappedia.org/wiki/PEAP_Projects#Handheld_LCD_.26_GPS_.26_Navigation_Expansion_Board http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Openmoko_Beagle_Hybrid Our goal is to adapt the hard- and software of the Openmoko Beagle Hybrid to this new board. This will give even more power to future Openmoko devices. Nikolaus Am 14.09.2010 um 10:50 schrieb Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller: -- That's sound Excellent ! (still a lot of new work, but excellent news !) Thomas Hi, you may wonder what has happened to the Openmoko Beagle Hybrid [1] mentioned in the August Community update (cited below). First of all we had some delay with our SMD assembly company. They had holidays on one hand and more work than expected (economy appears indeed to flourish again). But now we have 10 kits available to find a new home. And we received a BeagleBoard XM some days ago and started to test the OM Hybrid. We found two major issues so far: 1. the BB-XM already comes with connectors soldered to the board. Unfortunately Murphy's law did hit us and the BB-XM uses the opposite gender as our approach for mounting to the BB-C4. We now have to adjust for that (by finding a simple adapter solution). 2. the BB-XM uses a different version of the bootloader that is not compatible with our own code extensions [2]. So we have to fix that so that our SD card image works on the both, the older BB-C and the new BB-XM. Why is the BB-XM important at all, considering that the BB-C4 is still available and a little cheaper? Well, the BB-XM comes with a new DM3730 processor (1 GHz ARM Cortex A8), has a built-in USB/Ethernet hub for 4 ports and a built-in RS232 converter. This makes it even more simple to experiment with Bluetooth, WiFi, UMTS sticks connected to the Openmoko Beagle Hybrid while still having a portable design (using an external battery pack) to do experiments. So we work on these issues and just need some more days to solve them. Nikolaus [1]: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Openmoko_Beagle_Hybrid [2]: http://projects.goldelico.com/p/ombeagle/ Am 04.08.2010 um 10:28 schrieb Timo Jyrinki: Newest community update now available at http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Community_Updates/2010-08-01 and simplified text version below. Community Most important and change making mails on the mailing lists, blogs etc.. Coolest hacks, screenshots, themes etc.. * Golden Delicious Computers released Openmoko Beagle Hybrid Boards including GPS and a gyroscope. At the same time, they announced - http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2010-July/062609.html - plans to develop the next open hardware phone. Based on a OMAP3530 SoC this device will bring a lot of computing power to your pocket. ___ Smartphones-userland mailing list smartphones-userl...@linuxtogo.org http://lists.linuxtogo.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/smartphones-userland ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Openmoko Beagle Hybrid - was: [Community Updates] 2010-08-01 is out
Am 13.10.2010 um 10:01 schrieb Thomas HOCEDEZ: On 13/10/2010 08:15, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote: Again good news: we have won one of the new PandaBoards (OMAP4 / ARM Coretx A9) boards through the PandaBoard Early Adopter Program: http://omappedia.org/wiki/PandaBoard_Voting#PHASE-I_Winners http://omappedia.org/wiki/PEAP_Projects#Handheld_LCD_.26_GPS_.26_Navigation_Expansion_Board http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Openmoko_Beagle_Hybrid Our goal is to adapt the hard- and software of the Openmoko Beagle Hybrid to this new board. This will give even more power to future Openmoko devices. Nikolaus Am 14.09.2010 um 10:50 schrieb Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller: -- That's sound Excellent ! (still a lot of new work, but excellent news !) Thanks! It is like starting a new branch of the next unstable version of Debian. Needs a lot of work and time to get it through testing to stable. So please don't expect results soon... The GTA04 will be finished before. We will report from time to time what we have achieved. The first step is to await that the PandaBoard arrives :) Well, it is the second step. The first is to study what we will get: http://pandaboard.org/sites/default/files/board_reference/EA1/Panda_Board_Spec_REVEA1_04.pdf Nikolaus ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Openmoko Beagle Hybrid - was: [Community Updates] 2010-08-01 is out
--- On Wed, 10/13/10, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller h...@goldelico.com wrote: Again good news: we have won one of the new PandaBoards (OMAP4 / ARM Coretx () Congratulations! Best regards, Boudewijn ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Openmoko Beagle Hybrid
1. PCB and very special components only (you can go shopping yourself). 2. PCB and complete component set (unsoldered) 3. PCB and components already soldered on a professional SMT line (we have one) 4. same as 3 including a Wi2Wi GPS receiver module (we are not sure if the internal Freerunner antenna module works, but an external antenna connected through the MMCX plug did work). This will increase the price of course. I'm a software guy, so options 1 and 2 are out for me. No preference w.r.t 3 vs 4. Stefan ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Openmoko Beagle Hybrid
Hi Thomas, our current plan is described here: http://www.handheld-linux.com/wiki.php?page=Openmoko%20Beagle but prices may change a little. Also depends on the outcome which variants you all prefer. And the number of units. The status is that we have enough boards and are waiting to receive the stencils for mass production. Nikolaus Am 18.06.2010 um 07:40 schrieb Thomas HOCDEZ: Hi ! Whoao ! Such a good news ! Can you reveal to the community prices availability of the boards. I imagine you don't have thousands. I don(t know yet if I'm interrested (in fact my banker knows but ...). Thanks a lot great job ! Regards AstHrO On 15/06/2010 18:25, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote: Hi all, we were a little quiet the last days because we just had to wait to receive the final PCBs and some components and start testing the boards. We are currently thinking about different offers: 1. PCB and very special components only (you can go shopping yourself). 