Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] Passing on of Tenancies

[Rick Smoll via CoTyroneList]

Hello Elwyn
Both you and Peter are addressing lease issues pertaining to the circumstances 
around the death of the landowner (which is interesting info for certain); I am 
wondering though if you have come across any information as to how the lease 
was legally passed on from generation to generation within a family under 
normal circumstances (in the case of my family for at least five generations). 
I've had no luck searching.
Thanks again

  Rick Smoll


-Original Message-
From: elwyn soutter 
To: CoTyroneIreland.com Mailing List 
Cc: Rick Smoll ; Peter McKittrick 
Sent: Mon, Jun 29, 2020 4:24 am
Subject: Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] Passing on of Tenancies

Regarding “reps of” cases, it was commonfor there to be significant delays in 
winding up of some estates. That could bea combination of slow or ineffective 
executors or it could be because therewere disputes or other legal matters 
which delayed things.  As a random search, I went to the PRONIwills website and 
looked for people who died between 1858 and 1862 but whoseestates were not 
granted probate until between 1890 and 1900. There are 36 suchcases.  So it 
took up to 32 years forprobate to be granted in a fairly significant number of 
cases. And until thatwas done the executors had control over lease renewal etc. 
So any propertytransactions relating to those estates would have “reps of” for 
many manyyears. (It wasn’t a dodge to avoid a new lease, as Peter suggests. It 
was justthat the owner was dead but the property had not yet been passed on 
formally tothe person who had inherited it. So the person with temporary 
jurisdiction, andlandlord, was the executor(s). Here’s a William Bradley who 
died in 1877.Probate was finally granted in 1940. Just a slight delay of 63 
years. (The estate was valued at a whopping £25). Bradley William of Drumard 
county Tyrone farmer died 26 January1877 Administration W/A Londonderry 13 
September to Enoch Bradley farmer.Effects £25. Probate: 13 September 1940. On 
many of the lengthy delay cases you will find the letters“d.b.n” in the probate 
abstract. DBN is short for “De bonis non” a term used bythe Probate Court when 
dealing with estates where the original executor(s) didnot fulfil their 
obligations to the deceased, perhaps because they wereoverseas or even dead 
themselves, and no-one else took any action to resolvethings.   Elwyn
On Mon, 29 Jun 2020 at 07:25, Peter McKittrick via CoTyroneList 
 wrote:

Hi Rick, you asked for an example of "Representatives of [Name] being listed in 
relation to tenancies. The example I’ve seen is when the Altmore Estate was 
auctioned in 1872 and the sale prospectus listed all the existing lease 
agreements including one over an Altmore property i.n.o. Robert McKittrick 
where the Tenants Names are recorded as "Representatives of Robert McKittrick". 
This document is available on subscription through Find My Past Landed Estates 
Court Rentals1850-1885. By 1860 and Griffith, Robert’s son John (don’t think he 
was the eldest) is in Occupation of the property and by 1869 Robert had died, 
but in 1872 the lease agreement with Reps of Robert McKittrick was still being 
relied upon.

Regards

Peter McKittrick

> On 28 Jun 2020, at 8:33 am, Peter McKittrick  wrote:
> 
> Rick, good topic. The only thing I’ve noticed is that the lessee is sometimes 
> described as “Representatives of.“ May be to avoid having to draw up a 
> new lease until it was absolutely necessary say when the lessor changed.
> 
> Peter
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On 28 Jun 2020, at 6:20 am, Rick Smoll via CoTyroneList 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Hello all …I've been having difficulty finding information concerning how 
>> tenancy was passed along from generation to generation on the plantation 
>> farms. What was the legal framework for inheriting the lease on the farm 
>> that the family had been occupying … in our case for at least 150 years 
>> prior to the land acts at the end of the 19th century? Hoping somebody might 
>> be able to steer me somewhere on this issue.
>> Also, any insight on how a decision was made within a family regarding which 
>> son (or daughter) would assume responsibility for the lease?
>> Thanks, as always …
>> Rick Smoll
>> 
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: elwyn soutter 
>> To: James McKane 
>> Cc: Rick Smoll ; CoTyroneIreland.com Mailing List 
>> 
>> Sent: Thu, Jun 11, 2020 8:21 pm
>> Subject: Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] Morrison Family Name in Ulster 1610 - 1633
>> 
>> Rick, Ballyboe is from the Irish words “Baile bo”meaning “cow land.” 
>> According to Philip Robinson - “The Plantation of Ulster”,a ballyboe was “A 
>> small Irish land division which, before the plantation,represented the 
>> territory within which several families worked the land.Although 

Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] Morrison Family Name in Ulster 1610 - 1633

[Rick Smoll via CoTyroneList]

I just found an article at JSTOR entitled Primogeniture and Ultimogeniture in 
Rural Ireland. It seems there was some of both.Here's a brief excerpt:
"… there was no fixed rule or norm: the father simply chose among his sons the 
one most likely to become a successful farmer and other members of the family 
then acquiesced in the matter.
However, there was also tradition that it would go to the eldest son.
In the case of my Morrisons in Loughterush, I must assume that it was most 
typically the former, since the family managed to hang on to the leasehold for 
so many generations.


  Rick Smoll
 

-Original Message-
From: Don Chambers 
To: CoTyroneIreland.com Mailing List ; Rick 
Smoll 
Cc: Peter McKittrick 
Sent: Sat, Jun 27, 2020 8:50 pm
Subject: Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] Morrison Family Name in Ulster 1610 - 1633

Wasn't the lease passed by the rules of primogeniture to the first born son?

On 6/27/2020 3:33 PM, Peter McKittrick via CoTyroneList wrote:
> Rick, good topic. The only thing I’ve noticed is that the lessee is sometimes 
> described as “Representatives of.“ May be to avoid having to draw up a 
> new lease until it was absolutely necessary say when the lessor changed.
>
> Peter
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On 28 Jun 2020, at 6:20 am, Rick Smoll via CoTyroneList 
>>  wrote:
>>
>> Hello all …I've been having difficulty finding information concerning how 
>> tenancy was passed along from generation to generation on the plantation 
>> farms. What was the legal framework for inheriting the lease on the farm 
>> that the family had been occupying … in our case for at least 150 years 
>> prior to the land acts at the end of the 19th century? Hoping somebody might 
>> be able to steer me somewhere on this issue.
>> Also, any insight on how a decision was made within a family regarding which 
>> son (or daughter) would assume responsibility for the lease?
>> Thanks, as always …
>>  Rick Smoll
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: elwyn soutter 
>> To: James McKane 
>> Cc: Rick Smoll ; CoTyroneIreland.com Mailing List 
>> 
>> Sent: Thu, Jun 11, 2020 8:21 pm
>> Subject: Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] Morrison Family Name in Ulster 1610 - 1633
>>
>> Rick, Ballyboe is from the Irish words “Baile bo”meaning “cow land.” 
>> According to Philip Robinson - “The Plantation of Ulster”,a ballyboe was “A 
>> small Irish land division which, before the plantation,represented the 
>> territory within which several families worked the land.Although the real 
>> area of the ballyboe varied greatly with the quality of theland, it was 
>> assumed by the plantation surveyors to contain 60 acres ofprofitable land in 
>> most areas of north-west Ulster. Many modern townlands haveevolved from 
>> these ballyboes.” Not all land in Ireland was requisitionedby the Crown at 
>> the time of the Plantation. At least a third remained in thehands of local 
>> Irish landlords, normally provided they agreed to be loyal tothe Crown.  An 
>> obvious example would bethe Maguires who had lands in Fermanagh. Chunks of 
>> land were declared forfeitfollowing the 1641 uprising and reallocated. 
>> Details in the Down survey: 
>> http://downsurvey.tcd.ie/down-survey-maps.phpRobinson spends some time 
>> discussing theorigins of settler names in Tyrone, and to what extent 
>> Scottish undertakers hadScots tenants, and English undertakers had English 
>> tenants. The implicationbeing that they originated in their landlords 
>> respective estates. However therewas evidently a lot of mixing. For example 
>> on p122 he says:  The evidence of Scots settling outsidetheir allocated 
>> baronies of Strabane and Mountjoy is supplemented by a statementof Lord 
>> Audley’s in 1614 when he claimed that his estate of Finagh and Rarone 
>> inOmagh barony had as many Scots as English in it. Although there is 
>> considerable degree ofcontinuity between 1630 and 1666 in the distributional 
>> pattern of Britishsettlement, and indeed in the persistence of English and 
>> Scottish localities,the actual surnames on most estates did change 
>> dramatically. This turnover ofpersonnel cannot be attributed simply to the 
>> ravages of the 1641 rebellion, forcomparable changes can be observed between 
>> 1622 and 1630. A high degree oftenant mobility is a striking characteristic 
>> of plantation settlement, despitethe continuity of settlement patterns.” He 
>> goes on to discuss colonial spread. “In1622 the percentage of Scots on any 
>> Tyrone estate was closely related towhether or not the estate was Scottish 
>> owned, and only marginally related tothe physical distance from Londo

Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] Morrison Family Name in Ulster 1610 - 1633

[Rick Smoll via CoTyroneList]

 | Loughterush | Sloy Manor, Kilskerry 1826
 |



Jim McKane
Kitchener, Ontario

On Thu, Jun 11, 2020 at 5:02 PM Rick Smoll via CoTyroneList 
 wrote:

I located a copy of the 1654-1656 Civil Survey that covers the townland of 
Loughterush in Kilskeery Parish … this obviously does not list the tenants 
names, only the owner … but there is interesting information there that for me 
begs some questions that perhaps some of you could help me with. I have 
attached the top page with the header that describes the area and names the 
owner, and then the page that lists Laghterish (older spelling or misspelling 
of Loughterush) among the townlands in his possession.
Questions:1. Is there any reason to have confidence that Col. Audley Mervin  
would have been the one to have brought the Morrisons over to Loughterush? 2. 
Were all of the lands of Ulster apportioned out in the time frame around 1610, 
or did it take a longer period of time (ie, could Mervin have been granted his 
land after 1630?) He was also listed among those who came to the aid of 
Londonderry during the siege by James II in 1690, so he was not likely an 
original grantee in 1610.3.The total acreage for the townlands of Lisnahanna, 
Loughterush, and Derryvokenan (?) is listed as 65 acres … there is obviously a 
lot more than 65 acres there (even Irish acres) ; the Morrison farm alone was 
about 40-50 acres … could that be referring to only the amount of acreage under 
cultivation?
Other items of interest: … I now know what a Balliboe is.
… Based on the note in the left column of the first page, Audley was apparently 
among those protestant royalists who were penalized by Cromwell with the 
settlement act of 1652.

  Rick Smoll 

-Original Message-
From: elwyn soutter 
To: CoTyroneIreland.com Mailing List 
Cc: rsmoll999 
Sent: Thu, May 21, 2020 9:27 pm
Subject: Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] Morrison Family Name in Ulster 1610 - 1633

