Re: firmware Re: IMEI
Hi, Is it possible to extract/overwrite the firmware from the chip? Does anybody know how to do it? Thanks --- On Mon, 8/4/08, Joerg Reisenweber [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Joerg Reisenweber [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: firmware Re: IMEI To: community@lists.openmoko.org Cc: Mikko Rauhala [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Monday, August 4, 2008, 1:13 AM Am So 3. August 2008 schrieb Mikko Rauhala: su, 2008-08-03 kello 04:12 -0700, Learning It kirjoitti: Do we have sources of firmware for GSM chipset? No. Actually OM *has*, but they are under heavy NDA. Probably this also is the reason we must not provide FW-updates for users. Even the binary might open a path to change IMEI or reverse engineer other details of Calypso. /jOERG ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
GNU Radio (Was: firmware Re: IMEI)
Hello, On Sun, Aug 3, 2008 at 9:31 PM, Esben Stien [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Really none of the firmware is open. We should be looking at putting GNU Radio inside the Neo;). Has anyone looked into this?. It shouldn't be illegal to sell such a device, cause GNU Radio boards are not illegal. There also is a GSM project related to GNU Radio to do the whole GSM stack in software, to my understanding. GNU Radio[1] boards - I guess you mean the USRP[2]? Based on the hardware requirements[3], none of the current Neos have enough cpu power to use a GNU radio board. See also the politics[4] section - IMHO, SDR[5] is going to get outlawed as soon as someone tries to use it to circumvent established networks (like the GSM network). Governments reacts slowly to change. References: 1) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU_Radio 2) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Software_Radio_Peripheral 3) http://www.gnu.org/software/gnuradio/doc/exploring-gnuradio.html#hardware-requirements 4) http://www.gnu.org/software/gnuradio/doc/exploring-gnuradio.html#politics 5) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software-defined_radio -- Regards, Torfinn Ingolfsen ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: firmware Re: IMEI
Considering what was discussed before, it's probably not possible to download the fw from the chip. If it indeed is such a big secret, the chip most likely has the firmware locked away. So unless there is a serious design flaw in the chip, you can't get the code. However, the fw can probably be overwritten (well, first erased and then rewritten). Without this ability the fw couldn't ever be updated. It's very unlikely, though, that *you* will be getting the required documentation or equipment for this, considering how big the secrecy is. tk Learning It kirjoitti: Hi, Is it possible to extract/overwrite the firmware from the chip? Does anybody know how to do it? Thanks --- On Mon, 8/4/08, Joerg Reisenweber [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Joerg Reisenweber [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: firmware Re: IMEI To: community@lists.openmoko.org Cc: Mikko Rauhala [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Monday, August 4, 2008, 1:13 AM Am So 3. August 2008 schrieb Mikko Rauhala: su, 2008-08-03 kello 04:12 -0700, Learning It kirjoitti: Do we have sources of firmware for GSM chipset? No. Actually OM *has*, but they are under heavy NDA. Probably this also is the reason we must not provide FW-updates for users. Even the binary might open a path to change IMEI or reverse engineer other details of Calypso. /jOERG ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
firmware Re: IMEI
Hi Do we have sources of firmware for GSM chipset? --- On Sat, 8/2/08, Mikko Rauhala [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Mikko Rauhala [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: IMEI To: community@lists.openmoko.org Date: Saturday, August 2, 2008, 7:36 PM la, 2008-08-02 kello 12:17 -0700, Learning It kirjoitti: Where is stored IMEI? The GSM chipset. Could it be changed? Not in any documented manner. -- Mikko Rauhala - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - URL:http://www.iki.fi/mjr/ Transhumanist - WTA member - URL:http://www.transhumanism.org/ Singularitarian - SIAI supporter - URL:http://www.singinst.org/ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: firmware Re: IMEI
su, 2008-08-03 kello 04:12 -0700, Learning It kirjoitti: Do we have sources of firmware for GSM chipset? No. -- Mikko Rauhala - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - URL:http://www.iki.fi/mjr/ Transhumanist - WTA member - URL:http://www.transhumanism.org/ Singularitarian - SIAI supporter - URL:http://www.singinst.org/ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: firmware Re: IMEI
