Re: [Community-Discuss] NomCom Chairs Private Message

[John Walu]

I am also struggling to understand the 'crime'.

I served on several past Nomination Committees and my first line of
advertising/recruitment was always *my own networks. *For the simple reason
that  I really didn't have access to *OTHER peoples networks.*

AfriNIC has in recent times struggled to raise multiple candidates per seat
and so NomComm Members and Chair should be encouraged to cast their search
as wide as possiblenaturally charity, would I presume to begin from
home.

So evidence or no evidence, NOMCOM please keep advertising and searching
without fear or favor.

walu

On Sun, Mar 15, 2020 at 3:51 PM Andrew Alston <
andrew.als...@liquidtelecom.com> wrote:

> Quite frankly without the alleged communication  and evidence - I consider
> this entire thread spurious and a waste of time - and it should probably
> head straight to dev/null where I will now place it - especially
> considering it’s source - Hi Benjamin.
>
> Andrew
>
> Get Outlook for iOS 
> --
> *From:* Marcus K. G. Adomey 
> *Sent:* Friday, March 13, 2020 10:48:18 PM
> *To:* Sunday Folayan 
> *Cc:* community-discuss@afrinic.net 
> *Subject:* Re: [Community-Discuss] NomCom Chairs Private Message
>
> Hi Sunday,
>
> Actually, Badru did see something wrong in the action posed by the NomCom
> chair ... Badru mentioned an oversight
>
> My 1st mail on this issue clearly raised few questions which only the
> author of the action can respond to. I did not share the solicitation mail
> as the derived questions and comments seem enough to explain its content
> and the recriminations. The intent is not to make a tremendous issue ...
> but seek commitment of NomCom to remain neutral, fair and transparent.
>
> As you want the evidences, I would expect the NomCom chair to play full
> transparency and share the message and respond to the questions to clear
> the air.
>
> The incident might be closed thereafter
>
> Hope this helps
>
>
> Marcus
>
> --
> *From:* Sunday Folayan 
> *Sent:* Thursday, March 12, 2020 2:00 PM
> *To:* Marcus K. G. Adomey 
> *Cc:* Badru Ntege ;
> community-discuss@afrinic.net 
> *Subject:* Re: [Community-Discuss] NomCom Chairs Private Message
>
> Hi Marcus,
>
> I agree with Badru. I was not sure your Email was inviting any comment or
> response from the NOMCOM Chair, as the said solicitation email was not
> shared. In my little corner, I was remembering that the Southern Africa and
> Western Africa regions cannot contest in the current Board Elections. This
> is certainly the reason why NOMCOM is made of people from Southern Africa
> and Western Africa, who cannot run for Board positions.
>
> Of course, I understand the Independent Board seats are not filled via any
> regional affiliation, but if you want to push some issue of conflict of
> interests, you may send the evidences to the Board and I expect working
> with the Governance Committee, they can take a good look at it to ensure
> fairness, openness and transparency.
>
> Pushing it further here, will only ginger some mob action, which is not in
> the overall interest of the organization.
>
> Just my personal thoughts.
>
> Have a nice day.
>
> Sunday.
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 12, 2020 at 2:22 PM Marcus K. G. Adomey 
> wrote:
>
> Dear Badru,
>
> I have your email and thank you. BUT this constant attempts to undermine
> serious issues, by not giving them the required attention, is not helpful
> and not healthy.
>
> How do you propose healing wounds without admission of wrongdoing?
>
> How can we build trust when senior people like the current NomCom behave
> like that?
>
> When people are turning things personal, country and local community
>  based, instead of thinking regional as per Afrinic mandate.
> It has been almost 3 days that the questions were asked and the NomCom
> chair did not even bother addressing  the concerns raised.
>
> How would people trust the NomCom and the upcoming elections?
>
>
>
> Marcus
> --
> *From:* Badru Ntege 
> *Sent:* Thursday, March 12, 2020 4:31:54 AM
> *To:* Marcus K. G. Adomey ;
> community-discuss@afrinic.net 
> *Subject:* RE: NomCom Chairs Private Message
>
>
>
> We should take this as  an oversight.  And NomCom Chair will take note.
>
> Its time for us all to find that space that builds trust through the
> community.
>
> Lets heal the wounds through our actions and words.
>
> Have a wonderful day all.
>
> regards
>
> BN
>
> --
> *From:* Marcus K. G. Adomey [mado...@hotmail.com]
> *Sent:* 09 March 2020 18:50
> *To:* community-discuss@afrinic.net
> *Subject:* [Community-Discuss] NomCom Chairs Private Message
>
> Dear Community,
>
> Our goodwill advocates have sighted an email message from the recently
> appointed and current NomCom chair to his favorite private mailing list in
> South Africa soliciting applications from the country in question.
>
>
> As a community, we have a few questions to ensure fairness 

Re: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Borad Elections

[John Walu]

@ Owen

GDPR territorial scope extends beyond Europe since its is EU citizen
specific rather than geo-specific.

https://gdpr-info.eu/art-3-gdpr/

In other words, anyone (Data controller/processor) handling EU citizen data
is automatically subject to the GDPR in the event of a data breach -
irrespective of their geo-locality.

 Ofcourse the main issue will be if the affected EU citizen will actually
file a complaint in the EU Courts or not.  The second issue is whether the
EU courts will find the data controller guilty and if the fined/penalized
entity will to pay up or ignore given their remoteness to EU centers of
power. (nb:Facebook and Google have so far been paying up ;-)

Is AfriNIC bound by GDPR?

The simple answer is -  it depends.
Do Afrinic processes and systems at any one point collect, store or process
data that contains EU citizens?

If the answer is NO. Then they are not bound by GDPR.
If the answer is YES. Then they are potentially bound by GDPR to the extent
that if that data is abused/breached, then they potentially face
sanctions/penalties from EU courts.

Either way, Mauritius has one of the most comprehensive Data Protection
legislation on the continent

and any data breach can actually be litigated locally (without the need for
GDPR) with penalties to AfriNIC (if for example it is determined that email
targets/addresses were harvested from Afrinic digital resources without
consent from the data subjects).

walu.

On Wed, Jul 10, 2019 at 8:04 AM Owen DeLong  wrote:

>
>
> > On Jul 5, 2019, at 14:13 , JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss <
> community-discuss@afrinic.net> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Alan,
> >
> > If the board can't investigate that, we may have a problem, because
> Afrinic has to comply with GDPR.
>
> Why? AfriNIC is not located in the EU and does not solicit business with
> EU persons.
>
> AfriNIC is not, by my reading, subject to the GDPR.
>
> Even if they were, AfriNIC did not violate GDPR here. Wafa might have, but
> I don’t think she is subject to GDPR, either. Last I looked, Tunisia was
> outside EU jurisdiction.
>
>
> > I don't know if those emails come from whois or something else, but some
> logs may tell.
>
> Why is this relevant?
>
> > I my opinion it will be nicer to get a response from Wafa, and I'm sure
> the community will be happy to forgive her. My intent is not to punish
> anyone, just to make sure that we find solutions to possible problems and
> mistakes and avoid repeating them.
>
> I have no issue with the use of the email addresses. I think the far more
> important issue here is the message sent under color of authority which
> authority likely was not authorized to Wafa at the time.
>
> Owen
>
> >
> > Regards,
> > Jordi
> > @jordipalet
> >
> >
> >
> > El 5/7/19 10:16, "Alan Barrett"  escribió:
> >
> >
> >
> >> On 3 Jul 2019, at 15:50, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss <
> community-discuss@afrinic.net> wrote:
> >>
> >> I’m angrier about this as much as I think on it again.
> >>
> >> Can the board and the staff investigate this?
> >>
> >> Can all the people that got those emails confirm if they have provided
> voluntarily their emails or if they have participated in Afrinic lists, or
> if those emails are part of their Afrinic contacts, in order to understand
> if this personal data (emails are personal data), have been collected from
> Afrinic internal databases.
> >
> >There is no reasonable way for AFRINIC staff to investigate whether
> the recipients had agreed to receive the messages sent by Wafa Dahmani.
> There is also no reasonable way for staff to investigate whether email
> addresses were collected from the public WHOIS database.  There is no
> non-public AFRINIC database that could have been used.
> >
> >Regards,
> >Alan Barrett
> >
> >
> >___
> >Community-Discuss mailing list
> >Community-Discuss@afrinic.net
> >https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > **
> > IPv4 is over
> > Are you ready for the new Internet ?
> > http://www.theipv6company.com
> > The IPv6 Company
> >
> > This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or
> confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of
> the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized
> disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this
> information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly
> prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the
> intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or
> use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including
> attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal
> offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform about this
> communication and 

Re: [Community-Discuss] FW: Everyone... meet Benjamin

[John Walu]

True @ Badru

I have to agree with you.