Rick, The surname, the general location and thefamily denomination all point to 
them being settlers who probably arrived inIreland in the 1600s. MacLysaght’s 
surnames of Ireland describesMorrison as  “an English name numerous inUlster.” 
The location ie Tyrone, is a county heavily settled by Scots  in that 
period, and the family denomination (Methodist in 1901) alsopoints to them 
being incomers. (They would almost certainly have been Church ofIreland – ie 
Anglican- in earlier times, prior to Methodism’s arrival inIreland).  So in 
effect you have 3pointers to them being of settler origins. The Muster Rolls c 
1630 show a number ofMorrisons in Ireland, and one in Tyrone, but none in the 
Barony of Omagh East(which includes Loughterush) so that points to a post 1630 
arrival in theLoughterush area, if not in Ireland. It’s very rare to find any 
documentationfor the 1600s, unless you were an Undertaker or major land owner, 
or had landforfeit after the 1641 rebellion.  Theearliest likely records might 
be in the Registry of Deeds which start around1709. If the family registered a 
lease or other significant document, thatsometimes gives you a date. Failing 
that, church records may help. KilskeeryChurch of Ireland records start in 1767 
so you might find them there. For somepeople the tithe applotment records in 
the late 1820s/early 1830s are often theearliest records to be found.   I 
searched the PRONI e-catalogue but see nomention there of Morrison in 
Loughterush other than in the tithes in 1826.There were no comprehensive 
records of when people first acquired land. Formost 17th century settlers, the 
first 150 years or so of their timein Ireland are lost in the mists of time. 
Elwyn
On Fri, 22 May 2020 at 03:06, rsmoll999 via CoTyroneList 
 wrote:

Peter  ... thanks for responding  ... the links you sent are not working for 
me. I'll do some more hunting for those sites.Sent from my Sprint Samsung 
Galaxy S9.
 Original message From: Peter McKittrick via CoTyroneList 
 Date: 5/21/20  8:43 PM  (GMT-06:00) To: 
"CoTyroneIreland.com Mailing List"  Cc: Peter 
McKittrick  Subject: [CoTyroneMailingList] Morrison 
Family Name in Ulster 1610 - 1633 A past Genealogical Society of Victoria 
(Australia) handout indicates that Morrison appears in Scottish names in 
Tyrone, 1610-1633 based on muster rolls and estate maps.Sources:             
Brian Orr, Plantation of Ireland and the Ulster Scots published on 
http://www.irishclans.com/ <http://www.irishclans.com/>                      
Gwen Rawlings-Barry, The Ulster Plantation (1605-1697) published on 
http://www.canadasulsterscots.tripod.com/ 
<http://www.canadasulsterscots.tripod.com/> (website not found).Peter 
McKittrick> On 22 May 2020, at 10:23 am, Gordon Wilkinson via CoTyroneList 
 wrote:> > Rick, My guess is that they could 
have been part of the plantation of Ulster in the 17thC. I suspect(based on my 
surname) that my ancestors may have been part of that event too but have not 
been able to find any records of who a

Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] CoTyroneIreland.com - New Content - Morrison Family Notes, Co. Londonderry, Northern Ireland 1830-70

[Rick Smoll via CoTyroneList]

Thank you Len!!!

  Rick SmollPH: (512) 619-3860 

-Original Message-
From: Jim McKane via CoTyroneList 
To: CoTyroneIreland.com Mailing List 
Cc: Jim McKane 
Sent: Fri, Jun 19, 2020 6:40 am
Subject: [CoTyroneMailingList] CoTyroneIreland.com - New Content - Morrison 
Family Notes, Co. Londonderry, Northern Ireland 1830-70

Morrison Family Notes, Co. Londonderry, Northern Ireland 1830-70


Thanks again to Len Swindley for another great addition to CTI!

Jim McKane
Kitchener, Ontario
___
CoTyroneList Mailing List
Mailing List Email Address: CoTyroneList@cotyroneireland.com
Change Your Preferences: 
http://cotyroneireland.com/mailman/listinfo/cotyronelist_cotyroneireland.com
Mailing List Archive: https://goo.gl/mQCKrY
___
CoTyroneList Mailing List
Mailing List Email Address: CoTyroneList@cotyroneireland.com
Change Your Preferences: 
http://cotyroneireland.com/mailman/listinfo/cotyronelist_cotyroneireland.com
Mailing List Archive: https://goo.gl/mQCKrY

[CoTyroneMailingList] New Content - Townland Records

[Rick Smoll via CoTyroneList]

My Morrison ancestors occupied a farm in the Loughterush townland (Kilskeery 
Parish) from at least the mid 1700s until 1970 when the last Morrison on the 
farm passed away (he was a bachelor), and the farm was sold at public auction. 
The earliest ancestor I have found records for was Edward Morrison, and the 
earliest reference to Loughterush was with the birth of a daughter of his in 
1781. 
My question is: Is there a way to find out when the Morrisons first came to 
occupy the farm in Loughterush?
Thank you for any help on this.

