Re: [coreboot] POWER9 / Talos II coreboot support?

[taii...@gmx.com]

Tim you should post the latest power figures!

Many people think it uses lots of power when it doesn't.

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Re: [coreboot] POWER9 / Talos II coreboot support?

[Mike Banon]

[4] link should be https://raptorcs.com/content/TLSDS2/intro.html ( "
TLSDSS " is not working )

On Fri, Aug 3, 2018 at 1:36 AM, Timothy Pearson
 wrote:
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA256
>
> On 06/12/2018 01:14 PM, Timothy Pearson wrote:
>> As of late last week:
>>
>> W have the processor user guide, full register documentation, and a
>> smattering of other resources released publicly [1].  The PHB
>> documentation is still in process and still moving forward, along with
>> the electrical datasheet.
>>
>> If you are interested in documentation that isn't already available and
>> isn't on the to-do list, please let me know.  My understanding is that
>> the list above should be pretty much everything needed for firmware work.
>>
>> [1] https://wiki.raptorcs.com/wiki/Category:Documentation
>>
>
> The last of the requested documentation went public just now [1][2].  We
> should now have all the documentation public needed to execute a
> firmware port.
>
> If anyone's interested, also bear in mind that there are a couple of
> active deals on complete development systems [3][4], both are under $2k
> for complete functional machines.
>
> Thanks!
>
> [1]
> https://wiki.raptorcs.com/wiki/File:POWER9_PCIe_controller_v11_27JUL2018_pub.pdf
>
> [2] https://wiki.raptorcs.com/wiki/File:P9_PHB_version1.0_27July2018_pub.pdf
>
> [3] https://raptorcs.com/content/TLSDS1/intro.html (4-core)
> [4] https://raptorcs.com/content/TLSDSS/intro.html (16-core)
>
> - --
> Timothy Pearson
> Raptor Engineering
> +1 (415) 727-8645 (direct line)
> +1 (512) 690-0200 (switchboard)
> https://www.raptorengineering.com
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> --
> coreboot mailing list: coreboot@coreboot.org
> https://mail.coreboot.org/mailman/listinfo/coreboot

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Re: [coreboot] POWER9 / Talos II coreboot support?

[Timothy Pearson]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256

On 06/12/2018 01:14 PM, Timothy Pearson wrote:
> As of late last week:
> 
> W have the processor user guide, full register documentation, and a
> smattering of other resources released publicly [1].  The PHB
> documentation is still in process and still moving forward, along with
> the electrical datasheet.
> 
> If you are interested in documentation that isn't already available and
> isn't on the to-do list, please let me know.  My understanding is that
> the list above should be pretty much everything needed for firmware work.
> 
> [1] https://wiki.raptorcs.com/wiki/Category:Documentation
> 

The last of the requested documentation went public just now [1][2].  We
should now have all the documentation public needed to execute a
firmware port.

If anyone's interested, also bear in mind that there are a couple of
active deals on complete development systems [3][4], both are under $2k
for complete functional machines.

Thanks!

[1]
https://wiki.raptorcs.com/wiki/File:POWER9_PCIe_controller_v11_27JUL2018_pub.pdf

[2] https://wiki.raptorcs.com/wiki/File:P9_PHB_version1.0_27July2018_pub.pdf

[3] https://raptorcs.com/content/TLSDS1/intro.html (4-core)
[4] https://raptorcs.com/content/TLSDSS/intro.html (16-core)

- -- 
Timothy Pearson
Raptor Engineering
+1 (415) 727-8645 (direct line)
+1 (512) 690-0200 (switchboard)
https://www.raptorengineering.com
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Re: [coreboot] POWER9 / Talos II coreboot support?

[Timothy Pearson]

As of late last week:

W have the processor user guide, full register documentation, and a
smattering of other resources released publicly [1].  The PHB
documentation is still in process and still moving forward, along with
the electrical datasheet.

If you are interested in documentation that isn't already available and
isn't on the to-do list, please let me know.  My understanding is that
the list above should be pretty much everything needed for firmware work.

[1] https://wiki.raptorcs.com/wiki/Category:Documentation

On 06/07/2018 08:05 PM, ron minnich wrote:
> where are we on the docs at this point
> 
> 
> On Thu, Jun 7, 2018 at 5:59 PM Timothy Pearson
> mailto:tpear...@raptorengineering.com>>
> wrote:
> 
> For anyone wanting a more affordable development platform for POWER9,
> check out the Talos II Lite:
> 
> https://raptorcs.com/TALOSIILITE/
> 
> Hopefully we're getting down to a price point where coreboot development
> becomes more practical (if still a bit painful)?
> 
> Looking forward to seeing coreboot on ppc64el systems!
> 
> On 05/29/2018 03:45 PM, Timothy Pearson wrote:
>> Sorry, can't add todayit's a little over 6,000 pages of new
>> documentation.  Still, hardly light reading!
> 
>> On 05/29/2018 03:39 PM, Timothy Pearson wrote:
>>> Register documentation was published today.  Links to the three
> volumes
>>> (over 7000 pages of documentation!)
> 
>>>
> https://wiki.raptorcs.com/wiki/File:POWER9_Registers_vol1_version1.1_pub.pdf
> 
>>>
> https://wiki.raptorcs.com/wiki/File:POWER9_Registers_vol2_version1.2_pub.pdf
> 
>>>
> https://wiki.raptorcs.com/wiki/File:POWER9_Registers_vol3_version1.2_pub.pdf
> 
>>> That leaves only the PHB documentation in process at this point. 
> Almost
>>> there
> 
>>> On 05/12/2018 02:34 AM, Timothy Pearson wrote:
 On 05/03/2018 06:02 PM, ron minnich wrote:
> 
> 
> On Thu, May 3, 2018 at 1:20 PM Timothy Pearson
>  
>  >>
> wrote:
> 
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA256
> 
> I think I was being a bit pessimistic / too careful here. 
> We're close
> to getting the docs publicly released, but that doesn't
> help anyone
> wanting access right now, which is why I mentioned the
> other route.
> IBM's committed to getting the documentation released,
> they're just
> making sure that what they release is actually correct for
> the products
> it covers.
> 
> It might make sense to get our "working group" together
> over the next
> few weeks, by which time the documentation should be
> available in public
> form.
> 
> Are you interested in joining? :-)
> 
> 
> of course, but not until those docs are freed up.
> 
> 
 We're getting there.  First manual to be released is the
> processor user
 guide.  More to follow, including register documentation, in
> around a week.
> 
 Users guide:
> 

