Re: [Cooker] 9.1 Beta 2
Buchan Milne [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Warly wrote: I mean that switching to 650 MB ISO removed 150MB of packages, and that 9.1 is likely to have nearly 200 packages less than 9.0. Is there any reason why the commercial apps *have* to go on the free space in the GPL CDs? Is there any reason why a 4th commercial-only CD is a bad idea? As far as I can see, having a 4th CD could have some advantages: 1)Users can buy just the 4th CD (at about half a standard pack?). If all the proprietary drivers are on the 4th CD, any time (winmodem, NVidia, Radeon 7xxx, speedtouch) a device is found that needs proprietary drivers, this DC could be advertised. 2)The first 3 CDs of GPL and Standard could be identical. Since it would be advantageous to have the hdlists for the commercial software (see (1)) on the 1st CD, and the 3rd CD would be identical, the only difference between Standard and GPL would be the 4th commercial CD. I think this would have some advantages in a number of ways, and don't see why commercial software should restrict the size of the other CDs, when instead it could be used to push up sales (even if only of the commercial software). Of course, if this were to happen, a nice button in MCC would be cool, something like 'Add 4th (commercial) CD software source'. I forward it to product marketting marketting. Some thoughs (I have no clear idea on the subject) At present standard is 3 CDs. - It is not acceptable that download edition has more packages than standard edition - Putting one more CD costs some cents or maybe some euros more per box (to press, print, package). With thousands of box sold, it can be significant amount of money. Is having one more CDs increase the standard edition sales, or the club membership in the equivalent proportion, I do not know. I can do whatever you want, 3, 4, even 6 CDs with all the contribs. It is quite easy to do, but does it will be widely tested, does packages on the 4th CDs will be tested and of good quality, or just to please 50 club members ? Moreover more CDs means more work for us, are we in a situation where we can afford maintaining even more packages ? Shouldn't we agree on making compromise and selecting some applications instead of including everything ? As an example shouldn't we agree on making xcdroast, or k3b, the mandrake default burner, and convince everybody to test it and make it good enough for everyone, instead of having 5 of them ? -- Warly
Re: [Cooker] 9.1 Beta 2
Warly wrote: I forward it to product marketting marketting. Thanks. Some thoughs (I have no clear idea on the subject) At present standard is 3 CDs. - It is not acceptable that download edition has more packages than standard edition Agreed, this addresses that, and also ensures that standard has *all* the packages that download does. No one can question that at all with this method even ... - Putting one more CD costs some cents or maybe some euros more per box (to press, print, package). With thousands of box sold, it can be significant amount of money. Is having one more CDs increase the standard edition sales, or the club membership in the equivalent proportion, I do not know. Why else do people buy standard as opposed to buying from cheapbytes? I can do whatever you want, 3, 4, even 6 CDs with all the contribs. It is quite easy to do, but does it will be widely tested, does packages on the 4th CDs will be tested and of good quality, or just to please 50 club members ? They were mostly on the CDs in 9.0 of course, and the debate was which packages to remove due to reduction in space ... Moreover more CDs means more work for us, are we in a situation where we can afford maintaining even more packages ? No more work than 9.0, but if a better distribution can be had with less work by removing redundant packages, do it. Shouldn't we agree on making compromise and selecting some applications instead of including everything ? As an example shouldn't we agree on making xcdroast, or k3b, the mandrake default burner, and convince everybody to test it and make it good enough for everyone, instead of having 5 of them ? Yes. I hate xcdroast (mainly due to gtk file selection suckiness), k3b should be ok. But then, k3b and xcdroast must be worked on actively (in the time it would take to maintain arson etc). IMHO there should never be a need for more than 1 kind of app per gui toolkit, if so it means that the best one needs more development. Buchan -- |--Another happy Mandrake Club member--| Buchan MilneMechanical Engineer, Network Manager Cellphone * Work+27 82 472 2231 * +27 21 8828820x121 Stellenbosch Automotive Engineering http://www.cae.co.za GPG Key http://ranger.dnsalias.com/bgmilne.asc 1024D/60D204A7 2919 E232 5610 A038 87B1 72D6 AC92 BA50 60D2 04A7
Re: [Cooker] 9.1 Beta 2
On Thu, 2003-01-23 at 12:08, Warly wrote: Shouldn't we agree on making compromise and selecting some applications instead of including everything ? As an example shouldn't we agree on making xcdroast, or k3b, the mandrake default burner, and convince everybody to test it and make it good enough for everyone, instead of having 5 of them ? Well said!!! I think we should use a voting system (like the RPM package voting in the MandrakeClub) which narrows down the top apps like e-mail, browser, news reader, text editor, etc. Having a default application and maybe one alternative (second runner up) would help reduce confusion for newbies and make the distro more manageable size wise. The third and fourth tier softwares could then be available from a Mandrake Updateable wesbite (kinda like the PLF and Texstar's stuff) using RPMDRAKE. This would be awesome! Great idea Warly! R.Fox -- Robert Fox [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fox Consulting Services
Re: [Cooker] 9.1 Beta 2
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Thursday 23 January 2003 04:08 am, Warly wrote: Shouldn't we agree on making compromise and selecting some applications instead of including everything ? As an example shouldn't we agree on making xcdroast, or k3b, the mandrake default burner, and convince everybody to test it and make it good enough for everyone, instead of having 5 of them ? Yes this is exactly corect. - -- -~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~- Brook Humphrey Mobile PC Medic, 420 1st, Cheney, WA 99004, 509-235-9107 http://www.webmedic.net, [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] Holiness unto the Lord -~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~- -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE+L+nanT1TkA6FgPgRAlfKAKCPKCye4npzgdM69GgxzFojGEclFQCfR/Od fh3hKXeiFrPkfsnLDX5HRlk= =7xP7 -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: [Cooker] 9.1 Beta 2
Le jeu 23/01/2003 à 14:23, Robert Fox a écrit : On Thu, 2003-01-23 at 12:08, Warly wrote: Shouldn't we agree on making compromise and selecting some applications instead of including everything ? As an example shouldn't we agree on making xcdroast, or k3b, the mandrake default burner, and convince everybody to test it and make it good enough for everyone, instead of having 5 of them ? Well said!!! I think we should use a voting system (like the RPM package voting in the MandrakeClub) which narrows down the top apps like e-mail, browser, news reader, text editor, etc. Having a default application and maybe one alternative (second runner up) would help reduce confusion for newbies and make the distro more manageable size wise. The third and fourth tier softwares could then be available from a Mandrake Updateable wesbite (kinda like the PLF and Texstar's stuff) using RPMDRAKE. This would be awesome! Great idea Warly! I think i agree for almost what i said, but i would remind you some stuff : as a scientist, i use specific applications whch are not very useful in day-to-day usage (xmgrace, pybliographic, xdrawchem), so they will not collect enough votes. But these are mandatory for me and some others ... I think these applications should stay in the downloadable isos. For day-to-day applications, i think it could be a great idea to have two applications for each task (may be one for kde, the other for gnome). Other applications could be available via Mandrake Club if desired. It could be a good way to enrich the club's lack of attract (except for charity reasons) : here is a good way to improve the Club's attracting value. Stef *~~* Linux 2.4.19-16mdk #1 Fri Sep 20 18:15:05 CEST 2002 1:00pm up 13 days, 52 min, 3 users, load average: 1.00, 1.02, 1.02 signature.asc Description: PGP signature
[Cooker] 9.1 beta 2 test report
Hi all, these are my experiences with ML 9.1 beta 2 (installed alongside with 9.0 sharing the /boot partition), I hope they can be of help. If you think I should add some bugzilla entry, please CC: me in an eventual reply because I'm not subscribed to cooker list at the moment. Test system: Athlon 1.2 GHz 512 MB RAM LG CD-RW Panansonic DVD-RW 1 40 MB HD (Windows partitions) 1 60 MB HD (Linux partitions) ATI Radeon video card Sound Blaster 128 PCI sound card Note: I could not install it on my Acer 521TE laptop because of an old incompatibility of current kernels with the ALI 52xx chipset. ### 9.1 beta 2 INSTALLATION ### Estethically unpleasant: - light brown highlighing on white/blue text (white text, blue background) - button highlighting - mouse pointer becomes an ugly watch when the installer is busy - in some installation windows the lower buttons are cut by the lower edge of the window - anti-aliased texts in the add images during package installation look somewhat blurred - change CD window just a little too small to host the whole text, first line of text is cut In the test window, the mouse wheel only works as a button, no sign of it working while moving it (works after installation). The mouse pointer can't get out of the installation windows, I suppose this is intentional at the moment. The first CD is required again, and not recognized, during system configuration (I kept inserting it, and the installer kept ejecting it and asking again for it). At last I had to Cancel use of the first CD. The correct time zone wasn't listed in the summary window (empty button). I had to select it manually. Then the installer went to install my printer: it recognized it all right (HP LaserJet 6L), but crashed immediately afterward (panic: swash_fetch). Installer didn't try to set up the network. After I checked my graphical configuration, when I went back to the summary window it reported the graphical interface as not configured. Clicking again on the button showed the right settings however. It still is impossible to add or modify items to the bootloader menu, the window gets messed if you try to do so and furthermore it is impossible to enter or modify text to specify the root partition. + The installer recognized all my linux partitions on the hdb disk, assigning them the correct mount point (I suppose it read my 9.0 fstab). 9.1 beta 2 TRIAL First time I tried log in, kdm just didn't let me do it: I typed login name and password of my 9.1 user and nothing happened (well, the screen wavered a little). The second time I tried I got directly into KDE, no first time wizard. I hope the default background picture (and the alternative ones) will be improved in number and quality. Much as I hate to say it, M$ Windows XP nature-based backgrounds are very effective: beautiful and relaxing without being distracting. The Icon + Text description in Drakconf windows looks somewhat weird: the white text box aside of the icons is graphically awkward, perhaps the usual Icon + (short) Icon name + Tooltip on an uniform background would make more esthetically appealing. Mousedrake freezes while loading (and the waiting picture colors are completely wrong). BTW, the semi-transparent cursor is nice, but not all users might appreciate it, so there should be the possibility to switch back to a solid one. Many other config programs just freeze when launched, I suppose the transition to GTK2 is not done yet; printerdrake pops up again in a separate window after I click on done. The 8.2 RPM installer wizard had a nice graphical interface, it went away in 9.0 and is not here either in 9.1beta, could it be reintroduced for 9.1 final? Anyway, the first installation CD is not recognized anymore by urpmi/rpmdrake, just as happened during installation. After experimenting with MCC, it froze: clicking on the icons on the left gave no results. Xine exits immediately after launch on my box: all available video drivers failed. Works fine under 9.0. XMMS, Volume control and other multimedia apps work fine. All in all, 9.1 looks very promising. Keep up the hard work! Ciao -- Roberto Rosselli Del Turco e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Dipartimento di Scienze [EMAIL PROTECTED] del Linguaggio Then spoke the thunder DA Universita' di Torino Datta: what have we given? (TSE) Hige sceal the heardra, heorte the cenre, mod sceal the mare, the ure maegen litlath. (Maldon 312-3)