It means that this project is not totaly open to communityhmmm --- On Sun, 8/3/08, Mikko Rauhala [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Mikko Rauhala [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: firmware Re: IMEI To: community@lists.openmoko.org Date: Sunday, August 3, 2008, 11:18 AM su, 2008-08-03 kello 04:12 -0700, Learning It kirjoitti: Do we have sources of firmware for GSM chipset? No. -- Mikko Rauhala - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - URL:http://www.iki.fi/mjr/ Transhumanist - WTA member - URL:http://www.transhumanism.org/ Singularitarian - SIAI supporter - URL:http://www.singinst.org/ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: firmware Re: IMEI
no, we haven't, everything with GSM is in a very strict NDA. Learning It schrieb: Hi Do we have sources of firmware for GSM chipset? --- On Sat, 8/2/08, Mikko Rauhala [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Mikko Rauhala [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: IMEI To: community@lists.openmoko.org Date: Saturday, August 2, 2008, 7:36 PM la, 2008-08-02 kello 12:17 -0700, Learning It kirjoitti: Where is stored IMEI? The GSM chipset. Could it be changed? Not in any documented manner. -- Mikko Rauhala - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - URL:http://www.iki.fi/mjr/ Transhumanist - WTA member - URL:http://www.transhumanism.org/ Singularitarian - SIAI supporter - URL:http://www.singinst.org/ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: firmware Re: IMEI
Hi. Learning It schrieb: It means that this project is not totaly open to communityhmmm The fact that specs for the GSM chipset cannot be released to the public was communicated to the community from day 1. Furthermore there is no non-free stuff on the Linux side of things in the Freerunner. Regards Robert --- On Sun, 8/3/08, Mikko Rauhala [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Mikko Rauhala [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: firmware Re: IMEI To: community@lists.openmoko.org Date: Sunday, August 3, 2008, 11:18 AM su, 2008-08-03 kello 04:12 -0700, Learning It kirjoitti: Do we have sources of firmware for GSM chipset? No. -- Mikko Rauhala - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - URL:http://www.iki.fi/mjr/ Transhumanist - WTA member - URL:http://www.transhumanism.org/ Singularitarian - SIAI supporter - URL:http://www.singinst.org/ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: firmware Re: IMEI
i think harder than the gsm-nonfree-code are troubles with the glamo chip, i dont like to have a 3d-chip in my phone which does nothing expect of burning energy :( i think these NDA-troubles and the fact that there is no OpenGL ES driver are harder than don't have the gsm-firmware. regards, Arne Robert Schuster schrieb: Hi. Learning It schrieb: It means that this project is not totaly open to communityhmmm The fact that specs for the GSM chipset cannot be released to the public was communicated to the community from day 1. Furthermore there is no non-free stuff on the Linux side of things in the Freerunner. Regards Robert --- On Sun, 8/3/08, Mikko Rauhala [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Mikko Rauhala [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: firmware Re: IMEI To: community@lists.openmoko.org Date: Sunday, August 3, 2008, 11:18 AM su, 2008-08-03 kello 04:12 -0700, Learning It kirjoitti: Do we have sources of firmware for GSM chipset? No. -- Mikko Rauhala - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - URL:http://www.iki.fi/mjr/ Transhumanist - WTA member - URL:http://www.transhumanism.org/ Singularitarian - SIAI supporter - URL:http://www.singinst.org/ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: firmware Re: IMEI