> https://wiki.raptorcs.com/wiki/File:POWER9_um_OpenPOWER_v20GA_09APR2018_pub.pdf
> 
> Context: I've been trying for 2 years now to get OPAL released
> under
> dual gpl2 licensing with the current apache2 license, apache2
> and gpl2
> are not compatible, so we'd be in a bit of a mess should we use
> OPAL
> code in coreboot, and it would be easiest if we were able to
> use some of
> that code.
> 
> The first response from IBM was "why do you think you need
> coreboot?" I
> worked through that, and there was agreement in the end it ought to
> happen, said agreement reached about 2 years ago. Stuff Would
> Happen, I
> was told. After that, silence.
> 
 We've reignited this.  It's underway. :-)
> 
> This is pretty much par for the course with Power. In 1990 I
> spent two
> years getting an agreement that would allow me to  get more
> agreements.
> 
 We've plowed through this already and are at the action point. 
> For the
 most part, just let me know what you need and I'll see if we can
> get it
 published.
> 
> So close doesn't count. Once I see the kind of docs I need to
> see, not
> requiring a clickwrap, and covering all aspects of every chip
> on your
> board, I'm in: I'll order a board. Until then, I can't really
> do much.
> 
 Is the NIC an issue?  There are several people working on REing the
 hardware with some great progress [1][2], but there's really no
> way to
 get Broadcom to ever release official documentation.  Everything
> else on
 the libre-friendly non-SAS version either has docs available or
> we are
 close to getting them published.
> 
> Thanks for your efforts on Power!
> 
 No problem!  We still consider Power the best path forward for
> powerful
 libre systems at this point, getting really tired of the other
> vendors
 actively working against efforts to create open firmware (this
> includes

Re: [coreboot] POWER9 / Talos II coreboot support?

[ron minnich]

where are we on the docs at this point


On Thu, Jun 7, 2018 at 5:59 PM Timothy Pearson <
tpear...@raptorengineering.com> wrote:

> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA256
>
> For anyone wanting a more affordable development platform for POWER9,
> check out the Talos II Lite:
>
> https://raptorcs.com/TALOSIILITE/
>
> Hopefully we're getting down to a price point where coreboot development
> becomes more practical (if still a bit painful)?
>
> Looking forward to seeing coreboot on ppc64el systems!
>
> On 05/29/2018 03:45 PM, Timothy Pearson wrote:
> > Sorry, can't add todayit's a little over 6,000 pages of new
> > documentation.  Still, hardly light reading!
> >
> > On 05/29/2018 03:39 PM, Timothy Pearson wrote:
> >> Register documentation was published today.  Links to the three volumes
> >> (over 7000 pages of documentation!)
> >
> >>
> https://wiki.raptorcs.com/wiki/File:POWER9_Registers_vol1_version1.1_pub.pdf
> >
> >>
> https://wiki.raptorcs.com/wiki/File:POWER9_Registers_vol2_version1.2_pub.pdf
> >
> >>
> https://wiki.raptorcs.com/wiki/File:POWER9_Registers_vol3_version1.2_pub.pdf
> >
> >> That leaves only the PHB documentation in process at this point.  Almost
> >> there
> >
> >> On 05/12/2018 02:34 AM, Timothy Pearson wrote:
> >>> On 05/03/2018 06:02 PM, ron minnich wrote:
> >
> >
>  On Thu, May 3, 2018 at 1:20 PM Timothy Pearson
>   tpear...@raptorengineering.com>>
>  wrote:
> >
>  -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
>  Hash: SHA256
> >
>  I think I was being a bit pessimistic / too careful here.  We're
> close
>  to getting the docs publicly released, but that doesn't help
> anyone
>  wanting access right now, which is why I mentioned the other
> route.
>  IBM's committed to getting the documentation released, they're
> just
>  making sure that what they release is actually correct for the
> products
>  it covers.
> >
>  It might make sense to get our "working group" together over the
> next
>  few weeks, by which time the documentation should be available in
> public
>  form.
> >
>  Are you interested in joining? :-)
> >
> >
>  of course, but not until those docs are freed up.
> >
> >
> >>> We're getting there.  First manual to be released is the processor user
> >>> guide.  More to follow, including register documentation, in around a
> week.
> >
> >>> Users guide:
> >
> >>>
> https://wiki.raptorcs.com/wiki/File:POWER9_um_OpenPOWER_v20GA_09APR2018_pub.pdf
> >
>  Context: I've been trying for 2 years now to get OPAL released under
>  dual gpl2 licensing with the current apache2 license, apache2 and gpl2
>  are not compatible, so we'd be in a bit of a mess should we use OPAL
>  code in coreboot, and it would be easiest if we were able to use some
> of
>  that code.
> >
>  The first response from IBM was "why do you think you need coreboot?"
> I
>  worked through that, and there was agreement in the end it ought to
>  happen, said agreement reached about 2 years ago. Stuff Would Happen,
> I
>  was told. After that, silence.
> >
> >>> We've reignited this.  It's underway. :-)
> >
>  This is pretty much par for the course with Power. In 1990 I spent two
>  years getting an agreement that would allow me to  get more
> agreements.
> >
> >>> We've plowed through this already and are at the action point.  For the
> >>> most part, just let me know what you need and I'll see if we can get it
> >>> published.
> >
>  So close doesn't count. Once I see the kind of docs I need to see, not
>  requiring a clickwrap, and covering all aspects of every chip on your
>  board, I'm in: I'll order a board. Until then, I can't really do much.
> >
> >>> Is the NIC an issue?  There are several people working on REing the
> >>> hardware with some great progress [1][2], but there's really no way to
> >>> get Broadcom to ever release official documentation.  Everything else
> on
> >>> the libre-friendly non-SAS version either has docs available or we are
> >>> close to getting them published.
> >
>  Thanks for your efforts on Power!
> >
> >>> No problem!  We still consider Power the best path forward for powerful
> >>> libre systems at this point, getting really tired of the other vendors
> >>> actively working against efforts to create open firmware (this includes
> >>> SiFive at this point).
> >
> >>> Will keep you posted as we get more docs published online, but thought
> >>> you and the others here might at least be interested in the users
> guide.
> >
>  ron
> >
> >
> >
> >>> [1] https://wiki.raptorcs.com/wiki/BCM5719
> >>> [2] IRC discussions on #talos-workstation
> >
> >
> >
>
> - --
> Timothy Pearson
> Raptor Engineering
> +1 (415) 727-8645 <(415)%20727-8645> (direct line)
> +1 (512) 690-0200 <(512)%20690-0200> (switchboard)
> https://www.raptorengineering.com
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
> Version: GnuPG v1
>
> 