Proclaiming an AfriNIC shutdown and jumping RIPE as the better option
simply reinforces 'Benjamin Ledoh' conspiracy theories.

Very bad optics and doesn't look good.  It should be resisted by the many
who still believe there is some hope and a future for AfriNIC.

walu.

On Wed, Jun 19, 2019 at 4:14 PM Badru Ntege 
wrote:

> Alan Levin wrote  “I really hope AfriNIC is shut down at this point”
>
>
>
> I find it hard to balance a statement like that.
>
>
>
>
>
> The organization will survive as much as many wish it not to.
>
>
>
> However I would like to ask the Board to invoke its right to expel members
> who are working against the interest of the organization and the message
> above by Alan Levin is very clear.
>
>
>
> I have heard the word “Cabal” in the corridors and only now has penny
> dropped.  I can now put into context the emails I have been reading from
> you sir and all related parties.
>
>
>
>
>
> Regards
>
>
>
> BN
>
>
>
>
>
> *From: *Alan Levin 
> *Date: *Wednesday, June 19, 2019 at 3:50 PM
> *To: *Andrew Alston 
> *Cc: *General Discussions of AFRINIC 
> *Subject: *Re: [Community-Discuss] FW: Everyone... meet Benjamin
>
>
>
> I really hope AfriNIC is shut down at this point
> ___
> Community-Discuss mailing list
> Community-Discuss@afrinic.net
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>
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Re: [Community-Discuss] [rpd] Intelligence for AIS-19 Kampala No 1

[John Walu]

Can someone confirm if this Benjamin Lendoh is an ACTUAL human being or
some broken AI?

A quick Google doesn't report much about the fellow - which is kinda wierd
for someone *presumed* to be authoritative in the internet space.

We could be dealing with an automated chatbox here and it maybe useful to
confirm before wasting too much bandwidth on it.

walu

On Wed, Jun 19, 2019 at 8:17 AM Daniel Yakmut via Community-Discuss <
community-discuss@afrinic.net> wrote:

> I discover you have a personal hatred for me and Nigerians. Else I cannot
> see how you wake up in the middle of no where and start blabbing nonsense.
> Like someone who fell from the top of an iroko tree.
>
> I don't know you, or else I would have thought, I collect your wife from
> you, that is why you are spewing shit around.
>
> I am not in Kampala, but your "intelligence"  told you of what I did and I
> am doing. What a delusion.
>
> You can continue to spread your hatred, but I can assure you it doesn't
> bother me, because you belong to a mental home.
>
> By the way you threaten to physically attack me, sometime ago. Possibly
> Kampala is your chance, bacause it is high time you are cured of your
> mental illness.
>
> Simply
> Daniel
>
> On Wed, Jun 19, 2019, 4:01 AM Benjamin Ledoh 
> wrote:
>
>> Daniel,
>>
>> I am exposing you so that AFRINIC community knows that not all Nigerians
>> are corrupt. There still good one they can trust.
>>
>>
>> Benjiloh
>>
>> On Wed, Jun 19, 2019 at 12:12 AM Daniel Yakmut 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Bejiloh,
>>> Welcome back from your polluted holiday of casting aspersions on people.
>>> I hope you have now secured a job with the police. I can see how good you
>>> are at gathering "intelligence".
>>>
>>> I am also happy you arrived Kampala yesterday and within a few hours you
>>> were able to spew the shit you just did. And please let us know you, when
>>> you come to the mic.
>>>
>>> I am happy that you have decided to earn yourself an army of enemies. I
>>> will watch and see how wriggle yourself out of this.
>>>
>>> It is unfortunate I am not in Kampala and my ghost is chasing you.
>>> People like you belong to the dungeons.
>>>
>>> I am sure the community can see that you are a rotten egg and you should
>>> be thrown out.
>>>
>>> Simply,
>>> Daniel
>>>
>>> On Tue, Jun 18, 2019, 10:46 PM Benjamin Ledoh 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Dear Community,

 I have arrived in Kampala this yesterday and the intelligence I have
 gathered since then is so alarming that I have decided to send this email
 to call on my fellow Nigerians (not all) and brother Ugandans  (not
 all) conscience to put Africa first. To put the interest of this community
 first so that we keep our Internet Resources for the development of Africa
 and for the future generation.

 From the intelligence I have gathered, two groups are working
 tirelessly to hijack AFRINIC resources. The obvious consequences are the
 close down of AFRINIC and the appropriation of the Internet Resources of
 our region. If these happen, it implies that whenever an organization in
 Africa needs IPv4, IPv6 or ASN, it has to get it in the black markets where
 those resources would be very expensive perhaps not affordable too or to go
 to RIPE or ARIN. The two groups are, on one side, white South African led
 by Mr. Andrew Alston of Liquid Telecom with their allies Mark Elkins and
 Owen Delong, and on the other side, Lu with his Foundation from China.

 WHAT ARE ISSUES AT HAND?

 The British/South Africa Mark Elkins, the candidate of election, wants
 to become the co-chair of PDWG. His mission as co-chair is to push for the
 policy “IPv4 Inter-RIR Resource Transfers (Comprehensive Scope)” proposed
 by Spanish or Latino Jordi Palet Martinez. The issue with this policy is
 clear. There is no more IPv4 in the other registry, only AFRINIC has IPv4
 in its pool. The policy of Jordy has the hidden agenda is to enable the
 South African (not all of them) mafia to ransack the AFRINIC. It is not a
 secret that Mark Elkins was one of those who oppose the creation of
 AFRINIC. No wonder why his acolyte Owen Delong always defends him even if
 his is blatantly wrong. What is interesting yesterday was Owen with the
 help of some Ugandans he recruited some boys and girls to come and vote for
 Mark Elkins and to support of oppose policies. They were brought by Owen
 himself who was instructing the AFRINIC registration desk in Sheraton Hotel
 to register them. When they were asked about what they are coming to do,
 they said they are coming to vote for IPv4. I personally witnessed this.

 For my own brothers Nigerians, three of them were sponsored by Lu Heng
 and his foundation for the post of the co-chair of PDWG. Moreover, the
 Chinese Lu Heng and his foundation have brought 30 participants or so
 through the coordination of Daniel Yakmut. 

Re: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Interim CEO

[John Walu]

I stand corrected and reminded.

>From a governance perspective. Its better for the board to keep the two
roles (CEO/ CFO/Finance Director) separate - both functionally and
Individually (physical human being ;-)

walu.

