Re: [computer-go] results of computer olympiad 9x9
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Peter Drake [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes The 2008 US Go Congress is August 2-9, which overlaps with the end of the Beijing events. This makes a case for holding any such tournament near the end of the Congress. Thanks for the tip! In 2008, the European Go Congress (in Leksand, Sweden) will include a computer Go event. The Congress will run from July 26 to August 9; and the computer go is very likely to be on Wednesday August 6th. So I rather hope you will try to avoid clashing with it. In related news, it looks like the 1st World Mind Sports Games (sorry, humans only) will also be held in Beijing in October of 2008: http://www.worldbridge.org/competitions/Calendar/files/WorldMindSportsGames2007.pdf For dates of future computer Go events see http://www.computer-go.info/events/future.html. If anyone has any information not shown on that list, I hope they will let me know so that I can add it. Nick -- Nick Wedd[EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
[computer-go] Opening
Heikki Levanto wrote: I am sure there is a mathematically sound way to measure how symmetric the evaluation is, but my math is a bit rusty, so I am asking if someone can come up with a good way. After that, I'm asking if various programmers would be willing to run this test, and publish the results? A simple idea: 1. Even if you have 3 different types of symmetry .. a. X symmetry (x,y) v.s. (bs+1-x, y) b. Y symmetry (x,y) v.s. (x, bs+1-y) c. Center symmetry (x,y) v.s. (bs+1-x, bs+1-y) (bs+1 = board size + 1 assuming 1-based indices for clarity.) .. it is clear from their expression that the third is implied by the first 2. 2. You could use a simple measure of skewness: http://www.itl.nist.gov/div898/handbook/eda/section3/eda35b.htm Note that skewness measures the *lack* of symmetry. Two measures: One for X and one for Y 3. Possible objections: Since these measures use the third moment of a distribution, they are very sensible to the deviation for the mean. In other words: skewness between the 2nd and 18th row of a 19x19 board weight much more than between the 9th and 11th. To compensate this, you can compute another estimator with the rows (same for the columns) inverted in each half board. Toggle columns: 1 - 9 and 11 - 19 2 - 8 and 12 - 18 ... so you would have 4 estimators: X-direct, X-inverted, Y-direct, Y-inverted. Use the highest, i.e., the worst. Jacques. Java is a religion. Asm hackers don't spend valuable picoseconds arguing with Believers. ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
Re: [computer-go] Java hounds salivate over this:
libego is a very optimised library. indeed, very hard to change. If it fits your needs, go for it. Its simply the best you can do. BUT, If you want to try different MCGO approachs with libego, I'm sure it will be far more hard to change than using slowish java. I've been refactoring the libego playouts to allow me to easily plug in different move choosing algorithms, and choose between them at run-time. I was willing to accept a slight slowdown, but ironically got a 5% speed-up (on random playouts). I want to work on the interface a bit, but then I'll post my code. Darren ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
Re: [computer-go] Java hounds salivate over this:
Posting that code would be really helpful! I too was thinking about modifying libego's move choosing algorithms. But I haven't gotten anywhere yet since I have been working on a proof of concept experiment for what I will be planning to do later. - George On 6/17/07, Darren Cook [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: libego is a very optimised library. indeed, very hard to change. If it fits your needs, go for it. Its simply the best you can do. BUT, If you want to try different MCGO approachs with libego, I'm sure it will be far more hard to change than using slowish java. I've been refactoring the libego playouts to allow me to easily plug in different move choosing algorithms, and choose between them at run-time. I was willing to accept a slight slowdown, but ironically got a 5% speed-up (on random playouts). I want to work on the interface a bit, but then I'll post my code. Darren ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/ ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
Re: [computer-go] Java hounds salivate over this:
We also have just become comfortable enough with libego to be thinking about how we intended to add the go domain knowledge for heavier playouts. Cheers, David On 17, Jun 2007, at 3:15 PM, George Dahl wrote: Posting that code would be really helpful! I too was thinking about modifying libego's move choosing algorithms. But I haven't gotten anywhere yet since I have been working on a proof of concept experiment for what I will be planning to do later. - George On 6/17/07, Darren Cook [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: libego is a very optimised library. indeed, very hard to change. If it fits your needs, go for it. Its simply the best you can do. BUT, If you want to try different MCGO approachs with libego, I'm sure it will be far more hard to change than using slowish java. I've been refactoring the libego playouts to allow me to easily plug in different move choosing algorithms, and choose between them at run- time. I was willing to accept a slight slowdown, but ironically got a 5% speed-up (on random playouts). I want to work on the interface a bit, but then I'll post my code. Darren ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/ ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/ ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
Re: [computer-go] Congratulations to GNU and to MoGoBot19!