Re: [coreboot] POWER9 / Talos II coreboot support?

[Timothy Pearson]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256

For anyone wanting a more affordable development platform for POWER9,
check out the Talos II Lite:

https://raptorcs.com/TALOSIILITE/

Hopefully we're getting down to a price point where coreboot development
becomes more practical (if still a bit painful)?

Looking forward to seeing coreboot on ppc64el systems!

On 05/29/2018 03:45 PM, Timothy Pearson wrote:
> Sorry, can't add todayit's a little over 6,000 pages of new
> documentation.  Still, hardly light reading!
> 
> On 05/29/2018 03:39 PM, Timothy Pearson wrote:
>> Register documentation was published today.  Links to the three volumes
>> (over 7000 pages of documentation!)
> 
>> https://wiki.raptorcs.com/wiki/File:POWER9_Registers_vol1_version1.1_pub.pdf
> 
>> https://wiki.raptorcs.com/wiki/File:POWER9_Registers_vol2_version1.2_pub.pdf
> 
>> https://wiki.raptorcs.com/wiki/File:POWER9_Registers_vol3_version1.2_pub.pdf
> 
>> That leaves only the PHB documentation in process at this point.  Almost
>> there
> 
>> On 05/12/2018 02:34 AM, Timothy Pearson wrote:
>>> On 05/03/2018 06:02 PM, ron minnich wrote:
> 
> 
 On Thu, May 3, 2018 at 1:20 PM Timothy Pearson
 mailto:tpear...@raptorengineering.com>>
 wrote:
> 
 -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
 Hash: SHA256
> 
 I think I was being a bit pessimistic / too careful here.  We're close
 to getting the docs publicly released, but that doesn't help anyone
 wanting access right now, which is why I mentioned the other route.
 IBM's committed to getting the documentation released, they're just
 making sure that what they release is actually correct for the products
 it covers.
> 
 It might make sense to get our "working group" together over the next
 few weeks, by which time the documentation should be available in 
 public
 form.
> 
 Are you interested in joining? :-)
> 
> 
 of course, but not until those docs are freed up. 
> 
> 
>>> We're getting there.  First manual to be released is the processor user
>>> guide.  More to follow, including register documentation, in around a week.
> 
>>> Users guide:
> 
>>> https://wiki.raptorcs.com/wiki/File:POWER9_um_OpenPOWER_v20GA_09APR2018_pub.pdf
> 
 Context: I've been trying for 2 years now to get OPAL released under
 dual gpl2 licensing with the current apache2 license, apache2 and gpl2
 are not compatible, so we'd be in a bit of a mess should we use OPAL
 code in coreboot, and it would be easiest if we were able to use some of
 that code.
> 
 The first response from IBM was "why do you think you need coreboot?" I
 worked through that, and there was agreement in the end it ought to
 happen, said agreement reached about 2 years ago. Stuff Would Happen, I
 was told. After that, silence.
> 
>>> We've reignited this.  It's underway. :-)
> 
 This is pretty much par for the course with Power. In 1990 I spent two
 years getting an agreement that would allow me to  get more 
 agreements. 
> 
>>> We've plowed through this already and are at the action point.  For the
>>> most part, just let me know what you need and I'll see if we can get it
>>> published.
> 
 So close doesn't count. Once I see the kind of docs I need to see, not
 requiring a clickwrap, and covering all aspects of every chip on your
 board, I'm in: I'll order a board. Until then, I can't really do much.
> 
>>> Is the NIC an issue?  There are several people working on REing the
>>> hardware with some great progress [1][2], but there's really no way to
>>> get Broadcom to ever release official documentation.  Everything else on
>>> the libre-friendly non-SAS version either has docs available or we are
>>> close to getting them published.
> 
 Thanks for your efforts on Power!
> 
>>> No problem!  We still consider Power the best path forward for powerful
>>> libre systems at this point, getting really tired of the other vendors
>>> actively working against efforts to create open firmware (this includes
>>> SiFive at this point).
> 
>>> Will keep you posted as we get more docs published online, but thought
>>> you and the others here might at least be interested in the users guide.
> 
 ron
> 
> 
> 
>>> [1] https://wiki.raptorcs.com/wiki/BCM5719
>>> [2] IRC discussions on #talos-workstation
> 
> 
> 

- -- 
Timothy Pearson
Raptor Engineering
+1 (415) 727-8645 (direct line)
+1 (512) 690-0200 (switchboard)
https://www.raptorengineering.com
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Re: [coreboot] POWER9 / Talos II coreboot support?

