Re: iphone-haptic
On 03/03/2008, Ortwin Regel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have doubts about the usefulness of vibrator feedback. It can't help you find a button or tell you whether you pressed the right one. All it does is tell you that you pressed a button at all. That might be a well, that mimics the feedback i would get from any keyboard. barring the keys with the tiny raised bumps on them, there is nothing to indicate a given key has been located. but the 'click' as the key moves down tells me that i have pressed it hard enough to register, and the vibration could replace this on the neo most users will register the click/vibration quicker than the character appearing on the screen, particularly those who look at the keyboard rather than the screen (lots of us) true, it can't help a key be located (whereas i can feel the edge of real keys) before it's pressed, but it's still a step better than a smooth kb with no feedback at all ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: iphone-haptic
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Somebody in the thread at some point said: I played with the motion sensors just eyeballing the raw data in hex and I think they're going to be very responsive and cool. Motion sensors? motion sensors are accelerometers...isn't it? how can they be useful for this feature?..I though it was a vibrator issue only...(and touch screen of course) Wah I guess I got the wrong end of the stick, I was really responding to the software shouldn't hold the thing up aspect. The vibrator does have some amount of PWM (intensity levels) support, how repeatable that is over different devices I don't know. Also it would be fairly do-able to put curves of vibrator intensity over time to some extent. But in the end what we have is an electric motor with a funny shaped bit of metal on the end to work with. It wasn't clear from the pic on that site what this actuator is, it could be basically what we have. - -Andy -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFHy93SOjLpvpq7dMoRAnKFAKCUMpj82R6UpHeX1x93X2x9qFIDfgCfS+yf oQcHKBCm59Rd2p6shU/1zd4= =uYzQ -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: iphone-haptic
On 3/3/08, Gilbert Hartmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Does anyone know how this compares to the feedback on the Wii when using the keyboard? It sounds fairly similar (save for the Wii's lack of a touchscreen) - --Bert It should be similar but there is a major difference: On the Wii you get vibration feedback all the time while you are pointing at the screen. On the Neo you only get vibration feedback when touching the screen and touching the screen already means that you are pressing a button. (On a standard touchscreen keyboard at least.) To make vibration feedback with a tapping-keyboard more useful, the force of the vibration could indicate whether you hit a key right in the middle or more to the rim (and thus maybe hit the wrong key). I'm not sure how much the force of a short vibration can be tuned on the Neo but this is certainly something worth finding out. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: iphone-haptic
Andrea Debortoli ha scritto: It's an hard thing to tell if it could be useful or not...it's a totally new feature (I've never seen something similar), and I think we can evaluate it with practical test only. I've an old iFeel Logitech mouse with haptic support (vibrate on actions). Under Linux I only got it vibrate, but I was planning to make it interact also with the xserver actions, maybe this work should be used by Openmoko too... -- Treviño's World - Life and Linux http://www.3v1n0.net/ ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
iphone-haptic
what about this?? http://code.google.com/p/iphone-haptics/ it would be very useful to have on FreeRunner too!!! ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: iphone-haptic
That looks like it could potentially be extremely useful! However, adding features to the Freerunner at this stage would presumably delay it even more. Personally, I'd be willing to wait another month if it meant that the Freerunner had such features. This would address one of the biggest problems with touch screens -- the lack of tactile feedback. :-) On Sun, Mar 2, 2008 at 11:49 AM, Andrea Debortoli [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: what about this?? http://code.google.com/p/iphone-haptics/ it would be very useful to have on FreeRunner too!!! ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: iphone-haptic
2008/3/2, Tim Kersten [EMAIL PROTECTED]: That looks like it could potentially be extremely useful! However, adding features to the Freerunner at this stage would presumably delay it even more. Personally, I'd be willing to wait another month if it meant that the Freerunner had such features. This would address one of the biggest problems with touch screens -- the lack of tactile feedback. :-) That would surely be a software feature...so it could become available after hardware release of FreeRunner!! I want it! On Sun, Mar 2, 2008 at 11:49 AM, Andrea Debortoli [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: what about this?? http://code.google.com/p/iphone-haptics/ it would be very useful to have on FreeRunner too!!! ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: iphone-haptic
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Somebody in the thread at some point said: 2008/3/2, Tim Kersten [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]: That looks like it could potentially be extremely useful! However, adding features to the Freerunner at this stage would presumably delay That would surely be a software feature...so it could become available after hardware release of FreeRunner!! I want it! Yes don't stop wanting :-) We wouldn't delay anything for it but as you say this is only in the software world and can come at its own speed. You can get motion sensor data just by reading from /dev/input/event2 and 3 one for each motion sensor. I played with the motion sensors just eyeballing the raw data in hex and I think they're going to be very responsive and cool. - -Andy -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFHysebOjLpvpq7dMoRApEJAJ49o5G1TU4O1nGIZx051TmujfQaLgCfS19m zJKX59ClV+6w3NNLj9ZaroM= =fxAj -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: iphone-haptic
