Re: [Tinkerphones] [Arm-netbook] FOSDEM Hardware Enablement Devroom

[H. Nikolaus Schaller]

Hi Paul,
thanks for sharing!
BR,
Nikolaus

> Am 13.11.2017 um 11:57 schrieb Paul Kocialkowski :
> 
> A Hardware Enablement devroom will be taking place at FOSDEM this year,
> on Sunday [10 December 2017] 4th Feb 2018. This newly-created devroom 
> is the result of
> 3 proposals that were merged together. It is co-organized by several
> individuals.
> 
> The devroom covers all aspects related to hardware enablement and
> support with free software, including aspects related to boot software,
> firmwares, drivers and userspace tools and adaptation.
> 
> Proposals for talks related to these topics are welcome and can be
> submitted until Sunday 26 November 2017 via the pentabarf interface.
> Short talks are encouraged over longer ones in order to cover a wide
> range of topics.
> 
> The announcement for the devroom, that contains all the useful
> information, was published at:
> https://lists.fosdem.org/pipermail/fosdem/2017-October/002649.html
> 
> Cheers and see you at FOSDEM!
> 
> -- 
> Paul Kocialkowski, developer of free digital technology and hardware
> support
> 
> Website: https://www.paulk.fr/
> Coding blog: https://code.paulk.fr/
> Git repositories: https://git.paulk.fr/ https://git.code.paulk.fr/
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[Tinkerphones] Re : FOSDEM Hardware Enablement Devroom

[Paul Kocialkowski]

Hi,

Le lundi 13 novembre 2017 à 11:57 +0100, Paul Kocialkowski a écrit :
> A Hardware Enablement devroom will be taking place at FOSDEM this
> year, on Sunday 10 December 2017. This newly-created devroom is the
> result of 3 proposals that were merged together. It is co-organized by
> several individuals.

As it was pointed out on the Replicant mailing list, the devroom is
actually taking place on the Sunday  4 February 2018, not on december
2018.

> The devroom covers all aspects related to hardware enablement and
> support with free software, including aspects related to boot
> software,
> firmwares, drivers and userspace tools and adaptation.
> 
> Proposals for talks related to these topics are welcome and can be
> submitted until Sunday 26 November 2017 via the pentabarf interface.
> Short talks are encouraged over longer ones in order to cover a wide
> range of topics.
> 
> The announcement for the devroom, that contains all the useful
> information, was published at:
> https://lists.fosdem.org/pipermail/fosdem/2017-October/002649.html
> 
> Cheers and see you at FOSDEM!

Cheers,

-- 
Paul Kocialkowski, developer of free digital technology and hardware
support

Website: https://www.paulk.fr/
Coding blog: https://code.paulk.fr/
Git repositories: https://git.paulk.fr/ https://git.code.paulk.fr/

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Re: [Tinkerphones] New tinkerphone gadgets in Goldelico shop?

[Belisko Marek]

Hi Nikolaus,

On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 12:12 PM, H. Nikolaus Schaller
 wrote:
> Hi Marek,
>
>> Am 13.11.2017 um 11:45 schrieb Belisko Marek :
>>
>> On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 11:42 AM, Belisko Marek  
>> wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 8:33 AM, H. Nikolaus Schaller  
>>> wrote:
 Hi all,

> Am 04.11.2017 um 22:17 schrieb Niels :
>
> "H. Nikolaus Schaller"  writes:
>
>> Hi Paul,
>>
>>> Am 03.11.2017 um 13:06 schrieb Paul Boddie :
>>>
>>> On Friday 3. November 2017 10.54.44 H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote:
> Am 03.11.2017 um 10:32 schrieb Thomas Munker :
>
> i would like to see some small cryptographic hardware, like eg. 
> yubikey.
> At best easy interfaceable to gta02/gta04 or with necessary interface
> hardware

 I have checked what they have:

 https://www.yubico.com/product/yubikey-4-series/
 

 It seems they offer USB-A and USB-C. So neither Mini nor Micro-USB. So 
 it
 needs a proper adapter.
>>>
>>> There is an article on LWN.net about these devices and others:
>>>
>>> https://lwn.net/Articles/736231/
>>>
>>> It covers the Yubikey NEO and Yubikey 4 plus the Nitrokey Pro and 
>>> FST-01.
>>
>> Interesting reading!
>>
>> To me it looks as if it would best fit our community to simply build
>> enough FST-01 units, so that they are not out of stock...
>>
>> Everything is said to be free and open, even if the device isn't the 
>> fastest one:
>>
>> https://github.com/vinaebizs/fst-01
>> https://raw.githubusercontent.com/SeeedDocument/FST-01/master/img/Fst-01-schematic.png
>>
>> So it looks not very difficult to have them produced and stocked by us at
>> a reasonable price.

