Re: [CGUYS] drupal for only 10 million
You should actually listen to what we're talking about. Oh wait I forgot who I am talking to. On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 7:28 PM, TPiwowar t...@tjpa.com wrote: On Aug 20, 2009, at 1:50 PM, mike wrote: It wasn't just the degree that set Dvorak off, it was also Kundra's behavior during an appearance at I believe was in front of some senators. His basic point being the guy was full of BS web 2.0 doubletalk that makes no sense when actually analyzed. Web 2.0 is hardly doubletalk. Perhaps it is just a future that some geezers have trouble comprehending? * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] drupal for only 10 million
On Wed, Aug 19, 2009 at 6:19 PM, TPiwowar t...@tjpa.com wrote: On Aug 19, 2009, at 5:30 PM, John Duncan Yoyo wrote: Dvorak was more annoyed with the quality of the school he went to. U Md has a very good Computer Science program. It is the best in this area, which has lots of schools with CS departments. It was the degree coming through the University College portion of U Md that set Dvorak off along with taking 6 years to get a degree in psychology. As someone who took rather longer than the 5 years my program was scheduled to take I find no reason to judge on anything beyond the final product. Kundra has also demonstrated the ability to think independently and innovate. When someone can do that I'm not going to be looking at his degree. -- John Duncan Yoyo ---o) * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] drupal for only 10 million
TWIT podcast this week also discussed Dvorak's column and the complaints about it all the way to the white house. It wasn't just the degree that set Dvorak off, it was also Kundra's behavior during an appearance at I believe was in front of some senators. His basic point being the guy was full of BS web 2.0 doubletalk that makes no sense when actually analyzed. But then you listen to almost anyone in any administration they spend more time not saying anything the more they talk. On Wed, Aug 19, 2009 at 11:41 PM, John Duncan Yoyo johnduncany...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Aug 19, 2009 at 6:19 PM, TPiwowar t...@tjpa.com wrote: On Aug 19, 2009, at 5:30 PM, John Duncan Yoyo wrote: Dvorak was more annoyed with the quality of the school he went to. U Md has a very good Computer Science program. It is the best in this area, which has lots of schools with CS departments. It was the degree coming through the University College portion of U Md that set Dvorak off along with taking 6 years to get a degree in psychology. As someone who took rather longer than the 5 years my program was scheduled to take I find no reason to judge on anything beyond the final product. Kundra has also demonstrated the ability to think independently and innovate. When someone can do that I'm not going to be looking at his degree. -- John Duncan Yoyo ---o) * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] drupal for only 10 million
On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 1:50 PM, mike xha...@gmail.com wrote: TWIT podcast this week also discussed Dvorak's column and the complaints about it all the way to the white house. It wasn't just the degree that set Dvorak off, it was also Kundra's behavior during an appearance at I believe was in front of some senators. His basic point being the guy was full of BS web 2.0 doubletalk that makes no sense when actually analyzed. But then you listen to almost anyone in any administration they spend more time not saying anything the more they talk. You can hear a bunch of clips on the No Agenda podcast Dvorak does. He doesn't parse well. It does sound a bit like a techno version Palin word salad, -- John Duncan Yoyo ---o) * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] drupal for only 10 million
On Aug 20, 2009, at 1:50 PM, mike wrote: It wasn't just the degree that set Dvorak off, it was also Kundra's behavior during an appearance at I believe was in front of some senators. His basic point being the guy was full of BS web 2.0 doubletalk that makes no sense when actually analyzed. Web 2.0 is hardly doubletalk. Perhaps it is just a future that some geezers have trouble comprehending? * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] drupal for only 10 million
On Mon, Aug 17, 2009 at 9:29 PM, TPiwowar t...@tjpa.com wrote: On Aug 17, 2009, at 8:12 PM, John Duncan Yoyo wrote: John C. Dvorak was going off about this on the No Agenda podcast he does with Adam Curry. Curry is a little too tinfoil hat for my tastes but can be amusing in his paranoia. #121 is all about questioning the credentials of our nations CIOs. I was wondering how long it would be before someone executed a hatchet job on Kundra. He is a smart and independent thinker. The quality of what he did in DC is obvious to me just as a user of systems he put in place. He is not a M$ lapdog. He was driving DC to replace M$ Office with Google Docs. As I've noted before the quality of these new government websites has greatly impressed me. Clearly he is a dangerous person. Here is a fact check on the accusation that he did not have a Master's in IT, it was easy to confirm that he does... http://techinsider.nextgov.com/2009/08/on_kundras_college_records.php Dvorak was more annoyed with the quality of the school he went to. I personaly find that I would prefer someone not from the usual suspects institutions of the Ivy league- Heck even Penn would be be unusual enough. -- John Duncan Yoyo ---o) * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] drupal for only 10 million