Let's assume the game time is set at 10 ms. A random move computer program will win over any player in this sub-space of the universe who does not have a chip as well as an electronic interface in his body. Would such a champion mean anything? -Original Message- From: Don Dailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: computer-go computer-go@computer-go.org Sent: Sun, 10 Jun 2007 9:19 pm Subject: Re: [computer-go] Congratulations to GNU and to MoGoBot19! On Sun, 2007-06-10 at 21:40 -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Just one comment. The statement that 'it (CrazySton) has a 2k rating on KGS...' could be misleading. Crazystone never achived 2k rating against human player in real gemes. It achieved the ranking by basically winning on time. Daniel Liu I don't think I understand this. Is there a KGS problem with ime-keeping? id something happen that unfairly caused the player to lose on time? Those games should be erased and the ratings retracted if that's easy or illiam Shubert to do. Did the player(s) complain about this? - Don ___ omputer-go mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] ttp://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
Re: [computer-go] Question regarding archives and avoiding spam (fwd)
i haven't found that i've received any additonal spam as a result of being a member of (or of posting to) this list. knock on wood. s. - Original Message From: the Robot Vegetable [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: computer-go@computer-go.org Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2007 10:16:44 PM Subject: [computer-go] Question regarding archives and avoiding spam (fwd) Hi, Today I received the email below. I have not way of knowing if the any of the spam I get is from having an address visible through this list. Can people who post frequently address this? Do you experience new spam after posting here? I suspect that although it is possible that our addresses are being harvested here, other places (coughmyspacecough) are easier to harvest from and from my end more clearly correleated with spam. In general, I have thought that spammers are lazy and they miss out on many posibilities, things technically easy but a bit more work than normal. This is sheer conjecture. The list works well - I am hesitant to change anything. Anyone have an opinion? veg, computer-go admin -- Forwarded message -- Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2007 19:30:55 -0400 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Question regarding archives and avoiding spam Hi, I recently subscribed to the computer-go mailing list, and I'd really like to join some of the discussions, but I noticed that on the archives ( http://computer-go.org/pipermail/computer-go/) only simple email obfuscation is used. For example [EMAIL PROTECTED] would appear as johndoe at yahoo.com. I am afraid to post to the list, because this kind of obfuscation supposedly makes it even easier for spammers to find my email address online. You cannot search for the character @ on google, but if you search for * at *.com you get millions of results. And more specifically if you perform the following search: site:http://computer-go.org/pipermail/computer-go/ * at *.com then you get a lot of the email addresses of people who post to the computer go list. Also please see the following article on this subject: http://typewriting.org/2006/06/19/Email_Obfuscation_Helps_Spammers/ Is it possible to remove email addresses from future archives or find a better obfuscation scheme? Or is there some personal setting I can adjust that hides my email address? Best regards, ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/ Shape Yahoo! in your own image. Join our Network Research Panel today! http://surveylink.yahoo.com/gmrs/yahoo_panel_invite.asp?a=7 ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
Re: [computer-go] Question regarding archives and avoiding spam (fwd)
I get lots of spam in my yahoo inbox but gmail almost perfectly filters all the spam out of my inbox. On 6/17/07, terry mcintyre [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Spam is so prevalent that I've pretty well given up and assumed that one will get lots of it. Fortunately, yahoo is pretty good about filtering most of it. Certain addresses are never used on mailing lists. Beyond that, I just ignore the pesky stuff. Terry McIntyre [EMAIL PROTECTED] They mean to govern well; but they mean to govern. They promise to be kind masters; but they mean to be masters. -- Daniel Webster - Original Message From: steve uurtamo [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: computer-go computer-go@computer-go.org Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2007 7:41:55 PM Subject: Re: [computer-go] Question regarding archives and avoiding spam (fwd) i haven't found that i've received any additonal spam as a result of being a member of (or of posting to) this list. knock on wood. s. - Original Message From: the Robot Vegetable [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: computer-go@computer-go.org Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2007 10:16:44 PM