Re: [Computer-go] [ANN] Imago - Go board optical recognition
Hi everybody! Two days ago we released PhotoKifu v3.00, that heavily relies on OpenCV instead of the nice, but slow, ImageMagick suite. We are now able to process each picture in about a tenth of a second, pre-processing included. Everything may be found at http://www.oipaz.net/PhotoKifu.html, including a new demo video, this time featuring the Guo Juan vs. Crazy Manja game, played this summer in Liberec during the Second International Go Game Science Conference. This was an important game from many points of view, as not only a professional player (Guo Juan) was involved, but a test was performed on the advantages of human-computer cooperation, with full success (the human-computer team performed beyond expectations for human alone). This demo video is available at http://www.oipaz.net/REP/GuoJuan-CrazyManja.mp4. All the pictures from the game are at http://www.oipaz.net/REP/GuoJuan-CrazyManja.zip. We'll probably release one more version of Photokifu, then we'll start working on VideoKifu, a (very) preliminary version of which we hopefully will be able to demonstrate next summer, during EGC2016, although at the moment it's not certain that a scientific conference will be held in Saint-Petersburg too. -- Dr Mario Corsolini ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@computer-go.org http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
Re: [Computer-go] [ANN] Imago - Go board optical recognition
... and again... - Pisa's organizers agreed on letting us take pictures (or movies, we'll decide later) of some games. One of the players will also contribute (he wants to take the pictures himself); others will probably join later on. Pisa was a success. At least, it was on the software side; not so much on the hardware's. The first game, my colleague took pictures with his camera, and everything went allright - the reconstruction was completed in a matter of few minutes. The second game, I also took pictures with my camera, but one of the players kept bumping the table and even my tripod, creating so many errors it required about twenty minutes to complete the reconstruction - we'll discard this game. The third game, we recorded a video with an Ipad mounted on a tripod: everything went right and we'll proceed with the reconstruction as soon as we'll have enough frames extracted. The fourth game, we tried a new program, PhotoClock, capable of taking a picture each time one of the players pressed the keyboard (it worked as a clock): that proved uneffective, as the players' arms were present in each picture (the contrary of what we hoped), and we'll have to try again with a pair of mouses instead. In the whole, we're very satisfied. The paper will be ready at the end of the week, but without a LaTeX template or at least the number of chars per page we won't be able to redact it. We hope the problem will be solved soon! mr. Andrea Carta ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@computer-go.org http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
Re: [Computer-go] [ANN] Imago - Go board optical recognition
Petr Baudis pasky at ucw.cz writes: I think a presentation of paper describing your system would find a very interested audience. If the system goes through sufficient prior testing, I think deploying it on EGC2015 would be truly awesome and I would be glad to support it. Hi again! I'm glad to let everyone know that: - version 2.1 of PhotoKifu was released last week; we're now working on version 2.5. - Pisa's organizers agreed on letting us take pictures (or movies, we'll decide later) of some games. One of the players will also contribute (he wants to take the pictures himself); others will probably join later on. - in the next days we'll make a movie of PhotoKifu analyzing a game we recorded two years ago at the David tournament, and will post it on YouTube; - the paper is on its way, and hopefully will be ready at the end of March. mr. Andrea Carta ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@computer-go.org http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
Re: [Computer-go] [ANN] Imago - Go board optical recognition
Hi Josef, and everybody! I am Mario Corsolini, the other author of PhotoKifu. I am aware our program was a little hidden in the Internet, mainly because until few weeks ago only an Italian version existed. Now you can download the international (EN/IT) version from my website: http://www.oipaz.net/PhotoKifu.html Within few days v2.10 will be available, featuring an improved recognition routine (as previously stated by Andrea), as well as various bugfixes. After the tests in Pisa we will be able to provide more details, re its reliability. For the moment I just want to point out that PhotoKifu still requires a human operator: pictures must be shot during the game, then transferred into a computer and analysed by our program. In order to achieve a higher level of automatism we must complete VideoKifu, which at present is in a very early stage of development. I suppose in ECG2015 we will have a working prototype for a demonstration, at best: an official release will most likely be ready before ECG2016. Best regards, Dr Mario Corsolini ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@computer-go.org http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
Re: [Computer-go] [ANN] Imago - Go board optical recognition
