Re: Fwd: Re: Simple RF Weapon Can Fry PC Circuits
At 12:15 AM 5/8/01 -0500, Harmon Seaver wrote: So probably a magnatron out of a 1500watt microwave (1-2ghz) in an aluminum tube (barrel) to focus the [see notes at bottom] microwaves would be sufficiceint? Or do we need to boost power more than this? Can magnatrons be run in series? 8-) It seems a horn is used to couple the oscillator to the aether for broadcast, and a waveguide (a rectangular box with certain dimensions) used to move the beam. A horn-fed dish could be used for beam shaping, including focussing the beam at some fixed distance. 'Glubco Labs' used to have a section on waveguides, magnetrons, and melting plastic, but that isn't there any more; the fellow probably graduated. I've seen 3000 watt 12VDC-110VAC inverters for cars being sold. Couple that with 500 watt tubes from some $50 ovens, you can outfit each corner of your car. Label the power settings: toast phone, toast engine, headache, cataract, exploding head ... 1. Cooking microwaves are 2.45 Ghz because the FCC lets you go crazy there. 2. Look up WG16 for waveguide info.
RE: Fwd: Re: Simple RF Weapon Can Fry PC Circuits
David Honig[SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] At 12:15 AM 5/8/01 -0500, Harmon Seaver wrote: So probably a magnatron out of a 1500watt microwave (1-2ghz) in an aluminum tube (barrel) to focus the [see notes at bottom] microwaves would be sufficiceint? Or do we need to boost power more than this? Can magnatrons be run in series? 8-) It seems a horn is used to couple the oscillator to the aether for broadcast, and a waveguide (a rectangular box with certain dimensions) used to move the beam. A horn-fed dish could be used for beam shaping, including focussing the beam at some fixed distance. 'Glubco Labs' used to have a section on waveguides, magnetrons, and melting plastic, but that isn't there any more; the fellow probably graduated. I've seen 3000 watt 12VDC-110VAC inverters for cars being sold. Couple that with 500 watt tubes from some $50 ovens, you can outfit each corner of your car. Label the power settings: toast phone, toast engine, headache, cataract, exploding head Another (highly frowned upon) use for this type of device is to toast police speed radars. Apparently not to difficult to repair, though. Peter Trei
RE: Fwd: Re: Simple RF Weapon Can Fry PC Circuits
I've seen 3000 watt 12VDC-110VAC inverters for cars being sold. Couple that with 500 watt tubes from some $50 ovens, you can outfit each corner of your car. Another (highly frowned upon) use for this type of device is to toast police speed radars. Apparently not to difficult to repair, though. Peter Trei Damage is probably limited to the front end - isn't it a loop of wire in the cavity and a mixer diode LO etc? Probably a $20 unit held in by two screws. EW does not always consist of destroying the enemy device. It may be more effective to simply cause the enemy to question the reliability of his device and head back to the nest^H^H^H^Hshop to get it checked. Much of your front cross section is your radiator and license plate. Doppler speed radars + aluminized cone tweeters + audio noise source = ? What % of the xsection nees to be fuzzy to screw the measurement? Then there's the more effective and safer overall technique of staying with traffic... Mike
Re: Fwd: Re: Simple RF Weapon Can Fry PC Circuits
[EMAIL PROTECTED][SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] I've seen 3000 watt 12VDC-110VAC inverters for cars being sold. Couple that with 500 watt tubes from some $50 ovens, you can outfit each corner of your car. Another (highly frowned upon) use for this type of device is to toast police speed radars. Apparently not to difficult to repair, though. Peter Trei Damage is probably limited to the front end - isn't it a loop of wire in the cavity and a mixer diode LO etc? Probably a $20 unit held in by two screws. EW does not always consist of destroying the enemy device. It may be more effective to simply cause the enemy to question the reliability of his device and head back to the nest^H^H^H^Hshop to get it checked. Much of your front cross section is your radiator and license plate. Doppler speed radars + aluminized cone tweeters + audio noise source = ? What % of the xsection nees to be fuzzy to screw the measurement? Then there's the more effective and safer overall technique of staying with traffic... Mike One gizmo I dreamed up (but have not implemented) is to build a device which resembles a windspeed guage, but with cube-corner reflectors instead of cups. If this is placed in the radar beam while rotating in the correct direction (even the vehicles wind of passage could do this), from the front it would register a strong reflection which is moving much slower than the device as a whole. For plausible deniability, you could hook it up to a meter and *call* *it* a wind guage. Similarly, appropriately sculpted hubcaps could mess with the radar guns tiny mind. Note that these devices are 100% passive, which would avoid FCC problems (though not neccesarily LEA ones). Peter
RE: Fwd: Re: Simple RF Weapon Can Fry PC Circuits
