Re: [Computer-go] Lee Sedol's reviews on AlphaGo games

[Oliver Lewis]

Pictures of the charts are available here:
https://www.reddit.com/r/baduk/comments/4cgitz/alphagos_confidence_chart_for_the_5_games_david/
?

They're hard to read in detail but they still give a good impression of how
the evaluation developed during the games.

On Wed, Apr 20, 2016 at 11:26 AM, "Ingo Althöfer" <3-hirn-ver...@gmx.de>
wrote:

> Hi Aja,
>
> thanks for the reply.
>
> > David Silver did show AlphaGo's value graph of game 1 in his talk in UCL.
>
> Was that the talk on March 24?
> A pity, that I missed it...
>
> > AlphaGo's value at move 102 was higher than 60%. I'm not allowed to
> share the graph now
> > but I hope I have answered your question.
>
> Each single bit of information is appreciated :-)
>
> Ingo.
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Re: [Computer-go] Beginner question : how to choose a board representation

[Oliver Lewis]

There's a discussion of some of the issues in Petr Baudis' PhD thesis:
http://pachi.or.cz/



On Sun, Apr 10, 2016 at 9:19 AM, Jean-Francois Romang 
wrote:

> Hello to everyone ; I'm a newcomer in this list and computer go
> programming. I have a chess programming background, but I want to start
> something new. :-)
> I'm currently in the early phases of developing GTP compatible go engine ;
> now it's time for me to choose a board representation : are there some
> articles or tips on this ?
> Thanks,
> Jean-Francois
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Re: [Computer-go] Go Bot for the Browser?

[Oliver Lewis]

Alternatively, there's a minimalist Python MCTS engine (
https://github.com/pasky/michi) that might be easier to translate. It has
no UI though, so that would need to be added.

On Thu, Mar 17, 2016 at 9:47 AM, Gian-Carlo Pascutto  wrote:

> On 16-03-16 22:17, Clark B. Wierda wrote:
>
> > I'm not familiar with emscripten, but there is a process that will
> > produce Javascript from Golang code that seems to be pretty robust.
>
> emscripten is extremely robust and will produce much faster (and hence
> stronger) results than a golang->JS transpile.
>
> The problem they ran into is that GnuGo tries to build and run several
> helper executables in order to construct itself, which won't work if
> you're compiling to JS. So you'll need to fix up the build process to
> differentiate between the "build" and "host" properly. Or maybe GnuGo
> already does that and it's just a matter of passing the right options.
>
> --
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Re: [Computer-go] Go Bot for the Browser?

[Oliver Lewis]

If you look back through the archive on this list, you'll also see there
was an initial attempt, described here:
http://computer-go.org/pipermail/computer-go/2015-October/008067.html

code is here: https://github.com/PragTob/web-go



On Thu, Mar 17, 2016 at 4:46 PM, Oliver Lewis <ojfle...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

> Alternatively, there's a minimalist Python MCTS engine (
> https://github.com/pasky/michi) that might be easier to translate. It has
> no UI though, so that would need to be added.
>
> On Thu, Mar 17, 2016 at 9:47 AM, Gian-Carlo Pascutto <g...@sjeng.org>
> wrote:
>
>> On 16-03-16 22:17, Clark B. Wierda wrote:
>>
>> > I'm not familiar with emscripten, but there is a process that will
>> > produce Javascript from Golang code that seems to be pretty robust.
>>
>> emscripten is extremely robust and will produce much faster (and hence
>> stronger) results than a golang->JS transpile.
>>
>> The problem they ran into is that GnuGo tries to build and run several
>> helper executables in order to construct itself, which won't work if
>> you're compiling to JS. So you'll need to fix up the build process to
>> differentiate between the "build" and "host" properly. Or maybe GnuGo
>> already does that and it's just a matter of passing the right options.
>>
>> --
>> GCP
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Re: [Computer-go] Mastering the Game of Go with Deep Neural Networks and Tree Search

[Oliver Lewis]

Is the paper still available for download? The direct link appears to be
broken.