Hello Andrea, I happen to be organizing the technical section of EGC2015, and we would certainly be really glad to use automatic transcription and internet broadcasting, as this would make it possible to broadcast more boards with less manpower (hopefully more precisely, it is common that one human transcribes two boards and there are mistakes e.g. in ko fights). We were actually considering this option ourselves, but I concluded that there does not exist a production-ready solution yet. I have missed photokifu as well in my research (and to be honest, it is hard to find your app even if I know its name, mostly because there seems to be an iApp called the same). However, were we to use automatic transcription, we would need to make sure it works reliably. Best regards, Josef Dne so 17. 1. 2015 21:38 uživatel Andrea Carta andrea.ca...@mclink.it napsal: Marc Landgraf mahrgell87 at gmail.com writes: Out of curiosity...In the picture you linked ( http://i59.tinypic.com/10cnu5c.jpg ), how does your program read the position in the top left, considering the illegal stone there? Or does it not have any Go rules knowledge and leaves the interpretation to the user? In that case it may create .sgf with illegal moves in it. Considering during a regular game, you will actually snapshot illegal positions a few times (when you take a picture between placing the stone and removing the captures) I'm really wondering how your program handles it. Of course it is advisable to take every picture after the removal of the stones possibly captured; the program expects such stones to be removed from the goban. Otherwise, two cases are possible. First one, the player forgot to remove the stone (or did not make in time): in such a case the program detects the error and asks the user what to do next. Second, a suicide move was played (willingly or not). In such a case the program checks the rules and, if suicide is not allowed, again asks the user what to do next (otherwise it gets on). But as this particular problem does not concern the main algorithm, we have not made a final decision. There are other options on the table (for example automatic error correction/stone addition). mr. Andrea Carta ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@computer-go.org http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@computer-go.org http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
Re: [Computer-go] [ANN] Imago - Go board optical recognition
Here's a demonstration of some work I did for University. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dX6s-3Xm7xU It's done with OpenCV and I'll be happy to share the code with whoever is interested. 2015-01-18 13:18 GMT+00:00 Mario Corsolini oi...@oipaz.net: Hi Josef, and everybody! I am Mario Corsolini, the other author of PhotoKifu. I am aware our program was a little hidden in the Internet, mainly because until few weeks ago only an Italian version existed. Now you can download the international (EN/IT) version from my website: http://www.oipaz.net/PhotoKifu.html Within few days v2.10 will be available, featuring an improved recognition routine (as previously stated by Andrea), as well as various bugfixes. After the tests in Pisa we will be able to provide more details, re its reliability. For the moment I just want to point out that PhotoKifu still requires a human operator: pictures must be shot during the game, then transferred into a computer and analysed by our program. In order to achieve a higher level of automatism we must complete VideoKifu, which at present is in a very early stage of development. I suppose in ECG2015 we will have a working prototype for a demonstration, at best: an official release will most likely be ready before ECG2016. Best regards, Dr Mario Corsolini ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@computer-go.org http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go -- Alexandre Nuno Milheiro de Oliveira ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@computer-go.org http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
Re: [Computer-go] [ANN] Imago - Go board optical recognition
Hi mr. Baudis! we must have missed PhotoKifu when surveying the available software. We're getting used to that. In Italy Go is completely unknown and everything related goes unnoticed. Months ago I showed the program to a colleague of mine, who shares many of my hobbies, and he asked What is this? Chinese checkers?. There will be a scientific conference at EGC 2015 as well: http://pasky.or.cz/iggsc2015/ I think a presentation of paper describing your system would find a very interested audience. That's a fantastic new! After getting no reply from Sibiu last year we were afraid a second conference would never occur. We'll complete the paper soon and will attend the conference. We're already checking the accomodations in Liberec! we aimed to first test the software on series of events - in (well lit) Go clubs and on a larger tournament - starting the testing around now to have enough time to test it sufficiently and notice things like sun suddenly coming out of clouds, bumping the table, Go server streaming issues etc. We did an extensive test in December 2012, at the Firenze Go tournament (http://www.eurogotv.com/tournament/showresults.php?toernooicode=T121208B). We realised our program (then version 1.0) only worked fine under good conditions - well lit environment, high point of view, limited number of disturbances