Re: [Cooker] 9.1 Beta 2
On 23 Jan 2003 13:23:29 + Robert Fox [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, 2003-01-23 at 12:08, Warly wrote: Shouldn't we agree on making compromise and selecting some applications instead of including everything ? As an example shouldn't we agree on making xcdroast, or k3b, the mandrake default burner, and convince everybody to test it and make it good enough for everyone, instead of having 5 of them ? Well said!!! I think we should use a voting system (like the RPM package voting in the MandrakeClub) which narrows down the top apps like e-mail, browser, news reader, text editor, etc. I'm not convinced as the gain would be marginal. The big fat stuff are the underlying libs, not the frontends. I've made several different rpmsrate to suit different boxes and there's a certain limit on how low you can go and that's around 1Gig with a single desktop and 1.5 Gig with two desktops. KDE is the hog. Why's there a povray app in it? But then, I guess, no one at mdk wants to split those KDE packages. On the problem of default apps consider this: KDE users often use GTK apps too, but GNOME users almost exclusively use GNOME/GTK apps. Having a default application and maybe one alternative (second runner up) would help reduce confusion for newbies and make the distro more manageable size wise. But the default should be per desktop, not per distro. I've tried several times to make true single desktop machines. Killing KDE is pretty simple, but not so when you want a desktop without GNOME. Example: plug a camera to 9.0 and what comes up? Right, it's gtkam. I had to change that manually to digikam. The third and fourth tier softwares could then be available from a Mandrake Updateable wesbite (kinda like the PLF and Texstar's stuff) using RPMDRAKE. well, I guess that's alright. Though I'd still prefer having it all on a DVD. Regarding voting, I think it should go the other way round, ie try to spot apps that seem unused and put them to the vote for removal. If less than soso percent of users vote for keeping them, remove them. That way that unhappy mc discussion would never have started in the first place. Or make votes that sort apps, ie put all burners to the vote and keep the first 3. My guess is that you will very often be surprised what app actually takes the third place and how small the difference to the second is. - Mark
Re: [Cooker] 9.1 Beta 2
On Thursday 23 January 2003 13:32, Buchan Milne wrote: Warly wrote: Shouldn't we agree on making compromise and selecting some applications instead of including everything ? As an example shouldn't we agree on making xcdroast, or k3b, the mandrake default burner, and convince everybody to test it and make it good enough for everyone, instead of having 5 of them ? Yes. I hate xcdroast (mainly due to gtk file selection suckiness), k3b should be ok. But then, k3b and xcdroast must be worked on actively (in the time it would take to maintain arson etc). IMHO there should never be a need for more than 1 kind of app per gui toolkit, if so it means that the best one needs more development. Buchan Hmm if it would be so easy. I don't have seen arson right now. But k3b can only make vcd's with cvs right now and I don't know about music-cd's. For xcdroast: The last time I tried it was back in Mdk 7.0 I guess and since k3b 0.7.5 I would not bother if it is not there anymore. And further I would say k3b 0.8 should be out till next month I guess. So what can arson do what k3b can't do ? (yes I'm a k3b addict ;) ) And as we have a third kde-burner (cdbakeoven) (and forth = koncd ;) ) I guess there should be made a decission. (Rather that than dropping important packages as mc) -- Regards Steffen counter.li.org : #296567. machine: 181800 vdr-box : 87 Please dont CC me, since if I have replied I'll watch the tread. Both mails will be filtered to the ML-folder. Thanks
Re: [Cooker] 9.1 Beta 2
On Thu, 23 Jan 2003, Steffen Barszus wrote: k3b 0.8 should be out till next month I guess. So what can arson do what k3b can't do ? (yes I'm a k3b addict ;) ) IIRC : Burning bin/cue files. -Danny
Re: [Cooker] 9.1 Beta 2
On Thu, 2003-01-23 at 12:32, Buchan Milne wrote: Yes. I hate xcdroast (mainly due to gtk file selection suckiness), k3b should be ok. But then, k3b and xcdroast must be worked on actively (in the time it would take to maintain arson etc). Except then GNOME guys like me don't want to use k3b. It's this kind of difference that's the reason Mandrake has so many CD burners in the first place, of course. I can see it can be an inconvenience to developers, but I also think in a way it's one of Mandrake's selling points; there's few other commercial distros with such a massive variety of packaged programs. I don't think it's a good idea to start a thin end of the wedge policy of reducing the amount of packages; in the end I think such a policy would lose more in lost sales than it would gain in reduced costs. -- adamw
Re: [Cooker] 9.1 Beta 2
On Thu, 2003-01-23 at 13:04, Teletchéa Stéphane wrote: I think these applications should stay in the downloadable isos. For day-to-day applications, i think it could be a great idea to have two applications for each task (may be one for kde, the other for gnome). Again, I have to say I don't think this is as good an idea as it first seems. For instance, take email clients. Your policy would lead to the inclusion of, probably, KMail and Evolution. But what about Sylpheed, for the people who don't want the weight of Evolution? There's similar scenarios...file managers? Again, Konqueror and Nautilus would of course get the nod, as the integrated components, but what about the lightweight alternatives? -- adamw
Re: [Cooker] 9.1 Beta 2
Le jeu 23/01/2003 à 15:24, Adam Williamson a écrit : On Thu, 2003-01-23 at 13:04, Teletchéa Stéphane wrote: I think these applications should stay in the downloadable isos. For day-to-day applications, i think it could be a great idea to have two applications for each task (may be one for kde, the other for gnome). Again, I have to say I don't think this is as good an idea as it first seems. For instance, take email clients. Your policy would lead to the inclusion of, probably, KMail and Evolution. But what about Sylpheed, for the people who don't want the weight of Evolution? There's similar scenarios...file managers? Again, Konqueror and Nautilus would of course get the nod, as the integrated components, but what about the lightweight alternatives? -- adamw I agree with your point, but if we say for example : 2 contributions per desktop (i'm not even talking about only window managers ...), you'll get at least 4 mail clients and then the debate is closed ... I'm just saying that there should be at least one for each desktop, and if you want something else, just subscribe to the club, you'll get it ;-)) But i think it is not fair : if you need a smaller client, it is certainly because you don't have money for upgrading your computer, then paying for the club i maybe too expensive ?? Not a criticism, just arguemnts, i hope they are 'fair'. Stef Linux 2.4.19-16mdk #1 Fri Sep 20 18:15:05 CEST 2002 4:00pm up 13 days, 3:52, 3 users, load average: 1.08, 1.16, 1.21 signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [Cooker] 9.1 Beta 2
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Thursday 23 January 2003 06:20 am, Adam Williamson wrote: On Thu, 2003-01-23 at 12:32, Buchan Milne wrote: Yes. I hate xcdroast (mainly due to gtk file selection suckiness), k3b should be ok. But then, k3b and xcdroast must be worked on actively (in the time it would take to maintain arson etc). Except then GNOME guys like me don't want to use k3b. It's this kind of difference that's the reason Mandrake has so many CD burners in the first place, of course. I can see it can be an inconvenience to developers, but I also think in a way it's one of Mandrake's selling points; there's few other commercial distros with such a massive variety of packaged programs. I don't think it's a good idea to start a thin end of the wedge policy of reducing the amount of packages; in the end I think such a policy would lose more in lost sales than it would gain in reduced costs. Well we could do the sane thing and completely strip gnome from the distro accept for a few well placed aps. Thats personnaly why I started useing it in the first pace when it was a kde distro. - -- -~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~- Brook Humphrey Mobile PC Medic, 420 1st, Cheney, WA 99004, 509-235-9107 http://www.webmedic.net, [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] Holiness unto the Lord -~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~- -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE+MBF7nT1TkA6FgPgRAmKnAJ0ZI9I5OACxh73ioq0pEjBWA3K17ACfeai3 J9evv5gxrP6SmM3VLVkYBgg= =iQ3O -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: [Cooker] 9.1 Beta 2
Am Donnerstag, 23. Januar 2003, 07:59:55 Uhr MET, schrieb Brook Humphrey: Well we could do the sane thing and completely strip gnome from the distro accept for a few well placed aps. Thats personnaly why I started useing it in the first pace when it was a kde distro. I think you forgot the smiley. -- Götz Waschk master of computer science University of Rostock http://wwwtec.informatik.uni-rostock.de/~waschk/waschk.asc for PGP key -- Logout Fascism! --
Re: [Cooker] 9.1 Beta 2
Teletchéa Stéphane wrote: Le jeu 23/01/2003 à 14:23, Robert Fox a écrit : On Thu, 2003-01-23 at 12:08, Warly wrote: Shouldn't we agree on making compromise and selecting some applications instead of including everything ? As an example shouldn't we agree on making xcdroast, or k3b, the mandrake default burner, and convince everybody to test it and make it good enough for everyone, instead of having 5 of them ? Well said!!! I think we should use a voting system (like the RPM package voting in the MandrakeClub) which narrows down the top apps like e-mail, browser, news reader, text editor, etc. Having a default application and maybe one alternative (second runner up) would help reduce confusion for newbies and make the distro more manageable size wise. The third and fourth tier softwares could then be available from a Mandrake Updateable website (kinda like the PLF and Texstar's stuff) using RPMDRAKE. This would be awesome! Great idea Warly! I think i agree for almost what i said, but i would remind you some stuff : as a scientist, i use specific applications which are not very useful in day-to-day usage (xmgrace, pybliographic, xdrawchem), so they will not collect enough votes. But these are mandatory for me and some others ... I think these applications should stay in the downloadable isos. For day-to-day applications, i think it could be a great idea to have two applications for each task (may be one for kde, the other for gnome). Other applications could be available via Mandrake Club if desired. It could be a good way to enrich the club's lack of attract (except for charity reasons) : here is a good way to improve the Club's attracting value. Stef *~~* Linux 2.4.19-16mdk #1 Fri Sep 20 18:15:05 CEST 2002 1:00pm up 13 days, 52 min, 3 users, load average: 1.00, 1.02, 1.02 I hate to say this, but in fact Lindows in version 3.0 is doing most of what we are doing in the Club as far as apckages, but giving one year access for those that buy systems with Lindows on, then selling at $99.00 per year for access after that. Essentially, $99.00 per user or machine per year would pay for a huge hunk of bandwidth. Am willing to stay at silver membership (cannot afford higher right now) but would suggest going to a level that cuts out the lowest level or where the lowest level cuts out library access for non-core upgrades and additional tested packages, starts at about $100.00 per year, and give 3-6 months access with a boxed set purchase. At that income\user point, most of the apps we are culling could be libraried on club mirrors and at that level, Mandrake could get a professional data librarian to track the main mirror(which in essence is why Lindows went to the software library concept, they run a limited number of very high speed and high capacity mirrors, and library memberships pay for a lot of the pure data handling costs (as opposed to dev costs). While I do not mean to suggest a me-too thing here, I do think the general principle holds water, with RPM and mirror content management a librarian kind of thing that the club could fund if done right. Down the line, we might build a Scientific ISO, a Media ISO, and use the category chunking to advantage as a library management thing-- if we get enough call to build an ISO, and enough users then download to pay for the cost of generating a valid tested ISO, then we could also sell same pre-burned as add-on packages. I am going to propose this also on the Club, see if can get a bunch of feedback. If you want, will echo that to AOLM NG also, see what the response is. John.