>
> I agree.
>
> I have been wanting a FST-01 for a while, but not found any place to
> buy one.

 I have studied the schematics and it will take less than 1 day to prepare 
 for
 producing some clone...

 Cost is also reasonable, e.g. something below 30€ seems feasible for tiny
 quantities (if produced in batches of 10). So it is possible to provide
 permanent supply.

 What I understood is that it needs some flashing tool to be connected to
 a jumper. Maybe someone can elaborate this.

 One thing is to be discussed about the USB interface:

 Should we keep the USB-A plug or try to replace it by an Mini-USB-A so that
 it can be directly plugged into a GTA0x?

 Or even 3 variants with Standard-USB, MiniUSB and µUSB? Or does someone 
 have
 an idea if multiple sockets are feasible?

 USB-C makes no sense IMHO, because then a much faster processor with USB3 
 speed
 should be used... This would be a completely different project.

 So what can be the next steps?
 * I await your comments and comments about being interested
 * maybe someone should take care about the programming procedures
>>> I have experience with programming stm32 (there exists stm32uart
>>> utility which can burn SW) but in this case I'm unsure.
>>> Does stm32 boot from external spi flash or external spi flash is used
>>> for something else?
>> In meantime I found that it's possible via ST-link only:
>> http://wiki.seeed.cc/FST-01/
>> also here: 
>> http://www.gniibe.org/memo/development/fst-01/dongle/fst-01-swd-connection.html
>> so if we do new design maybe would be good to add for user possibility
>> to update FW.
>
> Nice finding!
>
> Well, this would mean that we have to clone the ST-link device (where I have 
> not
> yet an idea what is inside) and add another USB socket.
>
> But there seem to be clones:
>
> https://www.gearbest.com/development-boards/pp_62989.html?currency=EUR=2275155=CjwKCAiAoqXQBRA8EiwAIIOWstP9pf8EWlN1SaHyGVUZzDDjkmMVt329W6Misb_BTv_HxOqSr28UMxoCQ_8QAvD_BwE
>
> Hm. Well, the ST-Link device is another Microcontroller with built-in 
> firmware.
> So how do we flash that :)
OK chicken-egg problem ;). I'm not sure which interface is using
stlink but for sure I know that stm32 can be programmed vie serial
interface using : https://github.com/jsnyder/stm32ld
so maybe it will be necessary to have connector for update process (or
even bettre to usb usb serial converter on board and other usb port to
flash software). BTW we have only schematics do we have also SW which
will run in stm32?
>
> BR,
> Nikolaus
>
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BR,

marek

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Re: [Tinkerphones] New tinkerphone gadgets in Goldelico shop?

[Xavi Drudis Ferran]

El Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 11:36:16AM +0100, H. Nikolaus Schaller deia:
> 
> It works completely without case... In the spirit of tinkerers :)
> 
> But a printed case is welcome and easy: my idea is to use the same
> shape as the GTA04 board so a spare Openmoko case would suffice.
> And there had been 3D data around to print such cases.
>

Well, I don't care about the PCB shape. This is as good for me as any other. 
A new case should be easier if the PCB was rectangular, just measure where the
connectors go, I guess? 

The only advantage I can think of for having the same PCB shape as
GTA04 is that with some case or something acting as spacers you could
maybe stack 2 or 3 chargers with their batteries and the phone on top,
and save desk space w.r.t. horizontally placed chargers (which was my
first thought). Not terribly worth spending any time on, possibly. But
vertically stacking chargers would make inserting and removing
batteries phisically more difficult, wouldn't it? It is desirable not
to have to unchain the chargers to replace batteries in them. But if
the vertical space between chargers is large enough to comfortably
insert and remove batteries, the daisy chain connectors won't touch
without some extra complication ?

> 
> 800mA each. You just need a sufficiently powerful 5V supply for each battery.
>

That would be doable. For me it would be better to have a single 5V, 2A  or 3A
for 2 or 3 batteries, or whatever, than needing 2 or 3 supplies or a power hub. 
If a non USB connector helps reducing the wall sockets , cables or suppliers
needed, then that'd be a good option. 

> That is all inside the charger chip. It trickle charges if needed and turns
> automatically off if battery is full. I am quite sure that Texas Instruments 
> and
> their customers have already thought of everything when designing these 
> chips...
> They are used in millions of digital cameras, gps devices, smartphones etc.
> where user's don't care about the health of batteries.
>

Great.
 
> Maybe if you have a notebook with multiple USB sockets it would only
> need to carry extra cables.
>

I don't know about others, but I tend to have the USB sockets I need 
(or sometimes less). So I still would need some dedicated hub for charging, 
most likely. 
 
