Re: [Crm-sig] New CRMsci e-vote: label for S23
Hello, I am working on a model of funerary anthropology and this precision in the terminology of S23 goes perfectly in the direction of my reflections. YES Olivier De: "Christian-Emil Smith Ore via Crm-sig" À: "crm-sig" Envoyé: Dimanche 5 Mars 2023 09:20:26 Objet: Re: [Crm-sig] New CRMsci e-vote: label for S23 Yes A comment : In seafare a ship's position at a given time was often calculated on the basis of the last observation of the latitude and longitude by the chronometer and sextant and then the direction and speed (velocity vector) during the elapsed time since the observation, see some of the examples of S23 and its properties. This method can also be used to determine the position of the vessel before the observation. Best, Christian-Emil From: Crm-sig on behalf of Martin Doerr via Crm-sig Sent: 04 March 2023 21:04 To: crm-sig@ics.forth.gr Subject: Re: [Crm-sig] New CRMsci e-vote: label for S23 I vote YES, change. The point is that S23 describes implicitly the simultaneous measurements of the contributing parameters, typically two or three, necessary for a position determination and the resulting position. The contributing measurements may be specified explicitly as parts of it. But the resulting position is that at the time of observation as the observed values suggest, and not any calculation of a position of something at a different time and place. If the resulting position is calculated at a bit later time exclusively from the observed values, is not relevant. Modern GIS systems do not give details, but also historical records often do not. E.g. "The position measured by Alexander von Humboldt for the Plaza Mayor in Cumaná, Sucre, Venezuela 1799-1800AD (E53) place is defined by 10°27'52"N 66°30'02"W (Example for P168)." Humboldt refers to the measurement only like that "in this night I could observe some stars to determine the position of..." and the position. He mentions how he was maintaining his clock, one of the best of his time. Best, Martin On 3/4/2023 8:13 PM, Athanasios Velios via Crm-sig wrote: Dear all, Many thanks to those of you who voted for the CRMsci examples in the last e-vote which will be added to the document. In the process of discussing these examples with several of you, there was a strong view that the current label of S23 Position Measurement is confusing. I appreciate that the role of labels is to reminder us of the scope note and in general we avoid arguing too much about them. I would not normally call for an e-vote on a label, but this is the first time that S23 is formalised in a stable CRMsci version so it is worth getting it right so that we do not have to change it. The proposal is to change the label, from: S23 Position Measurement to: S23 Position Determination S23 is not a measurement in the sense of S21. Including the word "measurement" in the label will confuse people referring to this class. Please vote YES if you agree with this change. Please vote NO if you disagree giving some rationale. If we go ahead with this change, it will mean that some editorial changes are necessary in other parts of the document for consistency which Athina and I are happy to do. Many thanks for your patience with this version of CRMsci. We are very nearly there. All the best, Thanasis ___ Crm-sig mailing list [ mailto:Crm-sig@ics.forth.gr | Crm-sig@ics.forth.gr ] [ http://lists.ics.forth.gr/mailman/listinfo/crm-sig | http://lists.ics.forth.gr/mailman/listinfo/crm-sig ] -- Dr. Martin Doerr Honorary Head of the Center for Cultural Informatics Information Systems Laboratory Institute of Computer Science Foundation for Research and Technology - Hellas (FORTH) N.Plastira 100, Vassilika Vouton, GR70013 Heraklion,Crete,Greece Vox:+30(2810)391625 Email: [ mailto:mar...@ics.forth.gr | mar...@ics.forth.gr ] Web-site: [ http://www.ics.forth.gr/isl | http://www.ics.forth.gr/isl ] ___ Crm-sig mailing list Crm-sig@ics.forth.gr http://lists.ics.forth.gr/mailman/listinfo/crm-sig ___ Crm-sig mailing list Crm-sig@ics.forth.gr http://lists.ics.forth.gr/mailman/listinfo/crm-sig
Re: [Crm-sig] New CRMsci e-vote: label for S23
Yes A comment : In seafare a ship's position at a given time was often calculated on the basis of the last observation of the latitude and longitude by the chronometer and sextant and then the direction and speed (velocity vector) during the elapsed time since the observation, see some of the examples of S23 and its properties. This method can also be used to determine the position of the vessel before the observation. Best, Christian-Emil From: Crm-sig on behalf of Martin Doerr via Crm-sig Sent: 04 March 2023 21:04 To: crm-sig@ics.forth.gr Subject: Re: [Crm-sig] New CRMsci e-vote: label for S23 I vote YES, change. The point is that S23 describes implicitly the simultaneous measurements of the contributing parameters, typically two or three, necessary for a position determination and the resulting position. The contributing measurements may be specified explicitly as parts of it. But the resulting position is that at the time of observation as the observed values suggest, and not any calculation of a position of something at a different time and place. If the resulting position is calculated at a bit later time exclusively from the observed values, is