Re: [Computer-go] AlphaGo Zero

[mic]

There are several AlphaGo instances playing against each other on Tygem 
at this moment.

-Michael.

On 21.10.2017 14:21, David Ongaro wrote:

Am 10/21/2017 um 03:12 AM schrieb uurtamo .:


This sounds like a nice idea that is a misguided project.

[...]
Just accept that something awesome happened and that studying those 
things that make it work well are more interesting than translating 
coefficients into a bad understanding for people.


I'm sorry that this NN can't teach anyone how to be a better player 
through anything other than kicking their ass, but it wasn't built for 
that.


Roberts approach might be misguided, but I don't agree that having the 
raw network data couldn't teach us something. E.g. have a look at this 
guy who was able to identify the neurons responsible for generating URLs 
in a wikipedia text generating RNN: 
http://karpathy.github.io/2015/05/21/rnn-effectiveness/#visualizing-the-predictions-and-the-neuron-firings-in-the-rnn.


E.g. it might be possible to find the network Part of AlphaGo Zero which 
is responsible for L problems and use it to dream up new Problems! The 
possibilities could be endless. This kind of research might have been 
easier with the "classic" AlphaGo with separated policy and value 
networks, but should be possible anyways.


Also lets not forget DeepMinds own substantial research in this area: 
https://deepmind.com/blog/cognitive-psychology/.


I understand that DeepMind might be unable to release the source code of 
AlphaGo due to policy or licensing reasons, but it would be great (and 
probably much more valuable) if they could release the fully trained 
network. As Gian-Carlo Pascutto has pointed out, replicating this would 
not only incur high hardware costs but also take a long time.


David O.


On Fri, Oct 20, 2017 at 8:24 AM, Robert Jasiek > wrote:


On 20.10.2017 15:07, adrian.b.rob...@gmail.com
 wrote:

1) Where is the semantic translation of the neural net to
human theory
knowledge?

As far as (1), if we could do it, it would mean we could
relate the
structures embedded in the net's weight patterns to some other
domain --


The other domain can be "human go theory". It has various forms,
from informal via textbook to mathematically proven. Sure, it is
also incomplete but it can cope with additions.

The neural net's weights and whatnot are given. This raw data can
be deciphered in principle. By humans, algorithms or a combination.

You do not know where to start? Why, that is easy: test! Modify
ONE weight and study its effect on ONE aspect of human go theory,
such as the occurrance (frequency) of independent life. No effect?
Increase the modification, test a different weight, test a subset
of adjacent weights etc. It has been possible to study semantics
of parts of DNA, e.g., from differences related to illnesses.
Modifications on the weights is like creating causes for illnesses
(or improved health).

There is no "we cannot do it", but maybe there is too much
required effort for it to be financially worthwhile for the "too
specialised" case of Go? As I say, a mathematical proof of a
complete solution of Go will occur before AI playing perfectly;)

So far neural
nets have been trained and applied within single domains, and any
"generalization" means within that domain.


Yes.

-- 
robert jasiek


___
Computer-go mailing list
Computer-go@computer-go.org 
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go





___
Computer-go mailing list
Computer-go@computer-go.org
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go




___
Computer-go mailing list
Computer-go@computer-go.org
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go



---
Diese E-Mail wurde von Avast Antivirus-Software auf Viren geprüft.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

___
Computer-go mailing list
Computer-go@computer-go.org
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go

Re: [Computer-go] Announcement in Leela

[mic]

LeelaZero seems to have got a boost in strength. It just happened to 
beat a 5d player on DGS: https://www.dragongoserver.net/game.php?gid=1214911


Beginning of this year it still lost against fuego bot by a big margin.

Let's hope it's not just luck.

-Michael.

---
Diese E-Mail wurde von Avast Antivirus-Software auf Viren geprüft.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

___
Computer-go mailing list
Computer-go@computer-go.org
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go

Re: [Computer-go] Announcement in Leela

[mic]

Well, on my machine it runs without GPU. The pro being at least 7d+, so 
without GPU is should be at least 5d+ at the moment.


It's current rank on DGS is 1k, though, starting from 6k in January. The 
difference is probably due to not getting enough games and still losing 
one or the other handicap game.



On 28.04.2018 06:04, Sorin Gherman wrote:
> Of course it defeated amateur 5d on DGS, LeelaZero has already
> reached/surpassed top human pro strength, see recent news:
>
> 
https://www.reddit.com/r/baduk/comments/8ezgms/leela_zero_20_blocks_4x_v100_tesla_gpu_just/
> 
https://www.reddit.com/r/cbaduk/comments/8e7d21/andy_liu_1p_aga_vs_leela_zero_2_stones_handicap/

>
>

---
Diese E-Mail wurde von Avast Antivirus-Software auf Viren geprüft.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

___
Computer-go mailing list
Computer-go@computer-go.org
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go

Re: [Computer-go] Project Leela Zero

[mic]

I would like to have a non-GPU version of the WINDOWS-program of LeelaZ 
to be able to run it on my good old machine.

-Michael.

---
Diese E-Mail wurde von Avast Antivirus-Software auf Viren geprüft.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

___
Computer-go mailing list
Computer-go@computer-go.org
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go

Re: [Computer-go] Project Leela Zero

[mic]

Thank you very much.

It will play on DGS as LeelaZero19 (without GPU support). I will start 
this night with an unrated test game against FuegoBot, one minute 
thinking time each. Then I will give it a rank, so it can get stronger 
by the time.


Leela 0.11.0 (on DGS as LeelaBot19) has meanwhile reached a weak 4 dan 
rank, also without GPU support.


-Michael.

---
Diese E-Mail wurde von Avast Antivirus-Software auf Viren geprüft.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

___
Computer-go mailing list
Computer-go@computer-go.org
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go