> There are also USB power supply devices like this (I don't know if this
> specific one is good): https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=13915
>

Yes maybe stock some of these or similar to simplify buying with the charger. 
It'd still be simpler for me the more integrated it could be, but it's 
not really necessary, just convenient. 
 
> > 
> > It's ok but if something could be done to eliminate components it would be 
> > even more convenient. Remember those AAA rechargeable battery chargers ?
> > They have several slots (at least 2) and you don't need many of them. Some
> > plug directly to a wall socket and you don't even need a plug. This is 
> > asking too much, but maybe some reduction in components is still possible.
> 
> Well, there aren't many to be reduced. You always need a battery connector
> for each slot and a charger chip for each battery (batteries may be 
> differently
> filled and become full at different times).
>

I may have misused the term. I didn't mean electronic components, just
"solution components".  Meaning gadgets on my desk or in my suitcase.
Individual pieces taking space and (a very little) complexity when using it.
Even if it is a tinkerphone, I don't think people love to tinker when 
doing vegetative stuff like charging. You just want something that doesn't 
give you a badly connected cable 20% of the time, or complicates 
cleaning the dust or ... But maybe it's just me. 
 
> So the only thing you can share is the connector to some wall outlet and
> the wall charger.
>

just this only sharing would be attractive. 
  
> > 
> > Maybe an optional version with more battery places or maybe some male
> > and female connector in opposite sides so you could daisy chain 2 or 3
> > of those chargers side by side without needing cables and without a
> > powered hub
> 
> That looks like an interesting idea!
>

Side to side ? or stacked one in top of another ? 
can you daisy chain the phone too (easier if the connector is USB) ? 
 
> > (but then it's no longer USB 2?).
> 
> Well, charging doesn't need to be 100% compliant. It can be seen as "just
> another connector type" for a 5V 2A power supply.
> 

Ah, ok, I thought there might be some advantage to USB compliancee
about possible compatibility with cables or connectors or something.

But you could also daisy chain with barrel connectors if that helps at
all (in case the total power wasn't feasible for USB and took a
dedicated supply or something). USB seems preferable if possible.

> Maybe it should be possible to limit charging current to 500mA each so
> that you can chain up to 4 units with a 2A supply.
> 

Well, for me charging slowly is usually no problem if I can leave all
batteries I need to charge 

Re: [Tinkerphones] New tinkerphone gadgets in Goldelico shop?

[H. Nikolaus Schaller]

Hi Jonas,

> Am 13.11.2017 um 12:05 schrieb Jonas Smedegaard :
> 
> Quoting H. Nikolaus Schaller (2017-11-13 11:38:07)
>> 
>>> Am 13.11.2017 um 11:31 schrieb Jonas Smedegaard :
>>> 
>>> Quoting H. Nikolaus Schaller (2017-11-13 08:33:45)
 Am 04.11.2017 um 22:17 schrieb Niels :
> I have been wanting a FST-01 for a while, but not found any place to 
> buy one.
 
 I have studied the schematics and it will take less than 1 day to 
 prepare for producing some clone...
 
 Cost is also reasonable, e.g. something below 30€ seems feasible for 
 tiny quantities (if produced in batches of 10). So it is possible to 
 provide permanent supply.
 
 What I understood is that it needs some flashing tool to be connected 
 to a jumper. Maybe someone can elaborate this.
 
 One thing is to be discussed about the USB interface:
 
 Should we keep the USB-A plug or try to replace it by an Mini-USB-A so 
 that it can be directly plugged into a GTA0x?
 
 Or even 3 variants with Standard-USB, MiniUSB and µUSB? Or does 
 someone have an idea if multiple sockets are feasible?
>>> 
>>> I would buy a microUSB model if made - and I believe it could be made to 
>>> work with standard Android for those using F-droid, and therefore have 
>>> potential users among those too.
>> 
>> Ah, yes. Many Android devices have an µUSB OTG port.
>> 
>> Hm. I wonder if we can build/design one with multiple plugs so that 
>> one-fits-all.
> 
> Uhm, I withdraw my promise to buy one, until I understand if it is gonna 
> be a frankenstein model: I would want something sensible to survive 
> carrying in a pocket (and the pocket surviving that too).

Maybe we can just have one PCB where we can easily install this or that
connector (on either end). This would simplify production but you can
still get one with µUSB socket.

BR,
Nikolaus


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Re: [Tinkerphones] New tinkerphone gadgets in Goldelico shop?