2. PCB and complete component set (unsoldered) 3. PCB and components already soldered on a professional SMT line (we have one) 4. same as 3 including a Wi2Wi GPS receiver module (we are not sure if the internal Freerunner antenna module works, but an external antenna connected through the MMCX plug did work). This will increase the price of course. But beware for variants 12: there are several 0402 components and one 0.5mm pitch BGA (TSC2007) for which you need very special soldering eqipment. Please let me know your preferences (either here or by private mail). Best regards, Nikolaus PS: the git for U-Boot and the kernel is already active PPS: I have just copied the QtMoko rootfs on the Beagle Board and it did run through touch screen calibration and language selection menu before some component did segfault Am 11.05.2010 um 09:56 schrieb Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller: There is now a new Wiki page for the project: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Openmoko_Beagle_Hybrid I have received some questions why we did not put all this into a nice design. The main reason is that we can't redesign the Beagleboard (it has fixed dimensions) and we can't afford to build plastic injection moulds (if someone has an idea how to reduce cost this is very welcome). So the easiest solution was to combine what we have: a given Beagleboard and the Freerunner case. Other questions were what one could do with this. Here some ideas (not assuming it is complete - you may have more and it is a platform for your creativity): • experimenting with touchscreen and new user interfaces on Beagleboard • learn how the OMAP3530 CPU works • make it a truly open mobile application development platform by adding a battery pack and a UMTS usb stick • investigate how an Openmoko with UMTS and OMAP3530 feels (not from haptics but screen operation and UMTS speed) • porting SHR, QtMoko, Android, etc. to ARM-Cortex A8 And here some feature list: • PCB that fits into Freerunner case (top cover and middle part after cutting a hole) • works also without such a case (except speakers and earset) • Toppoly LCM interface (same display as used in the Freerunner - otherwise it would not fit into the case) • TSC2007 touch screen controller • Microphone • Earset and Speaker connector (for those sitting in the Freerunner case) • 2 buttons (AUX and Power) • 2 dual color LEDs (in the AUX and Power buttons) • vibracall driver • headset jack to connect microphone, earset and speaker For the software, we have to rearrange the code on our server a little and then it will be made public. Finally, here you can do preorders: http://www.handheld-linux.com/wiki.php?page=Openmoko%20Beagle Nikolaus ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Openmoko Beagle Hybrid
Hi all, we were a little quiet the last days because we just had to wait to receive the final PCBs and some components and start testing the boards. We are currently thinking about different offers: 1. PCB and very special components only (you can go shopping yourself). 2. PCB and complete component set (unsoldered) 3. PCB and components already soldered on a professional SMT line (we have one) 4. same as 3 including a Wi2Wi GPS receiver module (we are not sure if the internal Freerunner antenna module works, but an external antenna connected through the MMCX plug did work). This will increase the price of course. But beware for variants 12: there are several 0402 components and one 0.5mm pitch BGA (TSC2007) for which you need very special soldering eqipment. Please let me know your preferences (either here or by private mail). Best regards, Nikolaus PS: the git for U-Boot and the kernel is already active PPS: I have just copied the QtMoko rootfs on the Beagle Board and it did run through touch screen calibration and language selection menu before some component did segfault Am 11.05.2010 um 09:56 schrieb Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller: There is now a new Wiki page for the project: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Openmoko_Beagle_Hybrid I have received some questions why we did not put all this into a nice design. The main reason is that we can't redesign the Beagleboard (it has fixed dimensions) and we can't afford to build plastic injection moulds (if someone has an idea how to reduce cost this is very welcome). So the easiest solution was to combine what we have: a given Beagleboard and the Freerunner case. Other questions were what one could do with this. Here some ideas (not assuming it is complete - you may have more and it is a platform for your creativity): • experimenting with touchscreen and new user interfaces on Beagleboard • learn how the OMAP3530 CPU works • make it a truly open mobile application development platform by adding a battery pack and a UMTS usb stick • investigate how an Openmoko with UMTS and OMAP3530 feels (not from haptics but screen operation and UMTS speed) • porting SHR, QtMoko, Android, etc. to ARM-Cortex A8 And here some feature list: • PCB that fits into Freerunner case (top cover and middle part after cutting a hole) • works also without such a case (except speakers and earset) • Toppoly LCM interface (same display as used in the Freerunner - otherwise it would not fit into the case) • TSC2007 touch screen controller • Microphone • Earset and Speaker connector (for those sitting in the Freerunner case) • 2 buttons (AUX and Power) • 2 dual color LEDs (in the AUX and Power buttons) • vibracall driver • headset jack to connect microphone, earset and speaker For the software, we have to rearrange the code on our server a little and then it will be made public. Finally, here you can do preorders: http://www.handheld-linux.com/wiki.php?page=Openmoko%20Beagle Nikolaus ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Openmoko Beagle Hybrid
Hi ! Whoao ! Such a good news ! Can you reveal to the community prices availability of the boards. I imagine you don't have thousands. I don(t know yet if I'm interrested (in fact my banker knows but ...). Thanks a lot great job ! Regards AstHrO On 15/06/2010 18:25, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote: Hi all, we were a little quiet the last days because we just had to wait to receive the final PCBs and some components and start testing the boards. We are currently thinking about different offers: 1. PCB and very special components only (you can go shopping yourself). 2. PCB and complete component set (unsoldered) 3. PCB and components already soldered on a professional SMT line (we have one) 4. same as 3 including a Wi2Wi GPS receiver module (we are not sure if the internal Freerunner antenna module works, but an external antenna connected through the MMCX plug did work). This will increase the price of course. But beware for variants 12: there are several 0402 components and one 0.5mm pitch BGA (TSC2007) for which you need very special soldering eqipment. Please let me know your preferences (either here or by private mail). Best regards, Nikolaus PS: the git for U-Boot and the kernel is already active PPS: I have just copied the QtMoko rootfs on the Beagle Board and it did run through touch screen calibration and language selection menu before some component did segfault Am 11.05.2010 um 09:56 schrieb Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller: There is now a new Wiki page for the project: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Openmoko_Beagle_Hybrid I have received some questions why we did not put all this into a nice design. The main reason is that we can't redesign the Beagleboard (it has fixed dimensions) and we can't afford to build plastic injection moulds (if someone has an idea how to reduce cost this is very welcome). So the easiest solution was to combine what we have: a given Beagleboard and the Freerunner case. Other questions were what one could do with this. Here some ideas (not