Re: [Community-Discuss] Raising concerns

[Alan Barrett]

Dear Andrew,

I hope you are keeping well.  I promised to answer the following questions 
within two weeks:

>> On 22 Jun 2018, at 12:45, Andrew Alston  
>> wrote:
>> Since you asked me for succinct questions though - I will ask them straight
>> 
>> a.) What is the board doing about the fact that the organisation cannot - by 
>> the bylaws - elect directors - and without elected directors cannot get 
>> quorum to host another AGMM - which is a statutory requirement under 
>> Mauritian law
>> b.) Why is the average time taken to process an application in man hours 
>> sitting at 75 man hours per application through to the beginning of June 
>> this year
>> c.) Why are the travel costs for the organisation now sitting at the highest 
>> levels since 2014 - a 26% rise against a 10.7% rise in revenue
>> d.) Why did AFRINIC see the need to fly a total of 45 staff members to two 
>> member meetings - just 3 shy of the entire staff compliment - what is the 
>> benefit for the members of this - since the members are paying for it
>> e.) Why does the organisation refuse to bind itself to compliance with the 
>> Mauritian code of corporate governance
>> f.) What is the status update of the competitions tribunal enquiry
>> g.) Why is the IT department inside AFRINIC larger than the member services 
>> department that is meant to serve the core interests of AFRINIC - and based 
>> on average salaries is costing the membership base close to half a million 
>> dollars a year - and I point out - is larger than the IT team in a company 
>> that has 250 staff that I know of.
>> h.) Why did AFRINIC spent 40% of its HR budget in the last quarter of 2017
>> i.) When will we be getting a response to the outcome of the investigation 
>> promised to myself and the members of the NAP list as regards a particular 
>> sale of IP space

The Chair of the Board has already provided answers to questions a, e, and f.  
Here are my answers to the other questions.

b. Processing of Applications

Question: Why is the average time taken to process an application in man-hours 
sitting at 75 man-hours per application through to the beginning of June this 
year?

Answer: Answer: I think your estimate of the number of man hours is incorrect, 
for two reasons: The number of staff (hostmasters) who are dedicated full time 
to processing resource applications is 4, not 9; and you seem to have counted 
only the number of applications that eventually lead to an allocation or 
assignment, ignoring those with other outcomes.  Other possible outcomes 
include: spam or invalid tickets being closed quickly; resource allocation 
requests being worked for some time before it is determined that the request is 
not compliant with policy, or being abandoned by the requester.  We do not have 
detailed statistics on the average number of man hours worked per allocation 
request, but it’s certainly less than 75 man hours.  We are working to improve 
our internal statistics.  Resource evaluations often include the following 
time-consuming processes: getting the applicants to provide supporting 
documentation required to evaluate the resource requests, analysing network 
plans, checking usage information on whois, analysing historical usage 
statistics, checking routing announcements, validating the documents supplied.

c. Travel Costs at AFRINIC

Question: Why are the travel costs for the organisation now sitting at the 
highest levels since 2014 - a 26% rise against a 10.7% rise in revenue?

Answer: From 2014 to 2017, revenue increased by 37.4% (from $3,559,660 in 2014 
to $4,892,621 in 2017) and travel expenses decreased by 0.8% (from $529,678 in 
2014 to $525,446 in 2017).  In 2014 travel costs accounted for 14.8% of total 
revenue while in 2017 travel costs accounted for 10.7% of total revenue.  Some 
important kinds of travel include: running AFRINIC meetings; representing 
AFRINIC at meetings of other RIRs, ICANN, operator groups; giving talks at 
meetings; providing learning opportunities for staff. One of the Key Focus 
Areas of AFRINIC’s Strategic Plan 2016-2020 is Community Development and 
Engagement. Some of the strategic objectives in to achieve this is the 
implementation of effective outreach, capacity building, policy discussions and 
technical cooperation initiatives that will ensure AFRINIC staff, Board and 
Community Representatives represent the organization at selected events.  You 
can see a list of 2017 travel in the report at 
.  

d. Staff Travel to AFRINIC Meetings

Question: Why did AFRINIC see the need to fly a total of 45 staff members to 
two member meetings - just 3 shy of the entire staff compliment - what is the 
benefit for the members of this - since the members are paying for it?

Answer: During 2017, 27 staff traveled to the AIS-2017 meeting, and 18 to the 
smaller AFRINIC-27 meeting.  Staff travel to AFRINIC meetings is critical to 
the success of the 

Re: [Community-Discuss] Raising concerns

[Arnaud AMELINA]

Andrew,

Le mer. 27 juin 2018 02:42, Andrew Alston 
a écrit :

> Arnaud,
>
> To be frank - there are many lists that Afrinic is discussed on - NAP is
> one of them - because it contains a few hundred afrinic members - but it is
> not an “afrinic discussion list” in any way shape or form - it is an
> internet exchange list for members of a particular exchange - just happens
> that sometimes Afrinic matters come up there.
>
> Quite frankly - I see it on many lists - people would rather discuss on
> other lists where they are not confronted with the vitriol and accusations
> and at times even blatant racism that occurs on this list - and they are
> free to do so.
>
> This list is not exactly the most... welcoming to people who come here -
> the moment anyone posts a disagreement it gets personal and is full of ad
> hominem attacks and personalization, so, if we don’t want segments of this
> community taking their issues off list - then this list needs to be a lot
> less hostile.
>


I know there are many lists where things are discussed including Afrinic
matters, but my point was  CEO committing for actions from topic discussed
out of afrinic  official discussion fora. Is CEO doing same on all lists ?

And thanks for raising issues with what have been happening on lists:
Participants behaviors and discussions  tempo, personal attacks, etc...

It is obvious that  you play a big role in the disorders  and  disfunction
affecting all Afrinic public lists, chasing people away,  affecting the
community  reputation. The solution can not be in  sub- communities and
parallel  lists.
I expect a better behavior from someone working for a respectable African
 operator and who has served on the Afrinic BoD.