  Rick Smoll
___
CoTyroneList Mailing List
Mailing List Email Address: CoTyroneList@cotyroneireland.com
Change Your Preferences: 
http://cotyroneireland.com/mailman/listinfo/cotyronelist_cotyroneireland.com
Mailing List Archive: https://goo.gl/mQCKrY

Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] Irish Bally---ony

[Rick Smoll via CoTyroneList]

Love that "Paper never refuses ink …" Very applicable today with revision: 
"The internet never refuses a keystroke …"   Rick Smoll  -Original 
Message-
From: Ron McCoy via CoTyroneList 
To: Gordon Wilkinson via CoTyroneList 
Cc: Ron McCoy 
Sent: Mon, Jan 14, 2019 6:13 am
Subject: Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] Irish Bally---ony

My mom and dad used folk expressions liberally, my mom being more guilty then 
my dad but by far the greatest offender was my neighbour who was a wealth of 
folk expressions. She is now gone and sadly her expressions have not been 
recorded but I am sure would have filled volumes. These I believe were handed 
down generation after generation. One of my favorites was used to deflate my 
budding but inflated educational ego. I would be explaining to her some great 
scientific break through I had just learned at school and she would look at me 
with kind but skeptical eyes and say, " how do you know that." and I would say 
I read it in a text book to which she would simply reply, " Ah well, Paper 
never refuses ink. Now does it?" On the same vein my father would simply say to 
me ," Do you know that for a fact Mr. McCoy or did some one just tell you 
that?" When it was said with that deep and melodic Ottawa Valley accent which 
was in reality a Northern Ireland lilt one could not be truly offended. I heard 
these expressions and so many more oft repeated as a child and a young person 
growing up and sadly I took them for granted but wished in my heart I could 
hear them all again. They bring back great memories of kind and wise people, I 
miss them deeply...
CheersRon McCoy
On 2019-01-13 10:33 p.m., Gordon Wilkinson via CoTyroneList wrote:

Hi Listers,As a kid in Belfast, I was intrigued by so many Irish place names 
starting in Bally... Those who know tell me it's derived from the Gaelic 'Baile 
na', meaning 'place of'. My mother would recite with a smile, the popular ditty 
of the time:If you weren't so Ballymena with your old Ballymoney, I'd buy a 
Ballycastle for my own Ballyholme.My mother was one for such sayings, so much 
so you'd be forgiven if you thought she'd kissed the Blarney, but I doubt she 
was ever that far south.
There must be lots of these folk expressions which have fallen into disuse and 
now sadly lost.
Gordon
-- 
_
Nereda & Gordon Wilkinson, Hyde Park, South Australia.
Web: www.ozemail.com.au/~neredon   Skype id: neredon
Emails: gordon.wilkin...@ozemail.com.aunereda.wilkin...@ozemail.com.au
___
CoTyroneList mailing list
CoTyroneList@cotyroneireland.com
http://mail.cotyroneireland.com/mailman/listinfo/
(_internal_name)s
___
CoTyroneList mailing list
CoTyroneList@cotyroneireland.com
http://mail.cotyroneireland.com/mailman/listinfo/
(_internal_name)s___
CoTyroneList mailing list
CoTyroneList@cotyroneireland.com
http://mail.cotyroneireland.com/mailman/listinfo/
(_internal_name)s

Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] Morrisons of Loughterush townland (kilskeery)

[Rick Smoll via CoTyroneList]

Thank you so much for going to the trouble!
 
And yes: If anyone out there has contact information for George Armstrong, 
please let me know.
 
Thanks again! 
 