assuming it is complete - you may have more and it is a platform for your creativity): • experimenting with touchscreen and new user interfaces on Beagleboard • learn how the OMAP3530 CPU works • make it a truly open mobile application development platform by adding a battery pack and a UMTS usb stick • investigate how an Openmoko with UMTS and OMAP3530 feels (not from haptics but screen operation and UMTS speed) • porting SHR, QtMoko, Android, etc. to ARM-Cortex A8 And here some feature list: • PCB that fits into Freerunner case (top cover and middle part after cutting a hole) • works also without such a case (except speakers and earset) • Toppoly LCM interface (same display as used in the Freerunner - otherwise it would not fit into the case) • TSC2007 touch screen controller • Microphone • Earset and Speaker connector (for those sitting in the Freerunner case) • 2 buttons (AUX and Power) • 2 dual color LEDs (in the AUX and Power buttons) • vibracall driver • headset jack to connect microphone, earset and speaker For the software, we have to rearrange the code on our server a little and then it will be made public. Finally, here you can do preorders: http://www.handheld-linux.com/wiki.php?page=Openmoko%20Beagle Nikolaus ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Openmoko Beagle Hybrid
Am 23.05.2010 um 15:12 schrieb Martijn van Dongen: Nikolaus, I agree you should first play with something that is available. The information I got is from eurocircuit.com, The price is based on 4 layer 150 * 60 mm; just a wild guess of the size and layers based on standard technology, but giving an indication. More about the possibilities can be read in http://www.eurocircuits.com/images/stories/ec09/ec-services-leaflet-uk-english-4-2010-v2.pdf . I did not check any guidelines and requirements, so hard to say what suits. If somebody could provide more detailed information or point in a direction, a more serious price could be obtained. Ok, I see. They are a pooling supplier like others (pcb-pool, multipcb, etc.), but unfortunately such a project is well outside their offer. Just to mention some more or less important differences (I have not looked into all of them): * PCB thickness - 1.0 mm (or it will not fit into the Freerunner case) * 8 layers needed (or we can't connect all the many pins of the OMAP BGA) * stacked/filled Microvias (this is something like a minimum drill of 0.1 mm) * 0.1 mm wire width * etching and stop mask printing precision good enough for 0.3 mm SMD pads (BGA pitch is 0.4 mm) We have done some analyses and none of the online-pcb-shops can provide this. Therefore we asked several manufacturers by e-mail and most declined because they can't handle micro-vias. Some could do it but they said that our requirements drive PCBs cost up to factor 10. I don't know how the OpenPandora solved this (but they have produced 4000 boards so the cost may come down through to large volume). And, I don't know how the BeagleBoard project solved this. But I have read somewhere that they have only 6 layers (not using all features of the OMAP) and 3000 units per batch. Maybe, someone has also sponsored the prototyping phase where you have to produce boards at 500 EUR each. And then you find one misplaced connection or component :( For the Openmoko Beagle Hybrid we have just 2 layers (but no OMAP on board). So cost is much lower and comes into the range you have found. But we will add some margin to cover our development and prototyping cost. So that is the status as of today. If we can find a design that has big enough demand, we can bring down cost of PCBs to be insignificant (but only if we don't change the PCB design every now and then). This finally will lead to the question how many of us want to own such a new OMAP based motherboard for the Freerunner... But I think we are too early to really pose this question since for solid market research, one has to present at least a full concept (complete feature list and target price). BR, Nikolaus Regards, Martijn 2010/5/21 Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller h...@goldelico.com Yes, this all can be considered for a future version. What we wanted to start with is something that just works, is easily available, can be used for experimenting and software development and is not too costly. A nice case, a new PCB for the OMAP processor or using the Gumstix makes things much more expensive. @Yocto: what has to be considered is that the Gumstix does not fit into a Freerunner case (it is still too large/thick). @ Martijn: the OMAP BGA poses high level requirements for a new PCB. So I would be surprised if one can really get such PCBs for 15 € @ 50 units. But do you have more information? What have been your assumptions about # of layers, min. drill size, min. width etc.? Nikolaus Am 21.05.2010 um 15:48 schrieb Yocto: I haven't seen a discussion about redesign of the board, the design files (schematics in Orcad) are available, so you can downsize the connectors used and fit it in an existing casing. Could we, also, consider the option of using a smaller board like the Gumstix Overo ? OMAP3503 with ARM Cortex-A8 at 600MHz 256MB RAM / 256MB Flash [ 17mm x 58mm x 4.2mm ]. http://www.gumstix.com Regards, // Yocto - Original Message - From: Martijn van Dongen To: List for Openmoko community discussion Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2010 5:00 PM Subject: Re: Openmoko Beagle Hybrid Hi, First of all: nice project, could be a nice follow up for the freerunner. I have been looking at the discussions a little bit. Main discussion is how to make a new casing that fits around the beagle board, how to produce and what it costs. I haven't seen a discussion about redesign of the board, the design files (schematics in Orcad) are available, so you can downsize the connectors used and fit it in an existing casing. I have a price of a PCB (without parts) at low volumes (50 pieces) at less than €15. Assembly of low quantitiy boards will be very expensive (make it double the components price), so a DIY project for assembly of the boards will make the PCB fit for a reasonable price. Regards, Martijn 2010/5/11 Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller h...@computer.org
Re: Openmoko Beagle Hybrid
Em 25-05-2010 07:05, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller escreveu: This finally will lead to the question how many of us want to own such a new OMAP based motherboard for the Freerunner... But I think we are too early to really pose this question since for solid market research, one has to present at least a full concept (complete feature list and target price). For me there are a few requirements about it: * it has to fit *inside* the freerunner box, or I'm not interested * it has to have a working GSM chip, or I'm not interested * it should be possible to port SHR (preferred) or Meego for it with little trouble, or I'm not interested This is only because I both: 1) use the Freerunner as my main phone 2) don't have the time to make it all work If these issues were gone, then maybe we could talk prices, but not before, at least for me. Rui ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Openmoko Beagle Hybrid