On Aug 19, 2009, at 5:30 PM, John Duncan Yoyo wrote: Dvorak was more annoyed with the quality of the school he went to. U Md has a very good Computer Science program. It is the best in this area, which has lots of schools with CS departments. Kundra has also demonstrated the ability to think independently and innovate. When someone can do that I'm not going to be looking at his degree. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] drupal for only 10 million
On Wed, Aug 19, 2009 at 3:19 PM, TPiwowar t...@tjpa.com wrote: On Aug 19, 2009, at 5:30 PM, John Duncan Yoyo wrote: Dvorak was more annoyed with the quality of the school he went to. U Md has a very good Computer Science program. It is the best in this area, which has lots of schools with CS departments. Kundra has also demonstrated the ability to think independently and innovate. When someone can do that I'm not going to be looking at his degree. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
[CGUYS] drupal for only 10 million
Reports indicate that new multimillion dollar website is being done with drupal. Whoever sold this load of hogcrap to our government really made out on our dime. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] drupal for only 10 million
Reports indicate that new multimillion dollar website is being done with drupal. Whoever sold this load of hogcrap to our government really made out on our dime. What I read was that the contract wasn't just for the web site. Most of the money was for the infrastructure behind it (databases or whatever, I don't remember the details.) The site is just the visible part. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] drupal for only 10 million
Yeah open source...free. Half the work was already done for them. Not only was this company taking an existing website and merely rebuilding it, they are using pre built tools to do it. What are they doing exactly for ten million? Oh that's right, with the new transparency that info is redacted. On Mon, Aug 17, 2009 at 12:48 PM, TPiwowar t...@tjpa.com wrote: On Aug 17, 2009, at 1:24 PM, mike wrote: Reports indicate that new multimillion dollar website is being done with drupal. Whoever sold this load of hogcrap to our government really made out on our dime. Other than it not being from M$, what is your objection to drupal? It is a very good open-source CMS. I'm really happy to see the new government websites using high-quality open-source like drupal and jQuery. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] drupal for only 10 million
The hardware was supplied by the government from what I read...this was JUST for the coding etc. On Mon, Aug 17, 2009 at 11:32 AM, Chris Dunford seed...@gmail.com wrote: Reports indicate that new multimillion dollar website is being done with drupal. Whoever sold this load of hogcrap to our government really made out on our dime. What I read was that the contract wasn't just for the web site. Most of the money was for the infrastructure behind it (databases or whatever, I don't remember the details.) The site is just the visible part. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] drupal for only 10 million
On Aug 17, 2009, at 4:35 PM, mike wrote: Yeah open source...free. Half the work was already done for them. Not only was this company taking an existing website and merely rebuilding it, they are using pre built tools to do it. What are they doing exactly for ten million? Oh that's right, with the new transparency that info is redacted. So what is your beef with drupal? We are waiting... * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] drupal for only 10 million
It's not with drupal, it's the fact they are using prebuilt systems for their website...should be SAVING money...what this website would have cost 25 million otherwise? recovery.org only monitors recovery spending..another website called fedspending.org monitors ALL government spending and did it with a less then 400k initial grant. Lets see...private .org does more then the .gov and for millions less. No, I don't expect a left winger like you to have a problem with fat government..well unless it's under your favorite villians those magical neomicrosofticons. On Mon, Aug 17, 2009 at 2:40 PM, TPiwowar t...@tjpa.com wrote: On Aug 17, 2009, at 4:35 PM, mike wrote: Yeah open source...free. Half the work was already done for them. Not only was this company taking an existing website and merely rebuilding it, they are using pre built tools to do it. What are they doing exactly for ten million? Oh that's right, with the new transparency that info is redacted. So what is your beef with drupal? We are waiting... * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] drupal for only 10 million
