Re: [Computer-go] What hardware to use to train the DNN

[Michael Sué]

As I understand it: for C/C++ VS Code is just an editor not a compiler 
or debugger.


But as VS 2015 can already work with LLDB and gdb it is only a question 
of time and free licensing of more .NET parts, I assume.


- Michael.

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Re: [Computer-go] What hardware to use to train the DNN

[David Fotland]

Thanks, this is really interesting.  I still need something that works on 
Windows, and I use Many Faces to visualize what's going on, so I'll stick with 
windows for development.  I might use this for debugging on linux though.

David

> -Original Message-
> From: Computer-go [mailto:computer-go-boun...@computer-go.org] On Behalf
> Of Detlef Schmicker
> Sent: Saturday, February 06, 2016 1:04 AM
> To: computer-go@computer-go.org
> Subject: Re: [Computer-go] What hardware to use to train the DNN
> 
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> Hi David,
> 
> I am not happy with my IDE on linux too. You might give Visual Studio on
> linux a try:
> 
> https://www.visualstudio.com/de-de/products/code-vs.aspx
> 
> It seems to be free...
> 
> Detlef
> 
> Am 05.02.2016 um 07:13 schrieb David Fotland:
> > I ll do training on Linux for performance, and because it is so much
> > easier to build than on Windows.  I need something I can ship to my
> > windows customers, that is light weight enough to play well without a
> > GPU.
> >
> >
> >
> > All of my testing and evaluation machines and tools are on Windows, so
> > I can t easily measure strength and progress on linux.  I m also not
> > eager to learn a new IDE.  I like Visual Studio.
> >
> >
> >
> > David
> >
> >
> >
> > From: Computer-go [mailto:computer-go-boun...@computer-go.org] On
> > Behalf Of Petri Pitkanen Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2016 9:12 PM
> > To: computer-go Subject: Re: [Computer-go] What hardware to use to
> > train the DNN
> >
> >
> >
> > Welll, David is making a product. Making a product is 'trooper'
> > solution unless you are making very specific product to a very narrow
> > target group, willing to pay thousands for single license
> >
> > Petri
> >
> >
> >
> > 2016-02-04 23:50 GMT+02:00 uurtamo . :
> >
> > David,
> >
> >
> >
> > You're a trooper for doing this in windows. :)
> >
> >
> >
> > The OS overhead is generally lighter if you use unix; even the most
> > modern windows versions have a few layers of slowdown. Unix (for
> > better or worse) will give you closer, easier access to the hardware,
> > and closer, easier access to halting your machine if you are deep in
> > the guts. ;)
> >
> >
> >
> > s.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 10:25 AM, David Fotland
> >  wrote:
> >
> > Detlef, Hiroshi, Hideki, and others,
> >
> > I have caffelib integrated with Many Faces so I can evaluate a DNN.
> > Thank you very much Detlef for sample code to set up the input layer.
> > Building caffe on windows is painful.  If anyone else is doing it and
> > gets stuck I might be able to help.
> >
> > What hardware are you using to train networks?  I don t have a
> > cuda-capable GPU yet, so I'm going to buy a new box.  I'd like some
> > advice.  Caffe is not well supported on Windows, so I plan to use a
> > Linux box for training, but continue to use Windows for testing and
> > development.  For competitions I could use either windows or linux.
> >
> > Thanks in advance,
> >
> > David
> >
> >> -Original Message- From: Computer-go
> >> [mailto:computer-go-boun...@computer-go.org] On Behalf Of Hiroshi
> >> Yamashita Sent: Monday, February 01, 2016 11:26 PM To:
> >> computer-go@computer-go.org Subject: *SPAM* Re:
> >> [Computer-go] DCNN can solve semeai?
> >>
> >> Hi Detlef,
> >>
> >> My study heavily depends on your information. Especially Oakfoam
> >> code, lenet.prototxt and generate_sample_data_leveldb.py was helpful.
> >> Thanks!
> >>
> >>> Quite interesting that you do not reach the prediction rate 57% from
> >>> the facebook paper by far too! I have the same experience with the
> >>
> >> I'm trying 12 layers 256 filters, but it is around 49.8%. I think 57%
> >> is maybe from KGS games.
> >>
> >>> Did you strip the games before 1800AD, as mentioned in the FB paper?
> >>> I did not do it and was thinking my training is not ok, but as you
> >>> have the same result probably this is the only difference?!
> >>
> >> I also did not use before 1800AD. And don't use hadicap games.
> >> Training positions are 15693570 from 76000 games. Test
> >> positions are   445693 from  2156 games. All games are shuffled
> >> in advance. Each position is randomly rotated. And memorizing
> >> 24000 positions, then shuffle and store to LebelDB. At first I did
> >> not shuffle games. Then accuracy is down each 61000 iteration (one
> >> epoch, 256 mini-batch). http://www.yss-aya.com/20160108.png
> >> It means DCNN understands easily the difference 1800AD games and
> >> 2015AD games. I was surprised DCNN's ability. And maybe 1800AD games
> >> are also not good for training?
> >>
> >> Regards, Hiroshi Yamashita
> >>
> >> - Original Message - From: "Detlef Schmicker"
> >>  To:  Sent: Tuesday,
> >> February 02, 2016 3:15 PM Subject: Re: [Computer-go] DCNN can solve
> >> semeai?
> >>
> >>> Thanks a lot for sharing this.
> >>>
> >>> Quite 