[Timothy Pearson]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256

Sorry, can't add todayit's a little over 6,000 pages of new
documentation.  Still, hardly light reading!

On 05/29/2018 03:39 PM, Timothy Pearson wrote:
> Register documentation was published today.  Links to the three volumes
> (over 7000 pages of documentation!)
> 
> https://wiki.raptorcs.com/wiki/File:POWER9_Registers_vol1_version1.1_pub.pdf
> 
> https://wiki.raptorcs.com/wiki/File:POWER9_Registers_vol2_version1.2_pub.pdf
> 
> https://wiki.raptorcs.com/wiki/File:POWER9_Registers_vol3_version1.2_pub.pdf
> 
> That leaves only the PHB documentation in process at this point.  Almost
> there
> 
> On 05/12/2018 02:34 AM, Timothy Pearson wrote:
>> On 05/03/2018 06:02 PM, ron minnich wrote:
> 
> 
>>> On Thu, May 3, 2018 at 1:20 PM Timothy Pearson
>>> mailto:tpear...@raptorengineering.com>>
>>> wrote:
> 
>>> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
>>> Hash: SHA256
> 
>>> I think I was being a bit pessimistic / too careful here.  We're close
>>> to getting the docs publicly released, but that doesn't help anyone
>>> wanting access right now, which is why I mentioned the other route.
>>> IBM's committed to getting the documentation released, they're just
>>> making sure that what they release is actually correct for the products
>>> it covers.
> 
>>> It might make sense to get our "working group" together over the next
>>> few weeks, by which time the documentation should be available in public
>>> form.
> 
>>> Are you interested in joining? :-)
> 
> 
>>> of course, but not until those docs are freed up. 
> 
> 
>> We're getting there.  First manual to be released is the processor user
>> guide.  More to follow, including register documentation, in around a week.
> 
>> Users guide:
> 
>> https://wiki.raptorcs.com/wiki/File:POWER9_um_OpenPOWER_v20GA_09APR2018_pub.pdf
> 
>>> Context: I've been trying for 2 years now to get OPAL released under
>>> dual gpl2 licensing with the current apache2 license, apache2 and gpl2
>>> are not compatible, so we'd be in a bit of a mess should we use OPAL
>>> code in coreboot, and it would be easiest if we were able to use some of
>>> that code.
> 
>>> The first response from IBM was "why do you think you need coreboot?" I
>>> worked through that, and there was agreement in the end it ought to
>>> happen, said agreement reached about 2 years ago. Stuff Would Happen, I
>>> was told. After that, silence.
> 
>> We've reignited this.  It's underway. :-)
> 
>>> This is pretty much par for the course with Power. In 1990 I spent two
>>> years getting an agreement that would allow me to  get more agreements. 
> 
>> We've plowed through this already and are at the action point.  For the
>> most part, just let me know what you need and I'll see if we can get it
>> published.
> 
>>> So close doesn't count. Once I see the kind of docs I need to see, not
>>> requiring a clickwrap, and covering all aspects of every chip on your
>>> board, I'm in: I'll order a board. Until then, I can't really do much.
> 
>> Is the NIC an issue?  There are several people working on REing the
>> hardware with some great progress [1][2], but there's really no way to
>> get Broadcom to ever release official documentation.  Everything else on
>> the libre-friendly non-SAS version either has docs available or we are
>> close to getting them published.
> 
>>> Thanks for your efforts on Power!
> 
>> No problem!  We still consider Power the best path forward for powerful
>> libre systems at this point, getting really tired of the other vendors
>> actively working against efforts to create open firmware (this includes
>> SiFive at this point).
> 
>> Will keep you posted as we get more docs published online, but thought
>> you and the others here might at least be interested in the users guide.
> 
>>> ron
> 
> 
> 
>> [1] https://wiki.raptorcs.com/wiki/BCM5719
>> [2] IRC discussions on #talos-workstation
> 
> 

- -- 
Timothy Pearson
Raptor Engineering
+1 (415) 727-8645 (direct line)
+1 (512) 690-0200 (switchboard)
https://www.raptorengineering.com
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Re: [coreboot] POWER9 / Talos II coreboot support?

[Timothy Pearson]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256

Register documentation was published today.  Links to the three volumes
(over 7000 pages of documentation!)