Re: [Cooker] 9.1 Beta 2 (ntfs and install)
Adam Williamson [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: N.B. This driver has now been abandoned in favour of the new one. driver has nothing to do with resizer. resizing is a lot much easier than having writing support (which assumes having resolving all interactions between vfs/mm/ntfs regarding file holes, truncation, mapping with compressed/crypted/with_attributes inodes and the like. unlike having fully reliable write support, resizing does not involve manipulating file attributes but only file system truncation or expansion, that is only truncating/expanding fs structures. Add support for writing. mkntfsStable Create an NTFS volume on a partition ntfsfix BetaTell windows we've made changes to a volume ntfslabel BetaDisplay or set a volume's label ntfsresizeBetaResize an NTFS volume Note particularly the Beta status of those last three tools, and the warning on the front page to back up your data before using the beta tools... as of ntfsresize: Is it reliable? Since July of 2002, when ntfsresize became publicly available, there were success reports resizing Windows NT4, 2000, XP and .NET NTFS filesystems on both workstation and server versions (Home, Professional, Server, Advanced Server). NO DESTROYED FILESYSTEM WAS REPORTED SO FAR. DURING THIS TIME THERE WERE NO CORE CHANGES OR FIXES IN THE SOURCE SO WE SUPPOSE THE CODE MUST BE RELIABLE. However much more widely usage is needed to state it's stable thus we strongly recommend to have a backup of your data (you have anyway, haven't you ;) since i was able to bough a good box for 500 euros last week, i ended in buying a box with xp preinstalled. this was time to test ntfsresize. it seems to works fine but mark the fs as dirty so that zindoz check it on reboot. we all agree it need *lots* of testing but it seems to be usable. of course we'll have to display a very big warning.
Re: [Cooker] 9.1 Beta 2 (ntfs and install)
On Wed, 2003-01-22 at 12:30, Thierry Vignaud wrote: Adam Williamson [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: N.B. This driver has now been abandoned in favour of the new one. driver has nothing to do with resizer. resizing is a lot much easier than having writing support (which assumes having resolving all interactions between vfs/mm/ntfs regarding file holes, truncation, mapping with compressed/crypted/with_attributes inodes and the like. unlike having fully reliable write support, resizing does not involve manipulating file attributes but only file system truncation or expansion, that is only truncating/expanding fs structures. I agree, but the original proposition from somebody was, I think, to have full ntfs support using this set of tools included in Mandrake, so I quoted this section in light of that. Add support for writing. mkntfs Stable Create an NTFS volume on a partition ntfsfix BetaTell windows we've made changes to a volume ntfslabel BetaDisplay or set a volume's label ntfsresize BetaResize an NTFS volume Note particularly the Beta status of those last three tools, and the warning on the front page to back up your data before using the beta tools... as of ntfsresize: Is it reliable? Since July of 2002, when ntfsresize became publicly available, there were success reports resizing Windows NT4, 2000, XP and .NET NTFS filesystems on both workstation and server versions (Home, Professional, Server, Advanced Server). NO DESTROYED FILESYSTEM WAS REPORTED SO FAR. DURING THIS TIME THERE WERE NO CORE CHANGES OR FIXES IN THE SOURCE SO WE SUPPOSE THE CODE MUST BE RELIABLE. However much more widely usage is needed to state it's stable thus we strongly recommend to have a backup of your data (you have anyway, haven't you ;) since i was able to bough a good box for 500 euros last week, i ended in buying a box with xp preinstalled. this was time to test ntfsresize. it seems to works fine but mark the fs as dirty so that zindoz check it on reboot. we all agree it need *lots* of testing but it seems to be usable. of course we'll have to display a very big warning. Perhaps... Put it only in DiskDrake's expert mode. Don't enable it by default, but have a button when you select an NTFS partition that says Enable NTFS resizing - WARNING: EXPERIMENTAL! When you click it it brings up a dialog box explaining that NTFS resizing uses a beta tool, is experimental, data backup is highly recommended and it isn't guaranteed not to trash your data. Or at least something equally drastic :) -- adamw
Re: [Cooker] 9.1 Beta 2 (ntfs and install)
Adam Williamson wrote: On Wed, 2003-01-22 at 12:30, Thierry Vignaud wrote: I agree, but the original proposition from somebody was, I think, to have full ntfs support using this set of tools included in Mandrake, so I quoted this section in light of that. I don't think anyone said anything about read/write support. We only need resize (the argument was many XP boxes ship one NTFS partition, why I don't know since it's always a good idea to have more than one partition, by default) and ro support (which should be robust enough to have drakfont finish at least). Perhaps... Put it only in DiskDrake's expert mode. Don't enable it by default, but have a button when you select an NTFS partition that says Enable NTFS resizing - WARNING: EXPERIMENTAL! What if the user has a single NTFS partition and is not installing in expert (well, is there even expert mode in DrakX now?). When you click it it brings up a dialog box explaining that NTFS resizing uses a beta tool, is experimental, data backup is highly recommended and it isn't guaranteed not to trash your data. I think all the non-native resizing options in drakx/diskdrake already say that ... Buchan -- |--Another happy Mandrake Club member--| Buchan MilneMechanical Engineer, Network Manager Cellphone * Work+27 82 472 2231 * +27 21 8828820x121 Stellenbosch Automotive Engineering http://www.cae.co.za GPG Key http://ranger.dnsalias.com/bgmilne.asc 1024D/60D204A7 2919 E232 5610 A038 87B1 72D6 AC92 BA50 60D2 04A7
Re: [Cooker] 9.1 Beta 2
Damian Gatabria [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: please forgive me for butting in here... but.. Midnight Commander 83 (really useful ?) you mean 9.1 will NOT have mc???! I mean that switching to 650 MB ISO removed 150MB of packages, and that 9.1 is likely to have nearly 200 packages less than 9.0. -- Warly
Re: [Cooker] 9.1 Beta 2
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Wednesday 22 January 2003 06:32 am, Warly wrote: Damian Gatabria [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: please forgive me for butting in here... but.. Midnight Commander 83 (really useful ?) you mean 9.1 will NOT have mc???! I mean that switching to 650 MB ISO removed 150MB of packages, and that 9.1 is likely to have nearly 200 packages less than 9.0. Thats ok I'll roll my own and make them 700mb to boot. Ah the freedom. - -- -~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~- Brook Humphrey Mobile PC Medic, 420 1st, Cheney, WA 99004, 509-235-9107 http://www.webmedic.net, [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] Holiness unto the Lord -~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~- -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE+LrE9nT1TkA6FgPgRAk3nAJ4y4PVfu+75mq5Y6Mfa9eijgJkITwCfSxOH ZRtHzYJGAGudx3gNZgKYWHc= =coiq -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: [Cooker] 9.1 Beta 2
Warly wrote: I mean that switching to 650 MB ISO removed 150MB of packages, and that 9.1 is likely to have nearly 200 packages less than 9.0. Is there any reason why the commercial apps *have* to go on the free space in the GPL CDs? Is there any reason why a 4th commercial-only CD is a bad idea? As far as I can see, having a 4th CD could have some advantages: 1)Users can buy just the 4th CD (at about half a standard pack?). If all the proprietary drivers are on the 4th CD, any time (winmodem, NVidia, Radeon 7xxx, speedtouch) a device is found that needs proprietary drivers, this DC could be advertised. 2)The first 3 CDs of GPL and Standard could be identical. Since it would be advantageous to have the hdlists for the commercial software (see (1)) on the 1st CD, and the 3rd CD would be identical, the only difference between Standard and GPL would be the 4th commercial CD. I think this would have some advantages in a number of ways, and don't see why commercial software should restrict the size of the other CDs, when instead it could be used to push up sales (even if only of the commercial software). Of course, if this were to happen, a nice button in MCC would be cool, something like 'Add 4th (commercial) CD software source'. Buchan -- |--Another happy Mandrake Club member--| Buchan MilneMechanical Engineer, Network Manager Cellphone * Work+27 82 472 2231 * +27 21 8828820x121 Stellenbosch Automotive Engineering http://www.cae.co.za GPG Key http://ranger.dnsalias.com/bgmilne.asc 1024D/60D204A7 2919 E232 5610 A038 87B1 72D6 AC92 BA50 60D2 04A7
Re: [Cooker] 9.1 Beta 2
On Wednesday 22 January 2003 16:06, Buchan Milne wrote: Warly wrote: I mean that switching to 650 MB ISO removed 150MB of packages, and that 9.1 is likely to have nearly 200 packages less than 9.0. Is there any reason why the commercial apps *have* to go on the free space in the GPL CDs? Is there any reason why a 4th commercial-only CD is a bad idea? As far as I can see, having a 4th CD could have some advantages: 1)Users can buy just the 4th CD (at about half a standard pack?). If all the proprietary drivers are on the 4th CD, any time (winmodem, NVidia, Radeon 7xxx, speedtouch) a device is found that needs proprietary drivers, this DC could be advertised. 2)The first 3 CDs of GPL and Standard could be identical. Since it would be advantageous to have the hdlists for the commercial software (see (1)) on the 1st CD, and the 3rd CD would be identical, the only difference between Standard and GPL would be the 4th commercial CD. I think this would have some advantages in a number of ways, and don't see why commercial software should restrict the size of the other CDs, when instead it could be used to push up sales (even if only of the commercial software). Of course, if this were to happen, a nice button in MCC would be cool, something like 'Add 4th (commercial) CD software source'. Buchan 100% ACK on that. -- Regards Steffen counter.li.org : #296567. machine: 181800 vdr-box : 87 Please dont CC me, since if I have replied I'll watch the tread. Both mails will be filtered to the ML-folder. Thanks