Hi, 2010/5/25 Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller h...@goldelico.com: [...] We have done some analyses and none of the online-pcb-shops can provide this. Therefore we asked several manufacturers by e-mail and most declined because they can't handle micro-vias. Some could do it but they said that our requirements drive PCBs cost up to factor 10. I don't know how the OpenPandora solved this (but they have produced 4000 boards so the cost may come down through to large volume). And, I don't know how the BeagleBoard project solved this. But I have read somewhere that they have only 6 layers (not using all features of the OMAP) and 3000 units per batch. [...] Since you mention the OpenPandora. Have you considered doing this as a hardware patch to this handheld console? I do not know if there is room for adding that in the case.. just an idea. If thats possible one could reuse a working pcb, a case and the touchscreen. regards Andreas Pokorny ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Openmoko Beagle Hybrid
Am 25.05.2010 um 12:46 schrieb Andreas Pokorny: Hi, 2010/5/25 Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller h...@goldelico.com: [...] We have done some analyses and none of the online-pcb-shops can provide this. Therefore we asked several manufacturers by e-mail and most declined because they can't handle micro-vias. Some could do it but they said that our requirements drive PCBs cost up to factor 10. I don't know how the OpenPandora solved this (but they have produced 4000 boards so the cost may come down through to large volume). And, I don't know how the BeagleBoard project solved this. But I have read somewhere that they have only 6 layers (not using all features of the OMAP) and 3000 units per batch. [...] Since you mention the OpenPandora. Have you considered doing this as a hardware patch to this handheld console? I do not know if there is room for adding that in the case.. just an idea. If thats possible one could reuse a working pcb, a case and the touchscreen. No, not at all. Both concepts are quite disjunct. Our intention is to finally come up with a new OMAP based motherboard for a Freerunner and the OM Beagle Hybrid is a first prototype to support software and concept development by plugging together a BeagleBoard and an expansion board with a Freerunner LCD module [1] (plus some glue electronics). The OpenPandora is a OMAP based gaming console with its own LCD. The OpenPandora is too big to fit into a Freerunner case. So connecting both doesn't make sense to me. Or did I misunderstand your idea? BR, Nikolaus [1]: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Openmoko_Beagle_Hybrid ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Openmoko Beagle Hybrid
Hi, I thought the target was to have a new oss phone with more modern or more common hardware, and since FR users are used to hardware patches :)... The FR users could become OP users with a special gsm/umts patch. But you are right the OP is a gaming console so it is also lacking some other features, like the accelerometer and the gps receiver. But there are two sdhc slots - maybe there is a sdio gps receiver. 2010/5/25 Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller h...@goldelico.com: Am 25.05.2010 um 12:46 schrieb Andreas Pokorny: Hi, 2010/5/25 Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller h...@goldelico.com: [...] We have done some analyses and none of the online-pcb-shops can provide this. Therefore we asked several manufacturers by e-mail and most declined because they can't handle micro-vias. Some could do it but they said that our requirements drive PCBs cost up to factor 10. I don't know how the OpenPandora solved this (but they have produced 4000 boards so the cost may come down through to large volume). And, I don't know how the BeagleBoard project solved this. But I have read somewhere that they have only 6 layers (not using all features of the OMAP) and 3000 units per batch. [...] Since you mention the OpenPandora. Have you considered doing this as a hardware patch to this handheld console? I do not know if there is room for adding that in the case.. just an idea. If thats possible one could reuse a working pcb, a case and the touchscreen. No, not at all. Both concepts are quite disjunct. Our intention is to finally come up with a new OMAP based motherboard for a Freerunner and the OM Beagle Hybrid is a first prototype to support software and concept development by plugging together a BeagleBoard and an expansion board with a Freerunner LCD module [1] (plus some glue electronics). The OpenPandora is a OMAP based gaming console with its own LCD. The OpenPandora is too big to fit into a Freerunner case. So connecting both doesn't make sense to me. Or did I misunderstand your idea? BR, Nikolaus [1]: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Openmoko_Beagle_Hybrid ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Openmoko Beagle Hybrid
Hiya! Im doing some Mendel development (http://blog.arcol.hu), and I have a working 3D printer. Here is my offer: I can print you prototypes for free. You still need to pay for the shipping, so I dont loose too much money on it. If you are interested, shoot me an email. Also the machine has its limitations, so I doubt the final product can be made on it. Best regards, Laszlo ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Openmoko Beagle Hybrid
2010/5/25 Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller h...@goldelico.com: [...] The OpenPandora is a OMAP based gaming console with its own LCD. The OpenPandora is too big to fit into a Freerunner case. So connecting both doesn't make sense to me. Or did I misunderstand your idea? The idea was to design a small extension pcb with a gsm/umts chip and antenna attached to the internal gpio or uart connectors of the pandora. So the gaming console becomes a phone. regards Andreas ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Openmoko Beagle Hybrid
Nikolaus, I agree you should first play with something that is available. The information I got is from eurocircuit.com, The price is based on 4 layer 150 * 60 mm; just a wild guess of the size and layers based on standard technology, but giving an indication. More about the possibilities can be read in http://www.eurocircuits.com/images/stories/ec09/ec-services-leaflet-uk-english-4-2010-v2.pdf. I did not check any guidelines and requirements, so hard to say what suits. If somebody could provide more detailed information or point in a direction, a more serious price could be obtained. Regards, Martijn 2010/5/21 Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller h...