https://wiki.raptorcs.com/wiki/File:POWER9_Registers_vol1_version1.1_pub.pdf

https://wiki.raptorcs.com/wiki/File:POWER9_Registers_vol2_version1.2_pub.pdf

https://wiki.raptorcs.com/wiki/File:POWER9_Registers_vol3_version1.2_pub.pdf

That leaves only the PHB documentation in process at this point.  Almost
there

On 05/12/2018 02:34 AM, Timothy Pearson wrote:
> On 05/03/2018 06:02 PM, ron minnich wrote:
> 
> 
>> On Thu, May 3, 2018 at 1:20 PM Timothy Pearson
>> mailto:tpear...@raptorengineering.com>>
>> wrote:
> 
>> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
>> Hash: SHA256
> 
>> I think I was being a bit pessimistic / too careful here.  We're close
>> to getting the docs publicly released, but that doesn't help anyone
>> wanting access right now, which is why I mentioned the other route.
>> IBM's committed to getting the documentation released, they're just
>> making sure that what they release is actually correct for the products
>> it covers.
> 
>> It might make sense to get our "working group" together over the next
>> few weeks, by which time the documentation should be available in public
>> form.
> 
>> Are you interested in joining? :-)
> 
> 
>> of course, but not until those docs are freed up. 
> 
> 
> We're getting there.  First manual to be released is the processor user
> guide.  More to follow, including register documentation, in around a week.
> 
> Users guide:
> 
> https://wiki.raptorcs.com/wiki/File:POWER9_um_OpenPOWER_v20GA_09APR2018_pub.pdf
> 
>> Context: I've been trying for 2 years now to get OPAL released under
>> dual gpl2 licensing with the current apache2 license, apache2 and gpl2
>> are not compatible, so we'd be in a bit of a mess should we use OPAL
>> code in coreboot, and it would be easiest if we were able to use some of
>> that code.
> 
>> The first response from IBM was "why do you think you need coreboot?" I
>> worked through that, and there was agreement in the end it ought to
>> happen, said agreement reached about 2 years ago. Stuff Would Happen, I
>> was told. After that, silence.
> 
> We've reignited this.  It's underway. :-)
> 
>> This is pretty much par for the course with Power. In 1990 I spent two
>> years getting an agreement that would allow me to  get more agreements. 
> 
> We've plowed through this already and are at the action point.  For the
> most part, just let me know what you need and I'll see if we can get it
> published.
> 
>> So close doesn't count. Once I see the kind of docs I need to see, not
>> requiring a clickwrap, and covering all aspects of every chip on your
>> board, I'm in: I'll order a board. Until then, I can't really do much.
> 
> Is the NIC an issue?  There are several people working on REing the
> hardware with some great progress [1][2], but there's really no way to
> get Broadcom to ever release official documentation.  Everything else on
> the libre-friendly non-SAS version either has docs available or we are
> close to getting them published.
> 
>> Thanks for your efforts on Power!
> 
> No problem!  We still consider Power the best path forward for powerful
> libre systems at this point, getting really tired of the other vendors
> actively working against efforts to create open firmware (this includes
> SiFive at this point).
> 
> Will keep you posted as we get more docs published online, but thought
> you and the others here might at least be interested in the users guide.
> 
>> ron
> 
> 
> 
> [1] https://wiki.raptorcs.com/wiki/BCM5719
> [2] IRC discussions on #talos-workstation
> 

- -- 
Timothy Pearson
Raptor Engineering
+1 (415) 727-8645 (direct line)
+1 (512) 690-0200 (switchboard)
https://www.raptorengineering.com
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Re: [coreboot] POWER9 / Talos II coreboot support?

[Timothy Pearson]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256

On 05/03/2018 06:02 PM, ron minnich wrote:
> 
> 
> On Thu, May 3, 2018 at 1:20 PM Timothy Pearson
> >
> wrote:
> 
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA256
> 
> I think I was being a bit pessimistic / too careful here.  We're close
> to getting the docs publicly released, but that doesn't help anyone
> wanting access right now, which is why I mentioned the other route.
> IBM's committed to getting the documentation released, they're just
> making sure that what they release is actually correct for the products
> it covers.
> 
> It might make sense to get our "working group" together over the next
> few weeks, by which time the documentation should be available in public
> form.
> 
> Are you interested in joining? :-)
> 
> 
> of course, but not until those docs are freed up. 
> 

We're getting there.  First manual to be released is the processor user
guide.  More to follow, including register documentation, in around a week.

Users guide:

https://wiki.raptorcs.com/wiki/File:POWER9_um_OpenPOWER_v20GA_09APR2018_pub.pdf

> Context: I've been trying for 2 years now to get OPAL released under
> dual gpl2 licensing with the current apache2 license, apache2 and gpl2
> are not compatible, so we'd be in a bit of a mess should we use OPAL
> code in coreboot, and it would be easiest if we were able to use some of
> that code.
> 
> The first response from IBM was "why do you think you need coreboot?" I
> worked through that, and there was agreement in the end it ought to
> happen, said agreement reached about 2 years ago. Stuff Would Happen, I
> was told. After that, silence.

We've reignited this.  It's underway. :-)

> This is pretty much par for the course with Power. In 1990 I spent two
> years getting an agreement that would allow me to  get more agreements. 

We've plowed through this already and are at the action point.  For the
most part, just let me know what you need and I'll see if we can get it
published.

> So close doesn't count. Once I see the kind of docs I need to see, not
> requiring a clickwrap, and covering all aspects of every chip on your
> board, I'm in: I'll order a board. Until then, I can't really do much.

Is the NIC an issue?  There are several people working on REing the
hardware with some great progress [1][2], but there's really no way to
get Broadcom to ever release official documentation.  Everything else on
the libre-friendly non-SAS version either has docs available or we are
close to getting them published.

> Thanks for your efforts on Power!

No problem!  We still consider Power the best path forward for powerful
libre systems at this point, getting really tired of the other vendors
actively working against efforts to create open firmware (this includes
SiFive at this point).

Will keep you posted as we get more docs published online, but thought
you and the others here might at least be interested in the users guide.

> ron
> 
>  

[1] https://wiki.raptorcs.com/wiki/BCM5719
[2] IRC discussions on #talos-workstation

- -- 
Timothy Pearson
Raptor Engineering
+1 (415) 727-8645 (direct line)
+1 (512) 690-0200 (switchboard)
https://www.raptorengineering.com
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Re: [coreboot] POWER9 / Talos II coreboot support?

[Timothy Pearson]

On 05/03/2018 06:02 PM, ron minnich wrote:
> 
> 
> On Thu, May 3, 2018 at 1:20 PM Timothy Pearson
> >
> wrote:
> 
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA256
> 
> I think I was being a bit pessimistic / too careful here.  We're close
> to getting the docs publicly released, but that doesn't help anyone
> wanting access right now, which is why I mentioned the other route.
> IBM's committed to getting the documentation released, they're just
> making sure that what they release is actually correct for the products
> it covers.
> 
> It might make sense to get our "working group" together over the next
> few weeks, by which time the documentation should be available in public
> form.
> 
> Are you interested in joining? :-)
> 
> 
> of course, but not until those docs are freed up. 
> 
> Context: I've been trying for 2 years now to get OPAL released under
> dual gpl2 licensing with the current apache2 license, apache2 and gpl2
> are not compatible, so we'd be in a bit of a mess should we use OPAL
> code in coreboot, and it would be easiest if we were able to use some of
> that code.
> 
> The first response from IBM was "why do you think you need coreboot?" I
> worked through that, and there was agreement in the end it ought to
> happen, said agreement reached about 2 years ago. Stuff Would Happen, I
> was told. After that, silence.
> 
> This is pretty much par for the course with Power. In 1990 I spent two
> years getting an agreement that would allow me to  get more agreements. 
> 
> So close doesn't count. Once I see the kind of docs I need to see, not
> requiring a clickwrap, and covering all aspects of every chip on your
> board, I'm in: I'll order a board. Until then, I can't really do much.
> 
> Thanks for your efforts on Power!
> 
> ron
> 
>  

Fully understood.  I have a fairly detailed view into what happened
after the events you mention, but less so before.  Sometime we should
meet up and figure out the entire timeline of just what went wrong and
how it's being fixed (slowly).