[H. Nikolaus Schaller]

Hi Marek,

> Am 13.11.2017 um 11:45 schrieb Belisko Marek :
> 
> On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 11:42 AM, Belisko Marek  
> wrote:
>> Hi,
>> 
>> On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 8:33 AM, H. Nikolaus Schaller  
>> wrote:
>>> Hi all,
>>> 
 Am 04.11.2017 um 22:17 schrieb Niels :
 
 "H. Nikolaus Schaller"  writes:
 
> Hi Paul,
> 
>> Am 03.11.2017 um 13:06 schrieb Paul Boddie :
>> 
>> On Friday 3. November 2017 10.54.44 H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote:
 Am 03.11.2017 um 10:32 schrieb Thomas Munker :
 
 i would like to see some small cryptographic hardware, like eg. 
 yubikey.
 At best easy interfaceable to gta02/gta04 or with necessary interface
 hardware
>>> 
>>> I have checked what they have:
>>> 
>>> https://www.yubico.com/product/yubikey-4-series/
>>> 
>>> 
>>> It seems they offer USB-A and USB-C. So neither Mini nor Micro-USB. So 
>>> it
>>> needs a proper adapter.
>> 
>> There is an article on LWN.net about these devices and others:
>> 
>> https://lwn.net/Articles/736231/
>> 
>> It covers the Yubikey NEO and Yubikey 4 plus the Nitrokey Pro and FST-01.
> 
> Interesting reading!
> 
> To me it looks as if it would best fit our community to simply build
> enough FST-01 units, so that they are not out of stock...
> 
> Everything is said to be free and open, even if the device isn't the 
> fastest one:
> 
> https://github.com/vinaebizs/fst-01
> https://raw.githubusercontent.com/SeeedDocument/FST-01/master/img/Fst-01-schematic.png
> 
> So it looks not very difficult to have them produced and stocked by us at
> a reasonable price.
>>> 
 
 I agree.
 
 I have been wanting a FST-01 for a while, but not found any place to
 buy one.
>>> 
>>> I have studied the schematics and it will take less than 1 day to prepare 
>>> for
>>> producing some clone...
>>> 
>>> Cost is also reasonable, e.g. something below 30€ seems feasible for tiny
>>> quantities (if produced in batches of 10). So it is possible to provide
>>> permanent supply.
>>> 
>>> What I understood is that it needs some flashing tool to be connected to
>>> a jumper. Maybe someone can elaborate this.
>>> 
>>> One thing is to be discussed about the USB interface:
>>> 
>>> Should we keep the USB-A plug or try to replace it by an Mini-USB-A so that
>>> it can be directly plugged into a GTA0x?
>>> 
>>> Or even 3 variants with Standard-USB, MiniUSB and µUSB? Or does someone have
>>> an idea if multiple sockets are feasible?
>>> 
>>> USB-C makes no sense IMHO, because then a much faster processor with USB3 
>>> speed
>>> should be used... This would be a completely different project.
>>> 
>>> So what can be the next steps?
>>> * I await your comments and comments about being interested
>>> * maybe someone should take care about the programming procedures
>> I have experience with programming stm32 (there exists stm32uart
>> utility which can burn SW) but in this case I'm unsure.
>> Does stm32 boot from external spi flash or external spi flash is used
>> for something else?
> In meantime I found that it's possible via ST-link only:
> http://wiki.seeed.cc/FST-01/
> also here: 
> http://www.gniibe.org/memo/development/fst-01/dongle/fst-01-swd-connection.html
> so if we do new design maybe would be good to add for user possibility
> to update FW.

Nice finding!

Well, this would mean that we have to clone the ST-link device (where I have not
yet an idea what is inside) and add another USB socket.

But there seem to be clones:

https://www.gearbest.com/development-boards/pp_62989.html?currency=EUR=2275155=CjwKCAiAoqXQBRA8EiwAIIOWstP9pf8EWlN1SaHyGVUZzDDjkmMVt329W6Misb_BTv_HxOqSr28UMxoCQ_8QAvD_BwE

Hm. Well, the ST-Link device is another Microcontroller with built-in firmware.
So how do we flash that :)

BR,
Nikolaus

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Re: [Tinkerphones] New tinkerphone gadgets in Goldelico shop?

[Jonas Smedegaard]

Quoting H. Nikolaus Schaller (2017-11-13 11:38:07)
> 
> > Am 13.11.2017 um 11:31 schrieb Jonas Smedegaard :
> > 
> > Quoting H. Nikolaus Schaller (2017-11-13 08:33:45)
> >> Am 04.11.2017 um 22:17 schrieb Niels :
> >>> I have been wanting a FST-01 for a while, but not found any place to 
> >>> buy one.
> >> 
> >> I have studied the schematics and it will take less than 1 day to 
> >> prepare for producing some clone...
> >> 
> >> Cost is also reasonable, e.g. something below 30€ seems feasible for 
> >> tiny quantities (if produced in batches of 10). So it is possible to 
> >> provide permanent supply.
> >> 
> >> What I understood is that it needs some flashing tool to be connected 
> >> to a jumper. Maybe someone can elaborate this.
> >> 
> >> One thing is to be discussed about the USB interface:
> >> 
> >> Should we keep the USB-A plug or try to replace it by an Mini-USB-A so 
> >> that it can be directly plugged into a GTA0x?
> >> 
> >> Or even 3 variants with Standard-USB, MiniUSB and µUSB? Or does 
> >> someone have an idea if multiple sockets are feasible?
> > 
> > I would buy a microUSB model if made - and I believe it could be made to 
> > work with standard Android for those using F-droid, and therefore have 
> > potential users among those too.
> 
> Ah, yes. Many Android devices have an µUSB OTG port.
> 
> Hm. I wonder if we can build/design one with multiple plugs so that 
> one-fits-all.