Re: [Cooker] 9.1 Beta 2
On Wednesday 22 January 2003 10:06 am, Buchan Milne wrote: Warly wrote: I mean that switching to 650 MB ISO removed 150MB of packages, and that 9.1 is likely to have nearly 200 packages less than 9.0. ehhh,,, on _MY_ download ISO from 9.0 it shows only 456 megs, and that menas to me that in the 9.0 download, there was room for an extra nearly 200 packages GPL that did NOT get included, Now if the problem with GMC had to do with Gnome2 -v- Gnome... that is a horse of a different color
Re: [Cooker] 9.1 Beta 2
On Wednesday 22 January 2003 14:57, Brook Humphrey wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Wednesday 22 January 2003 06:32 am, Warly wrote: Damian Gatabria [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: please forgive me for butting in here... but.. Midnight Commander 83 (really useful ?) you mean 9.1 will NOT have mc???! I mean that switching to 650 MB ISO removed 150MB of packages, and that 9.1 is likely to have nearly 200 packages less than 9.0. Thats ok I'll roll my own and make them 700mb to boot. Ah the freedom. looks like my last message to cooker never made it? here goes again. just in case. I know that installing mc from an external source is always an option, but c'mon, Mandrake is a self-proclaimed all around distro, able to perform as a workstation or server as well.. or so i've read multiple times. Taking this into consideration, including mc and having CLI versions of the *drak* tools go hand in hand. I agree that most people use the GUI, i use konq 50% of the time as well, but i don't feel that's reason enough to take away the CLI filemanager which has it all (double pane views, network transparency (ftp client, etc) VFS (being able to navigate into archive files as if they were directories --konq is not as good as mc in this respect yet... ) integrated shell, text editor, hex editor...) For that matter, if you wanna make more room in the CD's, you could remove the CLI versions of the drake tools, couldn't ya? Better yet, if you need more space in the CD's, you could remove some games! the 9.0 release had 4 different apps to play solitaire!!! Umm.. and what's the size of the mc package? Damian
Re: [Cooker] 9.1 Beta 2
On Wed, 2003-01-22 at 15:50, et wrote: On Wednesday 22 January 2003 10:06 am, Buchan Milne wrote: Warly wrote: I mean that switching to 650 MB ISO removed 150MB of packages, and that 9.1 is likely to have nearly 200 packages less than 9.0. ehhh,,, on _MY_ download ISO from 9.0 it shows only 456 megs, and that menas to me that in the 9.0 download, there was room for an extra nearly 200 packages GPL that did NOT get included, Now if the problem with GMC had to do with Gnome2 -v- Gnome... that is a horse of a different color *SIGH* PLEASE read the archives before posting this kind of thing. This has been explained at LEAST five times. The reason there's space on CD3 is that the bought version of Mandrake has extra commercial apps on CD3. Space is left on the free version for these apps. -- adamw
Re: [Cooker] 9.1 Beta 2
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Wednesday 22 January 2003 04:56 am, Damian Gatabria wrote: On Wednesday 22 January 2003 14:57, Brook Humphrey wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Wednesday 22 January 2003 06:32 am, Warly wrote: Damian Gatabria [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: please forgive me for butting in here... but.. Midnight Commander 83 (really useful ?) you mean 9.1 will NOT have mc???! I mean that switching to 650 MB ISO removed 150MB of packages, and that 9.1 is likely to have nearly 200 packages less than 9.0. Thats ok I'll roll my own and make them 700mb to boot. Ah the freedom. looks like my last message to cooker never made it? here goes again. just in case. I know that installing mc from an external source is always an option, but c'mon, Mandrake is a self-proclaimed all around distro, able to perform as a workstation or server as well.. or so i've read multiple times. Taking this into consideration, including mc and having CLI versions of the *drak* tools go hand in hand. I agree that most people use the GUI, i use konq 50% of the time as well, but i don't feel that's reason enough to take away the CLI filemanager which has it all (double pane views, network transparency (ftp client, etc) VFS (being able to navigate into archive files as if they were directories --konq is not as good as mc in this respect yet... ) integrated shell, text editor, hex editor...) Well I use mc quite allot. For all kinds of things. Editing files, moving through archives, moving through rpm's and installing them(rpmdrake is broke to often to be usable for me (probably my own fault as I run allot of stuff that is not included with the stock mandrake install)). It's uses are almost endless if you are stuck at cli but to top it off I even use it under x11 and kde since it is so much faster. For that matter, if you wanna make more room in the CD's, you could remove the CLI versions of the drake tools, couldn't ya? Better yet, if you need more space in the CD's, you could remove some games! the 9.0 release had 4 different apps to play solitaire!!! Umm.. and what's the size of the mc package? 1.7 megs. Thats the current package sitting in cooker. - -- -~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~- Brook Humphrey Mobile PC Medic, 420 1st, Cheney, WA 99004, 509-235-9107 http://www.webmedic.net, [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] Holiness unto the Lord -~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~- -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE+LsH2nT1TkA6FgPgRAl1fAKCCjrcGbkSwJIt4gilyXxxnpeU4MwCfbKkD NI9U5812eZTaIdP+j1RPtE0= =U0YY -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: [Cooker] 9.1 Beta 2
*SIGH* yes I know, and we are now (I thought) discussing why GMC is going to be left off the 9.1 download cds at 650 megs due to no size left... seems to me the download cds, especially if we are going to have them the same as the the first 3 standard cds now have more space avail. I know it has been gone into ad nausuam, and I apologize for bringing it back up On Wednesday 22 January 2003 10:59 am, Adam Williamson wrote: On Wed, 2003-01-22 at 15:50, et wrote: On Wednesday 22 January 2003 10:06 am, Buchan Milne wrote: Warly wrote: I mean that switching to 650 MB ISO removed 150MB of packages, and that 9.1 is likely to have nearly 200 packages less than 9.0. ehhh,,, on _MY_ download ISO from 9.0 it shows only 456 megs, and that menas to me that in the 9.0 download, there was room for an extra nearly 200 packages GPL that did NOT get included, Now if the problem with GMC had to do with Gnome2 -v- Gnome... that is a horse of a different color *SIGH* PLEASE read the archives before posting this kind of thing. This has been explained at LEAST five times. The reason there's space on CD3 is that the bought version of Mandrake has extra commercial apps on CD3. Space is left on the free version for these apps.
Re: [Cooker] 9.1 Beta 2
On Wed, 22 Jan 2003 08:08:22 -0800 Brook Humphrey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Umm.. and what's the size of the mc package? 1.7 megs. Thats the current package sitting in cooker. mc is the easiest and the the most user friendly of the CLI fm,s I have used it since moving to linux and I would vote that it continue to be offered as part of the basic install. As to the current cooker mc rpm both the spec, which still contains the build instructs for gmc which is no longer a part of mc, and the release itself 4.5, current available version as of today is 4.6.0-pre3, are outdated. Charles It's not the fall that kills you, it's the landing. -- Mandrake Linux 9.1 Kernel- 2.4.21-0.pre3.1mdk -- msg87394/pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [Cooker] 9.1 Beta 2
Adam Williamson wrote: *SIGH* PLEASE read the archives before posting this kind of thing. This has been explained at LEAST five times. The reason there's space on CD3 is that the bought version of Mandrake has extra commercial apps on CD3. Space is left on the free version for these apps. But no-one has explained why this is necessary. This limits the amount of space available for commercial apps to 150MB, and ensures that CDs 1 (hdlists for commercial stuff) and 3 (the commercial stuff itself) differ. Please read the post I made about 3 posts before yours (the one et cut out) explaining what I think are the advantages to having the commercial stuff on a 4th CD. AFAIK, there is no explanation as to why a 4th CD is impossible, or even udesireable. Buchan -- |--Another happy Mandrake Club member--| Buchan MilneMechanical Engineer, Network Manager Cellphone * Work+27 82 472 2231 * +27 21 8828820x121 Stellenbosch Automotive Engineering http://www.cae.co.za GPG Key http://ranger.dnsalias.com/bgmilne.asc 1024D/60D204A7 2919 E232 5610 A038 87B1 72D6 AC92 BA50 60D2 04A7
Re: [Cooker] 9.1 Beta 2
On Wed, 2003-01-22 at 17:02, Buchan Milne wrote: Adam Williamson wrote: *SIGH* PLEASE read the archives before posting this kind of thing. This has been explained at LEAST five times. The reason there's space on CD3 is that the bought version of Mandrake has extra commercial apps on CD3. Space is left on the free version for these apps. But no-one has explained why this is necessary. This limits the amount of space available for commercial apps to 150MB, and ensures that CDs 1 (hdlists for commercial stuff) and 3 (the commercial stuff itself) differ. Please read the post I made about 3 posts before yours (the one et cut out) explaining what I think are the advantages to having the commercial stuff on a 4th CD. AFAIK, there is no explanation as to why a 4th CD is impossible, or even udesireable. Buchan Oh, I agree with your idea entirely. I wasn't disputing it. Just explaining the spare space thing. I think your idea is excellent. -- adamw