There is any GSM chipset with full source codes on the net? --- On Sun, 8/3/08, Robert Schuster [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Robert Schuster [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: firmware Re: IMEI To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], List for Openmoko community discussion community@lists.openmoko.org Date: Sunday, August 3, 2008, 1:11 PM Hi. Learning It schrieb: It means that this project is not totaly open to communityhmmm The fact that specs for the GSM chipset cannot be released to the public was communicated to the community from day 1. Furthermore there is no non-free stuff on the Linux side of things in the Freerunner. Regards Robert --- On Sun, 8/3/08, Mikko Rauhala [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Mikko Rauhala [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: firmware Re: IMEI To: community@lists.openmoko.org Date: Sunday, August 3, 2008, 11:18 AM su, 2008-08-03 kello 04:12 -0700, Learning It kirjoitti: Do we have sources of firmware for GSM chipset? No. -- Mikko Rauhala - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - URL:http://www.iki.fi/mjr/ Transhumanist - WTA member - URL:http://www.transhumanism.org/ Singularitarian - SIAI supporter - URL:http://www.singinst.org/ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: firmware Re: IMEI
no, there isn't, this is because of the contracts and NDA's from all GSM-Cipset-Manufacturer. the GSM-System is one of the best secrets ;) - even better as the new BatMan-Movie Learning It schrieb: There is any GSM chipset with full source codes on the net? --- On Sun, 8/3/08, Robert Schuster [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Robert Schuster [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: firmware Re: IMEI To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], List for Openmoko community discussion community@lists.openmoko.org Date: Sunday, August 3, 2008, 1:11 PM Hi. Learning It schrieb: It means that this project is not totaly open to communityhmmm The fact that specs for the GSM chipset cannot be released to the public was communicated to the community from day 1. Furthermore there is no non-free stuff on the Linux side of things in the Freerunner. Regards Robert --- On Sun, 8/3/08, Mikko Rauhala [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Mikko Rauhala [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: firmware Re: IMEI To: community@lists.openmoko.org Date: Sunday, August 3, 2008, 11:18 AM su, 2008-08-03 kello 04:12 -0700, Learning It kirjoitti: Do we have sources of firmware for GSM chipset? No. -- Mikko Rauhala - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - URL:http://www.iki.fi/mjr/ Transhumanist - WTA member - URL:http://www.transhumanism.org/ Singularitarian - SIAI supporter - URL:http://www.singinst.org/ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: firmware Re: IMEI
Am Sonntag 03 August 2008 13:20:34 schrieb Learning It: It means that this project is not totaly open to communityhmmm Do you have source for the firmware of your bluetooth chipset, your GPS chipset, your WLAN chipset, your printer, your modem? GSM is a closed market, there is only a handfull of certified stacks available and these are considered mission critical trade secret -- whether we like that or not. Until the forseeable future, I don't see the powers allowing any open GSM stack (apart from the fact that such a thing doesn't exist) to be allowed to operate in public networks. -- :M: ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: firmware Re: IMEI
On Sun, 2008-08-03 at 07:24 -0700, Learning It wrote: There is any GSM chipset with full source codes on the net? That would be illegal in most places. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: firmware Re: IMEI
What about reverce engineering? I saw that some ppl were doing their mobile phones. It means somewhere exists such information. --- On Sun, 8/3/08, Michael 'Mickey' Lauer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Michael 'Mickey' Lauer [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: firmware Re: IMEI To: community@lists.openmoko.org Date: Sunday, August 3, 2008, 2:33 PM Am Sonntag 03 August 2008 13:20:34 schrieb Learning It: It means that this project is not totaly open to communityhmmm Do you have source for the firmware of your bluetooth chipset, your GPS chipset, your WLAN chipset, your printer, your modem? GSM is a closed market, there is only a handfull of certified stacks available and these are considered mission critical trade secret -- whether we like that or not. Until the forseeable future, I don't see the powers allowing any open GSM stack (apart from the fact that such a thing doesn't exist) to be allowed to operate in public networks. -- :M: ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: firmware Re: IMEI