not relevant. Modern GIS systems do not give details, but also historical records often do not. E.g. "The position measured by Alexander von Humboldt for the Plaza Mayor in Cumaná, Sucre, Venezuela 1799-1800AD (E53) place is defined by 10°27'52"N 66°30'02"W (Example for P168)." Humboldt refers to the measurement only like that "in this night I could observe some stars to determine the position of..." and the position. He mentions how he was maintaining his clock, one of the best of his time. Best, Martin On 3/4/2023 8:13 PM, Athanasios Velios via Crm-sig wrote: Dear all, Many thanks to those of you who voted for the CRMsci examples in the last e-vote which will be added to the document. In the process of discussing these examples with several of you, there was a strong view that the current label of S23 Position Measurement is confusing. I appreciate that the role of labels is to reminder us of the scope note and in general we avoid arguing too much about them. I would not normally call for an e-vote on a label, but this is the first time that S23 is formalised in a stable CRMsci version so it is worth getting it right so that we do not have to change it. The proposal is to change the label, from: S23 Position Measurement to: S23 Position Determination S23 is not a measurement in the sense of S21. Including the word "measurement" in the label will confuse people referring to this class. Please vote YES if you agree with this change. Please vote NO if you disagree giving some rationale. If we go ahead with this change, it will mean that some editorial changes are necessary in other parts of the document for consistency which Athina and I are happy to do. Many thanks for your patience with this version of CRMsci. We are very nearly there. All the best, Thanasis ___ Crm-sig mailing list Crm-sig@ics.forth.gr<mailto:Crm-sig@ics.forth.gr> http://lists.ics.forth.gr/mailman/listinfo/crm-sig -- Dr. Martin Doerr Honorary Head of the Center for Cultural Informatics Information Systems Laboratory Institute of Computer Science Foundation for Research and Technology - Hellas (FORTH) N.Plastira 100, Vassilika Vouton, GR70013 Heraklion,Crete,Greece Vox:+30(2810)391625 Email: mar...@ics.forth.gr<mailto:mar...@ics.forth.gr> Web-site: http://www.ics.forth.gr/isl ___ Crm-sig mailing list Crm-sig@ics.forth.gr http://lists.ics.forth.gr/mailman/listinfo/crm-sig
Re: [Crm-sig] New CRMsci e-vote: label for S23
I vote YES, change. The point is that S23 describes implicitly the simultaneous measurements of the contributing parameters, typically two or three, necessary for a position determination and the resulting position. The contributing measurements may be specified explicitly as parts of it. But the resulting position is that at the time of observation *as *the observed values suggest, and *not any *calculation of a position of something at a different time and place. If the resulting position is calculated at a bit later time exclusively from the observed values, is not relevant. Modern GIS systems do not give details, but also historical records often do not. E.g. "The position measured by Alexander von Humboldt for the Plaza Mayor in Cumaná, Sucre, Venezuela 1799-1800AD (E53) place is defined by 10°27'52"N 66°30'02"W (Example for P168)." Humboldt refers to the measurement only like that "in this night I could observe some stars to determine the position of..." and the position. He mentions how he was maintaining his clock, one of the best of his time. Best, Martin On 3/4/2023 8:13 PM, Athanasios Velios via Crm-sig wrote: Dear all, Many thanks to those of you who voted for the CRMsci examples in the last e-vote which will be added to the document. In the process of discussing these examples with several of you, there was a strong view that the current label of S23 Position Measurement is confusing. I appreciate that the role of labels is to reminder us of the scope note and in general we avoid arguing too much about them. I would not normally call for an e-vote on a label, but this is the first time that S23 is formalised in a stable CRMsci version so it is worth getting it right so that we do not have to change it. The proposal is to change the label, from: S23 Position Measurement to: S23 Position Determination S23 is not a measurement in the sense of S21. Including the word "measurement" in the label will confuse people referring to this class. Please vote YES if you agree with this change. Please vote NO if you disagree giving some rationale. If we go ahead with this change, it will mean that some editorial changes are necessary in other parts of the document for consistency which Athina and I are happy to do. Many thanks for your patience with this version of CRMsci. We are very nearly there. All the best, Thanasis ___ Crm-sig mailing list Crm-sig@ics.forth.gr http://lists.ics.forth.gr/mailman/listinfo/crm-sig -- Dr. Martin Doerr Honorary Head of the Center for Cultural Informatics Information Systems Laboratory Institute of Computer Science Foundation for Research and Technology - Hellas (FORTH) N.Plastira 100, Vassilika Vouton, GR70013 Heraklion,Crete,Greece Vox:+30(2810)391625 Email:mar...@ics.forth.gr Web-site:http://www.ics.forth.gr/isl ___ Crm-sig mailing list Crm-sig@ics.forth.gr http://lists.ics.forth.gr/mailman/listinfo/crm-sig
