Re: [crossfire] Game play thoughts, ideas, ramblings :)

[Mark Wedel]

 In general, I agree with much of what you say, and will only discuss points where 
I have something to add or differ.  I reference different versions of D here, 
partly because that is what the game is seemingly based on, but also because 
looking at what other have done may be useful

Scattered content: I agree with this, and will note that while information on 
some maps may have hints provided elsewhere, then it becomes the question of 
'How was I suppose to know I had to talk to X to find out about this?'  And 
there is something of a fine line between having enough hints vs so many that 
it becomes over advertised.  I guess other games make this a little easier by 
making NPCs that have something useful to say be highlight or something.

Random maps, from my recollection, really were meant as something of a filler, 
as well as ways to have some variety - the final map may be set up, but the 
path to get there varies.  But really deep random maps more seem to be a way to 
get lots of items.

Game rules/races/classes - agree here, some attempts were made in the past in the past 
to add differentiation, but one problem is that the game is largely hack and slash, and 
that mage ends up behaving a lot like a fighter in order to regain sp.  I think some 
thought would have to be given on what changes may be necessary to let someone play as 
a pure spellcaster.  That concept exists in D because they are part of a party.  
In crossfire, where they may be on their own, how does that exist?  And how to balance 
all of this.  One thing D did was give spellcasters OK damage cantrips that 
they can cast at well - maybe something like a 0 sp magic bullet spell.

The attribute system also follows the D where the bonus from stats gets a lot better 
as they go up (at 24 -> 25 is a lot bigger bonus than a 14->15).  D basically 
changed that to a linear system - in such a system, letting characters raise stats now and 
again as they level (and make weapons that improve stats) less an issue.

Items: Some games behave as crossfire (every item that the monster had drops) 
and other only drop a subset.  One thing that makes crossfire worse is that 
there are so many variation, and a lot more things are killed.  So you don't 
get a stack of 10 short swords from killing 10 goblins, you get 5 normal ones, 
2 -1, 1 +1, a few different 'shortsword of X' where X is different, etc.

Spells: Agree there are too many.  Being able to do something like 'cast 
fireball of radius X' would be one way to reduce the number of spells, as 
small/medium/large variations go away.  X would depend on level of the caster, 
and perhaps keep gong up, so at level 100, you could cast massive fireballs.  
Maybe as balance, if radius is large, damage goes down, but how to exactly 
balance is hard.

One of the elder scrolls games allowed one to make custom spells (I'm think 3- 
morrowind), and that did not show up in subsequent games.  But I quickly 
learned how you min/max spell creation, so I sort of think adding it to 
crossfire would create a new set of balancing headaches.

The fact that there are a huge number of spells is what led me to create 
different spellcasting schools - it just seemed a bit over powered that one 
would get access to hundreds of spells (this sort of relates to the skills).

Going to stricter classes above, if one made it not possible to learn new 
spellcasting skills, one could differentiate classes some by each having a 
unique spellcasting skill, and the spells for each skill is different (there 
would be some overlap, but not every one would have fireball).  This could 
allow for more balance spellcasting classes, which at the same time are 
different.

Skills could probably be revisited - some may not be interesting enough to 
really warrant keeping around - some were also made when character level == 
effective level for skills, so how to level them was not a concern, but 
leveling them where you have to earn experience in the skill is a problem.

Resistances & attacktypes: There probably are too many.  And some are more 
effect than damage.
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[crossfire] Game play thoughts, ideas, ramblings :)

[Nicolas Weeger]

Hello.


Been thinking of the game play lately, so I figured I'd share some ideas, 
ramblings, thoughts about that :)

I'm not saying I'll change the game to match what I say in this mail, I merely 
want to share ideas & such to see what other opinions exist :) I'm not either 
saying I'll fight against patches going in another direction :)


Everything reflects my opinions and tastes, even if I write it as an 
affirmation 
for simplicity, and nothing is an absolute truth of course :p And I may be 
wrong or forget things, feel free to correct :)

And I of course may be influenced by other games, hack & slash ones, quite 
possibly :)



First and foremost, CF is a keyboard-based game. Yes it's possible to use the 
mouse for some things, but mostly the game uses the keyboard.

Therefore it is not a point-and-click, and I for one don't want CF to become 
one - keyboard is fine.


In the same way, the game is tile-based, not a discrete grid.


About the world, it's mostly fantasy-based. There are hints about mechanical-
like things (in Euthville notably), and maybe we could add some items or maps 
in this taste, but I'd rather not be going into a real cyberpunk universe, or 
a science-fiction one. So magic, monsters, gods, maybe some mechanical, but no 
spaceships, no planes, or such :)



There is much content, scattered in the world. Many maps have no hints so one 
has to just wander around to find'em, others are linked to quests or texts or 
such.

I'm not for a guide-based game where every & all maps have hints pointing to 
their existence, having to move around to explore is fine, but maybe right now 
there aren't enough hints or such...


Random maps aren't that interesting. They are mostly experience source, or a 
filler between handmade maps. Maybe we could try to generate dungeons with eg a 
final boss, some special reward, and reduce "filler" maps (like Valriel's or 
Gorokh's temples which have like 100 levels...).

And random maps look too similar, too small for many monsters...



Currently, the game is based on D rules, with AC/WC, classes, races, and 
such. With our current implementation, characters can't really be customized, 
they all tend to be similar. Classes don't really have much sense, except the 
monk with meditation. Races have slightly more meaning, with restrictions on 
weapons or armour or things like that.

I think I would prefer having more distinct playing styles, so not jack-of-
all-traces characters but ones with real distinctions, maybe special skills 
for some classes or races, real skills to kill monsters that make a difference 
in how we play.

One consequence of the D rules is that attribute points don't really matter 
soon after starting playing - once you reach 25+ in all stats (except cha), 
not much else to do... I'm not sure whether I like this system or if I prefer 
gaining points for each level that you can position on stats like you want (eg 
gain 2 points per level that you can inject in str or dex or wis). This would 
allow customizing the character more. But this means we have to figure how 
those points affect eg damage, ac/wc, and such.



About items, I think there are w too many. Junk given by monsters 
is just too much, it takes a while to sort items. Yes it makes for more 
realistic stuff (why would only 1 goblin on 10 have a sword?), but it becomes 
quite a chore to sort.

I was thinking about the possibility of giving treasure items a chance to be 
god-given. Eg a goblin would have a sword and a shield, each having a 70% 
chance of being god-given. Thus the goblin would be equipped to fight, but 
wouldn't drop so much junk. Or the item would break and become a dust pile, 
something like that.


I like the idea of being able to customize weapons or armour (maybe other 
items?), with scrolls or spells, but that needs to be balanced to not push 
towards the same customization.

Ha, and I'd really love fun items to change the game play - a sword that 
randomly bites you or cast a spell? A powerful armor that randomly teleports 
you a few cases away? An amulet that sucks your sp to give fire resist?



About spells, I think there are too many, and many useless. Why the need to 
have "small fireball", "medium fireball", and "large fireball"? Why not having 
it 
scale better, or the medium replacing the small and such? Or allowing the 
player to balance the spell's effects between duration, range, damage?

Some spells like poison cloud don't seem really useful...

Some skills are way too slow to level. Summoning is quite bad, summoned 
monsters are just too weak. They definitely need a big boost, to make it more 
interesting.


Resistances are too numerous, and messy - 50% for acid is enough to protect 
your items, but eg confusion at 70% may lead to being confused. So some 
rethinking may be in order.




About character leveling, I think the "speed to level" really depends on the 
"endgame" we wish to have. Is the aim of the game to become a