Re: [Computer-go] What hardware to use to train the DNN

[David Fotland]

I'm not using it.  Many Faces is written in c, (gui in C++ with MFC).  I ported 
caffe to windows and I'm calling caffelib directly from mfgo.  I'm not training 
a net yet, so I haven’t decided what to do.  Most likely I will create the 
input database using c++ code in many faces, and train using caffe.

David

> -Original Message-
> From: Computer-go [mailto:computer-go-boun...@computer-go.org] On Behalf
> Of Richard Lorentz
> Sent: Saturday, February 06, 2016 6:39 AM
> To: computer-go@computer-go.org
> Subject: Re: [Computer-go] What hardware to use to train the DNN
> 
> Thought I'd ask you this off line. Are you using Code:Blocks and finding
> it's crashing a lot recently? (That's my experience.)
> 
> -Richard
> 
> 
> On 02/06/2016 01:04 AM, Detlef Schmicker wrote:
> > I am not happy with my IDE on linux too.
> 
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[Computer-go] Match Date: March 09 - 15

[Ingo Althöfer]

Hello,

on the Alpha-Go website a date for the match between
Lee Sedol and Alpha-Go is given:
5 rounds, to be played in Seoul on

* Wednesday, March 09
* Thursday, March 10

* Saturday, March 12
* Sunday, March 13

* Tuesday, March 15

It seems that March 11 and 14 are rest days.

http://deepmind.com/alpha-go.html

Ingo.
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Re: [Computer-go] What hardware to use to train the DNN

[Detlef Schmicker]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Hi David,

I am not happy with my IDE on linux too. You might give Visual Studio
on linux a try:

https://www.visualstudio.com/de-de/products/code-vs.aspx

It seems to be free...

