Re: [CGUYS] FYI: Safari on the Windows Platform

2008-06-03 Thread mike
Again more misdirection from the apple zealot propaganda department.  It had
nothing to do with updating quicktime/itunes, it was that the updater
previously only used to update already installed apps was installing a
completely new one under the guise of being an update.

Mike


On Tue, Jun 3, 2008 at 3:03 PM, Tom Piwowar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Gosh look how apoplectic the Windows fan bois got when Apple
> starting running a software update application for just their own
> iTunes/QuickTime software.


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Re: [CGUYS] FYI: Safari on the Windows Platform

2008-06-03 Thread mike
Tom, it's a SAFARI flaw...how about just taking care of their own stuff?

Mike

On Tue, Jun 3, 2008 at 3:03 PM, Tom Piwowar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> >So to sum up.  Safari has a flaw, that enables a second flaw in explorer
> to
> >be exploited.  MS is going to patch explorer, Apple has zero plans to
> patch
> >even though when MS patches, the safari bug will still have security
> effects
> >on the system.  And you think MS is less professional then Apple is used
> to
> >working with?
>
> Should Apple start issuing patches for Windows? I know that in the past
> some small security companies have stepped in when MS could not figure
> out what to patch, but for Apple to start doing this would be a major
> step. Gosh look how apoplectic the Windows fan bois got when Apple
> starting running a software update application for just their own
> iTunes/QuickTime software. I think Apple is right to stand back and tell
> MS to fix its crappy OS. Why should every app developer have to code
> around an OS problem that only needs to be fixed once by the owner of the
> OS?
>
>
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Re: [CGUYS] FYI: Safari on the Windows Platform

2008-06-03 Thread Tom Piwowar
>So to sum up.  Safari has a flaw, that enables a second flaw in explorer to
>be exploited.  MS is going to patch explorer, Apple has zero plans to patch
>even though when MS patches, the safari bug will still have security effects
>on the system.  And you think MS is less professional then Apple is used to
>working with?

Should Apple start issuing patches for Windows? I know that in the past 
some small security companies have stepped in when MS could not figure 
out what to patch, but for Apple to start doing this would be a major 
step. Gosh look how apoplectic the Windows fan bois got when Apple 
starting running a software update application for just their own 
iTunes/QuickTime software. I think Apple is right to stand back and tell 
MS to fix its crappy OS. Why should every app developer have to code 
around an OS problem that only needs to be fixed once by the owner of the 
OS?


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Re: [CGUYS] Problems for windows safari users could spread to m

2008-06-03 Thread Tom Piwowar
>And they still get blamed for it.  Personally, I'd rather have them
>"play the fear card" every single time than not.

All they really need to do is tell us to change the location of the 
downloads folder to be anything other than the desktop. Isn't that better 
than telling people to not run the software at all? Gosh, if MS followed 
that kind of advice in every case MS would be telling everyone to not use 
Windows.


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Re: [CGUYS] a list problem

2008-06-03 Thread Stephen Brownfield

Tom,
  I think you are right.  Once the list got back up, I saw that i 
was not the only one with problems over the weekend.


Steve


Tom Piwowar wrote:
I just received this email today (6/1/08).  It is the first email since 
1:30 am on 5/28/08.  How do I know if my mail is bouncing back and what 
do I need to do to keep on the list?



I think AOL was down over the weekend. The message I got said "I wasn't 
able to establish an SMTP connection" so that means AOL's inbound email 
server was down. It is now back up, so you need to do nothing on that 
score.


If you are getting bounces for other reasons you may have to follow up. 
First thing to do is to just send the message again. Larger ISPs have 
multiple SMTP servers. Sometimes one gets blacklisted, but when you send 
again you have a good chance of getting a different SMTP server.


If the bounce persists you need to talk to your ISP.

If you think your are not getting mail from the list the first thing to 
check is the archives. This list is archived on two systems (details at 
cguys.org). That will give you something definite to show your ISP.