On Mon, Jun 17, 2019 at 10:21 PM Owen DeLong  wrote:

> Walu,
>
> That would be a very bad idea since the CFO is a key part of the check and
> balance system to keep the CEO honest.
>
> I’m not staying or implying anything about anyone, but structurally and
> optically, the CEO should never also perform the role of CFO.
>
> Owen
>
>
> On Jun 17, 2019, at 16:34, John Walu  wrote:
>
> @Sander
>
> Maybe Patrisse Deesse can multi-task?
>
> As in be the Interim CEO while still overseeing Finance? Eventually, when
> the substantive CEO is recruited, Patrisse can go back 100% to his regular
> role.  Unless he ofcourse becomes confirmed as CEO, in which case then his
> former role can be formally advertised and filled.
>
> I think this is the standard practice for interim positions...unless I am
> missing something.
>
> walu
>
> On Mon, Jun 17, 2019 at 3:52 PM Sander Steffann 
> wrote:
>
>> Hello all,
>>
>> > Op 16 jun. 2019, om 21:37 heeft Sander Steffann 
>> het volgende geschreven:
>> >
>> >> As Community are aware, Mr Alan Peter Barrett, the Chief Executive
>> Officer of AFRINIC, submitted his resignation on 27 April 2019 with effect
>> from 26 July  2019.
>> >>
>> >> At its meeting of 14 June 2019, the Board appointed Mr Patrisse
>> Deesse, the Finance Director, as Interim Chief Executive Officer with
>> effect from 27 July 2019 until a new Chief Executive Officer assumes
>> AFRINIC duties. Mr Deesse and Mr Barret will work together between 1 July
>> 2019 and 26 July 2019 and finalise the handing over process.
>> >
>> > Out of curiosity, who will take over the CFO role from Mr Deesse?
>>
>> Replying to myself to make sure that all relevant information is shared
>> fairly within this community: one of the board members has informed me
>> off-list that nobody will take over the CFO role, and there will therefore
>> not be a CFO while Mr Deesse takes the role of interim CEO.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Sander
>>
>> ___
>> Community-Discuss mailing list
>> Community-Discuss@afrinic.net
>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>>
> ___
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>
>
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Re: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Interim CEO

[John Walu]

Ok.   I knew I was missing something...or something was brewing ;-)

So Andrew, since you are so good at the defining problems, why not give us
some suggested solutions ;-)

walu

On Mon, Jun 17, 2019 at 4:30 PM Andrew Alston <
andrew.als...@liquidtelecom.com> wrote:

> How does that gel with clause 17.3 of the bylaws that state that the CEO’s
> position must be held by a non-Mauritian and with the resolution that was
> passed in November of 2015 which explicitly demand that a CFO be in
> existence because it requires the signature of a CFO to access certain bank
> accounts?
>
>
>
> I’ve also seen some arguments about the  acting part of this –
> unfortunately the bylaws do not state anything about permanence – in the
> case of 17.3 it states that nationals of the country hosting the
> headquarters shall be ineligible for the appointment to the office of Chief
> Executive Officer.  That does not limit this to a permanent appointment,
> and therefore includes a temporary appointment to the position.
>
>
>
> The same goes for clause 15.6 of the bylaws – which is the one they get
> around by not having a CFO – but that does not release the obligations in
> 17.3
>
>
>
> Thanks
>
>
>
> Andrew
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Sander Steffann 
> *Sent:* Monday, 17 June 2019 15:52
> *To:* General Discussions of AFRINIC 
> *Subject:* Re: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Interim CEO
>
>
>
> Hello all,
>
> > Op 16 jun. 2019, om 21:37 heeft Sander Steffann 
> het volgende geschreven:
> >
> >> As Community are aware, Mr Alan Peter Barrett, the Chief Executive
> Officer of AFRINIC, submitted his resignation on 27 April 2019 with effect
> from 26 July 2019.
> >>
> >> At its meeting of 14 June 2019, the Board appointed Mr Patrisse Deesse,
> the Finance Director, as Interim Chief Executive Officer with effect from
> 27 July 2019 until a new Chief Executive Officer assumes AFRINIC duties. Mr
> Deesse and Mr Barret will work together between 1 July 2019 and 26 July
> 2019 and finalise the handing over process.
> >
> > Out of curiosity, who will take over the CFO role from Mr Deesse?
>
> Replying to myself to make sure that all relevant information is shared
> fairly within this community: one of the board members has informed me
> off-list that nobody will take over the CFO role, and there will therefore
> not be a CFO while Mr Deesse takes the role of interim CEO.
>
> Cheers,
> Sander
> ___
> Community-Discuss mailing list
> Community-Discuss@afrinic.net
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>
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Re: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Interim CEO

[John Walu]

@Sander

Maybe Patrisse Deesse can multi-task?

As in be the Interim CEO while still overseeing Finance? Eventually, when
the substantive CEO is recruited, Patrisse can go back 100% to his regular
role.  Unless he ofcourse becomes confirmed as CEO, in which case then his
former role can be formally advertised and filled.

I think this is the standard practice for interim positions...unless I am
missing something.

walu

On Mon, Jun 17, 2019 at 3:52 PM Sander Steffann  wrote:

> Hello all,
>
> > Op 16 jun. 2019, om 21:37 heeft Sander Steffann 
> het volgende geschreven:
> >
> >> As Community are aware, Mr Alan Peter Barrett, the Chief Executive
> Officer of AFRINIC, submitted his resignation on 27 April 2019 with effect
> from 26 July  2019.
> >>
> >> At its meeting of 14 June 2019, the Board appointed Mr Patrisse Deesse,
> the Finance Director, as Interim Chief Executive Officer with effect from
> 27 July 2019 until a new Chief Executive Officer assumes AFRINIC duties. Mr
> Deesse and Mr Barret will work together between 1 July 2019 and 26 July
> 2019 and finalise the handing over process.
> >
> > Out of curiosity, who will take over the CFO role from Mr Deesse?
>
> Replying to myself to make sure that all relevant information is shared
> fairly within this community: one of the board members has informed me
> off-list that nobody will take over the CFO role, and there will therefore
> not be a CFO while Mr Deesse takes the role of interim CEO.
>
> Cheers,
> Sander
>
> ___
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>
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Re: [Community-Discuss] Reform Nomcomm - was Announcement for Final Candidate Slate for Open Seat on AFRINIC Governance Committee

[John Walu]

On Sat, Jun 15, 2019 at 1:31 PM Owen DeLong  wrote:
>>>
In general, I agree with you. I will, however, note that it is possible
that there are situations where “why” should be redacted to protect the
confidentiality and dignity of the applicant who was rejected. For example,
if the nominating committee had rejected a  candidate because he is under
indictment and under disciplinary review in his day job for misconduct, I
don’t think that nomcom should be the ones to publicly disclose those
details.
>>>
@Owen

Its true, we must protect the applicant's privacy.  However, we must also
enhance the Nomcom's transparency.  Imagine a situation where Nomcomm
disqualifies candidates because they allegedly did not respond to some
email. It is quite difficult really to really prove beyond reasonable it at
all such an email was ever sent.  It is even harder to prove that it was
successfully delivered to the intended recipient.

In such a case, Nomcom should publicly say Candidate X was disqualified
because they did not respond to an email. (that in itself will discourage
and expose a Nomcom that  is heavily biased towards knocking out, rather
than recruiting board members;-)

Perhaps a middle ground that would protect the candidate's privacy while
enhancing Nomcom Transparency and accountability would be to seek consent
or objection from Candidates - at the point of application - if they would
object to the reasons behind their rejection being publicly reported.

That way we avoid giving a blank cheque to Nomcom who may make decisions
knowing very well that they need NOT explain themselves to anyone (lack of
accountability).

So lets design and give Nomcomm a  Standard Reporting Template to enhance
their transparency.  They will remain independent and autonomous in the
functionality, but they should owe the community an understanding on how
they worked hard to raise good candidates for AfriNIC.

The report from Nomcomm with respect to the PDWG election is a good start
and can be refined and adapted for future Nomcomms.

walu.





On Sat, Jun 15, 2019 at 1:31 PM Owen DeLong  wrote:

>
>
> > On Jun 4, 2019, at 11:34 PM, John Walu  wrote:
> >
> > I believe the deeper question is WHY is there an increasingly smaller
> candidate slate of those volunteering to serve on Afrinic board, year in
> year out.
> >
> > Two possible answers:
> > A) Good candidates are avoiding the perceived 'challenging' board
> /management /community relationships that continue to persist. So nomcom
> hands are tied and cannot manufacture candidates.
> >
> > OR
> > B) There are actually many good candidates applying  BUT the Nomcom
> 'Black-box' processes is kicking them out and reducing them to 1 or 2
> nominees.
> >
> > To drill down to the correct answer, I think the Nomcom process needs to
> be reformed.
> >
> > I still do not understand the benefit of having a black box process in
> the nomination committee where the community has no clue about how many
> candidates applied, how many got knocked out and why. IF national
> Presidential election systems are so open about this, why is that it has to
> remain hidden for Afrinic?
> >
> > And I say this as someone who has once served on Nomcomm as well as
> someone who has once been rejected by some previous Nomcomm (I want to
> believe it is within my right to share personal information/experience as
> this is not covered under NDA, but I stand to be corrected ;-)
> >
> > At a minimum, we should request that as Nomcom publishes the candidate
> slate, they should also show a tally (without the names) of how many
> candidates applied, how many got kicked out, why they were kicked out and
> how many successfully went thro.
>
> In general, I agree with you. I will, however, note that it is possible
> that there are situations where “why” should be redacted to protect the
> confidentiality and dignity of the applicant who was rejected. For example,
> if the nominating committee had rejected a  candidate because he is under
> indictment and under disciplinary review in his day job for misconduct, I
> don’t think that nomcom should be the ones to publicly disclose those
> details.
>
> > I believe this information can shed some light on the deeper question
> above of whether indeed we have fewer applicants or our black-box nommcom
> process is simply kicking them out in order to eventually present a single
> candidate.
>
> My suspicion is that to some degree, both are occurring.
>
> Owen
>
>
>
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Re: [Community-Discuss] Information about the nominations for the Board elections

[John Walu]

Thnx for the info. Quite insightful.

rgds.
walu.