"Be the change you want to see" ?



> And yes - I still oppose the review policy - because I still believe that
> the RSA covers what it needs to - and we do not need anything more - nor do
> I see a point in anything more.  Especially something as what I still
> believe is wide open to attack.
>
> The specifics of the case I referred to in your quoted email were about
> someone who was openly and publically spamming people with an offer in
> contravention of adopter policy and hence the RSA - we don’t need the
> review policy to deal with such
>


If we were to follow  you, this community would not have adopted the "lame
delegation " proposal, which is a review.
RSA does not describe  how review and investigation  should be conducted,
nor does the current  allocation policies. ..
Time is coming for this community to adopt what your colleague called
"sensible  policies". It is the mandatory way  to the Afrinic future.

Arnaud



> Liquid Telecommunications - Group Head Of IP Strategy
> --
> *From:* Arnaud AMELINA 
> *Sent:* Tuesday, June 26, 2018 9:01:45 PM
> *To:* Andrew Alston
> *Cc:* Alan Barrett; community-discuss@afrinic.net
> *Subject:* Re: [Community-Discuss] Raising concerns
>
> Dear Community,
>
> 2018-06-22 8:45 GMT+00:00 Andrew Alston :
>
>> Alan,
>>
>> Sorry to say this - but - these questions - need to be asked and answered
>> in front of the community - this community has a right to the answers.
>>
>> Since you asked me for succinct questions though - I will ask them
>> straight
>>
>> a.) What is the board doing about the fact that the organisation cannot -
>> by the bylaws - elect directors - and without elected directors cannot get
>> quorum to host another AGMM - which is a 
>> i.) When will we be getting a response to the outcome of the
>> investigation promised to myself and the members of the NAP list as regards
>> a particular sale of IP space
>>
>
>
> H. Since when did the NAP list became a forum to discuss AFRINIC
> matters that the CEO commits to?  A special list for a certain community?
> Double standards?
>
> Is he asking for investigation on allocated address space while he is
> strongly opposed to the review policy proposal?
>
> As discussed over and over, we are reaching a stage where review of
> resources usage and investigation when required has become critical to
> AFRINIC operation
>
>
>
>>
>> I can keep going - but I think that is sufficient for now.
>>
>> Alan - if asking questions is attacking people - then there is a problem
>> - because if questions are asked by the members and there are no problems
>> with the answers - there is nothing to feel attacked about.  If however -
>> you are saying that members must ask their  questions in the dark and out
>> of sight of this community - you are again asking me to stay away from the
>> precepts of transparency - and I cannot - and will not - do that.
>>

Re: [Community-Discuss] Raising concerns

[Mike Silber]

Andrew

Your comment below is noted (and I have no doubt you can find dozens more 
examples). I am sure you feel this justified your initial remark.

Marcus’ affront is also noted and I think it is likewise justified.

I do not think that this is the best place to develop definitions of racism.

My request is that you please withdraw your initial remark and let us move 
forward.

There are extreme examples of uncivil behaviour on this list by many people. In 
the historical context of this continent, I think we must be very circumspect 
in ascribing racist motivations to uncivil behaviour.

Thanks

Mike 

> On 28 Jun 2018, at 14:04, Andrew Alston  
> wrote:
> 
> Marcus,
>  
> I refer you to this as one example which was seen on the RPD list – and 
> similar has been seen on this list – I’ll go and dig it all out if need be – 
> but my statements stand across all lists:
>  
> https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/2018/008011.html 
> <https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/2018/008011.html>
>  
> Because that email then refers to an HTML attachment – which is very 
> difficult to read – the rough translation of the last paragraph of that email 
> (thanks google translate) said the following:
>  
> If we want to develop, we real Africans must rather fight against the yoke of 
> the companies you mentioned. And I think that for all my brothers supporting 
> your remarks, I could only remember those words of SAMORA MACHEL. "The day 
> you hear the whites talking about me well, that day, do not share your 
> secrets with me anymore, because that would mean that I would have betrayed 
> you already."
>  
> That – is what I am referring to.
>  
> Andrew
>  
>  
> From: "Marcus K. G. Adomey" 
> Date: Wednesday, 27 June 2018 at 18:50
> To: Arnaud AMELINA , Andrew Alston 
> 
> Cc: "community-discuss@afrinic.net" 
> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] Raising concerns
>  
> Andrew,
> 
> > at times even blatant racism that occurs on this list -
> 
> Your statement above must be backed up with facts.
> 
> This is a serious matter and I called on board to deal with such an 
> accusation with immediate and utmost urgency!
> 
> Thanks
> 
> 
> 
> Marcus
> 
> 
> Get Outlook for Android <https://aka.ms/ghei36>
>  
> From: Andrew Alston 
> Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2018 2:41:55 AM
> To: Arnaud AMELINA
> Cc: community-discuss@afrinic.net
> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] Raising concerns
>  
> Arnaud,
>  
> To be frank - there are many lists that Afrinic is discussed on - NAP is one 
> of them - because it contains a few hundred afrinic members - but it is not 
> an “afrinic discussion list” in any way shape or form - it is an internet 
> exchange list for members of a particular exchange - just happens that 
> sometimes Afrinic matters come up there.
>  
> Quite frankly - I see it on many lists - people would rather discuss on other 
> lists where they are not confronted with the vitriol and accusations and at 
> times even blatant racism that occurs on this list - and they are free to do 
> so.
>  
> This list is not exactly the most... welcoming to people who come here - the 
> moment anyone posts a disagreement it gets personal and is full of ad hominem 
> attacks and personalization, so, if we don’t want segments of this community 
> taking their issues off list - then this list needs to be a lot less hostile.
>  
> And yes - I still oppose the review policy - because I still believe that the 
> RSA covers what it needs to - and we do not need anything more - nor do I see 
> a point in anything more.  Especially something as what I still believe is 
> wide open to attack.
>  
> The specifics of the case I referred to in your quoted email were about 
> someone who was openly and publically spamming people with an offer in 
> contravention of adopter policy and hence the RSA - we don’t need the review 
> policy to deal with such
>  
> Andrew 
>  
> Liquid Telecommunications - Group Head Of IP Strategy
> From: Arnaud AMELINA 
> Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2018 9:01:45 PM
> To: Andrew Alston
> Cc: Alan Barrett; community-discuss@afrinic.net
> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] Raising concerns
>  
> Dear Community, 
>  
> 2018-06-22 8:45 GMT+00:00 Andrew Alston  <mailto:andrew.als...@liquidtelecom.com>>:
>> Alan,
>> 
>> Sorry to say this - but - these questions - need to be asked and answered in 
>> front of the community - this community has a right to the answers.
>> 
>> Since you asked me for succinct questions though - I will ask them straight
>> 
>> a.) What is the board doing about the fact that the organisation cannot - by 
>&g