in the pictures. We encountered dim lights (gobans' surfaces looked almost grey in the morning, completely grey in the afternoon), average points of view (40°-50° of elevation), and up to 60-70 pictures per game spoiled by fingers, hands, arms (sometimes of both players in the same picture, for example: http://i59.tinypic.com/10cnu5c.jpg). It took us a long time, but eventually we solved all these problems. We are now capable of analyzing without errors, taking just a bunch of milliseconds, even this kind of pictures: http://i61.tinypic.com/ak9zdv.jpg (this is probably the worst kind, speaking of sun suddendly coming out of the clouds) We also wanted to start talking around now to wms (KGS author) about a possibility of extending kgsGTP computer program interface of KGS to demonstration games. I would recommend you to reserve enough time to working out these things too. Firenze's go players did ask us for such a thing (live feed on KGS). We're certainly going to work that out as soon as VideoKifu will be ready. I think a good time to start discussing this with them [EGC's organizers] would be after a first successful real-world tournament test (even on a small scale like single board). Of course we'll let you know about the Pisa testing. We're now contacting the organizers and will likely be able to take pictures of 3 or 4 games, and print the Kifus immediately afterwards (in a matter of minutes, we hope). Greetings and thanks for your interest! mr. Andrea Carta ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@computer-go.org http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
Re: [Computer-go] [ANN] Imago - Go board optical recognition
Out of curiosity... In the picture you linked ( http://i59.tinypic.com/10cnu5c.jpg ), how does your program read the position in the top left, considering the illegal stone there? Or does it not have any Go rules knowledge and leaves the interpretation to the user? In that case it may create .sgf with illegal moves in it. Considering during a regular game, you will actually snapshot illegal positions a few times (when you take a picture between placing the stone and removing the captures) I'm really wondering how your program handles it. 2015-01-17 14:18 GMT+01:00 Andrea Carta andrea.ca...@mclink.it: Hi mr. Baudis! we must have missed PhotoKifu when surveying the available software. We're getting used to that. In Italy Go is completely unknown and everything related goes unnoticed. Months ago I showed the program to a colleague of mine, who shares many of my hobbies, and he asked What is this? Chinese checkers?. There will be a scientific conference at EGC 2015 as well: http://pasky.or.cz/iggsc2015/ I think a presentation of paper describing your system would find a very interested audience. That's a fantastic new! After getting no reply from Sibiu last year we were afraid a second conference would never occur. We'll complete the paper soon and will attend the conference. We're already checking the accomodations in Liberec! we aimed to first test the software on series of events - in (well lit) Go clubs and on a larger tournament - starting the testing around now to have enough time to test it sufficiently and notice things like sun suddenly coming out of clouds, bumping the table, Go server streaming issues etc. We did an extensive test in December 2012, at the Firenze Go tournament (http://www.eurogotv.com/tournament/showresults.php?toernooicode=T121208B ). We realised our program (then version 1.0) only worked fine under good conditions - well lit environment, high point of view, limited number of disturbances in the pictures. We encountered dim lights (gobans' surfaces looked almost grey in the morning, completely grey in the afternoon), average points of view (40°-50° of elevation), and up to 60-70 pictures per game spoiled by fingers, hands, arms (sometimes of both players in the same picture, for example: http://i59.tinypic.com/10cnu5c.jpg). It took us a long time, but eventually we solved all these problems. We are now capable of analyzing without errors, taking just a bunch of milliseconds, even this kind of pictures: http://i61.tinypic.com/ak9zdv.jpg (this is probably the worst kind, speaking of sun suddendly coming out of the clouds) We also wanted to start talking around now to wms (KGS author) about a possibility of extending kgsGTP computer program interface of KGS to demonstration games. I would recommend you to reserve enough time to working out these things too. Firenze's go players did ask us for such a thing (live feed on KGS). We're certainly going to work that out as soon as VideoKifu will be ready. I think a good time to start discussing this with them [EGC's organizers] would be after a first successful real-world tournament test (even on a small scale like single board). Of course we'll let you know about the Pisa testing. We're now contacting the organizers and will likely be able to take pictures of 3 or 4 games, and print the Kifus immediately afterwards (in a matter of minutes, we hope). Greetings and thanks for your interest! mr. Andrea Carta ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@computer-go.org http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@computer-go.org http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
Re: [Computer-go] [ANN] Imago - Go board optical recognition