Re: [Cooker] 9.1 Beta 2 (ntfs and install)
Buchan Milne [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Perhaps... Put it only in DiskDrake's expert mode. Don't enable it by default, but have a button when you select an NTFS partition that says Enable NTFS resizing - WARNING: EXPERIMENTAL! What if the user has a single NTFS partition and is not installing in expert (well, is there even expert mode in DrakX now?). not really... except in the diskdrake part :) When you click it it brings up a dialog box explaining that NTFS resizing uses a beta tool, is experimental, data backup is highly recommended and it isn't guaranteed not to trash your data. I think all the non-native resizing options in drakx/diskdrake already say that ... true
Re: [Cooker] 9.1 Beta 2
On Mon, 2003-01-20 at 20:26, Steffen Barszus wrote: Most of the people who are using Mandrake (and _not_ most of us) use Konqueror or Nautilus for their file browsing. Those are the ones that (I guess) need to be accomodated. I guess here you are wrong, if I did not get you false. Exactly this person have votedt for mc haven't they ? Further the most noob people are helpless if X crashes and there is no MC. Further a lot of win user that have used nc in good ol' times are very familar and happy with it. mc is a must. point. finito. Very good points. I have to agree that command line tools should be accommodated within the main distro, for exactly the reason you specify; sometimes, stuff goes wrong, and you need to be able to do everything from the command line. (For this reason it'd be nice to have a more noob-friendly text editor, like nano, in the default install, since the best time for a noob to try and learn emacs or vim is *not* when they're stuck at the console with a non-working X). Second, it smells suspiciously like the Windows route of deprecating everything that doesn't run in the GUI, which I don't think is a good way to go. People should be encouraged to use the command line, not discouraged from it. -- adamw
Re: [Cooker] 9.1 Beta 2
On Mon, 2003-01-20 at 22:26, Sander Jonkers aka Surfer wrote: On Mon, 2003-01-20 at 10:14, Warly wrote: IceWM 25 Do we have to vote for something small and essential as IceWM? I can't use my 400Mhz/64MB laptop without it. I use my 400Mhz/128MB laptop with GNOME, but maybe I'm just a masochist =) -- adamw
Re: [Cooker] 9.1 Beta 2
Adam Williamson wrote: On Mon, 2003-01-20 at 22:26, Sander Jonkers aka Surfer wrote: Do we have to vote for something small and essential as IceWM? I can't use my 400Mhz/64MB laptop without it. I use my 400Mhz/128MB laptop with GNOME, but maybe I'm just a masochist =) No, the extra 64MB makes all the difference. I use KDE3 on my 500MHz/192MB laptop, and the extra 64MB over 128 also makes all the difference. How fast a WM is is largely dependant on the amount of ram you have, until you hit about 384MB. Buchan -- |--Another happy Mandrake Club member--| Buchan MilneMechanical Engineer, Network Manager Cellphone * Work+27 82 472 2231 * +27 21 8828820x121 Stellenbosch Automotive Engineering http://www.cae.co.za GPG Key http://ranger.dnsalias.com/bgmilne.asc 1024D/60D204A7 2919 E232 5610 A038 87B1 72D6 AC92 BA50 60D2 04A7
Re: [Cooker] 9.1 Beta 2
On Tue, 2003-01-21 at 03:49, Adam Williamson wrote: On Mon, 2003-01-20 at 22:26, Sander Jonkers aka Surfer wrote: Do we have to vote for something small and essential as IceWM? I can't use my 400Mhz/64MB laptop without it. I use my 400Mhz/128MB laptop with GNOME, but maybe I'm just a masochist My PII/300MHz/128MB laptop runs GNOME just fine. As long as I don't open Mozilla or OpenOffice, it's not that bad. I find the slowest part of the system is the hard drive anyway. Besides, when I used blackbox, Mozilla and OpenOffice didn't open any faster anyway. Austin -- Austin Acton Hon.B.Sc. Synthetic Organic Chemist, Teaching Assistant Department of Chemistry, York University, Toronto MandrakeClub Volunteer (www.mandrakeclub.com) homepage: www.groundstate.ca
Re: [Cooker] 9.1 Beta 2
On Monday 20 January 2003 17:17, Austin Acton wrote: On Mon, 2003-01-20 at 11:17, Guillaume Cottenceau wrote: a sound editing tool whose sound is broken and which can not record can still be a very good app? :) Sound is only broken in KDE. Austin Soundrecording with gnomemmeting seems to work in kde for me
Re: [Cooker] 9.1 Beta 2
Le Mardi 21 Janvier 2003 16:20, andre a écrit : On Monday 20 January 2003 17:17, Austin Acton wrote: On Mon, 2003-01-20 at 11:17, Guillaume Cottenceau wrote: a sound editing tool whose sound is broken and which can not record can still be a very good app? :) Sound is only broken in KDE. Austin Soundrecording with gnomemmeting seems to work in kde for me last testing I did, gnomemeeting recording was only working while artsd is NOT running and you start gnomemeeting directly from the shell while 'artdsp gnomemeeting' would only work for sound listening. I have to re test that with current versions of kde / gnomemeeting. -- Pascal Cavy - VMF __ Running 1 day, 1:56, 8 users, load average: 0.13, 1.30, 2.66 (gcc version 3.2 (Mandrake Linux 9.1 3.2-4mdk)) Kernel Linux version 2.4.20-2mdkenterprise
Re: [Cooker] 9.1 Beta 2
On Tue, 2003-01-21 at 14:13, Austin Acton wrote: On Tue, 2003-01-21 at 03:49, Adam Williamson wrote: On Mon, 2003-01-20 at 22:26, Sander Jonkers aka Surfer wrote: Do we have to vote for something small and essential as IceWM? I can't use my 400Mhz/64MB laptop without it. I use my 400Mhz/128MB laptop with GNOME, but maybe I'm just a masochist My PII/300MHz/128MB laptop runs GNOME just fine. As long as I don't Wow, 128 MB?! That must twice as capable as my machine. ;-( open Mozilla or OpenOffice, it's not that bad. I find the slowest part of the system is the hard drive anyway. Besides, when I used blackbox, My hard drive must be slow also: as soon as swap (on the hard drive) is needed, the slow down is enormours. Mozilla and OpenOffice didn't open any faster anyway. I run IceWM, knode and evolution locally. Running Galeon on top of that is horribly slow, so I do a 'ssh' to my BigMachine upstairs (0.75Ghz, 0.75GB RAM) and run Galeon from there. Sander
Re: [Cooker] 9.1 Beta 2
On Tuesday 21 January 2003 17:52, Pascal Cavy wrote: Le Mardi 21 Janvier 2003 16:20, andre a écrit : On Monday 20 January 2003 17:17, Austin Acton wrote: On Mon, 2003-01-20 at 11:17, Guillaume Cottenceau wrote: a sound editing tool whose sound is broken and which can not record can still be a very good app? :) Sound is only broken in KDE. Austin Soundrecording with gnomemmeting seems to work in kde for me last testing I did, gnomemeeting recording was only working while artsd is NOT running and you start gnomemeeting directly from the shell while 'artdsp gnomemeeting' would only work for sound listening. I have to re test that with current versions of kde / gnomemeeting. You're right, but i can't even find gnomemeeting in the menu so it isn't that bad
Re: [Cooker] 9.1 Beta 2
On Tue, 2003-01-21 at 20:57, Sander Jonkers aka Surfer wrote: I use my 400Mhz/128MB laptop with GNOME, but maybe I'm just a masochist My PII/300MHz/128MB laptop runs GNOME just fine. As long as I don't Wow, 128 MB?! That must twice as capable as my machine. ;-( open Mozilla or OpenOffice, it's not that bad. I find the slowest part of the system is the hard drive anyway. Besides, when I used blackbox, My hard drive must be slow also: as soon as swap (on the hard drive) is needed, the slow down is enormours. Most all notebook hard drives are very slow in comparison to desktops. The reason is simple; to make a hard disk faster the easiest method is just to make it spin quicker, but this has two big problems for a notebook - it consumes more power and generates more heat. Thus, almost all notebook hard disks spin at 4,200RPM, in comparison to desktop drives which normally spin at 5,400RPM or these days mostly at 7,200RPM. There's a couple of laptop 5,400RPM models, but these are found mostly in big clunky Dell laptops, they eat battery power and burn your lap... Mozilla and OpenOffice didn't open any faster anyway. I run IceWM, knode and evolution locally. Running Galeon on top of that is horribly slow, so I do a 'ssh' to my BigMachine upstairs (0.75Ghz, 0.75GB RAM) and run Galeon from there. Yikes, Evolution?! Evolution EATS RAM, I'd never use it on a 64MB machine. Can't you use something less voracious, like Sylpheed I guess? You could probably try Opera for a web browser...it's non-free of course but I hear it uses less memory than 'Zilla-based browsers. -- adamw
Re: [Cooker] 9.1 Beta 2
Adam Williamson wrote: On Tue, 2003-01-21 at 20:57, Sander Jonkers aka Surfer wrote: I use my 400Mhz/128MB laptop with GNOME, but maybe I'm just a masochist My PII/300MHz/128MB laptop runs GNOME just fine. As long as I don't Wow, 128 MB?! That must twice as capable as my machine. ;-( my pII/233MHZ / 140 MB ram laptop, gnome, kde, enlightenment all work fine. open Mozilla or OpenOffice, it's not that bad. I find the slowest part of the system is the hard drive anyway. Besides, when I used blackbox, My hard drive must be slow also: as soon as swap (on the hard drive) is needed, the slow down is enormours. Most all notebook hard drives are very slow in comparison to desktops. The reason is simple; to make a hard disk faster the easiest method is just to make it spin quicker, but this has two big problems for a notebook - it consumes more power and generates more heat. Thus, almost all notebook hard disks spin at 4,200RPM, in comparison to desktop drives which normally spin at 5,400RPM or these days mostly at 7,200RPM. There's a couple of laptop 5,400RPM models, but these are found mostly in big clunky Dell laptops, they eat battery power and burn your lap... Mozilla and OpenOffice didn't open any faster anyway. I run IceWM, knode and evolution locally. Running Galeon on top of that is horribly slow, so I do a 'ssh' to my BigMachine upstairs (0.75Ghz, 0.75GB RAM) and run Galeon from there. Yikes, Evolution?! Evolution EATS RAM, I'd never use it on a 64MB machine. Can't you use something less voracious, like Sylpheed I guess? You could probably try Opera for a web browser...it's non-free of course but I hear it uses less memory than 'Zilla-based browsers.