Rick Smoll, AIC
Claims Adjuster 
Corpus Christi, TX
Mobile - (512) 619-3860
Fax - (512) 592-7966
 


 
 
-Original Message-
From: Len Swindley via CoTyroneList 
To: CoTyroneIreland.com Mailing List 
Cc: Len Swindley 
Sent: Mon, Jul 30, 2018 4:44 am
Subject: Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] Morrisons of Loughterush townland (kilskeery)



Rick,
 
Have gone back to my extraction, transcription and indexing of the 1826 
Kilskeery, Co. Tyrone tithe applotment 
bookhttp://www.cotyroneireland.com/tithe/tithe_Kilskeery1826.htm to confirm 
tithe payers in Loughterush and find it is correct; Edward Morrison is recorded 
in the townland in 1826. Just to be sure, I called in at a LDS FHC during my 
lunch break today to check the online digitised record and found that this is 
so.
 
I not that the extremely large Kilskeery baptismal register 
1767-1872http://www.igpweb.com/IGPArchives/ire/tyrone/churches/kilskeery-bap.htm
 was transcribed by the prolific George Armstrong in 2014. His excellent work 
is well known. Perhaps a lister has a contact email address for him to consult.
 
Regards,
Len Swindley, Melbourne, Australia
 
Sent from Mail for Windows 10
 

From: CoTyroneList  on behalf of Rick 
Smoll via CoTyroneList 
Sent: Monday, July 30, 2018 3:01:06 AM
To: cotyronelist@cotyroneireland.com
Cc: Rick Smoll
Subject: Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] Morrisons of Loughterush townland (kilskeery)
 

Hoping for some opinions here:
 
In the Kilskeery Parish 1826 Tithe Applotment listings, I find an Edward 
Morrison listed for Loughterush townland.
 
Using the Atavus search engine (Edward Morrison, Loughterush), I first see a 
record of a birth of Edward Morrison to Edward and Isabella Morrison in 1795. 
This is exciting.
 
Looking at the search results farther down the page, I find a series of births 
to an EdwardMorrow and wife Isabella (in Loughterush), ranging from 1781 to 
1789.Hmmm.
 
Going back to the Kilskeery Tithe Applotment listings, there are three Morrows 
listed (no Edwards), and none of them are in Loughterush.
 
I'm wondering: is it likely that there is a transcription error here?
 
I would greatly appreciate any opinions here.
 
Thanks!
 
 


Rick Smoll
 


 
 
-Original Message-
From: Len Swindley via CoTyroneList 
To: CoTyroneIreland.com Mailing List 
Cc: Len Swindley ; Elwyn Soutter 

Sent: Tue, Jul 24, 2018 5:55 am
Subject: Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] Morrisons of Loughterush townland (kilskeery)



Many thanks for your insights, Elwyn
 
Len Swindley
 
Sent from Mail for Windows 10
 

From: CoTyroneList  on behalf of 
elwyn soutter via CoTyroneList 
Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2018 8:32:58 PM
To: CoTyroneIreland.com Mailing List
Cc: elwyn soutter
Subject: Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] Morrisons of Loughterush townland (kilskeery)
 

Rick,



In the early 1600s, the English & Scottish undertakers (ie big landholders) 
were required to “Have ready in their houses at all times a convenient store of 
arms, wherewith they may furnish a competent number of men for their defence, 
which may be viewed and mustered every half year, according to the manner of 
England.”
 
We don’t really know to what extent each undertaker actually followed those 
instructions but where they did the local Muster Rolls could contain a list of 
every able bodied adult male in the given area. The complete absence of 
Morrisons in both Fermanagh & Tyrone (save for the 2 in Strabane) would suggest 
to me they hadn’t arrived in big numbers at that time. There’s 329 of them in 
the 1901 Fermanagh & Tyrone census. None in Fermanagh in 1630 and just 2 in 
Tyrone. There were a lot of undertakers estates in those 2 counties. If 
Morrisons were present in significant numbers then you would expect more to 
show in the Muster Rolls, even allowing for some estates that didn't keep 
records..
 
I agree with Les that we can’t say for certain, but my feeling is they hadn’t 
arrived in Kilskeery by 1630.
 
