Re: [Community-Discuss] [rpd] New Policy Proposal - "Anti-Shutdown (AFPUB-2017-GEN-001-DRAFT-01)"

[Tutu Ngcaba]

My brothers happy Easter,

The Afrinic CEO already discuss about the planning of the open discussion
in the Nairobi at AIS conference.

So my brothers let us discuss all open during this the meeting as our
government officials will be there and our technology people too.

The Afrinic can share more topics too about the challenges as some brothers
here said the shuts cost economic damage.

But you know also they governmemt can ask the private isp to give internet
to the president. They government can even use the satelite like one
project in our village. The satelite gives internet also from people from
America so even if the Afrinic can implement such bad policy, the
government will just laugh at the Afrinic.

I know the government people can even use the 3G internet on their mobile.
They can even ask the isp to give them NAT internet if the Afrinic is
saying no IP address to the president office. The ISP will panic not to
loose the license for ISP and it will make president office have internet.

Like i make some research and in the country of North Korea they have
strict internet and they get from the China. This is power of government
when you want to use force to the government.

Even in the UK  i read the government there has the power to shuts the
internet.

So this topic only open discussion which involve our government can make
aware that some impact if they shut but there ia other solutions if the
governmment is afraid with national security due to the internet.

Best Regards,

Tutu Ngcaba
Kwazulu Techno Hubs
South Africa


On 14 Apr 2017 12:39 p.m., "Andrew Alston" 
wrote:

Hi Walu,



Speaking as an individual….



It’s an interesting question – though realistically – there have been talks
and proposals about “national internet registries” for years – and the ship
has kind of sailed.



Firstly – with regards to v4 – there are no resources to distribute to
these national internet registries left – and the only way that a national
internet registry could be formed would be for them to get resources to
allocate into such a registry – and the AfriNIC policies currently don’t
allow for it.  Effectively, a policy proposal would have to come forward
that allowed an entity to hold resources and allocate them within the rules
of the allocation policy – I don’t see any such thing occurring.



Secondly – it is very difficult for a government to force an organisation
to give up already allocated space – because again – that would be a
transfer of resources under the current policies – and that can only happen
in the case of mergers and acquisitions at the moment – or in the case of
an internal transfer which has to be agreed by both parties under the
internal transfer policy.



We have to remember, that AfriNIC is an independent organisation and
external governments do not have legal jurisdiction – not without treaties
that would have to be ratified and the location where AfriNIC is domiciled
would have to be a signatory to said treaties.  At which point, it’s
possible to switch jurisdictions.



Yes – I see a lot of noise coming from this – but do I believe that
governments can do more harm in that scenario than they are by shutting
down the Internet?  No – not at all.  There is simply no evidence or
mechanism that exists for this to happen.



And yes – we know there are consequences – but let us also look at the
reverse side of the consequences – to do nothing and have the internet
shutdown – how many people lose their jobs when ISP’s no longer have
revenue coming in to pay those people?  How much damage is done to the user
on the ground when the internet is shut down?  The stats are out that 2.4
billion dollars haemorrhaged out of economies due to shutdowns, what are
the consequences of doing nothing in that regard?



Everything has its pros and cons – I simply argue that standing by and
watch it happening with no concrete action, does far more harm than
attempting to stand for what is right.







*From:* Walubengo J [mailto:jw...@yahoo.com]
*Sent:* 12 April 2017 18:44
*To:* Andrew Alston ; Arsène Tungali <
arsenebag...@gmail.com>; Mukom Akong T. 
*Cc:* r...@afrinic.net
*Subject:* Re: [rpd] New Policy Proposal - "Anti-Shutdown
(AFPUB-2017-GEN-001-DRAFT-01)"



@Andrew,



I have no objection to attempts to reign in 'internet averse' governments.
My worry is what will happen next if and after the policy passes?



Most of us are aware of the ITU/ICANN tensions with respect to internet
governance...will such a policy give impetus or reason for even the
'moderate' governments to finally have a tangible reason to push for and
get their national or regional RIRs?



Perhaps at the moment the effort and impetus to go national/regional RIRs
has not gained traction simply because there has not been any thing
substantive enough to rally the governments together for such a move. Could
such a policy be the missing 

Re: [Community-Discuss] [rpd] New Policy Proposal - "Anti-Shutdown (AFPUB-2017-GEN-001-DRAFT-01)"

[Joe Abley]

On 13 Apr 2017, at 23:45, Chevalier du Borg  wrote:

> 2017-04-13 18:37 GMT+04:00 Joe Abley :
> However, I found Kieran's article to be pretty balanced and accurate.
> 
> You can say that if you did not read the title and subtitle

I guess we can just agree to disagree on that.