Re: [Cooker] 9.1 Beta 2 (ntfs and install)
Le Lundi 20 Janvier 2003 11:14, Warly a écrit : Beta 2 now available. Two 650 MB ISOs. Included Club applications (name, then number of votes, in parenthesis reason why it has not been included) NTFS partitioning tool 87 (could not be put in gpl CDs) As said in another mail is it http://ntfs-linux.sf.net ? Today, people who want to install linux have only one HD computer with windows XP preinstalled. They want to try linux because [put what you want here]. But, only with windows and linux they *can't* go futher. XP uses ntfs partition, and so the 9.0 installer can't resize some place. If they try to pass out the 'obscure' message, they loose they HD. (perhaps you will have to write like in windows XP or 2000). So I think a tool who can resize a ntfs partition cannot be left out of the main distribution. This is a no-go thing. Emmanuel
Re: [Cooker] 9.1 Beta 2 (ntfs and install)
On Wed, 2003-01-22 at 01:51, Emmanuel Blindauer wrote: Le Lundi 20 Janvier 2003 11:14, Warly a écrit : Beta 2 now available. Two 650 MB ISOs. Included Club applications (name, then number of votes, in parenthesis reason why it has not been included) NTFS partitioning tool 87 (could not be put in gpl CDs) As said in another mail is it http://ntfs-linux.sf.net ? Today, people who want to install linux have only one HD computer with windows XP preinstalled. They want to try linux because [put what you want here]. But, only with windows and linux they *can't* go futher. XP uses ntfs partition, and so the 9.0 installer can't resize some place. If they try to pass out the 'obscure' message, they loose they HD. (perhaps you will have to write like in windows XP or 2000). So I think a tool who can resize a ntfs partition cannot be left out of the main distribution. This is a no-go thing. This is something of a sweeping generalisation. The proportion of all PCs that are running XP is, as yet, still pretty tiny, and by no means do all XP installations - pre-installed or not - use NTFS; a lot of vendors still use FAT32 by preference. But yes, NTFS will increase its presence over time, so something **RELIABLE** that can resize NTFS partitions would be good. But I think it's important that it's a well-tested utility, because a Mandrake that can't be installed without help on an NTFS disk is still infinitely preferable to one that tries to resize an NTFS disk and trashes it. -- adamw
Re: [Cooker] 9.1 Beta 2 (ntfs and install)
On Wed, 2003-01-22 at 01:04, Adam Williamson wrote: As said in another mail is it http://ntfs-linux.sf.net ? Today, people who want to install linux have only one HD computer with windows XP preinstalled. They want to try linux because [put what you want here]. But, only with windows and linux they *can't* go futher. XP uses ntfs partition, and so the 9.0 installer can't resize some place. If they try to pass out the 'obscure' message, they loose they HD. (perhaps you will have to write like in windows XP or 2000). So I think a tool who can resize a ntfs partition cannot be left out of the main distribution. This is a no-go thing. This is something of a sweeping generalisation. The proportion of all PCs that are running XP is, as yet, still pretty tiny, and by no means do all XP installations - pre-installed or not - use NTFS; a lot of vendors still use FAT32 by preference. But yes, NTFS will increase its presence over time, so something **RELIABLE** that can resize NTFS partitions would be good. But I think it's important that it's a well-tested utility, because a Mandrake that can't be installed without help on an NTFS disk is still infinitely preferable to one that tries to resize an NTFS disk and trashes it. Further to the above... The page is http://linux-ntfs.sourceforge.net The status page doesn't make it look particularly like a tool that should be relied upon to mess with people's disks during installation: NTFS - Original Driver ... N.B. This driver has now been abandoned in favour of the new one. NTFS - New Driver Status Read support has been completed and tested and the driver is in the 2.5.x kernel series since 2.5.11. The driver is much faster and cleaner than the old one, hence a better platform for new development. A backport to the 2.4 kernel series is available from our downloads page. ToDo Add support for writing. mkntfs Stable Create an NTFS volume on a partition ntfsfix BetaTell windows we've made changes to a volume ntfslabel BetaDisplay or set a volume's label ntfsresize BetaResize an NTFS volume Note particularly the Beta status of those last three tools, and the warning on the front page to back up your data before using the beta tools... -- adamw
Re: [Cooker] 9.1 Beta 2 (ntfs and install)
On Tue, 2003-01-21 at 20:04, Adam Williamson wrote: On Wed, 2003-01-22 at 01:51, Emmanuel Blindauer wrote: Le Lundi 20 Janvier 2003 11:14, Warly a écrit : Beta 2 now available. Two 650 MB ISOs. Included Club applications (name, then number of votes, in parenthesis reason why it has not been included) NTFS partitioning tool 87 (could not be put in gpl CDs) As said in another mail is it http://ntfs-linux.sf.net ? Today, people who want to install linux have only one HD computer with windows XP preinstalled. They want to try linux because [put what you want here]. But, only with windows and linux they *can't* go futher. XP uses ntfs partition, and so the 9.0 installer can't resize some place. If they try to pass out the 'obscure' message, they loose they HD. (perhaps you will have to write like in windows XP or 2000). So I think a tool who can resize a ntfs partition cannot be left out of the main distribution. This is a no-go thing. This is something of a sweeping generalisation. The proportion of all PCs that are running XP is, as yet, still pretty tiny, and by no means do all XP installations - pre-installed or not - use NTFS; a lot of vendors still use FAT32 by preference. But yes, NTFS will increase its presence over time, so something **RELIABLE** that can resize NTFS partitions would be good. But I think it's important that it's a well-tested utility, because a Mandrake that can't be installed without help on an NTFS disk is still infinitely preferable to one that tries to resize an NTFS disk and trashes it. -- adamw Agreed. As someone who tried installing Stormix on a machine with NTFS partitions, and promptly learned the value of regular backups, NTFS resizing support has to be rock-solid before a distro that wants to survive (Mandrake, for example) adopts it. Dan signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: [Cooker] 9.1 Beta 2
Warly wrote: Beta 2 now available. Two 650 MB ISOs. Included Club applications (name, then number of votes, in parenthesis reason why it has not been included) Some comments on those not included ... Sun JDK 1.4.1_01 217 (could not be put in gpl CDs) ogle 166 (codec problem) GnuCash 143 (does not fit on 2 CDs) Phoenix 112 (not packaged yet, but should we have one more browser?) Blender 96 (not packaged) KRecord 90 (not packaged) abiword 89 (still have font problems?) NTFS partitioning tool 87 (could not be put in gpl CDs) http://linux-ntfs.sourceforge.net/ ? Arson 86 (do we really need 4 or 5 cd burners in the main?) No, just one really good one ... but there isn't really one that can do everything well. Midnight Commander 83 (really useful ?) Geramik 83 (still in contrib) Audacity 78 (is it really good?) Enlightenment 0.17 74 (not packaged) Mondo Rescue 72 (still in contrib) Bastille Linux 68 (msec is better) Most reasons people voted was because the functionality Bastille had was missing, ie drakxtools support for firewalling needs to be foolproof. Digikam 66 (not packaged) In contrib: ftp://ftp.cae.co.za/pub/mandrake/cooker/i586/Mandrake/RPMS2/digikam-0.5.1-3mdk.i586.rpm Flash Player 63 (commercial) postfix 2.0 62 (not packaged yet, but postfix present) Yves? Freevo 54 (not packaged) pine 52 (commercial) In PLF, but Deno wanted to see how many people wanted it on the commecial CDs. High Performance Liquid 52 (copyright pb?) In PLF of course ... MySQLCC 0.8.7 43 (in contrib) Eclipse IDE 40 (not packaged) Also requires JRE=1.2 at least, so can't go in main/contrib. Since it uses (AFAIK) binary components for the interface, I don't know how easily it will go into jpackage, but it really is quite good, I would like to see it on the commercial CDs ... Cyrus IMAP Server 39 (?) In incoming ... ftp://ftp.linux-mandrake.com/incoming/cyrus-imapd-2.1.11-1mdk.src.rpm -- |--Another happy Mandrake Club member--| Buchan MilneMechanical Engineer, Network Manager Cellphone * Work+27 82 472 2231 * +27 21 8828820x121 Stellenbosch Automotive Engineering http://www.cae.co.za GPG Key http://ranger.dnsalias.com/bgmilne.asc 1024D/60D204A7 2919 E232 5610 A038 87B1 72D6 AC92 BA50 60D2 04A7
Re: [Cooker] 9.1 Beta 2
On Monday 20 January 2003 11:14, Warly wrote: Beta 2 now available. Two 650 MB ISOs. Included Club applications (name, then number of votes, in parenthesis reason why it has not been included) --snip --- Phoenix 112 (not packaged yet, but should we have one more browser?) according to the mozilla-people shouldn't the child-versions of mozilla be prefered and the mozilla is more a proof of concept ? So I would say yes. NTFS partitioning tool 87 (could not be put in gpl CDs) I guess it was more a hint for the box-release, according to the description. We need a commercial partitioning tool such as P.M. included atleast in powerpack .. Arson 86 (do we really need 4 or 5 cd burners in the main?) As long there is not a one-fits-all buring-app ... k3b is able to burn vcd or svcd currently only in the cvs version (upcoming k3b 0.8) and as I read it has some problems with ripping audio ... arson seems to be exactly the other the round, since it is not very friendly for burning data-cd's according to the webpage, fo which k3b is excellent. Midnight Commander 83 (really useful ?) erm ... hmmm ? Audacity 78 (is it really good?) would it be voted that much if not ? Downloader for X 61 (?) That is a tool like DAP or gozilla , a downloadmanager and accelerator. -- Regards Steffen counter.li.org : #296567. machine: 181800 vdr-box : 87 Please dont CC me, since if I have replied I'll watch the tread. Both mails will be filtered to the ML-folder. Thanks
Re: [Cooker] 9.1 Beta 2
On Mon, 20 Jan 2003 11:14:50 +0100 Warly [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Beta 2 now available. Two 650 MB ISOs. Included Club applications (name, then number of votes, in parenthesis reason why it has not been included) Blender 96 (not packaged) It's in contribs Midnight Commander 83 (really useful ?) Yes, it's imo the best filemanager for console and X (xterm) Digikam 66 (not packaged) There's gtkam as a gphoto frontend in main. Would digikam be better? -- Marcel Pol
Re: [Cooker] 9.1 Beta 2
Steffen Barszus wrote: On Monday 20 January 2003 11:14, Warly wrote: Phoenix 112 (not packaged yet, but should we have one more browser?) according to the mozilla-people shouldn't the child-versions of mozilla be prefered and the mozilla is more a proof of concept ? So I would say yes. Last time I tested phoenix, I went back to Galeon less than 5 minutes later...