On Wed, 5 Jun 2019, 21:22 Iyedi Goma,  wrote:

>
>
> Dear community,
>
> Veuillez trouvez la version française ci dessous.
>
> On behalf of the nomination committee, I would like to provide some
> information about the  nominations for the Board Elections.
>
> The nomination committee processed 11 nominations as follows:
>
> Northern Africa 3
>
> Western  Africa 2
>
> Southern Africa 1
>
> Eastern Africa 2
>
> Non-Regional 3
>
>
> The nomination committee requested Afrinic to verify whether the
> information which was submitted complies with the Bylaws Article 12.14(i).
> Afrinic confirmed that some of nominators and seconder were not in “good
> standing”. The nomination committee contacted the nominees to inform them
> about the matter and advised to provide nominators and seconders who are in
> “good standing”.
>
> The nomination committee proceeded  with the checking of criteria in
> accordance with the Bylaws Article 13.10.
>
> The nomination committee extended the call for nominations. to attract
> more nominations.
>
> The nomination committee held a webinar to explain the nomination process
> and to get feedback from the community.
>
> After reviewing the nominations, the nomination committee found that there
> were two nominations which did not comply with the Bylaws Article 12.14(i).
> In addition, one of the nominees notified the nomination committee about a
> withdrawal.
>
> We hope that the above clarifies the process which was followed.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Cher membre de la communauté
>
> Au nom du comité de nomination nous souhaitons apporter quelques
> informations supplémentaire sur le processus suivi par le comité de
> nomination, pour les candidatures des élections des Directeurs d’Afrinic
>
> Nous avons reçu au total 11 postulants suivant la répartition qui suit:
>
> Afrique du Nord 3
>
> Afrique du Ouest 2
>
> Afrique du Sud 1
>
> Afrique de l’Est 2
>
> Région Indépendant 3
>
> Le comité de nomination a demandé à AFRINIC de procéder à  la vérification
> des informations fournies selon le règlement intérieur dans son article
> 12.14 (i). Nous avons reçu la confirmation d Afrinic que le statut de
> certain membres qui avaient proposés et secondés  certain candidats
> n'étaient pas en règle. Le comité de nomination a contacté les postulants
> concernés pour les tenir informés et a donné les orientations sur la
> question.
>
> Le comité de nomination à procéder au contrôle et à la vérification des
> critères selon le règlement intérieur dans son article 13.10.
>
> Le comité de nomination avait demandé une rallonge des dates des fin de
> candidature afin d'avoir  plus de postulants et donner la marge aux
> postulants pour compléter leurs dossiers. En sus de cela le comité de
> nomination à organiser une réunion de sensibilisation, en ligne, sur les
> questions de candidature aux élections d AFRINIC et surtout pour recueillir
> les difficultés auxquelles la communauté est confrontée.
>
> Après la phase de revue des dossiers de candidatures nous avons constaté
> qu’il y avait deux dossiers non conforme  au règlement intérieur selon
> l’article 12.14 (i). En plus, un postulant nous avait notifié sur le
> retrait de sa candidature et ce qui fut fait.
>
> Nous osons espérer que cette communication  apporterait des éléments de
> réponse sur le processus qui à été suivi.
>
>
>
> Serge-parfait Goma
>
> Afrinic 2019 nomcom Chair
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Re: [Community-Discuss] Reform Nomcomm - was Announcement for Final Candidate Slate for Open Seat on AFRINIC Governance Committee

[John Walu]

Frank Habicht  wrote:
>>>The NomCom report shared with the invitation includes _some_ info.

..cant parse. Where is this report? What does it mean shared 'with the
invitation'?

Either way 11 applicants for 5 continent-wide seats may mean we are not
making Afrinic board seats attractive.  It would be nice to compare
experiences in terms of applicant numbers in other RIRs or ICANN in
general.  If the numbers are the same, then we conclude it is the nature of
the business ;-)

walu

On Wed, Jun 5, 2019 at 5:55 PM Frank Habicht  wrote:

> Hi Walu and all,
>
> The NomCom report shared with the invitation includes _some_ info.
> - It received 11 nominations.
> - one was withdrawn
> - 8 are remaining
>
> that means to me that 2 were "filtered".
>
> I requested them to disclose how many nominations *for each seat* were
> received.
> When this gets answered we will see for which seats there was filtering.
>
> I agree we shouldn't have this black box.
> I agree NomCom should explain why nominees were "kicked out".
> I believe the members voting should be provided with the information
> that is now used to reject nominees and then be allowed to make their
> own choice.
>
> Regards,
> Frank
>
>
> On 05/06/2019 09:34, John Walu wrote:
> > I believe the deeper question is WHY is there an increasingly smaller
> > candidate slate of those volunteering to serve on Afrinic board, year in
> > year out.
> >
> > Two possible answers:
> > A) Good candidates are avoiding the perceived 'challenging' board
> > /management /community relationships that continue to persist. So nomcom
> > hands are tied and cannot manufacture candidates.
> >
> > OR
> > B) There are actually many good candidates applying  BUT the Nomcom
> > 'Black-box' processes is kicking them out and reducing them to 1 or 2
> > nominees.
> >
> > To drill down to the correct answer, I think the Nomcom process needs to
> > be reformed.
> >
> > I still do not understand the benefit of having a black box process in
> > the nomination committee where the community has no clue about how many
> > candidates applied, how many got knocked out and why. IF national
> > Presidential election systems are so open about this, why is that it has
> > to remain hidden for Afrinic?
> >
> > And I say this as someone who has once served on Nomcomm as well as
> > someone who has once been rejected by some previous Nomcomm (I want to
> > believe it is within my right to share personal information/experience
> > as this is not covered under NDA, but I stand to be corrected ;-)
> >
> > At a minimum, we should request that as Nomcom publishes the candidate
> > slate, they should also show a tally (without the names) of how many
> > candidates applied, how many got kicked out, why they were kicked out
> > and how many successfully went thro.
> >
> > I believe this information can shed some light on the deeper question
> > above of whether indeed we have fewer applicants or our black-box
> > nommcom process is simply kicking them out in order to eventually
> > present a single candidate.
> >
> > walu.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Jun 4, 2019 at 3:47 PM Noah  > <mailto:n...@neo.co.tz>> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > On Tue, 4 Jun 2019, 15:15 Sander Steffann,  > <mailto:san...@steffann.nl>> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Noah,
> >
> > > Read the bylaws especially section 13.8
> >
> > When there is no candidate then the current director will be
> > re-appointed.
> >
> >
> > You missed the word "eligible" candidate!
> >
> > Nomcom has since slated eligible candidate and candidates with
> > different slates having one or more candidate and candidates
> nominated.
> >
> > Appointed != Elected.
> >
> >
> > There are upcoming elections scheduled where we members will be
> > casting votes for various candidates.
> >
> >
> >
> > >> No election -> no Directors
> > >
> > > Board can appoint.
> >
> > True. My statement was exaggerated. My apologies.
> >
> > An appointed board does not have a mandate from the members
> > though, and for a bottom-up community ending up with more
> > appointed than elected board members would not be good.
> >
> >
> > We have elections coming up soon and we intend to elect otherwise
> > the 

Re: [Community-Discuss] Gratitude

[John Walu]

@Andrew

I thot AfriNIC has a well-established mechanism for supporting or not
supporting the current chair. I am sure you recall this used to happen
every year after new members join the board and a vote is called to either
extend or rotate the chairman position.