Re: [Community-Discuss] Raising concerns

[Andrew Alston]

Marcus,

I refer you to this as one example which was seen on the RPD list – and similar 
has been seen on this list – I’ll go and dig it all out if need be – but my 
statements stand across all lists:

https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/2018/008011.html

Because that email then refers to an HTML attachment – which is very difficult 
to read – the rough translation of the last paragraph of that email (thanks 
google translate) said the following:

If we want to develop, we real Africans must rather fight against the yoke of 
the companies you mentioned. And I think that for all my brothers supporting 
your remarks, I could only remember those words of SAMORA MACHEL. "The day you 
hear the whites talking about me well, that day, do not share your secrets with 
me anymore, because that would mean that I would have betrayed you already."

That – is what I am referring to.

Andrew


From: "Marcus K. G. Adomey" 
Date: Wednesday, 27 June 2018 at 18:50
To: Arnaud AMELINA , Andrew Alston 

Cc: "community-discuss@afrinic.net" 
Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] Raising concerns

Andrew,
> at times even blatant racism that occurs on this list -
Your statement above must be backed up with facts.
This is a serious matter and I called on board to deal with such an accusation 
with immediate and utmost urgency!
Thanks


Marcus

Get Outlook for Android<https://aka.ms/ghei36>


From: Andrew Alston 
Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2018 2:41:55 AM
To: Arnaud AMELINA
Cc: community-discuss@afrinic.net
Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] Raising concerns

Arnaud,

To be frank - there are many lists that Afrinic is discussed on - NAP is one of 
them - because it contains a few hundred afrinic members - but it is not an 
“afrinic discussion list” in any way shape or form - it is an internet exchange 
list for members of a particular exchange - just happens that sometimes Afrinic 
matters come up there.

Quite frankly - I see it on many lists - people would rather discuss on other 
lists where they are not confronted with the vitriol and accusations and at 
times even blatant racism that occurs on this list - and they are free to do so.

This list is not exactly the most... welcoming to people who come here - the 
moment anyone posts a disagreement it gets personal and is full of ad hominem 
attacks and personalization, so, if we don’t want segments of this community 
taking their issues off list - then this list needs to be a lot less hostile.

And yes - I still oppose the review policy - because I still believe that the 
RSA covers what it needs to - and we do not need anything more - nor do I see a 
point in anything more.  Especially something as what I still believe is wide 
open to attack.

The specifics of the case I referred to in your quoted email were about someone 
who was openly and publically spamming people with an offer in contravention of 
adopter policy and hence the RSA - we don’t need the review policy to deal with 
such

Andrew

Liquid Telecommunications - Group Head Of IP Strategy

From: Arnaud AMELINA 
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2018 9:01:45 PM
To: Andrew Alston
Cc: Alan Barrett; community-discuss@afrinic.net
Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] Raising concerns

Dear Community,

2018-06-22 8:45 GMT+00:00 Andrew Alston 
mailto:andrew.als...@liquidtelecom.com>>:
Alan,

Sorry to say this - but - these questions - need to be asked and answered in 
front of the community - this community has a right to the answers.

Since you asked me for succinct questions though - I will ask them straight

a.) What is the board doing about the fact that the organisation cannot - by 
the bylaws - elect directors - and without elected directors cannot get quorum 
to host another AGMM - which is a 
i.) When will we be getting a response to the outcome of the investigation 
promised to myself and the members of the NAP list as regards a particular sale 
of IP space


H. Since when did the NAP list became a forum to discuss AFRINIC matters 
that the CEO commits to?  A special list for a certain community? Double 
standards?

Is he asking for investigation on allocated address space while he is strongly 
opposed to the review policy proposal?

As discussed over and over, we are reaching a stage where review of resources 
usage and investigation when required has become critical to AFRINIC operation



I can keep going - but I think that is sufficient for now.

Alan - if asking questions is attacking people - then there is a problem - 
because if questions are asked by the members and there are no problems with 
the answers - there is nothing to feel attacked about.  If however - you are 
saying that members must ask their  questions in the dark and out of sight of 
this community - you are again asking me to stay away from the precepts of 
transparency - and I cannot - and will not - do that.
.

The questions

Re: [Community-Discuss] Raising concerns

[Mike Silber]

Ali +1

I implore all to refrain from the ad hominem attacks (whether directed at an 
individual or a group).

Likewise vague aspersions and engaging in hyperbole increase tensions of a 
community already in a sensitive state. 

It detracts from our ability to engage in reasoned and mature discussion on 
real issues - and certainly ensures that we will not find solutions.