Re: [Cooker] 9.1 Beta 2
This time Warly [EMAIL PROTECTED] becomes daring and writes: Beta 2 now available. Two 650 MB ISOs. Included Club applications (name, then number of votes, in parenthesis reason why it has not been included) Phoenix 112 (not packaged yet, but should we have one more browser?) Yes! :) Phoenix rules the browser world, truth be told...and the packages out there from other sources mostly suck (the one I'm running now has a very broken UI when it comes to selection boxes...all look as selected, and you never know what actually is selected and what isn't). I'd love to see a phoenix package from mandrake that actually works well (with Xft support, of course). Midnight Commander 83 (really useful ?) I don't use it much, but many people I know swear by it...it's a very nice CL tool that is worth including, at worse because it's the easiest way to undelete files in an ext2 partition. Enlightenment 0.17 74 (not packaged) This I'd love to see :) Vox -- Think of the Linux community as a niche economy isolated by its beliefs. Kind of like the Amish, except that our religion requires us to use _higher_ technology than everyone else. -- Donald B. Marti Jr. msg86852/pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [Cooker] 9.1 Beta 2
On Monday 20 January 2003 11:52, Pascal Terjan wrote: Steffen Barszus wrote: On Monday 20 January 2003 11:14, Warly wrote: Phoenix 112 (not packaged yet, but should we have one more browser?) according to the mozilla-people shouldn't the child-versions of mozilla be prefered and the mozilla is more a proof of concept ? So I would say yes. Last time I tested phoenix, I went back to Galeon less than 5 minutes later... last time I used galeon I went back 5 minutes later to mozilla ;) It was importatnt enough for onehundred people to give their vote for it ;) I haven't tested it yet . -- Regards Steffen counter.li.org : #296567. machine: 181800 vdr-box : 87 Please dont CC me, since if I have replied I'll watch the tread. Both mails will be filtered to the ML-folder. Thanks
Re: [Cooker] 9.1 Beta 2
Steffen Barszus [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: according to the mozilla-people shouldn't the child-versions of mozilla be prefered and the mozilla is more a proof of concept ? So I would say yes. mozilla has everything inside, phoenix has only a browser. I would say it doen't worth for us to have both of them. BTW: I have a tarball of a somewhat cvs phoenix compiled with fontconfig at : https://qa.mandrakesoft.com/~chmou/misc/phoenix.tar.bz2
[Cooker] 9.1 Beta 2
Beta 2 now available. Two 650 MB ISOs. Included Club applications (name, then number of votes, in parenthesis reason why it has not been included) OpenOffice 340 mplayer 329 Sun JDK 1.4.1_01 217 (could not be put in gpl CDs) Wine 198 k3b 197 ogle 166 (codec problem) GnuCash 143 (does not fit on 2 CDs) spamassassin 137 Grip 136 xmms 130 xine 123 LinNeighborhood 119 Phoenix 112 (not packaged yet, but should we have one more browser?) MySQL 107 xcdroast 102 Mozilla = 1.2 100 Blender 96 (not packaged) KOffice 93 gFTP 91 KRecord 90 (not packaged) abiword 89 (still have font problems?) NTFS partitioning tool 87 (could not be put in gpl CDs) Arson 86 (do we really need 4 or 5 cd burners in the main?) webmin 84 Midnight Commander 83 (really useful ?) Geramik 83 (still in contrib) gnomemeeting 78 Audacity 78 (is it really good?) Gaim 78 Xpdf 76 Enlightenment 0.17 74 (not packaged) GQView 72 Mondo Rescue 72 (still in contrib) Ethereal 70 Scribus 69 Bastille Linux 68 (msec is better) Digikam 66 (not packaged) Flash Player 63 (commercial) postfix 2.0 62 (not packaged yet, but postfix present) Downloader for X 61 (?) Tetex 59 650 MB ISOs 57 emacs 56 xchat 54 Freevo 54 (not packaged) Guarddog 54 (in contrib) XAwtv 53 Kopete 52 pine 52 (commercial) High Performance Liquid 52 (copyright pb?) MySQLCC 0.8.7 43 (in contrib) Eclipse IDE 40 (not packaged) Cyrus IMAP Server 39 (?) PyQt 39 (in contrib) SquirrelMail 39 (in contrib) sylpheed 38 (in contrib) vorbis-tools 38 XEmacs 35 samba-server 33 knetload 30 PostgreSQL 28 Apache 2.0 26 NVIDIA latest driver and 26 (commercial) IceWM 25 GNU GRUB 25 ncftp 23 gcombust 22 -- Warly
Re: [Cooker] 9.1 Beta 2
On Mon, 20 Jan 2003, Marcel Pol wrote: On Mon, 20 Jan 2003 11:14:50 +0100 Warly [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [snip] Midnight Commander 83 (really useful ?) Yes, it's imo the best filemanager for console and X (xterm) Yep, as a filemanager on non-X servers and as a fallback when X is in trouble... Guy Bormann
Re: [Cooker] 9.1 Beta 2
On ma, 2003-01-20 at 11:40, Buchan Milne wrote: Warly wrote: Eclipse IDE 40 (not packaged) Also requires JRE=1.2 at least, so can't go in main/contrib. Since it uses (AFAIK) binary components for the interface, I don't know how easily it will go into jpackage, but it really is quite good, I would like to see it on the commercial CDs ... Eclipse can be compiled with gcj: http://www.klomp.org/mark/gij_eclipse/ Frederik Himpe
Re: [Cooker] 9.1 Beta 2
Frederik Himpe wrote: On ma, 2003-01-20 at 11:40, Buchan Milne wrote: Also requires JRE=1.2 at least, so can't go in main/contrib. Since it uses (AFAIK) binary components for the interface, I don't know how easily it will go into jpackage, but it really is quite good, I would like to see it on the commercial CDs ... Eclipse can be compiled with gcj: http://www.klomp.org/mark/gij_eclipse/ Have you tried this? I don't think it would be a good idea to include a crashing eclipse at all, rather have a working one on the commercial CDs IMHO. Never seen eclipse crash on windows, and it's actally about the last tool I need to get some of our developers running on Mandrake, but I will not get them running Mandrake if eclipse crashes ... Buchan -- |--Another happy Mandrake Club member--| Buchan MilneMechanical Engineer, Network Manager Cellphone * Work+27 82 472 2231 * +27 21 8828820x121 Stellenbosch Automotive Engineering http://www.cae.co.za GPG Key http://ranger.dnsalias.com/bgmilne.asc 1024D/60D204A7 2919 E232 5610 A038 87B1 72D6 AC92 BA50 60D2 04A7
Re: [Cooker] 9.1 Beta 2
On Mon, 20 Jan 2003 12:45:50 +0100 (CET) Guy.Bormann [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mon, 20 Jan 2003, Marcel Pol wrote: Warly [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Midnight Commander 83 (really useful ?) Yes, it's imo the best filemanager for console and X (xterm) Yep, as a filemanager on non-X servers and as a fallback when X is in trouble... it's the most useful file tool ever, the ultimate swiss knife when there's no X. And even in X I always have a terminal open with mc. When newbs trash their X config and are stranded on the CL, what will you do? Tell them to use vi to fix it? btw, cooker mc segfaults on VTs (and only there) whenever you ctrl-o and run something like cat, less or any shell script. When you ctrl-o again to get mc panels back, you get a nice core dump. Maybe it just needs a rebuilt. I'll try - Mark
Re: [Cooker] 9.1 Beta 2 (Phoenix)
Warly [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Beta 2 now available. Two 650 MB ISOs. Included Club applications (name, then number of votes, in parenthesis reason why it has not been included) ... Phoenix 112 (not packaged yet, but should we have one more browser?) ... I vote yes - I use Phoenix all the time, both at work under Windows (groan) and at home on my Mandrake systems. - Vin
Re: [Cooker] 9.1 Beta 2
On Mon, 20 Jan 2003, Warly wrote: Midnight Commander 83 (really useful ?) YES!! More like indispensable for those of us who don't like to operate without it. Why do you think so many voted for it? Dale Huckeby
Re: [Cooker] 9.1 Beta 2
Le Monday 20 January 2003 10:40, Buchan Milne a écrit : pine 52 (commercial) In PLF, but Deno wanted to see how many people wanted it on the commecial CDs. By reading the license, I am not sure we can put it on mandrake, neither free parts or commercial CD. According it, you can't distribute a patched binary version... Puting it on plf is allready over the limit, but I need it. -- Linux pour Mac !? Enfin le moyen de transformer une pomme en véritable ordinateur. - JL. Olivier Thauvin - http://nanardon.homelinux.org/
Re: [Cooker] 9.1 Beta 2
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Monday 20 January 2003 02:14 am, Warly wrote: Beta 2 now available. Two 650 MB ISOs. Included Club applications (name, then number of votes, in parenthesis reason why it has not been included) OpenOffice 340 mplayer 329 Sun JDK 1.4.1_01 217 (could not be put in gpl CDs) Wine 198 k3b 197 ogle 166 (codec problem) GnuCash 143 (does not fit on 2 CDs) spamassassin 137 Grip 136 xmms 130 xine 123 LinNeighborhood 119 Phoenix 112 (not packaged yet, but should we have one more browser?) If you have to ask you have never used it. MySQL 107 xcdroast 102 Mozilla = 1.2 100 Blender 96 (not packaged) KOffice 93 gFTP 91 KRecord 90 (not packaged) abiword 89 (still have font problems?) NTFS partitioning tool 87 (could not be put in gpl CDs) Arson 86 (do we really need 4 or 5 cd burners in the main?) webmin 84 Midnight Commander 83 (really useful ?) Are you kidding for those that do command line it is invaluable. Geramik 83 (still in contrib) gnomemeeting 78 Audacity 78 (is it really good?) Yes I use it under windows and on my mac but the problem is that under mandrake the sound is broken and it can not record but then no app can record (at least under kde cant say under gnome as Idont really care to install it). Other than that yes it is a verry good app. Gaim 78 Xpdf 76 Enlightenment 0.17 74 (not packaged) GQView 72 Mondo Rescue 72 (still in contrib) Ethereal 70 Scribus 69 Bastille Linux 68 (msec is better) Digikam 66 (not packaged) Flash Player 63 (commercial) postfix 2.0 62 (not packaged yet, but postfix present) Downloader for X 61 (?) d4x is a very good downloader for linux. Kinda like gozilla for sindows. Tetex 59 650 MB ISOs 57 emacs 56 xchat 54 Freevo 54 (not packaged) Guarddog 54 (in contrib) XAwtv 53 Kopete 52 pine 52 (commercial) High Performance Liquid 52 (copyright pb?) MySQLCC 0.8.7 43 (in contrib) Eclipse IDE 40 (not packaged) Cyrus IMAP Server 39 (?) PyQt 39 (in contrib) SquirrelMail 39 (in contrib) sylpheed 38 (in contrib) vorbis-tools 38 XEmacs 35 samba-server 33 knetload 30 PostgreSQL 28 Apache 2.0 26 NVIDIA latest driver and 26 (commercial) IceWM 25 GNU GRUB 25 ncftp 23 gcombust 22 - -- -~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~- Brook Humphrey Mobile PC Medic, 420 1st, Cheney, WA 99004, 509-235-9107 http://www.webmedic.net, [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] Holiness unto the Lord -~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~- -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE+LAmNnT1TkA6FgPgRAgsyAJ9yO2EHsYfeorBygi2c4YvhwUnL6wCfVr1I dkwPt1CJ5iLh+xvOg6fhqJY= =etuL -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: [Cooker] 9.1 Beta 2