Am not sure if there has been a change this process and now the voting of
the Chair by board members happens on email ;-)

That said,

I had not bothered to read the board minutes under discussion but after
reading them, I am a bit surprised that 4years later, AfriNIC board is
still obsessed with 'information control' strategies when they should be
concerned with 'information sharing' strategies.

Strictly speaking, Afrinic, as a community network has really nothing worth
hiding (other than as per Data Protection Act/Regulations). Furthermore
trying to hide or suppress what is already a public document, does not send
a good signal to the community.

Dr. Bope, our Chairman, I am sure you can actually move beyond this and
focus the board in more progressive endeavors.

best regards and all the best.

walu.



On Fri, May 31, 2019 at 10:22 AM Andrew Alston <
andrew.als...@liquidtelecom.com> wrote:

> Can we  conclude from the total lack of response to this email that in
> fact – there is no one willing to step up and say they support the current
> chair?  Either member or board member?
>
>
>
> Andrew
>
>
>
> *From:* Frank Habicht 
> *Sent:* Tuesday, 28 May 2019 16:36
> *To:* community-discuss@afrinic.net
> *Subject:* Re: [Community-Discuss] Gratitude
>
>
>
> Hi,
>
> reading
> https://www.afrinic.net/ast/pdf/2018-minutes/20181231-minutes.pdf
>
> especially:
>
> SO stated that he had requested via email for the Board to announce the
> status of the AGMM quorum court case. He stated that the Chair had
> refused to do so, and the Chair had alleged that SO was looking for
> votes. SO had requested the Chair to withdraw the statement. The Chair
> stated that the Board had discussed the matter, and would communicate to
> the community at an appropriate time; based on that the Chair did not
> see a need to withdraw. SO again requested the Chair to withdraw the
> allegation that SO was looking for votes, and the Chair again refused to
> withdraw.
> 
>
> I conclude that the Chair actively tried to suppress information/updates
> from AfriNIC membership. He apparently had no good reason and was using
> the allegation of another board member "looking for votes" as only
> argument.
>
> Which member of AfriNIC wants to have such a chair at the AfriNIC board?
> Please identify yourselves positively.
>
> PS: I would also wish to know which other board members supported this
> decision by the chair.
>
> Thanks,
> Frank
>
>
>
> On 28/05/2019 16:18, Mark Elkins wrote:
> > Thinking about the CEO, reading the minutes (
> > https://www.afrinic.net/ast/pdf/2019-minutes/20190305-minutes.pdf ) - I
> > think the best way out for the AfriNIC community is if the whole board
> > resigns - just leave the CEO. Andrew has got it right.
> >
> > On 2019/05/28 14:36, Andrew Alston wrote:
> >>
> >> Benjamin,
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Let’s see – you have a public document – a document that is clearly
> >> and totally in the public domain.  You have an individual who was a
> >> named party in that document – who chose to share that document.  You
> >> have an active attempt by the board to sanction that individual for
> >> engaging with the community who he is meant to serve.  You have a
> >> statement by the chair of the board that the CEO does not serve the
> >> community but instead serves the board.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Effectively – you have a board attempting to censor the CEO from
> >> engaging with this community – in a bottom up organization that by
> >> legal representation during the IANA transition committed to the
> >> concepts of self determination of members and transparency and bottom
> >> up approach.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> 1. That constitutes micro-management
> >> 2. In constitutes a total and utter failure of the board to adhere to
> >> the principles sworn to in the foundation of the organization in
> >> the original ICP2
> >> 3. It shows a total disregard for the obligations set out in section
> >> 3 of the bylaws to keep members informed of all things pertinent
> >> to the company
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> What I see here – is nothing short of disgraceful – and I find it
> >> absolutely shocking that any board member who has a shred of ethics –
> >> would not have resigned in light of what is in those documents.  It is
> >> a slap in the face of this community – and the entire global RIR
> >> system – and I am disgusted and appalled.  I would say to Serge as a
> >> starting point – if you have no shame – resign – now.  I would say to
> >> the chair for your abject failure – resign – now.  I would say to
> >> every member who consented to the final sections of that document –
> >> resign – now.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Andrew
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> *From:*Benjamin Ledoh 
> >> 

Re: [Community-Discuss] Board appointments to fill casual vacancies

[John Walu]

Congrats Muthoni and all,

All the best in your new roles.

rgds.

walu

On Mon, Jul 23, 2018 at 4:53 PM Bope Christian 
wrote:

> [version français ci-dessous]
>
> Dear AFRINIC members and community,
>
> The AFRINIC Board has made the following appointments to fill vacant seats
> in the Board, in terms of Article 13.14 of the AFRINIC Bylaws:
>
>
>- Habib Youssef is appointed to seat 1 (Northern Africa);
>- Vika William Mpisane is appointed to seat 5 (Southern Africa);
>- Dorcas Muthoni Gachari is appointed to seat 6 (Eastern Africa).
>
>
> These appointments are with effect from 18 July 2018, until the next AGMM
> which is planned to be held in June 2019.
>
> At the time the Board made its decision, no candidate for Seat 2 (Western
> Africa) had fulfilled the requirement to provide two references from two
> different AFRINIC resource members in good standing.  Seat 2 (Western
> Africa) therefore remains vacant for the time being.
>
> Additional information:
>
>
>- Call for expressions of interest (17 May 2018) <
>https://www.afrinic.net/en/news/2395-filling-of-the-casual-vacancies>.
>- Call for comments (3 July 2018) <
>
> https://www.afrinic.net/en/news/2441-filling-board-casual-vacancies-call-for-public-comments>.
>
>
>
> Best Regards,
> Christian D. Bope, PhD
> Chairman, AFRINIC Board
>
> --
>
> [français]
>
> Chers membres et communauté d'AFRINIC,
>
> Le Conseil d'AFRINIC a procédé aux nominations suivantes pour pourvoir les
> sièges vacants au sein du Conseil, conformément à l'article 13.14 des
> statuts de l'AFRINIC:
>
>
>- Habib Youssef est nommé au siège 1 (Afrique du Nord);
>- Vika William Mpisane est nommé au siège 5 (Afrique du Sud);
>- Dorcas Muthoni Gachari est nommée au siège 6 (Afrique de l'Est).
>
>
> Ces nominations sont en vigueur du 18 juillet 2018 jusqu'au prochain AGMM
> qui est prévu pour juin 2019.
>
> Au moment où le Conseil a pris sa décision, aucun candidat pour Seat 2
> (Afrique de l'Ouest) n'avait satisfait à l'exigence de fournir deux
> références de deux membres ressources AFRINIC en règle. Le siège 2 (Afrique
> de l'Ouest) reste donc vacant pour le moment.
>
> Information additionnelle:
>
>
>- Appel à manifestation d'intérêt (17 mai 2018) <
>https://www.afrinic.net/fr/news/2395-filling-of-the-casual-vacancies>.
>- Appel aux observations (3 juillet 2018) <
>
> https://www.afrinic.net/fr/news/2441-filling-board-casual-vacancies-call-for-public-comments
>>.
>
>
> Cordialement,
> Christian D. Bope, PhD
> Président du Conseil d’Administration d’AFRINIC
>
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: [Community-Discuss] Filling Board Casual vacancies: Call for Public Comments

[John Walu]

Thanx.

Good to know our next board directors will come from the published list -
and not any other.

rgds.

walu.

On Tue, Jul 3, 2018 at 6:50 PM Bope Christian 
wrote:

>
> Dear Walu and community,
>
> As clearly stated in the process published at <
> https://afrinic.net/images/afrinic-director-selection-process-20180628-en.pdf
> >,  the candidate who doesn't consent will indeed be disqualified.
>
> Best Regards,
> Christian D. Bope, PhD
> Chairman, AFRINIC Board
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 3 Jul 2018, at 5:33 PM, Noah  wrote:
>
>
>
> On Tue, Jul 3, 2018 at 12:38 PM, John Walu  wrote:
>
>> Thnx Chair for your continued guidance during this transition period.
>>
>> I am just a bit concerned about the candidates who chose NOT to disclose
>> their Identity.  What are the chances that they will actually be selected
>> as Directors...given that the final decision is purely done by the Board
>> and not the community?
>>
>> In any case, shouldn't the candidates who chose not to disclose their
>> identity be disqualified based on your Phase 1 process (bullet 3) which
>> states as follows:
>>
>> **Candidates will be required to consent to their information being
>> published*
>>
>> Will be glad to hear your views on this.
>>
>
> +1
>
> Noah
>
>
>
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Re: [Community-Discuss] Filling Board Casual vacancies: Call for Public Comments

[John Walu]

Thnx Chair for your continued guidance during this transition period.