Mike

> On 28 Jun 2018, at 05:03, Ali Hussein  wrote:
> 
> Dear community members
> 
> I may have missed some posts so I apologize in advance if I repeat myself. 
> Here are my thoughts:-
> 
> As a community we MUST condemn anyone and publicly name and shame them if 
> they commit beyond any reasonable doubt such acts as below:-
> 
> 1. Racism/Tribalism
> 2. Sexual harassment 
> 3. Corruption 
> 
> All too often we skirt around such issues, excusing ourselves and giving 
> people the benefit of doubt on these defining matters of our times. To give 
> you context see link below to a story of how Netflix’s CEO fired the Chief 
> Communications Officer for using the N-Word.
> 
> https://work.qz.com/1313072/read-netflix-ceo-reed-hastings-memo-about-the-firing-of-pr-chief-jonathan-friedland-for-using-the-n-word/
>  
> 
> 
> Ali Hussein
> Principal
> AHK & Associates
> +254 0713 601113 
> 

___
Community-Discuss mailing list
Community-Discuss@afrinic.net
https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

Re: [Community-Discuss] Raising concerns

[Ali Hussein]

Dear community members

I may have missed some posts so I apologize in advance if I repeat myself. Here 
are my thoughts:-

As a community we MUST condemn anyone and publicly name and shame them if they 
commit beyond any reasonable doubt such acts as below:-

1. Racism/Tribalism
2. Sexual harassment 
3. Corruption 

All too often we skirt around such issues, excusing ourselves and giving people 
the benefit of doubt on these defining matters of our times. To give you 
context see link below to a story of how Netflix’s CEO fired the Chief 
Communications Officer for using the N-Word.

https://work.qz.com/1313072/read-netflix-ceo-reed-hastings-memo-about-the-firing-of-pr-chief-jonathan-friedland-for-using-the-n-word/

Ali Hussein
Principal
AHK & Associates
+254 0713 601113 

Twitter: @AliHKassim
Skype: abu-jomo
LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim

"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, therefore, is not an act but a 
habit."  ~ Aristotle


Sent from my iPad

> On 28 Jun 2018, at 12:14 PM, Dabu Sifiso  wrote:
> 
> 
> Mr. Adomey,
> 
> I agree with you! 
> 
> The board must take immediate action and apply restrictions. 
> Immediate moderation or full permanent bans on people making racist attacks 
> of any kind!
> 
> Especially if the people in question are or were in official positions within 
> various AFRINIC roles (community functions, elected roles or even current or 
> former staff) or have been recipients of sponsorship of AFRINIC in one form 
> or another.
> No second chance for those! 
> They leave a permanent tarnish the honour given to them and insult the spirit 
> of what this community is.
> 
> In my short time on these lists I have seen many attacks and references being 
> made that are of either very openly racist nature or just with a heavy 
> insinuating tone.
> Some people even got moderated for a while as a consequence.
> Going through the archives anyone can find even more of these aggravating 
> remarks than what was said in the past 6 months or so..
> 
> 
> Could we consider implementing some sort of rules of moderation, leaving no 
> rooms for racist vitriol to be spread here:
> 
> Racist comments from current/former AFRINIC roles or recipients of 
> sponsorship:
> Immediate and permanent ban publicly announced by chairs, this due to the 
> severity of such comments in relation to their standing within the community 
> and how it reflects on all of us,
> 
> Racist comments from others:
> Immediate 2 weeks ban on first offense publicly announced by chairs, only to 
> be lifted after public apologies and 2 weeks has passed, permanent on second.
> 
> Insinuations:
> Immediate moderation publicly announced by chairs, request for public 
> clarification of said comments, if of racist nature apply the above measures, 
> if comments were just of misunderstood, immediate lift of moderation publicly 
> announced by chairs.
> 
> Any of the above decisions left open to be appealed through an appeal 
> committee if the poster feels unfairly treated, with the committee's decision 
> being made public and final.
> 
> It is sad as it would mean to forcibly moderate what should be a free 
> thoughts environment to share ideas and experiences.
> But we cannot control the mind of people and the thoughts they wish to spread 
> out.
> What we can do is force them leave the vitriol out of these lists, there are 
> plenty of other platforms for them to spread out their ill conceived thoughts.
> 
> 
> 27.06.2018, 11:52, "Marcus K. G. Adomey" :
>> Andrew,
>> 
>>> at times even blatant racism that occurs on this list -
>> 
>> Your statement above must be backed up with facts.
>> 
>> This is a serious matter and I called on board to deal with such an 
>> accusation with immediate and utmost urgency!
>> 
>> Thanks
>> 
>> Marcus
>> 
>> Get Outlook for Android
>> 
>> From: Andrew Alston 
>> Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2018 2:41:55 AM
>> To: Arnaud AMELINA
>> Cc: community-discuss@afrinic.net
>> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] Raising concerns
>> 
>> Arnaud,
>> 
>> To be frank - there are many lists that Afrinic is discussed on - NAP is one 
>> of them - because it contains a few hundred afrinic members - but it is not 
>> an “afrinic discussion list” in any way shape or form - it is an internet 
>> exchange list for members of a particular exchange - just happens that 
>> sometimes Afrinic matters come up there.
>> 
>> Quite frankly - I see it on many lists - people would rather discuss on 
>> other lists where they are not confronted with the vitriol and accusations 
>>

Re: [Community-Discuss] Raising concerns

[Dabu Sifiso]

Mr. Adomey,

I agree with you! 

The board must take immediate action and apply restrictions. 
Immediate moderation or full permanent bans on people making racist attacks of 
any kind!

Especially if the people in question are or were in official positions within 
various AFRINIC roles (community functions, elected roles or even current or 
former staff) or have been recipients of sponsorship of AFRINIC in one form or 
another.
No second chance for those! 
They leave a permanent tarnish the honour given to them and insult the spirit 
of what this community is.

In my short time on these lists I have seen many attacks and references being 
made that are of either very openly racist nature or just with a heavy 
insinuating tone.
Some people even got moderated for a while as a consequence.
Going through the archives anyone can find even more of these aggravating 
remarks than what was said in the past 6 months or so..