The hardware was supplied by the government from what I read...this was JUST for the coding etc. I meant the software infrastructure, not the hardware infrastructure. My point was that it wasn't just for the web site; there's a lot of code behind it that you can't see. Just design and coding can be expensive if there's a lot of it. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] drupal for only 10 million
The software infrastructure was supplied by drupal...which was my point. On Mon, Aug 17, 2009 at 2:55 PM, Chris Dunford seed...@gmail.com wrote: The hardware was supplied by the government from what I read...this was JUST for the coding etc. I meant the software infrastructure, not the hardware infrastructure. My point was that it wasn't just for the web site; there's a lot of code behind it that you can't see. Just design and coding can be expensive if there's a lot of it. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] drupal for only 10 million
Correct me if I am wrong but drupal is just a software Content Management System tool ... a backend framework for developers to use in integrating systems such as databases, email, RSS, telephony, websites etc. You don't have anything until you create something with it which of course entails billable man hours. It can be used to lace everything together... if you already have the appropriate subcomponents. If you don't, you have to create them to. I know that with a much smaller analogous system Salesforce ... which is only a CRM (Customer Relationship Management) system, it costs $8000 worth of professional labor to configure Saleforce for use by a small local non-profit arts org so they can run their organization, (Manage events, volunteers, f_und raising, communications, website etc.)_ 10 million does sound like a lot and it wouldn't surprise me if gouging was involved but I do think there had to be some substantive development labor cost involved in using drupal.It's not an off the shelf ready to use end user product. It's a developer's tool. db mike wrote: The software infrastructure was supplied by drupal...which was my point. On Mon, Aug 17, 2009 at 2:55 PM, Chris Dunford seed...@gmail.com wrote: The hardware was supplied by the government from what I read...this was JUST for the coding etc. I meant the software infrastructure, not the hardware infrastructure. My point was that it wasn't just for the web site; there's a lot of code behind it that you can't see. Just design and coding can be expensive if there's a lot of it. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] drupal for only 10 million
The software infrastructure was supplied by drupal...which was my point. The software infrastructure for the web site. The web site wasn't the whole project. Unless I misunderstand what drupal provides, aren't you leaving out the whole rest of the project? We're all against government waste mismanagement. We pay taxes too. And it's certainly possible that the feds overpaid on this contract. BUT, it isn't accurate to say that drupal did most of the work for them, since the web site was not the whole project. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] drupal for only 10 million
On Mon, Aug 17, 2009 at 1:24 PM, mike xha...@gmail.com wrote: Reports indicate that new multimillion dollar website is being done with drupal. Whoever sold this load of hogcrap to our government really made out on our dime. John C. Dvorak was going off about this on the No Agenda podcast he does with Adam Curry. Curry is a little too tinfoil hat for my tastes but can be amusing in his paranoia. #121 is all about questioning the credentials of our nations CIOs. http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2009/08/12/special-report-is-us-chief-information-officer-cio-vivek-kundra-a-phony/ http://gigaom.com/2009/08/12/dvorak-raises-doubts-about-us-cio-vivek-kundra/ -- John Duncan Yoyo ---o) * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] drupal for only 10 million
On Aug 17, 2009, at 8:05 PM, Chris Dunford wrote: The software infrastructure for the web site. The web site wasn't the whole project. Unless I misunderstand what drupal provides, aren't you leaving out the whole rest of the project? Of course they are leaving out the majority of the project. To say that drupal is the whole project would be like saying that an applications framework is the whole of an application and that any software written with it is of little value. It misunderstands where the bulk of the development work is. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] drupal for only 10 million
On Aug 17, 2009, at 5:48 PM, mike wrote: It's not with drupal, it's the fact they are using prebuilt systems for their website...should be SAVING money...what this website would have cost 25 million otherwise? Precisely, using high-quality open-source frameworks like drupal is going to sage the government lots of money. A very smart move. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