I am just a bit concerned about the candidates who chose NOT to disclose
their Identity.  What are the chances that they will actually be selected
as Directors...given that the final decision is purely done by the Board
and not the community?

In any case, shouldn't the candidates who chose not to disclose their
identity be disqualified based on your Phase 1 process (bullet 3) which
states as follows:

**Candidates will be required to consent to their information being
published*

Will be glad to hear your views on this.

walu.


On Tue, Jul 3, 2018 at 11:56 AM Bope Christian 
wrote:

>
> [version français ci-dessous]
>
> Dear AFRINIC members and community,
>
> The AFRINIC Board has decided on a process for filling the vacant seats in
> the Board of Directors.  The process is published at <
> https://afrinic.net/images/afrinic-director-selection-process-20180628-en.pdf
> >.
>
> 20 expressions of interest have been received, but not all of the
> interested persons have confirmed their consent for publication of their CV
> and other information.  Information about those who have consented is
> published at .  Information about the
> remaining persons will be added if they consent.
>
> The Board invites comments on their suitability for appointment as
> Directors of AFRINIC, via the web form at  .
>
> Comments should be submitted no later than 10 July 2018, 12: 00 UTC.
>
>
> Best Regards,
> Christian D. Bope, PhD
> Chairman, AFRINIC Board
>
> . . .
>
> [français]
>
> Chers membres et communauté d'AFRINIC,
>
> Le Conseil d'administration d'AFRINIC a décidé d'un processus pour
> pourvoir les sièges vacants au sein du Conseil d'administration. Le
> processus est publié à l'adresse <
> https://afrinic.net/images/afrinic-director-selection-process-20180628-en.pdf
> >
>
> 20 manifestations d'intérêt ont été reçues, mais toutes les personnes
> intéressées n'ont pas confirmé leur consentement à la publication de leur
> CV et d'autres informations. Les informations sur ceux qui ont consenti
> sont publiées sur . Des informations sur les
> personnes restantes seront ajoutées si elles y consentent.
>
> Le Conseil sollicite des commentaires sur leur aptitude à être nommé
> Directeur d'AFRINIC, via le formulaire en ligne à l'adresse  <
> https://afrinic.net/bod183>.
>
>  Les commentaires doivent être soumis au plus tard le 10 Juillet 2018, 12:
> 00 UTC.
>
> Cordialement,
> Christian D. Bope, PhD
> Président du Conseil d’Administration d’AFRINIC
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: [Community-Discuss] Faulty result for Western Africa in AfriNIC AGMM Elections

[John Walu]

+1.

walu.

On Mon, Jun 11, 2018 at 9:58 PM Bope Christian 
wrote:

> Dear AFRINIC Members and Community,
>
> There has been much discussion about the results of the elections held
> during the AGMM on 10 May 2018, and associated processes.
>
> I will try to answer these questions:
>
>
>- What is the election process?
>- What happened in previous years?
>- What happened in 2018?
>- What does the election process says about the “None of the above”
>option?
>- How should the result be interpreted when “None of the above”
>receives the most votes?
>- Does AFRINIC have an election appeal process?
>- Should the result stand as previously announced?
>- What are the future actions?
>
>
> ## What is the Election Process?
>
> The Election Process (sometimes called the election guidelines) is
> approved by the Board in terms of the Bylaws article 13.2:
>
> 13.2. The election of the Directors of the company shall be carried out
> in line with the Election process approved by the Board.
>
> The current Election Process was revised and approved by the Board in 2014
> (Resolutions 201404.196 and 201411.218)*, *and is published at <
> https://afrinic.net/en/community/elections/bod-election/process
> >.
> Under section 9.2, the following bullet points appear (the bullet numbers
> are not in the original):
>
> [1] • Voters should only vote for one candidate per category/region. Each
> mark on a ballot paper represents one vote. A ballot with more than one
> mark per category/region will be considered spoilt, and not be counted.
>
> [2] • The ballot paper should provide voters with the option to not vote
> for any candidate (a.k.a. "None of the Above").
>
> [3] • This will be a secret ballot election. An inclusion of any personal
> data on the ballot paper will invalidate the vote and will be counted as
> spoilt.
>
> [4] • Elections will be closed as soon as the last member or proxy
> present in the meeting room casts his/her vote. Candidates with the highest
> number of votes in each category will be declared winners.
>
> [5] • In the event of a tie for an open position, voting for that
> position will be repeated (Only by paper ballot) the same day until there
> is a winner.
>
> [6] • All open positions shall be subject to an election process even if
> there is only one candidate. In that event, if the option [none of the
> above] got more votes than the only candidate, then the seat shall be
> considered vacant and the Board will be requested to apply provisions of
> the Bylaws to temporarily fill the vacant seat.
>
> ## What happened in previous years?
>
> The option to vote for “None of the above” has appeared on AFRINIC Board
> election ballots every year since 2013. In 2017, the final computed results
> contained scores for the “None of the above” option. Since those scores did
> not make “none of the above” the winner, they were not mentioned in the
> announcement of results published at <
> https://afrinic.net/en/news/2139-results-of-afrinic-agmm-election>
>
> ## What happened in 2018?
>
> Three AFRINIC Board seats were up for election at the AGMM on 10 May
> 2018.  For all three seats, “None of the above” received the most votes,
> and as a consequence, the seats have remained vacant for the time being.
> This was the first time that ”None of the above” received the most votes
> for any Board seat.  The result was announced during the AGMM and later
> published at  <
> https://afrinic.net/en/news/2391-results-of-afrinic-agmm-elections >
>
> ## What does the election process say about the “None of the above” option?
>
> Bullet point 2 in the election process specifies that “None of the above”
> should appear as a choice for all seats, not only for seats where there is
> only one candidate.
>
> Bullet point 4 in the election process specifies that the candidate with
> the highest number of votes will be the winner.  However, it is silent
> about what happens if the highest number of votes goes to “None of the
> above” instead of a candidate.
>
> Bullet point 6 in the election process specifies what happens when “None
> of the above” gets the highest number of votes in an election with only one
> candidate, but is silent about seats with multiple candidates.
>
> In summary, the election process is clear about what happens in an
> election with one candidate when “None of the above” wins, but is silent
> about what happens in an election with more than one candidate when “None
> of the above” wins.
>
> ## How should the result be interpreted when “None of the above” receives
> the most votes?
>
> It is a widely-accepted principle that, if a written process is silent on
> some point, then the intent should be considered.
>
> The intended meaning of the “None of the above” option is clear in the
> case of an election with only one candidate: bullet point 6 states that, if
> “None of the above” gets the most votes, then the seat remains vacant.
>
> In an 

Re: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] Faulty result for Western Africa in AfriNIC AGMM Elections

[John Walu]

Just looking at this discussion thread and thinking:

**Does AfriNIC have an election appeal process?*

IF Yes-that should be invoked by the complainant and should kick in.
IF NOT- then someone should propose one, so that we update our  the
Election Guidelines.

Otherwise nominations were done, the slate published, elections held and
results officially announced (faulty or otherwise) at an AGM.

I believe formal change of an election can only occur through an Appeal
process - I am not sure email discussions are recognised as such.

I am not proposing we kill the discussion, but I am not sure if email
discussions can formally revert an election outcome -  however intense and
valid those discussions maybe.

walu.