On Mon, 2003-01-20 at 05:14, Warly wrote: Audacity 78 (is it really good?) It is GOOD! It is one of the most useful audio programs. I use it almost every day. Problem is version 1.1.1 (current in cooker and in 9.0) if full of bugs and bad audio quality. And the next version (1.1.3 I think) will not build on our wxWindows because our version is unicode-only. I am working on a solution (and I have a cool idea). Austin -- Austin Acton Hon.B.Sc. Synthetic Organic Chemist, Teaching Assistant Department of Chemistry, York University, Toronto MandrakeClub Volunteer (www.mandrakeclub.com) homepage: www.groundstate.ca
Re: [Cooker] 9.1 Beta 2
Olivier Thauvin wrote: Le Monday 20 January 2003 10:40, Buchan Milne a écrit : pine 52 (commercial) In PLF, but Deno wanted to see how many people wanted it on the commecial CDs. By reading the license, I am not sure we can put it on mandrake, neither free parts or commercial CD. According it, you can't distribute a patched binary version... Puting it on plf is allready over the limit, but I need it. You must read the comments made on the entry for it in MandrakeClub (when you turned it to done, which AFAIK shouldn't be done until 9.1 is final ...). Deno has had contact with UW, and they are apparently happy to agree to distribution by Mandrakesoft given some minor details, which Deno will handle if sufficient people want pine ... Buchan -- |--Another happy Mandrake Club member--| Buchan MilneMechanical Engineer, Network Manager Cellphone * Work+27 82 472 2231 * +27 21 8828820x121 Stellenbosch Automotive Engineering http://www.cae.co.za GPG Key http://ranger.dnsalias.com/bgmilne.asc 1024D/60D204A7 2919 E232 5610 A038 87B1 72D6 AC92 BA50 60D2 04A7
Re: [Cooker] 9.1 Beta 2
please forgive me for butting in here... but.. Midnight Commander 83 (really useful ?) you mean 9.1 will NOT have mc???! Damian
Re: [Cooker] 9.1 Beta 2
Brook Humphrey [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Audacity 78 (is it really good?) Yes I use it under windows and on my mac but the problem is that under mandrake the sound is broken and it can not record but then no app can record (at least under kde cant say under gnome as Idont really care to install it). Other than that yes it is a verry good app. a sound editing tool whose sound is broken and which can not record can still be a very good app? :) -- Guillaume Cottenceau - http://people.mandrakesoft.com/~gc/
Re: [Cooker] 9.1 Beta 2
On Mon, 2003-01-20 at 11:17, Guillaume Cottenceau wrote: a sound editing tool whose sound is broken and which can not record can still be a very good app? :) Sound is only broken in KDE. Austin -- Austin Acton Hon.B.Sc. Synthetic Organic Chemist, Teaching Assistant Department of Chemistry, York University, Toronto MandrakeClub Volunteer (www.mandrakeclub.com) homepage: www.groundstate.ca
Re: [Cooker] 9.1 Beta 2
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Monday 20 January 2003 08:17 am, Guillaume Cottenceau wrote: Brook Humphrey [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Audacity 78 (is it really good?) Yes I use it under windows and on my mac but the problem is that under mandrake the sound is broken and it can not record but then no app can record (at least under kde cant say under gnome as Idont really care to install it). Other than that yes it is a verry good app. a sound editing tool whose sound is broken and which can not record can still be a very good app? :) it is is the sound was not broken distro wide. It's not a problem with the app but mandrakes sound drivers or maybe arts. And yes it is good as stated I've used it on multiple os's and even on mandrake back in the 8.2 days. By the way every other sound recording app was broke also. This includes all the rpm's by thac wich are quite a few and even the kde sound recording app. With beta 2 out I will update this machine to that and let you know if it's still broke. - -- -~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~- Brook Humphrey Mobile PC Medic, 420 1st, Cheney, WA 99004, 509-235-9107 http://www.webmedic.net, [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] Holiness unto the Lord -~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~- -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE+LCd6nT1TkA6FgPgRApcgAJ0QSTVw6mGdddqlByhuo0XGVsdNCACfUErp TqH3b6H3UBvSARGQ/wW2cF4= =DFP9 -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: [Cooker] 9.1 Beta 2
On Mon, 2003-01-20 at 16:17, Guillaume Cottenceau wrote: Brook Humphrey [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Audacity 78 (is it really good?) Yes I use it under windows and on my mac but the problem is that under mandrake the sound is broken and it can not record but then no app can record (at least under kde cant say under gnome as Idont really care to install it). Other than that yes it is a verry good app. a sound editing tool whose sound is broken and which can not record can still be a very good app? :) Sounds like he has problems with his audio drivers. Audacity works just fine here and it's an excellent editor (very fast), please leave it in. -- adamw
Re: [Cooker] 9.1 Beta 2
On Mon, 2003-01-20 at 10:17, Austin Acton wrote: On Mon, 2003-01-20 at 11:17, Guillaume Cottenceau wrote: a sound editing tool whose sound is broken and which can not record can still be a very good app? :) Sound is only broken in KDE. - soundwrapper audacity Works for me. TTFN, Lonnie Borntreger
Re: [Cooker] 9.1 Beta 2
On Mon, 2003-01-20 at 14:01, Buchan Milne wrote: Frederik Himpe wrote: On ma, 2003-01-20 at 11:40, Buchan Milne wrote: ... Eclipse can be compiled with gcj: http://www.klomp.org/mark/gij_eclipse/ Have you tried this? I don't think it would be a good idea to include a crashing eclipse at all, rather have a working one on the commercial CDs IMHO. Never seen eclipse crash on windows, and it's actally about the last tool I need to get some of our developers running on Mandrake, but I will not get them running Mandrake if eclipse crashes ... gjc compiling doesn't work for production uses yet, but eclipse runs fine on mandrake (once you have installed a JVM, of course). I run it on 8.2 at work, and cooker at home, using the latest sun JDKs. As fas as it using binary components: Yes, it does use either (static) motif or (dynamic) GTK2 native libraries, but that shouldn't make it impossible to package in an RPM, it just won't be a platform independent RPM. It might be a challenge to package eclipse so that it can be split up in base, motif and GKT RPMs so that the shared things won't need to be included twice, but even that might be possible. (Or it could be just the GTK version, which IMHO is vastly preferable over the motif interface...) Wouter -- I don't see why it matters what is written. Not when it's about people. It can always be crossed out. -- (Terry Pratchett Neil Gaiman, Good Omens)
Re: [Cooker] 9.1 Beta 2
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Damian Gatabria wrote on Mon, Jan 20, 2003 at 01:12:26PM + : please forgive me for butting in here... but.. Midnight Commander 83 (really useful ?) you mean 9.1 will NOT have mc???! I kind of agree with you, but we also have to look at the reality of the situation. Anybody who knows enough and is comfortable enough using a commandline browser like mc will easily be able to: urpmi.addmedia 91Main ftp://blah.blah.blah urpmi --media 91Main mc Most of the people who are using Mandrake (and _not_ most of us) use Konqueror or Nautilus for their file browsing. Those are the ones that (I guess) need to be accomodated. Blue skies... Todd - -- MandrakeSoft USA http://www.mandrakesoft.com Mandrake: An amalgam of good ideas from RedHat, Debian, and MandrakeSoft. All in all, IMHO, an unbeatable combination. --Levi Ramsey on Cooker ML Cooker Version mandrake-release-9.1-0.1mdk Kernel 2.4.20-2mdk -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE+LEQDlp7v05cW2woRAghyAJ9pPNG2gA6ZuAY3HN8OYm9gMMZ3qwCglFe9 Lqy/se3Vbp4XbNoC4ZN8ji4= =g32P -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: [Cooker] 9.1 Beta 2
I use MC. Every days. Regards, Sebastien. Le Lundi 20 Janvier 2003 19:46, Todd Lyons a écrit : -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Damian Gatabria wrote on Mon, Jan 20, 2003 at 01:12:26PM + : please forgive me for butting in here... but.. Midnight Commander 83 (really useful ?) you mean 9.1 will NOT have mc???! I kind of agree with you, but we also have to look at the reality of the situation. Anybody who knows enough and is comfortable enough using a commandline browser like mc will easily be able to: urpmi.addmedia 91Main ftp://blah.blah.blah urpmi --media 91Main mc Most of the people who are using Mandrake (and _not_ most of us) use Konqueror or Nautilus for their file browsing. Those are the ones that (I guess) need to be accomodated. Blue skies... Todd - -- MandrakeSoft USA http://www.mandrakesoft.com Mandrake: An amalgam of good ideas from RedHat, Debian, and MandrakeSoft. All in all, IMHO, an unbeatable combination. --Levi Ramsey on Cooker ML Cooker Version mandrake-release-9.1-0.1mdk Kernel 2.4.20-2mdk -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE+LEQDlp7v05cW2woRAghyAJ9pPNG2gA6ZuAY3HN8OYm9gMMZ3qwCglFe9 Lqy/se3Vbp4XbNoC4ZN8ji4= =g32P -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: [Cooker] 9.1 Beta 2
On Monday 20 January 2003 19:46, Todd Lyons wrote: I kind of agree with you, but we also have to look at the reality of the situation. Anybody who knows enough and is comfortable enough using a commandline browser like mc will easily be able to: urpmi.addmedia 91Main ftp://blah.blah.blah urpmi --media 91Main mc Most of the people who are using Mandrake (and _not_ most of us) use Konqueror or Nautilus for their file browsing. Those are the ones that (I guess) need to be accomodated. I guess here you are wrong, if I did not get you false. Exactly this person have votedt for mc haven't they ? Further the most noob people are helpless if X crashes and there is no MC. Further a lot of win user that have used nc in good ol' times are very familar and happy with it. mc is a must. point. finito. -- Regards Steffen counter.li.org : #296567. machine: 181800 vdr-box : 87 Please dont CC me, since if I have replied I'll watch the tread. Both mails will be filtered to the ML-folder. Thanks
Re: [Cooker] 9.1 Beta 2
On Mon, 2003-01-20 at 10:14, Warly wrote: IceWM 25 Do we have to vote for something small and essential as IceWM? I can't use my 400Mhz/64MB laptop without it. Sander