FWIW the docs are going to happen; when they are up I'll send another
Email here. :-)

-- 
Timothy Pearson
Raptor Engineering
+1 (415) 727-8645 (direct line)
+1 (512) 690-0200 (switchboard)
https://www.raptorengineering.com

-- 
coreboot mailing list: coreboot@coreboot.org
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Re: [coreboot] POWER9 / Talos II coreboot support?

[ron minnich]

On Thu, May 3, 2018 at 1:20 PM Timothy Pearson <
tpear...@raptorengineering.com> wrote:

> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA256
>
> I think I was being a bit pessimistic / too careful here.  We're close
> to getting the docs publicly released, but that doesn't help anyone
> wanting access right now, which is why I mentioned the other route.
> IBM's committed to getting the documentation released, they're just
> making sure that what they release is actually correct for the products
> it covers.
>
> It might make sense to get our "working group" together over the next
> few weeks, by which time the documentation should be available in public
> form.
>
> Are you interested in joining? :-)
>
>
of course, but not until those docs are freed up.

Context: I've been trying for 2 years now to get OPAL released under dual
gpl2 licensing with the current apache2 license, apache2 and gpl2 are not
compatible, so we'd be in a bit of a mess should we use OPAL code in
coreboot, and it would be easiest if we were able to use some of that code.

The first response from IBM was "why do you think you need coreboot?" I
worked through that, and there was agreement in the end it ought to happen,
said agreement reached about 2 years ago. Stuff Would Happen, I was told.
After that, silence.

This is pretty much par for the course with Power. In 1990 I spent two
years getting an agreement that would allow me to  get more agreements.

So close doesn't count. Once I see the kind of docs I need to see, not
requiring a clickwrap, and covering all aspects of every chip on your
board, I'm in: I'll order a board. Until then, I can't really do much.

Thanks for your efforts on Power!

ron
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Re: [coreboot] POWER9 / Talos II coreboot support?

[Timothy Pearson]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256

I think I was being a bit pessimistic / too careful here.  We're close
to getting the docs publicly released, but that doesn't help anyone
wanting access right now, which is why I mentioned the other route.
IBM's committed to getting the documentation released, they're just
making sure that what they release is actually correct for the products
it covers.

It might make sense to get our "working group" together over the next
few weeks, by which time the documentation should be available in public
form.

Are you interested in joining? :-)

On 05/03/2018 11:40 AM, ron minnich wrote:
> "There is no legal issue that we are aware of with using them to develop
> a libre firmware solution like coreboot; IBM just doesn't want the
> detailed register manuals distributed verbatim online at this time."
> 
> 
> This is worrisome. Intel docs used to be the same way in 1999, otherwise
> LinuxBIOS might never have happened. Then the walls were built. I've
> worked with IBM Power off and on for 30+ years. IBM can give, and IBM
> has in the past taken away, and it's caused real trouble for projects
> I've worked on.
> 
> I think we need a clear statement on distribution policies for Power
> docs. "There is no legal issue that we are aware of" is not enough. I
> don't want to find out in two years that this information is now locked
> down.
> 
> This has been my continuing problem with Power, and it's why I've
> focused more on RISC-V. There's just too much uncertainty from the Open
> Power organization. With luck you can fix it, but it needs to be fixed.
> 
> ron
> 
> On Thu, May 3, 2018 at 5:48 AM <eche...@free.fr
> <mailto:eche...@free.fr>> wrote:
> 
> +1
> Same for me, I would gladly help with the port of coreboot to Talos
> II (even if I am not a coreboot expert, I do have some background in
> firmware development..), but there are 2 problems :
>  - the time : I will be able to spend my free time on coreboot
> development again only after june 2018;
>  - the monies : I have no financial resources right now to pay
> myself a Talos development platform (4000$ is expensive.. and also I
> live in Europe and I'm concerned with the shipment of a so large and
> fragile item from US to Europe)
> I will attend the coreboot conference in september and like Jonathan
> said, I'm really interested by a POWER9 session at this conference.
> Best regards,
>  Florentin Demetrescu
> 
> 
> - Mail d'origine -
> De: Jonathan Neuschäfer <j.neuschae...@gmx.net
> <mailto:j.neuschae...@gmx.net>>
> À: Timothy Pearson <tpear...@raptorengineering.com
> <mailto:tpear...@raptorengineering.com>>
> Cc: Kyösti Mälkki <kyosti.mal...@gmail.com
> <mailto:kyosti.mal...@gmail.com>>, Coreboot <coreboot@coreboot.org
> <mailto:coreboot@coreboot.org>>
> Envoyé: Thu, 03 May 2018 14:06:22 +0200 (CEST)
> Objet: Re: [coreboot] POWER9 / Talos II coreboot support?
> 
> On Thu, May 03, 2018 at 06:32:29AM -0500, Timothy Pearson wrote:
> > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> > Hash: SHA256
> >
> > On 05/03/2018 03:44 AM, Kyösti Mälkki wrote:
> > > On Wed, May 2, 2018 at 9:22 PM, Timothy Pearson
> > > <tpear...@raptorengineering.com
> <mailto:tpear...@raptorengineering.com>> wrote:
> > >> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> > >> Hash: SHA256
> > >>
> > >> We've been kicking around the idea for some time of getting a
> coreboot
> > >> port to the POWER9 Talos II systems going.  We don't have the
> resources
> > >> available / free at the moment to work on this independently,
> but it
> > >> might be possible to get something going if there are other
> community
> > >> members interested in helping out.
> > >
> > > Count me in, I am getting sick and tired of x86 vendors ;)
> > >
> > > Kyösti
> >
> > Sounds great, glad to have you on board!  Any other volunteers?
> 
> I am interested, but I can't commit time to this at the moment.
> 
> Is there going to be a POWER9 session at the Open Source Firmware
> Conference[1] in September? I'd be happy to attend.
> 
> 
> Jonathan Neuschäfer
> 
> [1]: https://osfc.io/
> 
> 
> -- 
> coreboot mailing list: coreboot@coreboot.org
> <mailto:coreboot@coreboot.org>
> https://mail.coreboot.org/mailman/listinfo/coreboot
&