Thanks

Oliver


On Wed, Feb 3, 2016 at 2:06 AM, Igor Polyakov 
wrote:

> I think it would be an awesome commercial product for strong Go players.
> Maybe even if the AI shows the continuations and the score estimates
> between different lines, it will give the player enough reasoning to
> understand why one move is better than the other.
>
>
> On 2016-02-02 8:29, Jim O'Flaherty wrote:
>
> And to meta this awesome short story...
>
> AI Software Engineers: Robert, please stop asking our AI for explanations.
> We don't want to distract it with limited human understanding. And we don't
> want the Herculean task of coding up that extremely frail and error prone
> bridge.
> On Feb 1, 2016 3:03 PM, "Rainer Rosenthal"  wrote:
>
>> ~~
>> Robert: "Hey, AI, you should provide explanations!"
>> AI: "Why?"
>> ~~
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Rainer
>>
>>> Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2016 08:15:12 -0600
>>> From: "Jim O'Flaherty" 
>>> To: computer-go@computer-go.org
>>> Subject: Re: [Computer-go] Mastering the Game of Go with Deep Neural
>>> Networks and Tree Search
>>> Message-ID:
>>> <
>>> cakx5gkjc7j0uq_pmxyumyfre7r+7ydltigbna5oo7kvnzq7...@mail.gmail.com>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>>
>>> Robert,
>>>
>>> I'm not seeing the ROI in attempting to map human idiosyncratic
>>> linguistic
>>> systems to/into a Go engine.
>>>
>>
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Re: [Computer-go] Go in virtual reality

[Oliver Lewis]

It sounds like you are trying to develop a (fancy) client rather than a
bot, so you won't need knowledge of life and death, TT rules etc... I think
working through the GTP protocol and making sure you can handle all the
commands will give you the best checklist.  Here is the draft:
http://www.lysator.liu.se/~gunnar/gtp/gtp2-spec-draft2/gtp2-spec.html

Looking at it, I'd say some of things you should add are handling komi and
handicap (fixed or free), showing time settings and remaining time.  You
might also want to consider whether you're going to show chat (though I
don't think that comes over GTP).

Oliver


On Tue, Sep 8, 2015 at 12:43 AM, Gonçalo Mendes Ferreira 
wrote:

> First implement a small bot that plays legal moves including detecting
> superkos.
>
> Then read Bensons definition of unconditional life, the Tromp-Taylor rules
> and the GTP standard draft.
>
>
> On 09/07/2015 10:00 PM, Sébastien 'Cb' Kuntz wrote:
>
>> Hi list,
>> I'm working on a small immersive VR Go application (Oculus, HTC Vive etc)
>>
>> My goals are:
>> - play remotely against somebody else in VR
>> - play remotely against somebody on IGS
>> (- try to get better at Go)
>>
>> Since I'm only a beginner in Go,
>> I'm looking for the minimal set of functions that I need to implement in
>> order
>> to be able to play full games.
>>
>> Currently implemented:
>> - 19x19 board
>> - Place a black or white stone anywhere
>> - Can't play if not your turn
>> - Can't play if move is not legal (suicide or ko)
>> - Captured stones disappear from board
>> - Captured stones count
>> - Score estimation
>> - IGS: login, challenge a user, play move, receive move
>>
>> Planned:
>> - Pass
>> - Resign
>> - Undo
>> - Save to SGF
>> - Handicap
>>
>> Maybe:
>> - 9x9
>> - 13x13
>>
>> I am most probably missing some functions to complete the minimal set,
>> so any comment is greatly appreciated :)
>> Have a great day!
>> cb
>>
>
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Re: [Computer-go] Teaching Deep Convolutional Neural Networks to Play Go

[Oliver Lewis]

Can you say anything about whether you think their approach to unsupervised
learning could be applied to networks similar to those you trained? Any
practical or theoretical constraints we should be aware of?