 
Elwyn



On Tue, Jul 24, 2018 at 11:14 AM, Len Swindley via 
CoTyroneList wrote:


Variations in spelling are of little consequence Rick as much was spelt 
phonetically in the past.
 

The Scots arrived in the North of Ireland in several waves dependent upon 
political and religious conditions in Scotland. Many settlers returned to their 
homeland as a result of the 1641 
Rebellionhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_Rebellion_of_1641 but returned 
once peace had been restored. Following the Relief of the Siege of Londonderry 
in 1689https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Derry and the defeat of the 
forces of James II great numbers of new settlers arrived.

 
My thoughts are that it will not be possible to ascertain the date of your 
forebears arrival in Kilskeery parish
Regards, Len Swindley
 
 
Sent from Mail for Windows 10
 

From: Rick Smoll 
Sent: Monday, July 23, 2018

Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] Morrisons of Loughterush townland (kilskeery)

[Rick Smoll via CoTyroneList]

Thanks for your insight Gordon! 
Will keep investigating to sort this out either way.
 


Rick Smoll, AIC
Claims Adjuster 
Corpus Christi, TX
Mobile - (512) 619-3860
Fax - (512) 592-7966
 


 
 
-Original Message-
From: Gordon Wilkinson via CoTyroneList 
To: Rick Smoll via CoTyroneList 
Cc: Gordon Wilkinson 
Sent: Sun, Jul 29, 2018 10:06 pm
Subject: Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] Morrisons of Loughterush townland (kilskeery)



Rick, I am a descendant of the Morrows from Armagh and unlikely  to include 
the Morrows you mention. In your search, I would posit  a typo(s) along the 
line somewhere. Many people at that time were  not literate so others wrote 
down what they thought they heard.  Irish accents and regional nuances 
would add to the confusion and  blur the pronunciation.  I've come across 
some weird  mis-spellings. Take for instance, McBirth for McBeth - which 
was  actually McBeath! then Harrow for O'Hara, also  
McCullough/McUllough/McCulough/McCulagh/McCullagh for the same  family, and 
several others. It makes authentication a little more  difficult, but one 
should always cross-check in any case. Be  careful in drawing conclusions, 
as families tended to cluster in  the same area and even name their 
offspring after a nearby  relative, so take care, even some birth dates may 
be speculative  as 1 January was too often used in place of the real date. 
Baptism  and Christening dates are generally reliable. Cheers, Gordon



On 30/07/2018 2:31 AM, Rick Smoll via  CoTyroneList wrote:



Hoping for some opinions here:

 

In the Kilskeery Parish 1826 Tithe Applotment listings, I  find an 
Edward Morrison listed for Loughterush townland. 

 

Using the Atavus search engine (Edward Morrison,  Loughterush), I first 
see a record of a birth of Edward  Morrison to Edward and Isabella 
Morrison in 1795. This is  exciting.

 

Looking at the search results farther down the page, I find  a series 
of births to an Edward Morrow  and wife Isabella (in Loughterush), 
ranging from 1781 to  1789.Hmmm.

 

Going back to the Kilskeery Tithe Applotment listings,  there are three 
Morrows listed (no Edwards), and none of them  are in Loughterush.

 

I'm wondering: is it likely that there is a transcription  error here?

 

I would greatly appreciate any opinions here.

 

Thanks!

 

 

  

  
Rick Smoll
  
 

  


 

 

-Original Message-
  From: Len Swindley via CoTyroneList  

  To: CoTyroneIreland.com Mailing List  

  Cc: Len Swindley ; Elwyn  Soutter 

  Sent: Tue, Jul 24, 2018 5:55 am
  Subject: Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] Morrisons of Loughterush  
townland (kilskeery)
  
  



Many thanks for your  insights, Elwyn

 

Len Swindley

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 
  

From: CoTyroneList
on behalf of elwyn soutter via CoTyroneList 

  Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2018 8:32:58 PM
  To: CoTyroneIreland.com Mailing List
  Cc: elwyn soutter
  Subject: Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] Morrisons of   
   Loughterush townland (kilskeery)
 
  
  

Rick,  

  
  

Inthe early 1600s, the English & Scottish   
 undertakers (ie big landholders) were required
to “Have ready in their houses at all times aconvenient 
store of arms, wherewith they mayfurnish a competent 
number of men for theirdefence, which may be viewed and 
mustered everyhalf year, according to the manner of 
England.”