On Sat, Jun 2, 2018 at 6:22 AM, Owen DeLong  wrote:

>
>
> On Jun 1, 2018, at 10:34 , Ornella GANKPA  wrote:
>
> Hi Mark
>
> My comments inline
>
> Le 30/05/2018 à 19:13, Mark Elkins a écrit :
>
>
>
> On 30/05/2018 19:20, Arnaud AMELINA wrote:
>
> Owen,
>
> 2018-05-29 22:34 GMT+00:00 Owen DeLong :
>
>> Arnaud,
>>
>> While I agree that additional clarity is needed and I agree that there is
>> some validity to the claim that none of the above MAY not have been a
>> legitimate choice to place on the ballot, I think we cannot go changing the
>> rules of the election and violating the expectations of the voters,
>> membership, and community after the election has run.
>>
>
> Voters, membership and community are saying: < let's fix it!>>
>
>
> And members are saying "We are happy with the outcome" (I am, anyway). The
> only folk that should be commenting on this are the voting membership.
>
> Why is the former board member and board chair so nervous about the scope
> of this discussion?  This is a matter of concern for the community at
> large. This is not a remake of the elections. Or maybe,  it is time to
> listen to the other 1409 members who did not vote?
>
>
> If you chose not to vote, then really, you’ve effectively asked us not to
> listen to you.
>
> Just my $0.02.
>
>
>
>
>
>>
>> Nobody raised an objection to the presence of none of the above on the
>> ballot for seat 2 prior to or during the election.
>>
>
> No one is raising objection even now on  this option being on the ballot
> as the guidelines are clear on that. the issue at hand is the correct
> implementation  of the guidelines as written.
>
>
>>
>> Since there were more than enough voters who selected none of the above
>> to change the result among the remaining two candidates, it is not
>> legitimate to simply discard the none of the above votes and declare one of
>> those candidates a winner. Indeed, I would argue that is the worst possible
>> choice among all other options.
>>
>> The other options as I see it are:
>>
>> 1. Allow the board to treat the seat as vacant and appoint a board
>> member until the
>> next AGMM.
>>
>> 2. Treat none of the above as a valid election result (in which case it
>> should be
>> considered the same for all 3 seats) and preclude the board from
>> appointing
>> anyone to the seat(s) until an election can be run.
>>
>>
>> 3. Treat none of the above as a valid election result only for seat 2
>> and preclude
>> the board from appointing seat 2 while still allowing them to appoint
>> seats 5
>> and 6.
>>
>> As I see it, the best option is option 1. It allows the organization to
>> proceed with a full board until the next AGMM where a hopefully more
>> effective election can be accomplished.
>>
>> I think option 2 is bad because it leaves the board precariously
>> short-handed with only 5 of the expected 8 members, including the CEO. (The
>> 3 elected members which remain, whoever is appointed to fill Haitham’s
>> vacancy, and the CEO).
>>
>> The problem I have with option 3 is I have trouble justifying treating
>> the election of “none of the above” differently in this circumstance than
>> in the case of a single unopposed candidate. In both cases, more voters
>> felt that they didn’t want any of the options on the ballot and voted not
>> to elect any fo the candidates. The outcome is, IMHO, the same regardless
>> of the number of candidates and should be handled identically.
>>
>
> Why? There are places in the world where "none of the above" is on ballot
> and has not effect on the results
>
>
> What would the point of that be then - or are people confusing "None of
> the above" with "Abstain" ?
>
> The guidelines  say:
> "The ballot paper should provide voters with the option to not vote for
> any candidate (a. k.a. "None of the Above")"
> It does not say to "reject all  the proposed candidate".
> It says to not vote  for any candidate and the guidelines states that ,
> the candidate with the highest votes wins.
> Let us stop  this harmful interpretation.
>
>
> Wow… This takes sophistry to a new level. Regardless of the polite
> language used in the guidelines, it is an obvious implication that the
> intent is to provide an option to affirmatively vote against all of the
> candidates on the slate.
>
> 

Re: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC and the GDPR

[John Walu]

Hi McTim,

Thnx for posting the ARIN position.  Obviously very detached - based on the
valid reasons they give ;-)

It may also be nice to read the RIPE position.  I think it would be more
relevant for Afrinic. Have a read.


https://labs.ripe.net/Members/Athina/how-we-re-implementing-the-gdpr-the-ripe-database
and
https://labs.ripe.net/Members/Athina/gdpr-legal-grounds-for-lawful-personal-data-processing-and-the-ripe-database

RIPE had to tweak a few things here and there.  Afrinic may borrow useful
lessons there.

Think of a European Telco/ISP with branches/subsidiary in Kenya. The
European Hq  (the Data controllers) may not wish to be penalized by EU
courts for breaches incurred in Kenya by their corresponding subsidiary
(their Data Processor).  Whereas this example may NOT directly apply to the
Afrinic registry/business, it spells out the potential the level of
linkages that need to be analysed.

For example, EU Telcos/ISPs with subsidiaries in Africa may wish to review
the exposure/risk that those subsidiaries present by having their data in
the AfriNIC WHOIS database. They may not want to be caught up in the Data
controller/Data Processor penalties. Whereas they cant force Afrinic to be
compliant (if it is not), they will however chose whether to remain in
Africa and pay penalties - in case of breaches. Iff the feel the risk is
not worth it, the will vote with their feet (divest), is that good for
Afrinic?.

Another  legal route I have observed happening is most Multinationals based
in EU are simply changing ownership, to be domesticated in Africa.
(Barclays, Vodacom?) That way you escape liability. And that is good for
them.

We should also find out what is good for us as Afrinic with respect to this
GDPR business.

walu.

On Wed, Apr 11, 2018 at 6:43 PM, McTim  wrote:

> Here is the ARIN blog post about it:
>
> https://teamarin.net/2018/03/20/personal-data-privacy-
> considerations-at-arin/
>
> Rgds,
>
> McTim
>
> On Wed, Apr 11, 2018 at 11:00 AM, Dabu Sifiso 
> wrote:
>
>>
>> Interesting discussion.
>>
>> It seems many are not aware of the reality of the European Union's extent
>> and how RIR divided the world:
>>
>> https://www.arin.net/vault/about_us/bot/bot2017_1005.html
>> "Merike Kaeo indicated that due to General Data Protection Regulations
>> (GDPR), organizations are going 'dark' with their information because the
>> fines are so high. The President provided more background on GDPR, and
>> indicated ARIN was in good shape with regard to GDPR due to its service
>> region."
>>
>> https://www.nro.net/about-the-nro/list-of-country-codes-and-
>> rirs-ordered-by-country-code/
>> Martinique is part of France and EU but is serviced by ARIN, not by RIPE
>> and there are some more serviced at ARIN.
>>
>> If what Mike and Owen are saying is correct, the RIR being outside of EU
>> is not obliged to be in line with those new rules, but the members from
>> France (La Reunion, Mayotte) are responsible under French/EU laws?
>>
>> The few things I found in regards to GDPR was about exporting private
>> data to outside of the European Union, does that mean those members will
>> not be able to make use of the AFRINIC database unless they get
>> confirmation that AFRINIC is compliant with that GDPR?
>>
>> Will AFRINIC move those members and their information to the RIPE where
>> they will be within the legislation of their own laws?
>>
>>
>>
>> 11.04.2018, 09:30, "Kris Seeburn" :
>>
>> Mike
>>
>> Réunion and Mayotte are the outermost region
>> 
>>  of
>> the European Union  and,
>> as an overseas department of France, part of the Eurozone
>> 
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Apr 11, 2018, at 18:23, Mike Silber  wrote:
>>
>> They are not Member States.
>>
>> And Owen is not really that accurate in his interpretation. He mixes up
>> enforcement (real nexus through operations) with some theoretical
>> applicability which is poorly defined and has no practical expression in
>> the GDPR and will need national DPAs to provide teeth.
>>
>>
>> On 11 Apr 2018, at 16:19, Andrew Alston 
>> wrote:
>>
>> Owen,
>>
>> Would the fact that AfriNIC serves  La Réunion and Mayotte not create
>> such a nexus since both are formally part of the EU?
>>
>> In the same way – there are various EU members served by ARIN?
>>
>>
>> Andrew
>>
>>
>> *From:* Owen DeLong [mailto:o...@delong.com ]
>> *Sent:* 11 April 2018 17:12
>> *To:* Andrew Alston 
>> *Cc:* Mike Silber ; Abibu R. Ntahigiye <
>> ab...@tznic.or.tz>; General Discussions of AFRINIC <
>> community-discuss@afrinic.net>; AfriNIC Discuss <
>> members-disc...@afrinic.net>
>> *Subject:* Re: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC and the 

Re: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC and the GDPR

[John Walu]

Further, unless your in a silly country that was dumb enough to sign a
treaty extending EU’s legal reach into your sovereignty, such as the stupid
congress of the united States, then you can offer the EU a nice big Italian
sign language gesture regarding their GDPR and continue on with business as
usual.