Uhm, I withdraw my promise to buy one, until I understand if it is gonna 
be a frankenstein model: I would want something sensible to survive 
carrying in a pocket (and the pocket surviving that too).


 - Jonas

-- 
 * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist & Internet-arkitekt
 * Tlf.: +45 40843136  Website: http://dr.jones.dk/

 [x] quote me freely  [ ] ask before reusing  [ ] keep private
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[Tinkerphones] FOSDEM Hardware Enablement Devroom

[Paul Kocialkowski]

A Hardware Enablement devroom will be taking place at FOSDEM this year,
on Sunday 10 December 2017. This newly-created devroom is the result of
3 proposals that were merged together. It is co-organized by several
individuals.

The devroom covers all aspects related to hardware enablement and
support with free software, including aspects related to boot software,
firmwares, drivers and userspace tools and adaptation.

Proposals for talks related to these topics are welcome and can be
submitted until Sunday 26 November 2017 via the pentabarf interface.
Short talks are encouraged over longer ones in order to cover a wide
range of topics.

The announcement for the devroom, that contains all the useful
information, was published at:
https://lists.fosdem.org/pipermail/fosdem/2017-October/002649.html

Cheers and see you at FOSDEM!

-- 
Paul Kocialkowski, developer of free digital technology and hardware
support

Website: https://www.paulk.fr/
Coding blog: https://code.paulk.fr/
Git repositories: https://git.paulk.fr/ https://git.code.paulk.fr/

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Re: [Tinkerphones] New tinkerphone gadgets in Goldelico shop?

[Belisko Marek]

On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 11:42 AM, Belisko Marek  wrote:
> Hi,
>
> On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 8:33 AM, H. Nikolaus Schaller  
> wrote:
>> Hi all,
>>
>>> Am 04.11.2017 um 22:17 schrieb Niels :
>>>
>>> "H. Nikolaus Schaller"  writes:
>>>
 Hi Paul,

> Am 03.11.2017 um 13:06 schrieb Paul Boddie :
>
> On Friday 3. November 2017 10.54.44 H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote:
>>> Am 03.11.2017 um 10:32 schrieb Thomas Munker :
>>>
>>> i would like to see some small cryptographic hardware, like eg. yubikey.
>>> At best easy interfaceable to gta02/gta04 or with necessary interface
>>> hardware
>>
>> I have checked what they have:
>>
>> https://www.yubico.com/product/yubikey-4-series/
>> 
>>
>> It seems they offer USB-A and USB-C. So neither Mini nor Micro-USB. So it
>> needs a proper adapter.
>
> There is an article on LWN.net about these devices and others:
>
> https://lwn.net/Articles/736231/
>
> It covers the Yubikey NEO and Yubikey 4 plus the Nitrokey Pro and FST-01.

 Interesting reading!

 To me it looks as if it would best fit our community to simply build
 enough FST-01 units, so that they are not out of stock...

 Everything is said to be free and open, even if the device isn't the 
 fastest one:

 https://github.com/vinaebizs/fst-01
 https://raw.githubusercontent.com/SeeedDocument/FST-01/master/img/Fst-01-schematic.png

 So it looks not very difficult to have them produced and stocked by us at
 a reasonable price.
>>
>>>
>>> I agree.
>>>
>>> I have been wanting a FST-01 for a while, but not found any place to
>>> buy one.
>>
>> I have studied the schematics and it will take less than 1 day to prepare for
>> producing some clone...
>>
>> Cost is also reasonable, e.g. something below 30€ seems feasible for tiny
>> quantities (if produced in batches of 10). So it is possible to provide
>> permanent supply.
>>
>> What I understood is that it needs some flashing tool to be connected to
>> a jumper. Maybe someone can elaborate this.
>>
>> One thing is to be discussed about the USB interface:
>>
>> Should we keep the USB-A plug or try to replace it by an Mini-USB-A so that
>> it can be directly plugged into a GTA0x?
>>
>> Or even 3 variants with Standard-USB, MiniUSB and µUSB? Or does someone have
>> an idea if multiple sockets are feasible?
>>
>> USB-C makes no sense IMHO, because then a much faster processor with USB3 
>> speed
>> should be used... This would be a completely different project.
>>
>> So what can be the next steps?
>> * I await your comments and comments about being interested
>> * maybe someone should take care about the programming procedures
> I have experience with programming stm32 (there exists stm32uart
> utility which can burn SW) but in this case I'm unsure.
> Does stm32 boot from external spi flash or external spi flash is used
> for something else?
In meantime I found that it's possible via ST-link only:
http://wiki.seeed.cc/FST-01/
also here: 
http://www.gniibe.org/memo/development/fst-01/dongle/fst-01-swd-connection.html
so if we do new design maybe would be good to add for user possibility
to update FW.
>> * then I can open a shop entry for preordering
>> * I can prepare production data
>> * and order 2-3 samples and have them built
>> * those samples go to those doing the first preorders
>> * things would be tested/debugged
>> * after that it is possible to provide permanent service for the community 
>> until components become EOL
>>
>> BR,
>> Nikolaus
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>> http://www.tinkerphones.org
>
BR,