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Re: [CGUYS] FYI: Safari on the Windows Platform

2008-06-03 Thread mike
They are naive and code badly because of it?  You keep spinning and yer
gonna get dizzy.   Apple also said they aren't going to fix the issue.
Professionalism?  Google apple microsoft zero day patch and you'll hit
articles showing apple is so professional they lag behind in issuing zero
day patches compared to MS.

So to sum up.  Safari has a flaw, that enables a second flaw in explorer to
be exploited.  MS is going to patch explorer, Apple has zero plans to patch
even though when MS patches, the safari bug will still have security effects
on the system.  And you think MS is less professional then Apple is used to
working with?

Mike

On Tue, Jun 3, 2008 at 9:41 AM, Tom Piwowar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Comments I've read from Windows programmers suggest that Apple's
> programmers may be a bit too naive about Windows. Despite hearing all the
> stories about Windows' foulness they still assume a higher level of
> quality and professionalism than Microsoft is able to deliver.
> Consequently problems like this fall through.
>
> Still, what is it about the Windows desktop that is particularly
> dangerous? Should I be concerned about keeping any files on the desktop?
>
> >The last paragraph is the critical one for Tom to notice.
> >*
> >According to Raff, unless Apple patches the bug, more attacks like the one
> >he found in IE are likely to pop up. "This is not the only issue that can
> be
> >combined with the Safari vulnerability," he said. "If Microsoft fixes
> this,
> >Safari users will still be vulnerable."
>
>
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Re: [CGUYS] Problems for windows safari users could spread to m

2008-06-03 Thread Snyder, Mark (IT Civ)
The Dick Cheneys and Microsofts of the world count on your reliable
response to the fear card.  Your ready reaction turns the fear card into
the Bingo! Card for them - every time.

Thank you,
 
Mark Snyder
-Original Message-
Not that I'm a MS defender in the least, nor am I am Mac lover, but...

MS is screwed either way.  If they don't publicize the problem, then
they'll be blamed because they knew about it and didn't do anything.
They chose - what I consider the decent thing to do - to let people know
about the problem.  

And they still get blamed for it.  Personally, I'd rather have them
"play the fear card" every single time than not.


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Re: [CGUYS] Problems for windows safari users could spread to m

2008-06-03 Thread Larry Sacks
Not that I'm a MS defender in the least, nor am I am Mac lover, but...

MS is screwed either way.  If they don't publicize the problem, then
they'll be blamed because they knew about it and didn't do anything.
They chose - what I consider the decent thing to do - to let people know
about the problem.  

And they still get blamed for it.  Personally, I'd rather have them
"play the fear card" every single time than not.

Larry

-Original Message-
From: Computer Guys Discussion List
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tom Piwowar
Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2008 10:19 AM
To: COMPUTERGUYS-L@LISTSERV.AOL.COM
Subject: Re: [CGUYS] Problems for windows safari users could spread to m

>Not that I think too many actually use Safari on windows, but a word to
the
>wise.  Some words for OS X users too.

I think the real reason for MS's fussing is that Safari is jumping ahead

of Explorer at such a rapid rate. Safari already has lots of CSS 3 
functionality working that is going to make web developers upset at
being 
stuck with a backward IE browser. So MS plays the fear card.



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Re: [CGUYS] Problems for windows safari users could spread to mac os

2008-06-03 Thread John DeCarlo
Anyone seen any technical discussion of this?

It sounds like the flaw allows a denial-of-service attack by having
thousands of files put on your desktop.

But I bet there are technical articles that indicate if there is a
significant problem security-wise.

I noticed that all the related stories on this site were negative depictions
of Apple.

On Sat, May 31, 2008 at 11:46 AM, mike <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Not that I think too many actually use Safari on windows, but a word to the
> wise.  Some words for OS X users too.
>
>
> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/05/31/microsoft_warns_against_apple_safari/
>
>


-- 
John DeCarlo, My Views Are My Own


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Re: [CGUYS] FYI: Safari on the Windows Platform

2008-06-03 Thread Tom Piwowar
Comments I've read from Windows programmers suggest that Apple's 
programmers may be a bit too naive about Windows. Despite hearing all the 
stories about Windows' foulness they still assume a higher level of 
quality and professionalism than Microsoft is able to deliver. 
Consequently problems like this fall through.