Re: [coreboot] POWER9 / Talos II coreboot support?

[ron minnich]

"There is no legal issue that we are aware of with using them to develop
a libre firmware solution like coreboot; IBM just doesn't want the
detailed register manuals distributed verbatim online at this time."


This is worrisome. Intel docs used to be the same way in 1999, otherwise
LinuxBIOS might never have happened. Then the walls were built. I've worked
with IBM Power off and on for 30+ years. IBM can give, and IBM has in the
past taken away, and it's caused real trouble for projects I've worked on.

I think we need a clear statement on distribution policies for Power
docs. "There
is no legal issue that we are aware of" is not enough. I don't want to find
out in two years that this information is now locked down.

This has been my continuing problem with Power, and it's why I've focused
more on RISC-V. There's just too much uncertainty from the Open Power
organization. With luck you can fix it, but it needs to be fixed.

ron

On Thu, May 3, 2018 at 5:48 AM <eche...@free.fr> wrote:

> +1
> Same for me, I would gladly help with the port of coreboot to Talos II
> (even if I am not a coreboot expert, I do have some background in firmware
> development..), but there are 2 problems :
>  - the time : I will be able to spend my free time on coreboot development
> again only after june 2018;
>  - the monies : I have no financial resources right now to pay myself a
> Talos development platform (4000$ is expensive.. and also I live in Europe
> and I'm concerned with the shipment of a so large and fragile item from US
> to Europe)
> I will attend the coreboot conference in september and like Jonathan said,
> I'm really interested by a POWER9 session at this conference.
> Best regards,
>  Florentin Demetrescu
>
>
> - Mail d'origine -
> De: Jonathan Neuschäfer <j.neuschae...@gmx.net>
> À: Timothy Pearson <tpear...@raptorengineering.com>
> Cc: Kyösti Mälkki <kyosti.mal...@gmail.com>, Coreboot <
> coreboot@coreboot.org>
> Envoyé: Thu, 03 May 2018 14:06:22 +0200 (CEST)
> Objet: Re: [coreboot] POWER9 / Talos II coreboot support?
>
> On Thu, May 03, 2018 at 06:32:29AM -0500, Timothy Pearson wrote:
> > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> > Hash: SHA256
> >
> > On 05/03/2018 03:44 AM, Kyösti Mälkki wrote:
> > > On Wed, May 2, 2018 at 9:22 PM, Timothy Pearson
> > > <tpear...@raptorengineering.com> wrote:
> > >> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> > >> Hash: SHA256
> > >>
> > >> We've been kicking around the idea for some time of getting a coreboot
> > >> port to the POWER9 Talos II systems going.  We don't have the
> resources
> > >> available / free at the moment to work on this independently, but it
> > >> might be possible to get something going if there are other community
> > >> members interested in helping out.
> > >
> > > Count me in, I am getting sick and tired of x86 vendors ;)
> > >
> > > Kyösti
> >
> > Sounds great, glad to have you on board!  Any other volunteers?
>
> I am interested, but I can't commit time to this at the moment.
>
> Is there going to be a POWER9 session at the Open Source Firmware
> Conference[1] in September? I'd be happy to attend.
>
>
> Jonathan Neuschäfer
>
> [1]: https://osfc.io/
>
>
> --
> coreboot mailing list: coreboot@coreboot.org
> https://mail.coreboot.org/mailman/listinfo/coreboot
-- 
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Re: [coreboot] POWER9 / Talos II coreboot support?

[echelon]

+1
Same for me, I would gladly help with the port of coreboot to Talos II (even if 
I am not a coreboot expert, I do have some background in firmware 
development..), but there are 2 problems :
 - the time : I will be able to spend my free time on coreboot development 
again only after june 2018;
 - the monies : I have no financial resources right now to pay myself a Talos 
development platform (4000$ is expensive.. and also I live in Europe and I'm 
concerned with the shipment of a so large and fragile item from US to Europe)
I will attend the coreboot conference in september and like Jonathan said, I'm 
really interested by a POWER9 session at this conference.
Best regards,
 Florentin Demetrescu


- Mail d'origine -
De: Jonathan Neuschäfer <j.neuschae...@gmx.net>
À: Timothy Pearson <tpear...@raptorengineering.com>
Cc: Kyösti Mälkki <kyosti.mal...@gmail.com>, Coreboot <coreboot@coreboot.org>
Envoyé: Thu, 03 May 2018 14:06:22 +0200 (CEST)
Objet: Re: [coreboot] POWER9 / Talos II coreboot support?

On Thu, May 03, 2018 at 06:32:29AM -0500, Timothy Pearson wrote:
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA256
> 
> On 05/03/2018 03:44 AM, Kyösti Mälkki wrote:
> > On Wed, May 2, 2018 at 9:22 PM, Timothy Pearson
> > <tpear...@raptorengineering.com> wrote:
> >> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> >> Hash: SHA256
> >>
> >> We've been kicking around the idea for some time of getting a coreboot
> >> port to the POWER9 Talos II systems going.  We don't have the resources
> >> available / free at the moment to work on this independently, but it
> >> might be possible to get something going if there are other community
> >> members interested in helping out.
> >
> > Count me in, I am getting sick and tired of x86 vendors ;)
> >
> > Kyösti
> 
> Sounds great, glad to have you on board!  Any other volunteers?