marek



-- 
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-
Marek Belisko - OPEN-NANDRA
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Re: [Tinkerphones] New tinkerphone gadgets in Goldelico shop?

[Belisko Marek]

Hi,

On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 8:33 AM, H. Nikolaus Schaller  
wrote:
> Hi all,
>
>> Am 04.11.2017 um 22:17 schrieb Niels :
>>
>> "H. Nikolaus Schaller"  writes:
>>
>>> Hi Paul,
>>>
 Am 03.11.2017 um 13:06 schrieb Paul Boddie :

 On Friday 3. November 2017 10.54.44 H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote:
>> Am 03.11.2017 um 10:32 schrieb Thomas Munker :
>>
>> i would like to see some small cryptographic hardware, like eg. yubikey.
>> At best easy interfaceable to gta02/gta04 or with necessary interface
>> hardware
>
> I have checked what they have:
>
> https://www.yubico.com/product/yubikey-4-series/
> 
>
> It seems they offer USB-A and USB-C. So neither Mini nor Micro-USB. So it
> needs a proper adapter.

 There is an article on LWN.net about these devices and others:

 https://lwn.net/Articles/736231/

 It covers the Yubikey NEO and Yubikey 4 plus the Nitrokey Pro and FST-01.
>>>
>>> Interesting reading!
>>>
>>> To me it looks as if it would best fit our community to simply build
>>> enough FST-01 units, so that they are not out of stock...
>>>
>>> Everything is said to be free and open, even if the device isn't the 
>>> fastest one:
>>>
>>> https://github.com/vinaebizs/fst-01
>>> https://raw.githubusercontent.com/SeeedDocument/FST-01/master/img/Fst-01-schematic.png
>>>
>>> So it looks not very difficult to have them produced and stocked by us at
>>> a reasonable price.
>
>>
>> I agree.
>>
>> I have been wanting a FST-01 for a while, but not found any place to
>> buy one.
>
> I have studied the schematics and it will take less than 1 day to prepare for
> producing some clone...
>
> Cost is also reasonable, e.g. something below 30€ seems feasible for tiny
> quantities (if produced in batches of 10). So it is possible to provide
> permanent supply.
>
> What I understood is that it needs some flashing tool to be connected to
> a jumper. Maybe someone can elaborate this.
>
> One thing is to be discussed about the USB interface:
>
> Should we keep the USB-A plug or try to replace it by an Mini-USB-A so that
> it can be directly plugged into a GTA0x?
>
> Or even 3 variants with Standard-USB, MiniUSB and µUSB? Or does someone have
> an idea if multiple sockets are feasible?
>
> USB-C makes no sense IMHO, because then a much faster processor with USB3 
> speed
> should be used... This would be a completely different project.
>
> So what can be the next steps?
> * I await your comments and comments about being interested
> * maybe someone should take care about the programming procedures
I have experience with programming stm32 (there exists stm32uart
utility which can burn SW) but in this case I'm unsure.
Does stm32 boot from external spi flash or external spi flash is used
for something else?
> * then I can open a shop entry for preordering
> * I can prepare production data
> * and order 2-3 samples and have them built
> * those samples go to those doing the first preorders
> * things would be tested/debugged
> * after that it is possible to provide permanent service for the community 
> until components become EOL
>
> BR,
> Nikolaus
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BR,

marek

-- 
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-
Marek Belisko - OPEN-NANDRA
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Re: [Tinkerphones] New tinkerphone gadgets in Goldelico shop?