Detlef

Am 05.02.2016 um 07:13 schrieb David Fotland:
> I’ll do training on Linux for performance, and because it is so
> much easier to build than on Windows.  I need something I can ship
> to my windows customers, that is light weight enough to play well
> without a GPU.
> 
> 
> 
> All of my testing and evaluation machines and tools are on Windows,
> so I can’t easily measure strength and progress on linux.  I’m also
> not eager to learn a new IDE.  I like Visual Studio.
> 
> 
> 
> David
> 
> 
> 
> From: Computer-go [mailto:computer-go-boun...@computer-go.org] On
> Behalf Of Petri Pitkanen Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2016 9:12 PM 
> To: computer-go Subject: Re: [Computer-go] What hardware to use to
> train the DNN
> 
> 
> 
> Welll, David is making a product. Making a product is 'trooper'
> solution unless you are making very specific product to a very
> narrow target group, willing to pay thousands for single license
> 
> Petri
> 
> 
> 
> 2016-02-04 23:50 GMT+02:00 uurtamo . :
> 
> David,
> 
> 
> 
> You're a trooper for doing this in windows. :)
> 
> 
> 
> The OS overhead is generally lighter if you use unix; even the most
> modern windows versions have a few layers of slowdown. Unix (for
> better or worse) will give you closer, easier access to the
> hardware, and closer, easier access to halting your machine if you
> are deep in the guts. ;)
> 
> 
> 
> s.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 10:25 AM, David Fotland
>  wrote:
> 
> Detlef, Hiroshi, Hideki, and others,
> 
> I have caffelib integrated with Many Faces so I can evaluate a DNN.
> Thank you very much Detlef for sample code to set up the input
> layer.  Building caffe on windows is painful.  If anyone else is
> doing it and gets stuck I might be able to help.
> 
> What hardware are you using to train networks?  I don’t have a
> cuda-capable GPU yet, so I'm going to buy a new box.  I'd like some
> advice.  Caffe is not well supported on Windows, so I plan to use a
> Linux box for training, but continue to use Windows for testing and
> development.  For competitions I could use either windows or
> linux.
> 
> Thanks in advance,
> 
> David
> 
>> -Original Message- From: Computer-go
>> [mailto:computer-go-boun...@computer-go.org] On Behalf Of Hiroshi
>> Yamashita Sent: Monday, February 01, 2016 11:26 PM To:
>> computer-go@computer-go.org Subject: *SPAM* Re:
>> [Computer-go] DCNN can solve semeai?
>> 
>> Hi Detlef,
>> 
>> My study heavily depends on your information. Especially Oakfoam
>> code, lenet.prototxt and generate_sample_data_leveldb.py was
>> helpful. Thanks!
>> 
>>> Quite interesting that you do not reach the prediction rate 57%
>>> from the facebook paper by far too! I have the same experience
>>> with the
>> 
>> I'm trying 12 layers 256 filters, but it is around 49.8%. I think
>> 57% is maybe from KGS games.
>> 
>>> Did you strip the games before 1800AD, as mentioned in the FB
>>> paper? I did not do it and was thinking my training is not ok,
>>> but as you have the same result probably this is the only
>>> difference?!
>> 
>> I also did not use before 1800AD. And don't use hadicap games. 
>> Training positions are 15693570 from 76000 games. Test
>> positions are   445693 from  2156 games. All games are shuffled
>> in advance. Each position is randomly rotated. And memorizing
>> 24000 positions, then shuffle and store to LebelDB. At first I
>> did not shuffle games. Then accuracy is down each 61000 iteration
>> (one epoch, 256 mini-batch). http://www.yss-aya.com/20160108.png 
>> It means DCNN understands easily the difference 1800AD games and
>> 2015AD games. I was surprised DCNN's ability. And maybe 1800AD
>> games  are also not good for training?
>> 
>> Regards, Hiroshi Yamashita
>> 
>> - Original Message - From: "Detlef Schmicker"
>>  To:  Sent: Tuesday,
>> February 02, 2016 3:15 PM Subject: Re: [Computer-go] DCNN can
>> solve semeai?
>> 
>>> Thanks a lot for sharing this.
>>> 
>>> Quite interesting that you do not reach the prediction rate 57%
>>> from the facebook paper by far too! I have the same experience
>>> with the GoGoD database. My numbers are nearly the same as
>>> yours 49% :) my net is quite simelar, but I use 7,5,5,3,3,
>>> with 12 layers in total.
>>> 
>>> Did you strip the games before 1800AD, as mentioned in the FB
>>> paper? I did not do it and was thinking my training is not ok,
>>> but as you have the same result probably this is the only
>>> difference?!
>>> 
>>> Best regards,
>>> 
>>> Detlef
>> 
>> ___ Computer-go
>> mailing list Computer-go@computer-go.org 
>> http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
> 
> 

Re: [Computer-go] Match Date: March 09 - 15

[Petri Pitkanen]

Still no time limits. I would assume that very short time limits help
computer, not very sure though


2016-02-06 14:40 GMT+02:00 "Ingo Althöfer" <3-hirn-ver...@gmx.de>:

> Hello,
>
> on the Alpha-Go website a date for the match between
> Lee Sedol and Alpha-Go is given:
> 5 rounds, to be played in Seoul on
>
> * Wednesday, March 09
> * Thursday, March 10
>
> * Saturday, March 12
> * Sunday, March 13
>
> * Tuesday, March 15
>
> It seems that March 11 and 14 are rest days.
>
> http://deepmind.com/alpha-go.html
>
> Ingo.
> ___
> Computer-go mailing list
> Computer-go@computer-go.org
> http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
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Re: [Computer-go] What hardware to use to train the DNN

[Richard Lorentz]

Thought I'd ask you this off line. Are you using Code:Blocks and finding 
it's crashing a lot recently? (That's my experience.)


-Richard


On 02/06/2016 01:04 AM, Detlef Schmicker wrote:

I am not happy with my IDE on linux too.


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