Am So 2. März 2008 schrieb Andy Green: - gpg control packet Somebody in the thread at some point said: 2008/3/2, Tim Kersten [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]: That looks like it could potentially be extremely useful! However, adding features to the Freerunner at this stage would presumably delay That would surely be a software feature...so it could become available after hardware release of FreeRunner!! I want it! Yes don't stop wanting :-) We wouldn't delay anything for it but as you say this is only in the software world and can come at its own speed. From a first brief glance at this site, i don't think it's a sw-only feature. This actor is driven with sth like ...an approx. 175Hz sine wave with increasing intensity during the ramp up time and decreasing intensity during the ramp down time..., so to me it seems they really plumbed an actuator (Piezo?) directly to the screen. You surely can't do this with the common built-in vibrator motor (though you can give it a try). Mere Vibrator feedback on keypress shouldn't be any issue, even should be standard (best practice) for OM input devices. cheers jOERG ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: iphone-haptic
2008/3/2, joerg [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Am So 2. März 2008 schrieb Andy Green: - gpg control packet Somebody in the thread at some point said: 2008/3/2, Tim Kersten [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]: That looks like it could potentially be extremely useful! However, adding features to the Freerunner at this stage would presumably delay That would surely be a software feature...so it could become available after hardware release of FreeRunner!! I want it! Yes don't stop wanting :-) We wouldn't delay anything for it but as you say this is only in the software world and can come at its own speed. From a first brief glance at this site, i don't think it's a sw-only feature. This actor is driven with sth like ...an approx. 175Hz sine wave with increasing intensity during the ramp up time and decreasing intensity during the ramp down time..., so to me it seems they really plumbed an actuator (Piezo?) directly to the screen. You surely can't do this with the common built-in vibrator motor (though you can give it a try). They are using: iPhone's built-in vibrotactile actuator I don't know what sort of actuator iPhone is carrying...but they discovered the actuator can vibrate at 12 different speeds, so maybe it's possible to discover it on FreeRunner too:-)) Mere Vibrator feedback on keypress shouldn't be any issue, even should be standard (best practice) for OM input devices. cheers jOERG ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: iphone-haptic
2008/3/2, Andy Green [EMAIL PROTECTED]: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Somebody in the thread at some point said: 2008/3/2, Tim Kersten [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]: That looks like it could potentially be extremely useful! However, adding features to the Freerunner at this stage would presumably delay That would surely be a software feature...so it could become available after hardware release of FreeRunner!! I want it! Yes don't stop wanting :-) We wouldn't delay anything for it but as you say this is only in the software world and can come at its own speed. You can get motion sensor data just by reading from /dev/input/event2 and 3 one for each motion sensor. I played with the motion sensors just eyeballing the raw data in hex and I think they're going to be very responsive and cool. Motion sensors? motion sensors are accelerometers...isn't it? how can they be useful for this feature?..I though it was a vibrator issue only...(and touch screen of course) - -Andy -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFHysebOjLpvpq7dMoRApEJAJ49o5G1TU4O1nGIZx051TmujfQaLgCfS19m zJKX59ClV+6w3NNLj9ZaroM= =fxAj -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: iphone-haptic
On 3/2/08, Andrea Debortoli [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: what about this?? http://code.google.com/p/iphone-haptics/ it would be very useful to have on FreeRunner too!!! I have doubts about the usefulness of vibrator feedback. It can't help you find a button or tell you whether you pressed the right one. All it does is tell you that you pressed a button at all. That might be a little better than no feedback at all but it can't replace much of the visual or audible feedback. To make this more useful, interaction with the touchscreen would need to include more sliding motions and less tapping because with a sliding motion you can give constant vibration feedback. Ortwin ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: iphone-haptic
2008/3/2, Ortwin Regel [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I have doubts about the usefulness of vibrator feedback. It can't help you find a button or tell you whether you pressed the right one. Actually it CAN help you find a button. Please read the section Fingertip-Over-Edge Event in the article. I think it's some kind of sliding-keyboard which enters the character on which you release your finger. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: iphone-haptic
It's an hard thing to tell if it could be useful or not...it's a totally new feature (I've never seen something similar), and I think we can evaluate it with practical test only. 2008/3/2, Marko Knöbl [EMAIL PROTECTED]: 2008/3/2, Ortwin Regel [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I have doubts about the usefulness of vibrator feedback. It can't help you find a button or tell you whether you pressed the right one. Actually it CAN help you find a button. Please read the section Fingertip-Over-Edge Event in the article. I think it's some kind of sliding-keyboard which enters the character on which you release your finger. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: iphone-haptic
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Tim Kersten wrote: That looks like it could potentially be extremely useful! However, adding features to the Freerunner at this stage would presumably delay it even more. Personally, I'd be willing to wait another month if it meant that the Freerunner had such features. This would address one of the biggest problems with touch screens -- the lack of tactile feedback. :-) On Sun, Mar 2, 2008 at 11:49 AM, Andrea Debortoli [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: what about this?? http://code.google.com/p/iphone-haptics/ it would be very useful to have on FreeRunner too!!! ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community Does anyone know how this compares to the feedback on the Wii when using the keyboard? It sounds fairly similar (save for the Wii's lack of a touchscreen) - --Bert -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFHy5fRVfxFjPpfJ3oRAsBhAJ4+514hSQDMYd5Ecu5VbvQADn5qsACfQW0g g/wHJuEUhKQZDVbOVGMfdkM= =+wSQ -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