[H. Nikolaus Schaller]

> Am 13.11.2017 um 11:31 schrieb Jonas Smedegaard :
> 
> Quoting H. Nikolaus Schaller (2017-11-13 08:33:45)
>> Am 04.11.2017 um 22:17 schrieb Niels :
>>> I have been wanting a FST-01 for a while, but not found any place to 
>>> buy one.
>> 
>> I have studied the schematics and it will take less than 1 day to 
>> prepare for producing some clone...
>> 
>> Cost is also reasonable, e.g. something below 30€ seems feasible for 
>> tiny quantities (if produced in batches of 10). So it is possible to 
>> provide permanent supply.
>> 
>> What I understood is that it needs some flashing tool to be connected 
>> to a jumper. Maybe someone can elaborate this.
>> 
>> One thing is to be discussed about the USB interface:
>> 
>> Should we keep the USB-A plug or try to replace it by an Mini-USB-A so 
>> that it can be directly plugged into a GTA0x?
>> 
>> Or even 3 variants with Standard-USB, MiniUSB and µUSB? Or does 
>> someone have an idea if multiple sockets are feasible?
> 
> I would buy a microUSB model if made - and I believe it could be made to 
> work with standard Android for those using F-droid, and therefore have 
> potential users among those too.

Ah, yes. Many Android devices have an µUSB OTG port.

Hm. I wonder if we can build/design one with multiple plugs so that 
one-fits-all.

BR,
Nikolaus

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Re: [Tinkerphones] New tinkerphone gadgets in Goldelico shop?

[H. Nikolaus Schaller]

Hi Xavi,

> Am 13.11.2017 um 10:58 schrieb Xavi Drudis Ferran :
> 
> El Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 09:41:44AM +0100, H. Nikolaus Schaller deia:
>> 
>> I would like it as well!
>> 
> 
> :) 
> 
>> And I have a simple idea how to build one. I still use one of the original
>> GTA04A1 prototype boards where just some components were soldered on,
>> incl. the battery connector. I use it to power a GTA04 from battery
>> without covering the OMAP processor. It is not a charger (there is
>> no charger chip installed), but used as a power bank...
>> 
>> It looks like this (the board on the left is the GTA04A1):
>> 
>> 
> 
> Good, possibly someone can design a ·D printed case or something, but it 
> would already be something. 

It works completely without case... In the spirit of tinkerers :)

But a printed case is welcome and easy: my idea is to use the same
shape as the GTA04 board so a spare Openmoko case would suffice.
And there had been 3D data around to print such cases.

> 
>> 
>> 
>> Now, the idea is to provide a PCB very similar to this, but have:
>> * the correct spring loaded battery connector
>> * some metal handles (cut a copper staple and solder to the board) to 
>> keep the battery in place
>> * an Mini-USB socket so that you can connect to a standard wall charger or a 
>> PC or hub
> 
> This is good, as long as it brings enough power (surely for charging one 
> battery
> it will, but for 2 or 3 ? )

800mA each. You just need a sufficiently powerful 5V supply for each battery.

> 
>> * it should even be possible to strap together with the GTA04 Qi-Charger:)
> 
> Good, I'm not interested in inductive charging, but why not ?
> 
>> * a LiIon charger chip that can run a charging cycle w/o any CPU support
> 
> And maybe take care of the charged battery if left there for longer
> than needed ?  Would it need to eventually recharge ? Maybe that's too
> complex and depends on user wishes so best left out ... ?

That is all inside the charger chip. It trickle charges if needed and turns
automatically off if battery is full. I am quite sure that Texas Instruments and
their customers have already thought of everything when designing these chips...
They are used in millions of digital cameras, gps devices, smartphones etc.
where user's don't care about the health of batteries.

> 
>> * some LED(s) to show the charging status
>> * is likely ~20€ per unit
>> 
>> I think you can then just take two or three of those and connect to some
>> (old) externally powered hub to charge several batteries in parallel.
>> 
> 
> That would be better than what I have now (nothing). But it would
> still require
> 
>   2 o 3 of these units
> 
>   1 power hub
>   1 hub power source 
>   3 or 4 cables 

If you already have it, it would be fine.

> 
>   some case
> 
> Doable at home, not so much to take to a hotel, I guess...

Ok, I see.

Maybe if you have a notebook with multiple USB sockets it would only
need to carry extra cables.

There are also USB power supply devices like this (I don't know if this
specific one is good): https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=13915

> 
> It's ok but if something could be done to eliminate components it would be 
> even more convenient. Remember those AAA rechargeable battery chargers ?
> They have several slots (at least 2) and you don't need many of them. Some
> plug directly to a wall socket and you don't even need a plug. This is 
> asking too much, but maybe some reduction in components is still possible.

Well, there aren't many to be reduced. You always need a battery connector
for each slot and a charger chip for each battery (batteries may be differently
filled and become full at different times).

And you need a PCB space at least as large as each battery.

So the only thing you can share is the connector to some wall outlet and
the wall charger.
 