Joe


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Re: [Community-Discuss] [rpd] New Policy Proposal - "Anti-Shutdown (AFPUB-2017-GEN-001-DRAFT-01)"

[Chevalier du Borg]

2017-04-13 18:37 GMT+04:00 Joe Abley :

> However, I found Kieran's article to be pretty balanced and accurate.


You can say that if you did not read the title and subtitle

"
No more IP addresses for countries that shut down internet accessAfrinic
considers punitive policy for errant governments
"

By not making different between the community and the company, it is
misleading. sensational liek fake news. i agree the content is ok, but is
not excusable because of the title and subtitle.


-- 
Borg le Chevalier
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Re: [Community-Discuss] [rpd] New Policy Proposal - "Anti-Shutdown (AFPUB-2017-GEN-001-DRAFT-01)"

[Badru Ntege]

Andrew 

On 4/13/17, 5:35 PM, "Andrew Alston" <andrew.als...@liquidtelecom.com> wrote:


That being said – at the request of other media organisations – the authors 
have chosen to give their perspectives.  So far one such article has actually 
been published and can be found here:

 

https://qz.com/957821/a-proposal-to-africas-internet-registry-afrinic-aims-to-deny-governments-ip-addresses-for-shutting-down-the-internet/

 


Not sure about the correctness when it comes to how the RIR  PDP process should 
be working but also what a sitting board member can and cannot do. (baring in 
mind the board menber is a community member first.)

Can we get a guidance position on this from either GC or CEO.

Regards

 Badru




Thanks

 

Andrew

 

 

From: Badru Ntege [mailto:badru.nt...@nftconsult.com] 
Sent: 13 April 2017 17:21
To: Arsène Tungali <arsenebag...@gmail.com>; Bope Domilongo Christian 
<christianb...@gmail.com>
Cc: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss@afrinic.net>; rpd 
<r...@afrinic.net>
Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] [rpd] New Policy Proposal - "Anti-Shutdown 
(AFPUB-2017-GEN-001-DRAFT-01)"

 

Arsene

 

The community should be wary not to be played.

 

 

On 4/13/17, 3:59 PM, "Arsène Tungali" <arsenebag...@gmail.com> wrote:

Just read the article on theregistry.co.uk, a UK mainstream media, while no 
African newspaper thought of publishing it (or are they even aware of the 
ongoing discussion?) I simply love it and the way they put it. Anyone who is 
not familiar with this process will think it is something the AFRINIC Board is 
working on, rather than a simple proposal put forward by three community 
members (even if authors were mentioned as well).

Not wanting to point any connections is this not the same media house that 
published a private email to discredit a member of the community not long ago. 
??

 

And again this is the same media house that has historically published 
information about AfriNIC where a certain member of the community is 
involved…..just saying

 

 

 

 

In my opinion, authors of this article made it sound like a warning to African 
governments, that Afrinic is working on a policy that will punish them if they 
dare shutting down the Internet; which is beautiful! I am sure if some 
governments read it, their impression (or trust) on afrinic will start to be 
altered (as many people have pointed out on this list). 

This surely is something for the governance committee to look into.  

 

A touch of “Tilapia” arround this whole policy proposal.  

 

 

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Re: [Community-Discuss] [rpd] New Policy Proposal - "Anti-Shutdown (AFPUB-2017-GEN-001-DRAFT-01)"

[Andrew Alston]

Just for the sake of clarity.

The authors had no contact with theregister before that article went live – and 
we note certain factual inaccuracies in what was published and will reach out 
to get them corrected.

That being said – at the request of other media organisations – the authors 
have chosen to give their perspectives.  So far one such article has actually 
been published and can be found here:

https://qz.com/957821/a-proposal-to-africas-internet-registry-afrinic-aims-to-deny-governments-ip-addresses-for-shutting-down-the-internet/

Thanks

Andrew


From: Badru Ntege [mailto:badru.nt...@nftconsult.com]
Sent: 13 April 2017 17:21
To: Arsène Tungali <arsenebag...@gmail.com>; Bope Domilongo Christian 
<christianb...@gmail.com>
Cc: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss@afrinic.net>; rpd 
<r...@afrinic.net>
Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] [rpd] New Policy Proposal - "Anti-Shutdown 
(AFPUB-2017-GEN-001-DRAFT-01)"

Arsene

The community should be wary not to be played.