Sandy Sandfort[SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] wrote Peter Trei wrote, One gizmo I dreamed up...resembles a windspeed guage, but with cube-corner reflectors instead of cups... I thought up a similar but stealthier version some time back. The corner cuts would be on bars that rotate about a horizontal axis. The whole assembly would be inside a visual opaque (but radar transparent) cylinder on the front bumper of the car. It could be made to look like a water container or heavy-duty bumper or whatever. Either the receding or advancing portion of the bar's rotation could be behind a radar opaque barrier (depending on whether you'd like to subtract or add--ridiculously--to your true speed). Yeah, I figured out that one too - the main goals are making it less obvious, and to increase the area which reflects back at the source. A system for defeating laser speed guns could involve mounting a high-wattage IR spotlight beside your plate, to dazzle the receptor in the gun. For automated photolasers, mount a slave flash beside your plate. When the camera goes off, its flash will trigger yours, again dazzling the camera. [Note to snoops - I have never done any of these. Speculation (without action) is still a Constitutional right, right?] Peter
RE: Fwd: Re: Simple RF Weapon Can Fry PC Circuits
There's a lot of gadgets like this. Try finding an independent review (ie, from someone who is not selling them) which claims they work well. My understanding is that for a straight-on encounter, the non-fraudulent ones (many are $200 boxes empty except for a couple LEDs) can reduce the radar guns effective range, so you have time to slow down. That's all. Peter Declan McCullagh[SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Tue, May 08, 2001 at 12:48:04PM -0400, Trei, Peter wrote: Note that these devices are 100% passive, which would avoid FCC problems (though not neccesarily LEA ones). See also: http://www.interdiscountmall.com/interdiscountmall/phazradjam.html -Declan
Re: Fwd: Re: Simple RF Weapon Can Fry PC Circuits
On Tue, May 08, 2001 at 12:48:04PM -0400, Trei, Peter wrote: Note that these devices are 100% passive, which would avoid FCC problems (though not neccesarily LEA ones). See also: http://www.interdiscountmall.com/interdiscountmall/phazradjam.html -Declan
RE: RE: Fwd: Re: Simple RF Weapon Can Fry PC Circuits
[EMAIL PROTECTED][SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] I've seen 3000 watt 12VDC-110VAC inverters for cars being sold. Couple that with 500 watt tubes from some $50 ovens, you can outfit each corner of your car. Another (highly frowned upon) use for this type of device is to toast police speed radars. Apparently not to difficult to repair, though. Peter Trei Damage is probably limited to the front end - isn't it a loop of wire in the cavity and a mixer diode LO etc? Probably a $20 unit held in by two screws. EW does not always consist of destroying the enemy device. It may be more effective to simply cause the enemy to question the reliability of his device and head back to the nest^H^H^H^Hshop to get it checked. Much of your front cross section is your radiator and license plate. Doppler speed radars + aluminized cone tweeters + audio noise source = ? What % of the xsection nees to be fuzzy to screw the measurement? Then there's the more effective and safer overall technique of staying with traffic... Mike One gizmo I dreamed up (but have not implemented) is to build a device which resembles a windspeed guage, but with cube-corner reflectors instead of cups. If this is placed in the radar beam while rotating in the correct direction (even the vehicles wind of passage could do this), from the front it would register a strong reflection which is moving much slower than the device as a whole. For plausible deniability, you could hook it up to a meter and *call* *it* a wind guage. Similarly, appropriately sculpted hubcaps could mess with the radar guns tiny mind. Note that these devices are 100% passive, which would avoid FCC problems (though not neccesarily LEA ones). Peter
RE: Fwd: Re: Simple RF Weapon Can Fry PC Circuits
Peter Trei wrote, One gizmo I dreamed up...resembles a windspeed guage, but with cube-corner reflectors instead of cups... I thought up a similar but stealthier version some time back. The corner cuts would be on bars that rotate about a horizontal axis. The whole assembly would be inside a visual opaque (but radar transparent) cylinder on the front bumper of the car. It could be made to look like a water container or heavy-duty bumper or whatever. Either the receding or advancing portion of the bar's rotation could be behind a radar opaque barrier (depending on whether you'd like to subtract or add--ridiculously--to your true speed). In either case, most modern radar would be foiled by any difference in recorded speed since most of them are set to indicate a speed only when they measure several (3-5) consistent reading within a short time span (something 1 second). I've read that radar cannot measure the speed of propeller driven aircraft because the radar chokes on the various measurements the spinning propellers return. Similarly, appropriately sculpted hubcaps could mess with the radar guns tiny mind. Yup. The corner-cut principle could address another bad habit of law enforcement, searchlight equipped helicopters. While it's against the law in California (and other states, I would suspect) to aim a spotlight (or even a small laser device) at an aircraft, putting several mirrored corner-cut reflectors at strategic points around your home is probably okay. If the eyes in the sky don't like the bright reflection, they can just turn their damned light off. S a n d y
Re: Fwd: Re: Simple RF Weapon Can Fry PC Circuits
At 10:04 PM 5/6/01 -1000, Reese wrote: At 07:05 PM 5/6/01, Steve Schear wrote: For a one-stop shopping site see http://www.rfterrorism.com One of the links towards the top of that page, Demonstration of RF weapon on a car. Watch an electronic nervous breakdown occur. (1836 K) A car is a hardened target ---largely shielded, built to coexist with impulsive EMI from the ignition system, etc. When they go to fiber optic busses instead of copper cables, they'll get more resistant (modulo the resistance of the i/f modules). Something like a bunch of personal radios or a TV van would be more vulnerable. And of course kompyuters..