On Monday, 16 March 2015, Aja Huang ajahu...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hello Oliver,

 2015-03-16 11:58 GMT+00:00 Oliver Lewis ojfle...@yahoo.co.uk
 javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','ojfle...@yahoo.co.uk');:

 It's impressive that the same network learned to play seven games with
 just a win/lose signal.  It's also interesting that both these teams are in
 different parts of Google. I assume they are aware of each other's work,
 but maybe Aja can confirm.


 The authors are my colleagues at Google DeepMind as on the paper they
 list DeepMind as their affiliation. Yes we are aware of each other's
 work.

 Aja


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Re: [computer-go] Really basic question

[Oliver Lewis]

Although the number of games explored is very limited relative to the total
number of possible games, those games are in some sense representative of
what happens if you start with a particular move.  That's why they can help
to create a ranking that tells you something about which moves are better
than others.  The move to heavy playouts is about making the sample games
even more representative so that they yield more useful information.

Others on this list have reported in the past that the randomness is
actually very important.  Playouts that are very heavy, no matter how
clever they are, actually reduce the performance because they narrow the
number of games too much.

You should also read up on the all moves as first (AMAF) technique.  This
is even more surprising because it attributes the outcome of a random game
to every move of that colour during the random game, as if that was the move
that had been played first.  This generates information to help rank the
moves even more quickly.

Oliver


On Tue, Jul 7, 2009 at 2:15 AM, Fred Hapgood hapg...@pobox.com wrote:

 I have a really basic question about how MC works in the context of Go.

 Suppose the problem is to make the first move in a game, and suppose we
 have accepted as a constraint that we will abstain from just copying
 some joseki out of a book -- we are going to use MC to figure out the
 first move de novo. We turn on the software and it begins to play out
 games. My question is: how does the software pick its first move?  Does
 it move entirely at random? Sometimes it sounds that way MC works is by
 picking each move at random, from the first to the last, for a million
 games or so. The trouble is that the number of possible Go games is so
 large that a million games would not even begin to explore the
 possibilities.  It is hard to imagine anything useful emerging from
 examining such a small number. So I'm guessing that the moves are not
 chosen at random.  But even if you reduce the possibilities to two
 options per move, which would be pretty impressive, you'd still run out
 of your million games in only twenty moves, after which you would be
 back to picking at random again.

 What am I missing??




 http://www.BostonScienceAndEngineeringLectures.com
 http://www.pobox.com/~fhapgood http://www.pobox.com/%7Efhapgood

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Re: [computer-go] cgos server news

[Oliver Lewis]

Thanks Don, for CGOS to date and for the planned expansion. Please keep up
posted how much you raise.

On 7/31/08, Don Dailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Ok, some news.   I'm going to put a donate button on the CGOS website.
 We are going to use any donations to help Dave Dyer upgrade his server
 (and keep it upgraded) to give us the space we need.   Many people have
 generously agreed to donate various amounts and this is very much
 appreciated, it should be enough to keep us going for a couple of years
 or more if everyone follows through.

 We will add a 19x19 CGOS on boardspace and keep it running.   We thank
 Olivier Teytaud for his time and trouble spent hosting a 19x19 server
 temporarily for us and I'm sure he will be happy to no longer have to
 deal with it.   Thank you Olivier!

 I believe I fixed the very annoying web page update problem but we will
 have to wait and see to know for sure.  And in the future we may add
 more features to CGOS, I feel a little bit more motivated now that I
 won't be having to fight against the space constraints so much.

 - Don


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Re: [computer-go] Engine development for beginners

[Oliver Lewis]

Orego version 3 in Java (before the C++ rewrite and the optimisation for
Monte Carlo / UCT) was really simple to understand and add new players to.
Perhaps Peter Drake can reinstate the link from his site - otherwise I can
email you a copy.




On 7/28/07, Jeff Nowakowski [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 On Fri, 2007-07-27 at 18:03 -0700, Joshua Shriver wrote:
  Are there any really simple engines out there that know just enough to
  play a legal game of Go? Preferably C, Perl or Java?