Marc Landgraf mahrgell87 at gmail.com writes: Out of curiosity...In the picture you linked ( http://i59.tinypic.com/10cnu5c.jpg ), how does your program read the position in the top left, considering the illegal stone there? Or does it not have any Go rules knowledge and leaves the interpretation to the user? In that case it may create .sgf with illegal moves in it. Considering during a regular game, you will actually snapshot illegal positions a few times (when you take a picture between placing the stone and removing the captures) I'm really wondering how your program handles it. Of course it is advisable to take every picture after the removal of the stones possibly captured; the program expects such stones to be removed from the goban. Otherwise, two cases are possible. First one, the player forgot to remove the stone (or did not make in time): in such a case the program detects the error and asks the user what to do next. Second, a suicide move was played (willingly or not). In such a case the program checks the rules and, if suicide is not allowed, again asks the user what to do next (otherwise it gets on). But as this particular problem does not concern the main algorithm, we have not made a final decision. There are other options on the table (for example automatic error correction/stone addition). mr. Andrea Carta ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@computer-go.org http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
Re: [Computer-go] [ANN] Imago - Go board optical recognition
Hi! On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 01:55:35AM +, Andrea Carta wrote: Tomas Musil (a student of mine), has created a state-of-the-art open source Go board optical recognition software. We have focused on completely automatic runs, so it automatically detects the board corners and then the stones on the board, and the precision seems pretty good at least in reasonable lighting conditions. Hello mr. Baudis! Musil's work is remarkable indeed. I and my fellow colleague, prof. Mario Corsolini, studied the thesis and found it of the greatest interest, both on the theoretical side and the practical one. I'm very happy to hear that! BTW, Musil seems to believe that we have not found any other work that we can meaningfully compare our results with; but since november 2012 we have developed and distributed PhotoKifu, a program aimed to reconstruct whole Go games by means of a series of photograph. Sorry about this - we must have missed PhotoKifu when surveying the available software. My personal dream would be if we added video capability and further improved speed + reliability in time for EGC2015 (in Czech Republic) and were able to deploy it there to transfer large number of top boards. But this will depend on how much time Tomas will have after the summer (and we didn't actually check with EGC2015 organizers yet), so it's still more of just a dream. Of course, we too are interested in EGC 2015. We hoped to attend the scientific conference at EGC 2013, but could not find reliable informations. There will be a scientific conference at EGC 2015 as well: http://pasky.or.cz/iggsc2015/ I think a presentation of paper describing your system would find a very interested audience. Maybe Musil will now be able to contact EGC 2015's organizers and catch their interest: Unfortunately, this is not likely to happen - Tomas Musil has other commitments now and didn't have enough time to make Imago production ready in time for such a deployment (i.e. speed much up, error rate much down, video processing, ...). So if it's just up to our software, automatic streaming of boards using Imago on EGC2015 will not happen. (Tomas also started a project that's more interesting for him, a Haskell rewrite of Imago: https://github.com/tomasmcz/imago-hs, if anyone is interested.) it would be a remarkable feat if we could both go and talk about (and, of course, demonstrate) two programs making use of different approaches. For the moment we're planning to do such a thing during the big international Pisa tournament at the beginning of March, but the EGC 2015 would be the ideal stage. That would be great, I think! When planning the deployment, we aimed to first test the software on series of events - in (well lit) Go clubs and on a larger tournament - starting the testing around now to have enough time to test it sufficiently and notice things like sun suddenly coming out of clouds, bumping the table, Go server streaming issues etc. We also wanted to start talking around now to wms (KGS author) about a possibility of extending kgsGTP computer program interface of KGS to demonstration games. I would recommend you to reserve enough time to working out these things too. If the system goes through sufficient prior testing, I think deploying it on EGC2015 would be truly awesome and I would be glad to support it. I cannot promise any significant time commitment to software development or even on-site support, but I can talk to the organizers and consult on technical issues. I think a good time to start discussing this with them would be after a first successful real-world tournament test (even on a small scale like single board). Kind regards and good luck, -- Petr Baudis If you do not work on an important problem, it's unlikely you'll do important work. -- R. Hamming http://www.cs.virginia.edu/~robins/YouAndYourResearch.html ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@computer-go.org http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