I am interested, but I can't commit time to this at the moment.

Is there going to be a POWER9 session at the Open Source Firmware
Conference[1] in September? I'd be happy to attend.


Jonathan Neuschäfer

[1]: https://osfc.io/


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Re: [coreboot] POWER9 / Talos II coreboot support?

[Jonathan Neuschäfer]

On Thu, May 03, 2018 at 06:32:29AM -0500, Timothy Pearson wrote:
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA256
> 
> On 05/03/2018 03:44 AM, Kyösti Mälkki wrote:
> > On Wed, May 2, 2018 at 9:22 PM, Timothy Pearson
> >  wrote:
> >> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> >> Hash: SHA256
> >>
> >> We've been kicking around the idea for some time of getting a coreboot
> >> port to the POWER9 Talos II systems going.  We don't have the resources
> >> available / free at the moment to work on this independently, but it
> >> might be possible to get something going if there are other community
> >> members interested in helping out.
> >
> > Count me in, I am getting sick and tired of x86 vendors ;)
> >
> > Kyösti
> 
> Sounds great, glad to have you on board!  Any other volunteers?

I am interested, but I can't commit time to this at the moment.

Is there going to be a POWER9 session at the Open Source Firmware
Conference[1] in September? I'd be happy to attend.


Jonathan Neuschäfer

[1]: https://osfc.io/


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Re: [coreboot] POWER9 / Talos II coreboot support?

[Timothy Pearson]

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On 05/03/2018 03:44 AM, Kyösti Mälkki wrote:
> On Wed, May 2, 2018 at 9:22 PM, Timothy Pearson
>  wrote:
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>>
>> We've been kicking around the idea for some time of getting a coreboot
>> port to the POWER9 Talos II systems going.  We don't have the resources
>> available / free at the moment to work on this independently, but it
>> might be possible to get something going if there are other community
>> members interested in helping out.
>
> Count me in, I am getting sick and tired of x86 vendors ;)
>
> Kyösti

Sounds great, glad to have you on board!  Any other volunteers?

I've created a Wiki page where we can start tracking at least what needs
to be done, and most importantly start documenting the various chunks of
hardware that coreboot needs to set up [1].  It's preloaded with what I
am sure is a very optimistic list of tasks; contributions are welcome as
we iron out exactly what is involved here.

I'd like to see what kind of manpower we can attract on-list here, then
schedule some meetings around the best approach to the initial bringup.
 We can also figure out how to handle getting hardware access to the
various folks involved.  I don't know how much of the initial work is
more practical in e.g. qemu versus on bare metal, given the complexity
of some of the existing firmware stage handoffs.  At minimum we should
start documenting the entry and exit interfaces between
SBE<-->coreboot<-->skiboot, along with expected processor state at
entry/exit, to see what we're getting involved in.

On the plus side we have direct access to LPC via the nest, and a BMC
that receives LPC accesses including serial and port 80 traffic.  This
should make debugging fairly easy, once enough of a bootblock has been
written to take over from the SBE and initialize enough of the nest to
get LPC online.  POWER9 doesn't have the concept of I/O space, so the
LPC access is all handled via MMIO reads and writes to a specific set of
addresses in the nest itself.

There's a sizeable chunk of register documentation available on the
OpenPOWER portal, although I think the detailed register manuals need an
IBM account (freely available) and possibly a (free) OpenPOWER signup.
There is no legal issue that we are aware of with using them to develop
a libre firmware solution like coreboot; IBM just doesn't want the
detailed register manuals distributed verbatim online at this time.

Let's make this happen!

[1] https://wiki.raptorcs.com/wiki/Coreboot/ToDo

- -- 
Timothy Pearson
Raptor Engineering
+1 (415) 727-8645 (direct line)
+1 (512) 690-0200 (switchboard)
https://www.raptorengineering.com
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[coreboot] POWER9 / Talos II coreboot support?

[Timothy Pearson]

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We've been kicking around the idea for some time of getting a coreboot
port to the POWER9 Talos II systems going.  We don't have the resources
available / free at the moment to work on this independently, but it
might be possible to get something going if there are other community
members interested in helping out.

In a nutshell, Talos II is a completely owner controllable machine that
is in the same general performance class as AMD and Intel [1].  We
provide all of the data needed to create a port, including the
schematics, with each system sold.  We can also offer direct assistance
and access to hardware for contributors to this project at no charge.

The motivation for this port is to clean up the "IPL" (Initial Program
Load) process.  Right now a chunk of open software called hostboot runs
FSP routines on the main processor.  This is slow and very bloated
compared to how coreboot does things.  We'd like to replace hostboot
with coreboot, keeping for now the initial SBE and later skiboot
software intact.

There are several challenges with a project of this magnitude.  While
the SBE brings up the basic CAR and loads hostboot into the CAR space,
the processors are completely uninitialized beyond that point.
Documentation is scarce, not because it is restricted per se, but mostly
because the FSP routines are the main documentation.  There is no
simulator available for working on hostboot, either, and the initial
POWER8 toolchain work still needs to be updated for POWER9 as well.

Advantages to the project include showing that coreboot, or more
specifically a completely open, blob-free coreboot, can actually start a
modern platform, essentially proving that the concept of an open
coreboot remains viable given vendor cooperation.  Being able to shave a
significant amount of time out of the IPL would also show that
coreboot's model provides advantages over a more standard vendor flow.

Is anyone interested in signing on for a long term project of this size?

[1] https://raptorcs.com/TALOSII/

- -- 
Timothy Pearson
Raptor Engineering
+1 (415) 727-8645 (direct line)
+1 (512) 690-0200 (switchboard)
https://www.raptorengineering.com
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