Could we consider implementing some sort of rules of moderation, leaving no 
rooms for racist vitriol to be spread here:

Racist comments from current/former AFRINIC roles or recipients of sponsorship:
Immediate and permanent ban publicly announced by chairs, this due to the 
severity of such comments in relation to their standing within the community 
and how it reflects on all of us,

Racist comments from others:
Immediate 2 weeks ban on first offense publicly announced by chairs, only to be 
lifted after public apologies and 2 weeks has passed, permanent on second.

Insinuations:
Immediate moderation publicly announced by chairs, request for public 
clarification of said comments, if of racist nature apply the above measures, 
if comments were just of misunderstood, immediate lift of moderation publicly 
announced by chairs.

Any of the above decisions left open to be appealed through an appeal committee 
if the poster feels unfairly treated, with the committee's decision being made 
public and final.

It is sad as it would mean to forcibly moderate what should be a free thoughts 
environment to share ideas and experiences.
But we cannot control the mind of people and the thoughts they wish to spread 
out.
What we can do is force them leave the vitriol out of these lists, there are 
plenty of other platforms for them to spread out their ill conceived thoughts.


27.06.2018, 11:52, "Marcus K. G. Adomey" :
> Andrew,
>
>> at times even blatant racism that occurs on this list -
>
> Your statement above must be backed up with facts.
>
> This is a serious matter and I called on board to deal with such an 
> accusation with immediate and utmost urgency!
>
> Thanks
>
> Marcus
>
> Get Outlook for Android
> 
> From: Andrew Alston 
> Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2018 2:41:55 AM
> To: Arnaud AMELINA
> Cc: community-discuss@afrinic.net
> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] Raising concerns
>
> Arnaud,
>
> To be frank - there are many lists that Afrinic is discussed on - NAP is one 
> of them - because it contains a few hundred afrinic members - but it is not 
> an “afrinic discussion list” in any way shape or form - it is an internet 
> exchange list for members of a particular exchange - just happens that 
> sometimes Afrinic matters come up there.
>
> Quite frankly - I see it on many lists - people would rather discuss on other 
> lists where they are not confronted with the vitriol and accusations and at 
> times even blatant racism that occurs on this list - and they are free to do 
> so.
>
> This list is not exactly the most... welcoming to people who come here - the 
> moment anyone posts a disagreement it gets personal and is full of ad hominem 
> attacks and personalization, so, if we don’t want segments of this community 
> taking their issues off list - then this list needs to be a lot less hostile.
>
> And yes - I still oppose the review policy - because I still believe that the 
> RSA covers what it needs to - and we do not need anything more - nor do I see 
> a point in anything more.  Especially something as what I still believe is 
> wide open to attack.
>
> The specifics of the case I referred to in your quoted email were about 
> someone who was openly and publically spamming people with an offer in 
> contravention of adopter policy and hence the RSA - we don’t need the review 
> policy to deal with such
>
> Andrew
>
> Liquid Telecommunications - Group Head Of IP Strategy
> --------
> From: Arnaud AMELINA 
> Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2018 9:01:45 PM
> To: Andrew Alston
> Cc: Alan Barrett; community-discuss@afrinic.net
> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] Raising concerns
>
> Dear Community,
>
> 2018-06-22 8:45 GMT+00:00 Andrew Alston :
>> Alan,
>>
>> Sorry to say this - but - these questions - need to b

Re: [Community-Discuss] Raising concerns

[Marcus K. G. Adomey]

Andrew,

> at times even blatant racism that occurs on this list -

Your statement above must be backed up with facts.

This is a serious matter and I called on board to deal with such an accusation 
with immediate and utmost urgency!

Thanks



Marcus


Get Outlook for Android<https://aka.ms/ghei36>


From: Andrew Alston 
Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2018 2:41:55 AM
To: Arnaud AMELINA
Cc: community-discuss@afrinic.net
Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] Raising concerns

Arnaud,

To be frank - there are many lists that Afrinic is discussed on - NAP is one of 
them - because it contains a few hundred afrinic members - but it is not an 
“afrinic discussion list” in any way shape or form - it is an internet exchange 
list for members of a particular exchange - just happens that sometimes Afrinic 
matters come up there.

Quite frankly - I see it on many lists - people would rather discuss on other 
lists where they are not confronted with the vitriol and accusations and at 
times even blatant racism that occurs on this list - and they are free to do so.

This list is not exactly the most... welcoming to people who come here - the 
moment anyone posts a disagreement it gets personal and is full of ad hominem 
attacks and personalization, so, if we don’t want segments of this community 
taking their issues off list - then this list needs to be a lot less hostile.

And yes - I still oppose the review policy - because I still believe that the 
RSA covers what it needs to - and we do not need anything more - nor do I see a 
point in anything more.  Especially something as what I still believe is wide 
open to attack.

The specifics of the case I referred to in your quoted email were about someone 
who was openly and publically spamming people with an offer in contravention of 
adopter policy and hence the RSA - we don’t need the review policy to deal with 
such

Andrew

Liquid Telecommunications - Group Head Of IP Strategy

From: Arnaud AMELINA 
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2018 9:01:45 PM
To: Andrew Alston
Cc: Alan Barrett; community-discuss@afrinic.net
Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] Raising concerns

Dear Community,

2018-06-22 8:45 GMT+00:00 Andrew Alston 
mailto:andrew.als...@liquidtelecom.com>>:
Alan,

Sorry to say this - but - these questions - need to be asked and answered in 
front of the community - this community has a right to the answers.

Since you asked me for succinct questions though - I will ask them straight

a.) What is the board doing about the fact that the organisation cannot - by 
the bylaws - elect directors - and without elected directors cannot get quorum 
to host another AGMM - which is a 
i.) When will we be getting a response to the outcome of the investigation 
promised to myself and the members of the NAP list as regards a particular sale 
of IP space


H. Since when did the NAP list became a forum to discuss AFRINIC matters 
that the CEO commits to?  A special list for a certain community? Double 
standards?

