Re: the second operating system
On Tue 10 December 2013 21:12:02 Bernard Schelberg wrote: > > -- Forwarded message -- > > From: joerg Reisenweber > > To: community@lists.openmoko.org > > Cc: > > Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2013 01:00:13 +0100 > > Subject: Re: the second operating system > > > > On Mon 09 December 2013 19:32:28 Norayr Chilingarian wrote: > > > There is an osnews article named "The second operating system hiding in > > > every mobile phone", and I guess some people in this list may be > > > interested. Not that we didn't know about it, just wanted to share an > > > article with you. > > > > > > http://www.osnews.com/story/27416/The_second_operating_system_hiding_in > > > _eve ry_mobile_phone > > > > This article is of pretty poor quality and quite misleading. :-S > > Deprecated! > > Do you have a better article on this subject that you can recommend? > Or could you explain some more about how it is misleading? The reason > I ask is that I'm having an ongoing conversation with colleagues about > why I continue to support projects that are working to bring us a free > phone. I thought the article referenced made some convincing points, > but I don't want to quote it if it's incorrect. The article completely lacks any discussion of how entangled or not entangled the modem is with the "first OS". On dumbphones there's even no "first OS" at all and the whole phone UI is handled by the modem OS. While on free phones like GTA0x and Neo900[1] the modem is as much a part of "the first OS" as e.g. a USB stick you plug to your PC is running a "second OS" on your PC. We actually have ~12 .. 15 "other OSes" running on any modern PC or smartphone, basically every smart chip comes with its own CPU that of course needs an "OS". The modem is just another extremely large and smart "chip" of that category, but it's not at all entangled with the primary OS - ON FREE PHONES. For the usually android crap things look different, since often main CPU and modem share same chip and same RAM and you never can tell what the modem OS could do to the main OS. Hope that explained a bit of what I miss in that article. It's not incorrect but simply not comprehensive and thus misleading. A modem OS is exactly NOT similar to a PC BIOS "second OS" (see my other post). The article creates such misconceptions. cheers jOERG [1] http://neo900.org/faq#privacy -- () ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail /\ www.asciiribbon.org - against proprietary attachments (alas the above page got scrapped due to resignation(!!), so here some supplementary links:) http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil.shtml http://www.nonhtmlmail.org/campaign.html http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil_still.shtml http://www.gerstbach.at/2004/ascii/ (German) signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: the second operating system
> -- Forwarded message -- > From: joerg Reisenweber > To: community@lists.openmoko.org > Cc: > Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2013 01:00:13 +0100 > Subject: Re: the second operating system > On Mon 09 December 2013 19:32:28 Norayr Chilingarian wrote: > > There is an osnews article named "The second operating system hiding in > > every mobile phone", and I guess some people in this list may be > > interested. Not that we didn't know about it, just wanted to share an > > article with you. > > > > http://www.osnews.com/story/27416/The_second_operating_system_hiding_in_eve > > ry_mobile_phone > > This article is of pretty poor quality and quite misleading. :-S > Deprecated! > Do you have a better article on this subject that you can recommend? Or could you explain some more about how it is misleading? The reason I ask is that I'm having an ongoing conversation with colleagues about why I continue to support projects that are working to bring us a free phone. I thought the article referenced made some convincing points, but I don't want to quote it if it's incorrect. Thanks, Bernie ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: the second operating system
Hi, Am 09.12.2013 um 19:32 schrieb Norayr Chilingarian: > > There is an osnews article named "The second operating system hiding in > every mobile phone", and I guess some people in this list may be > interested. Not that we didn't know about it, just wanted to share an > article with you. > > http://www.osnews.com/story/27416/The_second_operating_system_hiding_in_every_mobile_phone you may not have noticed, but this article was already linked and discussed on this list before: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2013-November/069089.html BR, Nikolaus PS: you car electronics may also run several (embedded) operating system. And the SIM card in your phone also runs a third one. Security is not inverse proportional to the number of OSes. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: the second operating system
On Tue 10 December 2013 14:42:56 Christoph Bänsch wrote: > I think that fact isn't new. The BIOS on a normal PC is a 'Second OS' too. > There is one big difference: the BIOS is safer than the firmware of an GSM > modem. The one big difference is: BIOS runs on main CPU, modem is a peripheral and for all "free phones" doesn't even share RAM with CPU. We have a third OS on lis302, a 4th on camera chip, a 5th inside PMU, on PC we have one in HDD and one in optical drive. We have one even in SD-card and so on and on /j -- () ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail /\ www.asciiribbon.org - against proprietary attachments (alas the above page got scrapped due to resignation(!!), so here some supplementary links:) http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil.shtml http://www.nonhtmlmail.org/campaign.html http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil_still.shtml http://www.gerstbach.at/2004/ascii/ (German) signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: the second operating system
I think that fact isn't new. The BIOS on a normal PC is a 'Second OS' too. There is one big difference: the BIOS is safer than the firmware of an GSM modem. But it's only my opinion Viele Grüße! Christoph Bänsch > Am 09.12.2013 um 19:32 schrieb Norayr Chilingarian : > > > There is an osnews article named "The second operating system hiding in > every mobile phone", and I guess some people in this list may be > interested. Not that we didn't know about it, just wanted to share an > article with you. > > http://www.osnews.com/story/27416/The_second_operating_system_hiding_in_every_mobile_phone > > > ___ > Openmoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: the second operating system
Hello, I nothing understand. Do you are tailing about the openphonux multi-boot ? Best regards mparchet > Le 10 déc. 2013 à 01:00, joerg Reisenweber a écrit : > >> On Mon 09 December 2013 19:32:28 Norayr Chilingarian wrote: >> There is an osnews article named "The second operating system hiding in >> every mobile phone", and I guess some people in this list may be >> interested. Not that we didn't know about it, just wanted to share an >> article with you. >> >> http://www.osnews.com/story/27416/The_second_operating_system_hiding_in_eve >> ry_mobile_phone > > This article is of pretty poor quality and quite misleading. :-S > Deprecated! > > /j > -- > () ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail > /\ www.asciiribbon.org - against proprietary attachments > (alas the above page got scrapped due to resignation(!!), so here some > supplementary links:) > http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil.shtml > http://www.nonhtmlmail.org/campaign.html > http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil_still.shtml > http://www.gerstbach.at/2004/ascii/ (German) > ___ > Openmoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: the second operating system
On Mon 09 December 2013 19:32:28 Norayr Chilingarian wrote: > There is an osnews article named "The second operating system hiding in > every mobile phone", and I guess some people in this list may be > interested. Not that we didn't know about it, just wanted to share an > article with you. > > http://www.osnews.com/story/27416/The_second_operating_system_hiding_in_eve > ry_mobile_phone This article is of pretty poor quality and quite misleading. :-S Deprecated! /j -- () ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail /\ www.asciiribbon.org - against proprietary attachments (alas the above page got scrapped due to resignation(!!), so here some supplementary links:) http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil.shtml http://www.nonhtmlmail.org/campaign.html http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil_still.shtml http://www.gerstbach.at/2004/ascii/ (German) signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
the second operating system
There is an osnews article named "The second operating system hiding in every mobile phone", and I guess some people in this list may be interested. Not that we didn't know about it, just wanted to share an article with you. http://www.osnews.com/story/27416/The_second_operating_system_hiding_in_every_mobile_phone ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