 

Wedon’t really know to what extent each undertaker  
  actually followed those instructions but where
they did the local Muster Rolls could contain a
list of every able bodied adult male in thegiven area. 
The complete absence of Morrisons inboth Fermanagh & 
Tyrone (save f

Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] Morrisons of Loughterush townland (kilskeery)

[Rick Smoll via CoTyroneList]

nks again!







Sent from my Sprint Samsung Galaxy S7.




 Original message 
From: elwyn soutter via CoTyroneList 
Date: 7/21/18 6:17 AM (GMT-06:00) 
To: "CoTyroneIreland.com Mailing List" 
Cc: elwyn soutter 
Subject: Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] Morrisons of Loughterush townland (kilskeery)



Rick,


There aren’t any specific lists of people who settled in Ireland as part of the 
Plantation and other population movements in the 1600s. All we really know are 
the names of the big tenants (Undertakers) and where in Scotland they came 
from.  But there are no lists of the tenants that accompanied them.
 
However there are no Morrisons in the Kilskeery area in the 1630 Muster Rolls. 
That tends to suggest that your family may have arrived in the area post 1630, 
either direct from Scotland or perhaps having relocated from another part of 
Ulster, making it trickier to identify their origins.




Elwyn



On Mon, Jul 16, 2018 at 7:55 PM, Rick Smoll via 
CoTyroneList wrote:




Hello All, 
I was able to locate our ancestral farm in Loughterush (and actually visited it 
last year), which was in the family up until around 1970 when the last Morrison 
on it passed away. I have traced ancestors on the farm back to James Morrison 
(for whom I do not have a birth date, but was likely born around 1800). I have 
been assuming that our Morrisons originally came from Scotland, but do not know 
when.
 
Can anyone point me to records that might give specific information regarding 
individuals who came to this specific townland (as part of the British planter/ 
colonization that occurred in the 16th-18th centuries)?
 
Thanks!
 


Rick Smoll




___
CoTyroneList mailing list
CoTyroneList@cotyroneireland.com
http://mail.cotyroneireland.com/mailman/listinfo/cotyronelist_cotyroneireland.com








___
CoTyroneList mailing list
CoTyroneList@cotyroneireland.com
http://mail.cotyroneireland.com/mailman/listinfo/cotyronelist_cotyroneireland.com





___
CoTyroneList mailing list
CoTyroneList@cotyroneireland.com
http://mail.cotyroneireland.com/mailman/listinfo/cotyronelist_cotyroneireland.com

___
CoTyroneList mailing list
CoTyroneList@cotyroneireland.com
http://mail.cotyroneireland.com/mailman/listinfo/cotyronelist_cotyroneireland.com

[CoTyroneMailingList] Morrisons of Loughterush townland (kilskeery)

[Rick Smoll via CoTyroneList]

Hello All, 
I was able to locate our ancestral farm in Loughterush (and actually visited it 
last year), which was in the family up until around 1970 when the last Morrison 
on it passed away. I have traced ancestors on the farm back to James Morrison 
(for whom I do not have a birth date, but was likely born around 1800). I have 
been assuming that our Morrisons originally came from Scotland, but do not know 
when.
 
Can anyone point me to records that might give specific information regarding 
individuals who came to this specific townland (as part of the British planter/ 
colonization that occurred in the 16th-18th centuries)?
 
Thanks!
 


Rick Smoll



___
CoTyroneList mailing list
CoTyroneList@cotyroneireland.com
http://mail.cotyroneireland.com/mailman/listinfo/cotyronelist_cotyroneireland.com