RE: Fwd: Re: Simple RF Weapon Can Fry PC Circuits
Making a car with electronic ignition stutter or stall is *old* *news* to folk in the Ham Radio field. If they really had to get within 5 feet, their car killer is really, really feeble. Peter Trei -- From: David Honig[SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] At 10:04 PM 5/6/01 -1000, Reese wrote: At 07:05 PM 5/6/01, Steve Schear wrote: For a one-stop shopping site see http://www.rfterrorism.com One of the links towards the top of that page, Demonstration of RF weapon on a car. Watch an electronic nervous breakdown occur. (1836 K) A car is a hardened target ---largely shielded, built to coexist with impulsive EMI from the ignition system, etc. When they go to fiber optic busses instead of copper cables, they'll get more resistant (modulo the resistance of the i/f modules). Something like a bunch of personal radios or a TV van would be more vulnerable. And of course kompyuters..
RE: Fwd: Re: Simple RF Weapon Can Fry PC Circuits
David Honig wrote: A car is a hardened target ---largely shielded...Something like a bunch of personal radios or a TV van would be more vulnerable. What I'm waiting for is the portable, concealable boom box killer. It's time to take back the streets. S a n d y
RE: Fwd: Re: Simple RF Weapon Can Fry PC Circuits
Making a car with electronic ignition stutter or stall is *old* *news* to folk in the Ham Radio field. If they really had to get within 5 feet, their car killer is really, really feeble. Peter Trei -- From: David Honig[SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] At 10:04 PM 5/6/01 -1000, Reese wrote: At 07:05 PM 5/6/01, Steve Schear wrote: For a one-stop shopping site see http://www.rfterrorism.com One of the links towards the top of that page, Demonstration of RF weapon on a car. Watch an electronic nervous breakdown occur. (1836 K) A car is a hardened target ---largely shielded, built to coexist with impulsive EMI from the ignition system, etc. When they go to fiber optic busses instead of copper cables, they'll get more resistant (modulo the resistance of the i/f modules). Something like a bunch of personal radios or a TV van would be more vulnerable. And of course kompyuters..
RE: Fwd: Re: Simple RF Weapon Can Fry PC Circuits
At 10:19 AM 5/7/01 -0700, Sandy Sandfort wrote: David Honig wrote: A car is a hardened target ---largely shielded...Something like a bunch of personal radios or a TV van would be more vulnerable. What I'm waiting for is the portable, concealable boom box killer. It's time to take back the streets. I should think a magnetron would take out the device, though you might need a waveguide to toast the perp. By personal radio I meant cell phone or police radio, though a ghetto blaster also has a sensitive input stage.
Re: Fwd: Re: Simple RF Weapon Can Fry PC Circuits
On Mon, May 07, 2001 at 08:38:49PM -0700, David Honig wrote: At 01:08 PM 5/7/01 -0400, Trei, Peter wrote: Making a car with electronic ignition stutter or stall is *old* *news* to folk in the Ham Radio field. If they really had to get within 5 feet, their car killer is really, really feeble. Peter Trei This was probably with the first generations of electronic ignition (etc) systems, no? You don't hear of this any more. A lot of this improvement came about because people began installing transmit capable radios in their cars in considerable numbers (beyond just a few eccentric hams) and discovered that the radios sometimes made the car stall or sputter when they were keyed. So the manufactuers came under pressure to clean up their act and RFI proof the vehicle electronics before too many law suits resulted from irate customers whose car stalled out dangerously in traffic due to RFI from a nearby transmitter. And such hardening is not that expensive if done by competant EMI specialists as part of the initial design - thus it really wasn't cost effective to leave it out - particularly if your vehicle line grew a reputation of having such problems and fleet sales to customers with radios installed dropped precipitously. How effective typical vehicle hardening is against HPM pulses in the gigahertz range at whopping power densities is less clear as typical installed two way radio gear is HF to UHF at at most rather modest power levels. There hasn't been a lot of need to protect vehicles from very high power microwave energy which can pass through smaller holes and be coupled into shorter length conductors - so there is likely still considerable succeptablity if the flux density of the energy is great enough. -- Dave Emery N1PRE, [EMAIL PROTECTED] DIE Consulting, Weston, Mass. PGP fingerprint = 2047/4D7B08D1 DE 6E E1 CC 1F 1D 96 E2 5D 27 BD B0 24 88 C3 18
Re: Fwd: Re: Simple RF Weapon Can Fry PC Circuits
So probably a magnatron out of a 1500watt microwave (1-2ghz) in an aluminum tube (barrel) to focus the microwaves would be sufficiceint? Or do we need to boost power more than this? Can magnatrons be run in series? 8-) -- Harmon Seaver, MLIS CyberShamanix Work 920-203-9633 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Home 920-233-5820 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