@goldelico.com Yes, this all can be considered for a future version. What we wanted to start with is something that just works, is easily available, can be used for experimenting and software development and is not too costly. A nice case, a new PCB for the OMAP processor or using the Gumstix makes things much more expensive. @Yocto: what has to be considered is that the Gumstix does not fit into a Freerunner case (it is still too large/thick). @ Martijn: the OMAP BGA poses high level requirements for a new PCB. So I would be surprised if one can really get such PCBs for 15 € @ 50 units. But do you have more information? What have been your assumptions about # of layers, min. drill size, min. width etc.? Nikolaus Am 21.05.2010 um 15:48 schrieb Yocto: I haven't seen a discussion about redesign of the board, the design files (schematics in Orcad) are available, so you can downsize the connectors used and fit it in an existing casing. Could we, also, consider the option of using a smaller board like the Gumstix Overo ? OMAP3503 with ARM Cortex-A8 at 600MHz 256MB RAM / 256MB Flash [ 17mm x 58mm x 4.2mm ]. http://www.gumstix.com Regards, // Yocto - Original Message - *From:* Martijn van Dongen marvad@gmail.com *To:* List for Openmoko community discussioncommunity@lists.openmoko.org *Sent:* Thursday, May 20, 2010 5:00 PM *Subject:* Re: Openmoko Beagle Hybrid Hi, First of all: nice project, could be a nice follow up for the freerunner. I have been looking at the discussions a little bit. Main discussion is how to make a new casing that fits around the beagle board, how to produce and what it costs. I haven't seen a discussion about redesign of the board, the design files (schematics in Orcad) are available, so you can downsize the connectors used and fit it in an existing casing. I have a price of a PCB (without parts) at low volumes (50 pieces) at less than €15. Assembly of low quantitiy boards will be very expensive (make it double the components price), so a DIY project for assembly of the boards will make the PCB fit for a reasonable price. Regards, Martijn 2010/5/11 Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller h...@computer.org There is now a new Wiki page for the project: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Openmoko_Beagle_Hybrid I have received some questions why we did not put all this into a nice design. The main reason is that we can't redesign the Beagleboard (it has fixed dimensions) and we can't afford to build plastic injection moulds (if someone has an idea how to reduce cost this is very welcome). So the easiest solution was to combine what we have: a given Beagleboard and the Freerunner case. Other questions were what one could do with this. Here some ideas (not assuming it is complete - you may have more and it is a platform for your creativity): • experimenting with touchscreen and new user interfaces on Beagleboard • learn how the OMAP3530 CPU works • make it a truly open mobile application development platform by adding a battery pack and a UMTS usb stick • investigate how an Openmoko with UMTS and OMAP3530 feels (not from haptics but screen operation and UMTS speed) • porting SHR, QtMoko, Android, etc. to ARM-Cortex A8 And here some feature list: • PCB that fits into Freerunner case (top cover and middle part after cutting a hole) • works also without such a case (except speakers and earset) • Toppoly LCM interface (same display as used in the Freerunner - otherwise it would not fit into the case) • TSC2007 touch screen controller • Microphone • Earset and Speaker connector (for those sitting in the Freerunner case) • 2 buttons (AUX and Power) • 2 dual color LEDs (in the AUX and Power buttons) • vibracall driver • headset jack to connect microphone, earset and speaker For the software, we have to rearrange the code on our server a little and then it will be made public. Finally, here you can do preorders: http://www.handheld-linux.com/wiki.php?page=Openmoko%20Beagle Nikolaus ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo
Re: Openmoko Beagle Hybrid
I haven't seen a discussion about redesign of the board, the design files (schematics in Orcad) are available, so you can downsize the connectors used and fit it in an existing casing. Could we, also, consider the option of using a smaller board like the Gumstix Overo ? OMAP3503 with ARM Cortex-A8 at 600MHz 256MB RAM / 256MB Flash [ 17mm x 58mm x 4.2mm ]. http://www.gumstix.com Regards, // Yocto - Original Message - From: Martijn van Dongen To: List for Openmoko community discussion Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2010 5:00 PM Subject: Re: Openmoko Beagle Hybrid Hi, First of all: nice project, could be a nice follow up for the freerunner. I have been looking at the discussions a little bit. Main discussion is how to make a new casing that fits around the beagle board, how to produce and what it costs. I haven't seen a discussion about redesign of the board, the design files (schematics in Orcad) are available, so you can downsize the connectors used and fit it in an existing casing. I have a price of a PCB (without parts) at low volumes (50 pieces) at less than €15. Assembly of low quantitiy boards will be very expensive (make it double the components price), so a DIY project for assembly of the boards will make the PCB fit for a reasonable price. Regards, Martijn 2010/5/11 Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller h...@computer.org There is now a new Wiki page for the project: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Openmoko_Beagle_Hybrid I have received some questions why we did not put all this into a nice design. The main reason is that we can't redesign the Beagleboard (it has fixed dimensions) and we can't afford to build plastic injection moulds (if someone has an idea how to reduce cost this is very welcome). So the easiest solution was to combine what we have: a given Beagleboard and the Freerunner case. Other questions were what one could do with this. Here some ideas (not assuming it is complete - you may have more and it is a platform for your creativity): • experimenting with touchscreen and new user interfaces on Beagleboard • learn how the OMAP3530 CPU works • make it a truly open mobile application development platform by adding a battery pack and a UMTS usb stick • investigate how an Openmoko with UMTS and OMAP3530 feels (not from haptics but screen operation and UMTS speed) • porting SHR, QtMoko, Android, etc. to ARM-Cortex A8 And here some feature list: • PCB that fits into Freerunner case (top cover and middle part after cutting a hole) • works also without such a case (except speakers and earset) • Toppoly LCM interface (same display as used in the Freerunner - otherwise it would not fit into the case) • TSC2007 touch screen controller • Microphone • Earset and Speaker connector (for those sitting in the Freerunner case) • 2 buttons (AUX and Power) • 2 dual color LEDs (in the AUX and Power buttons) • vibracall driver • headset jack to connect microphone, earset and speaker For the software, we have to rearrange the code on our server a little and then it will be made public. Finally, here you can do preorders: http://www.handheld-linux.com/wiki.php?page=Openmoko%20Beagle Nikolaus ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Openmoko Beagle Hybrid