Subject: [computer-go] Question regarding archives and avoiding spam (fwd) Hi, Today I received the email below. I have not way of knowing if the any of the spam I get is from having an address visible through this list. Can people who post frequently address this? Do you experience new spam after posting here? I suspect that although it is possible that our addresses are being harvested here, other places (coughmyspacecough) are easier to harvest from and from my end more clearly correleated with spam. In general, I have thought that spammers are lazy and they miss out on many posibilities, things technically easy but a bit more work than normal. This is sheer conjecture. The list works well - I am hesitant to change anything. Anyone have an opinion? veg, computer-go admin -- Forwarded message -- Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2007 19:30:55 -0400 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Question regarding archives and avoiding spam Hi, I recently subscribed to the computer-go mailing list, and I'd really like to join some of the discussions, but I noticed that on the archives ( http://computer-go.org/pipermail/computer-go/) only simple email obfuscation is used. For example [EMAIL PROTECTED] would appear as johndoe at yahoo.com. I am afraid to post to the list, because this kind of obfuscation supposedly makes it even easier for spammers to find my email address online. You cannot search for the character @ on google, but if you search for * at *.com you get millions of results. And more specifically if you perform the following search: site:http://computer-go.org/pipermail/computer-go/ * at *.com then you get a lot of the email addresses of people who post to the computer go list. Also please see the following article on this subject: http://typewriting.org/2006/06/19/Email_Obfuscation_Helps_Spammers/ Is it possible to remove email addresses from future archives or find a better obfuscation scheme? Or is there some personal setting I can adjust that hides my email address? Best regards, ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/ Shape Yahoo! in your own image. Join our Network Research Panel today! http://surveylink.yahoo.com/gmrs/yahoo_panel_invite.asp?a=7 ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/ Get the Yahoo! toolbar and be alerted to new email wherever you're surfing. ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/ ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
Re: [computer-go] Congratulations to GNU and to MoGoBot19!
I think Remi was making the point that the CrazyStone games were played at a time control not usually played in serious games. Therefore he concludes the rating was inflated. ... If you spend too much time building up a won position, how can you claim a moral victory if you lose on time? I thought the point being made was that the games were played without byo-yomi. The humans lost on time because they simply couldn't play all the tedious post-endgame moves. To get a fair result you have to use byo-yomi, once main time is all used up, even if just a couple of seconds per move. Darren ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
Re: [computer-go] Question regarding archives and avoiding spam (fwd)
I recently subscribed to the computer-go mailing list, and I'd really like to join some of the discussions, but I noticed that on the archives ( http://computer-go.org/pipermail/computer-go/) only simple email obfuscation is used. For example [EMAIL PROTECTED] would appear as johndoe at yahoo.com. I am afraid to post to the list, because this kind of obfuscation supposedly makes it even easier for spammers to find my email address online. You cannot search for the character @ on google, but if you search for * at *.com you get millions of results. And more specifically if you perform the following search: site:http://computer-go.org/pipermail/computer-go/ * at *.com then you get a lot of the email addresses of people who post to the computer go list. Also please see the following article on this subject: http://typewriting.org/2006/06/19/Email_Obfuscation_Helps_Spammers/ Like many of the respondents, I use gmail and it nicely filters spam, but (1) not everyone uses an email service with such good filtering and (2) no filter is perfect, so the more the spam you get, the more some of it will show up in your inbox, and the more time you must spend looking at the filtered spam to verify there is no real email accidentally filtered out. The address obfuscation of this mailing list software is laughably lame. For lists like this, I feel compelled to create a separate email address, so that if it does get harvested by spammers and starts being a problem, I can abandon it in the worst case. So I agree with the author quoted above. (Besides the spamming issue, some people might have some other privacy concerns as well.) I don't like that this mailing list software makes the email addresses so publicly visible. I'd rather they not be shown. (Anyone who wants to publish their address in a mailing list can always explicitly do so in their messages.) cheers, russ ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