 Have a look at GoGui and the included gtpdummy engine, which plays a
 random game.  It's Java based.  If you write your engine to understand
 GTP, you can then plug it seamlessly in to GoGui.  Using GTP also means
 your engine will be usable on CGOS and KGS and playable against other
 GTP engines.

 http://gogui.sourceforge.net/
 http://gogui.sourceforge.net/doc/reference-gtpdummy.html

 -Jeff

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Re: [computer-go] Allocating remaining time

[Oliver Lewis]

It seems important to have some way of measuring how good / settled the
current best move is, particularly if you're also going to think in your
opponent's time.  Otherwise, you could end up spending significant amounts
of allocated time when, for example, a sequence of forced moves is being
played out and little thinking time is actually required.  I'm not sure of
the technical details, but I would have thought that UCT would provide a
good estimate of how confident it is that it has found the best move that
it's ever going to find.

Oliver



On 1/6/07, Eduardo Sabbatella Riccardi [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:


Hello,

I was thinking about this a few days ago and I decided I will try the
following:

When the engine is searching for best moves there is a game path of 3, 4
or
up to 10 moves that the engine have found to be the best moves so far.

0) Before start the search, based on total available time, and current
move,
engine will decide Tmin time and Tmax time based on some static function.
1) Engine will run for Tmin ms.
2) if game path have not changed in the last n ms, search is finished.
(n = Tmax-Tmin / c )
3) if game path changed, it will extend the search for n ms.
4) if total time exceeds Tmax ms. Search is finished.

I think its usefull to avoid local maximums that can be hard to avoid,
perhaps next move is easier to get a better move, so it worths to spend
more time on next move as its value/time ratio is better.

My 2 cents.
Eduardo

PS: Definitely I will spend more time on first moves as they decide the
rest
of the game.

On Thursday 04 January 2007 06:04, Peter Drake wrote:
 How much time should a program spend on each move?

 If my program has t milliseconds left to use in a game, and there are
 an estimated m moves left on the board (e.g., this many vacant
 spaces), one reasonable choice is t / m.

 In practice, this seems to spend too much time on early moves, which
 (under UCT/MC) is largely wasted time. Would it be better to use
 something like t / m**k, for some constant k? (Looking at graphs of
 such functions, k = 1.5 seems reasonable.)

 It would also be interesting to look at the graphs of how much time
 humans spend on each move; is it usually less for the opening moves
 than for middle / endgame moves? Is there a smooth curve, or is there
 a relatively abrupt shift from joseki to analysis?

 Peter Drake
 Assistant Professor of Computer Science
 Lewis  Clark College
 http://www.lclark.edu/~drake/


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Re: Time Zones (was Re: [computer-go] KGS Slow tournament)

[Oliver Lewis]

correct.  We have British Summer Time (GMT+1) from Spring to Autumn (Fall),
so the Mac widget probably adjusts for that.

On 1/1/07, Peter Drake [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


An interesting report.

I have a question about a line near the end where you address the two
meanings of UCT:

UCT as applied to times stands for Universal Coordinate Time. It is
the same, for most practical purposes including ours, as GMT,
Greenwich Mean Time, the time zone based on London, England.

I had an experience where I set a Mac OS X Dashboard Widget clock
to London time, and it was an hour off from UCT. I could only get the
correct time by using Dakar as the city. Does London use something
like Daylight Savings Time, making London time the same as GMT/UCT
only part of the year?

Peter Drake
Assistant Professor of Computer Science
Lewis  Clark College
http://www.lclark.edu/~drake/


On Dec 23, 2006, at 10:58 AM, Nick Wedd wrote:

 I have written up the week's Slow KGS bot tournament. My report,
 which is fuller than usual, is at
 http://www.weddslist.com/kgs/past/s1/index.html

 I think that, despite various accidents, the event was a success. I
 plan to hold another one, but only after the next release of the
 KGS server fixes the five minute rule bug.

 Congratulations to the winner, MoGoBot19!

 Nick
 --
 Nick Wedd[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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