Yes, this all can be considered for a future version. What we wanted to start with is something that just works, is easily available, can be used for experimenting and software development and is not too costly. A nice case, a new PCB for the OMAP processor or using the Gumstix makes things much more expensive. @Yocto: what has to be considered is that the Gumstix does not fit into a Freerunner case (it is still too large/thick). @ Martijn: the OMAP BGA poses high level requirements for a new PCB. So I would be surprised if one can really get such PCBs for 15 € @ 50 units. But do you have more information? What have been your assumptions about # of layers, min. drill size, min. width etc.? Nikolaus Am 21.05.2010 um 15:48 schrieb Yocto: I haven't seen a discussion about redesign of the board, the design files (schematics in Orcad) are available, so you can downsize the connectors used and fit it in an existing casing. Could we, also, consider the option of using a smaller board like the Gumstix Overo ? OMAP3503 with ARM Cortex-A8 at 600MHz 256MB RAM / 256MB Flash [ 17mm x 58mm x 4.2mm ]. http://www.gumstix.com Regards, // Yocto - Original Message - From: Martijn van Dongen To: List for Openmoko community discussion Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2010 5:00 PM Subject: Re: Openmoko Beagle Hybrid Hi, First of all: nice project, could be a nice follow up for the freerunner. I have been looking at the discussions a little bit. Main discussion is how to make a new casing that fits around the beagle board, how to produce and what it costs. I haven't seen a discussion about redesign of the board, the design files (schematics in Orcad) are available, so you can downsize the connectors used and fit it in an existing casing. I have a price of a PCB (without parts) at low volumes (50 pieces) at less than €15. Assembly of low quantitiy boards will be very expensive (make it double the components price), so a DIY project for assembly of the boards will make the PCB fit for a reasonable price. Regards, Martijn 2010/5/11 Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller h...@computer.org There is now a new Wiki page for the project: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Openmoko_Beagle_Hybrid I have received some questions why we did not put all this into a nice design. The main reason is that we can't redesign the Beagleboard (it has fixed dimensions) and we can't afford to build plastic injection moulds (if someone has an idea how to reduce cost this is very welcome). So the easiest solution was to combine what we have: a given Beagleboard and the Freerunner case. Other questions were what one could do with this. Here some ideas (not assuming it is complete - you may have more and it is a platform for your creativity): • experimenting with touchscreen and new user interfaces on Beagleboard • learn how the OMAP3530 CPU works • make it a truly open mobile application development platform by adding a battery pack and a UMTS usb stick • investigate how an Openmoko with UMTS and OMAP3530 feels (not from haptics but screen operation and UMTS speed) • porting SHR, QtMoko, Android, etc. to ARM-Cortex A8 And here some feature list: • PCB that fits into Freerunner case (top cover and middle part after cutting a hole) • works also without such a case (except speakers and earset) • Toppoly LCM interface (same display as used in the Freerunner - otherwise it would not fit into the case) • TSC2007 touch screen controller • Microphone • Earset and Speaker connector (for those sitting in the Freerunner case) • 2 buttons (AUX and Power) • 2 dual color LEDs (in the AUX and Power buttons) • vibracall driver • headset jack to connect microphone, earset and speaker For the software, we have to rearrange the code on our server a little and then it will be made public. Finally, here you can do preorders: http://www.handheld-linux.com/wiki.php?page=Openmoko%20Beagle Nikolaus ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Openmoko Beagle Hybrid
Hi, First of all: nice project, could be a nice follow up for the freerunner. I have been looking at the discussions a little bit. Main discussion is how to make a new casing that fits around the beagle board, how to produce and what it costs. I haven't seen a discussion about redesign of the board, the design files (schematics in Orcad) are available, so you can downsize the connectors used and fit it in an existing casing. I have a price of a PCB (without parts) at low volumes (50 pieces) at less than €15. Assembly of low quantitiy boards will be very expensive (make it double the components price), so a DIY project for assembly of the boards will make the PCB fit for a reasonable price. Regards, Martijn 2010/5/11 Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller h...@computer.org There is now a new Wiki page for the project: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Openmoko_Beagle_Hybrid I have received some questions why we did not put all this into a nice design. The main reason is that we can't redesign the Beagleboard (it has fixed dimensions) and we can't afford to build plastic injection moulds (if someone has an idea how to reduce cost this is very welcome). So the easiest solution was to combine what we have: a given Beagleboard and the Freerunner case. Other questions were what one could do with this. Here some ideas (not assuming it is complete - you may have more and it is a platform for your creativity): • experimenting with touchscreen and new user interfaces on Beagleboard • learn how the OMAP3530 CPU works • make it a truly open mobile application development platform by adding a battery pack and a UMTS usb stick • investigate how an Openmoko with UMTS and OMAP3530 feels (not from haptics but screen operation and UMTS speed) • porting SHR, QtMoko, Android, etc. to ARM-Cortex A8 And here some feature list: • PCB that fits into Freerunner case (top cover and middle part after cutting a hole) • works also without such a case (except speakers and earset) • Toppoly LCM interface (same display as used in the Freerunner - otherwise it would not fit into the case) • TSC2007 touch screen controller • Microphone • Earset and Speaker connector (for those sitting in the Freerunner case) • 2 buttons (AUX and Power) • 2 dual color LEDs (in the AUX and Power buttons) • vibracall driver • headset jack to connect microphone, earset and speaker For the software, we have to rearrange the code on our server a little and then it will be made public. Finally, here you can do preorders: http://www.handheld-linux.com/wiki.php?page=Openmoko%20Beagle Nikolaus ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Openmoko Beagle Hybrid
Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote: The problem is not technology or DIY capabilities, but cost. What we want to have is a nice case achievable for everybody, not only the enthusiast who wants to spend time and money for experimenting with DIY hardware or commercial FDM. So the question is how much does a SW developer want to pay to get HW + Case? Let's say 50 EUR per plastic case. FDM is at least 200 EUR (that is what we got as a quotation from the rapid-prototyping shops for a simple part and not the whole case). Or 700 EUR for a Cupcake. Or 5k for a protomold made thing. Or 10-20k EUR for a 3D printer. A full freerunner case consists of 6 plastic parts (incl. 2 buttons). The other side is expectation of quality/robustness. I have been told by experts who own a RepRap/CupCake that the precision is not good enough to reproduce a Freerunner case (wall thickness 0.5mm). true also its much too complex. i tried importing the 3d models into quite a lot of the free and or open 3d and machining tools, but the shear amount of detail seems to be a problem there. also there are limitations of what you can do with which each production-method: * e.g. for reprap-alikes, all overhangs 45deg need support structures. * milling in 3axis means you can only 'mill from e.g. above'.. to turn it to the side you already need a trick/mechanical help to mount it sideways, without loosing alignment, or a 4 or 5 axis mill (i don't think there is any free toolpath-gen for that yet) * laser cutting heavily depend on used materials and is basically '2d only' for the affordable machines (50keuro) this means designs consist out of 2d shapes. one 'stacks' afterwards or uses creative mounting methods to hold the shaped sheets together, like e.g. on the cupcake-cnc (makerbot) So if we find a method that allows to make 10 units from a budget of 500 EUR or 100 units from a total budget of 5000 EUR I am happy! tricky. we got a cnc mill (3axis, 800W spindle) as well as a simple lasercutter (50W) here in berlin in our hackspace. there is also a rep-rap-like printing head for thermoplastics, but thats not completely ready yet. the much bigger problem than machining itself, is getting a the design done. after that one needs to get the toolpath generated. special sw as well as expertise in that line of work is what it makes so expensive. milling itself isn't a very cheap form to 'produce something'. but still, its not the time the machine is running but the worktime of the human which makes it expensive. if somebody has too much free time and wanna try this, check out http://camgeeks.de/ and visit us there ;) free and/or open tools for mechanical engineering are still not quite 'done' (yet), but there is progress. Still they work well when you learned about their limits (or even extend them). ps: what about finding some 'ready made universal case' like from teko or boppla and do some cnc coutouts for the sockets? thats much easier. -- roh ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Openmoko Beagle Hybrid
On Monday 17 May 2010 10:45 AM, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote: So if we find a method that allows to make 10 units from a budget of 500 EUR or 100 units from a total budget of 5000 EUR I am happy! This may be a dumb response. But what about a machined metal (aluminium) case. These prices don't seem that bad. http://www.emachineshop.com/machine-shop/13-98-each-at-qty-50-CNC-Mill-Size-3-x-2-x-0-5-Holder-jig/img/page573.htmlimg_id=664 http://www.emachineshop.com/machine-shop/13-98-each-at-qty-50-CNC-Mill-Size-3-x-2-x-0-5-Holder-jig/img/page573.htmlimg_id=664 ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Openmoko Beagle Hybrid
On Mon, 2010-05-17 at 13:05 +0200, Joachim Steiger wrote: also there are limitations of what you can do with which each production-method: * e.g. for reprap-alikes, all overhangs 45deg need support structures. * milling in 3axis means you can only 'mill from e.g. above'.. to turn it to the side you already need a trick/mechanical help to mount it sideways, without loosing alignment, or a 4 or 5 axis mill (i don't think there is any free toolpath-gen for that yet) * laser cutting heavily depend on used materials and is basically '2d only' for the affordable machines (50keuro) this means designs consist out of 2d shapes. one 'stacks' afterwards or uses creative mounting methods to hold the shaped sheets together, like e.g. on the cupcake-cnc (makerbot) What about that: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4Yq3glEyec not sure how much it cost tough. Also not as free as cupcake or makerbot. Denis. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Openmoko Beagle Hybrid
Am 17.05.2010 um 20:00 schrieb GNUtoo: On Mon, 2010-05-17 at 13:05 +0200, Joachim Steiger wrote: also there are limitations of what you can do with which each production-method: * e.g. for reprap-alikes, all overhangs 45deg need support structures. * milling in 3axis means you can only 'mill from e.g. above'.. to turn it to the side you already need a trick/mechanical help to mount it sideways, without loosing alignment, or a 4 or 5 axis mill (i don't think there is any free toolpath-gen for that yet) * laser cutting heavily depend on used materials and is basically '2d only' for the affordable machines (50keuro) this means designs consist out of 2d shapes. one 'stacks' afterwards or uses creative mounting methods to hold the shaped sheets together, like e.g. on the cupcake-cnc (makerbot) What about that: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4Yq3glEyec not sure how much it cost tough. Don't know either... Appears to be http://www.objet.com/3D-Printer/Connex500/ Results look quite good. Machine Weight: 500 kg :) Also not as free as cupcake or makerbot. Well, if results are affordable I would even accept a non-free solution (at least as a first step)... Nikolaus ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Openmoko Beagle Hybrid
On Tue, May 11, 2010 at 12:56 AM, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller h...@computer.org wrote: has fixed dimensions) and we can't afford to build plastic injection moulds (if someone has an idea how to reduce cost this is very welcome). So the easiest solution was to combine what we have: a given Beagleboard and the Freerunner case. Personally I don't see what the big deal is with mold-making. Anybody could start a business doing that if it's so lucrative: get a Harbor Freight or other cheap milling machine and some blocks of aluminum, and develop the skill to do sufficiently accurate machining. (I have tried a little milling but my skill level definitely needs a lot of improvement; maybe it will if I ever get around to doing enough of it.) Of course CNC would be nice, but again, what's the big deal...3 steppers or servo motors and a controller... As someone else mentioned the Chinese obviously aren't having too much trouble with mold-making. It's also within the realm of possibility to make your own injection molding machine. There is a book (Gingery) about how to do that, but there is nothing too exotic in that book either... it's just a heated cylinder and piston arrangement with a lever to apply the pressure. Hot plastic comes squirting out, and you have your mold clamped in place to receive it. Alternatives include building a RepRap, making the plastic parts directly, and putting up with rough, inaccurate results; buying a better rapid prototyping machine (FDM type or laser sintering or the type that builds up parts from thin laminates); or directly CNC-milling the cases (you could even use wood then). As a DIY/hacker type thing rather than commercial, it might fly. Maybe try to get a story in Make Magazine because there seems to be a trendy new crowd of DIY/hacker types nowadays, who weren't around a couple years ago. Or get it made at one of the rapid-prototyping shops. For every type of RP technology there are multiple shops doing on-demand prototypes. In any event, the case design could be posted on http://www.thingiverse.com/ and maybe someone who has a RepRap or similar can try to make a prototype. There was a design contest going on but I guess the time has passed: http://blog.makezine.com/archive/2010/04/makerbot_giveaway.html ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Openmoko Beagle Hybrid