Is he asking for investigation on allocated address space while he is strongly 
opposed to the review policy proposal?

As discussed over and over, we are reaching a stage where review of resources 
usage and investigation when required has become critical to AFRINIC operation



I can keep going - but I think that is sufficient for now.

Alan - if asking questions is attacking people - then there is a problem - 
because if questions are asked by the members and there are no problems with 
the answers - there is nothing to feel attacked about.  If however - you are 
saying that members must ask their  questions in the dark and out of sight of 
this community - you are again asking me to stay away from the precepts of 
transparency - and I cannot - and will not - do that.
.

The questions will continue - if not on the community list - then on the member 
list - if not on the members list - on other forums - I do not mind which - but 
- until AFRINIC is prepared to be the transparent organisation it claims to be 
- I will continue to ask the public questions and stand by every single one of 
them.

Andrew


Arnaud

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Re: [Community-Discuss] Raising concerns

[Andrew Alston]

Arnaud,

To be frank - there are many lists that Afrinic is discussed on - NAP is one of 
them - because it contains a few hundred afrinic members - but it is not an 
"afrinic discussion list" in any way shape or form - it is an internet exchange 
list for members of a particular exchange - just happens that sometimes Afrinic 
matters come up there.

Quite frankly - I see it on many lists - people would rather discuss on other 
lists where they are not confronted with the vitriol and accusations and at 
times even blatant racism that occurs on this list - and they are free to do so.

This list is not exactly the most... welcoming to people who come here - the 
moment anyone posts a disagreement it gets personal and is full of ad hominem 
attacks and personalization, so, if we don't want segments of this community 
taking their issues off list - then this list needs to be a lot less hostile.

And yes - I still oppose the review policy - because I still believe that the 
RSA covers what it needs to - and we do not need anything more - nor do I see a 
point in anything more.  Especially something as what I still believe is wide 
open to attack.

The specifics of the case I referred to in your quoted email were about someone 
who was openly and publically spamming people with an offer in contravention of 
adopter policy and hence the RSA - we don't need the review policy to deal with 
such

Andrew

Liquid Telecommunications - Group Head Of IP Strategy

From: Arnaud AMELINA 
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2018 9:01:45 PM
To: Andrew Alston
Cc: Alan Barrett; community-discuss@afrinic.net
Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] Raising concerns

Dear Community,

2018-06-22 8:45 GMT+00:00 Andrew Alston 
mailto:andrew.als...@liquidtelecom.com>>:
Alan,

Sorry to say this - but - these questions - need to be asked and answered in 
front of the community - this community has a right to the answers.

Since you asked me for succinct questions though - I will ask them straight

a.) What is the board doing about the fact that the organisation cannot - by 
the bylaws - elect directors - and without elected directors cannot get quorum 
to host another AGMM - which is a 
i.) When will we be getting a response to the outcome of the investigation 
promised to myself and the members of the NAP list as regards a particular sale 
of IP space


H. Since when did the NAP list became a forum to discuss AFRINIC matters 
that the CEO commits to?  A special list for a certain community? Double 
standards?

Is he asking for investigation on allocated address space while he is strongly 
opposed to the review policy proposal?

As discussed over and over, we are reaching a stage where review of resources 
usage and investigation when required has become critical to AFRINIC operation



I can keep going - but I think that is sufficient for now.

Alan - if asking questions is attacking people - then there is a problem - 
because if questions are asked by the members and there are no problems with 
the answers - there is nothing to feel attacked about.  If however - you are 
saying that members must ask their  questions in the dark and out of sight of 
this community - you are again asking me to stay away from the precepts of 
transparency - and I cannot - and will not - do that.
.

The questions will continue - if not on the community list - then on the member 
list - if not on the members list - on other forums - I do not mind which - but 
- until AFRINIC is prepared to be the transparent organisation it claims to be 
- I will continue to ask the public questions and stand by every single one of 
them.

Andrew


Arnaud

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Re: [Community-Discuss] Raising concerns

[Alan Barrett]

Dear Dabu,

> On 25 Jun 2018, at 12:43, Dabu Sifiso  wrote:
> The numbers at the following location are puzzling:
> https://www.afrinic.net/en/services/statistics/rt-stats
>  
> What is "Total logged" vs "Total opened"?
>  
> The total amount of tickets closed is consistently lower than the total 
> amount opened per month in all the categories.
> The backlog can only increase based on those numbers.
>  
> What happens with the tickets in the "Total still open" category, how are 
> they reported from one month to the next month?
> I assumed they might be in "total logged", but then the numbers do not add up.

I agree, the statistics are difficult to understand, and some things don’t seem 
to add up.  I hope that we can improve the statistics soon.

In the table near the top of the page at 
, I believe that 
“Total logged” is the number of new tickets created; and “Total opened” is the 
number that transitioned from ‘new’ state to ‘open’ state (spam tickets can be 
closed without ever reaching ‘open’ state).  I think that there is no carryover 
from one month to the next, so tickets opened in one month, but closed in 
another month, appear in the “Number opened” count under the first month, but 
do not appear in the “Number closed” count in the last month.  This is 
confusing.

> I can see the older tickets eventually get closed as in May hostmaster had an 
>  "RT Average Turnaround Time" of over 85 days.
> So obviously ticket from previous months were being closed as they 
> drastically dragged the average TT up in May.
>  
> What was the age of the oldest ticket closed in May?
> Was it 5 months old or older?

The oldest ticket closed in May 2018 had been opened on 3 January 2018.

Notice that there are two averages: For hostmaster tickets opened in May and 
also closed in May 2018, the average was 1.69 days; for tickets opened before 
May and closed in May, the average was 85.38 days.

Averages are obviously not a very good way of reporting these statistics.  I 
have sent the IT team some suggestions for better statistics.