@Owen, the above is not entirely true.

EU regulation/GDPR does affect African countries in general.  Or at least
those wishing to remain trade partners  with European Countries.

Most of Africa has little or no Data Protection/Privacy laws (with a few
exception being Ghana, Mauritius, SA, etc). Kenya for example doesn't have
one.

Should Kenya show the EU the middle finger?

Yes they could. But essentially, that middle finger will translate into
losing money.

A European Union Company would for example NOTdare engage
(Data-wise/Business wise) with a Kenyan partner/subsidiary that for example
sells flowers to European destinations/customers since Kenyan privacy /data
protection environment would be suspect.

Whereas the EU cannot directly hold the Kenyan company liable for breaches,
it will penalize the European company thoroughly. The net effect is that
most European companies would review their risk profiles with African
partners and basically cut linkages or open new ones -  only with
'compliant' countries in Africa.

Unlike US, Africa does need EU Euros ;-). And so we will have to improve
our Data protection regimes. Though it would have been good if we did it
out of our own volition.

Now more specifically for the Afrinic registry,

The board  just need to do an impact analysis of the GDPR on the Afrinic
Company and share with members.

Just off my head, the data within the registry (IP, Whois, etc) would need
to be protected. Essentially, if we have some data sitting in our
Mauritius/SA registries and it relates to European citizens/subject then we
need to review it in light of the GDPR requirements.  Essentially EU
citizens/residents have a whole list of rights to the data (consent,
delete, etc) and whoever is hosting it also has some obligations.

That's my 1bitcoin on the matter ;-)

walu.





On Wed, Apr 11, 2018 at 9:08 AM, Owen DeLong  wrote:

>
>
> On Apr 10, 2018, at 22:42 , Andrew Alston 
> wrote:
>
> Hi AfriNIC Board,
>
> Can this board please **urgently** inform this community as to what
> preparations they have made as regards to compliance with the General Data
> Protection Regulations passed by the European Commision and the board will
> be in a position to give this community a full and complete report as to
> their GDPR compliance status and what will be changing before the 25th of
> May to ensure that when the GDPR comes into force AfriNIC is compliant.
>
>
> Is Mauritius signatory to some treaty making them subject to GDPR?
>
>
> Considering that the regulation comes into force on the 25th of May 2018
> – and AfriNIC is 100% holding data of EU Citizens, which makes them subject
> to the regulations irrespective of the fact that they are domiciled in
> Mauritius – this is an urgent and critical issue.  It has direct impact on
> the whois database, abuse contact information, handling of data submitted
> during application process and potentially even the proposed review policy,
> just to name a few things that I can think of off the top of my head – and
> cannot be ignored.  I would in fact have liked to have seen discussions by
> the board in the minutes that have been published about the GDPR long
> before now – considering the impact – but failing that – the question is
> now being asked.
>
>
> It’s not about EU Citizens. It’s about EU Residents. (Common misconception
> about GDPR).
>
> Further, unless your in a silly country that was dumb enough to sign a
> treaty extending EU’s legal reach into your sovereignty, such as the stupid
> congress of the united States, then you can offer the EU a nice big Italian
> sign language gesture regarding their GDPR and continue on with business as
> usual.
>
> Owen
>
>
> ___
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>
>
___
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Re: [Community-Discuss] Allegation of Harassment

[John Walu]

Sorry,

Someone remind me, what was the allegation against Hytham again?

walu.

On Thu, Mar 22, 2018 at 3:28 PM, Isabel Odida 
wrote:

> Dear community members,
>
> I am in full agreement with you Barry!
> Dear Sunday,
> 1. You are tearing down the community. It is not fair what you're doing
> and neither is it worth it.
> 2. You are exhibiting malice and corruption and that's the last thing the
> community needs.
> 3. You have been unethical and unprofessional in your dealings and we
> can't have a body living with a rotten head.
> 4. You are no longer wanted but you insist on staying, why is that
> Reverend?
>
> I speak on behalf of the women and the youth of this community that should
> be looking up to you.
>
> PS. Is Hytham laying low hoping to be forgotten?
>
> Kind regards,
> Isabel
>
> On Wed, Mar 21, 2018 at 2:32 PM, Barry Macharia 
> wrote:
>
>> Dear Sunday
>>
>> My two cent as member of this community
>> As much as we can wait for the investigation committe to deal with issues
>> of harassment,  Am more concerned about you ,while as the board of director
>> and chairman, used your position to share private board discussion ref:
>> Afrinic business with a junior female member of staff in Afrinic. You sent
>> her messages and you have since admitted to this fact.
>> This is a Violation of the NDA.
>> Dont attempt to cover up the fact that you violated the NDA that you
>> yourself signed.
>> Kindly step down from the board end of story
>>
>>
>> regards
>> barry
>>
>>
>>
>> On 21 Mar 2018, at 12:58, Adebunmi AKINBO  wrote:
>>
>> Dear Community Leaders and Members,
>> 'once online echoes into eternity'
>> If we consider the above i advise that we make our contributions to the
>> committee setup.
>> Kindly await final reports.
>>
>> The image of AFRINIC is more at stake than any individual.
>> Regards.
>> -Akinbo A. A. Cornerstone.
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Mar 21, 2018 at 7:41 AM, Noah  wrote:
>>
>>> Dear All,
>>>
>>> Its unsual for me to keep this quite but i will where a members hat and
>>> the community hat and state my view point in this serious matter.
>>>
>>> On Tue, 20 Mar 2018, 6:52 p.m. Sunday Folayan, 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Since you and a number of people fail to heed the warning that what you
 have is an allegation, Since a number of people cannot read between the
 lines, Since silence is no longer golden but seen as cowadice, I remind you
 again that this remains an allegation and I shall respond appropriately to
 the GC whenever they request of it.

>>> Sunday,
>>>
>>> I am unusually quite especially in the wake of this unproffessional
>>> conduct by yourself that is putting the organisation at risk "considering
>>> your admissions".
>>>
>>> Abraham Lincoln coined that;
>>>
>>> " You can fool some of the people all the time and all of the people
>>> some of the time, but you can not fool all of the people all the time."
>>>
>>> In otherword, the GC and the Investigation committee will go on and
>>> investigate complains of "moral harrassment", "sexual harrassment" and
>>> "usage of inappropriate language in the work place" that is Afrinic and
>>> come up with a report that will be subjected to the board "save for the
>>> conflict of interest" and later be shared with this community.  So the
>>> justice line of "Innocent until proven guilty: shall apply here in the
>>> meantime" for justice must prevail.
>>>
>>>
>>> However, however, however, lets me make some thing very very clear, that
>>> there is the real issue of the unproffessional conduct which involves the
>>> violation of the NDA as a board member and the disregards of ethics and
>>> privacy.
>>>
>>> In your own words and I will quote you below.
>>>
>>>  "I do acknowledge that I shared a chat (with the best intentions)
>>> which should have been treated with more caution, no matter how good the
>>> intention was."
>>>
>>> So in you own wisdom, you really believe this community is foolish. The
>>> information you shared in that chat/chats was not for staff consumption as
>>> it was under the perview of the board as it involves Afrinic operations.
>>>
>>> How does sharing such information as a board member with a junior staff
>>> member who is a subodinate of the CEO and you bragging about it based on
>>> the chat content in any way "good intension" as you put it.
>>>
>>> This is the worst level of unproffessionalism I have ever come across if
>>> you asked me. You sharing what a sus-section of the board have discussed in
>>> terms of the human resources of the organisation with "Nadage" knowing very
>>> well that you had also discussed the same issue privately with the CEO and
>>> then you go ahead and share such chats with Nadage is completely out of
>>> order and undermined the CEO.
>>>
>>> Did it ever cross your mind that by you sharing such information and
>>> more with a junior staff and a subordinate of the