The problem is not technology or DIY capabilities, but cost. What we want to have is a nice case achievable for everybody, not only the enthusiast who wants to spend time and money for experimenting with DIY hardware or commercial FDM. So the question is how much does a SW developer want to pay to get HW + Case? Let's say 50 EUR per plastic case. FDM is at least 200 EUR (that is what we got as a quotation from the rapid-prototyping shops for a simple part and not the whole case). Or 700 EUR for a Cupcake. Or 5k for a protomold made thing. Or 10-20k EUR for a 3D printer. A full freerunner case consists of 6 plastic parts (incl. 2 buttons). The other side is expectation of quality/robustness. I have been told by experts who own a RepRap/CupCake that the precision is not good enough to reproduce a Freerunner case (wall thickness 0.5mm). Am 17.05.2010 um 06:03 schrieb Shawn Rutledge: On Tue, May 11, 2010 at 12:56 AM, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller h...@computer.org wrote: has fixed dimensions) and we can't afford to build plastic injection moulds (if someone has an idea how to reduce cost this is very welcome). So the easiest solution was to combine what we have: a given Beagleboard and the Freerunner case. Personally I don't see what the big deal is with mold-making. Anybody could start a business doing that if it's so lucrative: get a Harbor Freight or other cheap milling machine and some blocks of aluminum, and develop the skill to do sufficiently accurate machining. (I have tried a little milling but my skill level definitely needs a lot of improvement; maybe it will if I ever get around to doing enough of it.) Of course CNC would be nice, but again, what's the big deal...3 steppers or servo motors and a controller... As someone else mentioned the Chinese obviously aren't having too much trouble with mold-making. It's also within the realm of possibility to make your own injection molding machine. There is a book (Gingery) about how to do that, but there is nothing too exotic in that book either... it's just a heated cylinder and piston arrangement with a lever to apply the pressure. Hot plastic comes squirting out, and you have your mold clamped in place to receive it. Alternatives include building a RepRap, making the plastic parts directly, and putting up with rough, inaccurate results; buying a better rapid prototyping machine (FDM type or laser sintering or the type that builds up parts from thin laminates); or directly CNC-milling the cases (you could even use wood then). As a DIY/hacker type thing rather than commercial, it might fly. Maybe try to get a story in Make Magazine because there seems to be a trendy new crowd of DIY/hacker types nowadays, who weren't around a couple years ago. Or get it made at one of the rapid-prototyping shops. For every type of RP technology there are multiple shops doing on-demand prototypes. In any event, the case design could be posted on http://www.thingiverse.com/ and maybe someone who has a RepRap or similar can try to make a prototype. There was a design contest going on but I guess the time has passed: http://blog.makezine.com/archive/2010/04/makerbot_giveaway.html ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Openmoko Beagle Hybrid
The problem is not technology or DIY capabilities, but cost. What we want to have is a nice case achievable for everybody, not only the enthusiast who wants to spend time and money for experimenting with DIY hardware or commercial FDM. So the question is how much does a SW developer want to pay to get HW + Case? Let's say 50 EUR per plastic case. FDM is at least 200 EUR (that is what we got as a quotation from the rapid-prototyping shops for a simple part and not the whole case). Or 700 EUR for a Cupcake. Or 5k for a protomold made thing. Or 10-20k EUR for a 3D printer. A full freerunner case consists of 6 plastic parts (incl. 2 buttons). The other side is expectation of quality/robustness. I have been told by experts who own a RepRap/CupCake that the precision is not good enough to reproduce a Freerunner case (wall thickness 0.5mm). So if we find a method that allows to make 10 units from a budget of 500 EUR or 100 units from a total budget of 5000 EUR I am happy! Am 17.05.2010 um 06:03 schrieb Shawn Rutledge: On Tue, May 11, 2010 at 12:56 AM, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller h...@computer.org wrote: has fixed dimensions) and we can't afford to build plastic injection moulds (if someone has an idea how to reduce cost this is very welcome). So the easiest solution was to combine what we have: a given Beagleboard and the Freerunner case. Personally I don't see what the big deal is with mold-making. Anybody could start a business doing that if it's so lucrative: get a Harbor Freight or other cheap milling machine and some blocks of aluminum, and develop the skill to do sufficiently accurate machining. (I have tried a little milling but my skill level definitely needs a lot of improvement; maybe it will if I ever get around to doing enough of it.) Of course CNC would be nice, but again, what's the big deal...3 steppers or servo motors and a controller... As someone else mentioned the Chinese obviously aren't having too much trouble with mold-making. It's also within the realm of possibility to make your own injection molding machine. There is a book (Gingery) about how to do that, but there is nothing too exotic in that book either... it's just a heated cylinder and piston arrangement with a lever to apply the pressure. Hot plastic comes squirting out, and you have your mold clamped in place to receive it. Alternatives include building a RepRap, making the plastic parts directly, and putting up with rough, inaccurate results; buying a better rapid prototyping machine (FDM type or laser sintering or the type that builds up parts from thin laminates); or directly CNC-milling the cases (you could even use wood then). As a DIY/hacker type thing rather than commercial, it might fly. Maybe try to get a story in Make Magazine because there seems to be a trendy new crowd of DIY/hacker types nowadays, who weren't around a couple years ago. Or get it made at one of the rapid-prototyping shops. For every type of RP technology there are multiple shops doing on-demand prototypes. In any event, the case design could be posted on http://www.thingiverse.com/ and maybe someone who has a RepRap or similar can try to make a prototype. There was a design contest going on but I guess the time has passed: http://blog.makezine.com/archive/2010/04/makerbot_giveaway.html ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