On 4/13/17, 3:59 PM, "Arsène Tungali" 
<arsenebag...@gmail.com<mailto:arsenebag...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Just read the article on theregistry.co.uk<http://theregistry.co.uk>, a UK 
mainstream media, while no African newspaper thought of publishing it (or are 
they even aware of the ongoing discussion?) I simply love it and the way they 
put it. Anyone who is not familiar with this process will think it is something 
the AFRINIC Board is working on, rather than a simple proposal put forward by 
three community members (even if authors were mentioned as well).
Not wanting to point any connections is this not the same media house that 
published a private email to discredit a member of the community not long ago. 
??

And again this is the same media house that has historically published 
information about AfriNIC where a certain member of the community is 
involved…..just saying




In my opinion, authors of this article made it sound like a warning to African 
governments, that Afrinic is working on a policy that will punish them if they 
dare shutting down the Internet; which is beautiful! I am sure if some 
governments read it, their impression (or trust) on afrinic will start to be 
altered (as many people have pointed out on this list).
This surely is something for the governance committee to look into.

A touch of “Tilapia” arround this whole policy proposal.


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Re: [Community-Discuss] [rpd] New Policy Proposal - "Anti-Shutdown (AFPUB-2017-GEN-001-DRAFT-01)"

[Badru Ntege]

Arsene

The community should be wary not to be played.


On 4/13/17, 3:59 PM, "Arsène Tungali"  wrote:
Just read the article on theregistry.co.uk, a UK mainstream media, while no 
African newspaper thought of publishing it (or are they even aware of the 
ongoing discussion?) I simply love it and the way they put it. Anyone who is 
not familiar with this process will think it is something the AFRINIC Board is 
working on, rather than a simple proposal put forward by three community 
members (even if authors were mentioned as well).

Not wanting to point any connections is this not the same media house that 
published a private email to discredit a member of the community not long ago. 
??

And again this is the same media house that has historically published 
information about AfriNIC where a certain member of the community is 
involved…..just saying





In my opinion, authors of this article made it sound like a warning to African 
governments, that Afrinic is working on a policy that will punish them if they 
dare shutting down the Internet; which is beautiful! I am sure if some 
governments read it, their impression (or trust) on afrinic will start to be 
altered (as many people have pointed out on this list). 

This surely is something for the governance committee to look into.  
 
A touch of “Tilapia” arround this whole policy proposal.  



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Re: [Community-Discuss] [rpd] New Policy Proposal - "Anti-Shutdown (AFPUB-2017-GEN-001-DRAFT-01)"

[Bope Domilongo Christian]

Dear all,

I have been following this policy discussion passionately.

I do understand the need of keeping Internet up all the time knowing it's
importance for economies, educations, developpement and other.

We should engage countries using different channels such AFGWG, AU and
other multistakeholder in our community.

What this policy is trying to solve is not in AfriNIC mandate or might
potentially serve personal interest and other interest groups not even the
people's or Community at large.

I recall during AfriNIC meeting in Mauritius last December 2016, the same
group of people claim that the Audit Policy put the organizational at  Risk
because it will revoke ressouces if Members dit not complied. Today theu
want AfriNIC to revoke ressouces.  What will the anti - shutdown  do to the
organization?

To be honest this policy  is not solving anything instead is putting
AfriNIC at high risk and need to be withdrawn.

On 13 Apr 2017 6:48 a.m., "Tutu Ngcaba"  wrote:


On 13 Apr 2017 12:32 p.m., "Andrew Alston" 
wrote:

Interestingly enough – this policy has already served as a catalyst for
global discussion – and continues to do so.



It has appeared all over twitter, it appeared on theregister.co.uk, it has
appeared in discussion

I read and this is sad.

In that fake article like Donald Trump would say, it states that:

https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/04/12/no_ip_addresses_for_countries/

"Governments that cut off internet access to their citizens could find
themselves refused new IP addresses under a proposal put forward by one of
the five global IP allocation organizations."

The fake article continues with another lie about the Afrinic meeting in
Botwana in June as below.

"The suggested clampdown

will
be considered at the next meeting of internet registry Afrinic in Botswana
in June: "

This Writter Mccarthy must have been paid to promote this nonsense about
the Afrinic and our region and to make it worse its on foreign media.

What kind of image such article will have on the Afrinic.

Did the Arthors have anything to do with this.?

Can the Afrinic condemn this kind of article written to disgress it even if
the Afrinic condemns internet shuts.

Best Regards,

Tutu Ngcaba
Kwazulu Techno Hubs
South Africa

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