Still, what is it about the Windows desktop that is particularly 
dangerous? Should I be concerned about keeping any files on the desktop?

>The last paragraph is the critical one for Tom to notice.
>*
>According to Raff, unless Apple patches the bug, more attacks like the one
>he found in IE are likely to pop up. "This is not the only issue that can be
>combined with the Safari vulnerability," he said. "If Microsoft fixes this,
>Safari users will still be vulnerable."


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Re: [CGUYS] Problems for windows safari users could spread to m

2008-06-03 Thread Snyder, Mark (IT Civ)
Down to their last cards.

Thank you,
 
Mark Snyder
-Original Message-
 So MS plays the fear card.


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Re: [CGUYS] a list problem

2008-06-03 Thread Tom Piwowar
>I just received this email today (6/1/08).  It is the first email since 
>1:30 am on 5/28/08.  How do I know if my mail is bouncing back and what 
>do I need to do to keep on the list?

I think AOL was down over the weekend. The message I got said "I wasn't 
able to establish an SMTP connection" so that means AOL's inbound email 
server was down. It is now back up, so you need to do nothing on that 
score.

If you are getting bounces for other reasons you may have to follow up. 
First thing to do is to just send the message again. Larger ISPs have 
multiple SMTP servers. Sometimes one gets blacklisted, but when you send 
again you have a good chance of getting a different SMTP server.

If the bounce persists you need to talk to your ISP.

If you think your are not getting mail from the list the first thing to 
check is the archives. This list is archived on two systems (details at 
cguys.org). That will give you something definite to show your ISP.


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Re: [CGUYS] Problems for windows safari users could spread to m

2008-06-03 Thread Tom Piwowar
>Not that I think too many actually use Safari on windows, but a word to the
>wise.  Some words for OS X users too.

I think the real reason for MS's fussing is that Safari is jumping ahead 
of Explorer at such a rapid rate. Safari already has lots of CSS 3 
functionality working that is going to make web developers upset at being 
stuck with a backward IE browser. So MS plays the fear card.


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Re: [CGUYS] failure notice

2008-06-03 Thread Jeff Wright
Well, Netaxs is lying, either through ignorance or intentionally.  They are
indeed using a realtime blackhole list, www.uceprtotect.net, and blocking
mail from Verizon mail servers.  The UCEprotect methodology is here:
http://www.uceprotect.net/en/index.php?m=3&s=0

Level 1, which your Verizon servers are listed under, is here:
http://www.uceprotect.net/en/index.php?m=3&s=3

To be fair though, "they" aren't seeing it, but their mail servers are,
which query the RBL/SLS database.   But this is the problem with ISP
filtering:  they don't give you any mechanism for false positives, which
remain a problem with spam filtering.  No matter how good your system is,
you will always have FPs.

I've said it before: email is no longer a reliable form of communication.
It's broken; don't depend on it.

> -Original Message-
> Here is something interesting that has been happening with good ol'
> Netaxs, now a part of PAETEC.
> 
> Frequently I stop getting any kind of mail at this addie for, say 12
> hours. I get the techs on the phone and they express varying degress of
> astonishment. Yes, this has happened pretty often recently. How do I
> know
> I'm not only not getting mail, but also just plain losing it? I send
> tests
> from my VZ account.
> 
> Many of them never show up, others get returned with this fascinating
> message:
> 
> Your message cannot be delivered to the following recipients:
> 
>   Recipient address: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>   Reason: Remote SMTP server has rejected address
>   Diagnostic code: smtp;553 IP 206.46.173.1 is UCEPROTECT-Level 1
> listed.
>  See http://www.uceprotect.net/rblcheck.php?ipr=206.46.173.1
>   Remote system: dns;mail.netaxs.com
> (TCP|206.46.173.1|47535|207.8.186.26|25) (rblsmtpd.local)
> 
> Reporting-MTA: dns;vms173001.mailsrvcs.net (tcp-daemon)
> 
> 
> 
> Netaxs swears they have nothing to do with UCE et al. So how are they
> getting to see -and turn away!- my email?


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