> How are the days from the turnaround time counted?
> Does 7 days equal to one calendar week (Monday to Sunday) or to 7 working 
> days (Monday to Friday)?
> 85 = ~12 calendar weeks (12 X 7 days weeks).
> or
> 85 = ~17 weeks of working days (17X5 working days weeks)?

These statistics use calendar days (7 days per week), not working days (5 days 
per week except, minus holidays).

Alan Barrett


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Re: [Community-Discuss] Raising concerns

[Arnaud AMELINA]

Dear CEO,

I'm very worried, It's unfortunate that a CEO waits for complaints from his
staff before rebuking someone who is degrading the image of his institution
(AFRINIC). This is not what is expected of a CEO who knows how to do his
job, because he should have on his own noted the degrading remarks that
some people hold on AFRINIC, and made the necessary arrangements to caution
them about it, in a timely manner.

When it start affecting staff, the damage may be big and irreversible.

Arnaud.

2018-06-22 8:28 GMT+00:00 Alan Barrett :

> Dear Andrew,
>
> You may have some legitimate questions or concerns, but the way you are
> raising them is extremely destructive to staff morale.  Staff watch this
> mailing list and see the organisation being attacked, or their team being
> attacked.  Also, I can’t reasonably extract questions from the deluge of
> many email messages per day.
>
> Please use a more appropriate channel for raising concerns.  Here are some
> options:
>
> * When a ticket is closed, the person who opened the ticket is sent a link
> to a satisfaction survey.
>
> * When you are dissatisfied with service, you can send a message to
> .
>
> * If you have questions or concerns that you would like the CEO to deal
> with, please send them to .
>
> * If you have questions or concerns that you would like the Board to deal
> with, please send them to 
>
> Alan Barrett
> CEO, AFRINIC
>
>
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Re: [Community-Discuss] Raising concerns

[Dabu Sifiso]

  Mr. Barret, The numbers at the following location are puzzling:https://www.afrinic.net/en/services/statistics/rt-stats What is "Total logged" vs "Total opened"? The total amount of tickets closed is consistently lower than the total amount opened per month in all the categories.The backlog can only increase based on those numbers. What happens with the tickets in the "Total still open" category, how are they reported from one month to the next month?I assumed they might be in "total logged", but then the numbers do not add up. I can see the older tickets eventually get closed as in May hostmaster had an  "RT Average Turnaround Time" of over 85 days.So obviously ticket from previous months were being closed as they drastically dragged the average TT up in May. What was the age of the oldest ticket closed in May?Was it 5 months old or older? How are the days from the turnaround time counted?Does 7 days equal to one calendar week (Monday to Sunday) or to 7 working days (Monday to Friday)?85 = ~12 calendar weeks (12 X 7 days weeks).or85 = ~17 weeks of working days (17X5 working days weeks)?   25.06.2018, 02:19, "Saul Stein" :> Hi Alan,> I must be honest, those surveys are really a waste of time and don't ask any> relevant or meaningful feedback.> I have very rarely had a ticket go well or timeously and the surveys have> never facilitated the appropriate response.> I have tried addressing it in the past, but I don’t think it went anywhere.>> Saul>> -Original Message-> From: Alan Barrett [mailto:alan.barr...@afrinic.net]> Sent: 22 June 2018 10:28 AM> To: Andrew Alston > Cc: community-discuss@afrinic.net> Subject: [Community-Discuss] Raising concerns>> Dear Andrew,>> You may have some legitimate questions or concerns, but the way you are> raising them is extremely destructive to staff morale. Staff watch this> mailing list and see the organisation being attacked, or their team being> attacked. Also, I can’t reasonably extract questions from the deluge of> many email messages per day.>> Please use a more appropriate channel for raising concerns. Here are some> options:>> * When a ticket is closed, the person who opened the ticket is sent a link> to a satisfaction survey.>> * When you are dissatisfied with service, you can send a message to> .>> * If you have questions or concerns that you would like the CEO to deal> with, please send them to .>> * If you have questions or concerns that you would like the Board to deal> with, please send them to >> Alan Barrett> CEO, AFRINIC>> ___> Community-Discuss mailing list> Community-Discuss@afrinic.net> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>> ___> Community-Discuss mailing list> Community-Discuss@afrinic.net> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss___
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Re: [Community-Discuss] Raising concerns

[Saul Stein]

Hi Alan,
I must be honest, those surveys are really a waste of time and don't ask any 
relevant or meaningful feedback.
I have very rarely had a ticket go well or timeously and the surveys have 
never facilitated the appropriate response.
I have tried addressing it in the past, but I don’t think it went anywhere.

Saul


-Original Message-
From: Alan Barrett [mailto:alan.barr...@afrinic.net]
Sent: 22 June 2018 10:28 AM
To: Andrew Alston 
Cc: community-discuss@afrinic.net
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Raising concerns

Dear Andrew,

You may have some legitimate questions or concerns, but the way you are 
raising them is extremely destructive to staff morale.  Staff watch this 
mailing list and see the organisation being attacked, or their team being 
attacked.  Also, I can’t reasonably extract questions from the deluge of 
many email messages per day.

Please use a more appropriate channel for raising concerns.  Here are some 
options:

* When a ticket is closed, the person who opened the ticket is sent a link 
to a satisfaction survey.

* When you are dissatisfied with service, you can send a message to 
.

* If you have questions or concerns that you would like the CEO to deal 
with, please send them to .