> 
> Maybe an optional version with more battery places or maybe some male
> and female connector in opposite sides so you could daisy chain 2 or 3
> of those chargers side by side without needing cables and without a
> powered hub

That looks like an interesting idea!

> (but then it's no longer USB 2?).

Well, charging doesn't need to be 100% compliant. It can be seen as "just
another connector type" for a 5V 2A power supply.

Maybe it should be possible to limit charging current to 500mA each so
that you can chain up to 4 units with a 2A supply.

> 
>> 
>> Would this fit your needs? Would others be interested as well? Additional 
>> ideas?
>> 
> 
> It would, and I think I would get 2 or 3 of them if there isn't a more
> integrated option. But if possible I would pay more than this total
> price for a more integrated option.

Well, there is nothing to save in a more integrated version. Space
goes up linearily and number of components as well. The only wasted
space is that a GTA04 shaped board is a little bigger than it would
need to be.

So with the daisy-chaining idea (if it can be done) there is maximum
flexibility (i.e. you 

Re: [Tinkerphones] New tinkerphone gadgets in Goldelico shop?

[Jonas Smedegaard]

Quoting H. Nikolaus Schaller (2017-11-13 08:33:45)
> Am 04.11.2017 um 22:17 schrieb Niels :
>> I have been wanting a FST-01 for a while, but not found any place to 
>> buy one.
>
> I have studied the schematics and it will take less than 1 day to 
> prepare for producing some clone...
>
> Cost is also reasonable, e.g. something below 30€ seems feasible for 
> tiny quantities (if produced in batches of 10). So it is possible to 
> provide permanent supply.
>
> What I understood is that it needs some flashing tool to be connected 
> to a jumper. Maybe someone can elaborate this.
>
> One thing is to be discussed about the USB interface:
>
> Should we keep the USB-A plug or try to replace it by an Mini-USB-A so 
> that it can be directly plugged into a GTA0x?
>
> Or even 3 variants with Standard-USB, MiniUSB and µUSB? Or does 
> someone have an idea if multiple sockets are feasible?

I would buy a microUSB model if made - and I believe it could be made to 
work with standard Android for those using F-droid, and therefore have 
potential users among those too.


 - Jonas

-- 
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 * Tlf.: +45 40843136  Website: http://dr.jones.dk/

 [x] quote me freely  [ ] ask before reusing  [ ] keep private
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Re: [Tinkerphones] New tinkerphone gadgets in Goldelico shop?

[H . Nikolaus Schaller]

Hi Xavi,

> Am 11.11.2017 um 13:12 schrieb Xavi Drudis Ferran :
> 
> El Thu, Nov 02, 2017 at 06:17:11PM +0100, H. Nikolaus Schaller deia:
>> So I'd be interested in which products (or services) you as
>> a member of the tinkerphones community would like to see. So
> 
> A battery charger ?
> 
> Maybe it's just me, but I keep getting too little time out of my GTA04
> battery.  I carry a few battery spares and that's enough, but then I
> have to charge several of them, and I only have the GTA04 to do it. I
> charge the one in the phone, when it's full, swith it off, change
> battery, charge that one, and again. It takes a while for each and
> often I forget I have to change the batery and when I need them they
> are not charged.  I'd like to have a charger where I can put 2 or 3
> batteries and forget about them until later to just pick them up
> charged.
> 
> I guess it's low tech and boring, but it'd be useful and I'd like to
> buy it. I'm not sure if someone else would like it. 

I would like it as well!

And I have a simple idea how to build one. I still use one of the original
GTA04A1 prototype boards where just some components were soldered on,
incl. the battery connector. I use it to power a GTA04 from battery
without covering the OMAP processor. It is not a charger (there is
no charger chip installed), but used as a power bank...

It looks like this (the board on the left is the GTA04A1):




Now, the idea is to provide a PCB very similar to this, but have:
* the correct spring loaded battery connector
* some metal handles (cut a copper staple and solder to the board) to keep 
the battery in place
* an Mini-USB socket so that you can connect to a standard wall charger or a PC 
or hub
* it should even be possible to strap together with the GTA04 Qi-Charger:)
* a LiIon charger chip that can run a charging cycle w/o any CPU support
* some LED(s) to show the charging status
* is likely ~20€ per unit

I think you can then just take two or three of those and connect to some
(old) externally powered hub to charge several batteries in parallel.


Would this fit your needs? Would others be interested as well? Additional ideas?


Generally, this discussion has already turned out to be very fruitful!

We already have identified as not difficult to provide:
* Qi-charger kit for GTA04 (working prototype already presented a while ago: 
https://twitter.com/goldelico/status/815234456126689280 )
* FST-01 crypto-key clone (Big-USB or Mini-USB plug for GTA04)
* standalone GTA0x battery charger for HF08 batteries

More ideas are welcome! Make GTA0x great again :-P

BR,
Nikolaus


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