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi The problem because the GSM chip has a closed firmware is because *laws* in U.S. and I think also in other countries say that used must to to have access to it. Because it is a law, and Openmoko can not to go against laws, it was told starting by day 1 that it will remain closed. It Openmoko would not did so, it will be very difficult that it could get the FCC approvation for its devices. This law was done because a not running GSM firmware will not only make your device not running, but also the devices that are near to you. About the imei, I can confirm that is against laws to change it. Regards Michele Renda Learning It wrote: What about reverce engineering? I saw that some ppl were doing their mobile phones. It means somewhere exists such information. --- On Sun, 8/3/08, Michael 'Mickey' Lauer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Michael 'Mickey' Lauer [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: firmware Re: IMEI To: community@lists.openmoko.org Date: Sunday, August 3, 2008, 2:33 PM Am Sonntag 03 August 2008 13:20:34 schrieb Learning It: It means that this project is not totaly open to communityhmmm Do you have source for the firmware of your bluetooth chipset, your GPS chipset, your WLAN chipset, your printer, your modem? GSM is a closed market, there is only a handfull of certified stacks available and these are considered mission critical trade secret -- whether we like that or not. Until the forseeable future, I don't see the powers allowing any open GSM stack (apart from the fact that such a thing doesn't exist) to be allowed to operate in public networks. -- :M: ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFIlcb4SIAU/I6SkT0RArn5AKCM3JlVEfykCJyVbjqrV9IpsPQeeACeNuS3 iWY2gSEPsaRBzWodO1YeCjg= =nhPw -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: firmware Re: IMEI
Learning It [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: It means that this project is not totaly open to communityhmmm Really none of the firmware is open. We should be looking at putting GNU Radio inside the Neo;). Has anyone looked into this?. It shouldn't be illegal to sell such a device, cause GNU Radio boards are not illegal. There also is a GSM project related to GNU Radio to do the whole GSM stack in software, to my understanding. -- Esben Stien is [EMAIL PROTECTED] s a http://www. s tn m irc://irc. b - i . e/%23contact sip:b0ef@ e e jid:b0ef@n n ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: firmware Re: IMEI
Learning It wrote: What about reverce engineering? I saw that some ppl were doing their mobile phones. It means somewhere exists such information. I wouldn't bother trying to reverse-engineer the GSM firmware itself. The technical and legal barriers are too high for this to be a practical approach. Just accept that it is a black box, like the hard drive in your PC. However, it would be useful to talk about reverse-engineering and documenting the AT command set through which the GSM chipset is accessed. Much of it is standard, but there are some proprietary commands. It would be very useful if we could find (for example) commands to control echo suppression/cancellation in the Calypso chipset. These wiki pages are a good starting point: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Hardware:AT_Commands http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GTA01_and_GTA02_gsm_modem ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: firmware Re: IMEI
On 3 Aug 2008, at 20:31, Esben Stien wrote: Learning It [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: It means that this project is not totaly open to communityhmmm Really none of the firmware is open. We should be looking at putting GNU Radio inside the Neo;). Has anyone looked into this?. It shouldn't be illegal to sell such a device, cause GNU Radio boards are not illegal. There also is a GSM project related to GNU Radio to do the whole GSM stack in software, to my understanding. Your last sentence surprises me. I don't think a device running GNU Radio (or whatever) would be licensable - it would probably be illegal to sell or use it as a phone. I would think any device sold as a phone would have to be licensed by the FCC or whoever, and that they would make requirements that the device must be unable to do X, Y Z (where these are things that might interfere with other users), which would be impossible to guarantee with fully-open firmware. Stroller. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: firmware Re: IMEI
Am So 3. August 2008 schrieb Mikko Rauhala: su, 2008-08-03 kello 04:12 -0700, Learning It kirjoitti: Do we have sources of firmware for GSM chipset? No. Actually OM *has*, but they are under heavy NDA. Probably this also is the reason we must not provide FW-updates for users. Even the binary might open a path to change IMEI or reverse engineer other details of Calypso. /jOERG signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