* If you have questions or concerns that you would like the Board to deal 
with, please send them to 

Alan Barrett
CEO, AFRINIC


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Re: [Community-Discuss] Raising concerns

[Alan Barrett]

> On 22 Jun 2018, at 12:45, Andrew Alston  
> wrote:
> Since you asked me for succinct questions though - I will ask them straight
> 
> a.) What is the board doing about the fact that the organisation cannot - by 
> the bylaws - elect directors - and without elected directors cannot get 
> quorum to host another AGMM - which is a statutory requirement under 
> Mauritian law
> b.) Why is the average time taken to process an application in man hours 
> sitting at 75 man hours per application through to the beginning of June this 
> year
> c.) Why are the travel costs for the organisation now sitting at the highest 
> levels since 2014 - a 26% rise against a 10.7% rise in revenue
> d.) Why did AFRINIC see the need to fly a total of 45 staff members to two 
> member meetings - just 3 shy of the entire staff compliment - what is the 
> benefit for the members of this - since the members are paying for it
> e.) Why does the organisation refuse to bind itself to compliance with the 
> Mauritian code of corporate governance
> f.) What is the status update of the competitions tribunal enquiry
> g.) Why is the IT department inside AFRINIC larger than the member services 
> department that is meant to serve the core interests of AFRINIC - and based 
> on average salaries is costing the membership base close to half a million 
> dollars a year - and I point out - is larger than the IT team in a company 
> that has 250 staff that I know of.
> h.) Why did AFRINIC spent 40% of its HR budget in the last quarter of 2017
> i.) When will we be getting a response to the outcome of the investigation 
> promised to myself and the members of the NAP list as regards a particular 
> sale of IP space

Thank you.  I will pass some of these on to the Board, and I will answer the 
operational questions within two weeks.

Alan Barrett


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Re: [Community-Discuss] Raising concerns

[Andrew Alston]

Alan,

Sorry to say this - but - these questions - need to be asked and answered in 
front of the community - this community has a right to the answers.

Since you asked me for succinct questions though - I will ask them straight

a.) What is the board doing about the fact that the organisation cannot - by 
the bylaws - elect directors - and without elected directors cannot get quorum 
to host another AGMM - which is a statutory requirement under Mauritian law
b.) Why is the average time taken to process an application in man hours 
sitting at 75 man hours per application through to the beginning of June this 
year
c.) Why are the travel costs for the organisation now sitting at the highest 
levels since 2014 - a 26% rise against a 10.7% rise in revenue
d.) Why did AFRINIC see the need to fly a total of 45 staff members to two 
member meetings - just 3 shy of the entire staff compliment - what is the 
benefit for the members of this - since the members are paying for it
e.) Why does the organisation refuse to bind itself to compliance with the 
Mauritian code of corporate governance
f.) What is the status update of the competitions tribunal enquiry
g.) Why is the IT department inside AFRINIC larger than the member services 
department that is meant to serve the core interests of AFRINIC - and based on 
average salaries is costing the membership base close to half a million dollars 
a year - and I point out - is larger than the IT team in a company that has 250 
staff that I know of.
h.) Why did AFRINIC spent 40% of its HR budget in the last quarter of 2017
i.) When will we be getting a response to the outcome of the investigation 
promised to myself and the members of the NAP list as regards a particular sale 
of IP space

I can keep going - but I think that is sufficient for now.  

Alan - if asking questions is attacking people - then there is a problem - 
because if questions are asked by the members and there are no problems with 
the answers - there is nothing to feel attacked about.  If however - you are 
saying that members must ask their  questions in the dark and out of sight of 
this community - you are again asking me to stay away from the precepts of 
transparency - and I cannot - and will not - do that.

A fundamental principle of a non-profit organisation is accountability to the 
members who fund the organisation - and in a truly transparent organisation 
where there is nothing going wrong - the questions I have been asking - over 
and over and over again - which remain unanswered - would not be embarrassing - 
there would be simple answers.  If there was something wrong, it would be a 
case of, we're messing this up, and we're fixing it - done and dusted and the 
questions go away. However, in an organisation that has consistently refused to 
engage and answer the questions - and in many cases has adopted the principles 
of "whataboutism"  (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism), which I must 
admit is a very effective tactic that has been well demonstrated by the likes 
of Donald Trump - then these constant questions become a problem and we see 
responses like the one below.

The questions will continue - if not on the community list - then on the member 
list - if not on the members list - on other forums - I do not mind which - but 
- until AFRINIC is prepared to be the transparent organisation it claims to be 
- I will continue to ask the public questions and stand by every single one of 
them.

Andrew


-Original Message-
From: Alan Barrett [mailto:alan.barr...@afrinic.net] 
Sent: 22 June 2018 11:28
To: Andrew Alston 
Cc: community-discuss@afrinic.net
Subject: Raising concerns

Dear Andrew,

You may have some legitimate questions or concerns, but the way you are raising 
them is extremely destructive to staff morale.  Staff watch this mailing list 
and see the organisation being attacked, or their team being attacked.  Also, I 
can’t reasonably extract questions from the deluge of many email messages per 
day.

Please use a more appropriate channel for raising concerns.  Here are some 
options:

* When a ticket is closed, the person who opened the ticket is sent a link to a 
satisfaction survey.

* When you are dissatisfied with service, you can send a message to .

* If you have questions or concerns that you would like the CEO to deal with, 
please send them to .

* If you have questions or concerns that you would like the Board to deal with, 
please send them to 

Alan Barrett
CEO, AFRINIC

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[Community-Discuss] Raising concerns

[Alan Barrett]

Dear Andrew,

You may have some legitimate questions or concerns, but the way you are raising 
them is extremely destructive to staff morale.  Staff watch this mailing list 
and see the organisation being attacked, or their team being attacked.  Also, I 
can’t reasonably extract questions from the deluge of many email messages per 
day.

Please use a more appropriate channel for raising concerns.  Here are some 
options:

* When a ticket is closed, the person who opened the ticket is sent a link to a 
satisfaction survey.

* When you are dissatisfied with service, you can send a message to .

* If you have questions or concerns that you would like the CEO to deal with, 
please send them to .

* If you have questions or concerns that you would like the Board to deal with, 
please send them to 

Alan Barrett
CEO, AFRINIC


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